Who are you more optimistic about?
Wisconsinites, Brewers or Packers?
Illinoisans, Cubs or Bears?
Brewers although that's not saying much. I think the Packers take a step back, Love's progress stalls, and Lafleur and Gutey's futures are in question.
I would say Brewers just because we are so far into the season this doesn't seem like a fluke. But I'm not exactly planning a World Series parade.
Quote from: tower912 on August 23, 2025, 07:06:58 AMWho are you more optimistic about?
Wisconsinites, Brewers or Packers?
Illinoisans, Cubs or Bears?
Brewers. Packers are dumb and soft
Brewers. They're led by adults.
MLF is a child who is in way over his head. Gutey by and large has pulled the right levers but MLF's lack of discipline will continue to haunt GB.
Cubs >>>>>>>>>>>> bears
Brewers >= Packers
I really believe that they overpaid Love based on a half season of good performance. It'll probably come back to bite them. I hope im incorrect.
I think Love is going to progress this year, but I do think they've stagnated under LaFleur and the lack of discipline is a huge concern.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on August 23, 2025, 09:00:00 PMCubs >>>>>>>>>>>> bears
Brewers >= Packers
I really believe that they overpaid Love based on a half season of good performance. It'll probably come back to bite them. I hope im incorrect.
Love's contract is OK. If they want a ln entire reset they can get out after next year when they'll be going rock bottom at the position anyway.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on August 23, 2025, 09:00:00 PMCubs >>>>>>>>>>>> bears
Brewers >= Packers
I really believe that they overpaid Love based on a half season of good performance. It'll probably come back to bite them. I hope im incorrect.
The contract is fine. It's never the final number of years to look at, especially at QB. If anything, he should be motivated to start playing for the next contract.
That said, he has a lot of dumb teammates who play dumb and a coaching staff incapable of fixing the dumb. That mean Love can't make some of the dumb throws he tends to make against good teams.
I am optimistic that the Bears will suck this year.
Quote from: BM1090 on August 23, 2025, 11:16:12 PMI think Love is going to progress this year, but I do think they've stagnated under LaFleur and the lack of discipline is a huge concern.
This. Not much would surprise me for the Packers this year. Could easily see 12-5 and 8-9
No Minnesota gut check?
I am confident the Vikings will show the same movie they've run for 65 seasons.
I don't think the bears will make the playoffs but I think they'll be way more watchable than years past, whatever that means.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on August 24, 2025, 07:13:38 PMI don't think the bears will make the playoffs but I think they'll be way more watchable than years past, whatever that means.
They have an offensive coach with a mindset and an offensive identity to go with above average talent on that side of the ball for the first time in awhile, so that's exciting alone.
And, not to be morbid, but I have sort of a twisted optimism/interest in the first year post-Virginia McCaskey, overall vibe switch.
I'm optimistic just reading these predictions that most Packers fans realize how bad MLF is. The national media seems to gloss over a lot of their issues and lump him in with the Sean McVay Boy Wonder Crowd.
Glad to see people hear recognize his warts. Being the most penalized team year after year is an issue. And now this season he is doing performative antiics like making guys run laps. He's in so far over his head.
It's just too bad that Murphy neutered the GM's power and Gutey can't move on from MLF.
Quote from: The Lens on August 25, 2025, 09:21:29 AMI'm optimistic just reading these predictions that most Packers fans realize how bad MLF is. The national media seems to gloss over a lot of their issues and lump him in with the Sean McVay Boy Wonder Crowd.
Glad to see people hear recognize his warts. Being the most penalized team year after year is an issue. And now this season he is doing performative antiics like making guys run laps. He's in so far over his head.
It's just too bad that Murphy neutered the GM's power and Gutey can't move on from MLF.
How do you know Gutey would want to move on? Also there is a new President in place so we will see.
Quote from: The Sultan on August 25, 2025, 09:25:43 AMHow do you know Gutey would want to move on? Also there is a new President in place so we will see.
Gutey and MLF reportedly hate each other
Quote from: The Lens on August 25, 2025, 09:39:05 AMGutey and MLF reportedly hate each other
I am not saying you're wrong, but I have never heard that.
I think MLF gets a lot of praise for how he designs an offense, which he seems good at.
I'm worried that we seem to constantly make the same mistakes and he seems slow to move on from coaches that aren't working. He reminds me a bit of Wojo in those ways, which makes me worry we have a ceiling with him that isn't a Super Bowl.
Quote from: cheebs09 on August 25, 2025, 10:13:31 AMI think MLF gets a lot of praise for how he designs an offense, which he seems good at.
I'm worried that we seem to constantly make the same mistakes and he seems slow to move on from coaches that aren't working. He reminds me a bit of Wojo in those ways, which makes me worry we have a ceiling with him that isn't a Super Bowl.
I mean, hell with Wojo, doesn't it more remind you of slightly less successful post-2010 McCarthy? Above average coach who puts together good regular seasons but can't get it done in the playoffs
Quote from: JWags85 on August 25, 2025, 10:56:45 AMI mean, hell with Wojo, doesn't it more remind you of slightly less successful post-2010 McCarthy? Above average coach who puts together good regular seasons but can't get it done in the playoffs
I think that's a pretty apt comparison as well. Doing enough to not get fired, but hasn't really shown the ability to get over the hump.
I'm not sure I get the love for Gutey. We're basically good/great at RB and S and average or below average pretty much everywhere else. If Golden is a true #1 and Kraft really develops into a top 5 TE, then your pass catchers are finally good. But those are big ifs.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 25, 2025, 12:10:39 PMI'm not sure I get the love for Gutey. We're basically good/great at RB and S and average or below average pretty much everywhere else. If Golden is a true #1 and Kraft really develops into a top 5 TE, then your pass catchers are finally good. But those are big ifs.
Gutey is a mediocre GM. Falls in love with measurables and not results.
Quote from: JWags85 on August 25, 2025, 10:56:45 AMI mean, hell with Wojo, doesn't it more remind you of slightly less successful post-2010 McCarthy? Above average coach who puts together good regular seasons but can't get it done in the playoffs
I guess one could use that to describe post-2011 Shaka, too.
Quote from: JWags85 on August 25, 2025, 10:56:45 AMI mean, hell with Wojo, doesn't it more remind you of slightly less successful post-2010 McCarthy? Above average coach who puts together good regular seasons but can't get it done in the playoffs
Quote from: cheebs09 on August 25, 2025, 11:34:37 AMI think that's a pretty apt comparison as well. Doing enough to not get fired, but hasn't really shown the ability to get over the hump.
I agree with this, but then what exactly is the solution? You can't really fire a guy who has been in the playoffs 5 out of 6 seasons. It really is going to have to be a waiting game til the bottom falls out.
Quote from: The Sultan on August 25, 2025, 01:39:39 PMI agree with this, but then what exactly is the solution? You can't really fire a guy who has been in the playoffs 5 out of 6 seasons. It really is going to have to be a waiting game til the bottom falls out.
Correct. If they're a 6 or 7 win team this year, he'll be on the hot seat heading into '26. That seems the floor. If they win 3-5 games and Love is healthy all year and regresses, then all bets are ofd
The only way that GB is a 6-7 win team is if Love is lost.
Quote from: tower912 on August 25, 2025, 02:41:58 PMThe only way that GB is a 6-7 win team is if Love is lost.
Oh I can see how they could reach that win total even with Love.
They start 0-2 against two playoff teams at home (Lions, Commanders)
They then play 4 out of 5 on the road with the only home game against the Bengals
4 of the next six against division opponents and the defending Super Bowl Champions
3 of the last four on the road.
Quote from: The Sultan on August 25, 2025, 01:39:39 PMI agree with this, but then what exactly is the solution? You can't really fire a guy who has been in the playoffs 5 out of 6 seasons.
Stuff like that happens surprisingly often in the NBA and NHL. Hell, the Nuggets in April fired their championship-winning coach with 3 games to play, even though they were having another good season.
In those leagues, an owner often will look for a "new voice" - a coach he thinks can take his team to the "next level." The classic example was the Bulls' switch from a successful Doug Collins to an untested Phil Jackson.
But you're right ... I can't think of the last time it happened in the NFL.
Packers need to find their Wardle and fast.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on August 25, 2025, 04:27:48 PMPackers need to find their Wardle and fast.
Bring Al Harris home.
So, less optimism than for the Brewers.
Quote from: tower912 on August 25, 2025, 05:29:14 PMSo, less optimism than for the Brewers.
I'm not all that optimistic about them either.
Quote from: cheebs09 on August 25, 2025, 11:34:37 AMI think that's a pretty apt comparison as well. Doing enough to not get fired, but hasn't really shown the ability to get over the hump.
You've just described the last three GBP coaches. McCarthy had one fluke season and they won it all, but I have not been in love with the last three coaches.
Ewwww. That would be weird.
Based on recent events, I'd say the Packers now.
Quote from: cheebs09 on August 28, 2025, 04:16:24 PMBased on recent events, I'd say the Packers now.
Still say Brewers.
Quote from: tower912 on August 23, 2025, 07:06:58 AMWho are you more optimistic about?
Wisconsinites, Brewers or Packers?
Illinoisans, Cubs or Bears?
I've got a different answer today than when you asked the question.
As long as LaFleur is on the sideline, I remain the same
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 28, 2025, 04:52:29 PMAs long as LaFleur is on the sideline, I remain the same
I love where this puts LaFleur. Unless Love is injured, I think anything less than Conference Finals will mean he is gone.
Quote from: Jockey on August 28, 2025, 04:59:22 PMI love where this puts LaFleur. Unless Love is injured, I think anything less than Conference Finals will mean he is gone.
Barring major injuries, anything less than that seems he'll deserve the hot seat.
He has a thin moustache now though
I'm more uncertain about Love than I am MLF. If Love is a top 10 QB, which he should be by now given you traded up in the first round to get him and then paid him, then I think the Packers have a great chance at a deep run. If he's what he's been for 75% of his time starting, then I don't think it matters how good the coaching is or what adding Micah Parsons does for the defense. And it starts with valuing the football.
I know what MLF is. He's a solid but not great coach. I think he's good enough to take a loaded roster to a SB, but not good enough to take a good roster to a SB.
I'm not allowed to be optimistic about the White Sox, so I'll sit this thread out.
Quote from: Dish on August 28, 2025, 08:27:11 PMI'm not allowed to be optimistic about the White Sox, so I'll sit this thread out.
Way to know your place.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 28, 2025, 05:01:52 PMBarring major injuries, anything less than that seems he'll deserve the hot seat.
This trade will be Gutey's legacy. He will not let Lefleur screw it up.
Quote from: Jockey on Today at 09:18:47 AMThis trade will be Gutey's legacy. He will not let Lefleur screw it up.
It is his legacy. I'm always leery of a thing happening in sports that is universally praised for one and universally panned for the other.
For me, it's a trade you make every time, even if in hindsight, it turns out poorly. Especially given the Packers recent drafting in the mid-to-late first round. They've drafted guys whose overall performance isn't necessarily that different than others picked later.
I'd think the vibe in the locker room changes dramatically now, too. This is the front office telling the team the time to win is now. No more talk of growth and development. Time to win is now. My belief is this team is pretty soft. Will be curious to see if they play tougher and with a little swagger now.
I've got a little bit of scar tissue from the Dame trade. Hoping this turns out better. But agree, I think with the emphasis on generating a pass rush in the league, you have to make this move.
Quote from: cheebs09 on Today at 09:58:32 AMI've got a little bit of scar tissue from the Dame trade. Hoping this turns out better. But agree, I think with the emphasis on generating a pass rush in the league, you have to make this move.
The age factor makes this different. Dame was well into his 30s. Micah is 26.
But there are no guarantees.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on Today at 09:33:40 AMIt is his legacy. I'm always leery of a thing happening in sports that is universally praised for one and universally panned for the other.
For me, it's a trade you make every time, even if in hindsight, it turns out poorly. Especially given the Packers recent drafting in the mid-to-late first round. They've drafted guys whose overall performance isn't necessarily that different than others picked later.
I'd think the vibe in the locker room changes dramatically now, too. This is the front office telling the team the time to win is now. No more talk of growth and development. Time to win is now.
As a non-GB fan but an interested observer, I agree totally.
Quote from: cheebs09 on Today at 09:58:32 AMI've got a little bit of scar tissue from the Dame trade. Hoping this turns out better. But agree, I think with the emphasis on generating a pass rush in the league, you have to make this move.
It's really nothing like the Dame trade.
He was an overpaid, past-his-prime PG on whom a desperate team took a wild swing.
Parsons is one of the best defensive players in football and is clearly in his prime. The trade required the Packers to give up surprisingly little, and his new contract is market-rate.
Your last sentence is spot-on, though.