https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1945951732908851326?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Concessions open?
Quote from: We R Final Four on July 17, 2025, 06:27:18 PMConcessions open?
Theyre conceding that the hotdog stand is closed.
#Pissed
I thought that was what the Scottish Open was for.
I heard Wojo will be pulling up in an ice cream truck outside the Al to distribute frozen treats
No Glizzy :'(
I cannot make the open practice. Can someone please video it and share it on here. Would love to see how the players look.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on July 24, 2025, 10:42:44 AMI cannot make the open practice. Can someone please video it and share it on here. Would love to see how the players look.
They shrunk this year
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1950236079745065033?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
https://x.com/bensteelemjs/status/1950256636095778933?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Quote from: MuMark on July 29, 2025, 01:42:31 PMhttps://x.com/bensteelemjs/status/1950256636095778933?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Aw, man. Willie is going dressed as Willie Warrior and was going to throw bricks to the crowd when Gold missed a shot
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 29, 2025, 01:54:36 PMAw, man. Willie is going dressed as Willie Warrior and was going to throw bricks to the crowd when Gold missed a shot
Willie is pissed. This won't be the first time he's protested the Tall Blacks.
Somebody is going to write a letter.
Ben Gold sighting at the airport this morning
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on July 31, 2025, 09:02:37 AMBen Gold sighting at the airport this morning
Did he hand you a sample from his Gold Brick Collection?
Some reports that Adrian Steven's has been impressive tonight
Quote from: MuMark on July 31, 2025, 06:58:59 PMSome reports that Adrian Steven's has been impressive tonight
He has been. James was too but he must have gotten hurt because he's not played since the early part of the scrimmage.
https://x.com/joshlepak/status/1951065828893266271?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
https://x.com/joshlepak/status/1951061294519636171?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Blue (Chase, Sean, Royce, Clark, Stevens, Militic)
White (James, Owens, Tre, Caedin, Zaide, Phillips)
Guess which team is currently up 55 - 29 after 18 minutes of play
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 31, 2025, 07:10:19 PMBlue (Chase, Sean, Royce, Clark, Stevens, Militic)
White (James, Owens, Tre, Caedin, Zaide, Phillips)
Guess which team is currently up 55 - 29 after 18 minutes of play
I guess blue
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 31, 2025, 07:10:19 PMBlue (Chase, Sean, Royce, Clark, Stevens, Militic)
White (James, Owens, Tre, Caedin, Zaide, Phillips)
Guess which team is currently up 55 - 29 after 18 minutes of play
This will definitely hurt seeding
Quote from: MUbiz on July 31, 2025, 07:25:06 PMI guess blue
Yep, blue wiped the floor with them. Bit of an asterick though. James sat most of the scrimmage, not sure why
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 31, 2025, 07:29:57 PMYep, blue wiped the floor with them. Bit of an asterick though. James sat most of the scrimmage, not sure why
Grades
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 31, 2025, 07:29:57 PMYep, blue wiped the floor with them. Bit of an asterick though. James sat most of the scrimmage, not sure why
To be fair, my winning team selection was based on whatever team Tre wasn't on. How did Tre look?
Quote from: MUbiz on July 31, 2025, 07:52:00 PMTo be fair, my winning team selection was based on whatever team Tre wasn't on. How did Tre look?
Very cool.
Chase had the best game. Hit a lot of threes.
Stevens was the best freshman. Looked very very good tonight.
DO the best player on White. Hit some threes and had a nice dunk off a backdoor pass by Caedin.
Sean looks 100%. Made a lot of defenders look silly. Needs to work on finishing
Royce, Tre, Zaide, and Caedin looked about the same as they did last year. They tried point Caedin a few times to mixed results
Clark had some nice lob dunks and blocks. That's the entirety of his game right now.
Nigel had a nice stepback three and some good D before having to sit.
Militic had some nice moments. Grabbed some boards and hit some shots. Probably a redshirt or last guy in the rotation.
Phillips gotta think he's a redshirt candidate.
Ben was off galavanting with some Tall Blacks
Quote from: MUbiz on July 31, 2025, 08:00:58 PMVery smart.
Thankfully he's been on a team that's won a lot of games the last couple years. Wonder what this team would've done had he not been anchoring the team down.
Very dumb. I think it's more likely the Blue team was the obvious choice because there are 4 players that are penned in as starters going into next season. 1 is out of the country and the other 3 were on the Blue team. Not because a role player was on one roster and not another.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 31, 2025, 08:02:41 PMThankfully he's been on a team that's won a lot of games the last couple years. Wonder what this team would've done had he not been anchoring the team down.
Very dumb. I think it's more likely the Blue team was the obvious choice because there are 4 players that are penned in as starters going into next season. 1 is out of the country and the other 3 were on the Blue team. Not because a role player was on one roster and not another.
Tre is Marquette's #17 all-time recruit in program history according to 247Sports. In 2 years at MU, he's averaging 1.9 points, 1.4 rebounds, and 0.5 assists over 68 games. He is shooting 34.4% from the field and a cringe-worthy 18.8% from 3. You can sit here and sugar coat all you want - but my assessment is based on facts and data.
Quote from: MUbiz on July 31, 2025, 08:12:12 PMTre is Marquette's #17 all-time recruit in program history according to 247Sports. In 2 years at MU, he's averaging 1.9 points, 1.4 rebounds, and 0.5 assists over 68 games. He is shooting 34.4% from the field and a cringe-worthy 18.8% from 3. You can sit here and sugar coat all you want - but my assessment is based on facts and data.
Lol sure. Looking at the rosters, everything looks even except for Tre. ::)
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 31, 2025, 07:57:00 PMChase had the best game. Hit a lot of threes.
Stevens was the best freshman. Looked very very good tonight.
DO the best player on White. Hit some threes and had a nice dunk off a backdoor pass by Caedin.
Sean looks 100%. Made a lot of defenders look silly. Needs to work on finishing
Royce, Tre, Zaide, and Caedin looked about the same as they did last year. They tried point Caedin a few times to mixed results
Clark had some nice lob dunks and blocks. That's the entirety of his game right now.
Nigel had a nice stepback three and some good D before having to sit.
Militic had some nice moments. Grabbed some boards and hit some shots. Probably a redshirt or last guy in the rotation.
Phillips gotta think he's a redshirt candidate.
Ben was off galavanting with some Tall Blacks
With James out, White didn't have a PG. Lowery initiated the offense but was hounded by Stevens, Ross and Jones. I thought DO did some nice things but struggled to control the ball. Lowery was more assertive offensively and played solid defense. Stevens was the best freshman and likely the second best performer overall. Militec plays hard and was decent. James and Stevens look like the frosh most ready to play. Clark actually surprised me for a kid Shaka took a flyer in signing. He's got good hands and isn't afraid to bang a little. Obviously raw but better than I expected. Phillips doesn't look to be much shorter than Parham and looks like he's still growing. Hamilton has improved but Gold will be the man inside.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 31, 2025, 08:24:47 PMLol sure. Looking at the rosters, everything looks even except for Tre. ::)
That's why they play the game. We will see what Tre does this year starting early November.
Ross and Stevens were the best players today.
White team had a rough day. Perhaps if James didn't get hurt, things may have been a bit more competitive.
Owens made a few shots but struggled with his handle. Didn't use him at pg much even with James out.
Tre had a couple finishes around the rim late but struggled shooting, including 1-6 in free throws.
Caedin had a couple nice post moves against Clark.
Lowery was rather non existent offensively.
Miletic will be a solid player down the line.
Hard to judge Zaide today. After Nigel went down he was playing PG for the White team, which just isnt where he will shine. Totally removed his spot up shooting and off ball cutting and finishing he does so well.
Tre showed tonight that he is number 13
On this team. First shot of the night, airball 3 and 1 for 6 from the free throw line, ouch. James and Jones are much quicker with ball. I have Tre 13, Phillips 12, so skinny, Clark 11. Lowery did not show much. Ross was outstanding, really was impressed with Stevens. Could be first or second off the bench. More depth than any other team in years. Major concern is who scores at the of the game? Shaka has a lot of talent to work with. Caedin improved, body looks like Maurice Lucas.
Tre wasn't 13th on the roster last year. There are a couple guys smarter than Shaka on here, apparently.
Agree with alot of the previous comments.
Stevens was fantastic. Rebounding.....steals....deflections.....help D........hounding on ball defense.
Nigel is suuuper quick. Limited action.
Ian will be solid down the line.....has a strange cross body hitch in his shot. Fouls alot now being out of position.
Philips can really jump. Smooth shot. He is not quite ready.
Chase was awesome on the offensive end.
Caedin had a few nice moves around the basket.
No comment on Zaide, Royce, DO. They will be fine.
Great crowd. Loved watching MUBB in July!
One summer scrimmage does not a season make
Every year people make assumptions on playing time based on these scrimmages.........I didn't go tonight but I've seen many over the years.......seen great players play poorly and role players play very well.
One thing most have in common......they usually look sloppy.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 31, 2025, 09:30:48 PMTre wasn't 13th on the roster last year. There are a couple guys smarter than Shaka on here, apparently.
So tell me your last 3 or 4 players on this team?
Quote from: BCHoopster on July 31, 2025, 09:55:25 PMSo tell me your last 3 or 4 players on this team?
Sheek, Clark and Phillips for sure. Tre is at worst 11th man.
His shot is still not good, but he looked quicker and more confident than last year. Really solid defensively.
Quote from: BCHoopster on July 31, 2025, 09:55:25 PMSo tell me your last 3 or 4 players on this team?
He was just 9th on the team in mpg and we lost 3 of our top 4 players in mpg and he's going to slip to 13th without bringing in a single transfer or a top 50 recruit? Playing for a coach who rewards seniority? Seems logical.
We have 14 players. Sheek is redshirting. Sounds like Phlllips and Militic are a year or more away from contributing. And I'd assume one of Hamilton or Clark see fewer minutes.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 31, 2025, 07:57:00 PMThey tried point Caedin a few times to mixed results
My observation of Caedin as a ball handler was that he showed some decent passing ability
out of the post but that when they had him bring the ball up he struggled. In general, the white team looked really lost without Nigel to initiate offense.
Quote from: MuMark on July 31, 2025, 07:09:24 PMhttps://x.com/joshlepak/status/1951061294519636171?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
More correctly Sean Jones to Josh Clark.
The GAP IS WIDE.
Also, did any of the players grow taller?
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 31, 2025, 07:57:00 PMChase had the best game. Hit a lot of threes.
Stevens was the best freshman. Looked very very good tonight.
DO the best player on White. Hit some threes and had a nice dunk off a backdoor pass by Caedin.
Sean looks 100%. Made a lot of defenders look silly. Needs to work on finishing
Royce, Tre, Zaide, and Caedin looked about the same as they did last year. They tried point Caedin a few times to mixed results
Clark had some nice lob dunks and blocks. That's the entirety of his game right now.
Nigel had a nice stepback three and some good D before having to sit.
Militic had some nice moments. Grabbed some boards and hit some shots. Probably a redshirt or last guy in the rotation.
Phillips gotta think he's a redshirt candidate.
Ben was off galavanting with some Tall Blacks
But were there hotdogs available?
Quote from: MUbiz on July 31, 2025, 08:12:12 PMTre is Marquette's #17 all-time recruit in program history according to 247Sports. In 2 years at MU, he's averaging 1.9 points, 1.4 rebounds, and 0.5 assists over 68 games. He is shooting 34.4% from the field and a cringe-worthy 18.8% from 3. You can sit here and sugar coat all you want - but my assessment is based on facts and data.
The issue is that people seem to want to bash Tre all the time - like in your initial post. Look, he obviously hasn't lived up to whatever ranking he had - although I have no idea what to expect from the "#17 all-time recruit" however. Recruits surprise. Recruits disappoint. Such is the way of the world in college basketball. But he apparently works hard and is a good teammate. That's really all one can ask right? I doubt he's not working on whatever shortfalls he may have.
But then you have bullsh*t like this...
Quote from: BCHoopster on July 31, 2025, 09:19:28 PMTre showed tonight that he is number 13
This just is a bad basketball thought. Unless he gets injured, there is zero chance he will be 13th in minutes when the season is done.
Thanks to everyone who gave practice reports. I always love hearing about the freshman. A lot of these observations match what I observed on their HS film.
Stevens— college ready body, defensive menace, very solid all around player
James— jet quick with the ball and pesky on defense (some cat on the other side said he left with leg cramps)
Miletic— flashes on offense, good effort, but a long way to go on defense, foul issues
Phillips— young and raw, legit shot blocker
Overall, my thoughts on playing time remain the same. James and Stevens will be rotation players this year. Miletic is probably a year away from rotation minutes; end of bench this year. It would not surprise me to see Phillips join Pearson as a redshirt.
Most teams only play 8 to 10 players when the Big East games start, is Tre one of them, maybe maybe not. Time will tell.
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 01, 2025, 07:57:16 AMMost teams only play 8 to 10 players when the Big East games start, is Tre one of them, maybe maybe not. Time will tell.
In other words, he's not "number 13" as you stated less than 12 hours ago.
If youre expecting Tre to make a leap to star, of course there is going to be disappointment.
If you recognize Tre as what he is, a role player and great culture guy, he was totally fine yesterday. He looked quicker. Defends well and doesnt mess up rotations. He was aggressive around the rim on offense. No, he cant shoot which is unfortunate.
He's never going to have the offensive game to be a star, but its pretty easy to see why the coaches trust him as an 8-10th man off the bench. And he is clearly bought into this program and one of the vocal leaders on this team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3GeWrgQPI
What Shaka thought about the practice and the summer in general.
Quote from: The Sultan on August 01, 2025, 08:01:41 AMIn other words, he's not "number 13" as you stated less than 12 hours ago.
If he is 11-13, he is not playing much.
Quote from: The Sultan on August 01, 2025, 07:41:12 AMThe issue is that people seem to want to bash Tre all the time - like in your initial post. Look, he obviously hasn't lived up to whatever ranking he had - although I have no idea what to expect from the "#17 all-time recruit" however. Recruits surprise. Recruits disappoint. Such is the way of the world in college basketball. But he apparently works hard and is a good teammate. That's really all one can ask right? I doubt he's not working on whatever shortfalls he may have.
The narrative of "Tre works hard and is a good teammate" applies to the entire team - or else Shaka would not have recruited them. This is D1 basketball, not a lifetime fitness rec league; if you do not produce, you need to sit. I trust Shaka, but I also am one of those scoopers who expects to win every year - not just be happy to make the tournament. We spend top 15-20 in money in entire country every year and should expect more from the program. I hold MUBB to a high standard and will give credit where due, but also call out players that do not produce.
As far as the 17th ranked recruit - below is what Tre was being compared against when he first came to MU. It is more than fair to say he has not lived up to expectations to date.
https://x.com/MikeYagmin/status/1567303891187863554
Bottom line, MU has added 3 better guards this year, happens
Quote from: MUbiz on August 01, 2025, 08:47:45 AMIt is more than fair to say he has not lived up to expectations to date.
If this was all you said, no one would disagree. Your "I automatically assume whatever team Tre was on was the one that lost" assessment is a poor take in poor taste.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 01, 2025, 08:52:53 AMIf this was all you said, no one would disagree. Your "I automatically assume whatever team Tre was on was the one that lost" assessment is a poor take in poor taste.
NM. I was following the wrong argument. Mea culpa.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 01, 2025, 08:52:53 AMIf this was all you said, no one would disagree. Your "I automatically assume whatever team Tre was on was the one that lost" assessment is a poor take in poor taste.
I said that more tongue in cheek than anything, but it is clear it did not come across that way.
I'm not saying Tres been good but using the 17th best recruit as a reason for him to be better is lacking context.
1) these are since 247's been around (or whatever the previous company was called, I can't remember anymore)
2) lets see who was above him to gauge the accuracy of these rankings.
Henry Ellenson- Lived up to hype
Dawson Garcia- debatable
Jajuan Johnson- did not live up to hype
Vander Blue- took till Junior year to live up to hype
Joey Hauser- debatable but if nothing else did not emotionally live up to hype
Damarius Owens- TBD
Deonte Burton- lived up to hype elsewhere
Dameon Mason- did not live up to hype
Sheek Pearson- tbd
Symir Torrence- did not live up to hype
Lazar Hayward- Lived up to hype
Dominic James- lived up to hype
Duane Wilson- debatable, but mostly did not live up to hype
Nigel James- tbd
Junior Cadougan- did not live up to hype
Stevie Mitchell- did not live up to hype
Tre Norman- has not lived up to hype
So with that in mind maybe we can stop the "hes supposed to be one of the best recruits ever!" Line of thinking.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2025, 09:28:10 AMStevie Mitchell- did not live up to hype
Out of curiosity, why did Stevie not live up to the hype? He progressed to be a 10 point a game scorer and one of the best defenders in the big east, if not country.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2025, 09:28:10 AMI'm not saying Tres been good but using the 17th best recruit as a reason for him to be better is lacking context.
1) these are since 247's been around (or whatever the previous company was called, I can't remember anymore)
2) lets see who was above him to gauge the accuracy of these rankings.
Henry Ellenson- Lived up to hype
Dawson Garcia- debatable
Jajuan Johnson- did not live up to hype
Vander Blue- took till Junior year to live up to hype
Joey Hauser
Damarius Owens- TBD
Deonte Burton- lived up to hype elsewhere
Dameon Mason- did not live up to hype
Sheek Pearson- tbd
Symir Torrence- did not live up to hype
Lazar Hayward- Lived up to hype
Dominic James- lived up to hype
Duane Wilson- debatable, but mostly did not live up to hype
Nigel James- tbd
Junior Cadougan- did not live up to hype
Stevie Mitchell- did not live up to hype
Tre Norman- has not lived up to hype
So with that in mind maybe we can stop the "hes supposed to be one of the best recruits ever!" Line of thinking.
Stevie "did not live up to the hype?" Yet Duane Wilson is "debatable?"
Stevie started over 100 games and played on four NCAA teams as well as a conference champion. Looking at advanced stats, he was WAY more impactful than Duane Wilson ever was.
Quote from: MUbiz on August 01, 2025, 09:37:07 AMOut of curiosity, why did Stevie not live up to the hype? He progressed to be a 10 point a game scorer and one of the best defenders in the big east, if not country.
Absolutely agree. Defensive force, team leader, a hair from a 1,000 point scorer.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on August 01, 2025, 09:44:40 AMAbsolutely agree. Defensive force, team leader, a hair from a 1,000 point scorer.
Would have been a 1k scorer if he didn't have to duct tape his body together for half of last year.
Tre is a solid defender. He also can get to and finish at the rim.
I was hoping that his "release from behind his head" 3 point shot would be addressed and altered since March. It has not.
If he continues to be a dog on D he will play. However, teams will be begging him to shoot from deep.
Quote from: We R Final Four on August 01, 2025, 10:07:11 AMTre is a solid defender. He also can get to and finish at the rim.
I was hoping that his "release from behind his head" 3 point shot would be addressed and altered since March. It has not.
If he continues to be a dog on D he will play. However, teams will be begging him to shoot from deep.
All of the other guards can defend, too. Jones, Ross, Lowery, James, and Stevens... that's a deep group of perimeter defenders.
I think all 5 are better offensive players than Tre. Tre's not all that quick or explosive on his drives. His shooting struggles are well documented.
It's unfortunate Tre gets dumped on so much for not living up to his recruiting rankings. But if we're being honest, I have a hard time seeing him getting more than spot minutes this year. I don't think Shaka even mentioned him in yesterday's media session after the open practice.
Not every recruit is going to work out. Just the way it is.
Quote from: MUbiz on August 01, 2025, 08:47:45 AMThe narrative of "Tre works hard and is a good teammate" applies to the entire team - or else Shaka would not have recruited them. This is D1 basketball, not a lifetime fitness rec league; if you do not produce, you need to sit. I trust Shaka, but I also am one of those scoopers who expects to win every year - not just be happy to make the tournament. We spend top 15-20 in money in entire country every year and should expect more from the program. I hold MUBB to a high standard and will give credit where due, but also call out players that do not produce.
As far as the 17th ranked recruit - below is what Tre was being compared against when he first came to MU. It is more than fair to say he has not lived up to expectations to date.
https://x.com/MikeYagmin/status/1567303891187863554
If you expected Trey Norman to be at the same level as Cade Cunningham, Ben Simmons, Paolo Banchero, Cam Reddish, etc. then I would suggest the issue is more you, not Tre.
And the good news is that with 15 roster spots, not everyone has to be those guys! Marquette has been great under Shaka. Pretending like fans are just "accepting mediocrity" because they don't call out Tre Norman more is dumb. You aren't a better fan because you pick whichever team Tre Norman isn't on.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on August 01, 2025, 10:40:08 AMAll of the other guards can defend, too. Jones, Ross, Lowery, James, and Stevens... that's a deep group of perimeter defenders.
I think all 5 are better offensive players than Tre. Tre's not all that quick or explosive on his drives. His shooting struggles are well documented.
It's unfortunate Tre gets dumped on so much for not living up to his recruiting rankings. But if we're being honest, I have a hard time seeing him getting more than spot minutes this year. I don't think Shaka even mentioned him in yesterday's media session after the open practice.
Not every recruit is going to work out. Just the way it is.
He talked about the freshmen because he was asked about them. I don't recall him talking about Zaide Lowery or Chase Ross either.
But we will see. Stevens and James have to do it in real, actual games.
Quote from: MUbiz on August 01, 2025, 09:37:07 AMOut of curiosity, why did Stevie not live up to the hype? He progressed to be a 10 point a game scorer and one of the best defenders in the big east, if not country.
Defensively and culturally absolutely. However, take away his name and if I told you that the 16th best recruit ever at Marquette, who averaged 22.3ppg, 5.4 rpg and 1.9 apg his senior year, was going to have a career average here of 7.4ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.1 apg there is no way you say he lived up to the hype.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2025, 10:44:39 AMDefensively and culturally absolutely. However, take away his name and if I told you that the 16th best recruit ever at Marquette, who averaged 22.3ppg, 5.4 rpg and 1.9 apg his senior year, was going to have a career average here of 7.4ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.1 apg there is no way you say he lived up to the hype.
Well good thing I (and others) realize the game is played on both ends and actually...you know...watched him play.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 01, 2025, 10:40:31 AMIf you expected Trey Norman to be at the same level as Cade Cunningham, Ben Simmons, Paolo Banchero, Cam Reddish, etc. then I would suggest the issue is more you, not Tre.
And the good news is that with 15 roster spots, not everyone has to be those guys! Marquette has been great under Shaka. Pretending like fans are just "accepting mediocrity" because they don't call out Tre Norman more is dumb. You aren't a better fan because you pick whichever team Tre Norman isn't on.
When did I say Tre was going to be as good as Banchero, Reddish, Cunningham etc? You missed my point completely. My point was Tre was one of the best EYBL players in the country at one point - so much so he was being compared to other elite players. If Tre played half as good as he did in EYBL, he would be a sure fire starter this year for the team.
Insinuating I'm dumb because I'm calling out players who haven't performed is just lazy nonsense. I'm bringing facts to the table - care to match me with some actual arguments?
As far as picking a team who wins or loses in July in an open scrimmage, please read below:
Quote from: MUbiz on August 01, 2025, 09:03:58 AMI said that more tongue in cheek than anything, but it is clear it did not come across that way.
Shaka sai
Quote from: The Sultan on August 01, 2025, 10:42:38 AMHe talked about the freshmen because he was asked about them. I don't recall him talking about Zaide Lowery or Chase Ross either.
But we will see. Stevens and James have to do it in real, actual games.
Quote from: The Sultan on August 01, 2025, 10:42:38 AMHe talked about the freshmen because he was asked about them. I don't recall him talking about Zaide Lowery or Chase Ross either.
But we will see. Stevens and James have to do it in real, actual games.
Shaka said Zaide struggled last night, but he has been a top 4 or 5 player this summer.
Pretty sure he also mentioned Chase shot the ball well, but I can't swear to it under oath.
But thanks for explaining how press conferences work, Mr. Dunning-Kruger. As a former media member, who has covered the Packers, Bucks, Brewers, and Badgers, I really needed it explained to me.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2025, 10:44:39 AMDefensively and culturally absolutely. However, take away his name and if I told you that the 16th best recruit ever at Marquette, who averaged 22.3ppg, 5.4 rpg and 1.9 apg his senior year, was going to have a career average here of 7.4ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.1 apg there is no way you say he lived up to the hype.
How about a 3 year starter for BE champ and Sweet 16 team? Does that qualify as living up to the hype?
I guess the hope was for Stevie to be a better offensive player. But an Ok offensive player and elite defender is still a valuable player and recruiting success.
Stevie willed us to victory more than once. I'm a big stats guy, but some guys have intangibles that are crazy valuable.
Reading through a number of posts it is clear there isn't a great deal of appreciation for what Sean did on the court last night.
More than 1 person said Chase and Stevens we the best players on the court, and hardly a mention of Sean. While Chase was very aggressive and deserving of the recognition, and Stevens was a pleasant surprise - Sean is the clear leader and most valuable player on the roster. He dominated whoever was in front of him offensively and defensively!!!
Sean and Chase controlled the scrimmage, and will be the backbone of this team. Coming off a torn acl, that was far and away the most impressive thing I saw last night.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on August 01, 2025, 11:10:08 AMShaka sai
Shaka said Zaide struggled last night, but he has been a top 4 or 5 player this summer.
Pretty sure he also mentioned Chase shot the ball well, but I can't swear to it under oath.
But thanks for explaining how press conferences work, Mr. Dunning-Kruger. As a former media member, who has covered the Packers, Bucks, Brewers, and Badgers, I really needed it explained to me.
Well, then you would know why Tre may not have been mentioned.
I had no idea that you used to be a sports media member - that explains a lot.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on August 01, 2025, 11:15:20 AMHow about a 3 year starter for BE champ and Sweet 16 team? Does that qualify as living up to the hype?
I guess the hope was for Stevie to be a better offensive player. But an Ok offensive player and elite defender is still a valuable player and recruiting success.
I agree, he was extremely valuable, I am definitely team Stevie. Did he live up to the hype of being the 16th best recruit in MU history? Nope but he was a huge recruiting success. I think people are reading my list and interpreting that I'm saying he was a failure, I'm not. Junior was also instrumental on a sweet 16 team, and a two year starter on a second place/S16 team and a Big East Champions/E8 team. Did he live up to the hype as the 4th best recruit ever when he came in? No.
keep in mind that 247 projected Stevie above Markus, Jerel, Wes, Kam, Justin, Oso, Sam, Jop, Chase, etc. Not to mention a transfer like Kolek.
Quote from: The Sultan on August 01, 2025, 11:18:55 AMWell, then you would know why Tre may not have been mentioned.
I had no idea that you used to be a sports media member - that explains a lot.
My media tenure was predominantly news (videographer and editor) but sports was my passion, so I always was happy to help cover games and practices.
Adrien seems like he could be the Stevie replacement. Ross, Royce and Sean need to take things up a level this year. Still concerned about the front court, but hopeful Caedin or Clark surprises. Maybe Ben will go the Chris Anderson "Birdman" route and add some edge to his play style 8-)
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2025, 11:28:59 AMI agree, he was extremely valuable, I am definitely team Stevie. Did he live up to the hype of being the 16th best recruit in MU history? Nope but he was a huge recruiting success. I think people are reading my list and interpreting that I'm saying he was a failure, I'm not. Junior was also instrumental on a sweet 16 team, and a two year starter on a second place/S16 team and a Big East Champions/E8 team. Did he live up to the hype as the 4th best recruit ever when he came in? No.
keep in mind that 247 projected Stevie above Markus, Jerel, Wes, Kam, Justin, Oso, Sam, Jop, Chase, etc. Not to mention a transfer like Kolek.
He was ranked the 92nd player in his class. I would say that he performed better than I would normally expect the 92nd rated player would perform. He lived up to the hype.
Quote from: Markusquette on August 01, 2025, 11:38:03 AMMaybe Ben will go the Chris Anderson "Birdman" route and add some edge to his play style 8-)
Ben coming back after playing with the tall blacks with bird themed tattoos? Perhaps a golden eagle?
Quote from: MUbiz on August 01, 2025, 11:48:49 AMBen coming back after playing with the tall blacks with bird themed tattoos? Perhaps a golden eagle?
I'd prefer he comeback with cartoonish Native American look to confuse Willie
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2025, 11:28:59 AMI agree, he was extremely valuable, I am definitely team Stevie. Did he live up to the hype of being the 16th best recruit in MU history? Nope but he was a huge recruiting success. I think people are reading my list and interpreting that I'm saying he was a failure, I'm not. Junior was also instrumental on a sweet 16 team, and a two year starter on a second place/S16 team and a Big East Champions/E8 team. Did he live up to the hype as the 4th best recruit ever when he came in? No.
keep in mind that 247 projected Stevie above Markus, Jerel, Wes, Kam, Justin, Oso, Sam, Jop, Chase, etc. Not to mention a transfer like Kolek.
If Stevie was " projected " above Markus.....it's only because Markus reclassified.
I think that also shows the limitations of projection systems when it comes to prospects ranked outside the top 10-15.
For a guy ranked near the back end of the top 100 there should really be no " hype" and I don't recall any hype when Wojo signed him.........what I do recall is some people were pissed that we ended up with both Stevie and Kam instead of Tyrese Hunter........
If anything those other players far exceeded what you would expect considering where they were slotted as recruits.
Markus, Kam, Jerel and Kolek all became All Americans........that is remarkable considering none of them were 5 stars......and Kolek wasn't even a high major recruit.
Henry Ellenson was hyped..........Markus was hyped because of his reputation and reclassication........Garcia was hyped......
Stevie wasn't hyped.......he was a nice recruit that had potential........just like a lot of other guys.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on August 01, 2025, 10:40:08 AMAll of the other guards can defend, too. Jones, Ross, Lowery, James, and Stevens... that's a deep group of perimeter defenders.
I think all 5 are better offensive players than Tre. Tre's not all that quick or explosive on his drives. His shooting struggles are well documented.
It's unfortunate Tre gets dumped on so much for not living up to his recruiting rankings. But if we're being honest, I have a hard time seeing him getting more than spot minutes this year. I don't think Shaka even mentioned him in yesterday's media session after the open practice.
Not every recruit is going to work out. Just the way it is.
He didn't mention Royce and he certainly will play.
Thanks to everybody who reported from the scrimmage. Just makes me more psyched about the future of Marquette hoops.
Particularly happy to hear about Sean's progress, and how well Stevens played. Obviously, hoping James' situation isn't serious; I think somebody said it was cramps, which would be a relief.
Stevie was a very valuable player and a 3-year starter for a team that won 79 games, including a Big East title and a Sweet 16 appearance. I got the overall point of Galway Eagle's post, but I strongly disagree that Stevie - barely ranked as a top 100 recruit in his class - underperformed.
Quote from: MuMark on August 01, 2025, 12:21:24 PMIf Stevie was " projected " above Markus.....it's only because Markus reclassified.
I think that also shows the limitations of projection systems when it comes to prospects ranked outside the top 10-15.
For a guy ranked near the back end of the top 100 there should really be no " hype" and I don't recall any hype when Wojo signed him.........what I do recall is some people were pissed that we ended up with both Stevie and Kam instead of Tyrese Hunter........
If anything those other players far exceeded what you would expect considering where they were slotted as recruits.
Markus, Kam, Jerel and Kolek all became All Americans........that is remarkable considering none of them were 5 stars......and Kolek wasn't even a high major recruit.
Henry Ellenson was hyped..........Markus was hyped because of his reputation and reclassication........Garcia was hyped......
Stevie wasn't hyped.......he was a nice recruit that had potential........just like a lot of other guys.
This is a better way of saying what I was trying to get at. Essentially bringing it back to Tre, stating he's the 17th best in MU history isn't saying a lot because the vast vast majority of our recruits are from the 50-150 range and that's largely interchangeable with a ton of misses, i used the term "hype" because when you frame it as the "17th best recruit in MU history" it creates hype and expectations exceeding what their ranking realistically is telling us. As far as Stevie goes, he was a success given his ranking, he also did not ultimately perform as the 16th best recruit in MU history, other players out played theirs it's not an insult to the guy to say I'm picking three big east players of the year or multiple all Americans over him.
I would add Vander to that hyped group though.
Yep.....Vander was hyped.....and it took him until his 3rd year to live up to it.......even though he certainly added value before that.
Stevie's defense was off the chart when he was healthy, offensively when he was good, MU was really good. Stevens is a better shooter than Stevie already, good technique, not afraid to shoot, many times Stevie did not want to shoot. He had a great career just ended poorly due to his injuries.
We've already decided a guy is a better shooter than Stevie based on a summer scrimmage, even though his shooting is what's been mentioned as a "weakness."
Post-scrimmage summertime is usually silly season around here.
Quote from: MUbiz on August 01, 2025, 11:48:49 AMBen coming back after playing with the tall blacks with bird themed tattoos? Perhaps a golden eagle?
Someone with Photoshop skillz: give us Ben with a Mohawk and some crazy throat tats!
Quote from: The Sultan on August 01, 2025, 02:31:39 PMPost-scrimmage summertime is usually silly season around here.
For instance...
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 15, 2024, 02:30:04 PMSince Owens looks like a player that can sub at the 2,3,and 4 I see him as at least 20-25 minutes a game
Quote from: Jay Bee on August 01, 2025, 11:17:47 AMStevie willed us to victory more than once. I'm a big stats guy, but some guys have intangibles that are crazy valuable.
Ethan Johnston your table is ready.
Quote from: 94Warrior on August 01, 2025, 11:18:31 AMReading through a number of posts it is clear there isn't a great deal of appreciation for what Sean did on the court last night.
More than 1 person said Chase and Stevens we the best players on the court, and hardly a mention of Sean. While Chase was very aggressive and deserving of the recognition, and Stevens was a pleasant surprise - Sean is the clear leader and most valuable player on the roster. He dominated whoever was in front of him offensively and defensively!!!
Sean and Chase controlled the scrimmage, and will be the backbone of this team. Coming off a torn acl, that was far and away the most impressive thing I saw last night.
In my opinion, no one could really stay in front of Sean defensively, but I'm not sure how effective he was overall on offense. He has a tendency to drive hard to the basket and then get caught in no-man's land, which leads to some erratic passes and turnovers. That said, I'm not too worried — it was an open practice, so he may have been a little extra amped up, and there's still three months before the season starts for him to build chemistry with his teammates. There is no question he will be one of the two or three most important players on the team.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on August 01, 2025, 04:50:50 AMMy observation of Caedin as a ball handler was that he showed some decent passing ability out of the post but that when they had him bring the ball up he struggled. In general, the white team looked really lost without Nigel to initiate offense.
I was really impressed with how much slimmer Hamilton looked this year, but I didn't notice much improvement overall — at least based on the limited sample from a preseason open scrimmage. He still struggles to contest shots at the rim, and his free throw motion looked even more awkward than I remember. I'm curious if Clark might end up being the third center, assuming Parham is the second. Clark brings real value as a lob threat and rim protector. It might ultimately come down to who rebounds better.
Quote from: AverageJoe on August 01, 2025, 03:18:07 PMIn my opinion, no one could really stay in front of Sean defensively, but I'm not sure how effective he was overall on offense. He has a tendency to drive hard to the basket and then get caught in no-man's land, which leads to some erratic passes and turnovers. That said, I'm not too worried — it was an open practice, so he may have been a little extra amped up, and there's still three months before the season starts for him to build chemistry with his teammates. There is no question he will be one of the two or three most important players on the team.
As you said, it was open practice, but...I agree with the bolded. I really loved watching Sean for the short time before his ACL, but I want to see both better decision making and knowing when it is wise to slam on the brakes this season.
Quote from: AverageJoe on August 01, 2025, 03:18:07 PMIn my opinion, no one could really stay in front of Sean defensively, but I'm not sure how effective he was overall on offense. He has a tendency to drive hard to the basket and then get caught in no-man's land, which leads to some erratic passes and turnovers. That said, I'm not too worried — it was an open practice, so he may have been a little extra amped up, and there's still three months before the season starts for him to build chemistry with his teammates. There is no question he will be one of the two or three most important players on the team.
I thought Jones did very well after being hurt and sitting out a year. I thought Lowery did a good job covering him. Given he's 7" taller than Jones, he can still make it difficult for Jones to do anything at the rim even if he does get by. I'm hoping Jones shoots the ball well enough this season to keep the D honest.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 01, 2025, 02:27:06 PMWe've already decided a guy is a better shooter than Stevie based on a summer scrimmage, even though his shooting is what's been mentioned as a "weakness."
That's how it works....
The hardest worker his coach said, so you work on your weakness, looks like he did that!
Quote from: Zog from Margo on August 01, 2025, 04:44:48 PMI thought Jones did very well after being hurt and sitting out a year. I thought Lowery did a good job covering him. Given he's 7" taller than Jones, he can still make it difficult for Jones to do anything at the rim even if he does get by. I'm hoping Jones shoots the ball well enough this season to keep the D honest.
I'd love to see Jones become the leader of the team.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on August 01, 2025, 06:47:32 PMI'd love to see Jones become the leader of the team.
Jones just finished a year as the leader of the team. Oh, you mean Sean.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on August 01, 2025, 06:47:32 PMI'd love to see Jones become the leader of the team.
Some think Tre will start over him. I think that is incorrect. This team will go as Sean goes, IMO. Whether the team will be good or not, no idea.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2025, 09:28:10 AMI'm not saying Tres been good but using the 17th best recruit as a reason for him to be better is lacking context.
1) these are since 247's been around (or whatever the previous company was called, I can't remember anymore)
2) lets see who was above him to gauge the accuracy of these rankings.
Henry Ellenson- Lived up to hype
Dawson Garcia- debatable
Jajuan Johnson- did not live up to hype
Vander Blue- took till Junior year to live up to hype
Joey Hauser- debatable but if nothing else did not emotionally live up to hype
Damarius Owens- TBD
Deonte Burton- lived up to hype elsewhere
Dameon Mason- did not live up to hype
Sheek Pearson- tbd
Symir Torrence- did not live up to hype
Lazar Hayward- Lived up to hype
Dominic James- lived up to hype
Duane Wilson- debatable, but mostly did not live up to hype
Nigel James- tbd
Junior Cadougan- did not live up to hype
Stevie Mitchell- did not live up to hype
Tre Norman- has not lived up to hype
So with that in mind maybe we can stop the "hes supposed to be one of the best recruits ever!" Line of thinking.
Galway, if every recruit underperformed like Stevie we'd have another natty.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on August 01, 2025, 02:42:46 PMSomeone with Photoshop skillz: give us Ben with a Mohawk and some crazy throat tats!
I got you
(https://i.postimg.cc/FK74CZ5P/bg.jpg)
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on August 01, 2025, 03:28:45 PMAs you said, it was open practice, but...I agree with the bolded. I really loved watching Sean for the short time before his ACL, but I want to see both better decision making and knowing when it is wise to slam on the brakes this season.
This will be a theme that we read on this board over and over and over this season- the Sean jones erratic drive to the basket with nowhere to go, stuck in no man's land and the enraging turnover that comes with it...
Slamming on the breaks is easier said than done, and much harder when those breaks are coming off of a catastrophic tear.
He's not erratic, he's fast as heck. He's also tiny as heck, so no man's land will become a constant theme. We are used to the wizardry of TyKo and Kam so that compounds mistakes, to our Golden Eagle eyes.
His positives and lighting fast abilities far outweigh the negatives, so don't let the mistakes blind the truth.
As for the overall picture-
- Seems like SJ22 and Nigel James will control 95%+ of the minutes at the 1, barring injury. Tre next man up
- Benny will get most of the minutes at the 5, with Caedin and Josh filling the other 10.
- Chase will get 33-35mpg, and be far and away the most important and valuable player on this years team.
Very happy for Adrien Stevens but a bit concerned that a frosh was one of the best players on the court yesterday and one of the best all summer... previous posters have mentioned a roster "loaded" with talent and if that's the case we need the cream to rise to the top in the next few months.
A bit concerned with Parham/DO combo. Many of us mentioned those as bonafide pieces and likely/possible starters for this season. My guess is that Shaka's toughest work for this season will be to get those two to reach their lofty potential- if they are as good as they can be the team reaches a different level.
It seems clear that Shaka really wants Zaide Lowery to take the next step to becoming a dude. He's said before that he was the main recruiter for Zaide and brought him to MU despite his staffs hesitation.
My guess is that a starting spot is his to lose.
SJ22/Chase/Zaide/Parham/BG starting 5 at seasons tip.
DO, Nigel, Stevens with major roles.
Caedin, Miletic, Clark, Tre, Phillips with work to do.
When does the portal open?
While the scrimmage was in July, so expected to be a bit sloppy, it's good to see that Scoop is already in mid season form.
Quote from: DoctorV on August 02, 2025, 12:43:12 AMThis will be a theme that we read on this board over and over and over this season- the Sean jones erratic drive to the basket with nowhere to go, stuck in no man's land and the enraging turnover that comes with it...
Slamming on the breaks is easier said than done, and much harder when those breaks are coming off of a catastrophic tear.
He's not erratic, he's fast as heck. He's also tiny as heck, so no man's land will become a constant theme. We are used to the wizardry of TyKo and Kam so that compounds mistakes, to our Golden Eagle eyes.
His positives and lighting fast abilities far outweigh the negatives, so don't let the mistakes blind the truth.
As for the overall picture-
- Seems like SJ22 and Nigel James will control 95%+ of the minutes at the 1, barring injury. Tre next man up
- Benny will get most of the minutes at the 5, with Caedin and Josh filling the other 10.
- Chase will get 33-35mpg, and be far and away the most important and valuable player on this years team.
Very happy for Adrien Stevens but a bit concerned that a frosh was one of the best players on the court yesterday and one of the best all summer... previous posters have mentioned a roster "loaded" with talent and if that's the case we need the cream to rise to the top in the next few months.
A bit concerned with Parham/DO combo. Many of us mentioned those as bonafide pieces and likely/possible starters for this season. My guess is that Shaka's toughest work for this season will be to get those two to reach their lofty potential- if they are as good as they can be the team reaches a different level.
It seems clear that Shaka really wants Zaide Lowery to take the next step to becoming a dude. He's said before that he was the main recruiter for Zaide and brought him to MU despite his staffs hesitation.
My guess is that a starting spot is his to lose.
SJ22/Chase/Zaide/Parham/BG starting 5 at seasons tip.
DO, Nigel, Stevens with major roles.
Caedin, Miletic, Clark, Tre, Phillips with work to do.
When does the portal open?
I kind of hope they go 8-23 this year just to stick it to Shaka for not using the portal
Quote from: DoctorV on August 02, 2025, 12:43:12 AMThis will be a theme that we read on this board over and over and over this season- the Sean jones erratic drive to the basket with nowhere to go, stuck in no man's land and the enraging turnover that comes with it...
Slamming on the breaks is easier said than done, and much harder when those breaks are coming off of a catastrophic tear.
He's not erratic, he's fast as heck. He's also tiny as heck, so no man's land will become a constant theme. We are used to the wizardry of TyKo and Kam so that compounds mistakes, to our Golden Eagle eyes.
His positives and lighting fast abilities far outweigh the negatives, so don't let the mistakes blind the truth.
As for the overall picture-
- Seems like SJ22 and Nigel James will control 95%+ of the minutes at the 1, barring injury. Tre next man up
- Benny will get most of the minutes at the 5, with Caedin and Josh filling the other 10.
- Chase will get 33-35mpg, and be far and away the most important and valuable player on this years team.
Very happy for Adrien Stevens but a bit concerned that a frosh was one of the best players on the court yesterday and one of the best all summer... previous posters have mentioned a roster "loaded" with talent and if that's the case we need the cream to rise to the top in the next few months.
A bit concerned with Parham/DO combo. Many of us mentioned those as bonafide pieces and likely/possible starters for this season. My guess is that Shaka's toughest work for this season will be to get those two to reach their lofty potential- if they are as good as they can be the team reaches a different level.
It seems clear that Shaka really wants Zaide Lowery to take the next step to becoming a dude. He's said before that he was the main recruiter for Zaide and brought him to MU despite his staffs hesitation.
My guess is that a starting spot is his to lose.
SJ22/Chase/Zaide/Parham/BG starting 5 at seasons tip.
DO, Nigel, Stevens with major roles.
Caedin, Miletic, Clark, Tre, Phillips with work to do.
When does the portal open?
It's good to hear that JTY looks healthy and has his jets back. He's got to be able to hit some 3 balls though Dr.V. It's one scrimmage in July, hopefully he will get there. The question is will he have to be primary scorer for us after Chase? I'm not sure that's ideal for us. However, if he can keep the D honest, drop dimes, take care of the rock, and give us 8-10 ppg with decent efficiency? That works for me. Remember, we're talking about a young man with a tremendous motor that will lead us in transition. He possesses tier 1 zoomability combined with tier 1 pestiferousness on the defensive end. This can bode very well for us Dr.V.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 02, 2025, 07:05:31 AMI kind of hope they go 8-23 this year just to stick it to Shaka for not using the portal
Ha!
What is your take on the team? Assuming players develop, I'm in the category of hoping they are good but will have to see it to believe it. Shaka will have done his finest coaching at MU to date if this team makes the NCAA tournament this season IMO.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 02, 2025, 09:03:03 AMHa!
What is your take on the team? Assuming players develop, I'm in the category of hoping they are good but will have to see it to believe it. Shaka will have done his finest coaching at MU to date if this team makes the NCAA tournament this season IMO.
3-4 in BE, 7-10 seed
Quote from: DoctorV on August 02, 2025, 12:43:12 AMThis will be a theme that we read on this board over and over and over this season- the Sean jones erratic drive to the basket with nowhere to go, stuck in no man's land and the enraging turnover that comes with it...
Slamming on the breaks is easier said than done, and much harder when those breaks are coming off of a catastrophic tear.
He's not erratic, he's fast as heck. He's also tiny as heck, so no man's land will become a constant theme. We are used to the wizardry of TyKo and Kam so that compounds mistakes, to our Golden Eagle eyes.
His positives and lighting fast abilities far outweigh the negatives, so don't let the mistakes blind the truth.
As for the overall picture-
- Seems like SJ22 and Nigel James will control 95%+ of the minutes at the 1, barring injury. Tre next man up
- Benny will get most of the minutes at the 5, with Caedin and Josh filling the other 10.
- Chase will get 33-35mpg, and be far and away the most important and valuable player on this years team.
Very happy for Adrien Stevens but a bit concerned that a frosh was one of the best players on the court yesterday and one of the best all summer... previous posters have mentioned a roster "loaded" with talent and if that's the case we need the cream to rise to the top in the next few months.
A bit concerned with Parham/DO combo. Many of us mentioned those as bonafide pieces and likely/possible starters for this season. My guess is that Shaka's toughest work for this season will be to get those two to reach their lofty potential- if they are as good as they can be the team reaches a different level.
It seems clear that Shaka really wants Zaide Lowery to take the next step to becoming a dude. He's said before that he was the main recruiter for Zaide and brought him to MU despite his staffs hesitation.
My guess is that a starting spot is his to lose.
SJ22/Chase/Zaide/Parham/BG starting 5 at seasons tip.
DO, Nigel, Stevens with major roles.
Caedin, Miletic, Clark, Tre, Phillips with work to do.
When does the portal open?
Not sure why you'd be concerned about Parham and Owens at this point. Because they didn't dominate a scrimmage?
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 02, 2025, 09:03:03 AMHa!
What is your take on the team? Assuming players develop, I'm in the category of hoping they are good but will have to see it to believe it. Shaka will have done his finest coaching at MU to date if this team makes the NCAA tournament this season IMO.
A better coaching job than taking a projected 9th place to team to BE champs and winning National COY?
Sure, Jan.
Quote from: DoctorV on August 02, 2025, 12:43:12 AMThis will be a theme that we read on this board over and over and over this season- the Sean jones erratic drive to the basket with nowhere to go, stuck in no man's land and the enraging turnover that comes with it...
Slamming on the breaks is easier said than done, and much harder when those breaks are coming off of a catastrophic tear.
He's not erratic, he's fast as heck. He's also tiny as heck, so no man's land will become a constant theme. We are used to the wizardry of TyKo and Kam so that compounds mistakes, to our Golden Eagle eyes.
His positives and lighting fast abilities far outweigh the negatives, so don't let the mistakes blind the truth.
As for the overall picture-
- Seems like SJ22 and Nigel James will control 95%+ of the minutes at the 1, barring injury. Tre next man up
- Benny will get most of the minutes at the 5, with Caedin and Josh filling the other 10.
- Chase will get 33-35mpg, and be far and away the most important and valuable player on this years team.
Very happy for Adrien Stevens but a bit concerned that a frosh was one of the best players on the court yesterday and one of the best all summer... previous posters have mentioned a roster "loaded" with talent and if that's the case we need the cream to rise to the top in the next few months.
A bit concerned with Parham/DO combo. Many of us mentioned those as bonafide pieces and likely/possible starters for this season. My guess is that Shaka's toughest work for this season will be to get those two to reach their lofty potential- if they are as good as they can be the team reaches a different level.
It seems clear that Shaka really wants Zaide Lowery to take the next step to becoming a dude. He's said before that he was the main recruiter for Zaide and brought him to MU despite his staffs hesitation.
My guess is that a starting spot is his to lose.
SJ22/Chase/Zaide/Parham/BG starting 5 at seasons tip.
DO, Nigel, Stevens with major roles.
Caedin, Miletic, Clark, Tre, Phillips with work to do.
When does the portal open?
Maybe we can forfeit the season and rebuild for next year?
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on August 02, 2025, 09:21:47 AMA better coaching job than taking a projected 9th place to team to BE champs and winning National COY?
Sure, Jan.
Yes. Whether it's hind sight or not, we all know the level of talent that was on that team. Shaka did a great job that year, no doubt.
Quote from: DoctorV on August 02, 2025, 12:43:12 AMVery happy for Adrien Stevens but a bit concerned that a frosh was one of the best players on the court yesterday and one of the best all summer
I think it's fantastic that Shaka brought in a freshman who is good enough to compete at a high-major level.
I also think judging anything by what took place in a July scrimmage could be unwise, but I certainly hope that Stevens is a stud-to-be.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 02, 2025, 09:33:02 AMYes. Whether it's hind sight or not, we all know the level of talent that was on that team. Shaka did a great job that year, no doubt.
Holy hindsight, Batman!
You're discrediting Shaka's coaching job because a roster with zero projected NBA draft picks eventually produced four top 40 picks.
Now, for $64,000 and full control of the board, who was the Marquette head coach that developed those players?
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 02, 2025, 09:33:02 AMYes. Whether it's hind sight or not, we all know the level of talent that was on that team. Shaka did a great job that year, no doubt.
So if four guys turn into draft picks on this team and 2 are all Americans does that devalue Shaka's coaching job in the future?
Maybe they made the NBA because Shaka is really good at coaching?
...and its only the middle of summer.
A couple things about Doctor V's post earlier.
I don't remember Shaka took Zaide over opposition from the rest of the staff. I know Neill Barry watched him before he committed.
As far as being worried that Adrien Stevens was one of the best players in the scrimmage, Adrien is physically developed and is older than Josh Clark and Royce Parham.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on August 02, 2025, 10:42:01 AMHoly hindsight, Batman!
You're discrediting Shaka's coaching job because a roster with zero projected NBA draft picks eventually produced four top 40 picks.
Now, for $64,000 and full control of the board, who was the Marquette head coach that developed those players?
Shaka did a great job that year. No doubt.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 02, 2025, 12:48:07 PMSo if four guys turn into draft picks on this team and 2 are all Americans does that devalue Shaka's coaching job in the future?
He did a great job that year. Let's see how this talent plays out. Not seeing it yet. If there are four NBA players on this years team it will definitely be easier for Shaka to win. Chicken or the egg type of thing.
Growth is a program pillar.
Quote from: The Sultan on August 02, 2025, 01:08:04 PMMaybe they made the NBA because Shaka is really good at coaching?
Or they are really talented players as well. Confident Shaka would say the same thing.
I remember when TKo wasn't a PG, when Sean Jones was going to be handed the keys on day 1, all OMax could do was fall down, and Oso would never be a Big East center. 9th place finish upcoming.
Growth is a pillar.
Talent is a pillar as well. But I am not disputing that Shaka is a great coach.
There is talent. MU fans have been spoiled the last three season with MU only starting 8 players. Roster turnover is usually the one constant in college basketball. Young players stepping into new roles is the circle of life. Even the teams that hit the portal the hardest are going to have new players in new roles. That IS college basketball.
MU has a lot of interesting and talented pieces. When Shaka says there may be changes to the starting line up, I believe him. And not just because of injury. I still doubt it, but DuaneWade may have just been a season early in his call to start freshmen. We shall find out.
Schrodinger's cat. Right now, the season both sucks and is awesome.
I think this is a big dance team.
I agree with you. Roster turnover is a constant in college basketball. I think there is talent but I'm not convinced it is as high level as needed to make the tournament this year. But if the talent evaluation by Shaka is on point (to me the most important aspect of a college basketball coach, need NBA level talent to succeed) then he is a good enough coach to extract every bit of potential out it.
Going through rosters, I will say it's absolutely insane to see the levels of continuity at other programs. 5 of our 10* non-con opponents have 0-1 returning player that I expect to be in a 9-man rotation. Only two (Little Rock and Purdue) have more than 3 returning players in the top 9. How much of an advantage that is remains to be seen, but there are a lot of teams plugging in low and mid major guys that haven't done anything at this level or high major guys that haven't won at this level.
I also think people tend to ignore the defensive end. Chase and Zaide are both top-tier defenders. They are likely the best 1-2 defensive punch in the league. Sean is height-challenged, but has quick hands that create turnovers and has shown he's strong enough to hold position even when someone posts him up. And as maligned as Ben is, he's an incredibly solid defender. People only remember the Zuby games and forget how well he did against Derek Queen, TKR, Asa Newell, and Thomas Sorber. If Royce and DO have average sophomore year improvement on defense and James and Stevens are as ready to go as early reports indicate, we only need an average offense to be a tourney team.
Offensively, Ross, Gold, and Lowery are all hyper-efficient. Some guys will have to step up in terms of usage without losing too much efficiency, but projecting this as a tourney team feels like a pretty safe floor, IMO.
* Southern has not yet posted their 2025-26 roster, but at least 3 players that started 15+ games graduated and (at least) 3 more starter/rotation players transferred.
Preach.
I like it Rico, Tower and Brew. Hope you guys are absolutely spot on with your predictions that this is a tournament team.
With regard to defense, I think that will be a strength as well. That to me is where the coaching and continuity comes in above all else. That is the culture and identity of the program.
Will be curious to see who the alpha scorers are this year. The go to guys at the end of games. Are they limited offensively in this regard. Do they have a versatile scorer or two? Are there guys who can get their shots off in traffic? Zaide looked like he could last year but didn't do it enough. Chase, is a good straight line driver but doesn't seem to be able to get a shot off in traffic and isn't long enough to simply go over people. Owens could be Omax and dunk over people but TBD. Parham could be J Lewis but TBD. Ben needs to get out of his role player shell but not sure this will happen. Sean is lightning quick but is short and can get lost in the lane. Others have pointed out that he isn't a consistent shooter from the arc. I think his development is crucial to the teams success. So lots of question marks and i suppose that makes it fun.
Who are the bucket getters on this team?
Shaka said 'by committee'. So, that is still TBD.
Quote from: tower912 on August 03, 2025, 09:10:29 AMShaka said 'by committee'. So, that is still TBD.
Hope we get a horse and not a camel.
Quote from: tower912 on August 02, 2025, 07:32:12 PMThere is talent. MU fans have been spoiled the last three season with MU only starting 8 players. Roster turnover is usually the one constant in college basketball. Young players stepping into new roles is the circle of life. Even the teams that hit the portal the hardest are going to have new players in new roles. That IS college basketball.
MU has a lot of interesting and talented pieces. When Shaka says there may be changes to the starting line up, I believe him. And not just because of injury. I still doubt it, but DuaneWade may have just been a season early in his call to start freshmen. We shall find out.
Schrodinger's cat. Right now, the season both sucks and is awesome.
I think this is a big dance team.
I'll take a one and done team over not getting into the dance. As the observer I rather see a live Schrodinger's cat.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 03, 2025, 11:30:07 AMI'll take a one and done team over not getting into the dance. As the observer I rather see a live Schrodinger's cat.
Meh, not a cat person.
Quote from: tower912 on August 03, 2025, 11:31:11 AMMeh, not a cat person.
Well then, a live Golden Eagle. At the very least another game in Dayton would not be so bad.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 03, 2025, 08:54:50 AMI like it Rico, Tower and Brew. Hope you guys are absolutely spot on with your predictions that this is a tournament team.
With regard to defense, I think that will be a strength as well. That to me is where the coaching and continuity comes in above all else. That is the culture and identity of the program.
Will be curious to see who the alpha scorers are this year. The go to guys at the end of games. Are they limited offensively in this regard. Do they have a versatile scorer or two? Are there guys who can get their shots off in traffic? Zaide looked like he could last year but didn't do it enough. Chase, is a good straight line driver but doesn't seem to be able to get a shot off in traffic and isn't long enough to simply go over people. Owens could be Omax and dunk over people but TBD. Parham could be J Lewis but TBD. Ben needs to get out of his role player shell but not sure this will happen. Sean is lightning quick but is short and can get lost in the lane. Others have pointed out that he isn't a consistent shooter from the arc. I think his development is crucial to the teams success. So lots of question marks and i suppose that makes it fun.
Who are the bucket getters on this team?
Well, we know that Sean is willing to take the big shot. And we also know, in a very limited sample size, that he has been able to make a few of them, including arguably Marquette's most important basket of the 2023-24 regular season. Can he do similar in an expanded role?
Chase has hit some big shots, too, including in NCAA tournament games. In his previous role he wasn't asked to do so often, so it's fair to ask the same question about him in an expanded role.
But again, Shaka's second MU team entered the season with numerous question marks about who would be able to take and make the big shots. Though we hoped Kolek, Kam and OMax could, not a single one of them had proven any ability to do so before the season.
So we'll get to see in real time who the go-to guys are and who has improved the most. And you're right, that's part of the fun.
We Are Marquette!
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 03, 2025, 08:54:50 AMWho are the bucket getters on this team?
My money would be on Royce to lead us in scoring. He should get the minutes and is the most assertive returning offensive player. But I think that's probably a 13-14 ppg scoring leader rather than a Justin Lewis/Kam Jones type.
I could see Royce, Chase, Sean, Ben, & Zaide all between 10-14 ppg. We might even have a double digit sixth man in Owens. I'm guessing Sean or Chase takes that last second shot, and I'm good with that.
Ultimately, I really trust the system. We know that on offense we're going to be patient in the half court and work for high percentage looks at the rim or the arc. On defense, we're going to speed teams up, turn them over, and score in transition. While other teams are figuring out their rosters (Indiana, Maryland, Dayton) we'll be collecting resume wins.
And in terms of talent, there are maybe 4 teams at our level or better in the Big East. That gives me a lot of confidence going into the league. We may not have the star power of years past, but we still have a high floor.
Tough to win w/o Wojo's Warriors
Chase needs to emerge as the MAN. Part of that is health...his next fully healthy season will be his first. Hoping it happens.
Sean needs to stay healthy...hoping it happens.
We need contributions from the freshman guards. Hope it happens.
We need the usual YoY growth from everybody.
All of the above happens, we're dancing.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on August 03, 2025, 05:45:16 PMChase needs to emerge as the MAN. Part of that is health...his next fully healthy season will be his first. Hoping it happens.
Sean needs to stay healthy...hoping it happens.
We need contributions from the freshman guards. Hope it happens.
We need the usual YoY growth from everybody.
All of the above happens, we're dancing.
Are you ok? Threatened in anyway? Blink twice if we need to send help.
Quote from: tower912 on August 03, 2025, 05:46:53 PMAre you ok? Threatened in anyway? Blink twice if we need to send help.
lol. Vast majority of my eeyore posts were satirical...trying to feed the beast that is Scoop. I don't know if this team will be any good next year but obviously hoping for the best.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 03, 2025, 11:35:41 AMAt the very least another game in Dayton would not be so bad.
Not so bad? It'd be fucking awful. It's Dayton, Ohio. In an entire state loaded with lackluster cities, it's not even that conversation.
ABD.
I think seeing the development of our young players and seeing who acts as a leader with Jop and Kam gone is exciting.
Finding out who can get buckets/score is a big question for me. I'm a bit dubious as to Chase and Ben taking that next step after 3 years. Chase has a tough time in half court as his dribbling and shot are average. Ben is just plain limited to hitting the occasional three. So who is going to score for us? We are relying on mostly unproven players but there is upside with some of them as Royce and Zaide perhaps getting us 10+ a game.
When thinking about this roster and its strengths, maybe we play up to 9 or 10 guys and press on D. Try to wear the other team down while pushing the ball up the court to minimize half our court sets. The good coaches in the BE likely to pack the paint and force to shoot from the outside.
TKO and Omax were transfers before big NIL money arrived. Onus is on Shaka and his development strategy now for next 2 years. I am very curious to see how this plays out.
Like others I am in the ncaa bubble camp and maybe a .500 record. Our schedule is tough. Go Marquette!
While what you said about Kolek and Omax being transfers is true ... they weren't especially highly regarded transfers, they were only 1 year out of high school, and neither was considered anywhere near being an NBA prospect. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by including them here.
I do like your idea of pressing some more to create offense from defense. I don't think Shaka brings Havoc, but some more pressure might suit our roster.
As for who will be our go-to guys, the beautiful thing is that we'll get to see in real time!
Quote from: MU82 on August 05, 2025, 12:22:07 PMWhile what you said about Kolek and Omax being transfers is true ... they weren't especially highly regarded transfers, they were only 1 year out of high school, and neither was considered anywhere near being an NBA prospect. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by including them here.
Umm...Shaka should use the portal more to improve the team? Worked with those two, so...
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on August 05, 2025, 12:26:56 PMUmm...Shaka should use the portal more to improve the team? Worked with those two, so...
Thanks for explaining. I guess I didn't get that from the post.
What if Shaka believes that the level of freshmen he is bringing in now is better than the level of transfers he reasonably could buy?
Also, Shaka inherited a bad team in 2021 and had to quickly stock it. He now has a successful, established program that he has built piece-by-piece.
Nevertheless, I did say it would have been nice to have added a Jayce Johnson-type big for any of the past few seasons and/or a veteran PG for last season.
But I also trust the guy who has rebuilt our program and put us back on the national basketball map. Given the recruits we are now landing and what those kids are saying about Shaka's philosophy being a major reason they selected Marquette, I'm inclined to believe that he's doing things right.
Obviously, as always, we'll see.
Quote from: Captain Quette on August 05, 2025, 11:05:45 AMI think seeing the development of our young players and seeing who acts as a leader with Jop and Kam gone is exciting.
Finding out who can get buckets/score is a big question for me. I'm a bit dubious as to Chase and Ben taking that next step after 3 years. Chase has a tough time in half court as his dribbling and shot are average. Ben is just plain limited to hitting the occasional three. So who is going to score for us? We are relying on mostly unproven players but there is upside with some of them as Royce and Zaide perhaps getting us 10+ a game.
When thinking about this roster and its strengths, maybe we play up to 9 or 10 guys and press on D. Try to wear the other team down while pushing the ball up the court to minimize half our court sets. The good coaches in the BE likely to pack the paint and force to shoot from the outside.
TKO and Omax were transfers before big NIL money arrived. Onus is on Shaka and his development strategy now for next 2 years. I am very curious to see how this plays out.
Like others I am in the ncaa bubble camp and maybe a .500 record. Our schedule is tough. Go Marquette!
As MU82 said, I'm not sure why Kolek and OMax being transfers excludes them as proof of concept from the development strategy. Omax averaged 2.5 points and 9.7 minutes per game before he transferred.
Talent was identified and developed - those guys are perfect examples of it.
There are a lot of questions for this season - I am looking at it as a transition year, which could be fun. I still expect this to be a tourney team. Worst-case scenario is being a bubble team that comes up short.
The team should be longer and more athletic. I think it will be a good defensive team, especially with Ross, Lowery, Jones, and Stevens on the perimeter. Rebounding, as is tradition, will be a question. Big-man depth is a question.
As for offense, I don't disagree that is a question as well. As others have said, I don't expect there to be a dominant scorer like Kam. I'd expect it to be more balanced. If I had to choose a leading scorer it would be Royce. I also have more confidence in Chase continuing to develop than you seem to.
Ultimately, it comes down to how consistent guys can be with these new roles and responsibilities.
I expect a couple of guys to take big leaps. The question is who are they and can some additional guys surprise us like they did going into Shaka's 2nd season.
If you speak with any D1 college athletes, who are not 5 stars, they will likely tell you that the transition from high school hoops to college hoops is significantly hard. Physicality of college ball, mental toughness, grind of longer schedule, long daily schedule, academics - all much harder. Tko was already through his freshman year and rookie of the year in college conference. Omax played in an NBA development camp plus a year in the sec. Their development was way less risky compared to that of high school players coming into the program. To wit, look at our bench, perhaps 2-4 guys who may not belong in BE.
My overall point is that relying solely on the development of high school players is a much riskier proposition than mixing some tranfers onto the roster as well. And why I am curious to see how shaka's strategy plays out.
I am a fan of shaka and hope many of our players will make a "leap" in the off season.
Quote from: Captain Quette on August 05, 2025, 05:17:59 PMIf you speak with any D1 college athletes, who are not 5 stars, they will likely tell you that the transition from high school hoops to college hoops is significantly hard. Physicality of college ball, mental toughness, grind of longer schedule, long daily schedule, academics - all much harder. Tko was already through his freshman year and rookie of the year in college conference. Omax played in an NBA development camp plus a year in the sec. Their development was way less risky compared to that of high school players coming into the program. To wit, look at our bench, perhaps 2-4 guys who may not belong in BE.
My overall point is that relying solely on the development of high school players is a much riskier proposition than mixing some tranfers onto the roster as well. And why I am curious to see how shaka's strategy plays out.
I am a fan of shaka and hope many of our players will make a "leap" in the off season.
Thanks for going into more detail on this topic.
Marquette basketball is this era's great experiment. I'm right with you on hoping our lead scientist gets it right. Early returns are pretty solid, but time will tell.
Quote from: MU82 on August 05, 2025, 05:55:56 PMThanks for going into more detail on this topic.
Marquette basketball is this era's great experiment. I'm right with you on hoping our lead scientist gets it right. Early returns are pretty solid, but time will tell.
I was not sold on Shaka's approach, but I was stunned that over a third of those who entered the portal wound up nowhere. They would have been better staying at their current school as long as their scholarship was still honored. The athletes are people not a commodity to bid on.
"To wit, look at our bench, perhaps 2-4 guys who may not belong in BE."
If the above is true it's a black eye for Coach Smart, since these are all guys he recruited and brought to Marquette.
Perhaps you meant 2-4 guys who may not belong on a top 5 team in the BE?
Quote from: DoctorV on August 05, 2025, 09:59:24 PM"To wit, look at our bench, perhaps 2-4 guys who may not belong in BE."
If the above is true it's a black eye for Coach Smart, since these are all guys he recruited and brought to Marquette.
Perhaps you meant 2-4 guys who may not belong on a top 5 team in the BE?
No, Marquette has 3-4 players that couldn't get time in the WIAC
G-A-P
What a pile of crap. Every single team in every single conference has end of the bench players. So, to say that a 15 player roster has 2-4 players that may not contribute this season and that is a failing of the coach... play that back in your head a few times.
PARTICULARLY, when part of the plan is to red-shirt, develop, retain.
Quote from: tower912 on August 06, 2025, 06:44:21 AMWhat a pile of crap. Every single team in every single conference has end of the bench players. So, to say that a 15 player roster has 2-4 players that may not contribute this season and that is a failing of the coach... play that back in your head a few times.
PARTICULARLY, when part of the plan is to red-shirt, develop, retain.
G-A-P
Quote from: Captain Quette on August 05, 2025, 05:17:59 PMIf you speak with any D1 college athletes, who are not 5 stars, they will likely tell you that the transition from high school hoops to college hoops is significantly hard. Physicality of college ball, mental toughness, grind of longer schedule, long daily schedule, academics - all much harder. Tko was already through his freshman year and rookie of the year in college conference. Omax played in an NBA development camp plus a year in the sec. Their development was way less risky compared to that of high school players coming into the program. To wit, look at our bench, perhaps 2-4 guys who may not belong in BE.
Hold on. Do you think that those "2-4 guys who may not belong in (the) BE," should somehow be replaced by BE quality transfers? What transfer of that magnitude is going to want to come here and sit on the bench?
Quote from: tower912 on August 06, 2025, 06:44:21 AMWhat a pile of crap. Every single team in every single conference has end of the bench players. So, to say that a 15 player roster has 2-4 players that may not contribute this season and that is a failing of the coach... play that back in your head a few times.
PARTICULARLY, when part of the plan is to red-shirt, develop, retain.
Exactly.
Anyway, if you are going to make the argument that Shaka should be more active in the transfer market, it would not be because of the 2-4 bench players. It would be because of a hole within our current rotation.
Talk about failures, Shaka has walk ons that wouldn't start on any other big east team. Total failure.
Ben Gold couldn't even make the roster for the Open Practice.
Likely not a right or wrong answer here. Every team does have a few on the bench w limited upside. And when you recruit 3 and 4 star players, it's the nature of the business, some hit and misses. However, the pressure is on those 4 star recruits to make an impact. Minutes as frosh, rotation as soph, starter as junior. With not taking transfers, recruiting misses amplified as depth and overall talent on roster is tested.
With us, we have seen this approach impact our rebounding and inside presence. Other than Ben, I cannot think of a player over 6'8 on our team who has really helped us. Not much development w the Bigs. As to guards, think we need to see Lowrey make a jump and Norman do anything. Both were 4 star recruits if memory correct.
Not saying that team will be bad or not exciting, just have lowered expectations about a deep ncaa run.
Do we really have posters that have already forgotten about Oso?
It will definitely be a very interesting season. Very wide open, lots of roles that need to be filled. The overall raw talent on this team is undeniable. Shaka himself said this team needs to grow and improve a lot this off season.
Ross and Royce are going to lead this team in scoring. This team will play very fast, and success will initially come from our ability to turn the other team over and score quickly. As the season wears on, we will have to get better and more consistent in our half-court offense as that is where I feel is our biggest weakness.
I believe Ross, Zaide and Owens are the key to our season. We need all 3 to take that next big step.
Hoping for the best and a great year but won't be surprised if we struggle during stretches.
I'm hoping people are just forgetting that we can now have 15 scholarship players on our roster instead of 13 when they're making some of these comments. A "black eye for Coach Smart" if 2-4 guys aren't ready to play at a Big East level?
We had 11 scholarship players in 2022-2023. Two of them were Keeyan Itejere and Zach Wrightsil. Two others were freshman Sean Jones and Ben Gold, neither of who were ready to play at a Big East level.
All we did that year was win the BE regular season, BE Tournament, and get a 2 seed.
But yeah. Shaka didn't have 13 guys who could play at a BE level so, black eye.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 06, 2025, 09:55:16 AMDo we really have posters that have already forgotten about Oso?
Not me, my kids loved that show!
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZTcxYzBhM2YtODM1NC00NTI2LTk1MGUtZTJiMGU5NWVmYmMwXkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_.jpg)
Quote from: Captain Quette on August 06, 2025, 09:49:21 AMLikely not a right or wrong answer here. Every team does have a few on the bench w limited upside. And when you recruit 3 and 4 star players, it's the nature of the business, some hit and misses. However, the pressure is on those 4 star recruits to make an impact. Minutes as frosh, rotation as soph, starter as junior. With not taking transfers, recruiting misses amplified as depth and overall talent on roster is tested.
With us, we have seen this approach impact our rebounding and inside presence. Other than Ben, I cannot think of a player over 6'8 on our team who has really helped us. Not much development w the Bigs. As to guards, think we need to see Lowrey make a jump and Norman do anything. Both were 4 star recruits if memory correct.
Not saying that team will be bad or not exciting, just have lowered expectations about a deep ncaa run.
Other than Ben, we only have two other players on our roster that our taller than 6'8". One will be a redshirt freshman this year so he's never had the chance to help the team in games previously. The other will be a redshirt sophomore who I'm sure Shaka is hoping for significant improvement for. Pretty small sample size based on the criteria you set.
Royce is listed 6'8" so I didn't include him above but he certainly helped the team last season and has a solid chance to be our leading scorer this season.
Now, if the argument is that Shaka should have more tall dudes with more experience, that's a different conversation.
Buzz's 2012-13 team had 13 players on the roster. The bottom 4 in minutes - Dylan Flood, Jamal Ferguson, Jake Thomas and Steve Taylor - contributed next-to-nothing all season.
The next 2 fewest in minutes were Derrick Wilson and Juan Anderson; they also contributed precious little, though each had a moment or two.
So Buzz had 4 non-Big East-caliber players and 2 borderline-BE-caliber players on a team that went 26-9, won the regular-season title in a strong conference, and reached the NCAA Elite 8.
But yeah, the last 4 players on Shaka's bench are gonna drag us down this season.
13, 15 - it does not matter - there are very few teams that play more than 10 guys regularly, and when you get to conference and NCAA tournaments, that lineup even shrinks more. The only team I could ever seeing playing more than 10 guys is Duke, and that is because they sometimes have McDonalds All Americans sitting on the bench.
So I think we've established that it's normal across college basketball to have non-stars at the end of a team's bench.
Ideally, what you'd like to see is the guys who are getting little PT early in their careers improve, earn more minutes and get a bigger role in succeeding years. As was the case with ...
Oso
OMax (at Clemson)
Joplin
Stevie
Gold
Sacar
Juan
Davante
Etc etc etc
Even JFB had several games in which he barely played his first season at Marquette.
Naturally, because they aren't stars, it's unlikely that end-of-bench guys become significant contributors. That's the same for every team in the country.
Would MU be better with this lineup:
Play small
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Owens
Parham
Very athletic or can Ben actually play
Better then 7 points and 4 boards a game?
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 06, 2025, 03:18:10 PMWould MU be better with this lineup:
Play small
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Owens
Parham
Very athletic or can Ben actually play
Better then 7 points and 4 boards a game?
No, Ben is terrible and shouldn't see the court
How often does someone start every single game of their Junior year and then lose their staring spot their SR year (non-injury related)? The only one I can think of is Heldt, and I don't believe it has ever happened under Shaka. I anticipate that remaining true this season.
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 06, 2025, 03:18:10 PMWould MU be better with this lineup:
Play small
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Owens
Parham
Very athletic or can Ben actually play
Better then 7 points and 4 boards a game?
Would MU be better with this lineup:
Play smallQuote from: BCHoopster on August 06, 2025, 03:18:10 PMWould MU be better with this lineup:
Play small
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Owens
Parham
Very athletic or can Ben actually play
Better then 7 points and 4 boards a game?
Than.
No.
Why take last year's best defender, who also happens to be 6'11, off the floor? How does that make the team better?
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 06, 2025, 03:18:10 PMWould MU be better with this lineup:
Play small
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Owens
Parham
Very athletic or can Ben actually play
Better then 7 points and 4 boards a game?
You do realize that none of Zaide, Damarius, Royce, or Sean have ever averaged either 7 points or 4 rebounds per game in their careers, right?
Some of the stuff thrown around here is so unbelievably stupid.
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 06, 2025, 03:18:10 PMWould MU be better with this lineup:
Play small
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Owens
Parham
Very athletic or can Ben actually play
Better then 7 points and 4 boards a game?
Maybe you'll be lucky and Ben won't be allowed back in the country.
Summer nothing else to discuss
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 06, 2025, 03:42:28 PMHow often does someone start every single game of their Junior year and then lose their staring spot their SR year (non-injury related)? The only one I can think of is Heldt, and I don't believe it has ever happened under Shaka. I anticipate that remaining true this season.
..except those aren't the facts re: Heldt (assuming staring means starting).
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 06, 2025, 04:31:17 PMSummer nothing else to discuss
And we are discussing it.
Philosophically, I do not think a small, skinny, inexperienced line up is the right way to go in the Big East. The usual rebuttal is 'what about Buzz's midgets?' Which is fair, but they weren't young players. And a fair number ultimately saw time in the NBA.
This is going to be a young team with many players filling new roles. Removing size and stability from the line up doesn't work for me.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 06, 2025, 03:42:28 PMHow often does someone start every single game of their Junior year and then lose their staring spot their SR year (non-injury related)? The only one I can think of is Heldt, and I don't believe it has ever happened under Shaka. I anticipate that remaining true this season.
Not junior year but Duane Wilson went from starting 29->15->7 over three years.
Greg Elliot went from starting 5 junior year to only starting 1 senior year.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 06, 2025, 05:53:02 PMNot junior year but Duane Wilson went from starting 29->15->7 over three years.
Greg Elliot went from starting 5 junior year to only starting 1 senior year.
Coaching changes right?
Quote from: MU82 on August 06, 2025, 12:47:38 PMBuzz's 2012-13 team had 13 players on the roster. The bottom 4 in minutes - Dylan Flood, Jamal Ferguson, Jake Thomas and Steve Taylor - contributed next-to-nothing all season.
The next 2 fewest in minutes were Derrick Wilson and Juan Anderson; they also contributed precious little, though each had a moment or two.
So Buzz had 4 non-Big East-caliber players and 2 borderline-BE-caliber players on a team that went 26-9, won the regular-season title in a strong conference, and reached the NCAA Elite 8.
But yeah, the last 4 players on Shaka's bench are gonna drag us down this season.
*Teve
MUs listed height for Sean Joned is 5'10". So now I have become 6'3"
Quote from: willie warrior on August 06, 2025, 07:14:21 PMMUs listed height for Sean Joned is 5'10". So now I have become 6'3"
Your IQ?
Quote from: willie warrior on August 06, 2025, 07:14:21 PMMUs listed height for Sean Joned is 5'10". So now I have become 6'3"
Not to be confused with Seen Ramsey
Quote from: willie warrior on August 06, 2025, 07:14:21 PMMUs listed height for Sean Joned is 5'10". So now I have become 6'3"
Eh, Doc was listed as 6'4" which made me about 6'3 at the time.
Quote from: tower912 on August 06, 2025, 06:44:21 AMWhat a pile of crap. Every single team in every single conference has end of the bench players. So, to say that a 15 player roster has 2-4 players that may not contribute this season and that is a failing of the coach... play that back in your head a few times.
PARTICULARLY, when part of the plan is to red-shirt, develop, retain.
"To wit, look at our bench, perhaps 2-4 guys who may not belong in BE."
This wasn't my comment, but this comment says nothing about 'this season.'
It says that the team has 2-4 guys that do not belong in the BE Conference.
All I'm saying is that IF that is true, it is an indictment on Coach Smart and the rest of the coaches who recruit the players to Marquette.
It's really easy to get up in arms in defense of everything MUbb and Shaka, just as easy as it is to be a downer/pessimist about everything- as we very well know on this board. I'd rather one gets up in arms in defense of Shaka than the alternative...
That said, the tricky part is having open and honest dialogue about the good WITH the bad.
If we give Coach kudos for development and growth we must also point out shortcomings.
If the above comment is true and 2-4 guys on the current roster are not BE quality players in their careers then that is a shortcoming.
Even if coach gets them to become borderline serviceable BE type of guys by year 4.
You don't have to agree with me and Shaka knows what he's doing, so even if it was a shortcoming or "black eye" as I put it it's his black eye to own, he runs the show.
Perhaps he doesn't want 12 "BE quality" guys on the roster at all times?
I would hope he recruits BE quality guys and coaches them up to All Americans, as he already has. Or, recruits BE quality guys and they become useful 3rd and 4th year guys as he has time and time again.
My opinion? This years roster probably does have 2-3 non BE quality guys. Players don't leave coach Smart unless he asks them to for the most part, because he's a great guy and they buy into the vision he sets for them in the careers and futures.
The ones that go are the ones that are usually the non BE quality guys, and that's ok they can still be great young men with a solid future elsewhere.
I think we will know the answer next offseason.
Dr V, leaning your way. The top 4 players under shaka were tko, Kam Jones, omax, and oso. Tko and omax were transfers and shaka did not recruit/evaluate Jones or oso out of high school.
I look forward and am amped to see how shaka develops the players he recruited out of high school and how they play this year. Namely, Chase, Zaire, Owens, Norman, Hamilton, etc. Dhould be very fun, interesting year. Shaka's grand experiment front and center.
Quote from: Captain Quette on August 06, 2025, 09:43:11 PMDr V, leaning your way. The top 4 players under shaka were tko, Kam Jones, omax, and oso. Tko and omax were transfers and shaka did not recruit/evaluate Jones or oso out of high school.
I look forward and am amped to see how shaka develops the players he recruited out of high school and how they play this year. Namely, Chase, Zaire, Owens, Norman, Hamilton, etc. Dhould be very fun, interesting year. Shaka's grand experiment front and center.
Oso's final 3 were Marquette, Texas, and Stanford. Shaka was coaching Texas.
He also recruited Kolek and OMax to Marquette.
G-A-P
Quote from: wadesworld on August 06, 2025, 09:44:46 PMOso's final 3 were Marquette, Texas, and Stanford. Shaka was coaching Texas.
He also recruited Kolek and OMax to Marquette.
Yup.
Shaka also had to "re-recruit" Oso, Kam, Stevie, Lewis and Elliott, each of whom could have bolted and gone anywhere else. Oso and Lewis publicly said they considered doing just that, but Shaka convinced them to stay. Kam also said he assessed his "options" before deciding to stay. Thank goodness, Shaka is the kind of coach athletes want to play for.
When OMax transferred to Marquette, he was about as much of a "sure thing" as Tre Norman and Josh Clark were when they committed to Marquette.
Today, if Shaka signed a transfer with the kind of resume OMax had coming out of Clemson, some Scoopers would complain about Shaka foolishly giving a scholarship to one of the last 2-4 guys on the roster.
I'm just thankful for Keeyan, zach W and EE.
Quote from: Jay Bee on August 07, 2025, 02:22:40 PMI'm just thankful for Keeyan, zach W and EE.
I am, too. And I wish them well in their future endeavors. They have done no harm to me.
If he signs 2 more players someone will have to leave. At this point not sure the 2-4 kids you think are not BE ready. I only have one and that kid will be a senior next year, probably staying as MU NLI money is good. Taking 5 years is great for the player and his family.
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 07, 2025, 02:37:13 PMIf he signs 2 more players someone will have to leave. At this point not sure the 2-4 kids you think are not BE ready. I only have one and that kid will be a senior next year, probably staying as MU NLI money is good. Taking 5 years is great for the player and his family.
There's a stark difference between players that are not currently "Big East ready" vs. guys that may never reach that level.
For example, I'd be surprised if Miletic and Phillips are "Big East ready" this season. I'd be even more surprised if they don't become significant contributors down the road.
I think someone that bears the brunt of this going into the season is Tre. Yet, he decided to stay with no guarantee of playing time.
It's quite possible he ends up as a 5-15 MPG guy as a junior. If he and Shaka are ok if that ends up being his ceiling and he'd rather contribute in that manner and other ways for this program instead of moving down a level or two and playing more, I have no issues with that whatsoever.
Quote from: DoctorV on August 06, 2025, 08:59:23 PM"To wit, look at our bench, perhaps 2-4 guys who may not belong in BE."
This wasn't my comment, but this comment says nothing about 'this season.'
It says that the team has 2-4 guys that do not belong in the BE Conference.
All I'm saying is that IF that is true, it is an indictment on Coach Smart and the rest of the coaches who recruit the players to Marquette.
It's really easy to get up in arms in defense of everything MUbb and Shaka, just as easy as it is to be a downer/pessimist about everything- as we very well know on this board. I'd rather one gets up in arms in defense of Shaka than the alternative...
That said, the tricky part is having open and honest dialogue about the good WITH the bad.
If we give Coach kudos for development and growth we must also point out shortcomings.
If the above comment is true and 2-4 guys on the current roster are not BE quality players in their careers then that is a shortcoming.
Even if coach gets them to become borderline serviceable BE type of guys by year 4.
You don't have to agree with me and Shaka knows what he's doing, so even if it was a shortcoming or "black eye" as I put it it's his black eye to own, he runs the show.
Perhaps he doesn't want 12 "BE quality" guys on the roster at all times?
I would hope he recruits BE quality guys and coaches them up to All Americans, as he already has. Or, recruits BE quality guys and they become useful 3rd and 4th year guys as he has time and time again.
My opinion? This years roster probably does have 2-3 non BE quality guys. Players don't leave coach Smart unless he asks them to for the most part, because he's a great guy and they buy into the vision he sets for them in the careers and futures.
The ones that go are the ones that are usually the non BE quality guys, and that's ok they can still be great young men with a solid future elsewhere.
I think we will know the answer next offseason.
I am sure Shaka has a place where these young men can play. They're just not sent off to the portal and hope for the best.
Quote from: tower912 on August 07, 2025, 02:24:51 PMI am, too. And I wish them well in their future endeavors. They have done no harm to me.
Ditto. By all accounts, they worked hard (when healthy), were supportive of their teammates, and did what they could to make the team better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQgajm84wO0
Sean and Chase discuss their injury rehab, leadership, and the freshmen.
Thanks for posting, tower. My favorite quotes:
"Nigel James, Adrien Stevens ... real hawks, real hawks. Y'all will see!" - Sean
"His progress has been amazing." - Sean on Josh Clark
"He (Stevens) can be better than Stevie. NJ, hawk too. We've got a lot of defensive pressure out there." - Chase