There's been a major strike on Iranian nuclear facilities. And 3 scumbags have been introduced to darkness.
IBTL
Should have attacked the dental schools and brought peace and stability back to Iran
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 12, 2025, 11:03:34 PMThere's been a major strike on Iranian nuclear facilities. And 3 scumbags have been introduced to darkness.
The dog has been wagged
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 13, 2025, 06:20:28 AMThe dog has been wagged
How is Netanyahu not in jail? Anyway, this is what happens when America is a worldwide laughingstock
I thought this was going to be about World Cup qualifying.
Quote from: pbiflyer on June 13, 2025, 07:43:44 AMI thought this was going to be about World Cup qualifying.
I think a lot of awful people sort of see it as sport.
I just hope both teams have fun and no one gets hurt.
Israel v. Iran is big but it's not a Derby. Now Iran v. Iraq...that would get great ratings.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 13, 2025, 08:14:44 AMI think a lot of awful people sort of see it as sport.
People who are terminally online and largely invested in Middle East conflict on a superficial level cling to their "team" in a way that makes the sporting rivalry obsessions of the SEC and Viper vs UW look like friendly banter
Quote from: pbiflyer on June 13, 2025, 07:43:44 AMI thought this was going to be about World Cup qualifying.
Israel clearing real estate to build empty stadiums
Quote from: GB Warrior on June 13, 2025, 10:21:39 AMIsrael clearing real estate to build empty stadiums
Big, beautiful resorts
Quote from: Pakuni on June 13, 2025, 08:16:53 AMI just hope both teams have fun and no one gets hurt.
Too late for the Iran starting XI.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 13, 2025, 08:14:44 AMI think a lot of awful people sort of see it as sport.
"Game on"
wat duz simone biles think?
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 13, 2025, 01:23:26 PMwat duz simone biles think?
What does Riley Gaines think? Curious what someone that can't medal thinks
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 13, 2025, 01:26:25 PMWhat does Riley Gaines think? Curious what someone that can't medal thinks
C'mon now, she finished tied for 5th that one time in college. That's sorta close to medaling. What has Biles ever won?
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on June 13, 2025, 01:47:34 PMC'mon now, she finished tied for 5th that one time in college. That's sorta close to medaling. What has Biles ever won?
She's managed to grift her way pretty far in life, I'll give her that. But when you're grifting mouth breathers and transphobes, it's not that hard. America has a BIG market for all the -phobes
Iran has an aircraft carrier and Israel does not. Shaka should take note of Iran
But how is their midrange shooting?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 13, 2025, 01:26:25 PMWhat does Riley Gaines think? Curious what someone that can't medal thinks
If not for Lia Thomas, Riley would have finished 5th. But thanks to Lia, she finished 5th.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 13, 2025, 02:44:54 PMIran has an aircraft carrier and Israel does not. Shaka should take note of Iran
"aircraft carrier"
It's a repurposed cargo ship... certainly not a conventional aircraft carrier.
Basically, it's a walk on transfer aircraft carrier.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 13, 2025, 03:24:14 PM"aircraft carrier"
It's a repurposed cargo ship... certainly not a conventional aircraft carrier.
Basically, it's a walk on transfer aircraft carrier.
The IRIS Youssoupha Mbao
My brother and his wife live just outside Tel Aviv, which is now being bombed in retaliation.
Speaking of acting like this is a sport, the number of people online openly rooting for Iran, because they are mad at the US and/or hate Israel is truly disturbing and myopic. And not just Twitter eggs, notable/known people doing so.
You can think Israel is evil and genocidal and still realize Iran is ruled by maniacs who despise the West, its way of life, and would glass them if they could.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 14, 2025, 01:14:02 PMSpeaking of acting like this is a sport, the number of people online openly rooting for Iran, because they are mad at the US and/or hate Israel is truly disturbing and myopic. And not just Twitter eggs, notable/known people doing so.
You can think Israel is evil and genocidal and still realize Iran is ruled by maniacs who despise the West, its way of life, and would glass them if they could.
Yes, there are extremists everywhere - certainly online, which is a total cesspool for this kind of crud, but also many hiding in plain sight. (Or not even trying to hide.)
As for this latest situation, and the opinions about it, there are all kinds of issues at play. For one, Netanyahu is clearly in self-preservation mode, and even many in Israel believe there's a Wag The Dog feel to the attack on Iran. For another, we have U.S. leaders persecuting college students for "antisemitism" even as they kowtow to Jew-hating Middle East dictators who would love nothing more than to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. (Unfortunately for the students, they don't have "free" jets to give U.S. leaders.)
I obviously am not rooting for Iran, as they currently are bombing where my brother and sister-in-law live. Israel is our ally, and deserves to be able to survive and thrive as a nation.
As usual, it's a sh!tshow in that part of the world, and nobody really knows how to "fix" it.
Quote from: MU82 on June 14, 2025, 01:41:16 PMYes, there are extremists everywhere - certainly online, which is a total cesspool for this kind of crud, but also many hiding in plain sight. (Or not even trying to hide.)
As for this latest situation, and the opinions about it, there are all kinds of issues at play. For one, Netanyahu is clearly in self-preservation mode, and even many in Israel believe there's a Wag The Dog feel to the attack on Iran. For another, we have U.S. leaders persecuting college students for "antisemitism" even as they kowtow to Jew-hating Middle East dictators who would love nothing more than to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. (Unfortunately for the students, they don't have "free" jets to give U.S. leaders.)
I obviously am not rooting for Iran, as they currently are bombing where my brother and sister-in-law live. Israel is our ally, and deserves to be able to survive and thrive as a nation.
As usual, it's a sh!tshow in that part of the world, and nobody really knows how to "fix" it.
Didn't LIV fix it?
Liv Ullmann wouldn't do any worse.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 14, 2025, 01:14:02 PMSpeaking of acting like this is a sport, the number of people online openly rooting for Iran, because they are mad at the US and/or hate Israel is truly disturbing and myopic. And not just Twitter eggs, notable/known people doing so.
You can think Israel is evil and genocidal and still realize Iran is ruled by maniacs who despise the West, its way of life, and would glass them if they could.
JWags,
Lots of people are "rooting" for the Iranian regime. And they are not "extremists". They're virulent Israel haters and Jew haters. Not to mention, stupid. And if they actually do care about the Iranian people they should want Israel to take out the Mullahs and the entire regime.
Quote from: MU82 on June 14, 2025, 10:19:45 PMLiv Ullmann wouldn't do any worse.
Liv Tyler could significantly improve the situation. Man, I had such a crush on her in HS after that "Crazy" video
Liev Schreiber in 'Salt' is what the situation calls for.
Quote from: tower912 on June 15, 2025, 08:04:03 AMLiev Schreiber in 'Salt' is what the situation calls for.
What did he do?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 15, 2025, 07:48:29 AMJWags,
Lots of people are "rooting" for the Iranian regime. And they are not "extremists". They're virulent Israel haters and Jew haters. Not to mention, stupid. And if they actually do care about the Iranian people they should want Israel to take out the Mullahs and the entire regime.
Among those rooting against Israel (always): Dictators from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. In other words, the murderers that America's wannabe king recently fellated on the international stage so he could enrich his personal wealth and power.
Quote from: MU82 on June 15, 2025, 10:10:00 AMAmong those rooting against Israel (always): Dictators from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. In other words, the murderers that America's wannabe king recently fellated on the international stage so he could enrich his personal wealth and power.
For the love of God, shut the f*ck up with your politics. Can't we have a discussion about something like this without you pissing in the pool all the time?
Quote from: MU82 on June 15, 2025, 10:10:00 AMAmong those rooting against Israel (always): Dictators from Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
Nope.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 15, 2025, 11:05:32 AMNope.
Hmmm.
Only a few hours after Israel's early morning attack on Iran, the Saudi Foreign Ministry voiced its opinion. "The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia expresses its strong condemnation and denunciation of the blatant Israeli aggressions against the brotherly Islamic Republic of Iran," it said in a statement.
In November 2024, after just over a year of the Israeli offensive, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman accused Israel of committing genocide at a summit of Arab and Muslim leaders in Riyadh.
https://www.dw.com/en/gulf-states-anxious-about-being-drawn-into-israel-iran-fight/a-72902889
Qatar, a hereditary monarchy, has long pursued a foreign policy shaped by its ideological alignment with Islamist movements. It has provided political and financial support to groups such as Hamas, al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Al Nusra Front, Al Shabaab, and ISIS. Doha has hosted senior leaders from these organizations, including top Hamas officials and Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a cleric who justified suicide bombings against Israelis. The Qatar-based International Union of Muslim Scholars has issued religious rulings calling for jihad against Israel.
But Qatar also has tried to play both sides, acting friendly with Israel when it suits them.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israel-international-relations-israel-qatar-relations
I'm quite confident saying that leaders of both Saudi Arabia and Qatar would be thrilled if all the infidel Jews and their genocidal Israeli state ceased to exist.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 15, 2025, 07:48:29 AMJWags,
Lots of people are "rooting" for the Iranian regime. And they are not "extremists". They're virulent Israel haters and Jew haters. Not to mention, stupid. And if they actually do care about the Iranian people they should want Israel to take out the Mullahs and the entire regime.
I don't know of anyone "rooting" for the Iranian regime. Even those who are against Israel for its actions in Gaza aren't "rooting" for the Iranian regime. I would suspect most are in favor of a regime change in both Iran and Israel (maybe even the population of both countries). That may be how we get to more stability in the region.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on June 15, 2025, 11:41:26 AMI don't know of anyone "rooting" for the Iranian regime. Even those who are against Israel for its actions in Gaza aren't "rooting" for the Iranian regime. I would suspect most are in favor of a regime change in both Iran and Israel (maybe even the population of both countries). That may be how we get to more stability in the region.
Netanyahu is a war criminal.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 15, 2025, 11:05:32 AMNope.
Longtime friend and close ally of Iran... ::checks notes:: Saudi Arabia.
Quote from: MU82 on June 15, 2025, 11:34:59 AMHmmm.
Only a few hours after Israel's early morning attack on Iran, the Saudi Foreign Ministry voiced its opinion. "The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia expresses its strong condemnation and denunciation of the blatant Israeli aggressions against the brotherly Islamic Republic of Iran," it said in a statement.
In November 2024, after just over a year of the Israeli offensive, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman accused Israel of committing genocide at a summit of Arab and Muslim leaders in Riyadh.
https://www.dw.com/en/gulf-states-anxious-about-being-drawn-into-israel-iran-fight/a-72902889
Qatar, a hereditary monarchy, has long pursued a foreign policy shaped by its ideological alignment with Islamist movements. It has provided political and financial support to groups such as Hamas, al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Al Nusra Front, Al Shabaab, and ISIS. Doha has hosted senior leaders from these organizations, including top Hamas officials and Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a cleric who justified suicide bombings against Israelis. The Qatar-based International Union of Muslim Scholars has issued religious rulings calling for jihad against Israel.
But Qatar also has tried to play both sides, acting friendly with Israel when it suits them.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israel-international-relations-israel-qatar-relations
I'm quite confident saying that leaders of both Saudi Arabia and Qatar would be thrilled if all the infidel Jews and their genocidal Israeli state ceased to exist.
#ignoringsunnivsshiatomakeapointabouttrump
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 15, 2025, 12:33:33 PMLongtime friend and close ally of Iran... ::checks notes:: Saudi Arabia.
(https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/spiceworks/original/4X/6/f/b/6fb8954b3885eab08a0f911bf0b87e0186c83c3a.gif)
Quote from: MU82 on June 15, 2025, 11:34:59 AMI'm quite confident saying that leaders of both Saudi Arabia and Qatar would be thrilled if all the infidel Jews and their genocidal Israeli state ceased to exist.
That's not what you said.
You said they are "rooting" against Israel. They aren't. The Saudis and Iranians have a long history of enmity and have had proxy battles across the Middle East.
The Saudis may not be fans of Israel, but they much prefer Israel to a nuclear Iran. They'd like it even more if Israel rid the world of the Iranian mullahs.
What's so bad about Iran?
Personally, I'm an evangelical and dream of a theocracy. Say what you will about them, but they get a lot right
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on June 15, 2025, 11:41:26 AMI don't know of anyone "rooting" for the Iranian regime. Even those who are against Israel for its actions in Gaza aren't "rooting" for the Iranian regime. I would suspect most are in favor of a regime change in both Iran and Israel (maybe even the population of both countries). That may be how we get to more stability in the region.
You would think that, but there's a sizeable minority that's vehemently anti-Israel and antisemitic. Regardless of policy decisions there. And frankly suggesting they're only extremists is simply untrue. So while they may want regime change in Iran, that's not as high on their list as the destruction of Israel.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 15, 2025, 03:02:14 PManti-Israel and antisemitic.
These are not synonymous.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 15, 2025, 03:34:12 PMThese are not synonymous.
I didn't write they were synonymous.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 15, 2025, 03:51:38 PMI didn't write they were synonymous.
Well you went from "lots of people" to "sizable minority" pretty quick. I would also contest sizable minority. I'm not the end all and be all on this but I personally have not heard anyone - ANYONE - rooting for the Iranian regime. I also didn't suggest anyone who is rooting for the Iranian regime is an extremist but I wouldn't disagree with that characterization. Lastly, I do not know who the "they" refers to in your last sentence.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on June 15, 2025, 04:06:25 PMWell you went from "lots of people" to "sizable minority" pretty quick. I would also contest sizable minority. I'm not the end all and be all on this but I personally have not heard anyone - ANYONE - rooting for the Iranian regime. I also didn't suggest anyone who is rooting for the Iranian regime is an extremist but I wouldn't disagree with that characterization. Lastly, I do not know who the "they" refers to in your last sentence.
You didn't. But many do.
Lots of people is a sizable minority.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 15, 2025, 12:43:54 PMThat's not what you said.
You said they are "rooting" against Israel. They aren't. The Saudis and Iranians have a long history of enmity and have had proxy battles across the Middle East.
The Saudis may not be fans of Israel, but they much prefer Israel to a nuclear Iran. They'd like it even more if Israel rid the world of the Iranian mullahs.
Fair enough. Ish.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 14, 2025, 01:14:02 PMSpeaking of acting like this is a sport, the number of people online openly rooting for Iran, because they are mad at the US and/or hate Israel is truly disturbing and myopic. And not just Twitter eggs, notable/known people doing so.
You can think Israel is evil and genocidal and still realize Iran is ruled by maniacs who despise the West, its way of life, and would glass them if they could.
I'm not rooting for anyone since war is bad. But you can't just say this sort of thing because you've heard it a thousand times.
Israel attacked another country, completely unprovoked. We've been hearing for decades that Iran is "days" or "weeks" away from getting a nuclear weapon. If that has always been the case, then we probably need to ask ourselves why are they only being attacked last week? Was there actually a tangible threat to Israel, or was it merely the next thing the current Israeli government wanted to do to remain in power?
I don't disagree with the fact that Iran's government isn't great, but they were not the aggressors here. If anyone has the right to defend themselves in this situation, it's Iran.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 16, 2025, 06:22:18 AMI'm not rooting for anyone since war is bad. But you can't just say this sort of thing because you've heard it a thousand times.
Israel attacked another country, completely unprovoked. We've been hearing for decades that Iran is "days" or "weeks" away from getting a nuclear weapon. If that has always been the case, then we probably need to ask ourselves why are they only being attacked last week? Was there actually a tangible threat to Israel, or was it merely the next thing the current Israeli government wanted to do to remain in power?
I don't disagree with the fact that Iran's government isn't great, but they were not the aggressors here. If anyone has the right to defend themselves in this situation, it's Iran.
They didn't "attack another country".
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 07:40:02 AMThey didn't "attack another country".
Sure they did. Israel launched a surprise attack on Iran on the 13th of June. The day you started this thread.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 07:40:02 AMThey didn't "attack another country".
There's a lot of room for disagreement in this conflict, but this is an insane take.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 16, 2025, 06:22:18 AMI'm not rooting for anyone since war is bad. But you can't just say this sort of thing because you've heard it a thousand times.
Israel attacked another country, completely unprovoked. We've been hearing for decades that Iran is "days" or "weeks" away from getting a nuclear weapon. If that has always been the case, then we probably need to ask ourselves why are they only being attacked last week? Was there actually a tangible threat to Israel, or was it merely the next thing the current Israeli government wanted to do to remain in power?
I don't disagree with the fact that Iran's government isn't great, but they were not the aggressors here. If anyone has the right to defend themselves in this situation, it's Iran.
Devil's advocate, if Israel knew 100% without a doubt, that Iran was funding and arming every rebel/Islamic militant group that is regularly attacking and attempting to kill Israeli citizens, is it still unprovoked?
And why now? I absolutely think there is some element of Netanyahu playing to CYA and divert attention. But also, by all accounts, this was a multi-year operation with tons of spycraft, logistic building, and movement tracking all within Iran, to develop the foundation of the attack. Its not like Israel woke up one day and decided to aggressively fire a few ICBM's into Iran from the Levant.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 16, 2025, 06:22:18 AMI don't disagree with the fact that Iran's government isn't great, but they were not the aggressors here. If anyone has the right to defend themselves in this situation, it's Iran.
Ive never argued that they don't. I certainly wouldn't expect Iran to just sit and take the aggression. But that being said, again, the Ayatollah and the mullahs despise everything the United States stands for, and not just Trump/MAGA or the current political climate, pick the most admirable/idealistic version of the US in the last 75 years and they still despise it. Thats who people are cheering for out of pure spite and hatred of Israel and tribalism of the day. Its not some veneration of the Iranian people or their well being.
The same people who were loudly cheering and protesting the uprising in Iran a few years ago when advocates and protestors went missing/were killed...are now cheering for that same government and military cause they don't like Israel.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 16, 2025, 10:59:17 AMDevil's advocate, if Israel knew 100% without a doubt, that Iran was funding and arming every rebel/Islamic militant group that is regularly attacking and attempting to kill Israeli citizens, is it still unprovoked?
And why now? I absolutely think there is some element of Netanyahu playing to CYA and divert attention. But also, by all accounts, this was a multi-year operation with tons of spycraft, logistic building, and movement tracking all within Iran, to develop the foundation of the attack. Its not like Israel woke up one day and decided to aggressively fire a few ICBM's into Iran from the Levant.
And that's fine, but it wasn't the reason they gave.
QuoteIve never argued that they don't. I certainly wouldn't expect Iran to just sit and take the aggression. But that being said, again, the Ayatollah and the mullahs despise everything the United States stands for, and not just Trump/MAGA or the current political climate, pick the most admirable/idealistic version of the US in the last 75 years and they still despise it. Thats who people are cheering for out of pure spite and hatred of Israel and tribalism of the day. Its not some veneration of the Iranian people or their well being.
The same people who were loudly cheering and protesting the uprising in Iran a few years ago when advocates and protestors went missing/were killed...are now cheering for that same government and military cause they don't like Israel.
Iran has good reason to dislike the USA, we sort of overthrew their democratically elected government in 1953 and installed a puppet.
And anyone cheering for one side or the other is ghoulish. There are no good actors here, and only death will come from all of this. Many innocent civilians have already paid with their lives.
Plus, I am fairly confident that the US is about to get dragged into this mess.
At the end of the day it's the innocent civilians of the involved and surrounding nations that will be paying the biggest price for factors out of their control.
Both Iran and Israel are gorgeous parts of the world and it's a damn shame how the past 100 years have had the people in the region been treated as no better than cattle, cynical bargaining chips, and outright cannon fodder.
I hope to someday be able to see Tehran with my own eyes, as well as places like Damascus, Jerusalem, etc.
you simply cannot have street food of that caliber locked away from me!
IMHO the legacy of this will be just another case of the West punching itself in the dick vis-a-vis Iran. The Iranian population is probably among the most heterogenous in the middle east, and among the most fertile ground to encourage democratic values. But the Ayatollah's regime is just too tempting a target for Western leaders to resist, and every 10 years or so someone makes a hamfisted show to make political hay, bolsters the case of the religious conservatives, and sets the whole project back again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
My Israeli brother suffered a major heart incident and a stroke in early April and has been in Tel Aviv medical facilities since (he's in long-term rehab now). He is recovering, albeit slowly. His wife posted this on our family chat yesterday:
"He is well aware of the war, and he said that he had heard all the warning alarms and sirens. He didn't have to be moved to a shelter, at least not yet, but I am pleased that his bed isn't by the window - in his state, he doesn't need to see bombs going off and all the smoke."
Just thought maybe folks would appreciate a real face being put on this situation, which is yet another Middle East sh!tshow.
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 16, 2025, 12:49:02 PMIMHO the legacy of this will be just another case of the West punching itself in the dick vis-a-vis Iran. The Iranian population is probably among the most heterogenous in the middle east, and among the most fertile ground to encourage democratic values. But the Ayatollah's regime is just too tempting a target for Western leaders to resist, and every 10 years or so someone makes a hamfisted show to make political hay, bolsters the case of the religious conservatives, and sets the whole project back again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I've read multiple times over the last couple years that the Iranian people overwhelmingly hate the ruling religious group but don't know how to push out of control.
They could put on police uniforms and go door to door in the middle of the night.
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 16, 2025, 12:49:02 PMIMHO the legacy of this will be just another case of the West punching itself in the dick vis-a-vis Iran. The Iranian population is probably among the most heterogenous in the middle east, and among the most fertile ground to encourage democratic values. But the Ayatollah's regime is just too tempting a target for Western leaders to resist, and every 10 years or so someone makes a hamfisted show to make political hay, bolsters the case of the religious conservatives, and sets the whole project back again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
This sounds terribly naive. How do you think the west can "encourage democratic values" when the state is being run by a religious dictatorship?
now this is amusing:
https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/1934629371626901679
Quote from: The Sultan on June 16, 2025, 02:03:32 PMThis sounds terribly naive. How do you think the west can "encourage democratic values" when the state is being run by a religious dictatorship?
Polls consistently show the Iranian people are far more moderate and open to the West, including democratic values, than the religious dictatorship. They also show that most Iranians disapprove of the religious dictatorship and blame it for the country's problems.
The mullahs have all the guns right now, but history shows that you can only retain power at the end of a muzzle for so long when the populace holds you - not your "enemies" - responsible for their struggles. Just ask the Soviets.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 16, 2025, 02:03:32 PMThis sounds terribly naive. How do you think the west can "encourage democratic values" when the state is being run by a religious dictatorship?
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 16, 2025, 09:12:43 AMThere's a lot of room for disagreement in this conflict, but this is an insane take.
Excuse me, but targetting nuclear facilities, and specific scumbag terrorist despots, is not the same as 'attacking a country". You're more upset about this than Oct 7th and when innocent kids were killed on a soccer field in Israel. There is zero moral equivalency. If Israel truly wanted to attack Iran they could cause MAMMOTH damage unlike anything we've seen since WW2.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 06:23:19 PMExcuse me, but targetting nuclear facilities, and specific scumbag terrorist despots, is not the same as 'attacking a country". You're more upset about this than Oct 7th and when innocent kids were killed on a soccer field in Israel. There is zero moral equivalency. If Israel truly wanted to attack Iran they could cause MAMMOTH damage unlike anything we've seen since WW2.
Innocent kids are being killed daily in Gaza by a war criminal, Benjamin Netanyahu. You're awfully quiet about that
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 06:23:19 PMExcuse me, but targetting nuclear facilities, and specific scumbag terrorist despots, is not the same as 'attacking a country". You're more upset about this than Oct 7th and when innocent kids were killed on a soccer field in Israel. There is zero moral equivalency. If Israel truly wanted to attack Iran they could cause MAMMOTH damage unlike anything we've seen since WW2.
Muggsy I noticed you haven't denounced the Wilmington Insurrection of 1898 in any of your posts. It feels like you're more upset about a war in a foreign country than white supremacy domestically.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 16, 2025, 02:36:25 PMPolls consistently show the Iranian people are far more moderate and open to the West, including democratic values, than the religious dictatorship. They also show that most Iranians disapprove of the religious dictatorship and blame it for the country's problems.
The mullahs have all the guns right now, but history shows that you can only retain power at the end of a muzzle for so long when the populace holds you - not your "enemies" - responsible for their struggles. Just ask the Soviets.
100%. The Mullahs are utter filth and their destiny should be immediate darkness. Once you remove them from earth, there are all sorts of possibilities. It would be challenging, but the fact is the vast majority of Iranian people would welcome new leadership.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 16, 2025, 06:29:25 PMMuggsy I noticed you haven't denounced the Wilmington Insurrection of 1898 in any of your posts. It feels like you're more upset about a war in a foreign country than white supremacy domestically.
And I've noticed that no one mentioned the young Jewish couple murdered at the embassy in D.C. What the F is your point? We're talking about current events. I denounce all terrorist dirtbags.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 16, 2025, 06:27:22 PMInnocent kids are being killed daily in Gaza by a war criminal, Benjamin Netanyahu. You're awfully quiet about that
Netanyahu is not targeting children in Gaza, and what you're saying is factually incorrect. Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc, etc, is the reason things are fked up. Israel isn't the problem regardless of Netanyahu's issues. Iranian leadership and their proxies is the problem.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 06:36:50 PMNetanyahu is not targeting children in Gaza, and what you're saying is factually incorrect. Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc, etc, is the reason things are fked up. Israel isn't the problem regardless of Netanyahu's issues. Iranian leadership and their proxies is the problem.
Yes, he is targeting children in Gaza. He is a war criminal.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 06:23:19 PMExcuse me, but targetting nuclear facilities, and specific scumbag terrorist despots, is not the same as 'attacking a country". You're more upset about this than Oct 7th and when innocent kids were killed on a soccer field in Israel. There is zero moral equivalency. If Israel truly wanted to attack Iran they could cause MAMMOTH damage unlike anything we've seen since WW2.
YOU STARTED A THREAD TITLED ISRAEL VS IRAN YOU LOON
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 16, 2025, 06:38:16 PM7
Yes, he is targeting children in Gaza. He is a war criminal.
I realize that you think Netanyahu, Trump, and G.W. Bush are war criminals and worse than Hilter, Stalin, Putin, and the Mullahs.
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 16, 2025, 06:45:34 PMYOU STARTED A THREAD TITLED ISRAEL VS IRAN YOU LOON
It was just a thread title. Everyone needs to calm down. I should have stated Iranian fkbag leaders in lieu of Iran.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 06:47:02 PMI realize that you think Netanyahu, Trump, and G.W. Bush are war criminals and worse than Hilter, Stalin, Putin, and the Mullahs.
No, Netanyahu is not worse than Stalin, Putin or the Mullahs, but he is a war criminal. He's also wildly unpopular in Israel and using this crisis to avert jail time. He's both a war criminal and also a standard criminal. The Israeli people deserve far better than him as their leader.
My views are nowhere near the majority, but nothing has changed my mind regarding what should have been done to Iranian leadership and Putin within weeks after Ukraine and Israel were attacked.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 16, 2025, 06:22:18 AMIsrael attacked another country, completely unprovoked.
Excuse me, but are you on planet Earth?????
From where do you think Hamas and Hezbollah are supplied? Just exactly what do you think "from the river to the sea" means? If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, to whom do you think will be the recipient of all that research and development?
When we were attached on 9/11, do you think we should have said, "oh, they weren't flying a flag, let's just ignore it and hope it goes away?"
Israel has been attacked over and over again by Iran's proxies in the region. No, the Ayatollahs have been fortunate enough to get someone else to do their dirty work. The Israelis aren't stupid -- they know. They're not going to sit back and let their citizenry be killed by terrorists funded by Iran. Any more than we would have taken a pass on going after the idiots that attacked us on 9/11.
Give the Israelis credit -- they're slick in how they go after Iran. They really are. They need to be if they intend to survive.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 16, 2025, 07:34:37 PMExcuse me, but are you on planet Earth?????
From where do you think Hamas and Hezbollah are supplied? Just exactly what do you think "from the river to the sea" means? If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, to whom do you think will be the recipient of all that research and development?
When we were attached on 9/11, do you think we should have said, "oh, they weren't flying a flag, let's just ignore it and hope it goes away?"
Israel has been attacked over and over again by Iran's proxies in the region. No, the Ayatollahs have been fortunate enough to get someone else to do their dirty work. The Israelis aren't stupid -- they know. They're not going to sit back and let their citizenry be killed by terrorists funded by Iran. Any more than we would have taken a pass on going after the idiots that attacked us on 9/11.
Give the Israelis credit -- they're slick in how they go after Iran. They really are. They need to be if they intend to survive.
It amazes me brother dgies how many people seem to be living in la-la land.
1. "from the river to the sea" means Palestinians living with the same freedom and rights as Israelis in the same geographic region
2. On March 25, Tulsi gabbard - director of national intelligence - testified that all intelligence evidence to date indicates Iran is not building a nuclear weapon.
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 16, 2025, 08:11:23 PM"from the river to the sea" means Palestinians living with the same freedom and rights as Israelis in the same geographic region
No, it doesn't.
https://theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mideast-region-and-1819594296/
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 16, 2025, 08:12:00 PMhttps://theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mideast-region-and-1819594296/
Bob makes some excellent points
Quote from: Pakuni on June 16, 2025, 02:36:25 PMPolls consistently show the Iranian people are far more moderate and open to the West, including democratic values, than the religious dictatorship. They also show that most Iranians disapprove of the religious dictatorship and blame it for the country's problems.
The mullahs have all the guns right now, but history shows that you can only retain power at the end of a muzzle for so long when the populace holds you - not your "enemies" - responsible for their struggles. Just ask the Soviets.
Lots of words. Never answered the question.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 16, 2025, 08:26:08 PMLots of words. Never answered the question.
Are you under the impression that Iranians don't access to the internet and Western media?
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 16, 2025, 08:11:23 PM1. "from the river to the sea" means Palestinians living with the same freedom and rights as Israelis in the same geographic region
bruh, dafuq?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 07:26:45 PMMy views are nowhere near the majority, but nothing has changed my mind regarding what should have been done to Iranian leadership and Putin within weeks after Ukraine and Israel were attacked.
Ok, I'll play. What do you think should have happened to Putin, and who was supposed to have made it happen?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 16, 2025, 10:24:51 PMAre you under the impression that Iranians don't access to the internet and Western media?
Post number two not answering the question.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 16, 2025, 07:34:37 PMExcuse me, but are you on planet Earth?????
From where do you think Hamas and Hezbollah are supplied? Just exactly what do you think "from the river to the sea" means? If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, to whom do you think will be the recipient of all that research and development?
When we were attached on 9/11, do you think we should have said, "oh, they weren't flying a flag, let's just ignore it and hope it goes away?"
Israel has been attacked over and over again by Iran's proxies in the region. No, the Ayatollahs have been fortunate enough to get someone else to do their dirty work. The Israelis aren't stupid -- they know. They're not going to sit back and let their citizenry be killed by terrorists funded by Iran. Any more than we would have taken a pass on going after the idiots that attacked us on 9/11.
Give the Israelis credit -- they're slick in how they go after Iran. They really are. They need to be if they intend to survive.
Yes. I'm on planet earth. You're not seriously this stupid, are you?
The state of Israel was created from nothing 75+ years ago on land taken from the native people by people who didn't live there! Since that time, those same people have been displaced, harassed, and systemically erased. And the Western world allows it an supplies the destruction of these same people. Can you blame them for creating an armed resistance?
We've been told for literal DECADES that Iran is months, weeks or days away from a nuclear weapon, and yet, in all that time... no nuke. Kind of strange, isn't it? Even our current Director of National Intelligence is quote as saying, "(The intelligence community) continues to assess Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and Supreme Leader Khamenei has not authorized a nuclear weapons program that he suspended in 2003."
The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, and Lebanon. Fifteen were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt, and one from Lebanon. The KSA is our ALLY, and nothing happened to them. Instead, we invaded Iraq. Worked out great. Remember that? Wasn't a total boondoggle that cost hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars. Oh, it was.
The Israeli government and its military commit war crime after war crime, including tens of thousands of innocent children killed, journalists murdered, and the systemic starvation of millions. And you cheer. You call them slick in their methods.
That's disgusting behavior, and if the roles were reversed (Israeli Jew for Israeli Arab) I can promise that you and a ton of others would be horrified. Your comments are unbecoming of a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Quote from: MU82 on June 17, 2025, 12:57:42 AMOk, I'll play. What do you think should have happened to Putin, and who was supposed to have made it happen?
Many people forget Russia was our ally in WWII. Nobody talks about that.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 17, 2025, 01:50:54 AMPost number two not answering the question.
I did, but you're being purposely obtuse. At least I hope purposely.
Quote from: MU82 on June 17, 2025, 12:57:42 AMOk, I'll play. What do you think should have happened to Putin, and who was supposed to have made it happen?
Let's just say the 5 point plan covers this. It would not be pretty for Putin. What a piece of garbage.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 07:39:26 AMLet's just say the 5 point plan covers this. It would not be pretty for Putin. What a piece of garbage.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 06, 2024, 09:02:49 PM
So when you said "everything would be on the table" and "attack with zero hesitation and they would surrender immediately" you weren't stating that you would be okay with open war against Russia?
Muggsy's reply:
I'm not concerned with Putin's ability to counterattack to be blunt.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 17, 2025, 08:18:20 AMQuote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 06, 2024, 09:02:49 PM
So when you said "everything would be on the table" and "attack with zero hesitation and they would surrender immediately" you weren't stating that you would be okay with open war against Russia?
Muggsy's reply:
I'm not concerned with Putin's ability to counterattack to be blunt.
Correct.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 08:28:19 AMCorrect.
Russia is estimated to possess around 5,580 nuclear warheads, according to the Federation of American Scientists. This includes both deployed and non-deployed warheads. Approximately 1,710 are believed to be deployed on strategic delivery systems like missiles and bombers, while others are held in storage or are awaiting dismantlement
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 17, 2025, 08:43:58 AMRussia is estimated to possess around 5,580 nuclear warheads, according to the Federation of American Scientists. This includes both deployed and non-deployed warheads. Approximately 1,710 are believed to be deployed on strategic delivery systems like missiles and bombers, while others are held in storage or are awaiting dismantlement
The underpants gnomes will handle that
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 07:39:26 AMLet's just say the 5 point plan covers this. It would not be pretty for Putin. What a piece of garbage.
But he's a hero and a great man to people on your side.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 16, 2025, 02:03:32 PMThis sounds terribly naive. How do you think the west can "encourage democratic values" when the state is being run by a religious dictatorship?
I'll admit I was coming at that comment from more of a "do no harm" standpoint - e.g. don't include Iran in your axis of evil SoTU speach because you've got a forever war to defend and everyone knows axes need to have three countries. So you raise a good practical point. I'll give you something between "brilliant" and "terribly naive" in that I'm no expert in covert ops to sow discontent and support opposition, but the Mahsa Amini protests showed there is a lot to work with on the ground. Maybe Western powers already are offering quiet but meaningful support to opposition voices, but I think we'd be a lot further along if Western politicians weren't so anxious to score easy political points with bellicose anti-Iranian rhetoric.
That being said, I do think there is a low, but not insignificant chance that Iran shows itself totally incapable of a meaningful military response here, and the realization of that weakness is a contributing factor to regime change. I'm just pessimistic that Netanyahu is sufficiently committed to the bit, rather than hoping to score a few easy points. (Or maybe he's way too committed and wont stop until he achieves regime change, no matter the cost, to save his own skin? Idk, either way he's far from a trustworthy actor here and that's an unwelcome complication.)
Quote from: Jockey on June 17, 2025, 11:02:51 AMBut he's a hero and a great man to people on your side.
Someone called him a "savvy genius" for taking strategic parts of Ukraine in 2014.
Note to Rocky: I did not
name anyone.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 07:39:26 AMLet's just say the 5 point plan covers this. It would not be pretty for Putin.
So ... nothing. Thanks for confirming.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 17, 2025, 07:07:53 AMI did, but you're being purposely obtuse. At least I hope purposely.
You did not.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 17, 2025, 11:54:15 AMSomeone called him a "savvy genius" for taking strategic parts of Ukraine in 2014.
Note to Rocky: I did not name anyone.
A lot of people don't like Putin but I admire the way he handles political opponents. Can't do that in America because of woke
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 17, 2025, 11:30:24 AMI'll admit I was coming at that comment from more of a "do no harm" standpoint - e.g. don't include Iran in your axis of evil SoTU speach because you've got a forever war to defend and everyone knows axes need to have three countries. So you raise a good practical point. I'll give you something between "brilliant" and "terribly naive" in that I'm no expert in covert ops to sow discontent and support opposition, but the Mahsa Amini protests showed there is a lot to work with on the ground. Maybe Western powers already are offering quiet but meaningful support to opposition voices, but I think we'd be a lot further along if Western politicians weren't so anxious to score easy political points with bellicose anti-Iranian rhetoric.
That being said, I do think there is a low, but not insignificant chance that Iran shows itself totally incapable of a meaningful military response here, and the realization of that weakness is a contributing factor to regime change. I'm just pessimistic that Netanyahu is sufficiently committed to the bit, rather than hoping to score a few easy points. (Or maybe he's way too committed and wont stop until he achieves regime change, no matter the cost, to save his own skin? Idk, either way he's far from a trustworthy actor here and that's an unwelcome complication.)
Look I get it. But there have been plenty of times where the west has shown a willingness for negotiation, only to have Iran do something to score their own political points.
This I think is why Pak won't answer the question. Because just assuming that if we can use all carrot and no stick is simply not realistic. That's certainly not how we managed things with the Soviets back in the day.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2025, 12:13:27 PMA lot of people don't like Putin but I admire the way he handles political opponents. Can't do that in America because of woke
His opponents get dizzy from the publicity they receive by opposing him. Maybe that's why so many have fallen off of the little porches of their high-rise apartments.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 17, 2025, 12:17:07 PMLook I get it. But there have been plenty of times where the west has shown a willingness for negotiation, only to have Iran do something to score their own political points.
This I think is why Pak won't answer the question. Because just assuming that if we can use all carrot and no stick is simply not realistic. That's certainly not how we managed things with the Soviets back in the day.
Nope.
There definitely needs to be a stick. Just not a military stick. Much like the fall of the Soviet Union, any collapse of the Iranian regime will be the result of cultural and economic pressures, not military. We didn't bomb the Soviets into submission, and we won't bomb the mullahs out of existence either.
What might end them is economic isolation and a bombardment of cultural messaging. To some extent, it's been working. The Iranian economy is in tatters, and polling consistently shows a majority of the public blames their leadership - not Israel, not the Great Satan - for their struggles. The protests of 2022-23 didn't bring about regime change, but the fact they happened shows it's weakening its grip.
My fear here is that the progress that's been made will evaporate with a prolonged war with Israel/the West. The Iranians may not love their leaders, but they like foreign interference even less ... and not for nothing.
Israel's actions here give the mullahs an opportunity to rally the populace against a common enemy, and as we know, the Iranians aren't afraid of enduring massive hardship under those circumstances.
bingo
Quote from: Pakuni on June 17, 2025, 12:42:12 PMNope.
There definitely needs to be a stick. Just not a military stick. Much like the fall of the Soviet Union, any collapse of the Iranian regime will be the result of cultural and economic pressures, not military. We didn't bomb the Soviets into submission, and we won't bomb the mullahs out of existence either.
What might end them is economic isolation and a bombardment of cultural messaging. To some extent, it's been working. The Iranian economy is in tatters, and polling consistently shows a majority of the public blames their leadership - not Israel, not the Great Satan - for their struggles. The protests of 2022-23 didn't bring about regime change, but the fact they happened shows it's weakening its grip.
My fear here is that the progress that's been made will evaporate with a prolonged war with Israel/the West. The Iranians may not love their leaders, but they like foreign interference even less ... and not for nothing.
Israel's actions here give the mullahs an opportunity to rally the populace against a common enemy, and as we know, the Iranians aren't afraid of enduring massive hardship under those circumstances.
What you are describing is certainly effective, but I any really "encouraging democratic values."
Big if true, Robin Wright.
https://www.npr.org/2025/06/16/nx-s1-5432616/foreign-affairs-analyst-and-author-robin-wright-discusses-the-iran-israel-conflict
"The Iranian regime is very unpopular, but this is a moment where Persian nationalism, which goes back five millennia - people are very proud. They don't like to be attacked."
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 17, 2025, 02:21:50 PMBig if true, Robin Wright.
https://www.npr.org/2025/06/16/nx-s1-5432616/foreign-affairs-analyst-and-author-robin-wright-discusses-the-iran-israel-conflict
"The Iranian regime is very unpopular, but this is a moment where Persian nationalism, which goes back five millennia - people are very proud. They don't like to be attacked."
She was great on "House of Cards."
Quote from: The Sultan on June 17, 2025, 01:24:38 PMWhat you are describing is certainly effective, but I any really "encouraging democratic values."
Translate please for us non-persians..
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 17, 2025, 08:43:58 AMRussia is estimated to possess around 5,580 nuclear warheads, according to the Federation of American Scientists. This includes both deployed and non-deployed warheads. Approximately 1,710 are believed to be deployed on strategic delivery systems like missiles and bombers, while others are held in storage or are awaiting dismantlement
I don't give a flying f if they or Iran have weapons or nukes as deep as the Mariana Trench. The attacks in Israel and Ukraine would never have taken place and Putin and the Mullahs would be fertilizer. And the next in line if they pull the same bullcrap? Batter up. None of this should havd ever happened and rational people know why we are at this point.
Quote from: Jockey on June 17, 2025, 11:02:51 AMBut he's a hero and a great man to people on your side.
[/quote
Sure. And your "side' and I quote: "Straight Outta Uranium". We all know why we're here. Cut the nonsense.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 06:33:59 PMI don't give a flying f if they or Iran have weapons or nukes as deep as the Mariana Trench. The attacks in Israel and Ukraine would never have taken place and Putin and the Mullahs would be fertilizer. And the next in line if they pull the same bullcrap? Batter up. None of this should havd ever happened and rational people know why we are at this point.
Dude you are the least rational person here.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 17, 2025, 06:39:21 PMDude you are the least rational person here.
War crimes, dead Americans and a generation of new terrorists seems pretty rational
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2025, 06:54:34 PMWar crimes, dead Americans and a generation of new terrorists seems pretty rational
.
Both of you aren't seeing things clearly.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 06:58:49 PM.
Both of you aren't seeing things clearly.
Yes, I am. War crimes, dead Americans and a new generation of terrorists.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2025, 07:11:32 PMYes, I am. War crimes, dead Americans and a new generation of terrorists.
You havd zero foresight. New Terrorists? Batter up.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 07:13:26 PMYou havd zero foresight. New Terrorists? Batter up.
More war crimes and dead Americans. Batter up.
It would be a lot simpler to ban religion.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2025, 07:16:01 PMMore war crimes and dead Americans. Batter up.
It would be a lot simpler to ban religion.
You're forgiven, but you drivel silly talking points and aren't seeing things clearly at all. Wake up and deal with the reality of a dangerous world.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 07:17:40 PMYou're forgiven, but you drivel silly talking points and aren't seeing things clearly at all. Wake up and deal with the reality of a dangerous world.
No, I see things quite clearly. The mess in the Middle East was/is made by the empires of the world sticking their noses in and fixing things and mandating their policies on a people of which they are not.
Every decision by America with regard to the Middle East has been wrong, failed and ultimately leads to more death and destruction. All cuz' oil.
But yes, America doesn't have the five point plan of a person all for the wanton destruction of people and places without regard for international law.
Muggsy to my ignore list for a while.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2025, 07:29:46 PMNo, I see things quite clearly. The mess in the Middle East was/is made by the empires of the world sticking their noses in and fixing things and mandating their policies on a people of which they are not.
Every decision by America with regard to the Middle East has been wrong, failed and ultimately leads to more death and destruction. All cuz' oil.
But yes, America doesn't have the five point plan of a person all for the wanton destruction of people and places without regard for international law.
We've made very poor decisions. Did you call Assad a war criminal while he was gassing his own people? I might have missed that. There's another scumbag who should be deep into the ground. International law is a euphemism for Israel can't defend themselves.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 16, 2025, 06:36:50 PMNetanyahu is not targeting children in Gaza, and what you're saying is factually incorrect. Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc, etc, is the reason things are fked up. Israel isn't the problem regardless of Netanyahu's issues. Iranian leadership and their proxies is the problem.
https://on.ft.com/4kMZ2EB
"45 dead in Latest shooting of Gazans seeking food"
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 07:40:33 PMWe've made very poor decisions. Did you call Assad a war criminal while he was gassing his own people? I might have missed that. There's another scumbag who should be deep into the ground. International law is a euphemism for Israel can't defend themselves.
Assad is a war criminal. Doesn't mean America should commit war crimes. I guess since I didn't start a thread on Muscoop calling him a war criminal, I don't think he's a war criminal.
But I suppose your five point plan you won't share is what will bring peace to the Middle East that centuries of Europeans couldn't.
https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1935048445984665786
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2025, 07:54:01 PMAssad is a war criminal. Doesn't mean America should commit war crimes. I guess since I didn't start a thread on Muscoop calling him a war criminal, I don't think he's a war criminal.
But I suppose your five point plan you won't share is what will bring peace to the Middle East that centuries of Europeans couldn't.
How many people have died in Ukraine, Russia, Gaza, and Israel? My opinion is the 5 Point Plan would have saved tons of lives if we acted immediately. I understand that many people disagree, but that's fine.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 08:02:15 PMHow many people have died in Ukraine, Russia, Gaza, and Israel? My opinion is the 5 Point Plan would have saved tons of lives if we acted immediately. I understand that people disagree but that's fine.
Then share your five point plan, otherwise it's worthless, pointless and ridiculous
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 17, 2025, 07:42:25 PMhttps://on.ft.com/4kMZ2EB
"45 dead in Latest shooting of Gazans seeking food"
Give back the hostages and surrender. Why hasn't that happened?
Israel isn't the problem. The focus should be on the fundamentalist Islamic regimes that should be eviserated. Cut them off economically by usurping their oil for starters. This should have been done 30+ years ago.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 08:10:14 PMIsrael isn't the problem. The focus should be on the fundamentalist Islamic regimes that should be eviserated. Cut them off economically by usurping their oil for starters. This should have been done 30+ years ago.
How does one go about usurping their oil?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2025, 12:13:27 PMA lot of people don't like Putin but I admire the way he handles political opponents. Can't do that in America because of woke
(https://gifdb.com/images/high/joe-pesci-are-you-sure-about-that-uupeqo1kq0zcqoj3.gif)
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 08:02:15 PMHow many people have died in Ukraine, Russia, Gaza, and Israel? My opinion is the 5 Point Plan would have saved tons of lives if we acted immediately. I understand that many people disagree, but that's fine.
Can't disagree (or agree) with a mirage.
You're especially unhinged today.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 08:10:14 PMIsrael isn't the problem. The focus should be on the fundamentalist Islamic regimes that should be eviserated. Cut them off economically by usurping their oil for starters. This should have been done 30+ years ago.
Israel is most certainly part of the problem. And there is no way to "usurp their oil." Honestly you're like a child at this point.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 17, 2025, 08:10:14 PMIsrael isn't the problem. The focus should be on the fundamentalist Islamic regimes that should be eviserated. Cut them off economically by usurping their oil for starters. This should have been done 30+ years ago.
Israel is certainly part of the problem. Zionism is a fascist ideology.
The only reason they exist is we've propped them up as a settler colonial state for 75+ years. We get our free unsinkable aircraft carrier where the oil is, and they get all of the weapons we can send their way.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2025, 08:03:06 PMThen share your five point plan, otherwise it's worthless, pointless and ridiculous
We can add childish, as well.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 18, 2025, 06:17:07 AMIsrael is certainly part of the problem. Zionism is a fascist ideology.
The only reason they exist is we've propped them up as a settler colonial state for 75+ years. We get our free unsinkable aircraft carrier where the oil is, and they get all of the weapons we can send their way.
And this is what's driving me crazy here. We are now the world's largest oil producer! We don't need to get involved with any of this.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 18, 2025, 06:53:33 AMAnd this is what's driving me crazy here. We are now the world's largest oil producer! We don't need to get involved with any of this.
Some big time political donors want to get involved, however, to get that sweet oil
Responding to Muggsy is akin to responding to Heisy.
Stupid is stupid in any form. And they are Scoop's best examples.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 18, 2025, 06:17:57 AMWe can add childish, as well.
Delusional is the operative word to me. And by definition, he is totally incapable of grasping that.
From ChatGPT.
Did God revealed Himself to mankind through the Jewish people?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, in the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is believed that God revealed Himself to humanity through the Jewish people. This belief is central to Judaism and Christianity and is based on the following key points:
In Judaism:
Covenant with Abraham: God made a covenant with Abraham, promising to make his descendants a great nation and to bless the world through them (Genesis 12:1–3).
The Torah at Sinai: The most significant moment of divine revelation in Judaism is when God gave the Torah (Law) to Moses and the Israelites at Mount Sinai. This is seen as a direct revelation of God's will and character.
The Prophets: God continued to communicate with His people through prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, who delivered divine messages and guidance.
In Christianity:
Christianity sees the Jewish people as the chosen recipients of God's revelation in the Old Testament, preparing the way for the coming of Jesus Christ, whom Christians believe is the fullest revelation of God.
According to Christian belief, Jesus was born a Jew, fulfilled Jewish prophecies about the Messiah, and extended God's revelation to all nations through his life, death, and resurrection.
Broader Perspective:
This view is not universally accepted by all religions. For example, Islam acknowledges the Jewish prophets but teaches that the final and complete revelation came through Muhammad.
Secular or non-Abrahamic perspectives may interpret these claims metaphorically, historically, or critically.
So, within the Abrahamic religious framework, especially Judaism and Christianity, yes — God is believed to have revealed Himself to mankind through the Jewish people.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 18, 2025, 03:45:50 PMFrom ChatGPT.
Did God revealed Himself to mankind through the Jewish people?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, in the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is believed that God revealed Himself to humanity through the Jewish people. This belief is central to Judaism and Christianity and is based on the following key points:
In Judaism:
Covenant with Abraham: God made a covenant with Abraham, promising to make his descendants a great nation and to bless the world through them (Genesis 12:1–3).
The Torah at Sinai: The most significant moment of divine revelation in Judaism is when God gave the Torah (Law) to Moses and the Israelites at Mount Sinai. This is seen as a direct revelation of God's will and character.
The Prophets: God continued to communicate with His people through prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, who delivered divine messages and guidance.
In Christianity:
Christianity sees the Jewish people as the chosen recipients of God's revelation in the Old Testament, preparing the way for the coming of Jesus Christ, whom Christians believe is the fullest revelation of God.
According to Christian belief, Jesus was born a Jew, fulfilled Jewish prophecies about the Messiah, and extended God's revelation to all nations through his life, death, and resurrection.
Broader Perspective:
This view is not universally accepted by all religions. For example, Islam acknowledges the Jewish prophets but teaches that the final and complete revelation came through Muhammad.
Secular or non-Abrahamic perspectives may interpret these claims metaphorically, historically, or critically.
So, within the Abrahamic religious framework, especially Judaism and Christianity, yes — God is believed to have revealed Himself to mankind through the Jewish people.
And?
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus
Quote from: tower912 on June 18, 2025, 04:49:24 PMLove your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus
I used to support Jesus until he damaged businesses during a protest.
He did destroy the property of some money changers in the temple.
Quote from: tower912 on June 18, 2025, 05:09:54 PMHe did destroy the property of some money changers in the temple.
uhhhhhhh instead of BLM maybe people think Barabbass's Life Mattered?!
Quote from: tower912 on June 18, 2025, 04:49:24 PMLove your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus
As an evangelical Christian, I have to ask, who is Jesus?
Quote from: tower912 on June 18, 2025, 04:49:24 PMLove your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 18, 2025, 05:53:47 PMAs an evangelical Christian, I have to ask, who is Jesus?
As a godless liberal, I hate myself. That means I'm entitled to the opinion that the political nation-state of Israel should go fck itself.
Quote from: GB Warrior on June 18, 2025, 07:07:29 PMAs a godless liberal, I hate myself. That means I'm entitled to the opinion that the political nation-state of Israel should go fck itself.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion in America. For now.
Threads like these constantly remind me how irrational mankind can be, and when it comes to morality, how many people think it is perfectly rational to think that when people unlike me and my beliefs do X, they are terrible, horrible people, but when people like me and my beliefs do X, they are righteous, without any qualms whatsoever.
Mods can we add an American flag to the title of this thread soon or no
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 18, 2025, 09:48:16 PMMods can we add an American flag to the title of this thread soon or no
Only once muggsy admits he's about 4 points short of a functional 5 point plan.
Israel will respond strongly after the hospital missile hit. The Iranian regime is not going to last very long.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 19, 2025, 07:23:27 AMIsrael will respond strongly after the hospital missile hit. The Iranian regime is not going to last very long.
Bombing hospitals for me, but not for thee.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 19, 2025, 07:23:27 AMIsrael will respond strongly after the hospital missile hit. The Iranian regime is not going to last very long.
Is that wrong? Huh.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 19, 2025, 12:14:58 AMOnly once muggsy admits he's about 4 points short of a functional 5 point plan.
For those old enough to remember the slogan for Timex watches....it works for Muggsy as well.
"It takes a licking and keeps on ticking." ;D
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 19, 2025, 07:23:27 AMIsrael will respond strongly after the hospital missile hit. The Iranian regime is not going to last very long.
IMHO this was an example of incompetence and not malice, and an example of how powerless Iran is to respond effectively. Sure its possible that Iran targeted the hospital, but based on their lobbing ordinance and hoping for the best (worst?) so far, it seems the less likely explanation.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 19, 2025, 12:14:58 AMOnly once muggsy admits he's about 4 points short of a functional 5 point plan.
To be fair to Muggsy, I don't think even he ever described it as functional.
(https://media.tenor.com/V2gaFInG_7wAAAAM/strategy-action-plan.gif)
I think Muggsy's plan is best summarized as
1. Topple Khamenei
2. Get bitches
Who needs strategy or a plan?
Quote from: GB Warrior on June 19, 2025, 12:56:52 PMI think Muggsy's plan is best summarized as
1. Topple Khamenei
2. Get bitches
Who needs strategy or a plan?
In the broadest sense, the plan is undeniably brilliant.
(https://i.imgur.com/lSeJyDh.gif)
https://x.com/AircraftSpots/status/1936351184257953906
War time in America. Fantastic
Muggsy just exploded in his pants like a SpaceX rocket test
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 21, 2025, 07:13:01 PMWar time in America. Fantastic
In all honesty, the world is now a more dangerous place. Everyone's intelligence indicated Iran was not seeking a nuclear weapon, and were engaged in negotiations.
They were bombed anyway. Actions like that upset that natural order of the world, and eliminate the trust/respect other countries have in the USA.
Indeed.
Countdown to re-instituting the draft has begun in our house. Says the father of an 18 year-old.
Quote from: forgetful on June 21, 2025, 07:35:25 PMIn all honesty, the world is now a more dangerous place. Everyone's intelligence indicated Iran was not seeking a nuclear weapon, and were engaged in negotiations.
They were bombed anyway. Actions like that upset that natural order of the world, and eliminate the trust/respect other countries have in the USA.
No one respects America anymore and I can't blame them one bit. But at least student loans didn't get forgiven. Imagine if that happened?
Quote from: tower912 on June 21, 2025, 07:35:46 PMIndeed.
Countdown to re-instituting the draft has begun in our house. Says the father of an 18 year-old.
It's kind of sad that the world is now hoping that Iran is the rational, peace seeking nation as the only hope to stop an all out war in the Middle East.
Quote from: forgetful on June 21, 2025, 07:43:58 PMIt's kind of sad that the world is now hoping that Iran is the rational, peace seeking nation as the only hope to stop an all out war in the Middle East.
Very rational. Especially with regard to women, hey?
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 21, 2025, 08:11:58 PMVery rational. Especially with regard to women, hey?
We illegally bombing Saudi Arabia, too?
Quote from: forgetful on June 21, 2025, 07:35:25 PMIn all honesty, the world is now a more dangerous place. Everyone's intelligence indicated Iran was not seeking a nuclear weapon, and were engaged in negotiations.
They were bombed anyway. Actions like that upset that natural order of the world, and eliminate the trust/respect other countries have in the USA.
Depending on who you read, the negotiations appeared to be a bit of a joke with Iran repeating the same messaging and not wanting to budge. They continue to enrich uranium, try to expand ballistic missile capabilities, etc...
I'm certainly not condoning military action, but Ive seen a lot of contrarian takes the last few days trying to make Iran out to be some misunderstand peaceful force whose only fault is being mischaracterized by propaganda and completely disregarding Iran's role and efforts in arming and funding groups all over the Middle East.
Quote from: forgetful on June 21, 2025, 07:43:58 PMIt's kind of sad that the world is now hoping that Iran is the rational, peace seeking nation as the only hope to stop an all out war in the Middle East.
Some may be mistakenly thinking it would be Iran being altruistic and peaceful to avoid a war when it would actually be Iran realizing that they are already screwed in an armed conflict and cutting their losses, IMO.
Finally. Great Again.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 21, 2025, 08:22:20 PMDepending on who you read, the negotiations appeared to be a bit of a joke with Iran repeating the same messaging and not wanting to budge. They continue to enrich uranium, try to expand ballistic missile capabilities, etc...
I'm certainly not condoning military action, but Ive seen a lot of contrarian takes the last few days trying to make Iran out to be some misunderstand peaceful force whose only fault is being mischaracterized by propaganda and completely disregarding Iran's role and efforts in arming and funding groups all over the Middle East.
Some may be mistakenly thinking it would be Iran being altruistic and peaceful to avoid a war when it would actually be Iran realizing that they are already screwed in an armed conflict and cutting their losses, IMO.
Well, the good news is, they'll act accordingly now. Especially since we immediately asked for peace.
Quote from: forgetful on June 21, 2025, 07:43:58 PMIt's kind of sad that the world is now hoping that Iran is the rational, peace seeking nation as the only hope to stop an all out war in the Middle East.
Are you sure most of the world sees Iran in that light? Their extremist religious government has been a bad actor for decades and decades.
Quote from: MU82 on June 21, 2025, 09:09:15 PMAre you sure most of the world sees Iran in that light? Their extremist religious government has been a bad actor for decades and decades.
I think you misread my meaning.
Right now, Iran has been unilaterally attacked by both Israel and the US. The Middle East is on the verge of all out war.
Israel said they will keep attacking. The US says if Iran doesn't surrender we will keep attacking. The only hope is that Iran says no to war, which would mean that they appear as the rational, peace seeking nation in this ordeal.
Related, the President is saying they must agree to peace, or they will be further attacked. What does that even mean?
Quote from: JWags85 on June 21, 2025, 08:22:20 PMDepending on who you read, the negotiations appeared to be a bit of a joke with Iran repeating the same messaging and not wanting to budge. They continue to enrich uranium, try to expand ballistic missile capabilities, etc...
I'm certainly not condoning military action, but Ive seen a lot of contrarian takes the last few days trying to make Iran out to be some misunderstand peaceful force whose only fault is being mischaracterized by propaganda and completely disregarding Iran's role and efforts in arming and funding groups all over the Middle East.
Some may be mistakenly thinking it would be Iran being altruistic and peaceful to avoid a war when it would actually be Iran realizing that they are already screwed in an armed conflict and cutting their losses, IMO.
I agree on the bolded.
And I agree on the negotiations. Iran wasn't going to give up being able to have a nuclear enrichment program, but that is different than pursuing a nuclear weapon, which our own intelligence said they had no desire to do. Peace could have been found in the middle.
So it may be true then that Iran was not overly engaged in negotiations, but we also had the President tonight say that all of this was done as part of a team with Israel, which to Iran and the rest of the world, indicates that we were never negotiating in good faith, we were just helping facilitate a surprise attack. That's not a good look.
How many generations of white Christian men will die in the middle east?
Who are Iran's allies? Russia? Yemen? The tell for me is what is the USA up against.
What's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at? 1 week? 2?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 21, 2025, 08:14:07 PMWe illegally bombing Saudi Arabia, too?
No they have sports Jay Bee likes so no concerns here.
I'm sick of the winning.
WWE sure picked a hell of a time to be headed over to Saudi Arabia next week.
Just not the same around here w/o the dentists. Muggsy's a poor substitute- he's not an pretty boy.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 21, 2025, 08:22:20 PMDepending on who you read, the negotiations appeared to be a bit of a joke with Iran repeating the same messaging and not wanting to budge. They continue to enrich uranium, try to expand ballistic missile capabilities, etc...
Iran negotiated and started complying. But then the US tore up the treaty because reasons. Would you come to the negotiation table again? Why would you believe that any of them would be honored or be in good faith anyway.
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5fb4e04a7a0a86e0c1e0e346/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)
The US only has threat of force now. Our word doesn't mean much anymore.
This is not an endorsement of the Iranian regime, but if you were in that position you'd probably prefer not to waste your time either.
Even though I was against it, at least I GOT our invasion of Iraq.
This I don't get at all. We have been manipulated into doing Netanyahu's bidding, and it's really strange how we ended up here. Anyone with any degree of foresight will see that this has the possibility of being MUCH more problematic than Iraq - way stronger opponent with much better abilities to strike back. Not to mention that this is much less popular domestically.
And I have no idea what strategic American interest is being served here. The whole point of developing domestic energy sources was so that we no longer had to be involved in this nonsense.
Instead of talking softly and carrying a big stick, we are full of bluster and trying to half-ass it. It's not going to work.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 22, 2025, 06:22:08 AMEven though I was against it, at least I GOT our invasion of Iraq.
This I don't get at all. We have been manipulated into doing Netanyahu's bidding, and it's really strange how we ended up here. Anyone with any degree of foresight will see that this has the possibility of being MUCH more problematic than Iraq - way stronger opponent with much better abilities to strike back. Not to mention that this is much less popular domestically.
And I have no idea what strategic American interest is being served here. The whole point of developing domestic energy sources was so that we no longer had to be involved in this nonsense.
Instead of talking softly and carrying a big stick, we are full of bluster and trying to half-ass it. It's not going to work.
Maybe we will leave the rebuilding to Israel because they've proven adept at navigating complex humanitarian disasters they've created
Quote from: The Sultan on June 22, 2025, 06:22:08 AMThis I don't get at all. We have been manipulated into doing Netanyahu's bidding, and it's really strange how we ended up here.
This is where I'm at, and despite what Muggs' mentalist capabilities would tell you, I'm fairly hawkish in thinking the US should support Israel with treasure and weapons as far as it wants to take its fight with Iran.
But by most accounts, the only thing the US brought to the table that Israel didn't here was bunker busters, and Israel probably had the capacity to take out the remaining sites, but without bunker busters that was just going to require strategic ground forces. Okay? Go for it if you want and we'll give you what we can. But this just seems like directly involving US forces for the sole purpose of preserving Israeli military assets. Which I don't understand at all.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 21, 2025, 09:54:46 PMWhat's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at? 1 week? 2?
Not just worried about Iran.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/russias-medvedev-says-trump-started-new-war-us-after-attack-iran-2025-06-22/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/russias-medvedev-says-trump-started-new-war-us-after-attack-iran-2025-06-22/)
Same official stated "the future production of nuclear weapons will continue" and that "a number of countries are ready to directly supply Iran with their own nuclear warheads"
So, everything's fine.
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 22, 2025, 08:27:16 AMThis is where I'm at, and despite what Muggs' mentalist capabilities would tell you, I'm fairly hawkish in thinking the US should support Israel with treasure and weapons as far as it wants to take its fight with Iran.
But by most accounts, the only thing the US brought to the table that Israel didn't here was bunker busters, and Israel probably had the capacity to take out the remaining sites, but without bunker busters that was just going to require strategic ground forces. Okay? Go for it if you want and we'll give you what we can. But this just seems like directly involving US forces for the sole purpose of preserving Israeli military assets. Which I don't understand at all.
From a complete realpolitik point of view, our alliance with Israel has given us absolutely nothing of value. One could argue that it has actually been more harmful than helpful to our long term interests.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 22, 2025, 01:39:30 AMIran negotiated and started complying. But then the US tore up the treaty because reasons. Would you come to the negotiation table again? Why would you believe that any of them would be honored or be in good faith anyway.
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5fb4e04a7a0a86e0c1e0e346/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)
The US only has threat of force now. Our word doesn't mean much anymore.
This is not an endorsement of the Iranian regime, but if you were in that position you'd probably prefer not to waste your time either.
This is the most frustrating part. Maybe this wasn't ever preventable. But at one point we had a deal and oversight. But that deal was torn up because of nothing other than vanity.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 22, 2025, 08:35:04 AMFrom a complete realpolitik point of view, our alliance with Israel has given us absolutely nothing of value. One could argue that it has actually been more harmful than helpful to our long term interests.
It's been very helpful for political fundraising
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 22, 2025, 08:27:16 AMThis is where I'm at, and despite what Muggs' mentalist capabilities would tell you, I'm fairly hawkish in thinking the US should support Israel with treasure and weapons as far as it wants to take its fight with Iran.
But by most accounts, the only thing the US brought to the table that Israel didn't here was bunker busters, and Israel probably had the capacity to take out the remaining sites, but without bunker busters that was just going to require strategic ground forces. Okay? Go for it if you want and we'll give you what we can. But this just seems like directly involving US forces for the sole purpose of preserving Israeli military assets. Which I don't understand at all.
This might br very reasonable thinking IF last night was the end point of this.
But we know it isn't. We have no plan for where this goes from here. We will strictly be reactive.
Quote from: Jockey on June 22, 2025, 11:48:40 AMThis might br very reasonable thinking IF last night was the end point of this.
But we know it isn't. We have no plan for where this goes from here. We will strictly be reactive.
Bingo!
Quote from: Jockey on June 22, 2025, 11:48:40 AMThis might br very reasonable thinking IF last night was the end point of this.
But we know it isn't. We have no plan for where this goes from here. We will strictly be reactive.
We have a big, beautiful plan. The greatest plan ever.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on June 22, 2025, 08:38:34 AMThis is the most frustrating part. Maybe this wasn't ever preventable. But at one point we had a deal and oversight. But that deal was torn up because of nothing other than vanity.
The outcome of this is nations believing the only true way to maintain sovereignty/security is by obtaining a nuclear weapon by any means.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 21, 2025, 09:54:46 PMWhat's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at? 1 week? 2?
Relax! The 22-year-old former landscape worker and part -time grocery bagger who is now in charge of counter terrorism will keep us safe with his extensive experience and impressive credentials in this area.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 22, 2025, 12:58:53 PMRelax! The 22-year-old former landscape worker and part -time grocery bagger who is now in charge of counter terrorism will keep us safe with his extensive experience and impressive credentials in this area.
Is he better than the drunk womanizer at the Pentagon?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 21, 2025, 09:54:46 PMWhat's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at? 1 week? 2?
Getting excited to start taking off my underwear at tsa
OK,
Pardon my cynicism but:
1) The Iranians already blame us for the attacks Israel made on Iran. We're viewed by Iran as fighting a proxy war using Israel, just as they use Hezbollah and Hamas as a proxy to attack Israel.We were up to our eyeballs in Iranian hatred long before we bombed anything.
2) While it is debatable how far Iran was from actually building a functioning nuclear bomb, the fact is it was coming. You don't build a hardened shelter 300 feet under a mountain unless you're doing something you really want to protect -- and hide.
3) For the Iranians, diplomacy is a stalling technique. Yes, I'd like it to work as much as anyone in here. But I have a difficult time trusting the diplomacy of a country constantly screaming "Death to America" and "Death to Israel", all the while supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.
4) I said this before and I'll say it again: "If Iran gets the bomb, to where do you think it will be aimed?" And, for the record, the Iranians are not particularly popular with the rest of the Muslim Middle East.
Bottom Line: Between the U.S. and Israel, we set the Iranian bomb program back more than 20 years. Sure, Iran will be angry and they may try to retaliate, but if they do, the retribution that can be foisted on their country by the American military makes what Israel's done to date look like a fireworks show. I'm confident the Mullahs know this and will be extremely careful.
We cannot think of Iran -- or any part of the Middle East for that matter -- in American or Western terms. These are countries incapable of a pluralistic society. They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe. That's why all the peace initiatives, save one, haven't worked.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 22, 2025, 01:04:36 PMOK,
Pardon my cynicism but:
1) The Iranians already blame us for the attacks Israel made on Iran. We're viewed by Iran as fighting a proxy war using Israel, just as they use Hezbollah and Hamas as a proxy to attack Israel.We were up to our eyeballs in Iranian hatred long before we bombed anything.
2) While it is debatable how far Iran was from actually building a functioning nuclear bomb, the fact is it was coming. You don't build a hardened shelter 300 feet under a mountain unless you're doing something you really want to protect -- and hide.
3) For the Iranians, diplomacy is a stalling technique. Yes, I'd like it to work as much as anyone in here. But I have a difficult time trusting the diplomacy of a country constantly screaming "Death to America" and "Death to Israel", all the while supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.
4) I said this before and I'll say it again: "If Iran gets the bomb, to where do you think it will be aimed?" And, for the record, the Iranians are not particularly popular with the rest of the Muslim Middle East.
Bottom Line: Between the U.S. and Israel, we set the Iranian bomb program back more than 20 years. Sure, Iran will be angry and they may try to retaliate, but if they do, the retribution that can be foisted on their country by the American military makes what Israel's done to date look like a fireworks show. I'm confident the Mullahs know this and will be extremely careful.
We cannot think of Iran -- or any part of the Middle East for that matter -- in American or Western terms. These are countries incapable of a pluralistic society. They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe. That's why all the peace initiatives, save one, haven't worked.
I totally get the bolded, but why would Iran trust us either, almost 20-years ago, a presidential candidate sang "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" to The Beach Boys song at rallies, we have been threatening to obliterate Iran forever.
And regarding your wrap up, it appears as if we did not set the program back more than 20-years. Most accounts are their uranium was removed. They could set up a small centrifuge (or already have) in a matter of weeks and have a nuke within a month still if they would like one. If they really wanted a nuke, they would have had one 10-years ago.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 22, 2025, 01:04:36 PMOK,
Pardon my cynicism but:
1) The Iranians already blame us for the attacks Israel made on Iran. We're viewed by Iran as fighting a proxy war using Israel, just as they use Hezbollah and Hamas as a proxy to attack Israel.We were up to our eyeballs in Iranian hatred long before we bombed anything.
2) While it is debatable how far Iran was from actually building a functioning nuclear bomb, the fact is it was coming. You don't build a hardened shelter 300 feet under a mountain unless you're doing something you really want to protect -- and hide.
3) For the Iranians, diplomacy is a stalling technique. Yes, I'd like it to work as much as anyone in here. But I have a difficult time trusting the diplomacy of a country constantly screaming "Death to America" and "Death to Israel", all the while supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.
4) I said this before and I'll say it again: "If Iran gets the bomb, to where do you think it will be aimed?" And, for the record, the Iranians are not particularly popular with the rest of the Muslim Middle East.
Bottom Line: Between the U.S. and Israel, we set the Iranian bomb program back more than 20 years. Sure, Iran will be angry and they may try to retaliate, but if they do, the retribution that can be foisted on their country by the American military makes what Israel's done to date look like a fireworks show. I'm confident the Mullahs know this and will be extremely careful.
We cannot think of Iran -- or any part of the Middle East for that matter -- in American or Western terms. These are countries incapable of a pluralistic society. They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe. That's why all the peace initiatives, save one, haven't worked.
1. I understand that, but we now attacked them directly, which means they are going to be seen as defending themselves when they respond.
2. It's not that debatable. Our own intelligence said they weren't seeking to develop one.
3. They've been screaming those things for nearly fifty years now.
4. Nowhere. They're smart enough to realize using one offensively would be a death blow. And they are likely a lot more popular today than they were 24 hours ago.
The rest of your post is laughable considering its the exact same thing that was being said about Iraq over twenty years ago. And that cost us thousands of lives and billions of dollars. And you are just going to trot out those same out justifications again? Please. How many times are you going to be fooled?
Then there's this...
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-iran-attack-no-intel-nuclear-1235369641/
"Just months ago, Trump's Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard testified to Congress, in her opening statement, that the U.S. intel community "continues to assess that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon" and had not reauthorized its nuclear weapons program.
While Trump recently publicly disputed Gabbard's testimony, according to two administration officials with knowledge of internal deliberations in recent weeks, the president's decision to strike was not driven by any new U.S. intelligence on Iran.
"There is no intel," says one of the officials, who were granted anonymity to discuss sensitive matters. "Nothing new, that I'm aware of... The president is protecting the United States and our interests, [but] the intelligence assessments have not really changed from what they were before."
So our intelligence suggested that they weren't looking to build a weapon...and no new intelligence claimed anything had changed...yet we attacked anyway? WTF is that?
Quote from: The Sultan on June 22, 2025, 01:35:38 PMWTF is that?
Stupidity and ignorance of history. We made a deal with Iran, it was working, then we went back on our word and attacked them.
Reminds me of how we made a deal with the Mujahideen in the 1980s, withdrew our support once Russia pulled out, and left a vacuum for the Taliban to fill.
Ultimately, Bin Laden got his revenge on 9/11, planning for over a decade.
I fully expect this will end like that. In the short term, Americans all over the world will be targeted by terrorists, but in the long term we'll see another 9/11, maybe more than one. It might not be for 10 or 20 years, but they won't forgive and they won't forget. We betrayed our word, doubled down on that betrayal by attacking Iran when our own DNI just said they weren't working on a weapon, and American soldiers and citizens will pay the price.
BTW, they were set back months - not 20 years.
Their long range plan may be set back years, but creating a rudimentary bombshell, aka Hiroshima, can still be accomplished quickly if they so desire.
Yeah, saying for the past week "maybe I'll bomb them, maybe I won't" gave them plenty of time to move anything critical. Surprise attacks don't really work when you announce them in advance.
Quote from: Jockey on June 22, 2025, 01:44:27 PMBTW, they were set back months - not 20 years.
Their long range plan may be set back years, but creating a rudimentary bombshell, aka Hiroshima, can still be accomplished quickly if they so desire.
And now have a greater motivation to do so. The world is way more dangerous now than it was yesterday.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 22, 2025, 01:48:58 PMYeah, saying for the past week "maybe I'll bomb them, maybe I won't" gave them plenty of time to move anything critical. Surprise attacks don't really work when you announce them in advance.
To be fair I was caught off guard that we'd be so stupid to debate it publicly when we planned on actually doing it.
Probably says more about me at this point to be honest.
Quote from: GB Warrior on June 22, 2025, 02:34:46 PMTo be fair I was caught off guard that we'd be so stupid to debate it publicly when we planned on actually doing it.
Probably says more about me at this point to be honest.
The Guardian is reporting that the enriched uranium was moved and the facility evacuated days ago, according to an Iranian official.
Because, as you said, some idiot talked about it as though it was a live sporting event.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 22, 2025, 01:04:36 PMWe cannot think of Iran -- or any part of the Middle East for that matter -- in American or Western terms. These are countries incapable of a pluralistic society. They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe. That's why all the peace initiatives, save one, haven't worked.
I'm sure our peace initiatives driven predominantly because they had something we wanted were looking out for what was best for their culture.
Also you should avoid painting a region of 500m people and countless cultures stretching thousands of years as "They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe."
That's like saying "baseball fans are all racist homophobic bigots" just because all the cardinals fans are boycotting Pride night and Juneteenth at the ballpark
Wonder how D-Day would have gone if it occurred today.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 22, 2025, 03:34:50 PMWonder how D-Day would have gone if it occurred today.
You'd never be able to have a D Day in this day and age due to wokeness
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 21, 2025, 07:27:07 PMMuggsy just exploded in his pants like a SpaceX rocket test
Why would I be happy about an itsy pinprick strike?
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 22, 2025, 03:34:50 PMWonder how D-Day would have gone if it occurred today.
It depends which party was in office.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 21, 2025, 09:54:46 PMWhat's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at? 1 week? 2?
This has always been a daily concern for a long time.
Iranian leadership has two goals: 1) Death to Israel. 2) Death to America. That's it. Nothing has changed.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 22, 2025, 03:34:50 PMWonder how D-Day would have gone if it occurred today.
Differently. Because of the clown show.
Iran's parliament has voted to close the Strait of Hormuz, cutting off 20% of the world's oil supply.
I wonder what oil-producing nation in the neighborhood might benefit from such a thing.
Quote from: tower912 on June 22, 2025, 04:16:33 PMDifferently. Because of the clown show.
Please explain.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 22, 2025, 04:22:30 PMPlease explain.
Henry Stimson vs Pete Hegseth.
Who you got?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 22, 2025, 04:14:04 PMThis has always been a daily concern for a long time.
Iranian leadership has two goals: 1) Death to Israel. 2) Death to America. That's it. Nothing has changed.
You are so easy to manipulate. Think a little for once.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-the-us-military-tricked-everyone-to-surprise-iran-with-b-2-bomber-strikes-on-its-nuclear-sites/ar-AA1Hc5oP?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=85d96be7a5f2483e8540f4e9fa52e797&ei=16
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 22, 2025, 03:34:50 PMWonder how D-Day would have gone if it occurred today.
The fact that you would compare the two is laughable.
ChatGPT
Could Iran close the Strait of Hormuz?
ChatGPT said:
Iran could attempt to close the Strait of Hormuz, but doing so would be extremely risky, provoke significant international backlash, and likely be unsustainable. Here's a breakdown:
1. Why the Strait of Hormuz Matters
It is the world's most critical oil chokepoint.
About 20% of global oil trade passes through it (around 17 million barrels/day).
It links the Persian Gulf with the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean, making it vital for countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, UAE, and Kuwait.
2. Iran's Capability
Iran has:
Mines, fast attack boats, anti-ship missiles, submarines, and drones.
Revolutionary Guard Navy (IRGCN) specializes in asymmetric naval warfare in the confined waters of the Gulf.
They could disrupt or harass shipping and even block the Strait temporarily.
3. Challenges and Risks for Iran
U.S. and allied naval forces (especially the U.S. Fifth Fleet in Bahrain) maintain a strong presence and would respond quickly.
A full blockade would be an act of war, possibly triggering U.S. or coalition military strikes.
Iran depends on the Strait too—its own oil exports, imports, and economy rely on it.
Global backlash: Sanctions, military retaliation, diplomatic isolation.
4. Historical Context
Iran has threatened to close the Strait during tensions (e.g., nuclear deal fallout, 2012, 2019), but has never done so.
Past actions (e.g., seizing tankers, laying mines) were meant as deterrents or messages, not full closures.
Conclusion
Iran can threaten or partially disrupt the Strait of Hormuz, especially short-term, but a total and sustained closure is highly unlikely due to:
Military inferiority against global navies,
Economic self-harm,
The near certainty of a massive retaliatory response.
Threats are more of a strategic leverage tool than a realistic long-term option.
Is the Strait of Hormuz international waters?
ChatGPT said:
The Strait of Hormuz is a narrow international strait but its legal status is more complex than simply being "international waters."
⚖️ Legal Status:
The Strait of Hormuz is governed by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) — although Iran has not ratified UNCLOS, it generally adheres to customary international maritime law.
Here's what that means:
1. Territorial Waters:
The Strait is only about 21 nautical miles wide at its narrowest.
Under international law, a country's territorial sea extends 12 nautical miles from its coastline.
Therefore, both Iranian and Omani territorial waters completely overlap the Strait—there are no "high seas" in the strait itself.
2. Transit Passage Rights:
UNCLOS provides for "transit passage" through international straits used for global navigation.
This means foreign ships and aircraft (military and civilian) have the right to unimpeded transit through the Strait, even though it passes through territorial waters.
Transit passage cannot be suspended, even in times of tension or war.
🇮🇷 Iran's Position:
Iran disputes some aspects of this interpretation because it has not signed UNCLOS.
Iran argues that only peaceful passage applies, not full "transit passage," and has tried to restrict military vessels, particularly U.S. Navy ships.
The U.S. does not recognize Iran's restrictions and asserts freedom of navigation under customary international law.
🌍 Global Consensus:
Most of the world treats the Strait of Hormuz as an international strait with transit passage rights.
This legal framework protects global shipping, even though the waters technically fall within Iranian and Omani territory.
✅ Summary:
Not international waters (not "high seas") — the Strait is within territorial waters of Iran and Oman.
But it is an international strait, so foreign vessels have legal rights to transit without interference, under international law.
Iran could challenge or disrupt those rights, but doing so would violate international norms and provoke military or diplomatic response.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 22, 2025, 04:11:13 PMWhy would I be happy about an itsy pinprick strike?
Because your itsy pinprick exploded just like the strike
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 22, 2025, 05:42:08 PMIs the Strait of Hormuz international waters?
ChatGPT said:
The Strait of Hormuz is a narrow international strait but its legal status is more complex than simply being "international waters."
⚖️ Legal Status:
The Strait of Hormuz is governed by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) — although Iran has not ratified UNCLOS, it generally adheres to customary international maritime law.
Here's what that means:
1. Territorial Waters:
The Strait is only about 21 nautical miles wide at its narrowest.
Under international law, a country's territorial sea extends 12 nautical miles from its coastline.
Therefore, both Iranian and Omani territorial waters completely overlap the Strait—there are no "high seas" in the strait itself.
2. Transit Passage Rights:
UNCLOS provides for "transit passage" through international straits used for global navigation.
This means foreign ships and aircraft (military and civilian) have the right to unimpeded transit through the Strait, even though it passes through territorial waters.
Transit passage cannot be suspended, even in times of tension or war.
🇮🇷 Iran's Position:
Iran disputes some aspects of this interpretation because it has not signed UNCLOS.
Iran argues that only peaceful passage applies, not full "transit passage," and has tried to restrict military vessels, particularly U.S. Navy ships.
The U.S. does not recognize Iran's restrictions and asserts freedom of navigation under customary international law.
🌍 Global Consensus:
Most of the world treats the Strait of Hormuz as an international strait with transit passage rights.
This legal framework protects global shipping, even though the waters technically fall within Iranian and Omani territory.
✅ Summary:
Not international waters (not "high seas") — the Strait is within territorial waters of Iran and Oman.
But it is an international strait, so foreign vessels have legal rights to transit without interference, under international law.
Iran could challenge or disrupt those rights, but doing so would violate international norms and provoke military or diplomatic response.
This might align with your interests
https://www.reddit.com/r/MyBoyfriendIsAI/s/V8Orjjw7tQ
Sure. It would clearly be an "illegal" act to close the Strait. But it would be in response to another "illegal" act...or multitudes of them actually. And would require significant military intervention to reopen them.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 22, 2025, 05:56:31 PMThis might align with your interests
https://www.reddit.com/r/MyBoyfriendIsAI/s/V8Orjjw7tQ
I see you were scoping it out.
https://x.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1936822677899280784?t=oSDfp8I5YD34TGEDy7eL9Q&s=19
Which side should the US come in on, the allies or the Axis? Hitler and Mussolini are strong leaders good men. All Adolf is doing is getting rid of immigrants and Jews, putting Germany first and ensuring strong borders. There are good people on both sides of the debate there. And Churchill doesn't have the cards. We could easily swoop in and hit them with some big bombs and then say peace is on them.
Good lord...
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html?smid=url-share
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 22, 2025, 06:00:25 PMI see you were scoping it out.
Maybe use ChatGPT for a better comeback than "no u"
Quote from: The Sultan on June 22, 2025, 07:11:40 PMGood lord...
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html?smid=url-share
That's why I said they could have a limited nuclear device within months.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 22, 2025, 08:21:38 PMMaybe use ChatGPT for a better comeback than "no u"
Lame.
If we had a savvier administration/diplomatic gamers, I would say maybe the back channels is actually the US/Iran agreeing to allow them to move the uranium to a different facility for whatever reason, while bombing the key sites to prove a point, show force and control to the world, and set the tone for a new calmer relationship in reaction to the strikes. But we don't have that sort of thing and everything that has come out after surely wouldn't remotely hint at that.
On a different point, I haven't found an intelligent POV on it, so I don't have any basis or thought out arguments for or against, but one thing I thought about while explaining everything thats occurred to my wife is...say there is no evidence or whatnot that Iran is building a nuke or is progressing in that direction. But they are insistent and unyielding about enriched uranium production, to the detriment of negotiations and feelings of peace. Is there an angle of concern that a third party, whether other Iran-funded groups, another nation, etc.. and Iran would be supplying them with enriched uranium, funding, resources/know how, etc... Its not a far out conspiracy theory given how Iran has had other parties do their dirty work for years giving plausible deniability and distance from actual violence and warfare.
It could be totally fantastical and a Jack Reacher plot point more than realistic scenario, but just something I thought about. And again, the current administration isn't given any indication or positioning that makes it seem like such a surreptitious situation is being proactively approached.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 22, 2025, 07:11:40 PMGood lord...
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html?smid=url-share
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/OqBPATjrPaAAAAAd/mr-rogers-mister-rogers.gif)
Quote from: The Sultan on June 22, 2025, 07:11:40 PMGood lord...
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html?smid=url-share
At least JD managed to not call everyone "Jose" this time.
Quote from: GB Warrior on June 22, 2025, 08:22:08 AMMaybe we will leave the rebuilding to Israel because they've proven adept at navigating complex humanitarian disasters they've created
https://bsky.app/profile/kenklippenstein.bsky.social/post/3lsa4odils22c
Or send in the Stellar Scooper Crew.
They were banned.
I never thought they were stellar, but to each their own.
They did.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 22, 2025, 07:11:40 PMGood lord...
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html?smid=url-share
Our DOD secretary will check in with his top advisors, Jack Daniels and Jim Beam and get back to us
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 23, 2025, 07:11:57 AMOur DOD secretary will check in with his top advisors, Jack Daniels and Jim Beam and get back to us
Gin Diesel will handle this with aplomb
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 23, 2025, 06:10:27 AMOr send in the Stellar Scooper Crew.
If your argument is not to trust Scoop, that's wise. If your argument is to trust this administration, well, that's pretty freaking stupid.
Why would I trust either?
I believe they can provide a lot of useful information.
But it is up to the user to discern.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 23, 2025, 08:58:39 AMI believe they can provide a lot of useful information.
But it is up to the user to discern.
This isn't surprising.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2025, 07:27:44 AMGin Diesel will handle this with aplomb
Gin Diesel. I like that one!
At least gas prices won't go up now that the world has sternly been told to not raise them.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 23, 2025, 09:45:07 AMAt least gas prices won't go up now that the world has sternly been told to not raise them.
We need to bomb Saudi Arabia and take the wells
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2025, 10:05:11 AMWe need to bomb Saudi Arabia and take the wells
I worry about how that will effect LIV golf.
Was this, as his niece suggested, just about ego because he was hurt over the TACO nickname?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2025, 10:05:11 AMWe need to bomb Saudi Arabia and take the wells
Don't you drive an electric vehicle?
Quote from: Jockey on June 23, 2025, 10:39:42 AMWas this, as his niece suggested, just about ego because he was hurt over the TACO nickname?
If there's one thing I'm sure of it's that Chuck Schumer has never successfully hurt someones feelings
Quote from: GB Warrior on June 23, 2025, 10:51:44 AMIf there's one thing I'm sure of it's that Chuck Schumer has never successfully hurt someones feelings
I don't know about that. He told us he wrote a really, really, really mean letter to trump.
Quote from: Jockey on June 23, 2025, 10:39:42 AMWas this, as his niece suggested, just about ego because he was hurt over the TACO nickname?
I'm sure that was a factor (poll numbers after LA too), but also insiders have mentioned he gets all of his "intelligence" from Fox News, and he was jealous of the praise being lavished on Bibi and wanted a piece of the action.
Quote from: GB Warrior on June 23, 2025, 10:51:44 AMIf there's one thing I'm sure of it's that Chuck Schumer has never successfully hurt someones feelings
What would you rather trust Schumer with: being hard and brutally effective when needed...or knowing how to grill a burger?
Quote from: Jockey on June 23, 2025, 10:39:42 AMWas this, as his niece suggested, just about ego because he was hurt over the TACO nickname?
This is the registered Democrat neice who has sued him, and he has countersued back, correct? I probably wouldn't put too much stock in that.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 23, 2025, 11:23:06 AMI'm sure that was a factor (poll numbers after LA too), but also insiders have mentioned he gets all of his "intelligence" from Fox News, and he was jealous of the praise being lavished on Bibi and wanted a piece of the action.
My post was meant as snark.
Yours has a chance of being very close to the truth.
Quote from: Jockey on June 23, 2025, 11:33:18 AMMy post was meant as snark.
Yours has a chance of being very close to the truth.
With Dear Leader, the lines of sarcasm and reality are so blurred these days.
Trump: "Our president (Obama) will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate."
Quote from: JWags85 on June 23, 2025, 11:26:25 AMWhat would you rather trust Schumer with: being hard and brutally effective when needed...or knowing how to grill a burger?
Depends...is he using American cheese? ;)
Quote from: JWags85 on June 22, 2025, 09:17:57 PMIf we had a savvier administration/diplomatic gamers, I would say maybe the back channels is actually the US/Iran agreeing to allow them to move the uranium to a different facility for whatever reason, while bombing the key sites to prove a point, show force and control to the world, and set the tone for a new calmer relationship in reaction to the strikes. But we don't have that sort of thing and everything that has come out after surely wouldn't remotely hint at that.
On a different point, I haven't found an intelligent POV on it, so I don't have any basis or thought out arguments for or against, but one thing I thought about while explaining everything thats occurred to my wife is...say there is no evidence or whatnot that Iran is building a nuke or is progressing in that direction. But they are insistent and unyielding about enriched uranium production, to the detriment of negotiations and feelings of peace. Is there an angle of concern that a third party, whether other Iran-funded groups, another nation, etc.. and Iran would be supplying them with enriched uranium, funding, resources/know how, etc... Its not a far out conspiracy theory given how Iran has had other parties do their dirty work for years giving plausible deniability and distance from actual violence and warfare.
It could be totally fantastical and a Jack Reacher plot point more than realistic scenario, but just something I thought about. And again, the current administration isn't given any indication or positioning that makes it seem like such a surreptitious situation is being proactively approached.
The problem is that people are assuming that Iran isn't being a rational actor. Giving their proxy groups a nuclear weapon would result in Iran's instant destruction. I think the idea that the mullahs would instantly nuke Israel off the map is foolish. Making sure that everyone knows they have that ability gives them more strength and flexibility.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 23, 2025, 12:19:44 PMThe problem is that people are assuming that Iran isn't being a rational actor. Giving their proxy groups a nuclear weapon would result in Iran's instant destruction. I think the idea that the mullahs would instantly nuke Israel off the map is foolish. Making sure that everyone knows they have that ability gives them more strength and flexibility.
Yep.
For Iran, getting a nuke is more about its ability to wield power over unfriendly Arab states than it is about some suicidal plan to disappear Israel.
It's all theater, apparently.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuJQypaXQAAlfZx?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Jockey on June 23, 2025, 12:13:26 PMTrump: "Our president (Obama) will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate."
"He's weak and he's ineffective," Trump says in the video. "So the only way he figures he's going to get re-elected is to start a war with Iran."
JD/Rubio/Hegseth: "It's about the nukes, not regime change"
*5 minutes later*
Trump: "We want regime change"
Quote from: Pakuni on June 23, 2025, 12:39:05 PMIt's all theater, apparently.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuJQypaXQAAlfZx?format=jpg&name=large)
So...that's it?
Quote from: The Sultan on June 23, 2025, 01:59:26 PMSo...that's it?
Makes me think US told Iran where the 3 bombings were going to be - allowing them time to move people/uranium to safety
Wouldn't be shocking for a WWE HOF'r. Maybe this was the real military parade.
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 23, 2025, 02:05:55 PMMakes me think US told Iran where the 3 bombings were going to be - allowing them time to move people/uranium to safety
Good use of the taxpayer money we saved from DOGE
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 23, 2025, 10:49:01 AMDon't you drive an electric vehicle?
No, I want to MAGA
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 23, 2025, 01:26:55 PMJD/Rubio/Hegseth: "It's about the nukes, not regime change"
*5 minutes later*
Trump: "We want regime change"
By tomorrow those guys will be saying "that's what I said. The media took it out of context".
Can you even imagine the supply of knee pads that are needed at the WH?
No. It is the same old song and dance.
The MODS must be really on vacation or their line in the sand on no politics has blown away.
Would the middle east be more stable if Iran had a nuke?
No.
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 23, 2025, 05:47:12 PMWould the middle east be more stable if Iran had a nuke?
Would the world be more stable with no nukes?
Quote from: tower912 on June 23, 2025, 05:28:25 PMNo. It is the same old song and dance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6C_nyZLQR8&list=RDY6C_nyZLQR8&start_radio=1
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 23, 2025, 05:47:12 PMWould the middle east be more stable if Iran had a nuke?
Is this a serious question?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2025, 07:23:33 PMWould the world be more stable with no nukes?
Is this a serious question?
Stable like the 20th c? When 200 million+ people were starved or slaughtered, not including the A-Bombs?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:31:10 PMIs this a serious question?
Stable like the 20th c? When 200 million+ people were starved or slaughtered, not including the A-Bombs?
.
If the world followed my 5-point plan, we wouldn't need nukes
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:30:52 PMIs this a serious question?
Yes. Rico doesn't ask unserious questions.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2025, 07:35:26 PM.
If the world followed my 5-point plan, we wouldn't need nukes
This thread literally reads like 97% of you want the Iranian govt. to kill Americans and Israelis. Essentially to prove this was a bad decision by the administration. Now, I would do far more than this, and am still concerned about cyber and terror cell attacks, but perhaps we should wait and see what transpires moving forward? Beyond that, I have a question: If Israel took out Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iranian terrorist proxies, before the Oct 7th attack, would have you criticized that or rip the Israeli government?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:41:56 PMThis thread literally reads like 97% of you want the Iranian govt. to kill Americans and Israelis. Essentially to prove this was a bad decision by the administration. Now, I would do far more than this, and am still concerned about cyber and terror cell attacks, but perhaps we should wait and see what transpires moving forward? Beyond that, I have a question: If Israel took out Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iranian terrorist proxies before
Great question
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:30:52 PMIs this a serious question?
Yes.
Iran wouldn't use it - it would guarantee their destruction.
It would, however, end forever war status and eliminate power imbalance.
Don't see anyone attacking north Korea, right?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:41:56 PMThis thread literally reads like 97% of you want the Iranian govt. to kill Americans and Israelis. Essentially to prove this was a bad decision by the administration. Now, I would do far more than this, and am still concerned about cyber and terror cell attacks, but perhaps we should wait and see what transpires moving forward? Beyond that, I have a question: If Israel took out Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iranian terrorist proxies before
Oh, I'm not worried about proving anything about what you mention. The proof is in the pudding and that pudding is missing it's key ingredient, my 5-point plan
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:41:56 PMThis thread literally reads like 97% of you want the Iranian govt. to kill Americans and Israelis. Essentially to prove this was a bad decision by the administration. Now, I would do far more than this, and am still concerned about cyber and terror cell attacks, but perhaps we should wait and see what transpires moving forward? Beyond that, I have a question: If Israel took out Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iranian terrorist proxies, before the Oct 7th attack, would have you criticized that or rip the Israeli government?
I would look far more favorably on those moves by Israel than the genocide they're committing against the Palestinians
Israel should ditch their nukes out of solidarity
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:41:56 PMThis thread literally reads like 97% of you want the Iranian govt. to kill Americans and Israelis. Essentially to prove this was a bad decision by the administration.
This is dumb.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:41:56 PMNow, I would do far more than this
Of course you would. You are a child with child-like ideas.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:41:56 PMperhaps we should wait and see what transpires moving forward?
Hey look! A rational thought. Right now this looks like everything is simmering down so that's exactly what we should do.
We should deport CSU coach Ali Farokhmanesh for that devastating nuke he dropped on Lawrence, Kansas and because his dad played for the Iranian National volleyball team
Quote from: The Sultan on June 23, 2025, 07:46:52 PMThis is dumb.
Of course you would. You are a child with child-like ideas.
Hey look! A rational thought. Right now this looks like everything is simmering down so that's exactly what we should do.
95% said Churchill was irrational, it didn't exactly turn out that way. Had we listened to Winston, we would have saved 100 million lives or more. Appeasement is a euphemism for dumpster fire, as is the name Neville.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:53:11 PM95% said Churchill was irrational, it didn't exactly turn out that way. Had we listened to Winston, we would have saved 100 million lives or more. Appeasement is a euphemism for dumpster fire, as is the name Neville.
Churchill 🤝 Netanyahu
Starving millions of brown people
Yes. Whoever starts the war is by definition the evil one. Nazis invading Europe. North Korea invading South Korea. Russia invading Ukraine. December 7. September 11. October 7. April 19, 1995. The entity that launched the first strike is by definition the one at fault. This is not a just war, by Catholic teaching.
Netanyahu and the Israeli govt was rightly criticized for being asleep at the wheel before the Oct 7th massacre. Again, had he preemptively taken out Hamas and Hezbollah, or even just Hamas, before that ignominious act, how would have most of you responded?
Quote from: tower912 on June 23, 2025, 07:59:44 PMYes. Whoever starts the war is by definition the evil one. Nazis invading Europe. North Korea invading South Korea. Russia invading Ukraine. December 7. September 11. October 7. April 19, 1995. The entity that launched the first strike is by definition the one at fault. This is not a just war, by Catholic teaching.
You're respectfully making an apples to oranges argument. If we "started a war" for example with Cambodia and Pol Pot in the 70's, or Sierra Leone and Rwanda in the 90's,, Mao and China during their cultural revolution, etc, etc, to save civilians from being slaughtered, would this have been a bad decision?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 08:01:03 PMNetanyahu and the Israeli govt was rightly criticized for being asleep at the wheel before the Oct 7th massacre. Again, had he preemptively taken out Hamas and Hezbollah, or even just Hamas, before that ignominious act, how would have most of you responded?
As opposed to, you know, actively propping them up?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:53:11 PM95% said Churchill was irrational, it didn't exactly turn out that way. Had we listened to Winston, we would have saved 100 million lives or more. Appeasement is a euphemism for dumpster fire, as is the name Neville.
First, nowhere close to that percentage said that about Churchill.
Second, 100 million? Gimme a break. The British and French were nowhere close to ready to take on Germany when they annexed Austria and the Sudentenland, especially when it was at peace with the Soviets.
If you're gonna use history, at least get it right. Or even close to getting it right.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 08:07:05 PMYou're respectfully making an apples to oranges argument. If we "started a war" for example with Cambodia and Pol Pot in the 70's, or Sierra Leone and Rwanda in the 90's,, Mao and China during their cultural revolution, etc, etc, to save civilians from being slaughtered, would this have been a bad decision?
Yes. The United States isn't responsible for fixing the atrocities of the world. That's what's gotten us into these messes to begin with.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 08:07:05 PMYou're respectfully making an apples to oranges argument. If we "started a war" for example with Cambodia and Pol Pot in the 70's, or Sierra Leone and Rwanda in the 90's,, Mao and China during their cultural revolution, etc, etc, to save civilians from being slaughtered, would this have been a bad decision?
Yes. Morally reprehensible. A violation of every treaty, every charter, and most of the commandments. The US would be the worst of rogue states and the rest of the world would rightly rise up.
Quote from: tower912 on June 23, 2025, 08:24:38 PMYes. Morally reprehensible. A violation of every treaty, every charter, and most of the commandments. The US would be the worst of rogue states and the rest of the world would rightly rise up.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 23, 2025, 08:21:32 PMYes. The United States isn't responsible for fixing the atrocities of the world. That's what's gotten us into these messes to begin with.
So Bosnia was a mistake? And letting Sierra Leone and Rwandan civilians get massacred was a good decision? That fake red-line with Assad was a good decision? I couldn't disagree more.
We've made idiotic decisions handling these atrocities and their scumbag despotic rulers. And you can add the asshead, animal poachers, and all those involved as well. If we have the ability to prevent ubiquitous massacres, we shouldn't do anything because....it's not our responsibility? I vehemently disagree.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 07:41:56 PMThis thread literally reads like 97% of you want the Iranian govt. to kill Americans and Israelis. Essentially to prove this was a bad decision by the administration.
Insulting, inaccurate and inane.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 08:07:05 PMYou're respectfully making an apples to oranges argument. If we "started a war" for example with Cambodia and Pol Pot in the 70's, or Sierra Leone and Rwanda in the 90's,, Mao and China during their cultural revolution, etc, etc, to save civilians from being slaughtered, would this have been a bad decision?
How many civilians are you willing to slaughter to save civilians from being slaughtered? Because in every major military conflict since the turn of the century, civilians have accounted for a significant percentage - and often majority - of the casualties.
You cannot prevent them. That is some 'Minority Report', AI overlord bullshyte. Like a gunman with no prior criminal record. They aren't a criminal until they threaten someone with that gun. A leader of a sovereign nation is not a murderer until he actually murders someone. And at the international level, it is not possible or feasible to go around eliminating every leader our country finds offensive. Because if the USA can do it, what stops another country from eliminating the leader of this country?
Then you have the end of the world.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 23, 2025, 05:31:35 PMThe MODS must be really on vacation or their line in the sand on no politics has blown away.
The rule is liberals can say whatever they wish on Scoop
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 23, 2025, 08:59:34 PMThe rule is liberals can say whatever they wish on Scoop
#FakeNews #Lies
#JayBeeplaysthevictimcardworsethanhedoespickleball
More than 3 times as many Americans believe the Chupacabra exists than want war with Iran
Quote from: Pakuni on June 23, 2025, 08:41:12 PMHow many civilians are you willing to slaughter to save civilians from being slaughtered? Because in every major military conflict since the turn of the century, civilians have accounted for a significant percentage - and often majority - of the casualties.
https://youtu.be/fYHTrxWZmwk?si=ujd5_FGinzLTKTK0
Quote from: MU82 on June 23, 2025, 08:37:58 PMInsulting, inaccurate and inane.
Well, the way it reads to me, is that the vast, vast, majority of people here are far more upset about our strike on Iranian nuclear sites than they were on Oct 7, 2023.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 23, 2025, 09:12:19 PMMore than 3 times as many Americans believe the Chupacabra exists than want war with Iran
What about Santa Claus?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 23, 2025, 08:41:12 PMHow many civilians are you willing to slaughter to save civilians from being slaughtered? Because in every major military conflict since the turn of the century, civilians have accounted for a significant percentage - and often majority - of the casualties.
I'm for stopping as many civilian lives as possible. There is a misnomer that appeasement in certain situations accomplishes this goal. You can definitely debate whether we should have dropped the two A-Bombs in 1945, but warfare is much different today. What I will say is I'm 100% pro eliminating scumbag dictators, and their proxies, who essentially subjugate their own people and are pure evil. My methods may be controversial, but this is how I feel.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 09:48:57 PMWell, the way it reads to me, is that the vast, vast, majority of people here are far more upset about our strike on Iranian nuclear sites than they were on Oct 7, 2023.
But do you denounce Boko Haram?
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 23, 2025, 10:00:45 PMBut do you denounce Boko Haram?
You're gosh damn right I do. I have a lengthy list of people I denounce.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 10:00:01 PMI'm for stopping as many civilian lives as possible. There is a misnomer that appeasement in certain situations accomplishes this goal. You can definitely debate whether we should have dropped the two A-Bombs in 1945, but warfare is much different today. What I will say is I'm 100% pro eliminating scumbag dictators, and their proxies, who essentially subjugate their own people and are pure evil. My methods may be controversial, but this is how I feel.
So, when do we invade Saudi Arabia and Russia?
M
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 10:00:01 PMI'm for stopping as many civilian lives as possible. There is a misnomer that appeasement in certain situations accomplishes this goal. You can definitely debate whether we should have dropped the two A-Bombs in 1945, but warfare is much different today. What I will say is I'm 100% pro eliminating scumbag dictators, and their proxies, who essentially subjugate their own people and are pure evil. My methods may be controversial, but this is how I feel.
Tell us about your military service. Surely you were in special forces in one of the branches of the military, risking your life to eliminate those scumbags.
Im
Quote from: Pakuni on June 23, 2025, 10:06:42 PMSo, when do we invade Saudi Arabia and Russia?
I'm not for invasion, I'm for eliminating worldwide problems/fkbags. That includes completely decimating these governments economically. Now ideally I would have Denzel, Bronson, Neeson, and Beekeeper type dudes solving these issues quickly, but understand it's a little more complicated with some of them.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 23, 2025, 10:14:17 PMM
Tell us about your military service. Surely you were in special forces in one of the branches of the military, risking your life to eliminate those scumbags.
I never said I was in the Delta Force. That's irrelevant.
BTW,
On numerous, numerous, occasions Bill Clinton stated his biggest regret was not acting in Rwanda and Sierra Leone.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 10:19:47 PMIm
I'm not for invasion, I'm for eliminating worldwide problems/fkbags. That includes completely decimating these governments economically. Now ideally I would have Denzel, Bronson, Neeson, and Beekeeper type dudes solving these issues quickly, but understand it's a little more complicated with some of them.
Muggs, even giving you the benefit of the doubt. The minute you start bringing up FICTIONAL MOVIE PROTAGONISTS to buttress a plan for violence driven world peace, you lose most all credibility in the most generous of lens.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 10:21:10 PMI never said I was in the Delta Force. That's irrelevant.
Simple question ...did you serve in the military in any way?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 09:48:57 PMWell, the way it reads to me, is that the vast, vast, majority of people here are far more upset about our strike on Iranian nuclear sites than they were on Oct 7, 2023.
Dirty Harry, the Sundance Kid and Rambo say you don't know how to read.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 23, 2025, 10:40:21 PMMuggs, even giving you the benefit of the doubt. The minute you start bringing up FICTIONAL MOVIE PROTAGONISTS to buttress a plan for violence driven world peace, you lose most all credibility in the most generous of lens.
As I said, he is a child, with childlike vibes.
The only outcomes from all of this (that killed a lot of civilians is):
1. Trump and Netanyahu can boast they took out Iran's nuclear capabilities...that they weren't pursuing and that weren't taken out because they were warned ahead of time.
2. The Iranian clerics can claim they forced Israel and the US into a cease fire by their attacks on US bases...that did nothing and were intentionally warned of ahead of time.
As a result, unpopular leaders can try to strengthen their governments through propaganda.
And, Iran will likely now pursue a nuclear weapon for real, and can have one in less than a year. Iran will also bolster their military, build more missiles, better air defense systems, and next time if they think they can do damage to Israel will attack unilaterally as revenge. In the meantime, they will use proxies to attack the US and Israel.
So, world is in a more dangerous place.
Quote from: tower912 on June 23, 2025, 08:52:44 PMYou cannot prevent them. That is some 'Minority Report', AI overlord bullshyte. Like a gunman with no prior criminal record. They aren't a criminal until they threaten someone with that gun. A leader of a sovereign nation is not a murderer until he actually murders someone. And at the international level, it is not possible or feasible to go around eliminating every leader our country finds offensive. Because if the USA can do it, what stops another country from eliminating the leader of this country?
Then you have the end of the world.
We could prevent a lot of things with my 5-point plan
Or we can tweet in all caps
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2025, 07:52:11 AMOr we can tweet in all caps
IT'S A TRUTH NOT A TWEET!
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 23, 2025, 10:19:47 PMIm
I'm not for invasion, I'm for eliminating worldwide problems/fkbags. That includes completely decimating these governments economically. Now ideally I would have Denzel, Bronson, Neeson, and Beekeeper type dudes solving these issues quickly, but understand it's a little more complicated with some of them.
You don't seem to understand how the world works - at all. Eliminating individuals does not solve problems. Are you naive enough to think that if Hitler was somehow assasinated early on that WWII would have been avoided? The Holocaust too?
Quote from: JWags85 on June 23, 2025, 10:40:21 PMMuggs, even giving you the benefit of the doubt. The minute you start bringing up FICTIONAL MOVIE PROTAGONISTS to buttress a plan for violence driven world peace, you lose most all credibility in the most generous of lens.
That's why I stated "ideally" whick is a bit tounge and cheek. I understand these are movies. I'm just saying it would be welcomed if it was possible .
Quote from: The Sultan on June 24, 2025, 07:57:19 AMYou don't seem to understand how the world works - at all. Eliminating individuals does not solve problems. Are you naive enough to think that if Hitler was somehow assasinated early on that WWII would have been avoided? The Holocaust too?
Yes, I think if Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and other fkbags were stopped early a tremendous amount of lives would have been saved.
Lot of chatter that the Ayatollah is going to be removed. Whether that means anything given its a push by the current government and not the result of an internal revolution remains to be seen, but the most optimistic viewpoint could hope that it means some sort of positive change in Tehran. If only by moving on from a 90 year old hard line fundamentalist despot who has been in power for 35+ years.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 24, 2025, 08:22:13 AMLot of chatter that the Ayatollah is going to be removed. Whether that means anything given its a push by the current government and not the result of an internal revolution remains to be seen, but the most optimistic viewpoint could hope that it means some sort of positive change in Tehran. If only by moving on from a 90 year old hard line fundamentalist despot who has been in power for 35+ years.
Will it matter if the US/Israel doesn't approve of the new chosen leader?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 24, 2025, 08:10:48 AMYes, I think if Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and other fkbags were stopped early a tremendous amount of lives would have been saved.
Very simplistic and likely very false.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 24, 2025, 08:32:29 AMVery simplistic and likely very false.
What if Eve hadn't been tempted?
Quote from: forgetful on June 24, 2025, 05:48:41 AMAnd, Iran will likely now pursue a nuclear weapon for real, and can have one in less than a year. Iran will also bolster their military, build more missiles, better air defense systems, and next time if they think they can do damage to Israel will attack unilaterally as revenge. In the meantime, they will use proxies to attack the US and Israel.
They will need a lot of help from Russia and/or China to accomplish this, and sure, maybe they'll get it.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2025, 07:52:11 AMOr we can tweet in all caps
Did you happen to catch that the White House occupant referred to himself as
DONAKD J. TRUMP a couple days ago? Thakt's hilarikus!
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 23, 2025, 05:31:35 PMThe MODS must be really on vacation or their line in the sand on no politics has blown away.
I was. What did I miss?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 24, 2025, 08:10:48 AMYes, I think if Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and other fkbags were stopped early a tremendous amount of lives would have been saved.
The "Great Man" theory of history has been largely debunked.
Here's an interesting summary from German Lopez of the NYT:
Trump at first claimed that American bombs obliterated Iran's nuclear program. So far, though, much remains unsettled:
Did the U.S. strikes destroy their targets? American officials say that U.S. bombs and missiles did "severe" damage to Iran's nuclear facilities. But we still don't know much about their effect, particularly on Fordo, where Iran enriches uranium. The military had previously claimed that it could wipe out the site with just two bunker-busting bombs; it ultimately dropped a dozen.
Officials may not get answers for days or weeks, if ever. The same trait that makes Fordo so hard to strike — that it's deep underground — also makes gauging its status difficult.
Does Iran have a secret enrichment facility? Before the U.S. attacks, Iran said that it had built a new enrichment site, its third, "in a secure and invulnerable location." The facility is possibly under a mountain, similar to Fordo. If it's up and running with the newest centrifuges, it could enrich uranium for nuclear weapons within months.
Where is Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium? American officials concede that they don't know. Iran might have moved it before the strikes, given all the warnings about a looming U.S. attack. The 880 pounds of uranium — enough to fit in the trunks of 10 cars — is enriched to 60 percent purity, below the 90 percent used in nuclear weapons, David Sanger, who covers national security, reported.
Will Iran rebuild? Its leaders may decide that the pursuit of nuclear weapons is futile — that Israel and the United States will simply destroy anything Iran creates. But after seeing how easily Israel and America blew through its defenses, Iran may instead conclude the opposite: that the best way to protect itself is a nuclear deterrent. After all, that strategy has recently worked for Russia and North Korea.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 24, 2025, 07:57:19 AMYou don't seem to understand how the world works - at all. Eliminating individuals does not solve problems. Are you naive enough to think that if Hitler was somehow assasinated early on that WWII would have been avoided? The Holocaust too?
Wow, insanity seems to reside comfortably in your mind.
Quote from: MU82 on June 24, 2025, 10:35:27 AMDid you happen to catch that the White House occupant referred to himself as DONAKD J. TRUMP a couple days ago? Thakt's hilarikus!
^^^ ban worthy multiple times a day. It's pathetic.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 24, 2025, 11:51:19 AMWow, insanity seems to reside comfortably in your mind.
Nope. I am a student of history. It's simple to blame one person because people want to personify evil into one character. But in reality, people like Hitler are representative of larger dynamics at play within a nation at large. Sure a charasmatic figure can take advantage of that or push it further, but getting rid of that leader rarely makes the underlying society change.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 24, 2025, 12:07:31 PM^^^ ban worthy multiple times a day. It's pathetic.
Perhaps not politics, but you've been reported as much as or more than MU82 the past few weeks. Glass house and all...pathetic.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 24, 2025, 12:19:05 PMPerhaps not politics, but you've been reported as much as or more than MU82 the past few weeks. Glass house and all...pathetic.
If I posted my 5-point plan, I'd get banned
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 24, 2025, 12:19:05 PMPerhaps not politics, but you've been reported as much as or more than MU82 the past few weeks. Glass house and all...pathetic.
"Perhaps not politics", yet the one Pinned post in The Superbar is by you... "Politics ban warning". lol
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 24, 2025, 11:02:05 AMI was. What did I miss?
The triumphant return of the 5 point plan
Which apparently involves John Wick and a time machine.
To be fair, continuously posting graphic homosexual innuendos about a poster isn't political.
Just kinda unsettling
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 24, 2025, 12:38:10 PM"Perhaps not politics", yet the one Pinned post in The Superbar is by you... "Politics ban warning". lol
Politics bans happen all the time, some happened today. But it's only one reason people get banned. Being consistently insufferable is another reason, it earned Chicos his lifetime respite.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 24, 2025, 12:15:28 PMNope. I am a student of history. It's simple to blame one person because people want to personify evil into one character. But in reality, people like Hitler are representative of larger dynamics at play within a nation at large. Sure a charasmatic figure can take advantage of that or push it further, but getting rid of that leader rarely makes the underlying society change.
I remember reading an account of a British sniper team having found a perfect place to take out Hitler prewar, but they decided to not go ahead with the plan.
The Muggsy solution would have been to proceed with the operation. Making
assumptions as to the outcome-war avoided! Nazism collapses! The German nation sees the evil of its way! - is ridiculous. A more stable leader taking over may have avoided the decision to invade Russia and instead finished off England while it was on the ropes or built an atomic bomb long before the US did. Yes,
pure speculation on my part, but at least I am identifying it as such.
If Putin is assassinated, there is no reason to assume that Russia will be less of a threat under whomever replaces him. Things could get much worse. Or not. No one knows.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 24, 2025, 12:49:53 PMI remember reading an account of a British sniper team having found a perfect place to take out Hitler prewar, but they decided to not go ahead with the plan.
The Muggsy solution would have been to proceed with the operation. Making assumptions as to the outcome-war avoided! Nazism collapses! The German nation sees the evil of its way! - is ridiculous. A more stable leader taking over may have avoided the decision to invade Russia and instead finished off England while it was on the ropes or built an atomic bomb long before the US did. Yes, pure speculation on my part, but at least I am identifying it as such.
If Putin is assassinated, there is no reason to assume that Russia will be less of a threat under whomever replaces him. Things could get much worse. Or not. No one knows.
Did we end up delaying the end of the Ayatollah Khamenei regime because we 5 point planned the very popular Soleimani while he was in Iraq?
Who knows, but that certainly did not improve the opinion of America for the Iranian public.
https://x.com/daddyhope/status/1937306685066101070?t=vDaEfA8x_hLsM-xCCcJ6Bw&s=19
https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1937593567188242766
AND:
https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1937591556443193458
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 24, 2025, 02:51:19 PMhttps://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1937593567188242766
Of course that's what The Swamp
TM would say.
Wait, I thought they agreed to a cease-fire? :o :o :o
Why is anyone here surprised by the prior announcement of the bombings? This same guy negotiated a withdrawal from Afghanistan with the Taliban with a timetable for the American departure in 2021. He also invited them to Camp David in 9/19 but withdrew the invitation at the last minute (they had accepted) after being angered by a Taliban attack that killed 12 Americans.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 24, 2025, 03:09:08 PMWhy is anyone here surprised by the prior announcement of the bombings? This same guy negotiated a withdrawal from Afghanistan with the Taliban with a timetable for the American departure in 2021. He also invited them to Camp David in 9/19 but withdrew the invitation at the last minute (they had accepted) after being angered by a Taliban attack that killed 12 Americans.
One correction - It was an ISIS attack that killed 12 Americans.
The Taliban and ISIS actually hate each other.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 24, 2025, 03:38:55 PMOne correction - It was an ISIS attack that killed 12 Americans.
The Taliban and ISIS actually hate each other.
OK. I rechecked the various accounts. Apparently, the Taliban took credit for a car bomb attack in Kabul. I'm guessing you are saying that particular attack was by ISIS.
Anyhow....an American president inviting the Taliban to Camp David is something I never, ever would have expected. Maybe he will invite the Israelis and Iranians there to play a few rounds of golf with him.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 24, 2025, 03:48:53 PMOK. I rechecked the various accounts. Apparently, the Taliban took credit for a car bomb attack in Kabul. I'm guessing you are saying that particular attack was by ISIS.
Anyhow....an American president inviting the Taliban to Camp David is something I never, ever would have expected. Maybe he will invite the Israelis and Iranians there to play a few rounds of golf with him.
Nobody ever negotiated as bigly with the Taliban
nm
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 24, 2025, 02:51:19 PMhttps://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1937593567188242766
More like DEI assessment
I really don't want to ban more people. Please control yourselves.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 24, 2025, 04:09:58 PMI really don't want to ban more people. Please control yourselves.
War, what is it good for?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2025, 04:11:54 PMWar, what is it good for?
The original title of War and Peace, but Tolstoy listened to his mistress and changed it.
Quality Seinfeld reference.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 24, 2025, 03:48:53 PMOK. I rechecked the various accounts. Apparently, the Taliban took credit for a car bomb attack in Kabul. I'm guessing you are saying that particular attack was by ISIS.
Anyhow....an American president inviting the Taliban to Camp David is something I never, ever would have expected. Maybe he will invite the Israelis and Iranians there to play a few rounds of golf with him.
I totally agree with you on the Taliban invite.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 25, 2025, 05:14:43 AMI totally agree with you on the Taliban invite.
The Taliban gets a bad rap. They do a lot of good things
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 25, 2025, 06:50:43 AMThe Taliban gets a bad rap. They do a lot of good things
They're people who live their faith.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 25, 2025, 11:01:52 AMThey're people who live their faith.
Right? Women know their places, pronouns don't exist and LGQBT doesn't exist. The dream of some scoopers
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2025, 08:43:33 AMWhat if Eve hadn't been tempted?
There would no longer be an annual SI Swimsuit issue, alas.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 25, 2025, 06:50:43 AMThe Taliban gets a bad rap. They do a lot of good things
They considerably reduced average number of students per classroom. That's got to be good for learning.
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on June 26, 2025, 01:19:13 PMThey considerably reduced average number of students per classroom. That's got to be good for learning.
It says right in the Bible women and people that don't own property shouldn't get an education
Guess we're not taking the oil in an attempt to help Iran who fought the war very well.
I'm sure we can rely on our closest ally to respect our wishes for a ceasefire with Iran. Surely.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-ordered-to-shoot-deliberately-at-unarmed-gazans-waiting-for-humanitarian-aid/00000197-ad8e-de01-a39f-ffbe33780000
Quote from: Shaka Shart on June 27, 2025, 09:36:14 AMI'm sure we can rely on our closest ally to respect our wishes for a ceasefire with Iran. Surely.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-ordered-to-shoot-deliberately-at-unarmed-gazans-waiting-for-humanitarian-aid/00000197-ad8e-de01-a39f-ffbe33780000
Israel is a terrorist state.
Quote from: Jockey on June 27, 2025, 11:03:23 AMIsrael is a terrorist state.
Well, America has never shied away from cozying up to those
Quote from: Jockey on June 27, 2025, 11:03:23 AMIsrael is a terrorist state.
And Bibi needs to go on trial as a war criminal
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2025, 11:04:25 AMWell, America has never shied away from cozying up to those
We love war criminals - as long as they are OUR war criminals.
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on June 27, 2025, 11:04:33 AMAnd Bibi needs to go on trial as a war criminal
Good news is, Israeli courts ruled he has to go to trial for his corruption. Hopefully, for Israel, he ends up in jail sooner than later.
Quote from: Jockey on June 27, 2025, 11:16:45 AMWe love war criminals - as long as they are OUR war criminals.
Our support of the Shah worked out well.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2025, 11:18:03 AMOur support of the Shah worked out well.
Oil company profits turned out fine what's the issue
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2025, 11:17:37 AMGood news is, Israeli courts ruled he has to go to trial for his corruption. Hopefully, for Israel, he ends up in jail sooner than later.
he has been facing trial for how many years now?
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on June 27, 2025, 11:59:24 AMhe has been facing trial for how many years now?
Well, he's been corrupt for years. Weirdly, voters across the world like that thing.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2025, 12:15:14 PMWell, he's been corrupt for years. Weirdly, voters across the world like that thing.
Corruption is fine if the corrupt ones hate the same color of skin and religion as I do.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2025, 11:17:37 AMGood news is, Israeli courts ruled he has to go to trial for his corruption. Hopefully, for Israel, he ends up in jail sooner than later.
Dictators don't go to jail.
Quote from: Jockey on June 27, 2025, 12:24:05 PMDictators don't go to jail.
Especially when they can count on corrupt courts
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2025, 12:28:16 PMEspecially when they can count on corrupt courts
Unfortunately for him, Richard "When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal" Nixon was just ahead of his time
I'm old enough to remember when giving billions of dollars to Iran was a bad thing.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2025, 12:15:14 PMWell, he's been corrupt for years. Weirdly, voters across the world like that thing.
The next leader will be better. Always is.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 27, 2025, 04:12:20 PMThe next leader will be better. Always is.
Than Netanyahu? For certain
I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you...
https://x.com/ZcohenCNN/status/1938683947808104587?t=11wQHHeXq3A7vc1yGVDI0A&s=19
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 27, 2025, 06:39:03 PMI'm shocked. Shocked I tell you...
https://x.com/ZcohenCNN/status/1938683947808104587?t=11wQHHeXq3A7vc1yGVDI0A&s=19
Who you gonna trust?
A drunk or the liberal media?
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 27, 2025, 06:39:03 PMI'm shocked. Shocked I tell you...
https://x.com/ZcohenCNN/status/1938683947808104587?t=11wQHHeXq3A7vc1yGVDI0A&s=19
Lindsey calls for a ground invasion 8' 3...2...1...
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 27, 2025, 06:39:03 PMI'm shocked. Shocked I tell you...
https://x.com/ZcohenCNN/status/1938683947808104587?t=11wQHHeXq3A7vc1yGVDI0A&s=19
Probably a dumb question, but then why target it in the first place?
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 27, 2025, 09:03:31 PMProbably a dumb question, but then why target it in the first place?
Green weenie aina?
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 27, 2025, 09:03:31 PMProbably a dumb question, but then why target it in the first place?
Because perceptions are important.
Basically, the Israeli attack on Iran was playing well on Fox News, so we had to get a piece of that.
In doing so, our government committed crimes against the constitution, embarrassed itself globally and accomplished nothing from a strategic standpoint.
Anti-war politicians sold themselves out again to say "beautiful gambit, sir" (both sides, folks) and for what?
We need a serious cleansing on both sides of the political aisle.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 28, 2025, 06:06:27 AMBecause perceptions are important.
Believe deeply enough in a perception without questioning its substance or veracity and it becomes one's personal reality.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 28, 2025, 07:26:52 AMBasically, the Israeli attack on Iran was playing well on Fox News, so we had to get a piece of that.
In doing so, our government committed crimes against the constitution, embarrassed itself globally and accomplished nothing from a strategic standpoint.
Anti-war politicians sold themselves out again to say "beautiful gambit, sir" (both sides, folks) and for what?
We need a serious cleansing on both sides of the political aisle.
This is it exactly. People inside the military expressed concern that the White House was only getting "intelligence" from Fox News, that there are no more written intelligence reports because the POTUS doesn't want to read, only watch.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 28, 2025, 07:26:52 AMWe need a serious cleansing on both sides of the political aisle.
As long as Schumer and Jeffries are in charge, the Dems will get $0 dollars from me. Mean letters are not a stategery.
It's funny. Dems are more scared of the NYC results than the Rs. Let's blow up the old guard in '26. Hogg was 100% correct.
Quote from: Jockey on June 28, 2025, 10:15:26 AMAs long as Schumer and Jeffries are in charge, the Dems will get $0 dollars from me. Mean letters are not a stategery.
It's funny. Dems are more scared of the NYC results than the Rs. Let's blow up the old guard in '26. Hogg was 100% correct.
Giving them money is a waste. Losers, all of them
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 22, 2025, 01:04:36 PMOK,
Pardon my cynicism but:
1) The Iranians already blame us for the attacks Israel made on Iran. We're viewed by Iran as fighting a proxy war using Israel, just as they use Hezbollah and Hamas as a proxy to attack Israel.We were up to our eyeballs in Iranian hatred long before we bombed anything.
2) While it is debatable how far Iran was from actually building a functioning nuclear bomb, the fact is it was coming. You don't build a hardened shelter 300 feet under a mountain unless you're doing something you really want to protect -- and hide.
3) For the Iranians, diplomacy is a stalling technique. Yes, I'd like it to work as much as anyone in here. But I have a difficult time trusting the diplomacy of a country constantly screaming "Death to America" and "Death to Israel", all the while supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.
4) I said this before and I'll say it again: "If Iran gets the bomb, to where do you think it will be aimed?" And, for the record, the Iranians are not particularly popular with the rest of the Muslim Middle East.
Bottom Line: Between the U.S. and Israel, we set the Iranian bomb program back more than 20 years. Sure, Iran will be angry and they may try to retaliate, but if they do, the retribution that can be foisted on their country by the American military makes what Israel's done to date look like a fireworks show. I'm confident the Mullahs know this and will be extremely careful.
We cannot think of Iran -- or any part of the Middle East for that matter -- in American or Western terms. These are countries incapable of a pluralistic society. They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe. That's why all the peace initiatives, save one, haven't worked.
Brain dead old political propaganda drilled into your head for 70 years.
1. They should. We provide material help to Israel because they're our defacto colony in the Middle East. Plus, the US sort of overthrew their democratically elected secular government in the 50s, and then backed Saddam in the 80s... who used chemical weapons.
2. Can you blame them? The US/Israel coalition has claimed that Iran is always two weeks away from having one. And after signing an agreement to not create one, the US decided that deal wasn't good enough because it wasn't our Dear Leader's idea. So, no deal, why wouldn't they enrich? We've seen what happens when your a country without a nuke (Ukraine) when a belligerent power wants something.
3. Your lack of trust in them is because they chant, "Death to America" and "Death to Israel"? I thought actions speak louder than words. Has Iran directly attacked the USA? Sure, there are proxies, but we use those too. Plus, even this boomer figured it out.
4. Defensively. They're not going to drop a nuclear weapon on Israel. Don't be stupid. Doing that would cause the country to be destroyed by everyone. Not to mention, it is strictly forbidden to use a nuclear weapon offensively by Islam.
You've been spoon fed lies by the US government for decades. They've wanted to "deal" with Iran since the Islamic Revolution because they're the lone hold out in the ME who had the audacity to throw off the yoke of Western Imperialism. Having said that, I find the rule of the Iranian government to be autocratic, and in not so many words "not good", but I also find a lot of governments around the world to be "not good". That doesn't mean we should be unilaterally bombing them.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 24, 2025, 08:10:48 AMYes, I think if Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and other fkbags were stopped early a tremendous amount of lives would have been saved.
What about Kennedy? He started the Vietnam war that resulted in the lives of millions of civilians being snuffed out. And then Johnson and Nixon continued. Ford supported a genocide in Indonesia, and Carter as well. Reagan had Iran-Iraq and he armed the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan. Bush Sr. was the head of the CIA. Literally every US President has participated or allowed lives to be lost. That's the job. They're all fkbags who should have been stopped... your definition, not mine.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 24, 2025, 12:15:28 PMNope. I am a student of history. It's simple to blame one person because people want to personify evil into one character. But in reality, people like Hitler are representative of larger dynamics at play within a nation at large. Sure a charasmatic figure can take advantage of that or push it further, but getting rid of that leader rarely makes the underlying society change.
Wait until some of these guys learn who we collaborated with after WWII. Not to mention, we were nearly an ally of Nazi Germany in the late 30s and early 40s. We didn't work very hard to Denazify Germany. Operation Paperclip? Certainly, no one should look up these names:
Adolf Heusinger - Chairman of NATO
Klaus Barbie - US CIC
I could go on and on, but here is another list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Germans_relocated_to_the_US_via_the_Operation_Paperclip
Quote from: Hards Alumni on July 07, 2025, 07:02:02 AMBrain dead old political propaganda drilled into your head for 70 years.
1. They should. We provide material help to Israel because they're our defacto colony in the Middle East. Plus, the US sort of overthrew their democratically elected secular government in the 50s, and then backed Saddam in the 80s... who used chemical weapons.
2. Can you blame them? The US/Israel coalition has claimed that Iran is always two weeks away from having one. And after signing an agreement to not create one, the US decided that deal wasn't good enough because it wasn't our Dear Leader's idea. So, no deal, why wouldn't they enrich? We've seen what happens when your a country without a nuke (Ukraine) when a belligerent power wants something.
3. Your lack of trust in them is because they chant, "Death to America" and "Death to Israel"? I thought actions speak louder than words. Has Iran directly attacked the USA? Sure, there are proxies, but we use those too. Plus, even this boomer figured it out.
4. Defensively. They're not going to drop a nuclear weapon on Israel. Don't be stupid. Doing that would cause the country to be destroyed by everyone. Not to mention, it is strictly forbidden to use a nuclear weapon offensively by Islam.
You've been spoon fed lies by the US government for decades. They've wanted to "deal" with Iran since the Islamic Revolution because they're the lone hold out in the ME who had the audacity to throw off the yoke of Western Imperialism. Having said that, I find the rule of the Iranian government to be autocratic, and in not so many words "not good", but I also find a lot of governments around the world to be "not good". That doesn't mean we should be unilaterally bombing them.
Hadn't seen that video before. That is really good.
Ope
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/11/magazine/benjamin-netanyahu-gaza-war.html?unlocked_article_code=1.V08.k78y.0eMbNotFcozC&smid=url-share
Quote from: Shaka Shart on July 12, 2025, 11:38:09 AMOpe
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/11/magazine/benjamin-netanyahu-gaza-war.html?unlocked_article_code=1.V08.k78y.0eMbNotFcozC&smid=url-share
Reminders of the hostage crisis in 1980.
Israeli settlers beat a 20-year-old American to death while another man was fatally shot during a violent confrontation in the occupied West Bank on Friday.
Well, I guess we know what side Elmo is on
When did Elmo move to Mequon?
Quote from: Shaka Shart on July 12, 2025, 11:38:09 AMOpe
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/11/magazine/benjamin-netanyahu-gaza-war.html?unlocked_article_code=1.V08.k78y.0eMbNotFcozC&smid=url-share
few leaders have squandered the amount of goodwill they had across the globe as Netanyahu has.