Having just gone through the process, Porky found this NY Times article, published on 5/1 (Decision Day) fascinating, but unfortunately not surprising.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/01/business/college-tuition-price-consultants.html?searchResultPosition=1
Tell us which school Piglet chose. I'm happy for him no matter what school it is.
Yep. This article is very well done...and accurate. I am sure that Marquette uses either RNL or EAB, if not both.
What I'm willing to pay for the New York Times is Zero.
Anyone care to paste the article?
Quote from: WarriorFan on May 06, 2025, 09:25:35 AMWhat I'm willing to pay for the New York Times is Zero.
Anyone care to paste the article?
No
Brother Porky:
The minute a family fills out a FAFSA, colleges and tuition folks know everything about you. Period. When my daughter was accepted, I thought, "what the hell, I'll fill it out. You never know!"
What the university and the FAFSA people said I could afford for college bore absolutely no relationship to what I could actually pay to send my children to school. What they said I could afford was far higher than the all-in cost of my daughter's college and would have required my wife, son, and I to live under a bridge of the Kennedy Expressway.
When my son went to college, I was used to fill out the FAFSA again. I simply said, "no way... we are not getting anything anyway, so what's the point?"
Quote from: WarriorFan on May 06, 2025, 09:25:35 AMWhat I'm willing to pay for the New York Times is Zero.
Anyone care to paste the article?
If you don't buy your kid 500 pencils and 37 dolls, you can afford to read award-winning journalism.
Quote from: dgies9156 on May 06, 2025, 11:28:02 AMBrother Porky:
The minute a family fills out a FAFSA, colleges and tuition folks know everything about you. Period. When my daughter was accepted, I thought, "what the hell, I'll fill it out. You never know!"
What the university and the FAFSA people said I could afford for college bore absolutely no relationship to what I could actually pay to send my children to school. What they said I could afford was far higher than the all-in cost of my daughter's college and would have required my wife, son, and I to live under a bridge of the Kennedy Expressway.
When my son went to college, I was used to fill out the FAFSA again. I simply said, "no way... we are not getting anything anyway, so what's the point?"
Here in New Jersey many of our 4 years institutions (even Princeton) will accept 2 or even 3 years of course work from our community colleges. The average tuition for our community colleges is about 15K per year. Depending on the course of study and the 4 year institution you choose you can get a BA/BS degree for under a 100k and no more than 250K even if you attend Princeton for 2 years. There are ways to get an affordable college education without going into high debt and paying high tuition costs at 4 year schools.
If our 4 year institutions were the lenders of student debt I would bet the cost of education would be considerably lower, but since they are not the sky is the limit.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 12:35:14 PMHere in New Jersey many of our 4 years institutions (even Princeton) will accept 2 or even 3 years of course work from our community colleges. The average tuition for our community colleges is about 15K per year. Depending on the course of study and the 4 year institution you choose you can get a BA/BS degree for under a 100k and no more than 250K even if you attend Princeton for 2 years. There are ways to get an affordable college education without going into high debt and paying high tuition costs at 4 year schools.
If our 4 year institutions were the lenders of student debt I would bet the cost of education would be considerably lower, but since they are not the sky is the limit.
Princeton provides free education - including tuition and room/board - for students from families with annual incomes of $100K or less.
They have joined numerous Ivy League and other top universities in this practice, with some (including Harvard) offering free tuition to those from families earning $200K or less.
Quote from: MU82 on May 06, 2025, 12:42:53 PMPrinceton provides free education - including tuition and room/board - for students from families with annual incomes of $100K or less.
They have joined numerous Ivy League and other top universities in this practice, with some (including Harvard) offering free tuition to those from families earning $200K or less.
I stand corrected. However, going forward it look like most will attend Princeton free of charge. Perhaps my granddaughter will be accepted in 2029 and sadly a hell of a lot cheaper than Marquette. If not, there is the community college route.
https://profile.princeton.edu/numbers
I wish the Ivies had something similar going back when I was applying for college.
Would have been nice to get rejected by schools I could have afforded!
Quote from: MU82 on May 06, 2025, 01:29:30 PMI wish the Ivies had something similar going back when I was applying for college.
Would have been nice to get rejected by schools I could have afforded!
My working-class parents could afford Marquette paying full sticker price when I attended. Not today. I would have gone to Rutgers only two miles from home otherwise which was 20 percent less not counting R&B. A lot more of us were getting accepted than rejected from places we could afford without grants and partial scholarships which is better than getting accepted to a school you can't afford offering degrees that have lost their value in the marketplace.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 02:28:35 PMMy working-class parents could afford Marquette paying full sticker price when I attended. Not today. I would have gone to Rutgers only two miles from home otherwise which was 20 percent less not counting R&B. A lot more of us were getting accepted than rejected from places we could afford without grants and partial scholarships which is better than getting accepted to a school you can't afford offering degrees that have lost their value in the marketplace.
Bonus: You weren't distracted by screens, because there were no computers or cellphones, and there were only a few TV channels. Plus, you got to enjoy turning the news on the radio and hearing about all the poor, young, American men dying in Vietnam. Good times!
The world has changed in the 50 years your generation has been in charge.
Quote from: tower912 on May 06, 2025, 04:08:21 PMThe world has changed in the 50 years your generation has been in charge.
now a summer job pays for the student activity fee
Quote from: MU82 on May 06, 2025, 02:54:08 PMBonus: You weren't distracted by screens, because there were no computers or cellphones, and there were only a few TV channels. Plus, you got to enjoy turning the news on the radio and hearing about all the poor, young, American men dying in Vietnam. Good times!
Now young Americans are dying from Fentanyl, not good times.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 05:00:27 PMNow young Americans are dying from Fentanyl, not good times.
That, alone, is why we have to bring the 50's back
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 05:00:27 PMNow young Americans are dying from Fentanyl, not good times.
JFC.
Quote from: tower912 on May 06, 2025, 04:08:21 PMThe world has changed in the 50 years your generation has been in charge.
I would not call Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 41 or Obama my generation. As for Clinton, Bush 43, Biden and Trump I would agree. One's outlook depends on their political lens if we're better or worse over those 50 years.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 06, 2025, 05:16:08 PMThat, alone, is why we have to bring the 50's back
No, it is not, but an affordable college education would be.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 05:25:01 PMHit a nerve there?
No. You're just full of basic and dumb talking points.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 05:24:26 PMNo, it is not, but an affordable college education would be.
Have I got some news for you about that
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 05:21:17 PMOne's outlook depends on their political lens if we're better or worse over those 50 years.
No it doesn't. Or it shouldn't, if you have a brain.
Quote from: The Sultan on May 06, 2025, 05:36:30 PMNo. You're just full of basic and dumb talking points.
That Marquette's tuition and R&B costs are more than twice the inflation rate is a dumb talking point? Your right it is a dumb talking point; it is a sad talking point.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 06:43:43 PMThat Marquette's tuition and R&B costs are more than twice the inflation rate is a dumb talking point? Your right it is a dumb talking point; it is a sad talking point.
No, your dumb comment was about Fentanyl.
And yes, higher education is more expensive than it was back in your day. Care to guess some of the reasons why?
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 06, 2025, 06:13:58 PMNo it doesn't. Or it shouldn't, if you have a brain.
So, what is it? If you have a brain are we better or worse off, or if we don't have a brain are we better or worse off?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 06:49:48 PMSo, what is it? If you have a brain are we better or worse off, or if we don't have a brain are we better or worse off?
We'd be better if boomers hadn't ruined the country with their selfishness
Quote from: The Sultan on May 06, 2025, 06:48:17 PMNo, your dumb comment was about Fentanyl.
And yes, higher education is more expensive than it was back in your day. Care to guess some of the reasons why?
What was dumb about the Fentanyl comment?
One of the primary drivers of tuition cost was the government taking over the student loan programs. The students were on the hook for repayment, and they could not even declare bankruptcy. The Universities with no skin in the game were getting their money so there was no reason not to increase tuition costs. I am sure there are other reasons but for me that is the big one. Finally, the Ivies are doing the right thing and using their endowments to fund most of their student's tuition costs. Hopefully more Universities will follow suit.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 06, 2025, 06:57:34 PMWe'd be better if boomers hadn't ruined the country with their selfishness
I take it you are not a boomer.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 07:13:34 PMI take it you are not a boomer.
Correct. I don't get my talking points from Fox News or the NY Post
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 06:49:48 PMSo, what is it? If you have a brain are we better or worse off, or if we don't have a brain are we better or worse off?
Yes
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 02:28:35 PMMy working-class parents could afford Marquette paying full sticker price when I attended. Not today. I would have gone to Rutgers only two miles from home otherwise which was 20 percent less not counting R&B. A lot more of us were getting accepted than rejected from places we could afford without grants and partial scholarships which is better than getting accepted to a school you can't afford offering degrees that have lost their value in the marketplace.
When you attended, the average discount rate would have been tiny.
Now the average discount rate is 52% (56% for 1st year students).
If you adjust tuition for the discount rate it is not exceeding inflation. And for the last several years, tuition increases have been far below inflation despite larger and larger tuition discounts.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 07:11:46 PMWhat was dumb about the Fentanyl comment?
One of the primary drivers of tuition cost was the government taking over the student loan programs. The students were on the hook for repayment, and they could not even declare bankruptcy. The Universities with no skin in the game were getting their money so there was no reason not to increase tuition costs. I am sure there are other reasons but for me that is the big one.
Your analysis is incorrect and inaccurate.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 07:11:46 PMWhat was dumb about the Fentanyl comment?
Comparing the Vietnam War to a drug crisis is dumb.
Quote from: forgetful on May 06, 2025, 07:49:40 PMWhen you attended, the average discount rate would have been tiny.
Now the average discount rate is 52% (56% for 1st year students).
If you adjust tuition for the discount rate it is not exceeding inflation. And for the last several years, tuition increases have been far below inflation despite larger and larger tuition discounts.
Yes.
Not to mention that Marquette has always been the higher price option compared to two and four year public universities. There is a reason that people pay for it however.
Quote from: MU82 on May 06, 2025, 12:42:53 PMPrinceton provides free education - including tuition and room/board - for students from families with annual incomes of $100K or less.
They have joined numerous Ivy League and other top universities in this practice, with some (including Harvard) offering free tuition to those from families earning $200K or less.
Comment: Having also just gone thru this college process with my son .. there's a huge caveat to the "making under $100/200k = free tuition" pledge.
Every one of them include commentary that the household can have "typical assets" in order to qualify. If you've been saving for your kids college education since they were born: You don't have typical assets, so fork it over.
The NYT article is archived here: https://archive.is/ccndu
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 07:11:46 PMWhat was dumb about the Fentanyl comment?
One of the primary drivers of tuition cost was the government taking over the student loan programs. The students were on the hook for repayment, and they could not even declare bankruptcy. The Universities with no skin in the game were getting their money so there was no reason not to increase tuition costs. I am sure there are other reasons but for me that is the big one. Finally, the Ivies are doing the right thing and using their endowments to fund most of their student's tuition costs. Hopefully more Universities will follow suit.
Nothing to do with the explosion if administrators? At Michigan State where my nephew is there are 4 administrators to every student, 11 profs per every student.
Check your math. MSU has an enrollment of 52 thousand. By your math, there are 200k administrators and 570k instructors.
[/quote]
Quote from: forgetful on May 06, 2025, 07:49:40 PMWhen you attended, the average discount rate would have been tiny.
Now the average discount rate is 52% (56% for 1st year students).
If you adjust tuition for the discount rate it is not exceeding inflation. And for the last several years, tuition increases have been far below inflation despite larger and larger tuition discounts.
So why doesn't Marquette say tuition is really 22k and not 50k if first year students are getting a 56% percent discount. Adding R&B you are still looking at 40k unless that is discounted as well. You also state that 56% is an average which mean some students are paying more while others are paying less. Do all the parents know the 56% discount is the average or is that kept confidential per applicant.
Quote from: The Sultan on May 06, 2025, 08:34:49 PMYes.
Not to mention that Marquette has always been the higher price option compared to two and four year public universities. There is a reason that people pay for it however.
Care to elaborate what the reason would be?
Quote from: The Sultan on May 06, 2025, 08:30:49 PMComparing the Vietnam War to a drug crisis is dumb.
How so, people were/are dying and I think that was '82s point.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 10:02:13 PMSo why doesn't Marquette say tuition is really 22k and not 50k if first year students are getting a 56% percent discount. Adding R&B you are still looking at 40k unless that is discounted as well. You also state that 56% is an average which mean some students are paying more while others are paying less. Do all the parents know the 56% discount is the average or is that kept confidential per applicant.
The average nationwide discount is easy to find publicly. Average cost of attendance is pretty easy to find for every school.
And the reason why they don't advertise the discounted rate vs. book rate, is because some people will gladly pay full freight if it gets them into the school they want to go to. Those paying full tuition, allow universities to discount more for others who cannot afford college.
That is why enrollment decisions is such a huge game. They need to balance all types of applicants during admission and let a few "legacy-type" admits in that don't have the grades, because their families will pay full tuition and board.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 06, 2025, 07:25:07 PMCorrect. I don't get my talking points from Fox News or the NY Post
You're missing out on journalism at its finest.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on May 06, 2025, 08:58:17 PMNothing to do with the explosion if administrators? At Michigan State where my nephew is there are 4 administrators to every student, 11 profs per every student.
You can't actually believe that a Research 1 university has more employees than students.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2025, 08:38:35 PMComment: Having also just gone thru this college process with my son .. there's a huge caveat to the "making under $100/200k = free tuition" pledge.
Every one of them include commentary that the household can have "typical assets" in order to qualify. If you've been saving for your kids college education since they were born: You don't have typical assets, so fork it over.
Thanks for adding that perspective.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 10:12:45 PMHow so, people were/are dying and I think that was '82s point.
My point was it's dopey to romanticize a long-ago era that was far from great.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2025, 08:38:35 PMComment: Having also just gone thru this college process with my son .. there's a huge caveat to the "making under $100/200k = free tuition" pledge.
Every one of them include commentary that the household can have "typical assets" in order to qualify. If you've been saving for your kids college education since they were born: You don't have typical assets, so fork it over.
Yes, this felt like a kick in the scrotum. While I fully understand not everyone can even afford to save for college, it definitely felt like a punishment for having planned ahead and done the right thing.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 05:00:27 PMNow young Americans are dying from Fentanyl, not good times.
Not anymore! 258 million lives saved in the U.S. since January!
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 06, 2025, 10:06:44 PMCare to elaborate what the reason would be?
*Smaller class sizes almost always taught by professors
*Likely more personalized attention from advisors, academic support, etc.
*Religious-based mission of the school.
And here's the thing, if people don't want to pay that price, they don't have to! There are other alternatives available. But if the value of of a community college education, with a transfer to a public to round it out were the same, then the cost would be the same.
But Marquette is doing fine right now. People are willing to pay more to attend the school.
Quote from: MU82 on May 07, 2025, 12:29:20 AMThanks for adding that perspective.
My point was it's dopey to romanticize a long-ago era that was far from great.
I never "ramanticized" the 60s; just pointed out that Marquette was affordable for working class students and parents. I was drafted my junior year and would have had to report for service at the end of my senior year. Since I am legally blind in my right eye I was granted a medical deferment. I don't have to tell you how sad it was to see the obits in the Marquette Tribune every week of MU grads. I don't have to tell you that I experienced racial discrimination firsthand when my fellow black choristers were denied a hotel room in of all places in southern Illinios. We all slept on the bus that night. You are right the 60s were not completely great.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 07, 2025, 08:13:06 AMI never "ramanticized" the 60s; just pointed out that Marquette was affordable for working class students and parents. I was drafted my junior year and would have had to report for service at the end of my senior year. Since I am legally blind in my right eye I was granted a medical deferment. I don't have to tell you how sad it was to see the obits in the Marquette Tribune every week of MU grads. I don't have to tell you that I experienced racial discrimination firsthand when my fellow black choristers were denied a hotel room in of all places in southern Illinios. We all slept on the bus that night. You are right the 60s were not completely great.
I wonder what is the true demographics. If MU has as many "first generation" grads as they advertise/focus on - then it must be accessible. Someone has to pay the bill for that.
I can say when I went to MU in the 90s it wasn't very blue collar.
20% of Marquette students are Pell eligible, which means they have a low enough income or assets to qualify for federal financial aid grants. That is about the same as UW-Madison's - the UW System's overall figure is about 25%.
So maybe let's pump the brakes on Marquette not being accessible or not affordable for "working class students."
Quote from: The Sultan on May 07, 2025, 08:00:07 AM*Smaller class sizes almost always taught by professors
*Likely more personalized attention from advisors, academic support, etc.
*Religious-based mission of the school.
And here's the thing, if people don't want to pay that price, they don't have to! There are other alternatives available. But if the value of of a community college education, with a transfer to a public to round it out were the same, then the cost would be the same.
But Marquette is doing fine right now. People are willing to pay more to attend the school.
Sultan,
This pretty spot after having daughter #1 attend Xavier and daughter #2 graduating the university of Vermont this month. Some of the exact comments my wife and I noted in addition to a few others.
Quote from: The Sultan on May 07, 2025, 08:00:07 AM*Smaller class sizes almost always taught by professors
*Likely more personalized attention from advisors, academic support, etc.
*Religious-based mission of the school.
And here's the thing, if people don't want to pay that price, they don't have to! There are other alternatives available. But if the value of of a community college education, with a transfer to a public to round it out were the same, then the cost would be the same.
But Marquette is doing fine right now. People are willing to pay more to attend the school.
Please don't underestimate the value of a community college. Many community college "professors" are part time teachers and have jobs in the real world but also love to teach. They are a great networking source, and my daughter started her first job at the same company of one her community college teachers who recommended her.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 07, 2025, 08:34:47 AMPlease don't underestimate the value of a community college. Many community college "professors" are part time teachers and have jobs in the real world but also love to teach. They are a great networking source, and my daughter started her first job at the same company of one her community college teachers who recommended her.
I'm not discounting anything. If people want to go to community college, that's great! I have child that took that route and it worked great for him.
My point is that society values a Marquette education more, for whatever reason, which is why they charge more for it. Simple suppy and demand.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 06, 2025, 11:27:11 PMYou can't actually believe that a Research 1 university has more employees than students.
Quote from: tower912 on May 06, 2025, 09:07:41 PMCheck your math. MSU has an enrollment of 52 thousand. By your math, there are 200k administrators and 570k instructors.
was trying to convey 11 students per faculty member, and 4 students per administrator. Typed it wrong. This is typical among the top 50 public schools. Also, at MSU, over 4000 administrators make at least a six figure salary. There's your bloat.
1 administrator for every 4 students.
Quote from: tower912 on May 06, 2025, 09:07:41 PMCheck your math. MSU has an enrollment of 52 thousand. By your math, there are 200k administrators and 570k instructors.
There is undoubtedly more "administrators" than there used to be in higher education. Some are because higher education does things that they didn't used to do (information technology), because they have added positions that supposedly pay for themselves over time (advancement, admissions), because they are getting smarter about student retention (academic support, counselling) and because they have simply added without subtracting.
Which of these are essential, important or frivolous is up to the person you are talking to.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 07, 2025, 08:13:06 AMI never "ramanticized" the 60s; just pointed out that Marquette was affordable for working class students and parents. I was drafted my junior year and would have had to report for service at the end of my senior year. Since I am legally blind in my right eye I was granted a medical deferment. I don't have to tell you how sad it was to see the obits in the Marquette Tribune every week of MU grads. I don't have to tell you that I experienced racial discrimination firsthand when my fellow black choristers were denied a hotel room in of all places in southern Illinios. We all slept on the bus that night. You are right the 60s were not completely great.
Thanks for the response. Two of my brothers went to college roughly when you did. They have told me some incredible stories about what it was like going to school in the late '60s and early '70s, with so much political and racial tension. Though I attended college only about a decade later, it seems like things were so different.
As for affordability, there is a lot of sticker shock, especially when one looks at the retail rate. It's easy to get nauseous seeing figures like $70K or $100K a year. But as others have noted, there also is a significant amount of discounting taking place, and inflation makes it difficult to compare things to how they were 6 decades ago.
Having said all that, I don't doubt that Marquette is less affordable for working-class families. Thankfully, as others have pointed out, there are lots of alternatives for families of all income ranges.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 07, 2025, 08:16:57 AMI wonder what is the true demographics. If MU has as many "first generation" grads as they advertise/focus on - then it must be accessible. Someone has to pay the bill for that.
I can say when I went to MU in the 90s it wasn't very blue collar.
When I attended it was mostly blue collar. I had classmates who parents worked at Miller and Alice Chalmers. One classmate from Chicago his dad worked in the steel mills in Gary, and another his family owned a dairy farm. Three of my choirmates were siblings and of course the two younger siblings paid half tuition and R&B; their dad was a lawyer and mom a teacher. There were also many legacy students whose parents also attended Marquette. Many of my classmates were ROTC or NROTC which covered their tuition costs. Most served in Vietnam, but thankfully all came home.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on May 07, 2025, 08:43:19 AMwas trying to convey 11 students per faculty member, and 4 students per administrator. Typed it wrong. This is typical among the top 50 public schools. Also, at MSU, over 4000 administrators make at least a six figure salary. There's your bloat.
1 administrator for every 4 students.
Can you provide your source? Because Michigan States website says they have a 16:1 faculty/student ratio and around 6300 non academic employees. That's about 8:1 not 4:1. I also doubt that 64% of those make 6 figures or more. That number includes things like parking enforcement, administrative assistants, hall directors, rec sports employees, handymen, etc.
Quote from: forgetful on May 06, 2025, 07:50:35 PMYour analysis is incorrect and inaccurate.
https://www.cato.org/blog/federal-student-loans-rising-tuition-costs-insider-speaks
I am sure you will disagree with this report as well. I am sure there are other factors driving up tuition, but the student loan system is a big one.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 07, 2025, 09:41:08 AMhttps://www.cato.org/blog/federal-student-loans-rising-tuition-costs-insider-speaks
I am sure you will disagree with this report as well. I am sure there are other factors driving up tuition, but the student loan system is a big one.
Gosh a libertarian think tank doesn't like federal student loans????
Quote from: The Sultan on May 07, 2025, 09:42:54 AMGosh a libertarian think tank doesn't like federal student loans????
Where are they wrong?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 07, 2025, 09:46:06 AMWhere are they wrong?
I have no idea, and neither do they, if they are "wrong" or not. Have mortgages made houses more expensive? Maybe. Have they made it easier for people to own a home? Undoubtedly.
A couple of general comments:
1) Marquette's affordability problem isn't at the low or high end. It's with middle class parents who don't have brilliant students nor the capability to pay the "rack rate." I suspect many of these students come from Marquette loyal families because financial aid is minimal, debt would be outrageous and their children do qualify for high-quality secular schools.
2) My wife worked her way through Marquette in the 1970s, which became especially hard after her National Direct Student Loan was yanked after Year 1. She did it by cobbling together a couple of part time jobs, summer work and near deprivation (as well as borrowing my books, since I was a year ahead of her). No way that could be done today. Her parents were in their late 60s and 70s when she was a student and were not material means of support. Maybe there would be money today, maybe not. But she would have been saddled with enormous debt that would have hamstrung us into our 40s.
3) It ain't just Marquette that's the problem. It's all colleges. We sent both of our children to an Illinois public college because it was right for them. The cost, all-in, for four years was about $250,000.
4) And, to add fuel to the fire, my high school, a Catholic High in Nashville, is now $26,000 for annual tuition. You think Tennessee's Voucher system has something to do with that? I do! That's one very small reason why I believe external loans and grants are fueling the massive increases (above inflation) in college costs.
5) Marquette was still a great deal for wife and I. We're retired but Marquette gave us the tools to be successful in our careers and in our lives.
Quote from: dgies9156 on May 07, 2025, 09:59:36 AMA couple of general comments:
1) Marquette's affordability problem isn't at the low or high end. It's with middle class parents who don't have brilliant students nor the capability to pay the "rack rate." I suspect many of these students come from Marquette loyal families because financial aid is minimal, debt would be outrageous and their children do qualify for high-quality secular schools.
2) My wife worked her way through Marquette in the 1970s, which became especially hard after her National Direct Student Loan was yanked after Year 1. She did it by cobbling together a couple of part time jobs, summer work and near deprivation (as well as borrowing my books, since I was a year ahead of her). No way that could be done today. Her parents were in their late 60s and 70s when she was a student and were not material means of support. Maybe there would be money today, maybe not. But she would have been saddled with enormous debt that would have hamstrung us into our 40s.
3) It ain't just Marquette that's the problem. It's all colleges. We sent both of our children to an Illinois public college because it was right for them. The cost, all-in, for four years was about $250,000.
4) And, to add fuel to the fire, my high school, a Catholic High in Nashville, is now $26,000 for annual tuition. You think Tennessee's Voucher system has something to do with that? I do! That's one very small reason why I believe external loans and grants are fueling the massive increases (above inflation) in college costs.
5) Marquette was still a great deal for wife and I. We're retired but Marquette gave us the tools to be successful in our careers and in our lives.
Correct even state schools are expensive and if the state school will accept all your community college credits at half the cost you can still get a degree from your prestigious state school at a fraction of the cost of attending that school for all 4 years.
My daughter did not know what to major in after graduating HS. So she went to the community college for 2 years for 6k and decided on an accounting degree from Rutgers which cost us 32K for those 2 years. As it turned she hated her accounting jobs and entered an RN program at our local hospital and loves being a nurse.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 07, 2025, 09:41:08 AMhttps://www.cato.org/blog/federal-student-loans-rising-tuition-costs-insider-speaks
I am sure you will disagree with this report as well. I am sure there are other factors driving up tuition, but the student loan system is a big one.
It basically is a pointless article. The whole thing is like 4 paragraphs long, doesn't present any data, nor analyze any data, just spouts useless dribble.
Here is a piece of data. The average total student loan debt per graduate in 2024 was ~$38k, or $9500 per year. They could make that over the summer.
The problem is that in too many cases, the largest loans are by those that can least afford it, and you have the predatory, for-profit scam universities the take advantage of people trying to improve their lives. Fortunately, the Department of Education, and related organizations went after those types of fraudsters.