Rooms still available if you want to drive up and make a weekend of it.
Perhaps because Detroit drafts so late and nobody can predict #28, perhaps due to the lack of sure fire starting QBs, I have seen very little consistency in the mocks.
I think there is always less interest when there aren't many QBs that are any good in the draft.
Not a single sure fire guy this year. I don't even know that Ward is a better prospect than Anthony Richardson and no one eke should even go in the 1st round.
I don't think this is going to be a year teams force QBs. It won't be like the Kenny Pickett draft, but it's definitely not going to be like last year.
For the Packers sake, I hope there are a couple that sneak in, along with a couple of running backs.
The debate over Jeanty in the top 10 is fascinating to me, especially in this draft with so few blue-chip prospects.
I would be surprised if Detroit packaged Jameson Williams to move up in the draft, and chalk it up to pre-draft speculation. However, Brad Holmes loves to move up and down and all around in the draft.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 22, 2025, 01:45:18 PMThe debate over Jeanty in the top 10 is fascinating to me, especially in this draft with so few blue-chip prospects.
Agree. I've seen as high as 5 but no lower than 10. The success of elite backs last season - Barkley, Henry, Robinson, Jacobs, etc - and their very positive impact on their teams has made the "oh, any ol' running back is OK" philosophy less of a sure-thing talking point.
Jeanty is often compared to Barkley, and folks look at what Barkley did for the Eagles. Of course, Barkley didn't have anywhere near that success (especially team success) when he got relatively little support with the NYG.
It's definitely an interesting subject.
Quote from: Jockey on April 22, 2025, 01:07:29 PMI think there is always less interest when there aren't many QBs that are any good in the draft.
Not a single sure fire guy this year. I don't even know that Ward is a better prospect than Anthony Richardson and no one eke should even go in the 1st round.
I mean, in what sense are you even comparing them?
Richardson was over-drafted because he's an athletic freak with a cannon, but still insanely raw. Cam Ward is a polished and very accurate passer who has excelled at escalating levels of college football. He's the kind of QB that goes top 10ish in almost any draft (I think he still probably goes Top 10 in a stacked QB draft like last year above Penix and McCarthy).
While I don't think he's sure fire and I don't disagree with that, I don't think he's a complete flier like Richardson. I think if he gets on a team with a decent offensive coach, who can reign in his tendency to play hero ball, he could be really solid.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 22, 2025, 02:33:28 PMI mean, in what sense are you even comparing them?
Richardson was over-drafted because he's an athletic freak with a cannon, but still insanely raw. Cam Ward is a polished and very accurate passer who has excelled at escalating levels of college football. He's the kind of QB that goes top 10ish in almost any draft (I think he still probably goes Top 10 in a stacked QB draft like last year above Penix and McCarthy).
While I don't think he's sure fire and I don't disagree with that, I don't think he's a complete flier like Richardson. I think if he gets on a team with a decent offensive coach, who can reign in his tendency to play hero ball, he could be really solid.
I wasn't comparing their qualities, per se. I just don't think either will ever be a top 10 QB in the NFL.
Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2025, 12:51:46 PMRooms still available if you want to drive up and make a weekend of it.
I was never fully on board with the crowd numbers they have quoted - especially those who were going to be spending a night or two. I think you will have a lot of people there, many of them locals, but I doubt it will be as many as some of the early projections.
Quote from: MU82 on April 22, 2025, 02:03:05 PMAgree. I've seen as high as 5 but no lower than 10. The success of elite backs last season - Barkley, Henry, Robinson, Jacobs, etc - and their very positive impact on their teams has made the "oh, any ol' running back is OK" philosophy less of a sure-thing talking point.
Jeanty is often compared to Barkley, and folks look at what Barkley did for the Eagles. Of course, Barkley didn't have anywhere near that success (especially team success) when he got relatively little support with the NYG.
It's definitely an interesting subject.
Yeah, I think last year, with all the QBs, OTs and high-end pass catchers, it would be hard to defend taking a back in the top 10. This year's class is not only short on QB prospects, but seems really weak at the top - Hunter, Jeanty and Carter feel like the only other real blue-chippers, along with possibly Mason Graham and Will Campbell if you're OK with their length. So a running back is much more justifiable that early, especially one who is graded as the top RB prospect since Saquon.
Quote from: MU82 on April 22, 2025, 02:03:05 PMAgree. I've seen as high as 5 but no lower than 10. The success of elite backs last season - Barkley, Henry, Robinson, Jacobs, etc - and their very positive impact on their teams has made the "oh, any ol' running back is OK" philosophy less of a sure-thing talking point.
Jeanty is often compared to Barkley, and folks look at what Barkley did for the Eagles. Of course, Barkley didn't have anywhere near that success (especially team success) when he got relatively little support with the NYG.
It's definitely an interesting subject.
Conventional thinking.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 22, 2025, 02:33:28 PMI mean, in what sense are you even comparing them?
Richardson was over-drafted because he's an athletic freak with a cannon, but still insanely raw. Cam Ward is a polished and very accurate passer who has excelled at escalating levels of college football. He's the kind of QB that goes top 10ish in almost any draft (I think he still probably goes Top 10 in a stacked QB draft like last year above Penix and McCarthy).
While I don't think he's sure fire and I don't disagree with that, I don't think he's a complete flier like Richardson. I think if he gets on a team with a decent offensive coach, who can reign in his tendency to play hero ball, he could be really solid.
Interesting thought experiment ... if we didn't know what we know now, would Richardson be considered the better prospect than Ward? I tend to think so. Lack of experience aside, he's bigger, more athletic and has a better arm. Some offensively minded head coach - like Shane Steichen - would still think "I can make that work."
Quote from: The Sultan on April 22, 2025, 03:17:50 PMI was never fully on board with the crowd numbers they have quoted - especially those who were going to be spending a night or two. I think you will have a lot of people there, many of them locals, but I doubt it will be as many as some of the early projections.
Shutting down the boarder with Illinois hurts. But it will keep Wisconsinites safe.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 22, 2025, 03:17:50 PMI was never fully on board with the crowd numbers they have quoted - especially those who were going to be spending a night or two. I think you will have a lot of people there, many of them locals, but I doubt it will be as many as some of the early projections.
You're wrong there will be crowds like no one has ever seen. Crowd sizes are always wrong except for these which are also wrong because the real crowds are much bigger.
Detroit bussed in its crowds.
Which is safe, really, need to avoid the dentists.
Quote from: Jockey on April 22, 2025, 03:59:55 PMConventional thinking.
Any ol running back is absolutely fine... Assuming you don't have the scheme or OL to let a RB cook.
The difference between Barkley in NY vs Phi is the OL.
A great OL/scheme can allow a bad/average RB to succeed.
A great RB doesn't do much for bad/average scheme/OL.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 22, 2025, 07:02:08 PMAny ol running back is absolutely fine... Assuming you don't have the scheme or OL to let a RB cook.
The difference between Barkley in NY vs Phi is the OL.
A great OL/scheme can allow a bad/average RB to succeed.
A great RB doesn't do much for bad/average scheme/OL.
Disagree. Almost all teams that won SB without a marquee Running Back in the last 25 years did so with MVP caliber QB.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 22, 2025, 07:02:08 PMAny ol running back is absolutely fine... Assuming you don't have the scheme or OL to let a RB cook.
The difference between Barkley in NY vs Phi is the OL.
A great OL/scheme can allow a bad/average RB to succeed.
A great RB doesn't do much for bad/average scheme/OL.
Obviously a running back is going to have more success with a better OL/scheme. But how is that different than a QB is going to have more success with a good OL/scheme or any receiver is going to have more success with a good QB/scheme?
These debates, to me, always seem to hold backs to a different standard in terms dinging them for needing good players around them, which is pretty much true of any position.
Likewise, the argument that goes something like "the Giants didn't win with Saquon, so taking a back that high is bad" is silly. Joe Thomas is one of the best OTs of all time, and he never played a playoff game. Calvin Johnson is arguably the second-best receiver ever, and the Lions were 49-88 during his career.
But no one would argue that drafting a left tackle or receiver in the top 10 is a bad idea.
The only good argument against taking a running back high is the cap argument ... you're paying him like a top 5ish back right away, whereas a good QB, WR, OT or edge rusher on a rookie deal is a massive cap savings.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 22, 2025, 03:59:59 PMInteresting thought experiment ... if we didn't know what we know now, would Richardson be considered the better prospect than Ward? I tend to think so. Lack of experience aside, he's bigger, more athletic and has a better arm. Some offensively minded head coach - like Shane Steichen - would still think "I can make that work."
Fair point. I think it just totally depends on what the coach thinks they can do. In your scenario, Ward has a lower ceiling but I'd argue he also has a higher floor. I think he's actually got a lot of similarities with Baker Mayfield.
I think the success of Josh Allen has made people disproportionally inclined to thinking they can unearth the potential of the raw inexperienced super athlete college QB.
Anyone but Shemar Stewart.
We already have 2 of him already. My one huge criticism of Gutey is using the 1st round for potential.
Quote from: Jockey on April 22, 2025, 07:55:13 PMDisagree. Almost all teams that won SB without a marquee Running Back in the last 25 years did so with MVP caliber QB.
How many had an MVP caliber QB without great protection (i.e. Great OL/Scheme).
Quote from: forgetful on April 23, 2025, 09:11:22 PMHow many had an MVP caliber QB without great protection (i.e. Great OL/Scheme).
Few if any.
Quote from: forgetful on April 23, 2025, 09:11:22 PMHow many had an MVP caliber QB without great protection (i.e. Great OL/Scheme).
You're missing my point, which is that a great running back makes a team better. A great OL makes a team better. As does a great QB, WR, or pass rusher or CB.
People here talk about RBs like they are meaningless. Do you really think the Lions would have had the best record in the NFL if they still had Swift instead of Gibbs. They dumped Swift & drafted Gibbs because Gibbs was a difference maker.
Feel free to think that RBs are interchangeable if you want, but you would be wrong. (I'm not saying it is your opinion).
Titans should not take Cam Ward, this is as simple as take the best player available.
Tennessee is going to be bad this year, no matter who they take. They'd be better off taking Hunter or Carter now and going QB next year. I don't dislike Ward, but throw him into last year's draft or next year's draft, and there's no way he's one of the first three QB's off the board.
Quote from: Dish on April 24, 2025, 08:58:36 AMTitans should not take Cam Ward, this is as simple as take the best player available.
Tennessee is going to be bad this year, no matter who they take. They'd be better off taking Hunter or Carter now and going QB next year. I don't dislike Ward, but throw him into last year's draft or next year's draft, and there's no way he's one of the first three QB's off the board.
Or traded out of the top spot. They may not have gotten hauls of the past but I'm in agreement on Cam Ward. I like him, but as the first pick?
I would take Hunter. That type of player can make a difference to the franchise.
Quote from: Jockey on April 23, 2025, 11:07:26 PMYou're missing my point, which is that a great running back makes a team better. A great OL makes a team better. As does a great QB, WR, or pass rusher or CB.
People here talk about RBs like they are meaningless. Do you really think the Lions would have had the best record in the NFL if they still had Swift instead of Gibbs. They dumped Swift & drafted Gibbs because Gibbs was a difference maker.
Feel free to think that RBs are interchangeable if you want, but you would be wrong. (I'm not saying it is your opinion).
I think the point others are making that if you are going to prioritize positions, RB is low on the list.
OL is probably #1 on the offensive side, because they will make both your QB and RB significantly better.
Then, you probably have QB, WR, and lately maybe TE, before finally the RB. RB/TE might be interchangeable in importance. I'd put RB a little lower because their useful lifespan in the NFL is much shorter.
I'm cool with Tennessee taking Ward so that the Browns can draft Hunter. The last time the Browns drafted a guy with a fishing obsession, he wound up in the Hall of Fame. :-)
I'd take Hunter, who looks like a generational talent.
But once an organization's leaders have convinced themselves that a QB is "the one," it's pretty much impossible not to take him. And that apparently is the case with the Titans and Ward.
Hopefully he works out better for them than so many recent highly drafted QBs have worked out for the franchises that drafted them.
Quote from: forgetful on April 24, 2025, 09:34:58 AMI think the point others are making that if you are going to prioritize positions, RB is low on the list.
OL is probably #1 on the offensive side, because they will make both your QB and RB significantly better.
Then, you probably have QB, WR, and lately maybe TE, before finally the RB. RB/TE might be interchangeable in importance. I'd put RB a little lower because their useful lifespan in the NFL is much shorter.
Yeah, of course you want great players at all positions, and of course you want to upgrade when you can, but QBs, edge rushers, etc. are going to have a greater impact than a running back.
Quote from: forgetful on April 24, 2025, 09:34:58 AMI think the point others are making that if you are going to prioritize positions, RB is low on the list.
OL is probably #1 on the offensive side, because they will make both your QB and RB significantly better.
Then, you probably have QB, WR, and lately maybe TE, before finally the RB. RB/TE might be interchangeable in importance. I'd put RB a little lower because their useful lifespan in the NFL is much shorter.
I understand the point you are making. But I think that point has been stated so often that people take it as fact.
A lot of GMs would disagree, though. The Giants certainly agree with you. That's why they are losers. RB and safety are "lesser" positions, so you let great players walk if they play those positions. Well, no team ever wins anything of consequence without great players on their roster. The Giants said they don't need great players. Again that is why they lose every year.
Did Philly prioritize aRB? Did Detroit prioritize a RB? Did GB? Many people will see the pick of Jeanty in the top 10 as a bad pick. Those people will be wrong.
One player I really like is Matthew Golden, the Texas receiver. Very fast, gets open, superb hands. When I watched him in the playoffs, I was hoping he might be a second-rounder that one of my teams (Seattle, Carolina) could get. But then he reportedly had an incredible combine, where he ran the 40 in 4.29 - and he moved way up in mock drafts.
He's now in the 12-15 range in most mocks. It would be too early for Carolina to take him at 8, and he'll probably be gone when Seattle drafts at 18. He's gonna make some NFL QB very happy.
Quote from: Jockey on April 24, 2025, 12:00:11 PMI understand the point you are making. But I think that point has been stated so often that people take it as fact.
A lot of GMs would disagree, though. The Giants certainly agree with you. That's why they are losers. RB and safety are "lesser" positions, so you let great players walk if they play those positions. Well, no team ever wins anything of consequence without great players on their roster. The Giants said they don't need great players. Again that is why they lose every year.
Did Philly prioritize aRB? Did Detroit prioritize a RB? Did GB? Many people will see the pick of Jeanty in the top 10 as a bad pick. Those people will be wrong.
Look at the list of starting running backs for Super Bowl winning teams over the last decade. Saquon is the exception, not the rule.
The Giants lost even with the RB and S you think they should've prioritized.
Quote from: Jockey on April 24, 2025, 12:00:11 PMI understand the point you are making. But I think that point has been stated so often that people take it as fact.
A lot of GMs would disagree, though. The Giants certainly agree with you. That's why they are losers. RB and safety are "lesser" positions, so you let great players walk if they play those positions. Well, no team ever wins anything of consequence without great players on their roster. The Giants said they don't need great players. Again that is why they lose every year.
Did Philly prioritize aRB? Did Detroit prioritize a RB? Did GB? Many people will see the pick of Jeanty in the top 10 as a bad pick. Those people will be wrong.
The Giants weren't winning with Saquon. The Eagles were in the playoffs, and Super Bowl, without him.
Regardless, no one is saying that adding good players at the position is a bad idea. But an elite RB without a good QB will get you nowhere. But you can get somewhere with the opposite.
Ashton Jeanty is the favorite (-275) to go 5th overall.
Ashton Jeanty is the favorite (-190) to be selected by the Bears.
Hmmm.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 24, 2025, 12:44:56 PMAshton Jeanty is the favorite (-275) to go 5th overall.
Ashton Jeanty is the favorite (-190) to be selected by the Bears.
Hmmm.
Trading up to 5 for Jeanty would be a choice. I've seen other teams mentioned as doing this outside Chicago, as well.
Quote from: Jockey on April 24, 2025, 12:00:11 PMDid Philly prioritize aRB? Did Detroit prioritize a RB? Did GB? Many people will see the pick of Jeanty in the top 10 as a bad pick. Those people will be wrong.
I don't disagree that the league went overboard with by seeing RB was a throwaway position for a minute. But if my team earned the right to pick in the top 10, I still wouldn't want them using that spot on a RB. E.g. Philadelphia went 11-6 and then signed Saquon to a 3 year deal with almost no guaranteed money in the third year. The opportunity cost was a lot less than locking in a rookie pay scale at a more premium position. Detroit was a much closer call and took Gibbs 12th after going 9-8. I wouldn't have done that, but at least they traded back from 6 to 12 first.
Detroit was criticized for taking Gibbs, Campbell, and LaPorta too early. Then everybody thought they got a steal in Branch. All the same draft.
I'm against drafting a RB in the top 10, I am REALLY against trading up in the top 10 for a RB.
There's a lot of good backs in this draft. There are not a lot of good lineman (on both sides of the ball).
I hope I'm not on here in 6 hours saying "bad organization again doing poor things".
What are the chances news comes out right before the draft of Rodgers signing somewhere or his intentions?
Quote from: cheebs09 on April 24, 2025, 04:04:32 PMWhat are the chances news comes out right before the draft of Rodgers signing somewhere or his intentions?
He hasn't gotten himself in the news for a week or so. He has to be itching for it
Quote from: Dish on April 24, 2025, 01:43:18 PMI'm against drafting a RB in the top 10, I am REALLY against trading up in the top 10 for a RB.
There's a lot of good backs in this draft. There are not a lot of good lineman (on both sides of the ball).
I hope I'm not on here in 6 hours saying "bad organization again doing poor things".
Yep. RB is the one position in this draft that's very strong.
As the league continues to show, finding good OTs outside of the 1st round is becoming an increasingly difficult proposition.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 24, 2025, 04:06:42 PMHe hasn't gotten himself in the news for a week or so. He has to be itching for it
He has to be conflicted. Hasn't been in the news, but if he makes an announcement during the draft, he has to share the spotlight.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 24, 2025, 12:44:56 PMAshton Jeanty is the favorite (-275) to go 5th overall.
Ashton Jeanty is the favorite (-190) to be selected by the Bears.
Hmmm.
What moron is going to draft an RB that high.
#losers #conventionalthinking
Quote from: MUBurrow on April 24, 2025, 01:08:28 PMI don't disagree that the league went overboard with by seeing RB was a throwaway position for a minute. But if my team earned the right to pick in the top 10, I still wouldn't want them using that spot on a RB. E.g. Philadelphia went 11-6 and then signed Saquon to a 3 year deal with almost no guaranteed money in the third year. The opportunity cost was a lot less than locking in a rookie pay scale at a more premium position. Detroit was a much closer call and took Gibbs 12th after going 9-8. I wouldn't have done that, but at least they traded back from 6 to 12 first.
I mostly agree with what you are saying. Is it a foolish move for a 4-7 win team to draft a potentially great RB? Absolutely. Is it a foolish move for a 9+ win team to draft a potentially great RB? Absolutely not.
What the conventional thinkers assume is that their rule should apply to every team regardless of where they are in the spectrum. When the Lions drafted Gibbs, I said it was a great pick and it has turned out that way.
If the Raiders draft Jeanty at #6, it will be a terrible pick. If the Bears draft him (at #10 - not if they trade up), it will be a great pick. People need to look at where teams are in the cycle.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 24, 2025, 12:15:08 PMThe Giants weren't winning with Saquon. The Eagles were in the playoffs, and Super Bowl, without him.
Regardless, no one is saying that adding good players at the position is a bad idea. But an elite RB without a good QB will get you nowhere. But you can get somewhere with the opposite.
Pulled that one out of your a$$. There is absolutely no way of knowing.
They were already a very good team, so maybe yes, maybe no. But clearly, Saquon made a very good team great.
Quote from: Jockey on April 24, 2025, 05:02:51 PMPulled that one out of your a$$. There is absolutely no way of knowing.
They were already a very good team, so maybe yes, maybe no. But clearly, Saquon made a very good team great.
There's no way of knowing what? That the Giants weren't going to win the Super Bowl with Saquon? I think that's a safe bet.
And the Eagles were in the playoffs the year before, and the Super Bowl the year before that, without Saquon.
Sure he made them better. No doubt.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 24, 2025, 05:07:04 PMThere's no way of knowing what? That the Giants weren't going to win the Super Bowl with Saquon? I think that's a safe bet.
And the Eagles were in the playoffs the year before, and the Super Bowl the year before that, without Saquon.
Sure he made them better. No doubt.
I agree - sounds like the same argument that I made about Durant. You were agin' it before you were for it.
Quote from: Jockey on April 24, 2025, 05:11:53 PMI agree - sounds like the same argument that I made about Durant. You were agin' it before you were for it.
WTF are you even talking about?
The point is that the Giants weren't going to win even if they had Saquon. They weren't going to win with Xavier McKinney either. They had both in 2023 and they sucked.
The Eagles and Packers didn't have them in '23...and they both made the playoffs. Because both the Eagles and Packers have better players in the positions that matter more than running back and safety - offensive line, edge rushers, and quarterback.
Oh my Jacksonville :o
Too bad Jacksonville got the best player in the draft.
OL establishes a floor for a running game.
RB establishes the ceiling.
Spending capital on a RB (FA or draft) before establishing a OL is a waste of resources
Great start to the draft by Clay Matthew's!
This kid crying is a bust. Looks woke
Browns get a great second rounder and a prime 1st rounder thats gonna probably be top 5 to grab a QB next year just to move back 3 spots. Pretty tidy business by them.
Jags are dumb
Was hoping Membou would be there at 10, good pick by the Jets.
Jets off-season was a plus just by subtracting Rodgers
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 24, 2025, 07:49:40 PMJags are dumb
Hunter is very talented, but thats what teams give up for a QB. Steep.
If there was ever a team to help solidify that bad franchises reach early for RBs, it's the Raiders.
Not a fan of this Panthers pick. I don't even think he's the best WR. And even if they loved him, they coulda traded back 5-10 spots and still gotten him. Meh.
I'll be get off my lawn guy...
I wish we could just announce the picks. The announcement to announce the schedule release announcement was brutal.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 24, 2025, 05:21:28 PMWTF are you even talking about?
The point is that the Giants weren't going to win even if they had Saquon. They weren't going to win with Xavier McKinney either. They had both in 2023 and they sucked.
The Eagles and Packers didn't have them in '23...and they both made the playoffs. Because both the Eagles and Packers have better players in the positions that matter more than running back and safety - offensive line, edge rushers, and quarterback.
You missed the point completely.
Bears doing Bears'crap. >:(
I guess they are just one good TE away from being a 6 win team.
Quote from: Dish on April 24, 2025, 08:23:26 PMI'll be get off my lawn guy...
I wish we could just announce the picks. The announcement to announce the schedule release announcement was brutal.
Very true.
What's your opinion on the Bears pick? I wasn't surprised that it was a TE because That is such an important position in his offense.
Quote from: Jockey on April 24, 2025, 08:25:39 PMYou missed the point completely.
I guess you can claim that when you decide to shift the goalposts.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 08:26:40 PMBears doing Bears'crap. >:(
I guess they are just one good TE away from being a 6 win team.
WTF?
Why? Just why? Smh.
Quote from: Jockey on April 24, 2025, 08:28:59 PMVery true.
What's your opinion on the Bears pick? I wasn't surprised that it was a TE because That is such an important position in his offense.
I thought it would be Warren, but Loveland always felt (to me) as more a WR/TE hybrid. I'll be curious to see how they use him.
They're giving Caleb everything possible, he better be good this upcoming season.
Kudos to Packer fans, I thought it was cool they stopped booing for Payton/Mongo, and then mercilessly booed when it was the right time. Thought it was a fun moment.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 08:26:40 PMBears doing Bears'crap. >:(
I guess they are just one good TE away from being a 6 win team.
What would you have liked there?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 08:26:40 PMBears doing Bears'crap. >:(
I guess they are just one good TE away from being a 6 win team.
Freezing cold take
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 24, 2025, 08:39:53 PMFreezing cold take
There was no player there or trade to be made that White Trash wouldn't have posted the same thing.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 24, 2025, 08:38:08 PMWhat would you have liked there?
Despite being bake-to-back off-season champs, they still are bad on the O and D lines. TE is a luxury pick the Bears can not afford. The Cowboys did better.
If they liked Loveland that much, they could have traded back and pick him up after Warren was picked.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 24, 2025, 08:49:09 PMThere was no player there or trade to be made that White Trash wouldn't have posted the same thing.
;D
I'm sure I'll have pie on my face when everyone gives the Bears an A grade.
Seriously, do people look at the Bears and think a TE is a big need?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 08:54:34 PM;D
I'm sure I'll have pie on my face when everyone gives the Bears an A grade.
Seriously, do people look at the Bears and think a TE is a big need?
I think Ben Johnson values TE highly in his scheme.
Quote from: Dish on April 24, 2025, 08:23:26 PMI'll be get off my lawn guy...
I wish we could just announce the picks. The announcement to announce the schedule release announcement was brutal.
I'm with you on that. Thought it was annoying and awkward.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 08:54:34 PM;D
I'm sure I'll have pie on my face when everyone gives the Bears an A grade.
Seriously, do people look at the Bears and think a TE is a big need?
Most everyone who is paid to cover and write about football was saying a TE there for the Bears. Warren made sense, but Loveland reminds people of some of the stuff LaPorta does, which obviously ties to Johnson in Detroit. There is a lot of talk of Johnson running a lot of 2 TE sets which makes another dynamic TE a need.
You may still think the O Line is weak, but going out and getting 2-3 starting O Linemen in the offseason and then spending a top 10 pick on ANOTHER OL is a waste of resources. If Membou was there, they probably would have taken him. But he wasn't, so they took best available that fit what they need.
Quote from: Dish on April 24, 2025, 08:23:26 PMI'll be get off my lawn guy...
I wish we could just announce the picks. The announcement to announce the schedule release announcement was brutal.
It wasn't just that it was awkwardly timed/placed, but the delivery was horrific, corny, and Pocono nightclub level cringey. Colleen Wolfe had the presence and charisma of the random CFOs that end up on stage presenting random Bowl trophies. That was beyond awkward.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 24, 2025, 08:58:36 PMI think Ben Johnson values TE highly in his scheme.
Does he play two TE's?
Quote from: The Sultan on April 24, 2025, 08:58:36 PMI think Ben Johnson values TE highly in his scheme.
No doubt but he also values RB highly but you don't need to burn the 10th pick on one.
I admit I don't give the Bears the benefit of the doubt (who would?) but I didn't complain about last year's draft.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 09:11:33 PMNo doubt but he also values RB highly but you don't need to burn the 10th pick on one.
I admit I don't give the Bears the benefit of the doubt (who would?) but I didn't complain about last year's draft.
This draft is weak. Everyone will be looking to trade back, not up. So I'm sure the Bears at least looked into it. If nobody was interested, you just take the guy you want.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 24, 2025, 09:08:07 PMMost everyone who is paid to cover and write about football was saying a TE there for the Bears. Warren made sense, but Loveland reminds people of some of the stuff LaPorta does, which obviously ties to Johnson in Detroit. There is a lot of talk of Johnson running a lot of 2 TE sets which makes another dynamic TE a need.
You may still think the O Line is weak, but going out and getting 2-3 starting O Linemen in the offseason and then spending a top 10 pick on ANOTHER OL is a waste of resources. If Membou was there, they probably would have taken him. But he wasn't, so they took best available that fit what they need.
It wasn't just that it was awkwardly timed/placed, but the delivery was horrific, corny, and Pocono nightclub level cringey. Colleen Wolfe had the presence and charisma of the random CFOs that end up on stage presenting random Bowl trophies. That was beyond awkward.
There's far too often times the NFL does stupid stuff like this. Putting that skit out there before memorializing Mongo & Payton made absolutely no sense.
Egbuka to Tampa is the most puzzling pick of tonight.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 24, 2025, 09:13:58 PMThis draft is weak. Everyone will be looking to trade back, not up. So I'm sure the Bears at least looked into it. If nobody was interested, you just take the guy you want.
Oh....alright. Ty.
Quote from: Dish on April 24, 2025, 09:25:03 PMEgbuka to Tampa is the most puzzling pick of tonight.
I thought if they went WR, they'd go with Golden.
Well, if the Packers want to go CB or WR they have some great options.
Also some good Edge options.
If I was the Packers and looking at the current board, I'd be thinking of trading back into the 1st round.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 24, 2025, 09:13:58 PMThis draft is weak. Everyone will be looking to trade back, not up. So I'm sure the Bears at least looked into it. If nobody was interested, you just take the guy you want.
That's fair. The draft went poorly for the Bears which is not in their control. It's not a terrible pick but when they reached on the pick, I'd preferred it was for a lineman and not TE coming off surgery and a below average blocker.
Hahaha, they picked a WR
Golden is already wearing a giant G necklace. It's like he knew it would happen.
It's got to be cool to be drafted by the Packers with the draft in GB.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 09:37:30 PMThat's fair. The draft went poorly for the Bears which is not in their control. It's not a terrible pick but when they reached on the pick, I'd preferred it was for a lineman and not TE coming off surgery and a below average blocker.
A reach? Below average blocker?
Bruh
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 24, 2025, 09:46:44 PMA reach? Below average blocker?
Bruh
Loveland isn't a great blocker for a Michigan tight end but it doesn't matter. He's productive
Goin' in, there were 3 guys I wanted in the 1st round. Harmon, Golden, and Green.
So I feel pretty good about the pick.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 24, 2025, 09:46:44 PMA reach? Below average blocker?
Bruh
Slight reach, projected 2nd TE between 15-20.
Nobody graded him well at blocking. He's a hybrid TE/WR.
Giants trade up for Jaxson Dart.
Wilson, Winston, Dart
That's wild, man
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 24, 2025, 09:58:11 PMGiants trade up for Jaxson Dart.
Wilson, Winston, Dart
That's wild, man
This is an extremely weak QB draft. I think the Titans regret signing a QB at number 1 in this draft.
And is Mel Kiper getting paid to promote Sanders?
Quote from: forgetful on April 24, 2025, 10:00:00 PMThis is an extremely weak QB draft. I think the Titans regret signing a QB at number 1 in this draft.
Right?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 24, 2025, 09:58:11 PMGiants trade up for Jaxson Dart.
Wilson, Winston, Dart
That's wild, man
And Tommy DiVito.
What a weird trade by Atlanta, giving up next year's 1st.
That's huge for the Rams next year to have multiple first rounders where they're probably going to go for Stafford's replacement.
Quote from: forgetful on April 24, 2025, 10:00:00 PMThis is an extremely weak QB draft. I think the Titans regret signing a QB at number 1 in this draft.
And is Mel Kiper getting paid to promote Sanders?
Agreed, makes the Giants pick a head scatcher. They will have a high pick next year in a better QB class. They may end up with the #1 pick next year.
Quote from: Dish on April 24, 2025, 10:04:29 PMWhat a weird trade by Atlanta, giving up next year's 1st.
https://bsky.app/profile/edsbs.bsky.social/post/3lnman4pyqc2k
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 10:05:25 PMAgreed, makes the Giants pick a head scatcher. They will have a high pick next year in a better QB class. They may end up with the #1 pick next year.
The Giants have been bad for a long time for a reason.
Quote from: Dish on April 24, 2025, 10:04:29 PMWhat a weird trade by Atlanta, giving up next year's 1st.
That's huge for the Rams next year to have multiple first rounders where they're probably going to go for Stafford's replacement.
Kinda head scratching move. But they were criticized big-time last year too (I thought Pennix was a great pick).
Adam Scheftner said the Eagles have 20 picks in the next two rounds. Really?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 10:50:17 PMAdam Scheftner said the Eagles have 20 picks in the next two rounds. Really?
That's accurate now.
Didn't hate the Golden pick. Really wanted Harmon or Ebuka... was surprised to see Bucs go WR, but wasn't even remotely surprised Harmon was a Steelers type.
Golden is small, so will be an interesting evolution in that receiver room with 2 smalls that will be out there almost every snap. Not as impactful with all of the inside zone they started running last year, but I wonder if we see more 12 personnel going forward to offset.
Quote from: GB Warrior on April 24, 2025, 11:28:36 PMDidn't hate the Golden pick. Really wanted Harmon or Ebuka... was surprised to see Bucs go WR, but wasn't even remotely surprised Harmon was a Steelers type.
Golden is small, so will be an interesting evolution in that receiver room with 2 smalls that will be out there almost every snap. Not as impactful with all of the inside zone they started running last year, but I wonder if we see more 12 personnel going forward to offset.
After sleeping on it, I think it's a bad pick but will be happy to be wrong. Feels like he's a lot like what they already have but with elite speed. Do like his hands and ability to get the football, not something their guys outside Doubs show much skill at. Boom/bust pick
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 25, 2025, 07:16:26 AMAfter sleeping on it, I think it's a bad pick but will be happy to be wrong. Feels like he's a lot like what they already have but with elite speed. Do like his hands and ability to get the football, not something their guys outside Doubs show much skill at. Boom/bust pick
I think the takeaway is that the Packers and Bears did fine in a bad draft. Maybe the top 9 picks were good, but a whole lot of second day talent was taken in the first round.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 25, 2025, 07:16:26 AMAfter sleeping on it, I think it's a bad pick but will be happy to be wrong. Feels like he's a lot like what they already have but with elite speed. Do like his hands and ability to get the football, not something their guys outside Doubs show much skill at. Boom/bust pick
I think having the route running (Wicks), speed (Watson), hands (Doubs) in one package is a boon but it probably means they're not done adding for the future. You can't have two 5'11" guys dominating the field in a power run offense. At some point you need an aircraft carrier on a pogo stick with a great neck.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 25, 2025, 07:16:26 AMAfter sleeping on it, I think it's a bad pick but will be happy to be wrong. Feels like he's a lot like what they already have but with elite speed. Do like his hands and ability to get the football, not something their guys outside Doubs show much skill at. Boom/bust pick
Yeah, I think its as much a cost-controlling move than particularly additive. Which I don't necessarily hate, even in the first round, because its at a highly paid position. Better to use a late first on Golden who can perform at a high level than be stuck having to overpay multiple of the current guys on a second contract.
Quote from: forgetful on April 24, 2025, 10:00:00 PMAnd is Mel Kiper getting paid to promote Sanders?
That was embarrassing. It's OK to admit you were wrong on this one, Mel. Hell, I'd think you're used to it by now.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 25, 2025, 09:26:03 AMThat was embarrassing. It's OK to admit you were wrong on this one, Mel. Hell, I'd think you're used to it by now.
Mel's role is to drive conversation and create narratives. Honestly, no different than a pro wrestling announcer.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 25, 2025, 09:26:03 AMThat was embarrassing. It's OK to admit you were wrong on this one, Mel. Hell, I'd think you're used to it by now.
For those of us who were there, was the coverage really bad?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 09:57:23 PMSlight reach, projected 2nd TE between 15-20.
Nobody graded him well at blocking. He's a hybrid TE/WR.
"nobody"
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/article/2025-nfl-draft-is-tyler-warren-or-colston-loveland-te1-breaking-down-2-fun-prospects-at-a-challenging-position-191024073.html
https://x.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1915755423400968316?t=4dxTTaCuXzneisVsTmWRzg&s=19
There's 2
Quote from: GB Warrior on April 25, 2025, 09:37:16 AMFor those of us who were there, was the coverage really bad?
I found it no different than prior years.
That said (as others mentioned above), all the segments the NFL is adding prior to the pick announcements is getting a bit much. The worst of the bunch (by far and one of worst live TV segments I've seen in some time) was the campy schedule announcement. Really bad. But, that's not an ESPN thing.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2025, 08:49:33 AMI think the takeaway is that the Packers and Bears did fine in a bad draft. Maybe the top 9 picks were good, but a whole lot of second day talent was taken in the first round.
seemed to be more drafting for need and depth as the first round went on than best available. The Lions pick wasn't expected (everyone had them going Edge) but with McNeil out most of the season this dude will fill the hole until he gets back and will take (hopefully) over for Reader when his deal is up. It also signals the Broderic Martin experiment is likely over.
https://youtu.be/2Kdb2b0em-I?si=5lnkzOkdEiZFfgUO
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 25, 2025, 09:52:36 AMseemed to be more drafting for need and depth as the first round went on than best available. The Lions pick wasn't expected (everyone had them going Edge) but with McNeil out most of the season this dude will fill the hole until he gets back and will take (hopefully) over for Reader when his deal is up. It also signals the Broderic Martin experiment is likely over.
Man, I liked the Lions pick but I'm glad that Harmon didn't fall to them. That's a beefy line once all are healthy.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 25, 2025, 07:16:26 AMAfter sleeping on it, I think it's a bad pick but will be happy to be wrong. Feels like he's a lot like what they already have but with elite speed. Do like his hands and ability to get the football, not something their guys outside Doubs show much skill at. Boom/bust pick
I disagree based on the cycle of where the WRs are concerning contract extensions.
To me, one of the new NFL realities with WR contracts approaching $35-$40 mil a year is that you need to draft a WR in the 1st 2 rounds at least every other year. The last thing any team should want is a situation that the Bengals found themselves in.
Detroit signed all of their DL depth pieces to one year deals and DJ Reader's deal is up after this season. Alim McNeill just got his DT running mate for the foreseeable future. Once he returns from his knee injury. I think Detroit moves Paschal or Onwuzurike outside opposite Hutchinson.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 25, 2025, 09:40:54 AM"nobody"
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/article/2025-nfl-draft-is-tyler-warren-or-colston-loveland-te1-breaking-down-2-fun-prospects-at-a-challenging-position-191024073.html
https://x.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1915755423400968316?t=4dxTTaCuXzneisVsTmWRzg&s=19
There's 2
So, Loveland is a better blocker than Warren. Not sure that's a ringing endorsement.
"
After studying Warren, I came out with more questions about his blocking ability than answers."
"
I would even dare to say that there isn't any projection needed of Loveland being a better blocker than Warren; I think he is already at that level and I would give him the overall edge."
I did see someone compliment him on his great effort in blocking, but not calling him above average.
I concede Loveland is a fine prospect considering this draft. He was taken earlier than expected but in the same zip code as projected.
I think the Bears are fooling themselves if they view TE as a need. I could not find (with minimal effort) any draft analysis that listed TE as an area of need for the Bears. I am skeptical that a team can be successful with poor O & D lines, but the Bears seem dead set on building from the outside in.
Quote from: GB Warrior on April 24, 2025, 11:28:36 PMDidn't hate the Golden pick. Really wanted Harmon or Ebuka... was surprised to see Bucs go WR, but wasn't even remotely surprised Harmon was a Steelers type.
Golden is small, so will be an interesting evolution in that receiver room with 2 smalls that will be out there almost every snap. Not as impactful with all of the inside zone they started running last year, but I wonder if we see more 12 personnel going forward to offset.
Golden is the same height as Ja'Marr Chase, is only a few pounds lighter, and has a similar skill set. I think the Packers getting him where they did was quite fortunate.
I can't speak to whether or not GB needed another WR because I don't follow the Packers closely. But I think Golden will be a better pro WR than the guy the Panthers drafted at #8. Had the Seahawks not selected an OL whom everyone says will be a stud, I would have wanted them to take Golden.
Christian Watson's dad and brother didn't love the pick. Their son has been so reliable for the Packers that I can understand where they're coming from.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 25, 2025, 12:02:36 PMChristian Watson's dad and brother didn't love the pick. Their son has been so reliable for the Packers that I can understand where they're coming from.
I think I'm liking the pick even more.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 25, 2025, 12:02:36 PMChristian Watson's dad and brother didn't love the pick. Their son has been so reliable for the Packers that I can understand where they're coming from.
Yeah, Watson's dad just needs to have his phone taken away from him.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2025, 08:26:40 PMBears doing Bears'crap. >:(
I guess they are just one good TE away from being a 6 win team.
Poor take.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2025, 11:58:39 AMSo, Loveland is a better blocker than Warren. Not sure that's a ringing endorsement.
"After studying Warren, I came out with more questions about his blocking ability than answers."
"I would even dare to say that there isn't any projection needed of Loveland being a better blocker than Warren; I think he is already at that level and I would give him the overall edge."
I did see someone compliment him on his great effort in blocking, but not calling him above average.
I concede Loveland is a fine prospect considering this draft. He was taken earlier than expected but in the same zip code as projected.
I think the Bears are fooling themselves if they view TE as a need. I could not find (with minimal effort) any draft analysis that listed TE as an area of need for the Bears. I am skeptical that a team can be successful with poor O & D lines, but the Bears seem dead set on building from the outside in.
I think TE was definitely a need. Kmart has never been a game changer or even mildly above average.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 25, 2025, 09:40:54 AM"nobody"
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/article/2025-nfl-draft-is-tyler-warren-or-colston-loveland-te1-breaking-down-2-fun-prospects-at-a-challenging-position-191024073.html
https://x.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1915755423400968316?t=4dxTTaCuXzneisVsTmWRzg&s=19
There's 2
No dog in the Colston Loveland fight, but Ben Solak ... lol.
https://x.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1769167262689235263
Quote from: Hards Alumni on April 25, 2025, 12:25:34 PMYeah, Watson's dad just needs to have his phone taken away from him.
I heard his dad wanted Christian to be the starting
point guard quarterback
Quote from: Jockey on April 25, 2025, 02:16:43 PMI think TE was definitely a need. Kmart has never been a game changer or even mildly above average.
I think we can all agree that the Bears
need talent upgrades at almost every position.
Quote from: Jockey on April 25, 2025, 02:16:43 PMI think TE was definitely a need. Kmart has never been a game changer or even mildly above average.
Warren was the guy I was worried the Bears would take. He's going to be a stud.
Okay.
Now THAT feels like an unnecessary need pick
Have the Bears done anything to address their offensive line? Ty.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 25, 2025, 06:59:32 PMHave the Bears done anything to address their offensive line? Ty.
Did you lose access to the internet or something?
Why don't you just answer the question? :)
The Bears will be incredible, simply need Williams to get rid of the ball in .9 seconds.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2025, 07:07:14 PMThe Bears will be incredible, simply need Williams to get rid of the ball in .9 seconds.
Ty. I assumed that remains the problem.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 25, 2025, 07:08:44 PMTy. I assumed that remains the problem.
They addressed it with trades and free agency
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 25, 2025, 07:11:35 PMThey addressed it with trades and free agency
All the best OL players hit free agency.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 25, 2025, 06:59:32 PMHave the Bears done anything to address their offensive line? Ty.
It's pretty much what earned them their Offseason Championship.
Pretty happy with the Seahawks' draft so far, I must say.
Burden pick was great, loved it.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 25, 2025, 07:04:29 PMWhy don't you just answer the question? :)
They acquired 3 OL starters before the draft
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2025, 07:14:02 PMAll the best OL players hit free agency.
What effing pick did they miss on then in this draft?
Bears need DL help more than OL, imo
Did Deion and his son tag team the interviews Step Brothers style and bomb them?
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 25, 2025, 07:56:37 PMThey acquired 3 OL starters before the draft
Really? My apologies. I don't follow football closely.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2025, 07:14:02 PMAll the best OL players hit free agency.
They traded assets for 3 starting linemen. They literally traded for a guy who was 1st team All Pro the last two years, a guy who started 30 games over the last 3 seasons for two different playoff teams and was a Pro Bowler 3 years ago, and a guy who started at 40 games at center over the last 3 years. Plus they drafted an LT in the 3rd round last year. And yet you're whining cause they didn't AT BEST the 4th best OL at 10? And the 2 OL left on the board that got picked after were stretches. I'm not saying Thuney, Johnson, and Dalman are all gonna be exceptional and they will have the best line in the league, but you're throwing a fit like they haven't done anything to address the line. You're demanding they address the line with unproven rookies when they just acquired starters from better teams than the Bears were.
But they just drafted a giant tackle so maybe you'll stop seething the rest of the draft but I won't hold my breath.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 25, 2025, 07:57:03 PMWhat effing pick did they miss on then in this draft?
They had to have a TE for the 12 formation; 1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR. Then they used a high 2nd round pick on a 3rd WR. :o
If the Bears have great O & D line play this year, I will apologize.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2025, 08:16:04 PMThey had to have a TE for the 12 formation; 1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR. Then they used a high 2nd round pick on a 3rd WR. :o
If the Bears have great O & D line play this year, I will apologize.
Bears tried to trade out of 39. No one wanted it. So they took best player available. So be it.
They addressed both lines with the next 2 2nd round picks.
They did well, for what was available to them at their draft spots, in the first 2 rounds
Quote from: JWags85 on April 25, 2025, 08:15:15 PMThey traded assets for 3 starting linemen. They literally traded for a guy who was 1st team All Pro the last two years, a guy who started 30 games over the last 3 seasons for two different playoff teams and was a Pro Bowler 3 years ago, and a guy who started at 40 games at center over the last 3 years. Plus they drafted an LT in the 3rd round last year. And yet you're whining cause they didn't AT BEST the 4th best OL at 10? And the 2 OL left on the board that got picked after were stretches. I'm not saying Thuney, Johnson, and Dalman are all gonna be exceptional and they will have the best line in the league, but you're throwing a fit like they haven't done anything to address the line. You're demanding they address the line with unproven rookies when they just acquired starters from better teams than the Bears were.
But they just drafted a giant tackle so maybe you'll stop seething the rest of the draft but I won't hold my breath.
I'm pleased with the last two picks :)
How mad is Deion?
Worrying about how mad Deion is could possibly be part of the issue.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 25, 2025, 08:30:08 PMHow mad is Deion?
He's got the POTUS on his side to temper his anger for now
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/trump-says-shedeur-sanders-should-drafted-immediately-nfl-owners-stupid-passing-him.amp
Shedeur Sanders betting pool. Who finally says yes.
Quote from: tower912 on April 25, 2025, 08:39:05 PMShedeur Sanders betting pool. Who finally says yes.
LV, LAR?
TeSlaa feels like a reach. Gave up a lot and were really only bidding against themselves ad a day two pick.
However, the next time someone asks about a zero star prospect making it to the league, have them Google this guy.
Rams to sit behind Stafford?
Did he reveal he had an NIL deal with ISIS or something? Crazy
Welp, some of those guys in the receiver room in Green Bay are getting a rude awakening
Christian Watson's dad is really going to hate that one.
Lol
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 25, 2025, 09:35:17 PMWelp, some of those guys in the receiver room in Green Bay are getting a rude awakening
I really like this pick. Before the draft, I didn't think they would take a WR early so this is the guy I was hoping for in round 3-4.
Quote from: Jockey on April 25, 2025, 10:20:02 PMI really like this pick. Before the draft, I didn't think they would take a WR early so this is the guy I was hoping for in round 3-4.
Ultimate dart throw. Will be interesting to see how MLF pieces it all together.
Meanwhile, they REALLY believe their former DL coach was just the biggest dolt, huh?
Quote from: tower912 on April 25, 2025, 08:39:05 PMShedeur Sanders betting pool. Who finally says yes.
I feel bad for the kid.
He was mostly just a media creation because of the family name. And then propped up by all the experts who aren't expert enough to be hired by any NFL team.
I always get a kick out of complaints by fans that a team "reached" because a player was picked 20 spots before he was projected to go (by the experts).
Shedeur is going undrafted
https://x.com/sammonsonnfl/status/1915891677358678323?s=46
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on April 25, 2025, 09:27:51 PMDid he reveal he had an NIL deal with ISIS or something? Crazy
When Milroe was taken, I said ok. When Gabriel was selected, then I knew and probably everyone else, knew it was a Dion effect and the rumors of Shaduer being an entitled brat. The teams do not want a circus drama with Dion hanging over their heads. Dion in last year has mentioned certain NFL teams for his son, what system is best, etc. Let's say he is drafted high and then is second string. Starting QB falters and then fanbase calls for Shaduer and it doesn't happen. Dion then can't hold his tongue and it starts with his meddling. Then the coach falters and the fanbase who likes Shaduer because he was taken high, wants the coach fired and replaced by Dion. No thank you.
I have no idea of actual scouting reports, arm strength, holds ball too long, but when five QBs are taken, including and especially Gabriel, it is a personal/Dion thing. NFL TV talking heads/analysts know it, but won't dare say it. Stephen A. will do so, he is un-fireable.
Both Sanders, with the assistance of ESPN, have been overhyped and heck, Colorado going to retire his jersey after going 13-12 over two years. Two months ago, he was going number two to Cleveland in like 80% of mock drafts. Just a strange turn of events. Pittsburgh only team left with a QB void now.
Sidenote, Mel Kiper hardly mentioned Shaduer tonight and at the end, he only said "it's disgusting". After last night and his obsession, the producers probably told him enough. Greenberg was the obsessed one tonight.
Quick link. Now the Sander's obsessed ESPN including a quote from an NFL executive from a team wanting a QB. "Not a football thing" for his fall.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/44860385/shedeur-sanders-remains-undrafted-round-3-nfl-draft
Quote from: GB Warrior on April 25, 2025, 10:24:48 PMUltimate dart throw. Will be interesting to see how MLF pieces it all together.
Meanwhile, they REALLY believe their former DL coach was just the biggest dolt, huh?
I loved the Golden pick, but not addrssing the edge is really worrying me
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 25, 2025, 06:52:39 PMOkay.
Now THAT feels like an unnecessary need pick
Felt like a BPA pick to me. Love it.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2025, 07:07:14 PMThe Bears will be incredible, simply need Williams to get rid of the ball in .9 seconds.
True. They definitely didn't rebuild the interior of the offensive line prior to the draft, right?
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 25, 2025, 08:08:41 PMReally? My apologies. I don't follow football closely.
No sh*t?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 25, 2025, 11:51:21 PMFelt like a BPA pick to me. Love it.
In the moment I couldn't understand it.
Once it came out they tried to trade, bpa made sense
Quote from: nyg on April 25, 2025, 10:45:21 PMWhen Milroe was taken, I said ok. When Gabriel was selected, then I knew and probably everyone else, knew it was a Dion effect and the rumors of Shaduer being an entitled brat. The teams do not want a circus drama with Dion hanging over their heads. Dion in last year has mentioned certain NFL teams for his son, what system is best, etc. Let's say he is drafted high and then is second string. Starting QB falters and then fanbase calls for Shaduer and it doesn't happen. Dion then can't hold his tongue and it starts with his meddling. Then the coach falters and the fanbase who likes Shaduer because he was taken high, wants the coach fired and replaced by Dion. No thank you.
I have no idea of actual scouting reports, arm strength, holds ball too long, but when five QBs are taken, including and especially Gabriel, it is a personal/Dion thing. NFL TV talking heads/analysts know it, but won't dare say it. Stephen A. will do so, he is un-fireable.
Both Sanders, with the assistance of ESPN, have been overhyped and heck, Colorado going to retire his jersey after going 13-12 over two years. Two months ago, he was going number two to Cleveland in like 80% of mock drafts. Just a strange turn of events. Pittsburgh only team left with a QB void now.
Sidenote, Mel Kiper hardly mentioned Shaduer tonight and at the end, he only said "it's disgusting". After last night and his obsession, the producers probably told him enough. Greenberg was the obsessed one tonight.
Quick link. Now the Sander's obsessed ESPN including a quote from an NFL executive from a team wanting a QB. "Not a football thing" for his fall.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/44860385/shedeur-sanders-remains-undrafted-round-3-nfl-draft
TLDR but it's "Deion"
The ESPN highlight reel they showed a few times over the past two days makes Sanders look like he doesn't have big arm strength. So many of the throws they showed were just floated/lobbed/almost-ducky deep balls that were connections for TDs or big gainers because the DBs fell down, got turned around, or were otherwise beaten like a drum. Obviously there's more to a dude's tape than the 10ish throws from a draft day montage, but almost all of the throws they showed looked like they would have been INTs in the NFL.
If he's elite, then it's worth putting up with the circus. If he's not, well...
Quote from: nyg on April 25, 2025, 10:45:21 PMWhen Milroe was taken, I said ok. When Gabriel was selected, then I knew and probably everyone else, knew it was a Dion effect and the rumors of Shaduer being an entitled brat. The teams do not want a circus drama with Dion hanging over their heads. Dion in last year has mentioned certain NFL teams for his son, what system is best, etc. Let's say he is drafted high and then is second string. Starting QB falters and then fanbase calls for Shaduer and it doesn't happen. Dion then can't hold his tongue and it starts with his meddling. Then the coach falters and the fanbase who likes Shaduer because he was taken high, wants the coach fired and replaced by Dion. No thank you.
I have no idea of actual scouting reports, arm strength, holds ball too long, but when five QBs are taken, including and especially Gabriel, it is a personal/Dion thing. NFL TV talking heads/analysts know it, but won't dare say it. Stephen A. will do so, he is un-fireable.
Both Sanders, with the assistance of ESPN, have been overhyped and heck, Colorado going to retire his jersey after going 13-12 over two years. Two months ago, he was going number two to Cleveland in like 80% of mock drafts. Just a strange turn of events. Pittsburgh only team left with a QB void now.
Sidenote, Mel Kiper hardly mentioned Shaduer tonight and at the end, he only said "it's disgusting". After last night and his obsession, the producers probably told him enough. Greenberg was the obsessed one tonight.
Quick link. Now the Sander's obsessed ESPN including a quote from an NFL executive from a team wanting a QB. "Not a football thing" for his fall.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/44860385/shedeur-sanders-remains-undrafted-round-3-nfl-draft
Ah, yes, ESPN creation. Maybe the NFL hates the song "Runaround Sue"
I think it was the Athletic that compared him to Bridgewater in a recent show. And that makes sense with what you see on film.
The difference? Bridgewater was almost universally beloved as a teammate and a man.
Shedeur probably should do some reflection on the influences in his life.
Quote from: GB Warrior on April 26, 2025, 08:08:33 AMI think it was the Athletic that compared him to Bridgewater in a recent show. And that makes sense with what you see on film.
The difference? Bridgewater was almost universally beloved as a teammate and a man.
Shedeur probably should do some reflection on the influences in his life.
Why? It's served him well for most of his life.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 26, 2025, 08:10:47 AMWhy? It's served him well for most of his life.
I don't know how ESPN covered it, but NFL Network desk pretty much laid it out. Once he slipped out of round one, teams were drafting backups and it's legit ask if he's worth the potential headache as a backup and developmental guy. I think it's a legit concern for teams and coaches in particular.
Steelers must be certain they're getting Rodgers and other teams that might want a starter can wait to see what it'll take to get Cousins.
Plus, I'm not sure he's better than Jalen Milroe. Shough and Gabriel were productive in college, too. None of them are surefire picks, like Sanders.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 26, 2025, 08:10:47 AMWhy? It's served him well for most of his life.
I think it's served him well when he's the best player at his current station. He's not regarded as that for the next level.
Aaron Rodgers was worth the headache because he was one of the best QBs in the league. He wasn't worth it when he ceased to be. You're going to bring the clown show for an unproven rookie?
Quote from: jficke13 on April 26, 2025, 06:37:45 AMThe ESPN highlight reel they showed a few times over the past two days makes Sanders look like he doesn't have big arm strength. So many of the throws they showed were just floated/lobbed/almost-ducky deep balls that were connections for TDs or big gainers because the DBs fell down, got turned around, or were otherwise beaten like a drum. Obviously there's more to a dude's tape than the 10ish throws from a draft day montage, but almost all of the throws they showed looked like they would have been INTs in the NFL.
If he's elite, then it's worth putting up with the circus. If he's not, well...
He also takes sacks instead of throwing the ball away so his QBR and completion percentage aren't negatively impacted. To him a third and 17 is preferable to a third and 10 because his stats are more important. Teams aren't going to put up with that.
He reminds me of the old Bud Light Leon commercials. "There's no I in team. "Yeah, but there ain't no we neither."
My take on Sanders. He was a very good college QB, whose skill sets don't necessarily translate well to the NFL game.
Had his last name not been Sanders, he wouldn't have gotten as much attention as he did, and would have been coming into this draft in a pack of QBs slated to be likely backups that may progress to a starter.
Now, as others have said, teams are not excited about taking on a headache for someone that will be a backup.
His media hype in college and going into the draft was largely because of his name, and now, due to his name, his slip is getting way more attention than it deserves.
I think he's a talented kid, but not nearly as talented as he and his father think that he is. It's an interesting situation because if he wasn't Deion's son, he probably wouldn't have ever been mentioned as a first rounder (or had his number retired to CU). I think that it's also true that if he wasn't Deion's son he may have been picked up in the second or third rounds. Being Deion's son has made him a lot of money. I think it's costing him money now.
I've held my breath each time the Browns picked..."Please, not Sanders. Please, not Sanders." That has a lot more to do with Deion than Shedeur. He's never really played without his dad running the show...I don't want his dad trying to run the show in Cleveland.
He's going to get an opportunity to prove himself. It's absolutely possible that someone is going to get the steal of the draft -- Sanders with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.
I 100% believe the McShay story about Sanders/Daboll pre-draft visit. If you show up to a job interview with a poor attitude and can't take constructive feedback, you're not going to get a job offer.
I don't think Sanders gets drafted.
Dillon Gabriel should watch his kneecaps around Shedeur's camp in training camp
Surprised Cleveland doubled up.
Quote from: Dish on April 26, 2025, 01:20:54 PMSurprised Cleveland doubled up.
Why? It's Cleveland. Two RBs, two QBs.
The Browns' updated QB room:
Deshaun Watson (injured)
Kenny Pickett (trade)
Joe Flacco (free agency)
Dillon Gabriel (draft)
Shedeur Sanders (draft)
Quote from: Dish on April 26, 2025, 01:04:53 PMI 100% believe the McShay story about Sanders/Daboll pre-draft visit. If you show up to a job interview with a poor attitude and can't take constructive feedback, you're not going to get a job offer.
I don't think Sanders gets drafted.
If you watched the off-season Hard Knocks, that isn't surprising at all. Daboll is no-nonsense and expects precise answers to his questions.
"Shedeur didn't have a great interview with Brian Daboll in a private visit. An install package came in, preparation wasn't there for it, he got called out on it, he didn't like that. Brian didn't appreciate him not liking it."
That is the Daboll from Hard Knocks.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 26, 2025, 01:26:46 PMWhy? It's Cleveland. Two RBs, two QBs.
The Browns' updated QB room:
Deshaun Watson (injured)
Kenny Pickett (trade)
Joe Flacco (free agency)
Dillon Gabriel (draft)
Shedeur Sanders (draft)
(https://media.tenor.com/4Geb4aH-PT4AAAAM/stinky-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson.gif)
Quote from: Dish on April 26, 2025, 01:04:53 PMI don't think Sanders gets drafted.
Cleveland Browns: "Hold my beer."
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 26, 2025, 01:26:46 PMWhy? It's Cleveland. Two RBs, two QBs.
The Browns' updated QB room:
Deshaun Watson (injured)
Kenny Pickett (trade)
Joe Flacco (free agency)
Dillon Gabriel (draft)
Shedeur Sanders (draft)
That's what I was getting at, they picked up Pickett and Flacco, draft Gabriel. They are 100% drafting a QB in round 1 next year as well.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 26, 2025, 01:26:46 PMWhy? It's Cleveland. Two RBs, two QBs.
The Browns' updated QB room:
Deshaun Watson (injured)
Kenny Pickett (trade)
Joe Flacco (free agency)
Dillon Gabriel (draft)
Shedeur Sanders (draft)
The 1st 3 are exactly why they drafted 2 guys.
After Browns fans had to put up with Watson's baggage, I don't expect a lot of patience for Sanders.
ESPN should be happy Sanders wasn't drafted until the 5th round - it gave them something to rant about!
Quote from: MU1in77 on April 26, 2025, 01:38:53 PMESPN should be happy Sanders wasn't drafted until the 5th round - it gave them something to rant about!
How much is Mel Kiper getting paid by the Sanders family? He should ask for more
Best of luck, young man. Work hard and accomplish your dream.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 26, 2025, 01:41:13 PMHow much is Mel Kiper getting paid by the Sanders family? He should ask for more
Some embarrassing rants. Someone less established would be calling their last draft.
I remember wanting the Hornets to draft anyone except LaMelo Ball because I didn't want to have to listen to his father whining and ranting and making it a circus. But surprise ... LaVar stayed out of it, both for LaMelo and Lonzo.
Now, Deion has a far bigger platform and far more fame than LaVar. And Shedeur is not as talented in his field as LaMelo and Lonzo (though I hope he's healthier).
As for Shedeur landing in Cleveland, the situation could actually be pretty good for him. With the QBs on the roster, one would think it would be an open competition. If Shedeur is better than Gabriel and Pickett, he'll have a chance to show it.
Of course, Shedeur could show that he's NOT good enough, but that wouldn't stop Deion and others (perhaps even including the WH occupant) from trying to make it seem as he's being treated unfairly.
The whole thing has been fascinating to watch from afar.
Quote from: MU82 on April 26, 2025, 03:24:25 PMI remember wanting the Hornets to draft anyone except LaMelo Ball because I didn't want to have to listen to his father whining and ranting and making it a circus. But surprise ... LaVar stayed out of it, both for LaMelo and Lonzo.
Now, Deion has a far bigger platform and far more fame than LaVar. And Shedeur is not as talented in his field as LaMelo and Lonzo (though I hope he's healthier).
As for Shedeur landing in Cleveland, the situation could actually be pretty good for him. With the QBs on the roster, one would think it would be an open competition. If Shedeur is better than Gabriel and Pickett, he'll have a chance to show it.
Of course, Shedeur could show that he's NOT good enough, but that wouldn't stop Deion and others (perhaps even including the WH occupant) from trying to make it seem as he's being treated unfairly.
The whole thing has been fascinating to watch from afar.
Yeah, the weird thing about all this is Shedeur is probably the best QB on the roster.
https://x.com/RMSummerlin/status/1916226898893435226
Quote from: Pakuni on April 26, 2025, 03:26:44 PMYeah, the weird thing about all this is Shedeur is probably the best QB on the roster.
Yea the drama swung everything completely to the other side. Was he a top 5 pick ability wise? Probably not. But people have now gotten into a lather about him being terrible and not an NFL QB...meanwhile the Browns drafted Gabriel who is tiny and arguably does literally nothing better than Sanders and is less athletic.
If he takes direction and listens to Musgrave, who Deion is fond of and respects, he could realistically be #2 behind Flacco pretty quick.
Lost in all this, an even more incredible fall, Ewers was talked about as a #1 pick when he went to Texas, had a good 2023 season, and a rocky 2024...and now he's looking like a 7th rounder, maybe UDFA. Riley "Noodle Arm" Leonard and Graham "I stunk every year at multiple schools" Mertz have been drafted before him. Drama when someone is not gonna be a rookie starter has flown to the top of the intangibles rankings
All-in-all, pretty pleased with GB draft. Give it 2-3 years and we'll see if it is warranted.
I am not disappointed by the Lions draft. Flip Frazier and Teslaa and don't give up future picks and it would have been better. Over the last two drafts, Detroit has accumulated o-line depth.
Drafting Williams first tells me that they are going to rely on Davenport, Paschal, and Onwuzurike at the other defensive end opposite Hutchinson.
I believe the window is still open. I also believe the curse is still in play. It would be nice to see what this defense can accomplish with the vast majority of the first string defense on the field.
Quote from: tower912 on April 26, 2025, 07:02:47 PMI am disappointed by the Lions draft. Flip Frazier and Teslaa and don't give up future picks and it would have been better. Over the last two drafts, Detroit has accumulated o-line depth.
Drafting Williams first tells me that they are going to rely on Davenport, Paschal, and Onwuzurike at the other defensive end opposite Hutchinson.
I believe the window is still open. I also believe the curse is still in play. It would be nice to see what this defense can accomplish with the vast majority of the first string defense on the field.
Im very intrigued by the Boise State kid. Reminds me of Ziggy Ansah in terms of potential and raw athleticism. My hunch is Smith is resigning with them so they didn't need to draft an edge higher.
I omitted 'not'. Dopey dopey dopey. I am NOT disappointed by the Lions draft.
I like the Ziggy Ansah comp.
I was back in your old stomping grounds for another jazz festival performance.
Quote from: tower912 on April 26, 2025, 08:29:08 PMI omitted 'not'. Dopey dopey dopey. I am NOT disappointed by the Lions draft.
I like the Ziggy Ansah comp.
I was back in your old stomping grounds for another jazz festival performance.
Nice! That's a cool performance area they have there. Had dinner and brews at Lansing Brewing tonight and Old Nation last night. If you like hazys Mi Mi Mi from ON is elite.
Mel Kiper graded the Browns draft an A+, think it had anything to do with them taking Shedeur Sanders?
Draft grades are dumb (and as such I read all of them) but the Browns had an objectively good draft. Not sure if it was good process unless we know whether Haslam meddled in the Shedeur selection, but the outcome was solid. IMO they should not be interested in rolling Flacco or Pickett out there. See what the two rookies do as you plan to draft the next one next year
Getting a first round talent in Sanders in the fifth round is objectively good. It's a low risk, high reward move. If he comes in and works hard, it could work out great for teams and player.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 27, 2025, 10:27:37 AMGetting a first round talent in Sanders in the fifth round is objectively good. It's a low risk, high reward move. If he comes in and works hard, it could work out great for teams and player.
Especially if some of Sanders' issues were related to attitude. This is total arm chair psychology, but I was impressed with his reaction to getting drafted. He looked genuinely excited. Maybe this will humble him and he busts his butt to prove people wrong.
It probably doesn't hurt to learn from a veteran like Flacco either. Other than maybe Pittsburgh, he couldn't have really found a better QB room to steal the job second half of the year.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 22, 2025, 03:17:50 PMI was never fully on board with the crowd numbers they have quoted - especially those who were going to be spending a night or two. I think you will have a lot of people there, many of them locals, but I doubt it will be as many as some of the early projections.
Well it looks as though I was wrong about this. Everything I heard was the crowds were enormous and everything went very well. I think the AirBNB market didn't pan out like expected but that was likely unrealistic anyway.
Sanders was greatly overrated because of his name. An OK QB for an OK team.
Nowhere near the talent of Fields and Trubisky who were overrated.
Quote from: Jockey on April 27, 2025, 11:34:49 AMSanders was greatly overrated because of his name. An OK QB for an OK team.
Nowhere near the talent of Fields and Trubisky who were overrated.
Sanders is well better than a number of quarterbacks drafted before him however.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 27, 2025, 10:37:35 AMWell it looks as though I was wrong about this. Everything I heard was the crowds were enormous and everything went very well. I think the AirBNB market didn't pan out like expected but that was likely unrealistic anyway.
It looked like a great turnout. Sounded like Green Bay and the NFL did a good job. Kudos to Wisconsin.
Funny story, my wife watched some of the draft with me. She was and still is confused as to why people would show up to watch a draft and was even more befuddled why people were dressed up. To me it seems normal, but it is quite bizarre if you step back and think about it.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 27, 2025, 11:44:08 AMSanders is well better than a number of quarterbacks drafted before him however.
I agree.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 27, 2025, 10:27:37 AMGetting a first round talent in Sanders in the fifth round is objectively good. It's a low risk, high reward move. If he comes in and works hard, it could work out great for teams and player.
He's not a first-round talent, but definitely better than a 5th round talent. Barring a serious criminal allegation, teams wouldn't let a first-round QB fall to the fifth because they don't like his personality.
Most teams ultimately viewed him as a backup with some potential to eventually start, and those guys typically go on day two. But nobody really wants a backup who a) apparently views himself as being too good to be a backup and b) would garner incessant media attention/scrutiny.
If you look at the Browns draft room when the pick was announced, it seemed more like a hostage video. That was a Jimmy Haslam pick (like Deshaun), not Berry/Stefanski.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F20c2nnjst9xe1.gif
Quote from: Pakuni on April 27, 2025, 01:08:16 PMHe's not a first-round talent, but definitely better than a 5th round talent. Barring a serious criminal allegation, teams wouldn't let a first-round QB fall to the fifth because they don't like his personality.
Most teams ultimately viewed him as a backup with some potential to eventually start, and those guys typically go on day two. But nobody really wants a backup who a) apparently views himself as being too good to be a backup and b) would garner incessant media attention/scrutiny.
Agree with this. His arm strength is only OK. He holds the ball WAY too long and takes WAY too many sacks when he could simply throw the ball away. He's not a freak athlete like his dad was. He lost most of his "big" games as Colorado's QB.
All of that made him much less than a first-round talent, no matter what Mel and Coach Prime said.
But he still would have gone ahead of many of the noodle-arms taken before him had it not been for the potential circus. As you and others said, why deal with that for a backup QB?
As it turns out, Cleveland might be the one place where he has a legit chance to start because the competition isn't exactly fierce. And now one would like to think he's been humbled a little and expectations would be lower.
If I'm Cleveland, I dump Flacco - I mean, what's the point? - and make it an open competition between Pickett and the two rookies. Worst-case scenario is you suck badly enough to draft a much better QB in the first round a year from now.
Related: I'm pretty happy that the Seahawks took Milroe with their fourth selection after already addressing some major needs with their first three picks. He's an amazing athlete with a great arm and fullback size. He is said to have high intelligence and a great attitude. His mechanics need a lot of work, but Seattle doesn't need him to be QB1 (or even QB2) this season. To me, he's the ideal kind of developmental QB, and he was taken at the right spot in the draft.
Quote from: MU82 on April 27, 2025, 01:39:11 PMIf I'm Cleveland, I dump Flacco - I mean, what's the point? - and make it an open competition between Pickett and the two rookies. Worst-case scenario is you suck badly enough to draft a much better QB in the first round a year from now.
Cause they still have a good defense, made stronger by getting another stud lineman to go along with Garrett, a very good coach...they aren't an entirely hopeless spot. Let Flacco start and try to win games and bring your rookies along and don't throw them into the fire week 1. Plus, they already have Jacksonville's #1 next year which is probably gonna be top 5 again.
Browns had a good draft, but they couldn't be an A+, much less an A or A-, when Gabriel may have been the worst pick of the draft given the spot.
Yeah, Flacco would be a good mentor for two rookies. If anyone is an easy cut, I'd guess Pickett.
I think Gabriel will probably be a career backup unless he is on a very bad team.
I also think he will have a better career than Sanders.
Quote from: MU82 on April 27, 2025, 01:39:11 PMAgree with this. His arm strength is only OK. He holds the ball WAY too long and takes WAY too many sacks when he could simply throw the ball away. He's not a freak athlete like his dad was. He lost most of his "big" games as Colorado's QB.
All of that made him much less than a first-round talent, no matter what Mel and Coach Prime said.
But he still would have gone ahead of many of the noodle-arms taken before him had it not been for the potential circus. As you and others said, why deal with that for a backup QB?
As it turns out, Cleveland might be the one place where he has a legit chance to start because the competition isn't exactly fierce. And now one would like to think he's been humbled a little and expectations would be lower.
If I'm Cleveland, I dump Flacco - I mean, what's the point? - and make it an open competition between Pickett and the two rookies. Worst-case scenario is you suck badly enough to draft a much better QB in the first round a year from now.
Related: I'm pretty happy that the Seahawks took Milroe with their fourth selection after already addressing some major needs with their first three picks. He's an amazing athlete with a great arm and fullback size. He is said to have high intelligence and a great attitude. His mechanics need a lot of work, but Seattle doesn't need him to be QB1 (or even QB2) this season. To me, he's the ideal kind of developmental QB, and he was taken at the right spot in the draft.
Complete agree on Seattle. However, I don't think Kubiak is the creative offensive mind to A) Develop him as a QB and B) use him in an innovative way until then.
Quote from: Jockey on April 27, 2025, 03:17:20 PMI think Gabriel will probably be a career backup unless he is on a very bad team.
I also think he will have a better career than Sanders.
If you mean cause Gabriel will never be a starter or expect to be so he'll be fine being Chase Daniel 2.0 for 10+ years and Sanders won't want to be so he'll move on to something else in his life if he's not a regular starter 5-6 years in? If so, then I don't know if I agree, but I can see the angle/thought process.
But in no world do I think Gabriel will ever be better, like for like, in actual performance on an NFL field. A sub-6' QB that is slow and not a threat to run if needed, like Kyler or Russell Wilson, seems like a nightmare.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 27, 2025, 03:01:01 PMCause they still have a good defense, made stronger by getting another stud lineman to go along with Garrett, a very good coach...they aren't an entirely hopeless spot. Let Flacco start and try to win games and bring your rookies along and don't throw them into the fire week 1. Plus, they already have Jacksonville's #1 next year which is probably gonna be top 5 again.
Browns had a good draft, but they couldn't be an A+, much less an A or A-, when Gabriel may have been the worst pick of the draft given the spot.
Not sold on Cleveland being much more than hopeless.
Flacco is 106 years old ... and looked every day of much of last season.
I'm actually not a "just throw the rookie QB out there" guy, but in Cleveland's case I might make an exception.
But whatever ... Flacco, Pickett, rookie, the other rookie, the rapist ... it won't matter in the standings, and it sure doesn't matter to me.
Quote from: MU82 on April 27, 2025, 09:16:09 PMNot sold on Cleveland being much more than hopeless.
Flacco is 106 years old ... and looked every day of much of last season.
I'm actually not a "just throw the rookie QB out there" guy, but in Cleveland's case I might make an exception.
But whatever ... Flacco, Pickett, rookie, the other rookie, the rapist ... it won't matter in the standings, and it sure doesn't matter to me.
+1000
Quote from: The Sultan on April 27, 2025, 10:27:37 AMGetting a first round talent in Sanders in the fifth round is objectively good. It's a low risk, high reward move. If he comes in and works hard, it could work out great for teams and player.
As I mentioned above, I didn't want the Browns to draft Sanders. But at the 144th pick, it's pretty hard to argue that isn't good value. And the Cleveland QB situation is ideal for a young guy with a lot to prove. I don't think a lot of 5th round QBs have a great chance to compete for playing time, but I think Sanders will get that opportunity. I just hope Prime will stay out of it...but that's never really been his MO.
We're already seeing a glimpse of one of the problems that could come with this pick, though -- despite making a pretty nice trade and having some good picks, the Sanders pick is dominating the media coverage of the Browns' draft. This pick could be an absolute steal for the Browns. Or it could be a big distraction this season.
Quote from: MU1in77 on April 27, 2025, 10:09:45 AMMel Kiper graded the Browns draft an A+, think it had anything to do with them taking Shedeur Sanders?
Some say Shedeur is not a good decision-maker ... but he made a helluva decision to not attend the draft!
Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2025, 10:16:04 AMSome say Shedeur is not a good decision-maker ... but he made a helluva decision to not attend the draft!
It depends on the decision. To keep his QBR and completion percentage high, he decides to take sacks instead of throwing incompletions.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 28, 2025, 10:41:33 AMIt depends on the decision. To keep his QBR and completion percentage high, he decides to take sacks instead of throwing incompletions.
Same for Caleb?
Shedeur's pressure-to-sack rate: 20.1%
Caleb's pressure-to-sack rate: 31.6%
From The Athletic:
The NFL has fined the Atlanta Falcons $250,000 and defensive coordinator Jeff Ulbrich $100,000 over the leak of Shedeur Sanders' phone number before the 2025 NFL Draft, the league announced Wednesday. Specifically, the league said the fines stem from the organization's failure to prevent the disclosure of confidential information distributed to the club in advance of the NFL Draft.
Days after Sanders received a prank call from an unknown phone number on the second night of the draft, Ulbrich's son, Jax, admitted to being the one who obtained and shared the number of Sanders' private draft phone. Sanders received the phone Thursday and only shared the number with the NFL and teams, which prompted an investigation from the league. In a video that was shared on various social media platforms, Jax can be seen next to the person who made the call to Sanders.
Quote from: MU82 on April 30, 2025, 01:07:34 PMFrom The Athletic:
The NFL has fined the Atlanta Falcons $250,000 and defensive coordinator Jeff Ulbrich $100,000 over the leak of Shedeur Sanders' phone number before the 2025 NFL Draft, the league announced Wednesday. Specifically, the league said the fines stem from the organization's failure to prevent the disclosure of confidential information distributed to the club in advance of the NFL Draft.
Days after Sanders received a prank call from an unknown phone number on the second night of the draft, Ulbrich's son, Jax, admitted to being the one who obtained and shared the number of Sanders' private draft phone. Sanders received the phone Thursday and only shared the number with the NFL and teams, which prompted an investigation from the league. In a video that was shared on various social media platforms, Jax can be seen next to the person who made the call to Sanders.
Feels like a fair penalty.
There is A LOT that doesn't add up with the prank calls.
Ulbrich "addressed" it today by not answering the one real question, and then Atlanta media treated him like a victim and lobbed softball questions.
My reckless speculation is that the Ulbrich's kid screenshotted multiple draftees info and sent it to his buddies. Too many be people said they got prank calls. I don't know if the Mason Graham video is legit, but either one of two things happened.
Either Ulbrich's kid did what I insinuated, or the NFL and its teams do an awful job of guarding the phone numbers (that they set up).