The more I dwell on it, they stunk.
18-2 in the Big East would normally be amazing.. and it still kinda is. Nonetheless, a lot of bad teams in the conference this year.
St. John's offense sucked, and it was largely by design. I suppose Aaron Scott is the one who jumps out as having a worse-than-expected 3FG% performance, but this team couldn't shoot for crap and didn't get to the line. The offense was freaking doomed. #88 in offensive efficiency, #68 kenpom Adj OE. Absolutely brutal.
RJ Luis was fun to watch at times, but here's a 29% %Shots guy had a 48.3% eFG% and was not connected with his coach in the tourney.
They started the year ranked #19 in kenpom.. ended at #14. Never reached the top 10. Offense blew it big time.
The highest KP ranked opponent the entire season? Marquette at 29. Give 'em credit for getting the job against solid but not great opponents, but their three highest KP wins were against the Warriors. Yeesh.
Their highest KP nonconf win was at home against 41 New Mexico. Next highest? At home vs. 65 Kansas St., a sub-.500 team.
As a comparison, Marquette's highest 3 KP wins? At 10 Maryland, home vs. 12 uw-madison, and home vs. 15 Purdue.
Anyway, just wanted to say that for being 31-5 (18-2), when I look at St. John's in hindsight I say, 'what an eff'd up team.. they were never going to do anything nationally this past season'.
That said, would expect them to address the 3FG% shooting (and alter the 3FGA/FGA mix probably) to some extent -- difficult to not improve, but would think they'll get after that because otherwise the ceiling is too low.
Crown 'em if you want, but for that record, they were BUMS.
I had St. John's losing in the second round in my bracket pools. I was the only one, couldn't put my finger on it and was too lazy to really investigate but it constantly seemed like a paper tiger with good defense
Too reliant on the mid range.
Quote from: tower912 on April 17, 2025, 02:11:04 PMToo reliant on the mid range.
And that aircraft carrier
Quote from: tower912 on April 17, 2025, 02:11:04 PMToo reliant on the mid range.
The offense was definitely their Achilles heel
Pitino failed to adapt to the modern game and then he died
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 17, 2025, 03:03:58 PMThe offense was definitely their Achilles heel
Pitino failed to adapt to the modern game and then he died
Has never been strong when it comes to the deep game.
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2025, 03:51:19 PMHas never been strong when it comes to the deep game.
Sounds like you're speaking from experience, ai'na?
Did they not win the regular season and BET???
Quote from: WolfganghisKhan on April 17, 2025, 04:29:35 PMDid they not win the regular season and BET???
Yes, and High Point did the same in the Big South.
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2025, 04:33:40 PMYes, and High Point did the same in the Big South.
Buzz was right about the Big East becoming a low-tier conference!
Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2025, 05:59:23 PMBuzz was right about the Big East becoming a low-tier conference!
But he left the BE for the ACC which has become even worse!
Im also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent, but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 18, 2025, 07:51:58 AMIm also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent, but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.
Adapt or die.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 18, 2025, 07:51:58 AMIm also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent, but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.
RJ Luis is available.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 18, 2025, 07:51:58 AMIm also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent, but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.
Just think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 08:44:21 AMJust think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years.
Like Shaka had done two years prior.
A couple of prescient scoopers had opined that SJU wouldn't get far in the Dance because they were used to mugging BE teams and they wouldn't get away with it in the tournament.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 08:44:21 AMJust think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years.
So youre saying you should trust a coach who won a double big east championship and earned a 2 seed in year 2? Even if he got upset in the round of 32?
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 19, 2025, 11:15:10 AMSo youre saying you should trust a coach who won a double big east championship and earned a 2 seed in year 2? Even if he got upset in the round of 32?
When you have a HOF resume like Pitino, yes.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 11:18:43 AMWhen you have a HOF resume like Pitino, yes.
So even HOF coaches get upset as 2 seeds in the round of 32? I thought it was unacceptable
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 19, 2025, 11:20:26 AMSo even HOF coaches get upset as 2 seeds in the round of 32? I thought it was unacceptable
When Shaka's had multiple national titles, Final Fours, and second weekends, I'll cut him the same slack too. Pitino's earned a few more benefits of the doubt. You act like Pitino just arrived on the scene.
Pitino has won 2 NCAAT games in his last 6 seasons as a head coach. He followed each of the 2 wins with second-round losses as a 2-seed, with Louisville in 2017 and with St. John's last month.
He has one fewer NCAAT win and one fewer Sweet 16 appearance over that span than Shaka does, and we all know that Shaka is an abject failure.
Folks say that Shaka hasn't been to a Final Four in so long that it means nothing in the context of how he should be judged at Marquette, and those folks are probably correct.
Well, it's been 12 years since Pitino has coached a team to the Final Four. He has more major scandals in that time than FF appearances.
Quote from: MU82 on April 19, 2025, 11:59:23 AMPitino has won 2 NCAAT games in his last 6 seasons as a head coach. He followed each of the 2 wins with second-round losses as a 2-seed, with Louisville in 2017 and with St. John's last month.
He has one fewer NCAAT win and one fewer Sweet 16 appearance over that span than Shaka does, and we all know that Shaka is an abject failure.
Folks say that Shaka hasn't been to a Final Four in so long that it means nothing in the context of how he should be judged at Marquette, and those folks are probably correct.
Well, it's been 12 years since Pitino has coached a team to the Final Four. He has more major scandals in that time than FF appearances.
If Hutch is willing to consider cutting Shaka some slack ::) , perhaps you could cut Pitino some also.
Quote from: tower912 on April 19, 2025, 08:52:05 AMLike Shaka had done two years prior.
And has not sniffed closely since then. C'mon Tower, get current.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 19, 2025, 01:07:52 PMAnd has not sniffed closely since then. C'mon Tower, get current.
He was a 2 seed last year.
Rent free.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 11:25:41 AMWhen Shaka's had multiple national titles, Final Fours, and second weekends, I'll cut him the same slack too. Pitino's earned a few more benefits of the doubt. You act like Pitino just arrived on the scene.
Pitino won one national championship, 29 years ago.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 11:25:41 AMWhen Shaka's had multiple national titles, Final Fours, and second weekends, I'll cut him the same slack too. Pitino's earned a few more benefits of the doubt. You act like Pitino just arrived on the scene.
You're missing the point.
If it can happen to a HOF coach, then it can certainly happen to a non HOF coach. You should expect more of a HOF coach, not less.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 19, 2025, 02:14:08 PMPitino won one national championship, 29 years ago.
Well, I still give him credit for 2013.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 19, 2025, 02:20:40 PMYou're missing the point.
If it can happen to a HOF coach, then it can certainly happen to a non HOF coach. You should expect more of a HOF coach, not less.
You haven't even responded to my original post, which wasn't meant as any commentary on Shaka or any other coaches for that matter at all. I guess when you accuse strange roster building to a coach that has done nothing but win big at every program he's been and get called out for it, that's what you're left to change the argument so your first point is forgotten hopefully.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 02:58:43 PMYou haven't even responded to my original post, which wasn't meant as any commentary on Shaka or any other coaches for that matter at all. I guess when you accuse strange roster building to a coach that has done nothing but win big at every program he's been and get called out for it, that's what you're left to change the argument so your first point is forgotten hopefully.
His point was that he didn't know who was going to run the offense because they don't have a clear distributor. And provided evidence to support his question.
Your point was something along the lines of since he has been a winning coach, he has a good idea of what he is doing. Which is strange because he's hardly without error - I mean, look at this year's team as an example.
His argument is WAY more compelling than yours.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 19, 2025, 06:19:13 PMHis point was that he didn't know who was going to run the offense because they don't have a clear distributor. And provided evidence to support his question.
Your point was something along the lines of since he has been a winning coach, he has a good idea of what he is doing. Which is strange because he's hardly without error - I mean, look at this year's team as an example.
His argument is WAY more compelling than yours.
Thanks for your analysis Fluffy. Your opinion is so important to me.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 06:25:58 PMThanks for your analysis Fluffy. Your opinion is so important to me.
It should be. I'm very smart.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 02:58:43 PMYou haven't even responded to my original post, which wasn't meant as any commentary on Shaka or any other coaches for that matter at all. I guess when you accuse strange roster building to a coach that has done nothing but win big at every program he's been and get called out for it, that's what you're left to change the argument so your first point is forgotten hopefully.
Your original post didn't warrant a response. I didn't say anything negative about Pitino. I said "I'm not sure what theyre planning" and "it will be interesting to watch." I actually agree that Pitino is a great coach and will figure it out (though I think hes having to call an audible because I think he thought he had Xaivian Lee in the bag).
I was amused that the evidence you used to white knight for Pitino was also a word for word description of Shaka.
Nm
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 19, 2025, 10:00:27 PMYour original post didn't warrant a response. I didn't say anything negative about Pitino. I said "I'm not sure what theyre planning" and "it will be interesting to watch." I actually agree that Pitino is a great coach and will figure it out (though I think hes having to call an audible because I think he thought he had Xaivian Lee in the bag).
I was amused that the evidence you used to white knight for Pitino was also a word for word description of Shaka.
So you "actually agree" all this time it turns out. Guess I should have read your mind before my first response.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 19, 2025, 11:36:49 PMSo you "actually agree" all this time it turns out. Guess I should have read your mind before my first response.
?
I don't know why you think mind reading was needed. I didn't feel the need to affirm that Pitino is a good coach so I didn't respond. In your last post, you brought up that I hadnt responded so I did.
I was interested in your effusive praise for Pitonos accomplishments at St Johns given that Shaka accomplished the exact same thing at Marquette. So I posted about that topic. I thought we were having a conversation about that.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 19, 2025, 02:14:08 PMPitino won one national championship, 29 years ago.
I see what you did here! Well played.
Thinking of Rick's single title at UK, let's never forget when his 1994 team got rolled by KO's Warriors. Still one of my favorite wins in program history.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 19, 2025, 02:14:08 PMPitino won one national championship, 29 years ago.
Revoking championships is a stupid punishment. It's not like we were given a Bug East championship for 2012, it's not like 2013 never happened or that Michigan now won.
Sure on the record books Pitino has one championship, but he's won two.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 20, 2025, 08:25:43 AMRevoking championships is a stupid punishment. It's not like we were given a Bug East championship for 2012, it's not like 2013 never happened or that Michigan now won.
Sure on the record books Pitino has one championship, but he's won two.
He's won one. Cheating to win one doesn't count.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 20, 2025, 08:29:22 AMHe's won one. Cheating to win one doesn't count.
Haha sure chip
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/330980097/michigan-louisville
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 20, 2025, 10:33:30 AMHaha sure chip
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/330980097/michigan-louisville
Since rescinded bub. Try to keep up.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 20, 2025, 12:44:09 PMSince rescinded bub. Try to keep up.
So he did not win a second championship game? No. Fact is he won two championship games. Editing books because of the prostitution scandal doesnt erase reality that they won the championship in 2013.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 20, 2025, 01:26:12 PMSo he did not win a second championship game? No. Fact is he won two championship games. Editing books because of the prostitution scandal doesnt erase reality that they won the championship in 2013.
Nope. Again try to keep up. It was recinded. He's won one championship.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 20, 2025, 01:34:51 PMNope. Again try to keep up. It was recinded. He's won one championship.
Did Robert Traylor play basketball at Michigan?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 20, 2025, 01:43:24 PMDid Robert Traylor play basketball at Michigan?
Of course. Just like Pitino coached at Lousiville in 2013.
(You're not catching me in your simplistic trap by the way.)
Quote from: The Sultan on April 20, 2025, 02:02:36 PMOf course. Just like Pitino coached at Lousiville in 2013.
So reality happened. One person could count it as what happened one person can go by the official record. Without setting parameters beforehand determining what data set to work off of both would be accurate.
Traylor played basketball at Michigan, he never officially played at Michigan according to the record books.
False. Robert Traylor officially played at Michigan. Just like Rick Pitino officially coached at Louisville.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 20, 2025, 02:50:34 PMFalse. Robert Traylor officially played at Michigan. Just like Rick Pitino officially coached at Louisville.
Quote from: GGGG on May 13, 2013, 11:09:25 AMHell, Louisville won the national championship with a point guard with a worse FG% than Junior!!!
Title was revoked in 2018.
As expected, SJU lands Ian Jackson. Keeping with the trend, Jackson had a sub 10 assist rate. But Pitino tweeted that Jackson will be their starting PG. I will be very impressed if Pitino turns Jackson into a PG
Starting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!
Quote from: BCHoopster on April 21, 2025, 04:56:49 PMStarting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!
Pretty worrisome on April 21st
Quote from: BCHoopster on April 21, 2025, 04:56:49 PMStarting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!
That is always been an issue and in times past you said he was the savior.
R-E-L-A-X.
Quote from: BCHoopster on April 21, 2025, 04:56:49 PMStarting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!
Sean will reject their shots with his hops gained from a bionic knee. That surely is why everybody is clamoring that he is definitely starting.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 21, 2025, 05:08:39 PMSean will reject their shots with his hops gained from a bionic knee. That surely is why everybody is clamoring that he is definitely starting.
Everybody? Bionic knee? Who said that? Maybe it's a knee made of dung?
Quote from: BCHoopster on April 21, 2025, 04:56:49 PMStarting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!
(https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/open-uri20160811-32147-oai4ii_0e99f9f8.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1024%2C320)
Quote from: BCHoopster on April 21, 2025, 04:56:49 PMStarting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!
but, but, but, family, growth and development...
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 22, 2025, 08:24:24 AMbut, but, but, family, growth and development...
Not even the right motto. But you tried.