Give us yours. Mine:
Stewie. B A pretty consistent theme in these grades is going to be inconsistency. At his best, Stevie was a BEDPOY candidate who could knock down an open 3 and finish at the rim. At his worst, he was Derrick Wilson 2.0 who unfortunately will have had the last TV replay of his career being Devon Dent blowing by him down the lane for a lay-up to put NM up 5 with 5 to play, a deficit we'd never get closer than. Maybe the wheels were really out of grease in the second half of the season, a tough end for a guy with a great heart and motor. Would love to see him back on the MU sidelines next year.
Kam. B. B for a 2nd-team All-American you say? Yes, because while most of the guys were inconsistent game to game, Kam was really a tale of two seasons. 1st half - consensus 1st team AA, NPOY dark horse - A+. 2nd half - 3rd team all-BE (C-) - average it to a B. Maybe it is just the scouting report got out about a guy who only goes left and plays below the rim. But that doesn't explain what happened to his shot. I really feel for Kam because had he played to his early-season form he was probably a late 1st round pick putting 7 figures in the bank. Now it's G-league or Europe. Oooff.
Chase B+. Chase had a solid season and is really the only starter who progressed (or at least didn't regress). Our one guy who could consistently play above the rim - he definitely flashed Association potential. But he also went MIA in some games (or game stretches). Maybe this was deferring to the seniors, but he never really emerged as a third-option to be "the guy" on any given night. A trio, rather than a duo, of guys who might go off for 20 on any given night would have changed the look of this team. We're ride-or-die with Chase next year, so let's hope he can become the man.
Jop Wagon B If some of our guys were inconsistent from 1st half to 2nd half of the season, or game to game, Dr. Jopple and Mr. Wagon could do it possession to possession (as we saw in the finale - how can one guy be so good and so bad in the same game?!?!). 8 games with 20+. 13 in single digits. Some improved D, but what were his advanced metrics on the dribble drive? Hard not to groan every time he put it on the floor.
Benny G C. I think a lot of the Gold Brick criticism is that Shaka has a completely f'ed big strategy. I don't know if he thought BG was going to be Oso 2.0, or that the Freshman were going to be able to shoulder more load, but BG is not a high-major 5. In the end, 37% from behind the arc is more than serviceable for the role he should have been in - a stretch-4 who plays about 20 mpg. Given that he also showed a little from time to time off the bounce, I think if he was in that role it would have been an A- season. But as a 5 he just couldn't cut it - he couldn't consistently get into a two-man game with Kam or Stewie, he couldn't eat O or D glass, he couldn't be more than a passable rim protector (but part of this is Shaka's scheme - will some knower of ball please tell me why our 5 flashes trap in the middle of the court, 35 ft from the basket, on their best ball-handler?). Again, we ride-or die with Good as Gold next year - hopefully in a slightly different role.
THE BENCH
Zaide. A-. The brightest spot on the team this year. Solid D, could hit a 3, had some nice moves at the rim. At almost 16 minutes per game he shared the 6-man role with Royce, but frankly I wouldn't have minded seeing a bit more. I really hope it's him AND Chase on the floor next year rather than him OR Chase.
Royce. C-. He's a freshman, sure. But if you hit 3s at a sub 30% clip and play 15 mpg per game, you probably shouldn't be taking almost 3 of them a game. Another stretch-4 who really shouldn't be in the 5 but also not really at a stretch 4. Not quite sure what his role is next year - don't really want to see him and BG on the floor at the same time. Best thing about freshmen, they become sophomores.
Tre. D. Sorry, this is Derrick Wilson 2.0. I guess the best thing you can say is that he didn't really regress from his Freshman year - 9.1 mpg in both seasons, 18.9 (frosh) vs. 18.8 (soph) 3pg%, 2.0 (frosh) to 1.9 (soph) ppg. But it's hard to see how a point guard that has a career A/TO ratio of 0.5/0.4, and a FT% of 51.4% has any role on a high-major team. That twitter account may have been fake news, but it would probably be best for all involved if Tre departed for different pastures. The best thing about Sophomores is that they're not Freshman, expect when they are.
DO. B-. Some flashes, but really almost more of an Incomplete. Could be a nice backup for Chase/Zaide next year. The potential is still there, but didn't really see enough (despite 9.8 mpg) to get a sense of if it will be realized.
Caedin. C-. Our aircraft carrier in disguise? A few flashes of a a guy that could be a dude down low, but still very very raw - and not a major D or Glass force. Given how raw Caedin was, I do struggle to understand how the 7'1" guy on our bench couldn't have seen 5 mpg this year - a "big" line-up of Clark, Gold, Jop, Chase and Kam at least would have given us a different look when we were going through one of our patented 6-minute FG-less stretches. On most teams, Caedin would need to take some major steps forward to justify a major increase in minutes next year - but given our big situation it seems like he plays a significant role. Again, the best thing about Freshmen is the become Sophmores.
The rest A. Guys who show up every day and put in the work for no NIL, scholarship, or minutes have my complete respect.
Shaka C. At the end of the day, the players play, but the Coach owns the results. And the results were not good but also not terrible - e.g. a C. But you do have to wonder how a guy that had us at #7 in Week 11 ended up heading home with a nary a NCAAT win. Of the T-10 that week, the other 9 teams included all four 1 seeds, two of the 2 seeds, and two of the 3 seeds - all of whom are still playing. Only KU fell as far as we did (so yay?). Yes Shaka can't take 3s for Kam, but as teams started to gel and started to adjust to Kam, it is on the coach make adjustments - that's literally why he is Marquette's highest paid employee by orders of magnitude. Introduce some new/different action. Figure out a new D-look. Change up your starters/rotations. Get some set plays to get Kam going. Work on shooting F-ing free throws. Something else - I don't know - you figure it out Shaka - that's why you're getting paid $3 million per year and I'm some schmo on the internet. No matter how you sugar coat it, we went from a team that was in most people's FF conversation, to a team that exited the tourney in its 3rd straight year to a worse seed. So much is there with Shaka and the program, but he needs to figure out how to consistently get it done in February and March - 60% winning pct in those months not so bueno.
Scoop A+. Love for you all.
Quote from: 1SE on March 22, 2025, 05:40:24 AMGive us yours. Mine:
Stewie. B A pretty consistent theme in these grades is going to be inconsistency. At his best, Stevie was a BEDPOY candidate who could knock down an open 3 and finish at the rim. At his worst, he was Derrick Wilson 2.0 who unfortunately will have had the last TV replay of his career being Devon Dent blowing by him down the lane for a lay-up to put NM up 5 with 5 to play, a deficit we'd never get closer than. Maybe the wheels were really out of grease in the second half of the season, a tough end for a guy with a great heart and motor. Would love to see him back on the MU sidelines next year.
Kam. B. B for a 2nd-team All-American you say? Yes, because while most of the guys were inconsistent game to game, Kam was really a tale of two seasons. 1st half - consensus 1st team AA, NPOY dark horse - A+. 2nd half - 3rd team all-BE (C-) - average it to a B. Maybe it is just the scouting report got out about a guy who only goes left and plays below the rim. But that doesn't explain what happened to his shot. I really feel for Kam because had he played to his early-season form he was probably a late 1st round pick putting 7 figures in the bank. Now it's G-league or Europe. Oooff.
Chase B+. Chase had a solid season and is really the only starter who progressed (or at least didn't regress). Our one guy who could consistently play above the rim - he definitely flashed Association potential. But he also went MIA in some games (or game stretches). Maybe this was deferring to the seniors, but he never really emerged as a third-option to be "the guy" on any given night. A trio, rather than a duo, of guys who might go off for 20 on any given night would have changed the look of this team. We're ride-or-die with Chase next year, so let's hope he can become the man.
Jop Wagon B If some of our guys were inconsistent from 1st half to 2nd half of the season, or game to game, Dr. Jopple and Mr. Wagon could do it possession to possession (as we saw in the finale - how can one guy be so good and so bad in the same game?!?!). 8 games with 20+. 13 in single digits. Some improved D, but what were his advanced metrics on the dribble drive? Hard not to groan every time he put it on the floor.
Benny G C. I think a lot of the Gold Brick criticism is that Shaka has a completely f'ed big strategy. I don't know if he thought BG was going to be Oso 2.0, or that the Freshman were going to be able to shoulder more load, but BG is not a high-major 5. In the end, 37% from behind the arc is more than serviceable for the role he should have been in - a stretch-4 who plays about 20 mpg. Given that he also showed a little from time to time off the bounce, I think if he was in that role it would have been an A- season. But as a 5 he just couldn't cut it - he couldn't consistently get into a two-man game with Kam or Stewie, he couldn't eat O or D glass, he couldn't be more than a passable rim protector (but part of this is Shaka's scheme - will some knower of ball please tell me why our 5 flashes trap in the middle of the court, 35 ft from the basket, on their best ball-handler?). Again, we ride-or die with Good as Gold next year - hopefully in a slightly different role.
THE BENCH
Zaide. A-. The brightest spot on the team this year. Solid D, could hit a 3, had some nice moves at the rim. At almost 16 minutes per game he shared the 6-man role with Royce, but frankly I wouldn't have minded seeing a bit more. I really hope it's him AND Chase on the floor next year rather than him OR Chase.
Royce. C-. He's a freshman, sure. But if you hit 3s at a sub 30% clip and play 15 mpg per game, you probably shouldn't be taking almost 3 of them a game. Another stretch-4 who really shouldn't be in the 5 but also not really at a stretch 4. Not quite sure what his role is next year - don't really want to see him and BG on the floor at the same time. Best thing about freshmen, they become sophomores.
Tre. D. Sorry, this is Derrick Wilson 2.0. I guess the best thing you can say is that he didn't really regress from his Freshman year - 9.1 mpg in both seasons, 18.9 (frosh) vs. 18.8 (soph) 3pg%, 2.0 (frosh) to 1.9 (soph) ppg. But it's hard to see how a point guard that has a career A/TO ratio of 0.5/0.4, and a FT% of 51.4% has any role on a high-major team. That twitter account may have been fake news, but it would probably be best for all involved if Tre departed for different pastures. The best thing about Sophomores is that they're not Freshman, expect when they are.
DO. B-. Some flashes, but really almost more of an Incomplete. Could be a nice backup for Chase/Zaide next year. The potential is still there, but didn't really see enough (despite 9.8 mpg) to get a sense of if it will be realized.
Caedin. C-. Our aircraft carrier in disguise? A few flashes of a a guy that could be a dude down low, but still very very raw - and not a major D or Glass force. Given how raw Caedin was, I do struggle to understand how the 7'1" guy on our bench couldn't have seen 5 mpg this year - a "big" line-up of Clark, Gold, Jop, Chase and Kam at least would have given us a different look when we were going through one of our patented 6-minute FG-less stretches. On most teams, Caedin would need to take some major steps forward to justify a major increase in minutes next year - but given our big situation it seems like he plays a significant role. Again, the best thing about Freshmen is the become Sophmores.
The rest A. Guys who show up every day and put in the work for no NIL, scholarship, or minutes have my complete respect.
Shaka C. At the end of the day, the players play, but the Coach owns the results. And the results were not good but also not terrible - e.g. a C. But you do have to wonder how a guy that had us at #7 in Week 11 ended up heading home with a nary a NCAAT win. Of the T-10 that week, the other 9 teams included all four 1 seeds, two of the 2 seeds, and two of the 3 seeds - all of whom are still playing. Only KU fell as far as we did (so yay?). Yes Shaka can't take 3s for Kam, but as teams started to gel and started to adjust to Kam, it is on the coach make adjustments - that's literally why he is Marquette's highest paid employee by orders of magnitude. Introduce some new/different action. Figure out a new D-look. Change up your starters/rotations. Get some set plays to get Kam going. Work on shooting F-ing free throws. Something else - I don't know - you figure it out Shaka - that's why you're getting paid $3 million per year and I'm some schmo on the internet. No matter how you sugar coat it, we went from a team that was in most people's FF conversation, to a team that exited the tourney in its 3rd straight year to a worse seed. So much is there with Shaka and the program, but he needs to figure out how to consistently get it done in February and March - 60% winning pct in those months not so bueno.
Team D
Kam B and Chase B+ is crazy work.
Agree that Kam didn't maintain his level all season, but I think it has more to do with lack of other people stepping up than his play. Kam was amazing and is the main reason this team achieved what it did.
Quote from: BM1090 on March 22, 2025, 11:35:33 AMKam B and Chase B+ is crazy work.
Agree that Kam didn't maintain his level all season, but I think it has more to do with lack of other people stepping up than his play. Kam was amazing and is the main reason this team achieved what it did.
That guys grades are insane. What did DO show to deserve a B-? Parham was clearly better/ready and gets a C-? Absolutely nutty.
I cannot fathom how you could have possibly curved these to get that combination of grades.
If Tre only got a D, how bad are you to get an F?
Chase and Zaide better than Kam is an interesting take.
Kam A+ (would star on any Marquette team)
Stevie A- (could start on any Marquette team)
Chase A- (could start on any Marquette team)
David B (could start on below average Marquette teams)
Ben B (could start on below average Marquette teams)
Royce B (maybe not start, but is also a freshman)
Tre C (Bench rotation)
Zaide C (Bench rotation)
Damarius and Caedin = Bad Freshmen
Quote from: 1SE on March 22, 2025, 05:40:24 AMGive us yours. Mine:
Stewie. B A pretty consistent theme in these grades is going to be inconsistency. At his best, Stevie was a BEDPOY candidate who could knock down an open 3 and finish at the rim. At his worst, he was Derrick Wilson 2.0 who unfortunately will have had the last TV replay of his career being Devon Dent blowing by him down the lane for a lay-up to put NM up 5 with 5 to play, a deficit we'd never get closer than. Maybe the wheels were really out of grease in the second half of the season, a tough end for a guy with a great heart and motor. Would love to see him back on the MU sidelines next year.
Kam. B. B for a 2nd-team All-American you say? Yes, because while most of the guys were inconsistent game to game, Kam was really a tale of two seasons. 1st half - consensus 1st team AA, NPOY dark horse - A+. 2nd half - 3rd team all-BE (C-) - average it to a B. Maybe it is just the scouting report got out about a guy who only goes left and plays below the rim. But that doesn't explain what happened to his shot. I really feel for Kam because had he played to his early-season form he was probably a late 1st round pick putting 7 figures in the bank. Now it's G-league or Europe. Oooff.
Chase B+. Chase had a solid season and is really the only starter who progressed (or at least didn't regress). Our one guy who could consistently play above the rim - he definitely flashed Association potential. But he also went MIA in some games (or game stretches). Maybe this was deferring to the seniors, but he never really emerged as a third-option to be "the guy" on any given night. A trio, rather than a duo, of guys who might go off for 20 on any given night would have changed the look of this team. We're ride-or-die with Chase next year, so let's hope he can become the man.
Jop Wagon B If some of our guys were inconsistent from 1st half to 2nd half of the season, or game to game, Dr. Jopple and Mr. Wagon could do it possession to possession (as we saw in the finale - how can one guy be so good and so bad in the same game?!?!). 8 games with 20+. 13 in single digits. Some improved D, but what were his advanced metrics on the dribble drive? Hard not to groan every time he put it on the floor.
Benny G C. I think a lot of the Gold Brick criticism is that Shaka has a completely f'ed big strategy. I don't know if he thought BG was going to be Oso 2.0, or that the Freshman were going to be able to shoulder more load, but BG is not a high-major 5. In the end, 37% from behind the arc is more than serviceable for the role he should have been in - a stretch-4 who plays about 20 mpg. Given that he also showed a little from time to time off the bounce, I think if he was in that role it would have been an A- season. But as a 5 he just couldn't cut it - he couldn't consistently get into a two-man game with Kam or Stewie, he couldn't eat O or D glass, he couldn't be more than a passable rim protector (but part of this is Shaka's scheme - will some knower of ball please tell me why our 5 flashes trap in the middle of the court, 35 ft from the basket, on their best ball-handler?). Again, we ride-or die with Good as Gold next year - hopefully in a slightly different role.
THE BENCH
Zaide. A-. The brightest spot on the team this year. Solid D, could hit a 3, had some nice moves at the rim. At almost 16 minutes per game he shared the 6-man role with Royce, but frankly I wouldn't have minded seeing a bit more. I really hope it's him AND Chase on the floor next year rather than him OR Chase.
Royce. C-. He's a freshman, sure. But if you hit 3s at a sub 30% clip and play 15 mpg per game, you probably shouldn't be taking almost 3 of them a game. Another stretch-4 who really shouldn't be in the 5 but also not really at a stretch 4. Not quite sure what his role is next year - don't really want to see him and BG on the floor at the same time. Best thing about freshmen, they become sophomores.
Tre. D. Sorry, this is Derrick Wilson 2.0. I guess the best thing you can say is that he didn't really regress from his Freshman year - 9.1 mpg in both seasons, 18.9 (frosh) vs. 18.8 (soph) 3pg%, 2.0 (frosh) to 1.9 (soph) ppg. But it's hard to see how a point guard that has a career A/TO ratio of 0.5/0.4, and a FT% of 51.4% has any role on a high-major team. That twitter account may have been fake news, but it would probably be best for all involved if Tre departed for different pastures. The best thing about Sophomores is that they're not Freshman, expect when they are.
DO. B-. Some flashes, but really almost more of an Incomplete. Could be a nice backup for Chase/Zaide next year. The potential is still there, but didn't really see enough (despite 9.8 mpg) to get a sense of if it will be realized.
Caedin. C-. Our aircraft carrier in disguise? A few flashes of a a guy that could be a dude down low, but still very very raw - and not a major D or Glass force. Given how raw Caedin was, I do struggle to understand how the 7'1" guy on our bench couldn't have seen 5 mpg this year - a "big" line-up of Clark, Gold, Jop, Chase and Kam at least would have given us a different look when we were going through one of our patented 6-minute FG-less stretches. On most teams, Caedin would need to take some major steps forward to justify a major increase in minutes next year - but given our big situation it seems like he plays a significant role. Again, the best thing about Freshmen is the become Sophmores.
The rest A. Guys who show up every day and put in the work for no NIL, scholarship, or minutes have my complete respect.
Shaka C. At the end of the day, the players play, but the Coach owns the results. And the results were not good but also not terrible - e.g. a C. But you do have to wonder how a guy that had us at #7 in Week 11 ended up heading home with a nary a NCAAT win. Of the T-10 that week, the other 9 teams included all four 1 seeds, two of the 2 seeds, and two of the 3 seeds - all of whom are still playing. Only KU fell as far as we did (so yay?). Yes Shaka can't take 3s for Kam, but as teams started to gel and started to adjust to Kam, it is on the coach make adjustments - that's literally why he is Marquette's highest paid employee by orders of magnitude. Introduce some new/different action. Figure out a new D-look. Change up your starters/rotations. Get some set plays to get Kam going. Work on shooting F-ing free throws. Something else - I don't know - you figure it out Shaka - that's why you're getting paid $3 million per year and I'm some schmo on the internet. No matter how you sugar coat it, we went from a team that was in most people's FF conversation, to a team that exited the tourney in its 3rd straight year to a worse seed. So much is there with Shaka and the program, but he needs to figure out how to consistently get it done in February and March - 60% winning pct in those months not so bueno.
Grade should be higher.
Kam. B+ Teams schemed to take him away. Was a great facilitator. 3-point shooting was down but I feel that is more on Shaka than Kam.
Royce. C+ Expected little to nothing from him. He was a pleasant surprise. Shot the ball way too much but hit some big-time shots in games. Defense slowly improved.
Grade should be lower.
Ross. C+ Needed more out of him. Was invisible too many games this year. Hopefully he becomes more consistent. For MU success next year, he needs to step up big time or it will be a long year.
Zaide. C+ Solid off the bench. As the season went on, he earned more minutes. Above average defense. Didn't provide enough offensively to make impact on that side of the ball. Besides Ross, this is the next most important player next year. Has huge potential to elevate his game. Needs to do it for us to be successful next year.
DO. D Lots of hype but missed time early. Hit some nice 3-point shots in game 1 or 2 of his season after injury and it looked so promising and then did little to nothing the rest of the way. Looked lost way too much but oozes potential. Has the chance to make the biggest jump in contribution from this year to next. Will he realize his potential.
Caedin D Lots of hype as well but the game was way too fast for him. Looks like a low ceiling guy but has potential to provide 20 minutes of action when he is a Junior/Senior. Can provide the banger down low that every team needs and that this year's team did not have.
If Tre only got a D, how bad are you to get an F?
[/quote]
Id honestly give Hamilton an F. he's one of the most obvious "not a big east level player" scholly guys we've ever had. no hops no athleticism no defense no rebounding no shot no moves just nothing. Tre gets a D and not sure he has any business returning either. laughable parham is a C and Owen's is a b. Owen's potential is crazy but he's raw and did pretty much nothing all year like what the hell clearly parham was better
Quote from: jfp61 on March 22, 2025, 12:03:22 PMKam A+ (would star on any Marquette team)
Stevie A- (could start on any Marquette team)
Chase A- (could start on any Marquette team)
David B (could start on below average Marquette teams)
Ben B (could start on below average Marquette teams)
Royce B (maybe not start, but is also a freshman)
Tre C (Bench rotation)
Zaide C (Bench rotation)
Damarius and Caedin = Bad Freshmen
David started on our 2 seed squad last year what u mean can start on below average Marquette teams
Quote from: jfp61 on March 22, 2025, 12:03:22 PMKam A+ (would star on any Marquette team)
Stevie A- (could start on any Marquette team)
Chase A- (could start on any Marquette team)
David B (could start on below average Marquette teams)
Ben B (could start on below average Marquette teams)
Royce B (maybe not start, but is also a freshman)
Tre C (Bench rotation)
Zaide C (Bench rotation)
Damarius and Caedin = Bad Freshmen
I'll be honest, I don't understand your love for Chase and "hate" for Zaide. I thought they were pretty much equals the last ten games, with playing time being the only thing that separated them. I don't think it could be clearer that Zaide is gonna be a dude next year. Game
Slowed for him. Confidence is high on both ends.
Quote from: jfp61 on March 22, 2025, 12:03:22 PMKam A+ (would star on any Marquette team)
Stevie A- (could start on any Marquette team)
Chase A- (could start on any Marquette team)
David B (could start on below average Marquette teams)
Ben B (could start on below average Marquette teams)
Royce B (maybe not start, but is also a freshman)
Tre C (Bench rotation)
Zaide C (Bench rotation)
Damarius and Caedin = Bad Freshmen
Who does Stevie start ahead of on the 2003 or 2012 teams?
Edit: And which of the Amigos does he start ahead of? Stevie putting Jerel or Wes on the bench?
Quote from: Johnny B on March 22, 2025, 12:21:31 PMDavid started on our 2 seed squad last year what u mean can start on below average Marquette teams
Things just keep getting more asinine today. Tre can shoot it well, just not in games. Yeah, Shaka has underperformed in the tournament, so did Buzz. Joplin's ceiling was starter on a lousy MU team of the past.
Let's just change the board's name to MUGaslighting.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 12:35:51 PMWho does Stevie start ahead of on the 2003 or 2012 teams?
He doesn't. Gaslighting continues.
Kam A: 2nd Team AA.
Stevie A: Played through pain. Warrior
Jop A: March matters. Jop came through
Ross B: solid season given his ability
Gold B: solid season given his ability
Parham B: promising young guy
Lowery B: promising rising junior
Owens C: enough reason for be optimistic
Tre D: needs to go down a level
Hamilton D: needs to go down a level
Shaka C
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 12:35:51 PMWho does Stevie start ahead of on the 2003 or 2012 teams?
Edit: And which of the Amigos does he start ahead of? Stevie putting Jerel or Wes on the bench?
I said could...
Three amigos not withstanding alot of those teams could start a stevie.
Going back to 2011-12 that Blue/mayo spot could be a chase/stevie. They would split time. It wouldn't be 30 minutes per game. But their would be games where they play 25+ when a mayo or blue isn't playing well.
Quote from: jfp61 on March 22, 2025, 01:01:53 PMI said could...
Three amigos not withstanding alot of those teams could start a stevie.
Going back to 2011-12 that Blue/mayo spot could be a chase/stevie. They would split time. It wouldn't be 30 minutes per game. But their would be games where they play 25+ when a mayo or blue isn't playing well.
2011-12 backcourt was Blue, DJO and Cadougan. Mayo came off the bench. Stevie doesn't start ahead of Blue or DJO, and I don't think you want him running point, do you?
Quote from: BM1090 on March 22, 2025, 12:30:39 PMI'll be honest, I don't understand your love for Chase and "hate" for Zaide. I thought they were pretty much equals the last ten games, with playing time being the only thing that separated them. I don't think it could be clearer that Zaide is gonna be a dude next year. Game
Slowed for him. Confidence is high on both ends.
Because Chase is good and plays well in games we win. And Zaide doesn't.
Chase is the second best defender on our team. Zaide was only better than the bad freshmen on defense.
Chase has the usage rate of 17.7% protional to a contributor in most lineups. Zaide is at 11-12% like a Matt Heldt.
Chase can actually make decisions in a pick and roll. Zaide can't.
Chase can create in a pinch. Zaide can't.
Zaide finished the year with 19 less points of +/- than Tre Norman. He is a rotation player.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 01:04:48 PM2011-12 backcourt was Blue, DJO and Cadougan. Mayo came off the bench. Stevie doesn't start ahead of Blue or DJO, and I don't think you want him running point, do you?
First I said Could start. Not would start.
But, Blue is easily replaceable with Stevie and team hardly changes for this year.
Blue shot is miserably until he was a junior.
Blue always played well when it mattered most. But there are some rose colored glasses on what he was over the course of his first 2 seasons.
None of these guys start over anyone from the 2003 team.
I think the season ended about how I imagined it would in August. The team had a great start in the first half of the season that caught me off guard because of cohesion from the previous year. Sean not rejoining this team in January hurt since it would have given another dimension to the team.
I feel like the team needed the ball in Chase's hands much more than it was. Kam needed a releas valve and Chase should have been running off him. Instead the ball found its way to Joe too much, who is great if he is lined up for a shot, but really shouldn't put it on the deck unless he has a clear path.
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 22, 2025, 01:00:55 PMKam A: 2nd Team AA.
Stevie A: Played through pain. Warrior
Jop A: March matters. Jop came through
Ross B: solid season given his ability
Gold B: solid season given his ability
Parham B: promising young guy
Lowery B: promising rising junior
Owens C: enough reason for be optimistic
Tre D: needs to go down a level
Hamilton D: needs to go down a level
Shaka C
Agree with this assessment.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on March 22, 2025, 01:17:15 PMNone of these guys start over anyone from the 2003 team.
I think the season ended about how I imagined it would in August. The team had a great start in the first half of the season that caught me off guard because of cohesion from the previous year. Sean not rejoining this team in January hurt since it would have given another dimension to the team.
I feel like the team needed the ball in Chase's hands much more than it was. Kam needed a releas valve and Chase should have been running off him. Instead the ball found its way to Joe too much, who is great if he is lined up for a shot, but really shouldn't put it on the deck unless he has a clear path.
I mean, if hindsight is allowed..... Kam would start 100% in 2003. And we would invent small ball and bomb teams out from 3.
But when i used the their level of startability, it was just as a way to grade the guys and add context.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 12:35:51 PMWho does Stevie start ahead of on the 2003 or 2012 teams?
Edit: And which of the Amigos does he start ahead of? Stevie putting Jerel or Wes on the bench?
I agree. Having Stevie on the floor was like playing offense four against five down the stretch. He couldn't shoot, he couldn't drive and finish, and he couldn't create. Shaka is loyal to a fault. Chase didn't take the jump expected this year, but he at least forced defenses to cover him. I've greatly enjoyed watching Stevie play and I would hire him in a heartbeat but there are a lot of MU teams for which he wouldn't have been good enough to start. At this point in his career, Chase is in the same boat. People are overrating the talent this team had.
Quote from: jfp61 on March 22, 2025, 01:08:24 PMBecause Chase is good and plays well in games we win. And Zaide doesn't.
Chase is the second best defender on our team. Zaide was only better than the bad freshmen on defense.
Chase has the usage rate of 17.7% protional to a contributor in most lineups. Zaide is at 11-12% like a Matt Heldt.
Chase can actually make decisions in a pick and roll. Zaide can't.
Chase can create in a pinch. Zaide can't.
Zaide finished the year with 19 less points of +/- than Tre Norman. He is a rotation player.
Some of this are facts, some of these are opinions, but most cases I think you're misinterpreting the "why" here. We'll see next year.
I would start Joplin and Kam over Townsend.
Quote from: jfp61 on March 22, 2025, 01:13:02 PMFirst I said Could start. Not would start.
But, Blue is easily replaceable with Stevie and team hardly changes for this year.
Blue shot is miserably until he was a junior.
Blue always played well when it mattered most. But there are some rose colored glasses on what he was over the course of his first 2 seasons.
Kevin Menard
could start on any Marquette team.
(Sorry, Kevin, you don't need to be catching strays)
I mean I love Kam, but for all of you giving him an A - what would he have gotten if he had kept the form all year and been NPOYish - A++++? Come on - he played significantly worse for most of the 2nd half of the season.
True. As did a hampered Stevie. And MU had a worse record. Coincidence, I am sure.
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 04:29:40 PMTrue. As did a hampered Stevie. And MU had a worse record. Coincidence, I am sure.
Yeah - which is why I can't give either of them A's. Like did we ever get a confirmed "Stevie is playing hurt" scoop or is that just all our conjecture? Either way - sucked for him and the team. Hard to play your "A" game hurt.
Quote from: 1SE on March 22, 2025, 04:25:31 PMI mean I love Kam, but for all of you giving him an A - what would he have gotten if he had kept the form all year and been NPOYish - A++++? Come on - he played significantly worse for most of the 2nd half of the season.
He didn't play as a 1st team AA but he still played like a star. What u want a B
Quote from: 1SE on March 22, 2025, 04:34:40 PMYeah - which is why I can't give either of them A's. Like did we ever get a confirmed "Stevie is playing hurt" scoop or is that just all our conjecture? Either way - sucked for him and the team. Hard to play your "A" game hurt.
He started one of the games with a massive full arm brace. Assumed he didn't do that for funsies, but you are right they never admitted anything.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 02:39:24 PMKevin Menard could start on any Marquette team.
(Sorry, Kevin, you don't need to be catching strays)
Me saying that Senior Year Stevie Mitchell could start over sophmore year Vander Blue is very reasonable.
More winshares. More points. More efficent. Shot better percentages accross the board. Better overall defense.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/vander-blue-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/stevie-mitchell-1.html
Quote from: 1SE on March 22, 2025, 04:34:40 PMYeah - which is why I can't give either of them A's. Like did we ever get a confirmed "Stevie is playing hurt" scoop or is that just all our conjecture? Either way - sucked for him and the team. Hard to play your "A" game hurt.
Shaka said right after Thanksgiving that Stevie could not even practice due to achilles tendinitis. So, do we believe Shaka?
OK, I'll give it a shot for giggles:
Kam: A
Yeah, he faded down the stretch, but I think that's largely a result of him having to carry so much of the load all season. Still a great season overall and deserving of 2nd team AA honors.
Stevie: B+
Great defense, great leader, warrior, but often an offensive liability. Injury may have played a role in that, but gotta give a grade based on what I see.
Chase: B
Really looked to be blossoming on the offensive end heading into the stretch, then faded away. Seemed less willing/able to attack the hoop, which should be his strength, and less willing/able to force and absorb contact. In 13 games in December-January, he got to the line 59 times. In 13 games in February-March, 34 times. Needs to be more aggressive if he's going to be the alpha guy next year.
Jop: B-
Is who he is. Plays hard, plays fearlessly, but also too prone to mistakes and streakiness.
Ben: C
Others may disagree, but I just don't see it with him. Unlike Jop who's streaky and aggressive, Ben is streaky and timid. Unlike Jop, who puts it on the floor too often, Ben doesn't put it on the floor enough. Unlike Jop, who has shown the ability to step up in big moments, Ben tends to disappear in big moments. Case in point: Came out hot last night, hitting his first three 3s. Would miss his next five and fouled out in only 22 minutes. Case in point: Didn't attempt a single shot in the BE semis. Hope he comes back and proves me wrong next year.
Zaide: B+
Don't crown him yet, but he provided a glimmer of hope for next year. Definitely saw the confidence grow as he started hitting shots and has the length/athleticism to create matchup problems for opponents.
Tre: D
No need to pile on.
Royce: B
I'm more bullish on him than most, perhaps. Needs to improve his shot selection and defense, but he's got tools that you can work with. The lack of athleticism may hold him back.
Damarius: C
Looked like a baby deer out there most nights. You can see the makings of a good player in there somewhere, but a lot of awkwardness to his game right now. Kind of the anti-Royce: The athletic tools are there, but his game needs a lot of development.
Caedin: Incomplete
Didn't impress, and the fact the staff tried Royce at center instead of him down the stretch isn't encouraging. But the minutes were so limited it's hard to give a grade. Basically a second redshirt season.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 05:45:39 PMOK, I'll give it a shot for giggles:
Caedin: F
Didn't impress, and the fact the staff tried Royce at center instead of him down the stretch isn't encouraging. But the minutes were so limited because he has absolutely zero skill or talent whatsoever.Basically a second redshirt season and needs to go down a level.
FIFY
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 05:45:39 PMCaedin: Incomplete
Didn't impress, and the fact the staff tried Royce at center instead of him down the stretch isn't encouraging. But the minutes were so limited it's hard to give a grade. Basically a second redshirt season.
I don't see it with Hamilton. First Game as a Freshman Theo John was better than Last Game of his Second Year Caedin Hamilton. I thought a realistic goal for him would be to give us what Theo did, but it's looking like his ceiling is significantly lower than that.
The team, which is what this is, gets a B-
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 05:45:39 PMOK, I'll give it a shot for giggles:
Kam: A
Yeah, he faded down the stretch, but I think that's largely a result of him having to carry so much of the load all season. Still a great season overall and deserving of 2nd team AA honors.
Stevie: B+
Great defense, great leader, warrior, but often an offensive liability. Injury may have played a role in that, but gotta give a grade based on what I see.
Chase: B
Really looked to be blossoming on the offensive end heading into the stretch, then faded away. Seemed less willing/able to attack the hoop, which should be his strength, and less willing/able to force and absorb contact. In 13 games in December-January, he got to the line 59 times. In 13 games in February-March, 34 times. Needs to be more aggressive if he's going to be the alpha guy next year.
Jop: B-
Is who he is. Plays hard, plays fearlessly, but also too prone to mistakes and streakiness.
Ben: C
Others may disagree, but I just don't see it with him. Unlike Jop who's streaky and aggressive, Ben is streaky and timid. Unlike Jop, who puts it on the floor too often, Ben doesn't put it on the floor enough. Unlike Jop, who has shown the ability to step up in big moments, Ben tends to disappear in big moments. Case in point: Came out hot last night, hitting his first three 3s. Would miss his next five and fouled out in only 22 minutes. Case in point: Didn't attempt a single shot in the BE semis. Hope he comes back and proves me wrong next year.
Zaide: B+
Don't crown him yet, but he provided a glimmer of hope for next year. Definitely saw the confidence grow as he started hitting shots and has the length/athleticism to create matchup problems for opponents.
Tre: D
No need to pile on.
Royce: B
I'm more bullish on him than most, perhaps. Needs to improve his shot selection and defense, but he's got tools that you can work with. The lack of athleticism may hold him back.
Damarius: C
Looked like a baby deer out there most nights. You can see the makings of a good player in there somewhere, but a lot of awkwardness to his game right now. Kind of the anti-Royce: The athletic tools are there, but his game needs a lot of development.
Caedin: Incomplete
Didn't impress, and the fact the staff tried Royce at center instead of him down the stretch isn't encouraging. But the minutes were so limited it's hard to give a grade. Basically a second redshirt season.
Omax's freshman year at Clemson was basically what DO was this year.
Chase regressed during the year, linear type of player, zero creativity, seemed to lose his confidence shooting, can get open but had no mid range game, then like other on this team went to the hoop and tried a layup shot against the big boys. Not successful. I would give him a C. Lots of development to become the alpha dog next year.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2025, 10:30:53 PMOmax's freshman year at Clemson was basically what DO was this year.
Good point, except OMax probably looked like a lost ox while DO like a baby deer.
Hopefully DO can flourish into a deer that can be feared.
Huge offseason for both him a Royce for future development
Would like to see Chase draw fouls better when he drives. He gets there and falls away every time. He needs to take it up stronger even like a Tonje and draw better fouls and some and ones. I know I'll get the "Tonje pushes off" comments but it works and Chase is capable of getting to the lane when he wants.
Team talent: D-
Team growth: F-
Coaching: D
Culture: D
Future: F
Portal: Incomplete / F
Recruiting: C
Pretty depressing after watching these first rounds have far we have to go just to be at a Sweet 16 level....
The Big East.....The "one and done" league.......
Quote from: burger on March 23, 2025, 04:54:43 AMTeam talent: D-
Team growth: F-
Coaching: D
Culture: D
Future: F
Portal: Incomplete / F
Recruiting: C
Pretty depressing after watching these first rounds have far we have to go just to be at a Sweet 16 level....
The Big East.....The "one and done" league.......
LOL...priceless.
Quote from: burger on March 23, 2025, 04:54:43 AMTeam talent: D-
Team growth: F-
Coaching: D
Culture: D
Future: F
Portal: Incomplete / F
Recruiting: C
Pretty depressing after watching these first rounds have far we have to go just to be at a Sweet 16 level....
The Big East.....The "one and done" league.......
Talent is D- and coaching is a D yet the team was ranked in the top 25 all year except the last and was comfortably in the tourney as a 7 seed.
I hope this is sarcasm/teal I'm just completely missing otherwise this is as dumb or dumber than anything Willie ever posted.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 23, 2025, 08:23:45 AMTalent is D- and coaching is a D yet the team was ranked in the top 25 all year except the last and was comfortably in the tourney as a 7 seed.
I hope this is sarcasm/teal I'm just completely missing otherwise this is as dumb or dumber than anything Willie ever posted.
It appears to be serious. I'm glad you're calling him out on his egregious commentary. We need more heroes like you here.
Quote from: panda2.0 on March 23, 2025, 08:27:31 AMIt appears to be serious. I'm glad you're calling him out on his egregious commentary. We need more heroes like you here.
Thank you. I credit you for giving me that same opportunity numerous times. I appreciate it.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 23, 2025, 08:28:34 AMThank you. I credit you for giving me that same opportunity numerous times. I appreciate it.
This isn't the zinger you think it is.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2025, 10:30:53 PMOmax's freshman year at Clemson was basically what DO was this year.
Excellent point. Two years later OMax was an NBA draft pick. Not saying DO will progress like that, but OMax proved that massive improvement is possible. Oso is another example...hardly played as a freshman and now is a pro.
Are you watching these games.....In the field of 68 where do you rank Marquette's team.....
Somewhere between 40 and 50 most likely....
We can agree on that....
Then we lose 3 significant contributors...
So our ranking next year with the lack of growth this year and we all know freshman typically don't contribute that much....
Next year's rank.....Somewhere between 70 and 100....Most likely....
Stop sipping the Blue and Gold Kool-aide.....It is what it is....
For a team that spends 8th most amount of money in NCAA basketball....
What should we expect?
Better than 70th to 100th....
That is for Damn sure.....
Quote from: burger on March 23, 2025, 09:41:04 AMAre you watching these games.....In the field of 68 where do you rank Marquette's team.....
Somewhere between 40 and 50 most likely....
We can agree on that....
Then we lose 3 significant contributors...
So our ranking next year with the lack of growth this year and we all know freshman typically don't contribute that much....
Next year's rank.....Somewhere between 70 and 100....Most likely....
Stop sipping the Blue and Gold Kool-aide.....It is what it is....
For a team that spends 8th most amount of money in NCAA basketball....
What should we expect?
Better than 70th to 100th....
That is for Damn sure.....
..... ...... ...... ...... ..... ...... ...... ...... ...... ..... .....
Quote from: burger on March 23, 2025, 09:41:04 AMAre you watching these games.....In the field of 68 where do you rank Marquette's team.....
Somewhere between 40 and 50 most likely....
We can agree on that....
Then we lose 3 significant contributors...
So our ranking next year with the lack of growth this year and we all know freshman typically don't contribute that much....
Next year's rank.....Somewhere between 70 and 100....Most likely....
Stop sipping the Blue and Gold Kool-aide.....It is what it is....
For a team that spends 8th most amount of money in NCAA basketball....
What should we expect?
Better than 70th to 100th....
That is for Damn sure.....
🤣
Quote from: burger on March 23, 2025, 09:41:04 AMAre you watching these games.....In the field of 68 where do you rank Marquette's team.....
Somewhere between 40 and 50 most likely....
We can agree on that....
Then we lose 3 significant contributors...
So our ranking next year with the lack of growth this year and we all know freshman typically don't contribute that much....
Next year's rank.....Somewhere between 70 and 100....Most likely....
Stop sipping the Blue and Gold Kool-aide.....It is what it is....
For a team that spends 8th most amount of money in NCAA basketball....
What should we expect?
Better than 70th to 100th....
That is for Damn sure.....
😂 You're on a roll - keep going.
Grades:
Kam - A. Second team All-America - top ten in the country. If that's not worthy of an A, I don't know what kind of grading scale is being used.
Stevie - B+. Limited offensively but more than made up for by his defense, offensive rebounding, hustle, motor, leadership, tenacity, fight, etc. All-time Marquetter.
Ross - B-. Shot pretty well from 3. Top notch defender with jumping ability and quickness. Loved his put-backs. Will be a good 3 & D player, hopefully he can take a bigger offensive role.
Jop - B. 3rd Team all-Big East deserves a B. Hot and cold shooter, but capable of taking game over. Would have been lost this year without his toughness down low. Greatly improved rebounding and defense over the years.
Gold - B-. Ended up with very good 3pt and FT percentages. Did well rebounding considering where played on the perimeter. Had some great stretches and some poor stretches. Needs to be more aggressive. The spotlight was on him because he was the only serviceable center, which probably led to more intense criticism.
Parham - C. For a non five star freshman he did about as well as you can hope for. Wasn't strong enough to play center against guys four and five years older than him (Kalkbrenner, Dixon, Freemantle). Has a good future.
Owens - D+. Showed great athleticism and potential as a shooter. He wasn't ready as a freshman, but has a high ceiling.
Norman - D. Shooting was atrocious, but he has great energy and seemed to have potential as a defender. Was effective driving and rebounding in limited playing time. Having said that, not sure he is a Big East player.
Hamilton - D-. No athleticism or basketball skill. It was a mistake to both the people that hyped him, and the people that believed the hype. At least he stopped taking threes after the first few games. Probably not a Big East player.
Thoughts on the redshirts:
Amadou - last year he only showed leaping ability. The rosiest of rose-colored glasses could see him following the path of McCaskill (raw athlete redshirting his sophomore year), but extremely unlikely.
Clark - He's tall, but if he could have helped the team he would have been rostered. Always hopeful, but will be skeptical of any hype.
Sean - He would have helped this year. Kam was great at catch and shoot threes his first three years, would have helped if he could have been passing the ball to Kam. Didn't like him playing with Kolek because he took the ball out of Kolek's hands, but think he can be a contributor his last two years.
My effort at this exercise:
Kam: A-. 2nd team AA but couldn't take over games the way MU needed him to. Perhaps part of this was coaching... it seemed at times that he was told not to take over... and as the season progressed he kinda forgot how.
Stevie: B. came and went offensively and took lots of risks on Defense - leaving his man for a steal attempt and then the ball would get back to his man for an open 3. While his defensive counting stats were good, his risk and recovery were not deserving of an A.
Jop: D. On offense, when he has the ball it's going up. When he doesn't have the ball it's like 4 vs 7 because he's like a defender and brings his man into help positions against better players like Kam. There were a few moments when teammates criticized him but it seems Shaka loved him too much. The dumbest and most selfish player on an MU team in a long time. For the first half of the season, his defense was better than anyone on the bench, but in March Zaide's defense was better.
Ben: C. His defense was better than most give him credit for, but his inability to get it going on offense was disappointing.
Chase: B-. Nice D. Would have liked to see him more aggressive to the hoop much more regularly. Nice improvement from last year and need another big jump.
Zaide: B- but later in the year was almost an A. Came along nicely as the year progressed.
Norman: F. Added almost nothing
Parham: B-... Defense improved, bad hands, only shot when he had the ball. Nice potential. I'd like to see him as the roll man if he can learn how to catch the ball. No fear, which is a good thing.
Damarius: C. Just couldn't use his limited skills in the MU framework. System was not for him. Needs drives and lobs.
Hamilton: F. doesn't mean there's not potential. Sets good screens. Tries hard. No results.
Shaka: C- This was his most talented team but worst result considering the talent level. No offensive scheme at all.
Nevada: F. Obsolete. Everybody knows his offense now. It's too easy to defend. He's gotta go.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 23, 2025, 11:44:10 AM😂 You're on a roll - keep going.
Tell me a counter argument without modifications/changes?
Cam: C - seems like a nice kid but let's face it, bit if a choker
Stevie: D - would be a great student manager
Jop: D - hope he doesn't get his degree
Chase: D - better start to learn fast food management
Gold: D - can we get him deported?
Tre: F - wouldn't play at UWGB
Parnham: D - so much for the buzz on him
Owens: F - hope he knows transfer portal
Hamilton: F - he should take up hackey sack
Shaka: F - would be nice if he took the Nova job
Nevada: F- He needs to run a mystery offense teams won't be able to scout.
Offense: D- wish Don Kojis was alive
Defense: C- wish Luke Fischer was alive
Quote from: burger on March 23, 2025, 02:25:33 PMTell me a counter argument without modifications/changes?
What?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 23, 2025, 02:30:59 PMCam: C - seems like a nice kid but let's face it, bit if a choker
Stevie: D - would be a great student manager
Jop: D - hope he doesn't get his degree
Chase: D - better start to learn fast food management
Gold: D - can we get him deported?
Tre: F - wouldn't play at UWGB
Parnham: D - so much for the buzz on him
Owens: F - hope he knows transfer portal
Hamilton: F - he should take up hackey sack
Shaka: F - would be nice if he took the Nova job
Nevada: F- He needs to run a mystery offense teams won't be able to scout.
Offense: D- wish Don Kojis was alive
Defense: C- wish Luke Fischer was alive
How did you forget to grade Steve Munchen?
Kam: A. Second team all-american.
Joplin: B. His good was very good. His bad was not.
Stevie: B. I wish the rest of his body was as strong as his heart.
Chase: B-. Reminds me of early Jimmy Butler. I hope he learns to finish in traffic like Jimmy did.
Ben: B. He did not foul out of every game. Similarly to Stevie, shin splints and broken finger hampered him.
Caedin: C-. I think the coaches believed what they said a year ago when they said he could have helped the 23-24 team. Practice work did not carry over to games.
Royce: B A natural replacement for Jop. Not a big. Fought hard. My favorite freshman in some time.
Zaide: B. A pleasant surprise and I hope the Villanova game is foreshadowing and not the outlier
Tre: C. Flashes, particularly on defense. Not enough of them
DO: Incomplete. Lost two months of preseason development and never really caught up. But tantalizing flashes.
Coaching: B. I think that they believed it when they said that Hamilton could have helped the 23-24 season, or agreed when Kam said on his podcast that CH was going to be a problem. I think that they thought the DO of the August scrimmage would be a contributor. I think they thought that Sean would be ready by conference season.
I think they tried to have Ben defend like Oso too much. Ben is athletic, but not the unicorn Oso was. I hope going forward they start only switching 1-4 and let the 7 footers stay home.
Offensively, MU got the shots the offense was designed to get, the players missed too many shots. And didn't seek out and finish through contact. It is my fervent hope that they incorporate some of UConn's off ball screening and movement.
Overall: B. I will never complain about 23 wins. I think there were more injuries than even were speculated about.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 23, 2025, 02:30:59 PMCam: C - seems like a nice kid but let's face it, bit if a choker
Stevie: D - would be a great student manager
Jop: D - hope he doesn't get his degree
Chase: D - better start to learn fast food management
Gold: D - can we get him deported?
Tre: F - wouldn't play at UWGB
Parnham: D - so much for the buzz on him
Owens: F - hope he knows transfer portal
Hamilton: F - he should take up hackey sack
Shaka: F - would be nice if he took the Nova job
Nevada: F- He needs to run a mystery offense teams won't be able to scout.
Offense: D- wish Don Kojis was alive
Defense: C- wish Luke Fischer was alive
Uh oh ricos triggered someone didn't give everyone an A + and a sticker :0
Quote from: Johnny B on March 23, 2025, 02:52:17 PMUh oh ricos triggered someone didn't give everyone an A + and a sticker :0
Yes, that is it.