OK, I get it. We're all disappointed about losing to the Lobos. Perhaps nobody is more disappointed than Coach Shaka himself or the guys who played their hearts out -- for us.
Going into the season, we were viewed as a middle of the pack Big East team. We had some early great wins but, like it or not, we regressed to the mean expected of us. This was in no small measure because our two best players from 2023-2024 are in the NBA. Ben Gold and Chase Ross are not Oso Igadoro and Tyler Kolek. More importantly, Kolek's leadership was badly missing.
We lacked a banger inside and we lacked demonstrable, experienced depth. Hopefully, our recruiting and growth changes that.
All this said, c'mon now. We suffered through years of Coach Wojo and going to the Not Invited Tournament ("NIT"), if we went anywhere at all. When we went to the NCAA, we were blown out by Murray State. That's right for those who want to forget -- Murray State! Since Coach Shaka came, we've been to the NCAA four times and got back to the Sweet 16.
Tonight showed, we still have ways to go. Coach knows that better than anyone.
I'm old enough to remember Marquette as a "Blueblood." I'm hoping we get there again, preferably soon. The road is a lot tougher than it was in the 1970s but I'm optimistic Coach Shaka is the guy -- assuming we all don't aggravate the hell out of him.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 21, 2025, 09:58:10 PMOK, I get it. We're all disappointed about losing to the Lobos. Perhaps nobody is more disappointed than Coach Shaka himself or the guys who played their hearts out -- for us.
Going into the season, we were viewed as a middle of the pack Big East team. We had some early great wins but, like it or not, we regressed to the mean expected of us. This was in no small measure because our two best players from 2023-2024 are in the NBA. Ben Gold and Chase Ross are not Oso Igadoro and Tyler Kolek. More importantly, Kolek's leadership was badly missing.
We lacked a banger inside and we lacked demonstrable, experienced depth. Hopefully, our recruiting and growth changes that.
All this said, c'mon now. We suffered through years of Coach Wojo and going to the Not Invited Tournament ("NIT"), if we went anywhere at all. When we went to the NCAA, we were blown out by Murray State. That's right for those who want to forget -- Murray State! Since Coach Shaka came, we've been to the NCAA four times and got back to the Sweet 16.
Tonight showed, we still have ways to go. Coach knows that better than anyone.
I'm old enough to remember Marquette as a "Blueblood." I'm hoping we get there again, preferably soon. The road is a lot tougher than it was in the 1970s but I'm optimistic Coach Shaka is the guy -- assuming we all don't aggravate the hell out of him.
Ty, brother dgies. But I'm really struggling with this one and how we closed the season.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 21, 2025, 09:58:10 PMOK, I get it. We're all disappointed about losing to the Lobos. Perhaps nobody is more disappointed than Coach Shaka himself or the guys who played their hearts out -- for us.
Going into the season, we were viewed as a middle of the pack Big East team. We had some early great wins but, like it or not, we regressed to the mean expected of us. This was in no small measure because our two best players from 2023-2024 are in the NBA. Ben Gold and Chase Ross are not Oso Igadoro and Tyler Kolek. More importantly, Kolek's leadership was badly missing.
We lacked a banger inside and we lacked demonstrable, experienced depth. Hopefully, our recruiting and growth changes that.
All this said, c'mon now. We suffered through years of Coach Wojo and going to the Not Invited Tournament ("NIT"), if we went anywhere at all. When we went to the NCAA, we were blown out by Murray State. That's right for those who want to forget -- Murray State! Since Coach Shaka came, we've been to the NCAA four times and got back to the Sweet 16.
Tonight showed, we still have ways to go. Coach knows that better than anyone.
I'm old enough to remember Marquette as a "Blueblood." I'm hoping we get there again, preferably soon. The road is a lot tougher than it was in the 1970s but I'm optimistic Coach Shaka is the guy -- assuming we all don't aggravate the hell out of him.
1000% The expectations are because we have a great coach. Victim of his own success. The last four years have been a really fun ride and the future is bright.
As I said in another thread:
"Do we really want to go back to where we were just four short years ago...????"
Trying to paint the last 3 NCAA appearances as anything but gross underachievement is ridiculous.
This team was different obviously than last year but we were better overall defensively, and had enough imo to make a run in the tournament. What really disappoints me is we never had any balance on the offensive end, and honestly had guys disappear. Mitchell and Ross scoring mattered in our wins. What really bothers me is we were at our best moving the basketbal, reversing, and then attacking. In the last 2 months we went away from that with far more iso garbage along with the weave and heave. This should have never happened and is a tough pill to swallow.
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on March 21, 2025, 10:04:47 PMTrying to paint the last 3 NCAA appearances as anything but gross underachievement is ridiculous.
Yep
Yeah this is a tough sell all around.
Coming in were there question marks? 100%. Were we fringe top 25? 100%.
But we had a good non con even with the Dayton debacle. Started solid in BE. THen for almost 3 months struggled. Basically didn't beat a team with a pulse. Mostly beat, sometimes lost to those without. Pounded the really bad depleted.
We started 3 seniors. 2 juniors. All from the program. 1 is the 2nd all time scorer. Another a 12ish pt scorer and the other a all American defender.
We flat lined.
Does that happen? Sure. But two years ago we were a 2 seed upset by a 7. Last year upset in the sweet 16 with a massive goose egg vs a 11.
Thought to just say perspective is regress to the mean, when a team this year faded. And failed to even come close to compensating for actual good seasons endings.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 21, 2025, 10:04:22 PMAs I said in another thread:
"Do we really want to go back to where we were just four short years ago...????"
No, but I also don't want to be a program that's just happy to be invited to the dance. We can be happy that Shaka is unequivocally better than Wojo and still be frustrated at his inability to rise to the challenge in March.
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on March 21, 2025, 10:04:47 PMTrying to paint the last 3 NCAA appearances as anything but gross underachievement is ridiculous.
RGV
Look, we've had 4 very good seasons under Shaka. There's no doubt we've had three brutal tournament losses. Especially last year. But you have to get there above all else. That's what we have to remember. It's beyond frustrating, and we can talk about roster construction, the portal, or what have you. My wish list is pretty extensive:
Badass big both defensively and offensively.
Knock down shooter/ Preferably a 6'5-6'7 Rowsey.
Attacking lead guard that can dime and finish.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 21, 2025, 10:04:22 PMAs I said in another thread:
"Do we really want to go back to where we were just four short years ago...????"
Setting the bar at "better than what got the last guy fired" is ultimate COLE.
Shaka believes in development, wonder how the assistants think about that? To many projects, not enough horses.
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 21, 2025, 10:41:41 PMShaka believes in development, wonder how the assistants think about that? To many projects, not enough horses.
We honestly don't know that.
Quote from: IL Warrior on March 21, 2025, 10:30:12 PMNo, but I also don't want to be a program that's just happy to be invited to the dance. We can be happy that Shaka is unequivocally better than Wojo and still be frustrated at his inability to rise to the challenge in March.
Scoop is odd in that we'll argue like hell with each other, yet we all love Marquette Basketball and all that it is, has been and will be. I have no doubt we are collectively happy with Shaka compared to Woj. Woj wasn't an abject disaster imo, just really disappointing because his pedigree said home run. Shaka? I'm still trying to figure it out. Year 1 was a rebuild with a bid we all applauded. Yrs 2 & 3 were excellent in terms of regular season, but gut punch ncaa's. Yr 4 started great, but a mid-conf 3-game losing streak set the tone for the balance of the season...a Wojo-like fade. I'm surprised we were seeded higher than Creighton and UConn (I know, analytics said our 7-seed was appropriate, but the eye-test said no way) and not surprised we lost tonight. And, I absolutely do not accept 'happy to be invited'. I also don't have answers other than we either need better players, or we need better coached players. Probably some of both. Our competition is ever changing & adjusting. Status quo will not cut it. I want so bad a natty, but is 2nd weekend two years running too much to ask for?
This was not a good season at all. What are we hanging our hat on? Early season wins against Purdue, Maryland and Wisconsin? LOL. THEY ARE ALL STILL PLAYING. We only picked them off because of some early season continuity. This was barely a top 50 team and if you think otherwise you haven't been watching. Rick faxed over a one pager to Richard and they beat us without even thinking about it. Embarasssing.
Quote from: MU_CHI on March 22, 2025, 12:12:01 AMThis was not a good season at all. What are we hanging our hat on? Early season wins against Purdue, Maryland and Wisconsin? LOL. THEY ARE ALL STILL PLAYING. We only picked them off because of some early season continuity. This was barely a top 50 team and if you think otherwise you haven't been watching. Rick faxed over a one pager to Richard and they beat us without even thinking about it. Embarasssing.
probably a quick text Friday morning. Here ya go kid...this, this, that and you'll win.
Quote from: Viper on March 21, 2025, 11:51:18 PMWoj wasn't an abject disaster imo,
7 years w/o an NCAA win? Woj was an abject disaster imo.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 22, 2025, 12:43:05 AM7 years w/o an NCAA win? Woj was an abject disaster imo.
Ya....this is a fact.
But discussing our last 3 tourney failures, and what needs to be done to make deep runs, is fair and vitally important.
Quote from: Viper on March 22, 2025, 12:25:45 AMprobably a quick text Friday morning. Here ya go kid...this, this, that and you'll win.
Our offense has to be the easiest to scout/defend in the conference. They're either shooting a 3 or driving into to traffic for a highly contested layup. That's it. Now next year they'll do the same but without an All American guard on the team. Very likely looking at a sub .500 team next year. But, hey, they'll be connected.
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on March 22, 2025, 08:09:55 AMOur offense has to be the easiest to scout/defend in the conference. They're either shooting a 3 or driving into to traffic for a highly contested layup. That's it. Now next year they'll do the same but without an All American guard on the team. Very likely looking at a sub .500 team next year. But, hey, they'll be connected.
LOL
Ye
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on March 22, 2025, 08:09:55 AMOur offense has to be the easiest to scout/defend in the conference. They're either shooting a 3 or driving into to traffic for a highly contested layup. That's it. Now next year they'll do the same but without an All American guard on the team. Very likely looking at a sub .500 team next year. But, hey, they'll be connected.
Yes, connected, developed, and for a life experience, have lasting relationships.
MU just had the most wins in a 4 year span since the McGuire era. One day, Kam, Stevie, and Jop will be spoken of with the same reverence as the three amigos. More tournament would be welcome, of course, but the same can be said of that now sepia tinted era.
Buzz won tournament games, but that was also usually team bubble watch and the common lament was that he relied too much on transfers and didn't develop high schoolers.
Anyway, other than the season ending sooner than I would have like, which is the same complaint that every fanbase but one makes, I enjoyed the season and will now sit back and watch how the offseason shakes out.
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on March 22, 2025, 08:09:55 AMOur offense has to be the easiest to scout/defend in the conference. They're either shooting a 3 or driving into to traffic for a highly contested layup. That's it. Now next year they'll do the same but without an All American guard on the team. Very likely looking at a sub .500 team next year. But, hey, they'll be connected.
Truth hurts sometimes.
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on March 21, 2025, 10:04:47 PMTrying to paint the last 3 NCAA appearances as anything but gross underachievement is ridiculous.
I don't know about that. Last year was our best shot in a long time. It was not Shaka's fault we lost to NC State. The pieces were there. Unfortunately, the team was at a bricklayers convention. It is not Shaka's fault they were ice cold that game.
Sometimes the players just don't get it done. Shaka is the right guy for MU.He will sort it out.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 22, 2025, 11:10:31 AMI don't know about that. Last year was our best shot in a long time. It was not Shaka's fault we lost to NC State. The pieces were there. Unfortunately, the team was at a bricklayers convention. It is not Shaka's fault they were ice cold that game.
Sometimes the players just don't get it done. Shaka is the right guy for MU.He will sort it out.
Yep, other than the bricklayers he recruited, it's not his fault.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 22, 2025, 11:10:31 AMI don't know about that. Last year was our best shot in a long time. It was not Shaka's fault we lost to NC State. The pieces were there. Unfortunately, the team was at a bricklayers convention. It is not Shaka's fault they were ice cold that game.
Sometimes the players just don't get it done. Shaka is the right guy for MU.He will sort it out.
And...
The CoS will never blame the coach, the only excuse is the players did not perform to their capabilities.
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 11:04:21 AMOne day, Kam, Stevie, and Jop will be spoken of with the same reverence as the three amigos.
Insulting to Neek, Jerel and Wes.
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on March 22, 2025, 08:09:55 AMOur offense has to be the easiest to scout/defend in the conference. They're either shooting a 3 or driving into to traffic for a highly contested layup. That's it. Now next year they'll do the same but without an All American guard on the team. Very likely looking at a sub .500 team next year. But, hey, they'll be connected.
and balanced. We'll have a balanced roster!
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 11:26:10 AMSepia
Cute, but if you truly think those three are on the same planet as the Amigos, I don't know what to tell you.
Quote from: 🏀 on March 22, 2025, 11:28:12 AMCute, but if you truly think those three are on the same planet as the Amigos, I don't know what to tell you.
100%.
Fated to disagree.
Early season success set our expectations too high. Our offense was very predictable and difficult to watch with the lack of crisp passing and movement off the ball
I have very mixed feelings about this season. I enjoyed watching the team but they gave me indigestion the last part of the season. You cannot call yourself a good team when you cannot beat other good teams. 0-3 against SJ...0-2 against UConn...lose 4 of the last 5 games...one and out in the tournament... That does not sound like a really good team - just a middle of the pack BE team. But, at the same time, the guys played their asses off and, I think, consistently gave 100% of what they had. You have to give the players credit for that.
Will next year's team be better? No, probably not. In fact, next season may well be worse as young players develop and rely on Ross and Gold for leadership. I'm not sure how that will work out, but it will be interesting to watch.
Is Shaka's approach of avoiding the portal going to work? I have no idea, but I do think Shaka is taking the harder road. But, I do understand the difficulties of the portal. I saw an article the other day claiming that Louisville is prepared to spend $8 to 10 million acquiring portal players. No way MU can compete with that. At the same time, I will have to be convinced that players like Parham, Norman, and Owens plus a continual parade of project big men is going to get the program where we would all like to see it go. (I intentionally left Lowery out of that sentence because I do think he is the real deal.)
My issues around roster construction is what happens when there is an injury or for that matter just your average "off" night. When you see Ben Gold disappear from the stat line for 3 or 4 games or watch a clearly injured/hurting Stevie play and watch him get eaten up by a guy he would, under healthy circumstances, devour.. Stevie and Gold continue to play and the reason can only be that severely impaired Stevie or Gold is better than what comes off the bench? I don't expect guys 6-10 be as good as 1-5 but I don't think it recipe for success when guys 6-10 can't play high level D-1 ball. In reality it's probably guys 7.5-10. Did Shaka and the rest of the coaching staff miss that badly??
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 11:31:00 AMFated to disagree.
Would love to debate it over 18 holes one day.
Quote from: rgoode57 on March 22, 2025, 11:49:02 AMIs Shaka's approach of avoiding the portal going to work? I have no idea, but I do think Shaka is taking the harder road. But, I do understand the difficulties of the portal. I saw an article the other day claiming that Louisville is prepared to spend $8 to 10 million acquiring portal players. No way MU can compete with that. At the same time, I will have to be convinced that players like Parham, Norman, and Owens plus a continual parade of project big men is going to get the program where we would all like to see it go. (I intentionally left Lowery out of that sentence because I do think he is the real deal.)
Shaka's portal philosophy is just avoidance. We are going to have to pay regardless of participation in the portal. We paid Kam, Jop, Stevie and everyone else. Did we get a discount? Maybe on our top players but are we overpaying the bottom of the roster?
We are going to have to compete against Louisville and the like if we want high end players so we will be dishing out lots of money. If we can compete there, then our expectations should be lowered.
The problem with Shaka's portal philosophy is if he doesn't hit on his recruiting, we are stuck with below average players with no other means of improvement.
Shaka could easily alter his portal philosophy such that the portal is secondary way to enhance his teams with obvious weaknesses, not be the go-to method.
Shaka is really not going to use the portal, he better be bringing in a few top 50 players year after year. With 15 scholarship players, you can afford a few projects but not the roster. You miss on recruiting one year and you are in trouble.
Quote from: PointWarrior on March 22, 2025, 11:13:42 AMYep, other than the bricklayers he recruited, it's not his fault.
I've rewatched that NC state game a couple of times bc I'm a masochist. We outplayed them. Out coached them. The only difference was shot making.
Yes Shaka probably has to recruit some better shot makers. But that game was just open miss after open miss at the wrong time.
Oh now we better be careful not to aggravate the hell out of Shaka. Rigghhttt. What about the way he has aggravated the hell out of the fans? He makes what--around 4 million per? Maybe he should put on his big boy pants, you know the ones that hold his wallet in the pocket, and stop the slide the team has been on. Oops, sorry. Please, please Shaka, please try to get better results. Please Shaka. We will try harder not to aggravate the hell out of you.
Quote from: 🏀 on March 22, 2025, 12:18:13 PMWould love to debate it over 18 holes one day.
Not after the range session I just had. My swing was more off than a Dominic James free throw.
Quote from: PointWarrior on March 22, 2025, 11:13:42 AMYep, other than the bricklayers he recruited, it's not his fault.
Shaka had an interesting quote post game when asked about the slide. He basically said they have to go out and play without being connected to the results. Said they did that better early and not so much down that poor stretch. Maybe these guys put too much pressure on themselves to get over the hump. He has to figure out a way to get them to play loose in big moments.
First of all no one should be asking for Shaka to be fired or believing that the season was a disaster. And having concerns about the future should not be construed as being ungrateful for the success that Shaka and the 3 seniors brought us since they took over the program 4 years ago.
That said Shaka seems to be pretty dug in to the idea of avoiding the transfer portal and all that goes with it including dealing with players agents. He values "relationships" above everything else and being loyal to the guys he recruited above all else. These are all admirable values. The problem is he needs to win in a high major league and he needs to have more success in March. By that I mean winning more frequently when facing a lesser seeded team and occasionally upsetting a favorite.
College sports have changed a lot since Shaka got here. As of now these guys are effectively being treated as "professionals" playing on 1 year contracts. This is not how Shaka believes it should be (its not how I believe it should be either) but until someone steps in to manage this situation this free for all is the way it is and the way we should plan on it staying. Shaka standing as the poster child for doing it the "right way" is not going to change the system and only risks as I've heard it phrased "Marquette being road kill on the road to reform".
Shaka should use the portal to bring in critical pieces that have talents proven at the college level in skills his current team needs. If your offense dictates that you shoot a lot of 3s you need a proven 3 point shooter. If you currently lack a rim protecting center or a rebounder you can get that 1 person. You can do this without changing over your whole team each year. One or two players brought in this way is not going to wreck your culture assuming you are a strong coach. Will there be NIL issues? Probably, and they may stop MU from getting some of the most sought-after players. But you have to play the game. Having "relationships" as Shaka does, may mean telling a current player "I may not be able to get you as much $$ as last year" or "you may have to wait a little longer for bigger $ because we all want to win next year and we need this other skill set to win". Its not easy but I think Shaka is skillful enough to pull it off. Recruiting HS kids is a crap shoot and sometimes they may prove to be almost there after a year but you can't wait.
Standing against the system and saying I'm going to be 100% for my current players all the time is the easier way to go but its unlikely to lead to success when the rest of the high major world patches their weaknesses with known solutions every off season.
You try to take a walk to take your mind off things and the universe just shoves it in your face.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 22, 2025, 11:10:31 AMI don't know about that. Last year was our best shot in a long time. It was not Shaka's fault we lost to NC State. The pieces were there. Unfortunately, the team was at a bricklayers convention. It is not Shaka's fault they were ice cold that game.
Sometimes the players just don't get it done. Shaka is the right guy for MU.He will sort it out.
Ugh. Right. Shaka was not missing those shots. I think that part is pretty clear. He was also not capable of adjusting bc his offense does not allow it.
How many series does it take to keep running the ball up the middle for one yard on first/second down then running the same out route on 3 and 8 before the other team knows exactly how to defend you?
A 2 seed (with 2 NBA players on the roster) losing to an 11 is a disaster any way you slice it. And it falls on the coach.
The two main offensive weapons, who were average three-point shooters at best, were asked to lead an offense that relies on three-point shooting. Add to that, when they missed shots, and they missed almost 70% of them, there was no one capable of getting offensive rebounds. The team also was missing a consistent inside scorer. Every game was them expending tons of energy on offense with not enough to show for it.
To sum it up, this was a very-poorly constructed team with enough talent to beat bad and average teams, but not enough pieces to win consistently against teams above average and up.
Quote from: Tums Festival on March 22, 2025, 02:06:12 PMThe two main offensive weapons, who were average three-point shooters at best, were asked to lead an offense that relies on three-point shooting. Add to that, when they missed shots, and they missed almost 70% of them, there was no one capable of getting offensive rebounds. The team also was missing a consistent inside scorer. Every game was them expending tons of energy on offense with not enough to show for it.
To sum it up, this was a very-poorly constructed team with enough talent to beat bad and average teams, but not enough pieces to win consistently against teams above average and up.
Amen brother
The roster problems that lead to the preseason rankings finally bit us in the a$$. If not (for example) the persistent inbounds failures we should be praising Shaka for the early season coaching job. Relatively poor 3 point shooting, a lack of any real offensive rebounding, and an interior offense that relied on slashing guards to complete remarkable finishes caught up to us hard when the counters were identified. The lack of any bench presence or any ability to change up the offense when driving lanes were cut off makes what this team did accomplish more surprising. Those complaining about "relationships" could always try to solve that program limitation by opening their checkbooks. I can't imagine Shaka not taking in some portal help with an extra 5-10 mil a year to throw around. To fall so fast and hard from the height we were at makes this more bitter to be sure, but middle of the BE likely means NIT in the current NIL world.
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 11:04:21 AMAnyway, other than the season ending sooner than I would have like, which is the same complaint that every fanbase but one makes, I enjoyed the season and will now sit back and watch how the offseason shakes out.
Tower, I admire your optimism and wouldn't mind a bit of what you're sipping sometimes. This season just felt like a train that was on track, slowly derailing into a total wreck. I didn't expect MU to completely keep up with their pace to start the year, but folding down the stretch forced them into a difficult first round matchup even as a 7 seed.
I must admit that despite the tournament blunders, Shaka and his MU teams have exceeded expectations I had for them before each year. It's just a tough pill to swallow because it feels like a rebuild may be in store for the next couple of years. Who is poised to be the breakout player(s) for MU on offense next year?
Quote from: rgoode57 on March 22, 2025, 11:49:02 AMI have very mixed feelings about this season. I enjoyed watching the team but they gave me indigestion the last part of the season. You cannot call yourself a good team when you cannot beat other good teams. 0-3 against SJ...0-2 against UConn...lose 4 of the last 5 games...one and out in the tournament... That does not sound like a really good team - just a middle of the pack BE team. But, at the same time, the guys played their asses off and, I think, consistently gave 100% of what they had. You have to give the players credit for that.
Will next year's team be better? No, probably not. In fact, next season may well be worse as young players develop and rely on Ross and Gold for leadership. I'm not sure how that will work out, but it will be interesting to watch.
Is Shaka's approach of avoiding the portal going to work? I have no idea, but I do think Shaka is taking the harder road. But, I do understand the difficulties of the portal. I saw an article the other day claiming that Louisville is prepared to spend $8 to 10 million acquiring portal players. No way MU can compete with that. At the same time, I will have to be convinced that players like Parham, Norman, and Owens plus a continual parade of project big men is going to get the program where we would all like to see it go. (I intentionally left Lowery out of that sentence because I do think he is the real deal.)
Explain why MU cannot compete at 8 to 10 million for portal players. Not enough people kicking in? Doubt it. But if that is the case, then we need to move down to D2.
I. The 50 ish years that I have been aware of sports...
Every baseball season but one has ended in disappointment.
Every NFL season has ended in disappointment.
With 3 exceptions, Every NBA season has ended with my team out.
College basketball, I have been an MU hoops junkie for 40 years, Every season in that time has ended with, wait for it, a loss.
I participated in the coaching of 39 teams in 5 sports. Two championships. Ergo, 37 other seasons.... though to be fair, won a couple of consolations brackets.
So, to me, it is disappointing. It is always a little sad when a team you really like doesn't go as far as you think they should.
This season does not even make a blip on my wailing, gnashing of teeth, rending of garments, blow everything up spectrum.
Think Dukiet, Matt Patricia, 2003 Tigers, 2008 Lions for that. This is just a run of the mill disappointment.
Quote from: muhoops1 on March 22, 2025, 01:20:51 PMShaka had an interesting quote post game when asked about the slide. He basically said they have to go out and play without being connected to the results. Said they did that better early and not so much down that poor stretch. Maybe these guys put too much pressure on themselves to get over the hump. He has to figure out a way to get them to play loose in big moments.
Whatever the hell that means. What he should have said is that he needs to recruit better players and prepare for the big games, because this year was a disaster, and next year may even be more of a disaster. Giddyup Shaka.Earn your big time salary.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 22, 2025, 03:11:08 PMExplain why MU cannot compete at 8 to 10 million for portal players. Not enough people kicking in? Doubt it. But if that is the case, then we need to move down to D2.
That is exactly it. You grossly overestimate how much money BB donors are kicking in. How much do you think Be the Difference had this past season?? You might know if you participated.
Quote from: connie on March 22, 2025, 02:36:31 PMI can't imagine Shaka not taking in some portal help with an extra 5-10 mil a year to throw around.
From what I've read about this MU is not in a uncompetitive position as far as NIL $$. MU has its share of rich Alums willing to support Bball, some of which came up with $8M to buy out Wojo. Not taking any portal transfers and telling potential player agents "Don't contact us, we don't need you" is not totally about a lack of money. Its a desire stand on principle. Unfortunately when everyone else is using the system it leaves MU with what Shaka would call
"A very small margin for error"
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 22, 2025, 03:25:48 PMFrom what I've read about this MU is not in a uncompetitive position as far as NIL $$. MU has its share of rich Alums willing to support Bball, some of which came up with $8M to buy out Wojo. Not taking any portal transfers and telling potential player agents "Don't contact us, we don't need you" is not totally about a lack of money. Its a desire stand on principle. Unfortunately when everyone else is using the system it leaves MU with what Shaka would call "A very small margin for error"
Participate and find out. The numbers some folks are throwing around is laughable.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 22, 2025, 03:22:51 PMThat is exactly it. You grossly overestimate how much money BB donors are kicking in. How much do you think Be the Difference had this past season?? You might know if you participated.
The good news is few, if any, here expect Shaka/MU to spend $8-10 million in the portal.
It would just be nice to avail oneself to the option for a player here or there, when needed. Last March, everyone recognized two big potential issues with this year's team - the lack of an interior presence and a backup point guard, especially if SJ remained out.
Shaka consciously chose to ignore those needs and instead handed out his final scholarship to a kid who wouldn't help at all this season. He chose hope. He hoped Ben would develop into a better interior player/defender. He hoped Caedin Hamilton could provide quality backup minutes. He hoped Sean Jones would be back by midseason, if not sooner. He hoped Tre Norman could hold down the fort until then.
As we all know, hope is not a strategy for success. And here we are, out after one game, despite having a trio of seniors equal to the Three Amigos (or so I'm told).
No openings after the Clark signing.
From everything I have read, heard from Shaka, been told 4th hand, MU has NIL money. Look at the rumored offers to Kolek to return for his COVID season. Check out his and Kam's reported NIL valuations.
But also look at what Shaka has said about agents and and negotiating. Ergo, I think it can be inferred that MU pays a flat fee.
Shaka said two years ago that he was in contact with a player in the portal a couple of years ago and was taken aback by how much this guy wanted.
And MU clearly pays enough to keep Kam, TKo, Oso from going elsewhere.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 03:38:08 PMThe good news is few, if any, here expect Shaka/MU to spend $8-10 million in the portal.
It would just be nice to avail oneself to the option for a player here or there, when needed. Last March, everyone recognized two big potential issues with this year's team - the lack of an interior presence and a backup point guard, especially if SJ remained out.
Shaka consciously chose to ignore those needs and instead handed out his final scholarship to a kid who wouldn't help at all this season. He chose hope. He hoped Ben would develop into a better interior player/defender. He hoped Caedin Hamilton could provide quality backup minutes. He hoped Sean Jones would be back by midseason, if not sooner. He hoped Tre Norman could hold down the fort until then.
As we all know, hope is not a strategy for success. And here we are, out after one game, despite having a trio of seniors equal to the Three Amigos (or so I'm told).
Shaka hangs his hat on his mentality for better and for worse. I think he chose sticking to his guns more than hope itself.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 03:38:08 PMThe good news is few, if any, here expect Shaka/MU to spend $8-10 million in the portal.
It would just be nice to avail oneself to the option for a player here or there, when needed. Last March, everyone recognized two big potential issues with this year's team - the lack of an interior presence and a backup point guard, especially if SJ remained out.
Shaka consciously chose to ignore those needs and instead handed out his final scholarship to a kid who wouldn't help at all this season. He chose hope. He hoped Ben would develop into a better interior player/defender. He hoped Caedin Hamilton could provide quality backup minutes. He hoped Sean Jones would be back by midseason, if not sooner. He hoped Tre Norman could hold down the fort until then.
As we all know, hope is not a strategy for success. And here we are, out after one game, despite having a trio of seniors equal to the Three Amigos (or so I'm told).
Yup. He had the chance to at least attempt to help this core group achieve greatness and instead looked down the road.
I think he did the 3 seniors wrong. The hurt from all 3 of them afterwards Hopefully strikes a chord with him going forward.
What's done is done. Hopefully Clark turns into a stud.
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 01:07:26 PMNot after the range session I just had. My swing was more off than a Dominic James free throw.
God that was well done, and hurt a little.
Papi and Pakuni - You're both right
Everyone saw the weakness on this team, no back up PG, and no interior presence- NONE. Yet he did nothing. He sat on his hands.
And why the F does a team need to have
3 ... THREE " project " big guys. Caedin
Al, and Clark ? Really. Three scholarships used to not get 5 mins of production for the season....
Sheez
Quote from: Big Papi on March 22, 2025, 03:55:10 PMYup. He had the chance to at least attempt to help this core group achieve greatness and instead looked down the road.
I think he did the 3 seniors wrong. The hurt from all 3 of them afterwards Hopefully strikes a chord with him going forward.
What's done is done. Hopefully Clark turns into a stud.
Did the three seniors wrong? If he went to the portal to improve, he'd have gotten a shooting guard or a PG and a power player. A shooting guard or PG would've have eaten some of Stevie's minutes and that power player would've eaten some of Joplin's minutes. Joplin was very good last night and improved a lot this season (on D, on the board, at scoring inside), but he's an undersized 4 who doesn't jump well. Part of the problem is that the only people creating shots by the end of the year were Kam and Jop. MU needed other perimeter players who were serious threats to score and create. As we saw, Jop dribbling was an adventure to say the least.
If Shaka had a problem this year, it's that he was loyal to a fault.
Frankly, I think this team played above its talent level.
Quote from: 🏀 on March 22, 2025, 06:02:35 PMGod that was well done, and hurt a little.
Heh
I would think Tyler and Oso would be viewed analogous to the three amigos. Maybe include Kam.
Of course, that would likely just be from the amount of success they brought to the program.
Amigos were both success and longevity as they attended MU all 4 years.
The women's basketball team at my kid's high school just lost the state championship game, going 2/22 from 3. That stuff is universal and contagious.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2025, 07:03:28 PMI would think Tyler and Oso would be viewed analogous to the three amigos. Maybe include Kam.
Of course, that would likely just be from the amount of success they brought to the program.
Amigos were both success and longevity as they attended MU all 4 years.
Tyler was a transfer, so he will have an asterisk
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 03:19:33 PMI. The 50 ish years that I have been aware of sports...
Every baseball season but one has ended in disappointment.
Every NFL season has ended in disappointment.
With 3 exceptions, Every NBA season has ended with my team out.
College basketball, I have been an MU hoops junkie for 40 years, Every season in that time has ended with, wait for it, a loss.
I participated in the coaching of 39 teams in 5 sports. Two championships. Ergo, 37 other seasons.... though to be fair, won a couple of consolations brackets.
So, to me, it is disappointing. It is always a little sad when a team you really like doesn't go as far as you think they should.
This season does not even make a blip on my wailing, gnashing of teeth, rending of garments, blow everything up spectrum.
Think Dukiet, Matt Patricia, 2003 Tigers, 2008 Lions for that. This is just a run of the mill disappointment.
Yes, all well and
good. Shaka needs to stop
the slide and needs to do better.
Like start making his big boy salary. Enough with the treating with kid gloves. He has done well, until this year. Npw is the time to start earning his salary
Quote from: willie warrior on March 22, 2025, 07:24:47 PMYes, all well and
good. Shaka needs to stop
the slide and needs to do better.
Like start making his big boy salary. Enough with the treating with kid gloves. He has done well, until this year. Npw is the time to start earning his salary
You don't think he has earned his salary since he got here?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2025, 03:38:08 PMThe good news is few, if any, here expect Shaka/MU to spend $8-10 million in the portal.
It would just be nice to avail oneself to the option for a player here or there, when needed. Last March, everyone recognized two big potential issues with this year's team - the lack of an interior presence and a backup point guard, especially if SJ remained out.
Shaka consciously chose to ignore those needs and instead handed out his final scholarship to a kid who wouldn't help at all this season. He chose hope. He hoped Ben would develop into a better interior player/defender. He hoped Caedin Hamilton could provide quality backup minutes. He hoped Sean Jones would be back by midseason, if not sooner. He hoped Tre Norman could hold down the fort until then.
As we all know, hope is not a strategy for success. And here we are, out after one game, despite having a trio of seniors equal to the Three Amigos (or so I'm told).
100%
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 03:52:01 PMNo openings after the Clark signing.
From everything I have read, heard from Shaka, been told 4th hand, MU has NIL money. Look at the rumored offers to Kolek to return for his COVID season. Check out his and Kam's reported NIL valuations.
But also look at what Shaka has said about agents and and negotiating. Ergo, I think it can be inferred that MU pays a flat fee.
Shaka said two years ago that he was in contact with a player in the portal a couple of years ago and was taken aback by how much this guy wanted.
And MU clearly pays enough to keep Kam, TKo, Oso from going elsewhere.
Yea this seems accurate when you take into consideration all that has been said.
Do you think this might change in the next few years if Marquette doesn't have an All American caliber returnee?
It would seem odd that Chase Ross would slide into the alpha role next season and make a similar/same amount as Kam or Tyler.
Ditto with Ben and so on and so forth.
Those two are going to be fine players, it's just hard to envision them having an impact as pronounced as Kolek or Kam...
Does that then open the door for bringing in another surefire starter?
I know what Shaka has said, but I would be very hard pressed to see this offseason come and go without any departures.
If there is a departure, that would then likely mean an outside addition.
We shall see soon enough
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 11:04:21 AMAnyway, other than the season ending sooner than I would have like, which is the same complaint that every fanbase but one makes, I enjoyed the season and will now sit back and watch how the offseason shakes out.
Every fanbase but two. The runners up aren't disappointed with when their season ended, but rather how ;)
Ok.
When you do not use the portal and rely totally on recruiting high school players, you have no margin for error at all. Looking at the players Shaka has recruited himself, I am a little nervous.
Ross is certainly a player and Lowery and Parham look to be players. Ben Gold could be a very good player, but not having to play the 5. Still, I count him as a good recruit. That's four hits. Then there is Sean Jones, who we hope is a real player, but, in all honesty, we don't really know that yet. And Owens, though obviously athletic, hasn't really shown himself yet to be the player everyone hopes - but there is still hope. That's two "maybes." Then there is Amadou, Norman, and Hamilton which may well be three misses. Clark we have no idea about except that he is another project.
That feels like a 50 /50 record on recruiting, and maybe that's normal. But, when high school recruiting is your sole source of players, I think you have to do better than 50 / 50. The guys you recruit have to be able to develop quickly and contribute something positive as freshmen. They cannot just be practice players.
Sorry, I forgot that Joplin was a Shaka recruit, so that's another hit. But, I also forgot about Itejere, so that's another miss. Still 50/ 50 on Shaka recruits.
Quote from: rgoode57 on March 23, 2025, 10:13:59 AMSorry, I forgot that Joplin was a Shaka recruit, so that's another hit. But, I also forgot about Itejere, so that's another miss. Still 50/ 50 on Shaka recruits.
Jop signed with Texas. I view him like a transfer. He was not recruited to Marquette.
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 23, 2025, 10:22:13 AMJop signed with Texas. I view him like a transfer. He was not recruited to Marquette.
Since when do recruits choose a school to go to first rather than a coach they want to play for? He was a Shaka recruit and would have probably followed Shaka to any school he ended up at after leaving Texas. Viewing Jop "like a transfer" does not make any sense to me.
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2025, 11:04:21 AMMU just had the most wins in a 4 year span since the McGuire era. One day, Kam, Stevie, and Jop will be spoken of with the same reverence as the three amigos. More tournament would be welcome, of course, but the same can be said of that now sepia tinted era.
I'm with you on this one, Tower (despite Mr. Ball's objection), and I've thought about the comparisons as the season went on. There were a lot of similarities, particularly as relates to their senior seasons. Good start, top ten rankings, a bit of tailing off as the season wound down, a Senior Day bitter OT loss to a despised NY rival, and a round of 64 loss to a
higher-seeded team from out West.
It was tough to see Stevie and Kam go out with such suboptimal performances. Jolp ended with the same highs and lows we've come to expect from him. They weren't perfect, but they worked their asses off. Farewell, class of 2025, and thanks.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on March 23, 2025, 10:44:40 AMI'm with you on this one, Tower (despite Mr. Ball's objection), and I've thought about the comparisons as the season went on. There were a lot of similarities, particularly as relates to their senior seasons. Good start, top ten rankings, a bit of tailing off as the season wound down, a Senior Day bitter OT loss to a despised NY rival, and a round of 64 loss to a
higher-seeded team from out West.
It was tough to see Stevie and Kam go out with such suboptimal performances. Jolp ended with the same highs and lows we've come to expect from him. They weren't perfect, but they worked their asses off. Farewell, class of 2025, and thanks.
Nice post, although I think "a bit of tailing off..." is an understatement. The SJU loss really stung.
My wife and I watched the end of the NM game very closely even after a W was simply not possible. Why? Just to see the seniors for a few more minutes in their last moments in Marquette uniforms.
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 23, 2025, 10:22:13 AMJop signed with Texas. I view him like a transfer. He was not recruited to Marquette.
Oh, come on.
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 23, 2025, 10:22:13 AMJop signed with Texas. I view him like a transfer. He was not recruited to Marquette.
Yes he was. he came with Shaka to Marquette.
I saw that according to Shot Quality, we should've won the New Mexico game. The same was the case for NMD, at St John's, at Creighton, & St John's at home (at a minimum).
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas, but if we win those 4 games, a 27-6 Marquette team would've been a 3-seed at worst and Friday's performance would've had us playing another game.
What this tells me is despite the shooting regression from Kam & Jop, the offense was working to get the looks we needed to win games. If those two shoot their career averages coming into the season from 3, we would've made 24 more shots from deep, improved our 3PFG% from 32.6% (#235) to 35.0% (#109). Our eFG% would improve from 52.0% (#116) to 53.7% (#61).
Nevada's system works, we just need our leading shooters to not regress next year. DeAndre Haynes has turned Zavier Simpson, Ant Cowan, Tyler Kolek, and Kam Jones into studs. He can do the same with the guys we'll have going forward. There's still a bright future here, even if it doesn't feel like it today.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2025, 12:45:26 PMI saw that according to Shot Quality, we should've won the New Mexico game. The same was the case for NMD, at St John's, at Creighton, & St John's at home (at a minimum).
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas, but if we win those 4 games, a 27-6 Marquette team would've been a 3-seed at worst and Friday's performance would've had us playing another game.
What this tells me is despite the shooting regression from Kam & Jop, the offense was working to get the looks we needed to win games. If those two shoot their career averages coming into the season from 3, we would've made 24 more shots from deep, improved our 3PFG% from 32.6% (#235) to 35.0% (#109). Our eFG% would improve from 52.0% (#116) to 53.7% (#61).
Nevada's system works, we just need our leading shooters to not regress next year. DeAndre Haynes has turned Zavier Simpson, Ant Cowan, Tyler Kolek, and Kam Jones into studs. He can do the same with the guys we'll have going forward. There's still a bright future here, even if it doesn't feel like it today.
I saw that as well. I vaguely understand shot quality stats so bear with me. Are we scoring higher in their metrics because we're getting our own good looks or is it because defenses allow us good looks because we're not a good shooting team?
We should've won had we hit open looks.
Hang the banner.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2025, 12:45:26 PMI saw that according to Shot Quality, we should've won the New Mexico game. The same was the case for NMD, at St John's, at Creighton, & St John's at home (at a minimum).
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas, but if we win those 4 games, a 27-6 Marquette team would've been a 3-seed at worst and Friday's performance would've had us playing another game.
What this tells me is despite the shooting regression from Kam & Jop, the offense was working to get the looks we needed to win games. If those two shoot their career averages coming into the season from 3, we would've made 24 more shots from deep, improved our 3PFG% from 32.6% (#235) to 35.0% (#109). Our eFG% would improve from 52.0% (#116) to 53.7% (#61).
Nevada's system works, we just need our leading shooters to not regress next year. DeAndre Haynes has turned Zavier Simpson, Ant Cowan, Tyler Kolek, and Kam Jones into studs. He can do the same with the guys we'll have going forward. There's still a bright future here, even if it doesn't feel like it today.
When you suck at shooting the basketball you're going to lose several games you should win. The analytics say threes over twos all day long. Just look at the Boston Celtics approach to winning games. They have shooters that support the concept. The Golden Eagles simply don't have the accuracy from deep. Therefore, the strategy is flawed. If you build a philosophy around the three point line, get some damn players that can deliver on it!
Quote from: bradforster on March 23, 2025, 12:58:50 PMWhen you suck at shooting the basketball you're going to lose several games you should win. The analytics say threes over twos all day long. Just look at the Boston Celtics approach to winning games. They have shooters that support the concept. The Golden Eagles simply don't have the accuracy from deep. Therefore, the strategy is flawed. If you build a philosophy around the three point line, get some damn players that can deliver on it!
Also NBA playoffs are best of 7 series which allows more room for variance. 1-and-done tournament style isn't kind to high variance styles.
Quote from: WolfganghisKhan on March 23, 2025, 01:03:53 PMAlso NBA playoffs are best of 7 series which allows more room for variance. 1-and-done tournament style isn't kind to high variance styles.
Agreed, but if you build a team that doesn't crash the boards and is lacking on the interior, you better be able to shoot. Of course the margin for error decreases, but that's the game Shaka has chosen to play.
Quote from: rgoode57 on March 23, 2025, 10:13:59 AMSorry, I forgot that Joplin was a Shaka recruit, so that's another hit. But, I also forgot about Itejere, so that's another miss. Still 50/ 50 on Shaka recruits.
Also forgot Emarion Ellis.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 23, 2025, 12:28:22 PMYes he was. he came with Shaka to Marquette.
He was given a release from Texas. He signed with Texas. Shaka may have encouraged Jop to follow him, but he originally recruited him to Texas.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2025, 12:45:26 PMI saw that according to Shot Quality, we should've won the New Mexico game. The same was the case for NMD, at St John's, at Creighton, & St John's at home (at a minimum).
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas, but if we win those 4 games, a 27-6 Marquette team would've been a 3-seed at worst and Friday's performance would've had us playing another game.
What this tells me is despite the shooting regression from Kam & Jop, the offense was working to get the looks we needed to win games. If those two shoot their career averages coming into the season from 3, we would've made 24 more shots from deep, improved our 3PFG% from 32.6% (#235) to 35.0% (#109). Our eFG% would improve from 52.0% (#116) to 53.7% (#61).
Nevada's system works, we just need our leading shooters to not regress next year. DeAndre Haynes has turned Zavier Simpson, Ant Cowan, Tyler Kolek, and Kam Jones into studs. He can do the same with the guys we'll have going forward. There's still a bright future here, even if it doesn't feel like it today.
Yes, the offense got the looks it is designed to. MU'S best shooters did not make them at their historical averages. And, MU missed a lot of lay ups.
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 23, 2025, 01:19:33 PMHe was given a release from Texas. He signed with Texas. Shaka may have encouraged Jop to follow him, but he originally recruited him to Texas.
If only I could think of another adjective for when a coach encourages a potential player to join their team. Here's a hint, it starts with r and ends with uit
Red suit?
Rotten fruit?
Quote from: bradforster on March 23, 2025, 12:58:50 PMWhen you suck at shooting the basketball you're going to lose several games you should win. The analytics say threes over twos all day long. Just look at the Boston Celtics approach to winning games. They have shooters that support the concept. The Golden Eagles simply don't have the accuracy from deep. Therefore, the strategy is flawed. If you build a philosophy around the three point line, get some damn players that can deliver on it!
Did you read what you quoted? We had those players. Kam was a 38% shooter. Jop 36%. Those are the guys any program would want taking threes. But this year they didn't hit, and I'm pretty sure you can't "get some damn players" in February when the season is 3/4 done and the portal is long since closed.
Quote from: panda2.0 on March 23, 2025, 12:49:07 PMI saw that as well. I vaguely understand shot quality stats so bear with me. Are we scoring higher in their metrics because we're getting our own good looks or is it because defenses allow us good looks because we're not a good shooting team?
Shot quality bases their scores on the looks you get and the players taking them.
So based on who got the shots, whether the defense was allowing it or we were creating it, we would've been expected to score X based on how the game played out.
Again, it's cold comfort at best when the season is over, but our five projected starters (Sean/Chase/Zaide/Royce/Ben) shot 34.1% from deep in their most recent played seasons. Mirror or slightly improve on that and we should be better off offensively, even with a lot of volume scoring lost.
Though I think that relies a lot on Sean being able to create looks for others.
Quote from: WolfganghisKhan on March 23, 2025, 12:53:52 PMWe should've won had we hit open looks.
Hang the banner.
The CoS believes metrics are far superior to eye-ball tests.
The eyeball test says we missed too many open looks and lay ups. Same as the metrics.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2025, 03:15:41 PMShot quality bases their scores on the looks you get and the players taking them.
So based on who got the shots, whether the defense was allowing it or we were creating it, we would've been expected to score X based on how the game played out.
What qualifies as a good look?
What qualifies as which players are better than others.
Here is what I hate about stats. You can manipulate them.
The question that should be asked is what changed between last year and this year that caused a decrease in 3 point percentage.
We lost Kolek and Kam's role changed. He was not getting shot quality he had last year.
Next year, there is no Kam who played very well as a facilitator. Will the players who are supposed to be good 3 point shooters get the looks they had this past year. Hard to say if it will our won't be better next year.
Quote from: tower912 on March 23, 2025, 04:51:53 PMThe eyeball test says we missed too many open looks and lay ups. Same as the metrics.
My eyeballs test said that as the season went on those layups attempts were getting more and more difficult so you can't expect the make percentage to be the same.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2025, 03:15:41 PMShot quality bases their scores on the looks you get and the players taking them.
So based on who got the shots, whether the defense was allowing it or we were creating it, we would've been expected to score X based on how the game played out.
Again, it's cold comfort at best when the season is over, but our five projected starters (Sean/Chase/Zaide/Royce/Ben) shot 34.1% from deep in their most recent played seasons. Mirror or slightly improve on that and we should be better off offensively, even with a lot of volume scoring lost.
Though I think that relies a lot on Sean being able to create looks for others.
I'm not speaking directly to the Marquette sq outliers but overall, I've viewed sq as much more ambiguous than other advanced stat formulas. It's so difficult to quantify that type of defensive activity and can ultimately lead to misinformation.
The eye test constantly told me opponents were leaving the weak side wide open to over help on dribble penetration. A ball reversal would lead to what sq would consider a good look but teams constantly dared us to shoot because they knew we couldn't make it and couldn't attack the rim if we didn't shoot it.
Here's how I look at the shot quality metrics.
Our hitters worked good counts, got a lot of high quality pitches to hit, but either fouled them off or made soft contact resulting in outs.
The approach works, it's just up to the guys to execute. Either they do, or they don't.
In big situations this season, our guys didn't.
We won early because our starters were fresh and they were terrific. Remember that lull that let our opponents back into the game when we went to the bench pretty much every game pre-Big East season? And how our starters would re-establish superiority when they went back in?
As a whole we are slight in size (with a few exceptions), combine that with big minutes early and we seemed to just wear down (including nagging minor injuries) as the season progressed. That was compounded a little by a back-loaded Big East schedule, which made it look worse.
I think the way to combat that moving forward is more size (bulk) and more a playable bench from early on. Not a particularly earth shattering revelation.
I am more than good with Shaka, but we need more muscle to go deep in March.
To gain a little perspective, I've considered a post I made four years ago:
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 27, 2021, 02:02:19 PMWhat the hell...this may age badly, but I'll give it a shot.
I predict that five years from today, the following will be true:
- MU will have finished in the top half of the Big East at least four times. Check.
- MU will have finished top three in the Big East at least twice. Check.
- MU will have played in the BET semi finals at least twice. Check.
- MU will have played in the BET finals at least once. Check.
- MU will have qualified for the NCAA tournament at least three times. Check.
- MU will have won at least three NCAA games. Check.
- MU will have been at least a four seed. Check.
- MU will have been ranked in at least two seasons. Check.
- Most fans will be really happy with Shaka as our coach. Notwithstanding some grumbling, I feel confident marking this as a check.
Overly optimistic. Probably. But we've got this.
Around the end of December, I was
really looking forward to triumphantly reposting this prediction in March, but I've been dreading it for the last few days. What a difference a couple of months make.
But, I am forced to remind myself that Shaka has accomplished every single item that was on this list which I considered quite optimistic at the time. The only one I was even waiting on this year was the first -- which by definition required four years to assess.
There's no sense denying that I'm disappointed by how the season finished. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little apprehensive about next season. But for right now, Shaka has exceeded the expectations I had for him four years ago. I'm absolutely looking forward to the next four.
We Are Marquette!
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 25, 2025, 03:53:41 PMTo gain a little perspective, I've considered a post I made four years ago:
Around the end of December, I was really looking forward to triumphantly reposting this prediction in March, but I've been dreading it for the last few days. What a difference a couple of months make.
But, I am forced to remind myself that Shaka has accomplished every single item that was on this list which I considered quite optimistic at the time. The only one I was even waiting on this year was the first -- which by definition required four years to assess.
There's no sense denying that I'm disappointed by how the season finished. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little apprehensive about next season. But for right now, Shaka has exceeded the expectations I had for him four years ago. I'm absolutely looking forward to the next four.
We Are Marquette!
Excellent post StillAWarrior. I agree that
Shaka Smart (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_Smart) was a great hire for Marquette.
Grading college basketball's 2021 coaching carousel (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/grading-college-basketballs-2021-coaching-carousel-how-hires-fared-at-unc-arizona-indiana-and-more/) – Matt Norlander, CBS Sports – April 30, 2025
Quote Grading 2021's high-major hires
Mark Adams, Texas Tech • Grade: D+
Chris Beard, Texas • Grade: D+
Hubert Davis, North Carolina • Grade: C+
Earl Grant, Boston College • Grade: C-
Ben Johnson, Minnesota • Grade: C-
Tommy Lloyd, Arizona • Grade: B+
Wes Miller, Cincinnati • Grade: C
Porter Moser, Oklahoma • Grade: C+
T.J. Otzelberger, Iowa State • Grade: A-
Micah Shrewsberry, Penn State • Grade: B+
(https://sports.cbsimg.net/fly/images/team-logos/21239.svg)
Shaka Smart, Marquette
When Steve Wojciechowski was fired in 2021, Marquette fans were only asking for a reasonable standard to be met. Bring in a guy who can make the NCAA Tournament just about every year, and keep Marquette in the conversation every few years to compete for a league title. Through four tours in Milwaukee, Smart's done the job — and remember, he quietly dipped out of Texas in order to get this gig. When news broke he was next up at MU, it was a semi-stunner. Smart is 98-41 (.705), has captured two Big East championship trophies, made a Sweet 16 and brought the Golden Eagles back to consistent relevance. Marquette's been ranked for 54 weeks in the past four seasons, amounting to nearly 75% of the time since Smart came on. And he's done it with minimal portal assistance. That dogma will be put to its toughest test yet next season. Grade: B+
Tony Stubblefield, DePaul • Grade: D+
Craig Smith, Utah • Grade: C-
Mike Woodson, Indiana • Grade: C+
Men's Basketball Head Coach Salaries 2024-25 (https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach) – SportsData.USAtoday – March 13, 2025
Quote1 • Bill Self • Kansas • $8,803,800* • Big 12
2 • John Calipari • Arkansas • $8,000,000* • SEC
3 • Dan Hurley • UConn • $7,775,000 • Big East
4 • Tom Izzo • Michigan State • $6,196,879* • Big 10
5 • Mick Cronin • UCLA • $6,100,000* • Big 10
6 • Bruce Pearl • Auburn • $5,958,852 • SEC
7 • Rick Barnes • Tennessee • $5,800,000 • SEC
8 • Scott Drew • Baylor • $5,410,061 • Big 12
9 • Tommy Lloyd • Arizona • $5,250,000 • Big 12 ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: B+
10 • Nate Oats • Alabama • $5,018,045 • SEC
11 • Mark Pope • Kentucky • $5,000,000* • SEC
12 • Chris Beard • Ole Miss • $5,000,000* • SEC
13 • Matt Painter • Purdue • $4,850,000* • Big 10
14 • Brad Underwood • Illinois • $4,800,000* • Big 10
15 • Fred Hoiberg • Nebraska • $4,750,000* • Big 10
16 • Kelvin Sampson • Houston • $4,604,000 • Big 12
17 • Buzz Williams • Texas A&M • $4,600,000 • SEC
18 • Chris Jans • Mississippi State • $4,200,000* • SEC
19 • Mike Woodson • Indiana • $4,200,000* • Big 10 ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: C+
20 • Jamie Dixon • TCU • $4,106,441 • Big 12
21 • Dennis Gates • Missouri • $4,100,000 • SEC
22 • Kevin Willard • Maryland • $4,100,000 • Big 10
23 • Dana Altman • Oregon • $4,007,000* • Big 10
24 • Grant McCasland • Texas Tech • $3,900,000 • Big 12
25 • Greg Gard • Wisconsin • $3,875,375 • Big 10
26 • Steve Pikiell • Rutgers • $3,800,000 • Big 10
27 • Lamont Paris • South Carolina • $3,750,000 •SEC
28 • Hubert Davis • North Carolina • $3,750,000 • ACC ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: C+
29 • Jerome Tang • Kansas State • $3,700,000* • Big 12
30 • Kevin Keatts • North Carolina State • $3,668,265* • ACC
31 • Danny Sprinkle • Washington • $3,650,029* • Big 10
32 • Dusty May • Michigan • $3,625,000* • Big 10
33 • Mike White • Georgia • $3,610,000 • SEC
34 • Todd Golden • Florida • $3,600,000* • SEC
35 • Jeff Capel • Pittsburgh • $3,590,613 • ACC
36 • Bobby Hurley • Arizona State • $3,536,000* • Big 12
37 • Brad Brownell • Clemson • $3,505,200 • ACC
38 • T.J. Otzelberger • Iowa State • $3,500,000* • Big 12 ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: A-
39 • Mike Rhoades • Penn State • $3,500,000* • Big 10[/b]
40 • Fran McCaffery • Iowa • $3,402,000 • Big 10
41 • Chris Collins • Northwestern • $3,283,348 • Big 10
42 • Porter Moser • Oklahoma • $3,200,000* • SEC ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: C+
43 • Steve Forbesb • Wake Forest • $3,113,433 • ACC
44 • Shaka Smart • Marquette • $3,040,784 • Big East ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: B+
45 • Rodney Terry • Texas • $3,001,500 • SEC
46 • Greg McDermott • Creighton • $2,939,696 • Big East
47 • Jim Larranaga • Miami (FL) • $2,904,041* • ACC
48 • Darian DeVries • West Virginia • $2,900,000* • Big 12
49 • Mark Few • Gonzaga • $2,812,394 • WCC
50 • Matt McMahon • LSU • $2,805,000 • SEC
51 • Mark Madsen • California • $2,800,000 • ACC
52 • Mike Young • Virginia Tech • $2,750,000 • ACC
53 • Wes Miller • Cincinnati • $2,600,000 • Big 12 ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: C
54 • Tad Boyle • Colorado • $2,503,500 • Big 12
55 • Jake Diebler • Ohio State • $2,500,000 • Big 10
56 • Brian Dutcher • San Diego State • $2,421,640 • MWC
57 • Steve Lutz • Oklahoma State • $2,400,000* • Big 12
58 • Pat Kelsey • Louisville • $2,367,418* • ACC
59 • Craig Smith • Utah • $2,300,000* • Big 12 ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: C-
60 • Leonard Hamilton • Florida State • $2,250,000* • ACC
61 • Damon Stoudamire • Georgia Tech • $2,200,000 • ACC
62 • Earl Grant • Boston College • $2,169,331 • ACC ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: C-
63 • Ben Johnson • Minnesota • $2,079,315*• Big 10 ==> Matt Norlander's Grade: C-
64 • Johnny Dawkins • UCF • $2,000,000* • Big 12
65 • Ryan Odom • VCU • $1,812,375 • A10
66 • Jon Scheyer • Duke • $1,711,114* • ACC
67 • Steve Alford • Nevada • $1,553,500* • MWC
68 • Bryce Drew • Grand Canyon • $1,374,363 • WAC
69 • Ron Sanchez • Virginia • $1,350,000* • ACC
70 • Randy Bennett • Saint Mary's • $1,340,319 • WCC
71 • Kyle Neptune • Villanova • $1,254,491* • Big East
72 • Leon Rice • Boise State • $1,000,000* • MWC
73 • Jerrod Calhoun • Utah State • $1,000,000* • MWC
Marquette would be well-advised to push Shaka Smart's salary further up the Head Coach Salary Chart, as he will likely become a major target for bigger fish after another successful season or two at MU. Smart is probably MU's biggest asset, and should be treated accordingly.
Shaka Smart to become $22 million man (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12866293/texas-regents-set-approve-22-million-contract-shaka-smart) Associated Press – May 11, 2015
QuoteUniversity of Texas System regents are set to approve new men's basketball coach Shaka Smart's nearly $22 million contract, with most of that money guaranteed. Smart is set to get a seven-year contract, with six years of guaranteed salary starting at $2.8 million in the first year and rising to $3.3 million by Year 6. The contract includes an optional seventh year at $3.4 million. The deal also includes a $500,000 payment to VCU.
Shaka's salary, Wojo's buyout and other notes from Marquette's 2023 tax filings (https://painttouches.com/2024/05/28/shaka-smart-salary-wojos-buyout-and-other-notes-from-marquettes-2023-tax-filings/) – Andrei Greska, Paint Touches – May 28, 2024
QuoteShaka Smart has a base pay of $2,791,853 with bonuses of $154,000, for a total of just under $3million at $2,945,853. That's up over 37% compared to 2022.
In 2023, 2 years after his firing, Marquette paid Wojo $4.6M to not coach the team, which means that over the last 2 years, MU paid him over $10M to leave. That is a huge number and part of why I didn't think a change could be made after the 2021 season.
Shaka Smart, Marquette – Salary History 2011-2025 (https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/2711) – USA Today – March 13, 2025
QuoteYear • School • Total Pay
2025 • Marquette • $3,040,784
2024 • Marquette • $2,217,259
2023 • Marquette • - ? -
2022 • Marquette • - ? -
2021 • Texas • $3,067,479
2020 • Texas • $3,300,989
2019 • Texas • $3,200,000
2018 • Texas • $3,100,000
2017 • Texas • $2,900,000
2016 • Texas • $2,805,000
2015 • VCU • $1,578,500
2014 • VCU • $1,530,000
2013 • VCU • $1,380,000
2012 • VCU • $1,210,000
2011 • VCU • $424,000
Why did Shaka Smart leave Texas? How former Longhorns coach came to Marquette basketball to the Sweet 16 (https://eu.statesman.com/story/sports/college/longhorns/2024/03/29/shaka-smart-texas-marquette-basketball-march-madness-golden-eagles-record-march-madness-sweet-16/73112898007/) – John Leuzzi, USA Today Network – March 29, 2024
Tl;dr
Relieved to hear that FF believes Shaka was a good hire for Marquette. I was sweating that one out.
He'll next give Gonzaga advice on how to keep the even more poorly compensated Mark Few from leaving Spokane for greener pastures.
Quote from: MU82 on May 03, 2025, 11:05:40 AMRelieved to hear that FF believes Shaka was a good hire for Marquette. I was sweating that one out.
He'll next give Gonzaga advice on how to keep the even more poorly compensated Mark Few from leaving Spokane for greener pastures.
I keep hoping Rocky will tell us soon that Fieldhouse Flyer is gone forever.
Great hire - disappointing season.