Admittedly, I don't have much understanding of NIL. However, I don't see any of next year's roster being worthy of anything beyond what they've agreed to. The point being, MU's negotiating power is at an all-time high with regards to the returning players including Ross and Gold. In brief, the returning players have little value on the market. This flexibility should provide MU with the resources to rebuild quickly.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 14, 2025, 10:46:01 PMAdmittedly, I don't have much understanding of NIL.
Probably could have stopped there.
Shaka isn't going to go to the route you are suggesting. HS recruiting and development are the corner stones.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 14, 2025, 10:58:30 PMProbably could have stopped there.
Shaka isn't going to go to the route you are suggesting. HS recruiting and development are the corner stones.
Would those corner stones be what has led to our huge success this year as evidenced by the poor performance and lack of 3 point shooter and underneath bangers?
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 14, 2025, 10:46:01 PMAdmittedly, I don't have much understanding of NIL. However, I don't see any of next year's roster being worthy of anything beyond what they've agreed to. The point being, MU's negotiating power is at an all-time high with regards to the returning players including Ross and Gold. In brief, the returning players have little value on the market. This flexibility should provide MU with the resources to rebuild quickly.
There's an entire thread on an entire article about Shaka and MU not negotiating NIL deals.
I don't think there's much of a market for anyone on the existing roster. If anyone joins the portal, they won't be playing at a higher level than MU.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 15, 2025, 07:06:27 AMI don't think there's much of a market for anyone on the existing roster. If anyone joins the portal, they won't be playing at a higher level than MU.
Chase Ross would be a very popular player on the transfer market. A two year Zaide and three year Royce as well.
Quote from: The Sultan on March 15, 2025, 07:09:01 AMChase Ross would be a very popular player on the transfer market. A two year Zaide and three year Royce as well.
Yeah, when I read the OP those were the three I immediately pegged as our top valued players currently. IMO, Royce may be a little tricky to hang on to but I think our program knows his value.
A buddy of mine who is a big ncaab junky, and not a big MU fan (UNC), said to me when I met up with him at the Maryland game that Royce Parham would fetch a lot in NIL at the end of the season and could transfer.
It really caught me by surprise because it was so early in the season that my first thought was "why would he mention Royce and not Damarius?"
So I asked, and he said that teams like UNC who spend a lot in the portal really value stretch 4s that can shoot, those guys are much harder to find than prolific guards.
He was right about Parham fetching a lot in NIL, but he was wrong that he would leave.
Marquette will take care of Royce, and all of its other guys, and keep them in Milwaukee.
Someone that has a big future roll will leave at some point and scoop will meltdown, but with the minutes availability and the opportunity to grab a key roll in a Shaka led team- the way he sticks with his guys- I find it hard to believe that someone of big importance would leave this offseason.
There would have to be a perceived logjam, which would mean Marquette would have to be super stacked with talent, so sign me up for that
Look, I understand that people aren't happy with Marquette being projected as a 7/8 seed. But transfers aren't always the panacea people think they are.
Look at Kansas and UConn. Both took plenty of transfers, yet they're projected as *checks notes* a 7 and 8 seed.
Marquette is going to be a team that goes through peaks and valleys. 2-3 years from now will be the next peak, IMO.
Wisconsin won the lottery in the portal. Sky was falling when Hepburn and Storr left, and they replaced him with Tonje who is breaking season-single scoring records. It doesn't happen every where and every time, but players are replaceable.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 15, 2025, 08:31:02 AMWisconsin won the lottery in the portal. Sky was falling when Hepburn and Storr left, and they replaced him with Tonje who is breaking season-single scoring records. It doesn't happen every where and every time, but players are replaceable.
Hitting the lottery is right. A decent, not great player in the Mountain West two years ago, missed almost the entire season last year at Missouri due to injury, and was planning to transfer to New Mexico until the 11th hour switch to Wisconsin.
But luck, such as unexpected development, is part of college basketball. Just like two years ago, when Marquette saw Tyler, Kam, Oso, and O-Max all make huge leaps in the same off-season.
Stevie and Jop never made that next big leap. Chase and Ben haven't made the big leap either, and perhaps they never do.
That's the ebbs and flows of college basketball.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 15, 2025, 08:11:52 AMLook, I understand that people aren't happy with Marquette being projected as a 7/8 seed. But transfers aren't always the panacea people think they are.
Look at Kansas and UConn. Both took plenty of transfers, yet they're projected as *checks notes* a 7 and 8 seed.
Marquette is going to be a team that goes through peaks and valleys. 2-3 years from now will be the next peak, IMO.
Agreed. But I do think Shaka is too competitive not to get a transfer if he felt there was a big need.
I really agree with your last paragraph. As long as the peaks are fairly high and the valleys are still competitive I think the fan base and most importantly Shaka will be happy. If NIL were to become a barrier and Shaka sees players he is developing going out the door every year he will not be happy and ultimately leave. The fist several years the guys bought in. But the trajectory was up. If this team hits a little adversity in the next couple years hopefully the culture wins out again and people stay and develop. TBD. I trust Shaka will get it done.
I agree Shooter. Shaka will take a transfer if they fit the culture and the roster needs.
But he'll be very selective. Bag chasers like AJ Storr and Coleman Hawkins won't be entertained.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 14, 2025, 10:46:01 PMAdmittedly, I don't have much understanding of NIL. However, I don't see any of next year's roster being worthy of anything beyond what they've agreed to. The point being, MU's negotiating power is at an all-time high with regards to the returning players including Ross and Gold. In brief, the returning players have little value on the market. This flexibility should provide MU with the resources to rebuild quickly.
Dopey.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 15, 2025, 08:11:52 AMLook, I understand that people aren't happy with Marquette being projected as a 7/8 seed. But transfers aren't always the panacea people think they are.
Look at Kansas and UConn. Both took plenty of transfers, yet they're projected as *checks notes* a 7 and 8 seed.
Yep.
https://www.thebiglead.com/shaka-smart-s-latest-recruiting-pitch-will-undoubtedly-backfire not sure if this was posted
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 15, 2025, 08:27:50 PMhttps://www.thebiglead.com/shaka-smart-s-latest-recruiting-pitch-will-undoubtedly-backfire not sure if this was posted
It was.
Patino and all the other Beast schools will be going the transfer route. Shaka will not. Will see who has more success.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 16, 2025, 06:50:42 AMPatino and all the other Beast schools will be going the transfer route. Shaka will not. Will see who has more success.
They have to be right on who they're choosing every year. Recruiting to a certain extent is an art and I'm guessing they'll make some misses (eg. A.J. Storrs). Just like Shaka, they'll win some and lose some.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 16, 2025, 06:50:42 AMPatino and all the other Beast schools will be going the transfer route. Shaka will not. Will see who has more success.
Need a time frame here. Shaka's approach the is old school, pre immediate transfer route. Judging success without a time frame is effectively tilting the table towards the portal route.
Also, drawing conclusions from only one team/coach vs. many teams/coaches is not, to put it very mildly, a valid study. It's all we have to go by, but that does not make the result(s) definitive.
It's just as well that other coaches are not interested in the same approach as Shaka as there are a limited number of high-level HS recruits who are attracted to Shaka's way of doing things. So yes, "we will see who has more success."
But the advantages and disadvantages of the different methods will never be conclusive due to the extremely limited of study cases for Shaka's way.
I remember when Bo Ryan recruited to a system and scoopers were alternating between derision and jealousy. This feels a lot like a modern argument about recruiting guys to a system. And predicting that eventually the system will collapse. Just directed inwardly instead of outwardly.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 15, 2025, 09:54:37 AMI agree Shooter. Shaka will take a transfer if they fit the culture and the roster needs.
But he'll be very selective. Bag chasers like AJ Storr and Coleman Hawkins won't be entertained.
Ah yes. NIL, bag chasers, disgruntled players on playing time, athlete agents to deal with...all part of college basketball landscape, which likely will not change. As Tower would say "Saddle up or die"
Didn't Hurley say that half his roster is looking at the portal? That would be unsettling
Quote from: WellsstreetWanderer on March 16, 2025, 11:34:39 AMDidn't Hurley say that half his roster is looking at the portal? That would be unsettling
Also, Karaban and McNeeley will likely leave for the NBA, and Diarra and Sampson are graduating.
But he has a highly rated class coming in, and he's (mostly) used the portal well in the past, so we'll see.
We need a scoop NIL fund. $1/post. All proceeds go towards an aircraft carrier.
It's going to be very frustrating watching other teams who take transfers keep outshining us. Time will tell until Shaka's hand gets forced or he gets forced out of town.
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 16, 2025, 12:47:10 PMIt's going to be very frustrating watching other teams who take transfers keep outshining us. Time will tell until Shaka's hand gets forced or he gets forced out of town.
Not exactly analogous but for quite some time Coach K preached he would not recruit kids that were one and done. I may be wrong but I think he mentioned something about not "renting" players. He pivoted from that mantra pretty quickly as the college basketball landscape changed.
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 16, 2025, 12:47:10 PMIt's going to be very frustrating watching other teams who take transfers keep outshining us. Time will tell until Shaka's hand gets forced or he gets forced out of town.
Or he may just keep on being successful.
Quote from: DoctorV on March 15, 2025, 08:05:49 AMA buddy of mine who is a big ncaab junky, and not a big MU fan (UNC), said to me when I met up with him at the Maryland game that Royce Parham would fetch a lot in NIL at the end of the season and could transfer.
It really caught me by surprise because it was so early in the season that my first thought was "why would he mention Royce and not Damarius?"
So I asked, and he said that teams like UNC who spend a lot in the portal really value stretch 4s that can shoot, those guys are much harder to find than prolific guards.
He was right about Parham fetching a lot in NIL, but he was wrong that he would leave.
Marquette will take care of Royce, and all of its other guys, and keep them in Milwaukee.
Someone that has a big future roll will leave at some point and scoop will meltdown, but with the minutes availability and the opportunity to grab a key roll in a Shaka led team- the way he sticks with his guys- I find it hard to believe that someone of big importance would leave this offseason.
There would have to be a perceived logjam, which would mean Marquette would have to be super stacked with talent, so sign me up for that
With the article that came out with Shaka, I don't think players from marquette being bought out by othe programs will be a shocking thing.
Hopefully they all really have bought in to the program.
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 16, 2025, 12:47:10 PMIt's going to be very frustrating watching other teams who take transfers keep outshining us. Time will tell until Shaka's hand gets forced or he gets forced out of town.
😂
Quote from: #UnleashSean on March 16, 2025, 01:14:18 PMWith the article that came out with Shaka, I don't think players from marquette being bought out by othe programs will be a shocking thing.
Hopefully they all really have bought in to the program.
Why hasn't it happened yet?
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 16, 2025, 12:47:10 PMIt's going to be very frustrating watching other teams who take transfers keep outshining us. Time will tell until Shaka's hand gets forced or he gets forced out of town.
There are more programs taking on transfers that we are ahead of, than programs taking on transfers that we are behind...by triple digits.
It's going to be very frustrating watching other teams who take transfers keep outshining us. Time will tell until Shaka's hand gets forced or he gets forced out of town.
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 16, 2025, 07:57:25 PMIt's going to be very frustrating watching other teams who take transfers keep outshining us. Time will tell until Shaka's hand gets forced or he gets forced out of town.
Why do you keep saying this?
Why can't you at least mention that he could keep succeeding doing it this way?
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 16, 2025, 07:57:25 PMIt's going to be very frustrating watching other teams who take transfers keep outshining us. Time will tell until Shaka's hand gets forced or he gets forced out of town.
😂
Quote from: The Sultan on March 16, 2025, 08:11:31 PMWhy do you keep saying this?
Why can't you at least mention that he could keep succeeding doing it this way?
Man, our fanbase sucks. Nothing but worrying about next season or constant complaints over what Shaka is doing despite success.
We deserve a Georgetown or DePaul run of irrelevance.
Quote from: RJax55 on March 16, 2025, 08:24:52 PMMan, our fanbase sucks. Nothing but worrying about next season or constant complaints over what Shaka is doing despite success.
We deserve a Georgetown or DePaul run of irrelevance.
I tell you I'm concerned about 2028
Quote from: RJax55 on March 16, 2025, 08:24:52 PMMan, our fanbase sucks. Nothing but worrying about next season or constant complaints over what Shaka is doing despite success.
We deserve a Georgetown or DePaul run of irrelevance.
It is a fascinating dynamic.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 16, 2025, 01:30:37 PMWhy hasn't it happened yet?
We could go the family route and say they all collectively love it here. And I hope that's right. But only time will tell.
As for why it hasn't happened yet? Openly luring players with bags of cash is very very new. Like systems not being setup at all new. Outside of that, the most likely candidates last year were Kam, Ben, Stevie, and Ross.
Kam stays home and becomes the super hero. He probably wasn't leaving a for sure thing to play elsewhere for a year.
Ben has legal issues from NIL. Not sure the limits, but it's been talked about.
Stevie: another guy leaving a sure thing for a year. He probably doesn't lure anywhere near the money Kam or Ben would be.
Ross: might love it here? I have no reasons why Ross wouldn't chase after a bag of cash other than he enjoys being here.
Quote from: RJax55 on March 16, 2025, 08:24:52 PMMan, our fanbase sucks. Nothing but worrying about next season or constant complaints over what Shaka is doing despite success.
We deserve a Georgetown or DePaul run of irrelevance.
Did you slumber for 7 years or something?
Hope the bubble doesn't burst on MU in a bad way. I want to see the same guys next year.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on March 16, 2025, 09:57:32 PMDid you slumber for 7 years or something?
DePaul or Georgetown would kill for the Wojo years right now.
But, you proved my point. After 7 years of Wojo, would you think people would have a greater appreciation for what Shaka has accomplished. But, here we are on Selection Sundays of all days, I'm reading post after post complaining about his approach.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 14, 2025, 10:46:01 PMAdmittedly, I don't have much understanding of NIL. However, I don't see any of next year's roster being worthy of anything beyond what they've agreed to. The point being, MU's negotiating power is at an all-time high with regards to the returning players including Ross and Gold. In brief, the returning players have little value on the market. This flexibility should provide MU with the resources to rebuild quickly.
Sorry to go back to the original post, but it implies something that I've not really heard about with NIL. We talk about how players might chase a bag to earn more money via NIL by transferring, and we talk about players that transfer (most often down) to earn more playing time.
I've not read, though, about a player's NIL package changing/decreasing because their play has not been "worthy of anything beyond what they've agreed to." I know that there is really only limited reliable information about any player's NIL deal, but does anyone have a sense that a package is year-to-year, such that a package might be decreased for a lack of performance? I totally get how a guy could earn more, but I expect/hope that a school/collection/major donor would NOT decrease someone's NIL package because they didn't live up to "expected value." Then again, perhaps I'm being naive in not wanting to acknowledge what a business transaction NIL actually is.
Quote from: mug644 on March 17, 2025, 10:29:16 AMSorry to go back to the original post, but it implies something that I've not really heard about with NIL. We talk about how players might chase a bag to earn more money via NIL by transferring, and we talk about players that transfer (most often down) to earn more playing time.
I've not read, though, about a player's NIL package changing/decreasing because their play has not been "worthy of anything beyond what they've agreed to." I know that there is really only limited reliable information about any player's NIL deal, but does anyone have a sense that a package is year-to-year, such that a package might be decreased for a lack of performance? I totally get how a guy could earn more, but I expect/hope that a school/collection/major donor would NOT decrease someone's NIL package because they didn't live up to "expected value." Then again, perhaps I'm being naive in not wanting to acknowledge what a business transaction NIL actually is.
I would bet we can get a decent indication based on AJ Storrs next destination.
Quote from: WellsstreetWanderer on March 16, 2025, 11:34:39 AMDidn't Hurley say that half his roster is looking at the portal? That would be unsettling
He says a lot of things. One could argue, he says too much, too often.
Quote from: WarriorFan on March 16, 2025, 12:44:52 PMWe need a scoop NIL fund. $1/post. All proceeds go towards an aircraft carrier.
1.7m posts over 18 years .. so just over $100k per year.
That's Polonowski money.