"I have great relationships with other commissioners, great respect for [ACC commissioner] Jim Phillips in particular," Ackerman continued. "I would say, I can't really comment on it, but there's been some conversations about what we could all be doing together, again, not only to secure our own futures, but to make sure that college basketball stays strong and relevant as football interests continue to dominate much of the headlines and much of the bandwidth of the leagues that we consider peer conferences."
https://awfulannouncing.com/college-basketball/big-east-commissioner-acc-merger.html
There isn't a whole lot to comment on since specifics aren't given, but this is a pathetic comment by Val if you ask me:
"When you've got two Hall of Famers opining about, not only the history of college basketball but the future of college basketball, you have to listen."
I'm sure Coach K really had our best interests in mind when he made that comment ::)
I'd have absolutely no interest in a full merger. It'd be terrible for us. It'd immediately turn into separate classes of members. "Of course Duke needs to continue playing their two Saturday night games against UNC, of course they need a game at the Garden every year, etc." Meanwhile we would play Duke at home once every 3 or 4 years and be stuck with a home slate filled with the dregs of the ACC and DePaul versus what we have now.
Even in a "scheduling alliance", I'd only have an interest in playing like 4 of their 18 teams maybe. Would much rather continue to build relationships with the Purdues and Iowa States of the world than get hooked up with the ACC. The ACC is disjointed garbage and are desperate as a result.
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 24, 2025, 12:37:59 AMThere isn't a whole lot to comment on since specifics aren't given, but this is a pathetic comment by Val if you ask me:
"When you've got two Hall of Famers opining about, not only the history of college basketball but the future of college basketball, you have to listen."
I'm sure Coach K really had our best interests in mind when he made that comment ::)
I'd have absolutely no interest in a full merger. It'd be terrible for us. It'd immediately turn into separate classes of members. "Of course Duke needs to continue playing their two Saturday night games against UNC, of course they need a game at the Garden every year, etc." Meanwhile we would play Duke at home once every 3 or 4 years and be stuck with a home slate filled with the dregs of the ACC and DePaul versus what we have now.
Even in a "scheduling alliance", I'd only have an interest in playing like 4 of their 18 teams maybe. Would much rather continue to build relationships with the Purdues and Iowa States of the world than get hooked up with the ACC. The ACC is disjointed garbage and are desperate as a result.
Pathetic? She is just reacting to something that was publicly stated. No biggie at all.
And I doubt this has anything to do with an actual merger. A scheduling alliance would be fine.
Yeah, given our positioning in the current iteration of the BE I'm sure we'd be fine - they want us and Uconn playing Dyke and UNC
Also these conversations aren't happening BECAUSE of K and Pitino. They are happening because the two weakest of the P5 conferences are finding ways to align and strengthen themselves. The Big East needs to do this sort of stuff to put them in a good place should there be a breakaway.
Val's earned more respect
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 24, 2025, 12:37:59 AMThere isn't a whole lot to comment on since specifics aren't given, but this is a pathetic comment by Val if you ask me:
"When you've got two Hall of Famers opining about, not only the history of college basketball but the future of college basketball, you have to listen."
I'm sure Coach K really had our best interests in mind when he made that comment ::)
I'd have absolutely no interest in a full merger. It'd be terrible for us. It'd immediately turn into separate classes of members. "Of course Duke needs to continue playing their two Saturday night games against UNC, of course they need a game at the Garden every year, etc." Meanwhile we would play Duke at home once every 3 or 4 years and be stuck with a home slate filled with the dregs of the ACC and DePaul versus what we have now.
Even in a "scheduling alliance", I'd only have an interest in playing like 4 of their 18 teams maybe. Would much rather continue to build relationships with the Purdues and Iowa States of the world than get hooked up with the ACC. The ACC is disjointed garbage and are desperate as a result.
Val's earned more respect than you are giving her.
Quote from: 1SE on February 24, 2025, 04:00:49 AMYeah, given our positioning in the current iteration of the BE I'm sure we'd be fine - they want us and Uconn playing Dyke and UNC
Bruh
I think Coach K is a proponent because he knows Duke v UNC is soon to be a non-conference game and only once a year.
As it stands right now, I'm not in favor of this merger but Val would not be doing her job if she isn't looking at all options. I trust Val.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 24, 2025, 03:28:12 AMA scheduling alliance would be fine.
Scheduling alliance worked out great for the Pac-12.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 24, 2025, 08:22:33 AMScheduling alliance worked out great for the Pac-12.
The Pac-12's issues were beyond something that a scheduling alliance could fix.
When we talk ACC i would assume we're talking about these schools:
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Miami (MAYBE)
Notre Dame (MAYBE)
Pittsburgh
SMU
Syracuse
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
Quote from: The Lens on February 24, 2025, 09:08:52 AMWhen we talk ACC i would assume we're talking about these schools:
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Miami (MAYBE)
Notre Dame (MAYBE)
Pittsburgh
SMU
Syracuse
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
How can you have an ACC without Stanford and Cal????
I would hope Val is exploring every avenue to keep the league in a position to survive post-2032. Even if it sounds "out there" I'm glad things are being discussed.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 24, 2025, 09:11:31 AMHow can you have an ACC without Stanford and Cal????
I gave you SMU...don't be so ungrateful.
We can be assured that Coach K is always looking out for the best interests of the Big East. That's why he used MU to get Wojo out of Duke's line of succession discussion.
Not sure the BE should be making decisions based on the advice of the Grecian Formula club.
https://x.com/Ourand_Puck/status/1893657062783012934
Quote from: The Lens on February 24, 2025, 09:36:48 AMI gave you SMU...don't be so ungrateful.
I suppose. I just don't know if I want to live in a world where Cal and BC don't play each year. Might as well take Christmas from us. >:(
I would be in favor of the merger only if the ACC's one condition be that Marquette change their mascot back to Warriors.
Quote from: The Lens on February 24, 2025, 09:08:52 AMWhen we talk ACC i would assume we're talking about these schools:
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Miami (MAYBE)
Notre Dame (MAYBE)
Pittsburgh
SMU
Syracuse
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
The problem with this arrangement is that I don't want to be shackled to mediocre schools long term. We tried that once and it was a mess. Unless we have some sort of veto on adding adding the UABs and South Floridas of the world to fill out a football conference. They bring NOTHING in hoops.
A conference with Duke, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, Villanova, UConn, Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, Georgetown, and St. Johns is a BIG DEAL in college basketball. It's a lot uglier if it also drags along Seton Hall and BC and the California schools.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on February 24, 2025, 11:49:09 AMThe problem with this arrangement is that I don't want to be shackled to mediocre schools long term. We tried that once and it was a mess. Unless we have some sort of veto on adding adding the UABs and South Floridas of the world to fill out a football conference. They bring NOTHING in hoops.
A conference with Duke, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, Villanova, UConn, Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, Georgetown, and St. Johns is a BIG DEAL in college basketball. It's a lot uglier if it also drags along Seton Hall and BC and the California schools.
I think it would be awesome to play Stanford. We could make fun of the losers that could not get into UW-Madison.
I find this so depressing. Big East has a unique identity being basketball only... so many brands have been ruined joining conferences that don't make sense for them.
The Big East makes so much sense for us. I guess I will enjoy it while it lasts.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on February 24, 2025, 01:59:53 PMI find this so depressing. Big East has a unique identity being basketball only... so many brands have been ruined joining conferences that don't make sense for them.
The Big East makes so much sense for us. I guess I will enjoy it while it lasts.
I wouldn't worry about it. She was asked about the merger idea, and this was her response:
"I take very seriously any idea around the future of college basketball, what it means for the Big East, what the Big East should be doing. I'm not sure I can opine right now what that sort of combination would look like. But we've got some related ideas that we're hatching here about alliances, about who we should be working with as we look to secure, not only the future of the Big East, but the future of college basketball."
I would guess that a merger is NOT where this is heading, but a closer relationship? Sure.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 24, 2025, 02:06:05 PM"I take very seriously any idea around the future of college basketball, what it means for the Big East, what the Big East should be doing. I'm not sure I can opine right now what that sort of combination would look like. But we've got some related ideas that we're hatching here about alliances, about who we should be working with as we look to secure, not only the future of the Big East, but the future of college basketball."
Copied this quote and was about to post this very same quote. But saw it was just posted.
I don't see how an actual merger between these two leagues benefits anyone at this point in time. Mainly, too many things would need to transpire for the ACC to reach the point where they need to bolster basketball for their members as a matter of survival.
Perhaps they know where the next wave of realignment will leave them, and losing their College Football Playoff guaranteed eligibility is a fait accompli. That is a huge assumption though, and I don't see it. Though their options for adding may be extremely bleak, they will still most likely be able to keep 8-10 football playing programs together.
As of now, the only thing I can see making sense is a scheduling alliance.
She basically said, "SEC, B1G, and to a lesser extent B12 football are making all of the decisions that come with D1 college athletics. The ACC and us are trying to decide ways to make sure we have some kind of say in this, at least as far as the basketball side of things go." She's not even specifically saying a merger between the two conferences. Just "who we should be working with as we look to secure, not only the future of the Big East, but the future of college basketball."
Wouldn't that be something. Have family that are current students or grads of UNC, WF and NCState.
Quote from: 1SE on February 24, 2025, 04:00:49 AMYeah, given our positioning in the current iteration of the BE I'm sure we'd be fine - they want us and Uconn playing Dyke and UNC
They want St. Johns and UConn playing Duke and UNC. And their backup would be Georgetown and Villanova.
The midwest schools will be tagalongs at best, and left out at worst.
Quote from: The Equalizer on February 24, 2025, 03:22:44 PMThey want St. Johns and UConn playing Duke and UNC. And their backup would be Georgetown and Villanova.
The midwest schools will be tagalongs at best, and left out at worst.
I prefer Saomas:
(https://skinnynotskinny.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/tagalongs11.jpg)
Quote from: The Equalizer on February 24, 2025, 03:22:44 PMThey want St. Johns and UConn playing Duke and UNC. And their backup would be Georgetown and Villanova.
The midwest schools will be tagalongs at best, and left out at worst.
I feel like your sense of college basketball is more than a few years out of date. You think Georgetown is drawing eyeballs?
Quote from: The Equalizer on February 24, 2025, 03:22:44 PMThey want St. Johns and UConn playing Duke and UNC. And their backup would be Georgetown and Villanova.
The midwest schools will be tagalongs at best, and left out at worst.
The BE midwest schools should merge with the Big12orMore and let the ACC have the rest.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 24, 2025, 04:16:24 PMThe BE midwest schools should merge with the Big12orMore and let the ACC have the rest.
That's not happening
When I think about this I think it might be fun if a ACC + Big East super conference had an A an B level and teams could be relegated and promoted like English Soccer leagues. They could have the A league be the top 16 teams and the B league be the bottom 12. It would ensure the teams that want to invest in their programs would be rewarded with a killer schedule(like the glory days of the original 16 team big east) and likely get 8-12 teams in the tourney and the teams that don't want to compete get a good conference and some of the fruits of a Super SUPER LEAGUE.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 24, 2025, 04:54:42 PMThat's not happening
Never say never. The Big XII doesn't have a presence in Wisconsin or Nebraska and Yormark loves his basketball. There's a world in which Marquette and Creighton get Big XII invites.
I don't think anyone beyond that is valuable enough to the Big XII
Quote from: SaveOD238 on February 25, 2025, 06:10:58 AMNever say never. The Big XII doesn't have a presence in Wisconsin or Nebraska and Yormark loves his basketball. There's a world in which Marquette and Creighton get Big XII invites.
I don't think anyone beyond that is valuable enough to the Big XII
Why would the Big XII want to add non-football members?
Quote from: Pakuni on February 25, 2025, 07:17:45 AMWhy would the Big XII want to add non-football members?
This.
The Big XII doesn't even want the back-to-back national champions.
During the first conference realignment years ago, some scoopers and other BE fans on the holyland site smugly laughed at the struggles of FB schools and the Big 12 was looking like an endangered species. The theory was that as a bball only conference, we were in control of our future.
Val is simply doing her job by listening to the ACC and others. With the SEC and Big 10 floating the idea of the top 4 slots in the FB championship being divvied up between their conferences in the future, is it not feasible that they will also suggest preferential seeding in the tourney?
Marquette and/or the BE is not in a great bargaining position in my opinion.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 25, 2025, 07:17:45 AMWhy would the Big XII want to add non-football members?
expanding their geographic reach. They have looked at St. John's for the NYC market and playing at MSG.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 24, 2025, 04:10:51 AMAlso these conversations aren't happening BECAUSE of K and Pitino. They are happening because the two weakest of the P5 conferences are finding ways to align and strengthen themselves. The Big East needs to do this sort of stuff to put them in a good place should there be a breakaway.
I think Sultan is right. The mega conferences are going to freeze everyone else out.
Feel the mega conferences will do what is best for them.
Which in and of itself is not bad.
But feel it is bad for the many many left out and more importantly bad for America.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 24, 2025, 03:32:44 PMI feel like your sense of college basketball is more than a few years out of date. You think Georgetown is drawing eyeballs?
Georgetown becomes a story as soon as they have any success. When Ewing led the Hoyas to the 2020 BET title, SportsCenter was falling all over itself to cover it. A lot of media decisions are made by old people. Like to cover the Cowboys who hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 30 years.
If I'm ranking national draw of Big East teams (assuming each team would be Top 10 in the AP...ie relevant) I would guess it would go:
1) UConn
2) Georgetown
3) St. John's
4) Villanova
5) Marquette
6) Creighton
7) PC
8) Xavier
9) DePaul (you could argue me higher)
10) Hall
11) Butler
Quote from: The Lens on February 25, 2025, 01:25:00 PMGeorgetown becomes a story as soon as they have any success. When Ewing led the Hoyas to the 2020 BET title, SportsCenter was falling all over itself to cover it. A lot of media decisions are made by old people. Like to cover the Cowboys who hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 30 years.
If I'm ranking national draw of Big East teams (assuming each team would be Top 10 in the AP...ie relevant) I would guess it would go:
1) UConn
2) Georgetown
3) St. John's
4) Villanova
5) Marquette
9) Creighton
8) PC
6) Xavier
7) DePaul
10) Hall
11) Butler
I put my guesses in your lineup. Creighton/Omaha? Nope. PC is in UCONN's shadow. Xavier is difficult to mark down. They've had a good program for a long time. And DP? Look at how Chicago suddenly became a bball town when Loyola was putting on a show in the tourney. If anything, I might switch DP and X., despite DP reeking for decades.
Edit: I am looking at how things might play out in the near future rather than the "here and now".
0% chance of ever happening but it's fun for me to pretend. Sorry DePaul, Butler, and Seton Hall.
Midwest Division
1) Marquette
2) Creighton
3) Notre Dame
4) Louisville
5) Xavier
Northeast Division
1) UConn
2) St. John's
3) Georgetown
4) Syracuse
5) Providence
Southeast Division
1) North Carolina
2) Duke
3) Virginia
4) Pitt
5) Villanova
Geographically would make more sense to flip Georgetown and Villanova but I wanted to keep Syracuse and Georgetown together.
So, I don't see Dayton mentioned anywhere? Must be an unintended oversight, right?
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on February 25, 2025, 12:56:22 PMFeel the mega conferences will do what is best for them.
Which in and of itself is not bad.
But feel it is bad for the many many left out and more importantly bad for America.
i'm sooo tempted, but the suspension would follow...so I'll begrudgingly resist 🤣
Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 25, 2025, 02:10:22 PMSo, I don't see Dayton mentioned anywhere? Must be an unintended oversight, right?
They are with DePaul, Butler, and Seton Hall.
ABD
A full-on merger does not make a ton of sense. Between the bulk of inventory somehow being cleanly split between FOX, ESPN and Peacock, it also creates a ton of unnecessary fat at the bottom in a current landscape defined by consolidation, not expansion. Additionally, with where the current payouts of the ACC are, it doesn't make financial sense to add (for basketball-only) UConn, St. John's, Villanova and/or Georgetown, because those payouts would have to be noticeably greater than what they each are making in the BE; and between the new payouts and tournament credits still being paid out, that would likely need to be higher than $10 million per year; no BE program, individually or even as a group, can add to the overall ACC contract because of the number of teams it would require ESPN to pay more (and ESPN just gave away the Sunday Night Baseball contract for *only* $550 million).
What is much more likely, and actually exciting, is to to create a limited scheduling alliance in a similar format to the Duke/Illinois game this past Saturday at MSG. Schedule 3-4 OOC games annually, creating top-matchups between the best brands of both leagues. Between the top of the BE and ACC, there could be some really great matchups (UNC/Villanova, UConn/Duke, Marquette/Louisville, Georgetown/Syracuse, etc.). And if you play these at MSG, Barclays, Capital One Arena or Spectrum Center (an off-campus 20k-ish seat NBA arena), you create a high-profile in-person and TV audience event (making a bit more revenues for both leagues, or just the teams, without doing a full conference merger or a challenge.
We will see though. The BE does need to be proactive for sure. With only eleven teams, and with the annual "Will DePaul win more than 4 conference games this year?", along with seemingly always having a second team in rebuilding mode (Hall, Georgetown, Providence, us, etc.) the room for error is vastly too small to maximize revenue (between getting the most teams into the NCAAT, and getting teams advance far into the NCAAT).
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 25, 2025, 10:21:58 AMexpanding their geographic reach. They have looked at St. John's for the NYC market and playing at MSG.
Would Marquette joining the Big XII make you more likely to tune into Kansas State-Texas Tech on a Saturday night in October? Are people in Omaha turning off the Huskers to watch Arizona play Baylor?
Quote from: Pakuni on February 25, 2025, 02:54:41 PMWould Marquette joining the Big XII make you more likely to tune into Kansas State-Texas Tech on a Saturday night in October? Are Creighton alums turning off the Huskers to watch Arizona play Baylor?
I'm not sure if that matters anymore. What they're after is regular access and exposure to the NYC media market. The ACC has it (Syracuse), the BE has it, and the Big Ten has it (Rutgers). The Big 12 wants a piece of it and to regularly play conference games at MSG.
It's always amazed me how into the conference realignment concepts people get, and how opinionated they are one way or the other...
If I remember correctly, when the Big East broke apart and the basketball schools stuck together everyone, or nearly everyone, thought it would be catastrophic and that the conference could turn into another mid major type of deal.
The new BE has been amazing for Marquette, it's hard to imagine how it could've gone better (sans a few Nattys)
The conference has been very relevant and has had two elite programs win multiple Nattys while the B10 mires in year after year of mediocrity.
That's a slam dunk and complete massive success for the conference, when most probably didn't expect it. Meanwhile, the ACC has struggled and UConn came crawling back when it saw the success the BE was having.
So, what we learn from history is that we just don't know how things will shape up.
Therefore, we can only trust those in the power positions to make the right move. We have no reason to distrust Val and Co, all the ADs, in making the right call.
After all, how could you not salivate at the thought of Marquette being in a conference with the current BE plus Duke, UNC, Louisville, Syracuse, ND etc?
I get that the idea of all the bottom feeders amongst the two conferences can be repulsive, but who cares?
If bigger and badder is the new trend, the name of the game, those in charge will figure it out.
Combining the two conferences accomplishes bigger and badder. Even though the ACC has been down, there are some perennially elite programs in that conference.
If some of the bottom feeders, or some of those new west coast programs need to be cut to smaller conferences then that stinks for them, but that's just the way of the world.
If expansion is the new name of the game, the new horizon, and keeping up with the B10, SEC, B12 is necessary then so be it
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 25, 2025, 03:04:13 PMI'm not sure if that matters anymore. What they're after is regular access and exposure to the NYC media market. The ACC has it (Syracuse), the BE has it, and the Big Ten has it (Rutgers). The Big 12 wants a piece of it and to regularly play conference games at MSG.
Are you suggesting New Yorkers are going to be more likely to watch KState, Texas Tech and Houston play football because St. John's plays basketball in the same conference?
These programs already have access to the New York market. P5 football games are national broadcasts.
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on February 25, 2025, 12:56:22 PMFeel the mega conferences will do what is best for them.
Which in and of itself is not bad.
But feel it is bad for the many many left out and more importantly bad for America.
This is a bold take...that I kinda agree with.
Quote from: The Lens on February 25, 2025, 01:25:00 PMGeorgetown becomes a story as soon as they have any success. When Ewing led the Hoyas to the 2020 BET title, SportsCenter was falling all over itself to cover it. A lot of media decisions are made by old people. Like to cover the Cowboys who hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 30 years.
If I'm ranking national draw of Big East teams (assuming each team would be Top 10 in the AP...ie relevant) I would guess it would go:
1) UConn
2) Georgetown
3) St. John's
4) Villanova
5) Marquette
6) Creighton
7) PC
8) Xavier
9) DePaul (you could argue me higher)
10) Hall
11) Butler
The Georgetown run in 2020 had no lasting impact on their success or their popularity. That era was long ago.
How has joining the ACC (for basketball) worked for Notre Dame?
Quote from: IrwinFletcher on February 25, 2025, 05:34:15 PMHow has joining the ACC (for basketball) worked for Notre Dame?
They had their only conference championship as a member of the ACC. Two Elite 8s as well.
I think their falling off was more about Brey sticking around too long than anything else. Their sports overall have been just fine there.
My rankings as assuming every team is #10 in the AP Poll what does that mean in terms of coverage / national conversation.
Quote from: The Lens on February 26, 2025, 02:19:07 PMMy rankings as assuming every team is #10 in the AP Poll what does that mean in terms of coverage / national conversation.
That's a flawed argument. When 2X defending champ UConn was top 10, it wasn't news at all, they're #1 on your ranking. If DePaul churns out a top 10 season, it'd be a massive story, just because they've been terrible for so long. Gtown is no longer the brand you think it is.
If you're not in the B1G or SEC, it would be negligent not to be having as many of these conversations as possible. The only certainty is that the B1G and SEC will be fine. Everyone else needs to be proactive with their post 2032 futures.
My pipe dream is that football f#cks off and forms its own league outside the NCAA and conferences realign to make geographic/traditional sense again in all other sports. Never going to happen but I love the idea. Football has screwed all the other sports.
I'm still confident that MU is in the highest level of competition post 2032. But whether that's as a member of the current Big East, a Big East/ACC hybrid, or as a basketball only member of the B1G or B12, who knows? Val should and is considering all options.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 25, 2025, 03:23:30 PMAre you suggesting New Yorkers are going to be more likely to watch KState, Texas Tech and Houston play football because St. John's plays basketball in the same conference?
These programs already have access to the New York market. P5 football games are national broadcasts.
Football? No. But Comissioner Yourmark has been very open talking about basketball being undervalued, so getting into the NYC market is about increasing basketball exposure. The Big Ten (Rutgers, huge alumni bases, especially Michigan and Penn State) and the ACC (Syracuse, huge alumni bases, especially UNC and Duke) are the only P4 conferences with a strong NYC presence. He wants a piece of it.
I'll say it again: The merger will happen after:
1) Clemson, Miami, Florida State and North Carolina join the SEC.
2) Virginia and Notre Dame join the BIG.
There will be a football league with what's left over. BC, Wake, Syracuse, VA Tech, NC State, UConn, Louisville, Pitt & Duke may eventually be rejoined by Cincinnati and West Virginia to form the Big 12 of the East. All are good but none are good enough.
This will be a very high-powered basketball league. Period.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 27, 2025, 02:45:36 PMI'll say it again: The merger will happen after:
1) Clemson, Miami, Florida State and North Carolina join the SEC.
2) Virginia and Notre Dame join the BIG.
There will be a football league with what's left over. BC, Wake, Syracuse, VA Tech, NC State, UConn, Louisville, Pitt & Duke may eventually be rejoined by Cincinnati and West Virginia to form the Big 12 of the East. All are good but none are good enough.
This will be a very high-powered basketball league. Period.
Just because you're saying it again doesn't mean you're not terribly wrong.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 27, 2025, 02:45:36 PMI'll say it again: The merger will happen after:
1) Clemson, Miami, Florida State and North Carolina join the SEC.
2) Virginia and Notre Dame join the BIG.
There will be a football league with what's left over. BC, Wake, Syracuse, VA Tech, NC State, UConn, Louisville, Pitt & Duke may eventually be rejoined by Cincinnati and West Virginia to form the Big 12 of the East. All are good but none are good enough.
This will be a very high-powered basketball league. Period.
I think that is very likely.
I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of mini kick off the year or in-season tournament with ACC and Big East teams at a couple of locations over a couple of days.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 27, 2025, 02:45:36 PMI'll say it again: The merger will happen after:
1) Clemson, Miami, Florida State and North Carolina join the SEC.
2) Virginia and Notre Dame join the BIG.
There will be a football league with what's left over. BC, Wake, Syracuse, VA Tech, NC State, UConn, Louisville, Pitt & Duke may eventually be rejoined by Cincinnati and West Virginia to form the Big 12 of the East. All are good but none are good enough.
This will be a very high-powered basketball league. Period.
I'll say it again: Bigfoot is real. Period.
Also, even if your scenario will ever be close to happening, what makes you think the B18G will cede North Carolina to the SEC? The B18G has long wanted UNC, which has much in common with their many outstanding state universities.
Quote from: MU82 on February 27, 2025, 06:26:38 PMI'll say it again: Bigfoot is real. Period.
Also, even if your scenario will ever be close to happening, what makes you think the B18G will cede North Carolina to the SEC? The B18G has long wanted UNC, which has much in common with their many outstanding state universities.
The top state schools in the ACC are better than the B18. And their overall schools are probably better as well.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 27, 2025, 07:40:33 PMThe top state schools in the ACC are better than the B18. And their overall schools are probably better as well.
Like right now? That certainly isn't the case. And I would argue even historically there is one ACC public university (North Carolina) that has a better history than the public schools of the Big Ten.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 27, 2025, 07:48:43 PMLike right now? That certainly isn't the case. And I would argue even historically there is one ACC public university (North Carolina) that has a better history than the public schools of the Big Ten.
UVA, Georgia Tech, Cal.
I just looked it up Fluffy. The ACC is ranked #1 academically among the Power 5 schools.
Muggs thought you were talking basketball. My bad.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 27, 2025, 08:21:47 PMMuggs thought you were talking basketball. My bad.
No worries.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 27, 2025, 07:48:43 PMLike right now? That certainly isn't the case. And I would argue even historically there is one ACC public university (North Carolina) that has a better history than the public schools of the Big Ten.
Louisville?
Quote from: MU82 on February 27, 2025, 06:26:38 PMI'll say it again: Bigfoot is real. Period.
Also, even if your scenario will ever be close to happening, what makes you think the B18G will cede North Carolina to the SEC? The B18G has long wanted UNC, which has much in common with their many outstanding state universities.
I've always kind of assumed UNC was B10 bound as well.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 27, 2025, 07:57:42 PMI just looked it up Fluffy. The ACC is ranked #1 academically among the Power 5 schools.
Who does the ranking and what objective metric is used.
Quote from: MU82 on February 27, 2025, 06:26:38 PMI'll say it again: Bigfoot is real. Period.
Also, even if your scenario will ever be close to happening, what makes you think the B18G will cede North Carolina to the SEC? The B18G has long wanted UNC, which has much in common with their many outstanding state universities.
Tier 1: UNC, Notre Dame
UNC is the big fish in all of this. No one else brings the athletic and academic reputation, fan base, market, and brand of UNC. Whichever conference wins the battle for UNC wins the next round of realignment.
Notre Dame is the other big fish, but I think they will hold onto their football independence as long as they can.
Tier 2: FSU, Clemson, Miami
Florida State, Clemson, and Miami have athletic success but are not as highly regarded academically (none of them are THE state university in their state).
Tier 3: Duke, Virginia, GT
Duke, Virginia, & Georgia Tech are great academic schools with good markets, but don't have the football cachet to make it in the big boy conferences (you could argue the same for UNC I guess).
Tier 4: Cal/Stanford
These two are almost assuredly a package deal. As enticing as being in California might be to the SEC, I can't see a world where two NorCal hippy liberal schools (with bad football) fit culturally with Georgia and Alabama. The Big 10 makes more sense.
Tier 5: Louisville, NC State, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Pitt, SMU, Virginia Tech, Boston College
One or more of these schools could get the call to fill out a conference with an even number of schools, but none of them are moving the needle in any significant way. They are either laughable in athletics (BC) or academics (Louisville). Does Syracuse get you New York? Maybe. Does the NC state legislature require UNC and NCSt to stay together? Maybe. But when all is said and done, THESE are the ACC schools we may hitch our wagon to someday.
If I had to guess:
Big 10: UNC, Notre Dame, Virginia, and either Georgia Tech or Virginia Tech
SEC: Clemson, Florida St, Miami, and one of Virginia Tech, Louisville, or SMU
Quote from: SaveOD238 on February 28, 2025, 09:54:37 AMIf I had to guess:
Big 10: UNC, Notre Dame, Virginia, and either Georgia Tech or Virginia Tech
SEC: Clemson, Florida St, Miami, and one of Virginia Tech, Louisville, or SMU
I agree with a lot of this, but I think the future is three 20 team leagues. SEC, B1G and B12.
B1G: UNC, Virginia
SEC: Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Duke
B12: Florida State, Miami, SMU, NC State
ND brought in over $220 million in revenue in 2023, and did at least $20 million better last year just from CFP payouts. As long as the CFP rules allow for at-large spots for independents, that's where they will stay.
Well will see. I'm not convinced that either the Big Ten or the SEC will be interested in expanding significantly if and when the ACC blows up. Things are quite different now with talk of dedicated number of slots for the CFP and everything.
And I think academics will only be played a lip-service role in all of this.
I also think that the future of the college basketball championship tournament once it splits from the NCAA will be pretty similar to the CFP.
The field will probably be something like 48 teams. You'll see something like 10-12 guaranteed slots for each of SEC/B1G/B12, and 12-18 at large bids for everyone else. The top 16 seeds (first round byes) go to the 16 highest ranked teams, the first round games would be between teams 17-48.
I can't see the SEC/B1G/B12 braintrust going with a 64-68 team tournament, I doubt they'd want to split up the money any more than they have to.
I also think the Group of 5 conferences, (six if you include the Pac-12) should test the media market for doing their own playoff and leaving the CFP behind. I think it may be more popular than people realize.
Oh, I think they for sure go to 64. The P4 alone have 68 teams and inviting 10-15 non-P4 it will let them keep the veneer of including everyone. They will want it to look as much like the current tournament to keep the fans and bettors invested. The 64-team bracket just looks better on a single page. That's why they won't shrink to 48, and any NCAA expansion beyond 68 will still funnel to a 64-team Thursday/Friday.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 28, 2025, 10:55:12 AMOh, I think they for sure go to 64. The P4 alone have 68 teams and inviting 10-15 non-P4 it will let them keep the veneer of including everyone. They will want it to look as much like the current tournament to keep the fans and bettors invested. The 64-team bracket just looks better on a single page. That's why they won't shrink to 48, and any NCAA expansion beyond 68 will still funnel to a 64-team Thursday/Friday.
Agree with this. I think we're a long, long ways away from shrinking the NCAA Tournament.
I agree that tourney will not shrink. The Cinderella teams are what make it special and drive ratings.
Regarding academics, I don't think that will matter much in realignment calculations. It it mattered, everyone would be fighting to get Cal and Stanford, and that will not be the case.
I really don't understand why football schools don't break from the NCAA just for football. It's been mentioned somewhere, but leaving all their other sports in the NCAA in regional conferences with traditional rivalries seems to make a lot of sense including financially. It also avoids all the hassle of setting up administratively for Olympic sports.
Schools participating in different conferences for different sports already happens.
Quote from: wiscwarrior on February 28, 2025, 03:32:31 PMI really don't understand why football schools don't break from the NCAA just for football. It's been mentioned somewhere, but leaving all their other sports in the NCAA in regional conferences with traditional rivalries seems to make a lot of sense including financially. It also avoids all the hassle of setting up administratively for Olympic sports.
Schools participating in different conferences for different sports already happens.
Because conferences package and sell their media rights for everything. I guess you could do the same for "Big Ten football" and "Big Ten the rest of the sports minus USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington." But I just don't see that working all that well.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 28, 2025, 10:55:12 AMOh, I think they for sure go to 64. The P4 alone have 68 teams and inviting 10-15 non-P4 it will let them keep the veneer of including everyone. They will want it to look as much like the current tournament to keep the fans and bettors invested. The 64-team bracket just looks better on a single page. That's why they won't shrink to 48, and any NCAA expansion beyond 68 will still funnel to a 64-team Thursday/Friday.
Right now CBS and Turner carry all the games. I wonder, post 2032, if some of the games wind up on one or more streaming services how that will affect the tournament.
Quote from: wiscwarrior on February 28, 2025, 03:32:31 PMI really don't understand why football schools don't break from the NCAA just for football. It's been mentioned somewhere, but leaving all their other sports in the NCAA in regional conferences with traditional rivalries seems to make a lot of sense including financially. It also avoids all the hassle of setting up administratively for Olympic sports.
Schools participating in different conferences for different sports already happens.
It's my dream. I also agree that it would make sense financially. But it would take a massive paradigm shift from the confrences that I don't see happening.
While everything hits cable now, it's also all streaming on CBS Sports and other apps. I'm guessing the next contract will have some stream only games, but the way it's going that's just the broadcast model of the next decade or two.
The current NCAAT tv deal is grossly undervalued. Imagine what it would fetch on open market today.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on February 28, 2025, 10:03:42 PMThe current NCAAT tv deal is grossly undervalued. Imagine what it would fetch on open market today.
I think that's the other big worry with the potential for a breakaway tournament. All the major conference rights deals are up in 2031 or 2032. That is ground zero for the next major round of upheaval. That's when the P4 can present their own basketball tournament model to networks and push for a big revenue boost.
EDIT: Just look at the CBB Crown starting this year. Any Big 10, Big 12, or Big East teams invited to it must accept. They are only inviting non-NCAA teams, but what's to prevent them from continuing this to 2032, then pulling their teams from the NCAA Tournament and sending invites to pretty much the entirety of the SEC and ACC with equal revenue shares?
I see the ACC is going to reset the revenue sharing among schools that will result in some schools losing $7M per year. (Also the early exit fees are being "adjusted")
I know the overall payout of the ACC deal is multiple times higher than the BE, but based on some estimates of the value of basketball in these deals and assuming the schools that get the reduction will minimize the revenue reduction to football, the BE's new contract could be better than the ACC's for basketball.
I believe I saw the BE deal was on par with the ACC already, for basketball value only. I don't like the merger concept but maybe I can see ACC schools warming to the concept.
I haven't read all the posts but didn't realize there was serious talk about ACC BE merger. Is that really a thing?
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on March 03, 2025, 11:03:11 AMI haven't read all the posts but didn't realize there was serious talk about ACC BE merger. Is that really a thing?
No.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on March 03, 2025, 11:03:11 AMI haven't read all the posts but didn't realize there was serious talk about ACC BE merger. Is that really a thing?
No, it was something thrown out by Pitino during a press conference.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on March 03, 2025, 11:03:11 AMI haven't read all the posts but didn't realize there was serious talk about ACC BE merger. Is that really a thing?
No one wants the BE
Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 03, 2025, 10:42:25 AMI see the ACC is going to reset the revenue sharing among schools that will result in some schools losing $7M per year. (Also the early exit fees are being "adjusted")
Yeah, deal appears imminent.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/44093338/sources-fsu-clemson-expected-reach-settlement-acc
Quote from: The Sultan on March 03, 2025, 12:02:51 PMI mean it's no A10.
Dayton tips the scales in favor of the A10. If we could get Dayton, I think we'd see revenues close to the Big10.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 03, 2025, 01:18:44 PMDayton tips the scales in favor of the A10. If we could get Dayton, I think we'd see revenues close to the Big10.
The classics never get old:
UDPride
November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking.
You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.
If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess. The A10 schools have the high ground. They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.
While you guys were sitting around counting the checks the last 6-7 years, the A10 was busy trying to position themselves as the best basketball-only conference. They never tried to be something they were not. They didn't sit still. They added Butler and VCU and St. Louis. They never twiddled thumbs waiting on conference collapses to snag a Georgetown.
Five years ago, some of the A10 schools might have listened to your plea to form a new hoops only league. But you were too busy counting benjamins. That ship has sailed, my friend. There may or may not be a collective empowerment between the Big East and A10, but if there is, it will be on the A10's terms.
The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal. Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.
The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians. That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.
Many of you are right in this sense: you are second class citizens in the Big East and have been for years. You cashed the paychecks, but were otherwise red-headed stepchildren. Your say never counted at the board meetings and you were to be seen and not heard. Football drove the bus and basketball was back-burner. But you should have seen this coming a long time ago. You waited far too long. Instead of being proactive and guaranteeing your own autonomy, nothing mattered as long as the checks didnt bounce. From the very beginning you never had a hand on the wheel -- and no conference should ever be run without all hands steering together in the same direction.
The A10 has always had that luxury. And member institutions are not in any hurry to jump ship in 50-foot seas when the boat ain't leaking. It might not be the fastest or prettiest ship on the high seas, but she's not foundering, and that's quite impressive given the current climate.
If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic? Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 03, 2025, 03:29:32 PMThe classics never get old:
UDPride
November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking.
You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.
If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess. The A10 schools have the high ground. They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.
While you guys were sitting around counting the checks the last 6-7 years, the A10 was busy trying to position themselves as the best basketball-only conference. They never tried to be something they were not. They didn't sit still. They added Butler and VCU and St. Louis. They never twiddled thumbs waiting on conference collapses to snag a Georgetown.
Five years ago, some of the A10 schools might have listened to your plea to form a new hoops only league. But you were too busy counting benjamins. That ship has sailed, my friend. There may or may not be a collective empowerment between the Big East and A10, but if there is, it will be on the A10's terms.
The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal. Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.
The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians. That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.
Many of you are right in this sense: you are second class citizens in the Big East and have been for years. You cashed the paychecks, but were otherwise red-headed stepchildren. Your say never counted at the board meetings and you were to be seen and not heard. Football drove the bus and basketball was back-burner. But you should have seen this coming a long time ago. You waited far too long. Instead of being proactive and guaranteeing your own autonomy, nothing mattered as long as the checks didnt bounce. From the very beginning you never had a hand on the wheel -- and no conference should ever be run without all hands steering together in the same direction.
The A10 has always had that luxury. And member institutions are not in any hurry to jump ship in 50-foot seas when the boat ain't leaking. It might not be the fastest or prettiest ship on the high seas, but she's not foundering, and that's quite impressive given the current climate.
If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic? Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
And just think. You have to pay a monthly fee just to participate at UDPride to get this type of hard hitting analysis.
I think the funniest part is that he notes conferences lining up to get their conference tournaments into the Barclays Center and the Big East is left to play in the dump that is MSG. LOL.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 03, 2025, 04:00:52 PMAnd just think. You have to pay a monthly fee just to participate at UDPride to get this type of hard hitting analysis.
I think the funniest part is that he notes conferences lining up to get their conference tournaments into the Barclays Center and the Big East is left to play in the dump that is MSG. LOL.
Don't be so dismissive; I believe people from Dayton are considered national experts in "dumps".
I bet UDPride bet big on NFTs
Quote from: Shaka Shart on March 03, 2025, 05:25:07 PMI bet UDPride bet big on NFTs
Bet big on the Cobalt market.
Quote from: tower912 on March 03, 2025, 05:26:01 PMBet big on the Cobalt market.
More like colloid silver
Quote from: Pakuni on March 03, 2025, 03:29:32 PMThe classics never get old:
UDPride
November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking.
You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.
If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess. The A10 schools have the high ground. They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.
While you guys were sitting around counting the checks the last 6-7 years, the A10 was busy trying to position themselves as the best basketball-only conference. They never tried to be something they were not. They didn't sit still. They added Butler and VCU and St. Louis. They never twiddled thumbs waiting on conference collapses to snag a Georgetown.
Five years ago, some of the A10 schools might have listened to your plea to form a new hoops only league. But you were too busy counting benjamins. That ship has sailed, my friend. There may or may not be a collective empowerment between the Big East and A10, but if there is, it will be on the A10's terms.
The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal. Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.
The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians. That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.
Many of you are right in this sense: you are second class citizens in the Big East and have been for years. You cashed the paychecks, but were otherwise red-headed stepchildren. Your say never counted at the board meetings and you were to be seen and not heard. Football drove the bus and basketball was back-burner. But you should have seen this coming a long time ago. You waited far too long. Instead of being proactive and guaranteeing your own autonomy, nothing mattered as long as the checks didnt bounce. From the very beginning you never had a hand on the wheel -- and no conference should ever be run without all hands steering together in the same direction.
The A10 has always had that luxury. And member institutions are not in any hurry to jump ship in 50-foot seas when the boat ain't leaking. It might not be the fastest or prettiest ship on the high seas, but she's not foundering, and that's quite impressive given the current climate.
If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic? Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
When you read this back, it reads like a copy pasta. It's really that sad.