For the first time in his tenure at Marquette I really felt for Shaka tonight.
The look on his face said it all...
He's got an entire system based off of senior leadership carrying the way- a system that thrives off of guys gaining experience as underclassmen, stepping into the starting lineup when needed, and starring in their roles to carry the team as Jr's and especially Sr's.
When you get what he's gotten from the upperclassmen the last month or so, this deep into their tenures, it's hard to not feel bad.
I'm not casting stones, I'm not suggesting he starts all the freshmen and sophomores. Im actually not saying I even know the answer, or that there is an answer.
All I'm saying is that for the first time in his Marquette career it feels like his tried and true system is taking a large blow, and that stinks.
I don't know what gives in the way those guys have played of late, with injuries likely involved, but I also don't think it's fair to give them a complete pass.
David Joplin, Stevie, and even Kam have been poor of late, to levels that we would never expect. They have been amazing ambassadors to Marquette and have had an incredible 4-year run, and their story is still being written, but they also need to be perform for their coach's system to work.
I don't think the answer for this season is giving freshmen and sophs more run- don't forget about a month ago we were discussing if the bench is even usable. It's nice to see isolated games like Zaide had today- I've always thought that kid will be great at MU- and to see many of the others be serviceable.
The answer to salvaging this season is Kam, Stevie, Jop, Chase, and Ben playing like Shaka wants them to play, expects them to play.
The answer is the upperclassman coming together and playing with a chip on their shoulder in order to turn this thing around.
If one of the above isn't holding up his end of the bargain the others have to hold him accountable and then you make a move, but as a whole the group above needs to right the ship here.
If they don't, or can't, all you can do is feel for Shaka that the plan has not gone to plan.
At that point it would be back to the drawing board...
Well said Dr.V.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 21, 2025, 08:44:36 PMWell said Dr.V.
Agree. Even if the story doesn't end well for these guys, it's still been a good story. They've all had good careers and have been part of a lot of big wins.
Jop is a head scratcher.
A couple of times he is at the basket only a couple feet away with a single defender. He decides to pass the ball out.
Then other times he is at the top of the key with two players in position in front of him and he decides to drive like a bull through them.
Quote from: NCMUFan on February 21, 2025, 08:53:52 PMJop is a head scratcher.
A couple of times he is at the basket only a couple feet away with a single defender. He decides to pass the ball out.
Then other times he is at the top of the key with two players in position in front of him and he decides to drive like a bull through them.
It's perplexing. And today's performance was extremely upsetting.
Shaka name drops players that he is disappointed with. TKo, Kam last season. Joplin this season. The bench this season. We will see if he names names this weekend.
I don't feel bad for Shaka. At all. Make some adjustments in playing time (not gonna change scheme) or in your psychological approach to get these guys loose and ready to play. That's his job.
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 09:00:04 PMShaka name drops players that he is disappointed with. TKo, Kam last season. Joplin this season. The bench this season. We will see if he names names this weekend.
https://x.com/bensteelemjs/status/1893129391045013832?s=46&t=jOIAE3JSVy6X9HsYnQP8Nw
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 09:00:04 PMShaka name drops players that he is disappointed with. TKo, Kam last season. Joplin this season. The bench this season. We will see if he names names this weekend.
The minutes tell us the story.
Again, there are likely injuries involved, but Jop, Stevie, and Ben got less minutes than the bench.
I'm not convinced that if those 3 were performing as Shaka wanted they wouldn't be getting more minutes than the underclassmen coming off the bench, injury or not.
Either way, the bigger problem he faces is at this point, so deep into their careers, how do you motivate them to snap out of it and perform the way they are capable, or the way you hope they should be capable, to finish the season strong?
If this is the culmination of the recruit and develop model I sure hope he reconsiders to some degree.
Quote from: DoctorV on February 21, 2025, 09:04:22 PMEither way, the bigger problem he faces is at this point, so deep into their careers, how do you motivate them to snap out of it and perform the way they are capable, or the way you hope they should be capable, to finish the season strong?
Right. Sigh. Hopefully they can get healthier...I guess.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 21, 2025, 09:06:29 PMIf this is the culmination of the recruit and develop model I sure hope he reconsiders to some degree.
Would be thrilled to hear the "logic" that led to this post.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 21, 2025, 09:27:29 PMWould be thrilled to hear the "logic" that led to this post.
His first class of HS recruits are wilting as they get to the end of their tenure. This could have been prevented to some degree with better quality depth, particularly at guard, rather than redshirting two lottery ticket HS signings.
We didn't know how severe Sean's injury was, but they did. Not having someone to take some of the load off of Kam really altered the trajectory of the season.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 21, 2025, 09:35:04 PMHis first class of HS recruits are wilting as they get to the end of their tenure. This could have been prevented to some degree with better depth rather than redshirting two lottery ticket HS signings.
We didn't know how severe Sean's injury was, but they did. Not having someone to take some of the load off of Kam really altered their trajectory.
The senior class is not his first class of high school recruits. Jop followed him so that can be considered an exception.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 21, 2025, 09:38:00 PMThe senior class is not his first class of high school recruits. Jop followed him so that can be considered an exception.
Fine, first class of freshmen he had. But my point stands. They're cooked.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 21, 2025, 09:35:04 PMWe didn't know how severe Sean's injury was, but they did
I'll likely be proven wrong in this situation, but the communication in this one doesn't make sense to me. Shaka says he's medically cleared, and will play when he's ready...which turns out to be next year???
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 09:39:36 PMI'll likely be proven wrong in this situation, but the communication in this one doesn't make sense to me. Shaka says he's medically cleared, and will play when he's ready...which turns out to be next year???
It was more than just an ACL. He went into more detail in one of the postgames after the redshirt was announced.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 21, 2025, 09:41:27 PMIt was more than just an ACL. He went into more detail in one of the postgames after the redshirt was announced.
So Sean wasn't medically cleared?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 09:39:36 PMI'll likely be proven wrong in this situation, but the communication in this one doesn't make sense to me. Shaka says he's medically cleared, and will play when he's ready...which turns out to be next year???
Shaka got burned on that one unexpectedly. It was painfully obvious listening to his comments on Sean at the time. Shaka was caught completely off guard that Sean didn't want to play this year. Sean didn't feel confident enough. That's fine it's his decision, but it surprised Shaka without question.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 09:42:13 PMSo Sean wasn't medically cleared?
The caveat is being ready is more than just being medically cleared.
So I'm the only one doing the math. Ok.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 09:45:26 PMSo I'm the only one doing the math. Ok.
There's nothing confusing. He was medically cleared. But he also didn't feel comfortable playing on the knee at a speed he could give in game play.
Same thing happened to the Florida big man. He was supposed to return a month ago. Was cleared. Night of game he changed his mind cause hedidnt feel ready. And planned to redshirt
He did however change his mind again last week after nother injury feeling like he could help.
Bryce Hopkins was cleared. Couldn't go.
There are two problems:
a) Joplin. When he doesn't have the ball, he's like a 6th defender. His screens are terrible and he brings his defender into the action to help on the ball which takes opportunities away from Kam. When he does have the ball, he's a turnover. Jop is the worst player on the team bar the walkons and just needs to sit. You can see that he's causing chemistry problems because he's taking opportunities away from better players. Sit him, replace him with anyone, and the team will improve. Give him a little run after the first tv timeout and if he makes his first shot he can play longer. If he drives or misses, he gets yanked.
b) There is no offensive system. I see others saying that the system is fine. The system is now out of date and too easy to defend. Look at Xavier and Creighton and (god forbid - with a guy I think is a horrible head coach) Villanova. They have an offensive system that gets easy buckets and open 3's. Nevada Smith has to go and Shaka needs to hire an offensive coordinator to put in a system. Last year's system was better because 15 PNR per game is tough to defend. Why they don't run more PNR this year is a mystery.
I'm not anti-Shaka yet because I think culture is important, but if there are not changes immediately - changes which are sooooo obvious - then I'll have to stop supporting Shaka. Both of the above problems are on Shaka.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 21, 2025, 09:06:29 PMIf this is the culmination of the recruit and develop model I sure hope he reconsiders to some degree.
Do you really believe he will?
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 22, 2025, 03:49:05 AMThere are two problems:
a) Joplin. When he doesn't have the ball, he's like a 6th defender. His screens are terrible and he brings his defender into the action to help on the ball which takes opportunities away from Kam. When he does have the ball, he's a turnover. Jop is the worst player on the team bar the walkons and just needs to sit. You can see that he's causing chemistry problems because he's taking opportunities away from better players. Sit him, replace him with anyone, and the team will improve. Give him a little run after the first tv timeout and if he makes his first shot he can play longer. If he drives or misses, he gets yanked.
b) There is no offensive system. I see others saying that the system is fine. The system is now out of date and too easy to defend. Look at Xavier and Creighton and (god forbid - with a guy I think is a horrible head coach) Villanova. They have an offensive system that gets easy buckets and open 3's. Nevada Smith has to go and Shaka needs to hire an offensive coordinator to put in a system. Last year's system was better because 15 PNR per game is tough to defend. Why they don't run more PNR this year is a mystery.
I'm not anti-Shaka yet because I think culture is important, but if there are not changes immediately - changes which are sooooo obvious - then I'll have to stop supporting Shaka. Both of the above problems are on Shaka.
Lol. Yes. It's amazing these changes that are "sooo obvious" can't be seen by the head coach. 🙄🙄🙄
One month of bad ball and Scoopers want to throw out what has been successful for the previous three seasons.
Again the collective resilience of tissue paper.
It is remarkable who poorly this team shoots from 3. Joplin is shooting less than 30% after hitting nearly 40% as a soph. Kam's percentage decline is similar.
MU is 262nd in the country for 3 point percentage.
If either one was shooting at a rate that is remotely close to what they did in the past, it would be a totally different season and trajectory.
Yes. If Kam and Joplin hit 3's at a rate consistent with their first 3 seasons, most of the angst would never have happened. Alas.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 22, 2025, 06:45:35 AMAgain the collective resilience of tissue paper.
We've all been Marquette fans longer than tissue paper has. Sorry that you dislike people venting after a frustrating loss.
One of those cases where both things can be true. It is a message board and fans come here to vent after losses. And some only come to vent after losses.
The team is 20-7 with (checking notes) (this will take a minute)
-no PG
-no shooting
-no rebounding
-no bench
-no hope
-no center
-no senior leadership
-no offensive system
-no defensive system
-no adjustments
-no coaching
-no magic player from the portal
Should change the name of the school to Hogwarts, as magic is the only explanation for 20-7, 95-37.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 22, 2025, 06:45:35 AMLol. Yes. It's amazing these changes that are "sooo obvious" can't be seen by the head coach. 🙄🙄🙄
One month of bad ball and Scoopers want to throw out what has been successful for the previous three seasons.
Again the collective resilience of tissue paper.
I think it's more about Shaka not adjusting. I know Shaka can see that things are stale. Try something different. Jop is Jop, go with someone else (Parnham). Gold, regardless of why, is hurting the team with his below mediocre play. Maybe give Hamilton an extended run on Tuesday. Or, do nothing and hope for auto-correct. Villanova is not a bad team but the loss, imo, is more about what Marquette didn't do than what 'nova did. MU won at Maryland and blew out Purdue and Wisconsin, so winability is there. This malaise is correctable, but will take some change, probably in the lineup.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 07:53:20 AMOne of those cases where both things can be true. It is a message board and fans come here to vent after losses. And some only come to vent after losses.
The team is 20-7 with (checking notes) (this will take a minute)
-no PG
-no shooting
-no rebounding
-no bench
-no hope
-no center
-no senior leadership
-no offensive system
-no defensive system
-no adjustments
-no coaching
-no magic player from the portal
Should change the name of the school to Hogwarts, as magic is the only explanation for 20-7, 95-37.
so, roll with 20-7 because we must be good, we're 20-7? You watch the games, you can see the fade at this point. Games at UConn and home for StJ's aren't exactly looking like W's at this point. Shaka on the radio post-game...just by his tone I could tell he knows change is needed, but he seemed lost as to what. So, do nothing 'cause hey, we are 20-7?
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 07:39:23 AMYes. If Kam and Joplin hit 3's at a rate consistent with their first 3 seasons, most of the angst would never have happened. Alas.
but Kam is not. Probably playing point guard is why. And, he had TK getting him the ball last season. Jop? Some regression combined with a need for a true pg we don't seem to currently have. Alas...season is slowly fading away.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 22, 2025, 06:45:35 AMLol. Yes. It's amazing these changes that are "sooo obvious" can't be seen by the head coach. 🙄🙄🙄
One month of bad ball and Scoopers want to throw out what has been successful for the previous three seasons.
Again the collective resilience of tissue paper.
No idea what the answer is, but last night felt like a seminal moment. The SH game was clearly a sugar high rather than a get right game.
It's been a good run, but at this point, Shaka riding with the horses that got him here feels foolish given what the seniors have put on tape of late.
I sense a longing for a return to the Wojo years when, after a frustrating stretch, he announced that every position was open and would be determined by the effort in practice the next week. Of course, the only change was JjJ dnp/cd-ing, as he showed up late for one of those practices.
Get healthy, stay healthy, hit 3's, develop the bench. My mantra all season. The bench part is coming along.
Tower, the bench is by no means a strength yet, but it's not why we got boat raced last night or have sputtered the last two months either.
Quote from: GB Warrior on February 22, 2025, 08:41:36 AMTower, the bench is by no means a strength yet, but it's not why we got boat raced last night or have sputtered the last two months either.
It is far less of a liability.
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 08:17:39 AMso, roll with 20-7 because we must be good, we're 20-7? You watch the games, you can see the fade at this point. Games at UConn and home for StJ's aren't exactly looking like W's at this point. Shaka on the radio post-game...just by his tone I could tell he knows change is needed, but he seemed lost as to what. So, do nothing 'cause hey, we are 20-7?
Yes, I choose to focus on the positive. And it is a healthy sign that Shaka is ticked. It would be odd if he wasn't.
Looking back at the 40 seasons I have been following MU, almost every team has flat spots, rough patches. None have ended their season with a victory. This team is in a rough patch. The ceiling hasn't changed.
Quote from: GB Warrior on February 22, 2025, 08:28:58 AMNo idea what the answer is, but last night felt like a seminal moment. The SH game was clearly a sugar high rather than a get right game.
It's been a good run, but at this point, Shaka riding with the horses that got him here feels foolish given what the seniors have put on tape of late.
A major shake up has been needed and still is needed. For sure Gold and Jop need to be on bench. They can come in as part of the rotation. Probably Mitchell also. Doubt if Shaka will do that though. Maybe Gold and that will be it.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 22, 2025, 07:45:44 AMWe've all been Marquette fans longer than tissue paper has. Sorry that you dislike people venting after a frustrating loss.
Vent away. I don't care. But some of the statements are more than venting. And show a complete lack of perspective much less good basketball thought.
It seems like each of our upper classman outside of Ross has regressed to their ability and role they had last year.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 22, 2025, 03:49:05 AMThere are two problems:
a) Joplin. When he doesn't have the ball, he's like a 6th defender. His screens are terrible and he brings his defender into the action to help on the ball which takes opportunities away from Kam. When he does have the ball, he's a turnover. Jop is the worst player on the team bar the walkons and just needs to sit. You can see that he's causing chemistry problems because he's taking opportunities away from better players. Sit him, replace him with anyone, and the team will improve. Give him a little run after the first tv timeout and if he makes his first shot he can play longer. If he drives or misses, he gets yanked. /quote]
My hot take with Jop is that he only starts and plays over Lowery because he's a senior.
I would be shocked if Shaka made any changes to the starting lineup. He may get Zaide, Owens, and Parham a lot more playing time, but the starting group will remain the same. Hamilton also needs more time so Shaka can figure out if he can really play or not. At this point, it is all about next year.
Which is what happened last night.
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 08:25:32 AMbut Kam is not. Probably playing point guard is why. And, he had TK getting him the ball last season. Jop? Some regression combined with a need for a true pg we don't seem to currently have. Alas...season is slowly fading away.
I think burden of being both primary scorer and ball handler, with no one taking the load off, has worn down Kam's energy over the course of the season. He's carried a very heavy burden that has taken its toll this deep in the season.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 08:29:22 AMI sense a longing for a return to the Wojo years when, after a frustrating stretch, he announced that every position was open and would be determined by the effort in practice the next week. Of course, the only change was JjJ dnp/cd-ing, as he showed up late for one of those practices.
Get healthy, stay healthy, hit 3's, develop the bench. My mantra all season. The bench part is coming along.
My opinion only, but I think if we're going to make a run this year some tweaks are needed. Jop, Stevie and Ben still need to play and be a big part of what we're doing. But Zaide and Owens add a different dimension that we don't have right now. Length, athleticism, confident shooting.
Try the tweaks. We have 5 games. Maybe we find something. Maybe we don't. But it doesn't seem to me that Stevie and Ben are healthy enough to be the difference makers they can be when healthy. If it doesn't work we can always go back to the original 5 in the BET and beyond.
The problem with shutting down Stevie and Ben is that you are now dressing
8 scholarship players and hoping to get better by relying on freshmen and sophomores.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 22, 2025, 03:49:05 AMThere are two problems:
a) Joplin. When he doesn't have the ball, he's like a 6th defender. His screens are terrible and he brings his defender into the action to help on the ball which takes opportunities away from Kam. When he does have the ball, he's a turnover. Jop is the worst player on the team bar the walkons and just needs to sit. You can see that he's causing chemistry problems because he's taking opportunities away from better players. Sit him, replace him with anyone, and the team will improve. Give him a little run after the first tv timeout and if he makes his first shot he can play longer. If he drives or misses, he gets yanked.
b) There is no offensive system. I see others saying that the system is fine. The system is now out of date and too easy to defend. Look at Xavier and Creighton and (god forbid - with a guy I think is a horrible head coach) Villanova. They have an offensive system that gets easy buckets and open 3's. Nevada Smith has to go and Shaka needs to hire an offensive coordinator to put in a system. Last year's system was better because 15 PNR per game is tough to defend. Why they don't run more PNR this year is a mystery.
I'm not anti-Shaka yet because I think culture is important, but if there are not changes immediately - changes which are sooooo obvious - then I'll have to stop supporting Shaka. Both of the above problems are on Shaka.
LOL
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 08:29:22 AMI sense a longing for a return to the Wojo years when, after a frustrating stretch, he announced that every position was open and would be determined by the effort in practice the next week. Of course, the only change was JjJ dnp/cd-ing, as he showed up late for one of those practices.
Get healthy, stay healthy, hit 3's, develop the bench. My mantra all season. The bench part is coming along.
Honestly, at this point this season feels like a replay of 2018-2019, so we may have traveled back in time to the Wojo years. That's what's so frustrating to me.
Well, if we find out after the fact about infighting and a team divided, sure. Of course, Sam, Joey, and Markus were all banged up that season, too. But injuries are just an excuse, not a reason, when a player is wearing an MU uniform.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 11:33:02 AMWell, if we find out after the fact about infighting and a team divided, sure. Of course, Sam, Joey, and Markus were all banged up that season, too. But injuries are just an excuse, not a reason, when a player is wearing an MU uniform.
Not the cause, the results. Doesn't need to be infighting
Sometimes a team needs a guy that's just cocky, ultra-competitive, not afraid to be a bit of an a-hole on the court, and good enough to back it up. That attitude can be infectious (see TKO and Diener).
Quote from: Zog from Margo on February 22, 2025, 11:40:25 AMSometimes a team needs a guy that's just cocky, ultra-competitive, not afraid to be a bit of an a-hole on the court, and good enough to back it up. That attitude can be infectious (see TKO and Diener).
I don't think that's their problem.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 22, 2025, 03:49:05 AMThere are two problems:
a) Joplin. When he doesn't have the ball, he's like a 6th defender. His screens are terrible and he brings his defender into the action to help on the ball which takes opportunities away from Kam. When he does have the ball, he's a turnover. Jop is the worst player on the team bar the walkons and just needs to sit. You can see that he's causing chemistry problems because he's taking opportunities away from better players. Sit him, replace him with anyone, and the team will improve. Give him a little run after the first tv timeout and if he makes his first shot he can play longer. If he drives or misses, he gets yanked.
b) There is no offensive system. I see others saying that the system is fine. The system is now out of date and too easy to defend. Look at Xavier and Creighton and (god forbid - with a guy I think is a horrible head coach) Villanova. They have an offensive system that gets easy buckets and open 3's. Nevada Smith has to go and Shaka needs to hire an offensive coordinator to put in a system. Last year's system was better because 15 PNR per game is tough to defend. Why they don't run more PNR this year is a mystery.
I'm not anti-Shaka yet because I think culture is important, but if there are not changes immediately - changes which are sooooo obvious - then I'll have to stop supporting Shaka. Both of the above problems are on Shaka.
I agree with B.
Listened a Pitino interview where he said he's installing 5 new plays to keep defenses on their heels. We don't have plays. We run basic pro-style pick and pops. It can be difficult to defend, but definitely not when you can't shoot.
They need sets. The announcers mentioned at least 4 times yesterday how Marquette had no one in the paint on offense. 5 guys just standing on the perimeter waiting for the ball handler to make a move.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 11:43:12 AMI agree with B.
??? B was full of absurd statements.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 22, 2025, 03:49:05 AMThere is no offensive system. I see others saying that the system is fine. The system is now out of date and too easy to defend.
So he starts with there is no system...but then has complaints about the system. (So he contradicts himself immediately.) Furthermore, how is the system "out of date?" Was it not out of date two months ago?
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 22, 2025, 03:49:05 AMThey have an offensive system that gets easy buckets and open 3's. Nevada Smith has to go and Shaka needs to hire an offensive coordinator to put in a system.
Marquette is getting PLENTY of open 3s. That's not the problem. They aren't hitting them. So defenses sag, limit ball movement, and collapse on players when they get into the lane. I'm not sure what the "system" is supposed to do when players simply aren't hitting shots.
Furthermore the idea of Smart getting rid of Nevada Smith is ABSOLUTELY hilarious considering what Shaka's teams have done offensively up until the last few weeks.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 11:43:12 AMI agree with B.
Listened a Pitino interview where he said he's installing 5 new plays to keep defenses on their heels. We don't have plays. We run basic pro-style pick and pops. It can be difficult to defend, but definitely not when you can't shoot.
They need sets. The announcers mentioned at least 4 times yesterday how Marquette had no one in the paint on offense. 5 guys just standing on the perimeter waiting for the ball handler to make a move.
That's called a 5 man out. It's deliberate.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 22, 2025, 11:51:22 AMThat's called a 5 man out. It's deliberate.
Correct. Furthermore, it was understandable why they moved to it before the season began. Gold is a different type of big than Oso.
And it was working...until the shooting went downhill.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 22, 2025, 11:53:58 AMCorrect. Furthermore, it was understandable why they moved to it before the season began. Gold is a different type of big than Oso.
And it was working...until the shooting went downhill.
I'd like to see someone other then ross make use of the dunk position. But alas, poor ben just wants to shoot. Could be so strong from that spot.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 22, 2025, 11:51:22 AMThat's called a 5 man out. It's deliberate.
Which doesn't work well when you can't shoot. The looks remain good, they just can't shoot and aren't just going to magically break out.
Gotta find ways to get to the basket, draw fouls.
5 out can be tough to guard, but it gets easier to guard when you wear it out and run the same constant motions out of the one set.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 11:55:15 AMGotta find ways to get to the basket, draw fouls.
They had 57 two point shots yesterday - presumably all from the lane. And shot 42% on them. Not good.
Again, since they don't have a post up type of offense, it gets really hard if you don't hit shots. I don't think anyone thought THIS team would shoot 32.4% from three. That is ultimately the problem.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 11:43:12 AMI agree with B.
Listened a Pitino interview where he said he's installing 5 new plays to keep defenses on their heels. We don't have plays. We run basic pro-style pick and pops. It can be difficult to defend, but definitely not when you can't shoot.
They need sets. The announcers mentioned at least 4 times yesterday how Marquette had no one in the paint on offense. 5 guys just standing on the perimeter waiting for the ball handler to make a move.
The team doesn't have a secondary creator like it had with Oso last season. That facet has been a huge loss.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 11:55:15 AMWhich doesn't work well when you can't shoot. The looks remain good, they just can't shoot and aren't just going to magically break out.
Gotta find ways to get to the basket, draw fouls.
5 out can be tough to guard, but it gets easier to guard when you wear it out and run the same constant motions out of the one set.
Huh? Maybe 5th-8th grade 5 man out is designed to Chuck up open 3s. But the bigger picture in the 5 man out is all the open lanes for drives and cuts. Which marquette excels at getting to. They just shot 42% from 2point.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 11:55:15 AMWhich doesn't work well when you can't shoot. The looks remain good, they just can't shoot and aren't just going to magically break out.
Gotta find ways to get to the basket, draw fouls.
5 out can be tough to guard, but it gets easier to guard when you wear it out and run the same constant motions out of the one set.
Offense ran beautifully when they had a center who could run the pick and roll, right now they are lacking that person, get very few easy buckets. Secondly they do not make open shots and time to recruit a kid who has a jump shot.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 22, 2025, 12:02:08 PMThey had 57 two point shots yesterday - presumably all from the lane. And shot 42% on them. Not good.
Again, since they don't have a post up type of offense, it gets really hard if you don't hit shots. I don't think anyone thought THIS team would shoot 32.4% from three. That is ultimately the problem.
The problem appears to be that anytime Joplin or Gold come to screen for the ball handler, it is an automatic pop. There is rarely, almost never, a roll. Our forwards don't like playing near the basket and that's a problem. Taking shots inside the arc is one thing, but getting good ones is another thing. Their most open looks have been 3s and that's why I think they settle for them.
Ben had a perfect opportunity for a layup or dunk yesterday and he pulled up for a floater...someone needs to remind him he's 6'11" and would be tough to guard in the paint. We need our forwards to be willing to get to the basket.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 07:39:23 AMYes. If Kam and Joplin hit 3's at a rate consistent with their first 3 seasons, most of the angst would never have happened. Alas.
Maybe they were getting better looks and shots with 2 of the all great passers in MU history.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 12:19:48 PMThe problem appears to be that anytime Joplin or Gold come to screen for the ball handler, it is an automatic pop. There is rarely, almost never, a roll. Our forwards don't like playing near the basket and that's a problem. Taking shots inside the arc is one thing, but getting good ones is another thing. Their most open looks have been 3s and that's why I think they settle for them.
Ben had a perfect opportunity for a layup or dunk yesterday and he pulled up for a floater...someone needs to remind him he's 6'11" and would be tough to guard in the paint. We need our forwards to be willing to get to the basket.
And I think Royce helps a lot in this area. He can play well at the basket and with his back to the basket.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 12:19:48 PMThe problem appears to be that anytime Joplin or Gold come to screen for the ball handler, it is an automatic pop. There is rarely, almost never, a roll. Our forwards don't like playing near the basket and that's a problem. Taking shots inside the arc is one thing, but getting good ones is another thing. Their most open looks have been 3s and that's why I think they settle for them.
Ben had a perfect opportunity for a layup or dunk yesterday and he pulled up for a floater...someone needs to remind him he's 6'11" and would be tough to guard in the paint. We need our forwards to be willing to get to the basket.
I don't think we're in a disagreement that both jop and gold should get inside more
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 22, 2025, 12:25:14 PMI don't think we're in a disagreement that both jop and gold should get inside more
It's weird to me. Joplin actually looks strong when he makes a point to back down a defender and go off 2 feet. He usually does it once every game or at least every few games...then he just goes away from it. Ben almost never tries.
At least when Ben misses 3s though, he doesn't force. If Joplin is missing 3s, he has no problem going 0-6 to try and shoot his way out of it.
I still feel confident they can figure it out. Just frustrating seeing them continue to do the same old same old.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 22, 2025, 06:45:35 AMLol. Yes. It's amazing these changes that are "sooo obvious" can't be seen by the head coach. 🙄🙄🙄
One month of bad ball and Scoopers want to throw out what has been successful for the previous three seasons.
Again the collective resilience of tissue paper.
Fan resilience? That's new one.
Anyhow, at what point should a coach say "this isn't working, maybe we need to adjust?"
Six weeks? Two months? A couple of seasons?
I'd always been under the impression that coaches should adjust as circumstances dictate, not based on an arbitrary timeline.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 22, 2025, 12:36:12 PMFan resilience? That's new one.
Anyhow, at what point should a coach say "this isn't working, maybe we need to adjust?"
Six weeks? Two months? A couple of seasons?
I'd always been under the impression that coaches should adjust as circumstances dictate, not based on an arbitrary timeline.
Yeah I have addressed this already. Not many adjustments that can be made when you're not shooting well.
Quote from: rgoode57 on February 22, 2025, 09:33:28 AMI would be shocked if Shaka made any changes to the starting lineup. He may get Zaide, Owens, and Parham a lot more playing time, but the starting group will remain the same. Hamilton also needs more time so Shaka can figure out if he can really play or not. At this point, it is all about next year.
High-level coaches simply don't think like this - especially coaches of ranked, 20-win teams that are locks for the NCAA Tournament.
The development of next season's team will take place in the summer, early fall and then into the season, not in a few games at the end of this one.
Now, Shaka very well might play the younger guys more - as he did last night - but he won't do so because he's looking ahead to 2025-26. If he does so, it will be because he thinks playing those guys will help the team for the remainder of
this season.
Regardless, I'm just telling you that Shaka Smart doesn't think the way you're talking about. No coach of any NCAA Tournament-bound team does. Period.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 22, 2025, 12:40:35 PMYeah I have addressed this already. Not many adjustments that can be made when you're not shooting well.
Why are they suddenly not shooting well? Just a run of bad luck?
And either way, if your team is showing you it can't be effective when so reliant on threes, can't they adjust? Or are they somehow bound to an offensive system that poorly matches their skills?
And why are teams (not named DePaul and Seton Hall) shooting so well against MU's defense? More bad luck? Or have teams adjusted to what MU wants to do defensively?
Quote from: rgoode57 on February 22, 2025, 09:33:28 AMI would be shocked if Shaka made any changes to the starting lineup. He may get Zaide, Owens, and Parham a lot more playing time, but the starting group will remain the same. Hamilton also needs more time so Shaka can figure out if he can really play or not. At this point, it is all about next year.
Ya. I'd doubt it too. If he did start Zaide for say, Joplin...it wouldn't be permanent. It'd be more of a wake up attempt.
Doubt it'll happen though.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 22, 2025, 12:53:34 PMWhy are they suddenly not shooting well? Just a run of bad luck?
And either way, if your team is showing you it can't be effective when so reliant on threes, can't they adjust? Or are they somehow bound to an offensive system that poorly matches their skills?
And why are teams (not named DePaul and Seton Hall) shooting so well against MU's defense? More bad luck? Or have teams adjusted to what MU wants to do defensively?
Don't know.
No
Yes they can adjust
No but options are limited with this roster.
Because we are not a great defense without turnovers.
No.
They haven't had to. SHU and DPU got good looks too.
Yes, we're 20-7. It's about how we got there - 18-3, then 2-4. If we got to 20-7 by reversing those segments, there'd be a lot less bitching. People are seeing a trend and they don't like it. People are worried that it will continue.
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 08:17:39 AMso, roll with 20-7 because we must be good, we're 20-7? You watch the games, you can see the fade at this point. Games at UConn and home for StJ's aren't exactly looking like W's at this point. Shaka on the radio post-game...just by his tone I could tell he knows change is needed, but he seemed lost as to what. So, do nothing 'cause hey, we are 20-7?
There's no question the team is fading. It's obvious to anyone with eyes and a brain. I'm hopeful the guys can stop the bleeding but that's the fan in me, not the realist. The offense has been quiescent for weeks. The KenPom numbers are slipping with each game. The team is not set up for a long tourney run. That's my thought. You are certainly free to disagree.
[
Pitino put in 5 new plays? Pffft. Crean had a binder full of hundreds of plays.
For all of his great moments, David Joplin is one of the most maddening players to wear a Marquette uniform that I can remember.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 09:39:36 PMI'll likely be proven wrong in this situation, but the communication in this one doesn't make sense to me. Shaka says he's medically cleared, and will play when he's ready...which turns out to be next year???
It was left up to Sean to say he was ready to play. Sean made a better decision than Cadogan did. Makes no sense to comeback when the season over a 1/3 over.
Yes. They reached the go/no go date, and Sean did not feel 100%. Shaka addresed it at the time. Sean felt he lacked lateral mobility, was dodging the quick players on the other team in practice. And, Bryce Hopkins.
6 mote weeks have passed and he probably does feel better. But it isn't worth a year of eligibility to bring him back now.
Quote from: bradforster on February 22, 2025, 01:57:25 PMThere's no question the team is fading. It's obvious to anyone with eyes and a brain. I'm hopeful the guys can stop the bleeding but that's the fan in me, not the realist. The offense has been quiescent for weeks. The KenPom numbers are slipping with each game. The team is not set up for a long tourney run. That's my thought. You are certainly free to disagree.
I agree with you.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 22, 2025, 12:36:12 PMFan resilience? That's new one.
Anyhow, at what point should a coach say "this isn't working, maybe we need to adjust?"
Six weeks? Two months? A couple of seasons?
I'd always been under the impression that coaches should adjust as circumstances dictate, not based on an arbitrary timeline.
I'll take a swing at this one.
If by "adjust" you mean change an entire offensive system that had been working pretty darn well for 2 1/2 seasons, I seriously doubt Shaka (or most coaches) would even consider trying that 3 months into a season. It would be too all-encompassing, too difficult, to make such a sweeping change during a few practices.
If you mean adjusting the starting lineup and/or playing time, that's certainly something doable. Shaka did it during the Villanova game, and put out the word that he'll do more of it going forward if warranted.
Should Shaka have seen the team's 3-point woes coming and changed the system before the season? I don't know how he could have foreseen it. Kam was a career 38% 3-point shooter (and had lifted that to over 40% after the first 10 games this season). Joplin shot 40% as a sophomore and 36% as a junior. Gold was a career 36% shooter from 3. Ross shot 36% and had both health and a nice-looking shot to suggest he'd be even better. Shaka said Stevie's shooting had improved (which seemed to be true, given that Stevie was shooting 50% from 3 through Dec. 31), and Owens and Parham were reputedly good shooters.
And then we opened the season by hitting plenty of 3s, winning lots of games, and getting ranked in the top-5. So why would Shaka have even thought to change philosophy before early- to mid-January?
OK, so by mid-January it was starting to look like we might have a real problem. Again, not too many coaches are going to make a major overhaul at that point during a season, especially with the team still winning games. I think most coaches would say something like, "We're in a slump but are bound to get better shooting, especially from Kam Jones."
Defensively, I'm more inclined to think some adjustments could have been made and would have been easier to implement. Many have been discussed here. Not sure why Shaka hasn't tried a thing or three on that end.
Quote from: MU82 on February 22, 2025, 05:38:53 PMI'll take a swing at this one.
If by "adjust" you mean change an entire offensive system that had been working pretty darn well for 2 1/2 seasons, I seriously doubt Shaka (or most coaches) would even consider trying that 3 months into a season. It would be too all-encompassing, too difficult, to make such a sweeping change during a few practices.
Hyperbole again?
Nobody is suggesting the coaching staff scrap their entire offensive system. When people say "adjust," they mean exactly that:
"to change something slightly, especially to make it more correct, effective, or suitable"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/adjust
Like, after shooting 31% from three over the previous month (which would be good for 318th in the nation), they come out last night, and 5 of the first 7 shots are threes on the way to four points in the game's first 6:11.
Why stick with what clearly isn't working?
Quote from: Pakuni on February 22, 2025, 06:47:07 PMHyperbole again?
Nobody is suggesting the coaching staff scrap their entire offensive system. When people say "adjust," they mean exactly that:
"to change something slightly, especially to make it more correct, effective, or suitable"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/adjust
Like, after shooting 31% from three over the previous month (which would be good for 318th in the nation), they come out last night, and 5 of the first 7 shots are threes on the way to four points in the game's first 6:11.
Why stick with what clearly isn't working?
Because Nova was taking away drives and leaving (theoretically) good shooters open? I actually yelled, "Take it inside!" numerous times, but as I watched more closely there didn't seem to be a whole lot of lanes open to attack. Or maybe our guys were too impatient and/or didn't move enough - definitely a possibility. Or maybe Shaka has lost the ability to communicate what is necessary to the team.
I don't think it's the last one, but maybe it is.
I just watched his postgame presser. He was obviously disappointed in the effort and level of play from several players and, in his quiet public way, threatened changes. I'm guessing he's more upset about what's going on than you, me and the rest of Scoop.
And my post wasn't meant to be hyperbole at all. Many Scoopers seem to want major in-season changes.
Leadership from players is highly overrated.
It's the process that needs to be challenged, not the players. Teams in the Big East play bully ball. We would do better in the Evy League. Remember when our partners on the BOT wanted a team of student athletes?
Quote from: vogue65 on February 22, 2025, 08:59:24 PMLeadership from players is highly overrated.
It's the process that needs to be challenged, not the players. Teams in the Big East play bully ball. We would do better in the Evy League. Remember when our partners on the BOT wanted a team of student athletes?
Wut?
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 11:55:15 AMWhich doesn't work well when you can't shoot. The looks remain good, they just can't shoot and aren't just going to magically break out.
Gotta find ways to get to the basket, draw fouls.
5 out can be tough to guard, but it gets easier to guard when you wear it out and run the same constant motions out of the one set.
Get Royce more minutes to stretch the floor.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 23, 2025, 12:10:37 PMGet Royce more minutes to stretch the floor.
You mock, but it's true.
He is 1 of 4 players on the roster shooting over 30% from 3 in the Conference.
Zaide is at 55%
Ben is at 39%
Chase is at 36%
Royce is at 33%
That's it. In addition to that, Royce is their best offensive presence at the rim from a post perspective. Royce and Zaide should be getting more time early for that exact reason.
Quote from: bradforster on February 22, 2025, 01:57:25 PMThere's no question the team is fading. It's obvious to anyone with eyes and a brain. I'm hopeful the guys can stop the bleeding but that's the fan in me, not the realist. The offense has been quiescent for weeks. The KenPom numbers are slipping with each game. The team is not set up for a long tourney run. That's my thought. You are certainly free to disagree.
It's not personnel, or plays, rotation. It's the mindset that has changed from early in the season. We are not a three "making" team nor can rely on the three to save us. Just ask Illinois who is more in love with the three shot than us.....what can we learn from them?? Let's rewatch the Wisconsin game video.... 94' defense in second half, played for twos and sent people to the basket out rebounding a bigger team. We have way too much offense handing off and trying to slash from way outside with no cutters or people heading through to the basket. Offense is 4 guys on the perimeter and staying there. Can't get rebounds or second chances from first row seats. Can you say "Gold?" How can your big, 6' 11" get no rebounds in consecutive games??? How about assists from other than Kam??? Stevie has to not get trapped "under" the basket and try to force up a blockable shot. Someone's open somewhere, simple math. When are we going to act with some concentration when inbounding the ball?? Too much ball handling/dribbling by guys who have no business doing so...really.
Our play has digressed this season and unless the coaches begin to critically coach we'll be one and dones. Just venting. Bet Smart and the coaches don't touch base here....certainly not for advice or in ideas....
Quote from: axaguy on February 23, 2025, 04:29:44 PMIt's not personnel, or plays, rotation. It's the mindset that has changed from early in the season. We are not a three "making" team nor can rely on the three to save us. Just ask Illinois who is more in love with the three shot than us.....what can we learn from them?? Let's rewatch the Wisconsin game video.... 94' defense in second half, played for twos and sent people to the basket out rebounding a bigger team. We have way too much offense handing off and trying to slash from way outside with no cutters or people heading through to the basket. Offense is 4 guys on the perimeter and staying there. Can't get rebounds or second chances from first row seats. Can you say "Gold?" How can your big, 6' 11" get no rebounds in consecutive games??? How about assists from other than Kam??? Stevie has to not get trapped "under" the basket and try to force up a blockable shot. Someone's open somewhere, simple math. When are we going to act with some concentration when inbounding the ball?? Too much ball handling/dribbling by guys who have no business doing so...really.
Our play has digressed this season and unless the coaches begin to critically coach we'll be one and dones. Just venting. Bet Smart and the coaches don't touch base here....certainly not for advice or in ideas....
I'd be concerned if Shaka came here looking for advice
Quote from: Judge Smails on February 23, 2025, 06:26:19 PMI'd be concerned if Shaka came here looking for advice
Of course! But if he came here looking for laughs? He's in the right place.
Quote from: Judge Smails on February 23, 2025, 06:26:19 PMI'd be concerned if Shaka came here looking for advice
Wut? He has been taking our advice since day 1!