Make it happen and try to salvage the season.
Like wont matter because Kam as great as he is, simply has a broken shot but Zaide for Joplin gives us hope.
One guy is feeling it. The other guy is a joke. Defines senior leadership as launching up bricks until the game is lost.
He can be a Defensive sub.
Lowery is the future and the now. Joplin is the disappointment that needs the rear view.
Staff is too stubborn to make any adjustments. Not happening.
Or Zaide for Stevie
I'd like to see a lot more of Kam/Owens/Zaide/Chase and either Royce or Ben. Surround Kam with three wings who can shoot.
Those guys are all shooting the ball confidently. Stevie and Jop aren't.
I vote yes!
I would do it at this point. They need to do something to stop the slow starts. Some more energy would be helpful.
If stevie isn't healthy, start Zaide in his place and get stevie healthy
Quote from: GB Warrior on February 21, 2025, 07:47:09 PMOr Zaide for Stevie
Stevie looks like a mess right now too. But I love him too much. And he's still got the hustle and the heart and the intangibles
We cant be having a 6;8 guy with Jops shooting percentages while also being horrible off the bounce. Its killing us over and over again.
Because more time with Zaide on the floor has had great results :o
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 07:54:59 PMBecause more time with Zaide on the floor has had great results :o
Wut
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 21, 2025, 07:52:54 PMStevie looks like a mess right now too. But I love him too much. And he's still got the hustle and the heart and the intangibles
We cant be having a 6;8 guy with Jops shooting percentages while also being horrible off the bounce. Its killing us over and over again.
Stevie is a shell of himself. Honestly, it's probably health. Just let him sit and heal
We're not the same team we saw earlier this season. Kam's play is the biggest factor, but it's a collective mess right now from very experienced players. That's what's so discouraging.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 21, 2025, 07:57:13 PMWe're not the same team we saw earlier this season. Kam's play is the biggest factor, but it's a collective mess right now from very experienced players. That's what's so discouraging.
Kam definitely needs to play better, but he operates in space and he's had very little space with Jop and Stevie shooting like they have. It's time to switch it up.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 21, 2025, 07:56:17 PMWut
Have we had great results with Zaide getting more minutes? I don't think this is confusing.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 21, 2025, 07:57:08 PMStevie is a shell of himself. Honestly, it's probably health. Just let him sit and heal
I cant watch NC State Jop 80% of our games this year, any longer
The guy just doesn't have it. And has no intention on fixing it
Seton Hall should be his norm. Don't shoot.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 07:58:57 PMHave we had great results with Zaide getting more minutes? I don't think this is confusing.
He's a better defender than Joplin, and at this point is better offensively as well.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 21, 2025, 07:58:19 PMKam definitely needs to play better, but he operates in space and he's had very little space with Jop and Stevie shooting like they have. It's time to switch it up.
We could start ZL and RP but it would hurt defensively.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 21, 2025, 08:00:37 PMHe's a better defender than Joplin, and at this point is better offensively as well.
And yet, our record is worse as he gets more time.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 07:58:57 PMHave we had great results with Zaide getting more minutes? I don't think this is confusing.
No. But that's on the other guys. Zaide is playing well on both ends.
Like the dude has 22 and 8 to go along with good defense and 80% shooting. And his play has been getting progressively better for a month. He's our 2nd or 3rd best player right now.
What are we doing here? The team has been bad because Jop, Stevie and Ben have been bad.
If Mitchell is gonna play we might want to go small.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:01:49 PMAnd yet, our record is worse as he gets more time.
He's getting more time because they other guys are playing like crap. The other guys playing like crap is why we're sucking. Correlation not causation.
Shaka rarely changes starters unless there is an injury. Has happened once at MU. Kam and Omax swapped for a couple of games 4 years ago.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:01:49 PMAnd yet, our record is worse as he gets more time.
I guess but I don't think it's because of him. It's because our starters have sucked.
Zaide playing very solid hoops right now.
I really love how Shaka is like a 2nd dad to the players, but I hope he eventually becomes their coach and changes the starting lineup
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:01:49 PMAnd yet, our record is worse as he gets more time.
Because guys like Joplin continue to get too much time and get worse
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 21, 2025, 08:01:10 PMWe could start ZL and RP but it would hurt defensively.
Yeah it's get a little and give a little for sure.
But we're constantly in big holes to start games. That's mostly because three of our starters have been bad for a month. Gotta do something new.
I think Kam/Chase/Zaide/Owens/Ben gives you four solid defenders to cover for Owens on that end. And Parham is improving.
Stevie and Jop coming off the bench in specialized roles might jump start them too.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 21, 2025, 08:02:04 PMNo. But that's on the other guys. Zaide is playing well on both ends.
Zaide *has* to be one of our best players next year. I like the kid. But...
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 21, 2025, 08:01:10 PMWe could start ZL and RP but it would hurt defensively.
????????
Quote from: BM1090 on February 21, 2025, 08:05:02 PMYeah it's get a little and give a little for sure.
But we're constantly in big holes to start games. That's mostly because three of our starters have been bad for a month. Gotta do something new.
I think Kam/Chase/Zaide/Owens/Ben gives you four solid defenders to cover for Owens on that end. And Parham is improving.
Stevie and Jop coming off the bench in specialized roles might jump start them too.
I'm gonna give Stevie the benefit of the doubt. He's been key in all of our big wins. But Lowery is a very capable rebounder and we can play small. My leash and patience with Jop and Ben right now is fairly small. The overall point you made is important because if teams do not respect Jop and Stevie, the spacing and geometry of our offense is a problem.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 21, 2025, 08:05:57 PM????????
Jop and Ben have been for the most part okay defensively. ZL is still undersized if he's gonna play F and RP isn't there yet.
Jop has been TERRIBLE off ball defensively. He's been bad most of his career here, but almost inexlicably has gotten worse.
NOw the potential(as it looks) for legit injury would change things a bit.
But if Stevie is feeling fine I don't bench him. He's been a full time starter for 3 years now. We can win with Stevie as a starter if he's the complimentary glue guy.
The issue is, Jop and Ben and to an extent Chase/Kam are making it so Stevie is expected more.
Its Jop that needs to be first to bench. Guess where he's excelled before??? 6th man. Its not hard. Guy is launching bricks all year its not a slump. Its 27 games of data.
Seems like a Shaka fault to not make starting lineup changes.
3 new starters next season.
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 08:19:14 PM3 new starters next season.
Gonna be a loooong year next year too, but without the high of the non-con season. yay?
I am positively giddy about next season.
Yeah I'm pumped about next year. I think we'll be better than this year if we get solid PG play.
I think for the rest of this year, Zaide for Jop is where I'd start. Jop as sixth man. Leave Stevie and Ben in there for now but their roles shouldn't be safe.
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 08:21:55 PMI am positively giddy about next season.
Last year it was easy to look at the games kolek was out, and say "we'll be just fine".
Hopefully others will step up, but I don't have that same feeling about Kam and Stevie being gone next year.
Will be watching intently regardless...
I like subbing out Jop, might give us a boost off the bench. Don't think shaka has the guts to do it. I thought Jop was much improved on D this year but have not looked at the stats. This, if true, would not offset his brick laying. We need a big and a shooter next year from the portal. Great to see the young guys get clock.
Jop's D gets worse when he's bricking. His off the ball D has been quite poor the last month.
Quote from: Captain Quette on February 21, 2025, 08:28:54 PMI like subbing out Jop, might give us a boost off the bench. Don't think shaka has the guts to do it. I thought Jop was much improved on D this year but have not looked at the stats. This, if true, would not offset his brick laying. We need a big and a shooter next year from the portal. Great to see the young guys get clock.
Jop has improved as an on-ball defender. But he is late on rotations and repeatedly loses track of guys when his guy doesn't have the ball. Really not very instinctive at all.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:25:25 PMLast year it was easy to look at the games kolek was out, and say "we'll be just fine".
Hopefully others will step up, but I don't have that same feeling about Kam and Stevie being gone next year.
Will be watching intently regardless...
It's very difficult to be optimistic about our chances this year but nothing is over.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 21, 2025, 08:31:48 PMIt's very difficult to be optimistic about our chances this year but nothing is over.
I'm still rooting for them to win it all this year!
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 08:21:55 PMI am positively giddy about next season.
Wish I could share your optimism but lately I'm seeing nothing that gives me much hope. Hopefully the freshmen can bring shooting but can't rely on freshman.
I have watched 6-10 the last two games compared to where they were a month ago and I am salivating.
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 08:38:16 PMI have watched 6-10 the last two games compared to where they were a month ago and I am salivating.
Yep. It's 1-5, and particularly 3-5 that needs to get it together.
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 08:38:16 PMI have watched 6-10 the last two games compared to where they were a month ago and I am salivating.
I'm pretty certain that's a medical condition.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 21, 2025, 08:30:20 PMJop's D gets worse when he's bricking. His off the ball D has been quite poor the last month.
No bueno for a senior to let poor performance on one end affect him on the other.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:21:09 PMGonna be a loooong year next year too, but without the high of the non-con season. yay?
Wrong.
BTW, really like Owens' effort defensively today. Hopefully his offense can come around too.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 07:58:57 PMHave we had great results with Zaide getting more minutes? I don't think this is confusing.
What do you think Jop does better than Xaide? And newdlash - guys getting sporadic minutes isn't it indicative of what they'll do if they play big minutes, when said player is talented - like Zaide. Derrick Wilson? Not so much.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 21, 2025, 08:46:53 PMJop does better than Xaide? And newdlash
newdlash: Jop does everything better than Xaide.
Zaide had a nice game. Better than Jop in this particular instance. Shaka has said Jop can be one of the best in the country, he needs to get him there.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:45:18 PMHopefully. Not optimistic at all.
I'm curious - do you not see big upside in Zaide, Parham, and Owens?
I agree there are plenty of questions for next season but I also see a nice ceiling.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:48:07 PMShaka has said Jop can be one of the best in the country, he needs to get him there.
It's February 21 of his senior year.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 21, 2025, 08:54:37 PMIt's February 21 of his senior year.
Haha I actually had the same thought
Quote from: The Sultan on February 21, 2025, 08:54:37 PMIt's February 21 of his senior year.
I'm not disagreeing, but if Zaide becomes a Marquette hero in April 2025, I'll rename the site ZaideScoop.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 21, 2025, 08:50:30 PMI'm curious - do you not see big upside in Zaide, Parham, and Owens?
I agree there are plenty of questions for next season but I also see a nice ceiling.
I guess? I don't know, I guess I'm just down on the team with how they've been playing. I hope like hell the optimists are correct and I'm wrong.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 21, 2025, 08:54:37 PMIt's February 21 of his senior year.
Yep. Can't tank the season because you're expecting a guy who hasn't figured it out in 125 games to figure it out in 130.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:56:27 PMI'm not disagreeing, but if Zaide becomes a Marquette hero in April 2025, I'll rename the site ZaideScoop.
I don't think we need him to be a hero. But he might be a better option to start at this point. He is a better off ball defender than Jop and, after tonight, leads the team in EFG.
Has anyone else noticed that we have looked super tight over the past month? A lot of hesitation or rushed shots as well as indecisiveness in general. I'm completely lost about this to tell you the truth.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 21, 2025, 08:59:27 PMI don't think we need him to be a hero. But he might be a better option to start at this point. He is a better off ball defender than Jop and, after tonight, leads the team in EFG.
With less usage. I don't really believe Shaka will demote Seniors at this point in his tenure.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 09:00:58 PMWith less usage. I don't really believe Shaka will demote Seniors at this point in his tenure.
You are right. He probably won't.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 21, 2025, 09:01:52 PMYou are right. He probably won't.
I'd also argue (since nobody has claimed Jop is hurt), Jop is better with a good Kam. good Stevie, and good Ben.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:48:07 PMnewdlash: Jop does everything better than Xaide.
Zaide had a nice game. Better than Jop in this particular instance. Shaka has said Jop can be one of the best in the country, he needs to get him there.
Shaka has gone to the wall for Jop to build and instill confidence. Jop is giving him little choice but to have his minutes massively cut.
But, you're wrong. Zaide is a better shoooter, better defender, better athlete, and not a ball stopper on offense. Doesn't mean Jop doesn't have an important place on this team, but that likely is in a 6th man role. The bench is the best motivator, and it may be time for Shaka to employ some benchings.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 21, 2025, 09:11:25 PMThe bench is the best motivator, and it may be time for Shaka to employ some benchings.
Perhaps this is changing as the year goes along, but the bench (statistically) has been MUCH worse than the starters.
Like you, I'm high on Zaide (and moreso Chase) for the future.
I don't really care to watch Jop. But zaide's offense before tonight was equal to tre's.
This is very very short sighted.
Go with Royce
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 09:14:12 PMPerhaps this is changing as the year goes along, but the bench (statistically) has been MUCH worse than the starters.
Like you, I'm high on Zaide (and moreso Chase) for the future.
Stats are good to an extent but it really is comparing apples to oranges how guys who have clearly defined roles and consistent playing time play, versus a role player who comes in for spotty, inconsistent minutes. And season long stats can't define the trend - the recent Paint Touches piece does that best - and its clear Zaide is ascending. I think Royce can take another step yet this season too.
I've been on the Zaide train since early last year, so perhaps I'm a little biased in the sense I've liked him from the drop - but it seems he's found some footing and confidence and the results are following. His shot form/arc/rotation are the best on the team, IMO. I think eventually he'll do well slashing to the basket too.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 21, 2025, 09:18:31 PMI don't really care to watch Jop. But zaide's offense before tonight was equal to tre's.
Uh..what?
Zaide has been clearly better than Tre offensively for the past month.
JFP hates Jop.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 21, 2025, 09:20:01 PMStats are good to an extent but it really is comparing apples to oranges how guys who have clearly defined roles and consistent playing time play, versus a role player who comes in for spotty, inconsistent minutes. And season long stats can't define the trend - the recent Paint Touches piece does that best - and its clear Zaide is ascending. I think Royce can take another step yet this season too.
I've been on the Zaide train since early last year, so perhaps I'm a little biased in the sense I've liked him from the drop - but it seems he's found some footing and confidence and the results are following. His shot form/arc/rotation are the best on the team, IMO. I think eventually he'll do well slashing to the basket too.
Already improving going to the rim off the dribble. You can also see his confidence soaring.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 21, 2025, 09:18:31 PMI don't really care to watch Jop. But zaide's offense before tonight was equal to tre's.
This is very very short sighted.
Go with Royce
Huh? Usually agree with most of your takes, but feel you really miss the mark on Zaide. 129 O-Rating, 44% from 3, and 63.6 eFG. And yes, tonight happened and is part of the body of work.
Conference only he's shooting 54% from 3. 70% eFG, and a 146.9 O-Rating. Far cry from Tre.
Zaide's performance was SOTG all the way if we won. Give him more minutes when others aren't performing up to level.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:48:07 PMnewdlash: Jop does everything better than Xaide.
Zaide had a nice game. Better than Jop in this particular instance. Shaka has said Jop can be one of the best in the country, he needs to get him there.
We have like 6 games left
Shaka said that like two years ago
Jop clearly is not who shaka thought he could be
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:25:25 PMLast year it was easy to look at the games kolek was out, and say "we'll be just fine".
Hopefully others will step up, but I don't have that same feeling about Kam and Stevie being gone next year.
Will be watching intently regardless...
In current form, not much to replace next year.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 21, 2025, 09:29:18 PMShaka said that like two years ago
And when has Shaka backed down from what he has said? Parham is next up.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 21, 2025, 09:18:31 PMI don't really care to watch Jop. But zaide's offense before tonight was equal to tre's.
This is very very short sighted.
Go with Royce
Well you're living in a fantasy land
Zaide entered tonight at 44/37.
Batshit comment
I would think if you were trying to do something about the slow starts then you'd have to at least try and make some changes to the starting lineup. Happened too many times to ignore at this point.
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 08:38:16 PMI have watched 6-10 the last two games compared to where they were a month ago and I am salivating.
Agree, there is something interesting going on. There is upside there. I'm way more optimistic than a month ago about next year.
But hope this year can still be fixed. And I hope everyone gives Kam, Stevie and Jop their due even if things don't pan out. Lots of good memories and hopefully a few more to come.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 21, 2025, 09:23:27 PMHuh? Usually agree with most of your takes, but feel you really miss the mark on Zaide. 129 O-Rating, 44% from 3, and 63.6 eFG. And yes, tonight happened and is part of the body of work.
Conference only he's shooting 54% from 3. 70% eFG, and a 146.9 O-Rating. Far cry from Tre.
When your usage is nearly in the single digits it doesn't matter at all.
Adjusted team O rating with Norman on the court 111.0. With Lowery on the court 111.6.
Based on play of the last month, yes Zaide should start and Jop should go back to the sixth man role. Zaide is coming on strong, rebounds well, and plays good defense. And, oh yeah, he can shoot. I also hope Parham and Owens continue to get major minutes. At this point, the rest of this season is about next year. This team is not going very far in the tournament.
Zaide is playing well. I asked Muggsy in another thread, I will ask it here. How many high major teams are successful starting 4 players 6'5 and under? Because Zaide for Joplin is actually advocating for 4 guards with Ben as the only size. Play that back in your head a few times.
If Joplin is replaced (not gonna happen), it has to be with Royce. If you want to give Stevie a week off (NBA style load management), then start Zaide.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 09:07:42 AMZaide is playing well. I asked Muggsy in another thread, I will ask it here. How many high major teams are successful starting 4 players 6'5 and under? Because Zaide for Joplin is actually advocating for 4 guards with Ben as the only size. Play that back in your head a few times.
If Joplin is replaced (not gonna happen), it has to be with Royce. If you want to give Stevie a week off (NBA style load management), then start Zaide.
Agreed. And it's all about playing time. Jop should have a short leash. If he is playing well keep him in. If not go to Parnham earlier and give him extended minutes. Same with Stevie and Zaide. Allocate playing time based on production going forward but you can still keep the same starters.
Leaves us pretty undersized with Ben only our height. Seems a bit rough since Ben is well....
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 09:07:42 AMZaide is playing well. I asked Muggsy in another thread, I will ask it here. How many high major teams are successful starting 4 players 6'5 and under? Because Zaide for Joplin is actually advocating for 4 guards with Ben as the only size. Play that back in your head a few times.
If Joplin is replaced (not gonna happen), it has to be with Royce. If you want to give Stevie a week off (NBA style load management), then start Zaide.
Nova went 32-4 starting Brunson, Bridges, Hart, Jenkins, and Reynolds. They won the National title the year prior starting guys who were 6'3", 6'3," 6'5," 6'6", and 6'11".
Jop was playing well defending 4s earlier in the season and rebounding well. He's been awful lately. Zaide is a much better rebound of late than Jop has been. And Nova didn't win the game pounding the paint against us. It's our perimeter defense that is killing us.
Yup. That one time it worked at Villanova is proof MU should try it now.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 21, 2025, 09:23:27 PMHuh? Usually agree with most of your takes, but feel you really miss the mark on Zaide. 129 O-Rating, 44% from 3, and 63.6 eFG. And yes, tonight happened and is part of the body of work.
Conference only he's shooting 54% from 3. 70% eFG, and a 146.9 O-Rating. Far cry from Tre.
careful when you use advanced stats without large sample sizes. Remember that Matt Heldt was the number 1 orating player in the country.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 22, 2025, 10:34:04 AMNova went 32-4 starting Brunson, Bridges, Hart, Jenkins, and Reynolds. They won the National title the year prior starting guys who were 6'3", 6'3," 6'5," 6'6", and 6'11".
Jop was playing well defending 4s earlier in the season and rebounding well. He's been awful lately. Zaide is a much better rebound of late than Jop has been. And Nova didn't win the game pounding the paint against us. It's our perimeter defense that is killing us.
My worry about going small is forcing Ben into having to play big.
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2025, 08:38:16 PMI have watched 6-10 the last two games compared to where they were a month ago and I am salivating.
why? Not being snarky...rather, your assessment for being so positive on 6-10.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 10:44:35 AMYup. That one time it worked at Villanova is proof MU should try it now.
I mean....you asked the question and he answered it.
Shaka alluded to some lineup changes at the end of his press conference so we'll see what that means. Providence kind of sucks so it might be hard to take anything away from that game (I got duped into thinking we turned the corner after DP and SH lol).
As far as Jop goes, I think Shaka tried to push him past what he was really capable of in terms of his role on the team and it just backfired and overall shook his confidence this year. To a lesser extent, I'd say the same of Kam and Gold as well as both have been asked to take on significantly different/larger roles this year. Shaka preaches being "stars in your role" constantly. I'd argue that they all kind of were at one point in their career. He just changed the roles this year and they haven't been able to fully adjust or be as effective.
With Ben, Zaide, Chase, Owen's, and Parnham next year.....this seems to me just a .500 team with no bench either. Last few years we had Tyler and Oso, 2 nba players. This year Kam, fringe NBA player. Next year we do not have any of the elite players. Plus Tre and Hamilton should be playing in the MAC. Shaka has to know he needs help from the portal and for God's sake get some frickin shooters. How can shaka watch any basketball game and not understand the value of 3 pt shooting. I am frustrated as you can see.
Quote from: Captain Quette on February 22, 2025, 11:06:17 AMParnham
I've seen this too often - and I don't think it's a joke. There's no 'N' in his last name.
Quote from: Captain Quette on February 22, 2025, 11:06:17 AMOwen's
And no apostrophe there, but simple mistake.
I see an 8 player rotation of Chase, Royce, DO, Ben, Zaide, Hamilton, Tre, Sean with another offseason of growth and development and I feel like MU is far ahead of the game. Anything from Clark or Amadou and suddenly MU is long. Anything from the freshman class and suddenly MU is deep.
Assuming all return, I am nearly giddy at the possibilities.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 22, 2025, 11:11:05 AMI've seen this too often - and I don't think it's a joke. There's no 'N' in his last name.
And no apostrophe there, but simple mistake.
iPhone always autocorrects to Owen's. It's really annoying
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 11:12:22 AMI see an 8 player rotation of Chase, Royce, DO, Ben, Zaide, Hamilton, Tre, Sean with another offseason of growth and development and I feel like MU is far ahead of the game. Anything from Clark or Amadou and suddenly MU is long. Anything from the freshman class and suddenly MU is deep.
Assuming all return, I am nearly giddy at the possibilities.
The freshmen are going to have to contribute for that team to be anything
hope we don't see any transfers because Shaka refuses to sit his struggling seniors more...
https://x.com/coachajkings/status/1893087809457562045 (https://x.com/coachajkings/status/1893087809457562045)
Shaka and Izzo have mutual respect for one another, but perhaps different philosophies here.
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 22, 2025, 11:27:22 AMhope we don't see any transfers because Shaka refuses to sit his struggling seniors more...
Lowery, Owens and Parham played as much or more than 3 of the 5 starters yesterday. Gold, Joplin and Mitchell had season lows in minutes.
Yes, like Izzo, Shaka was rewarding the hard work and production in the game last night. And sitting those who were not performing.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 11:12:22 AMI see an 8 player rotation of Chase, Royce, DO, Ben, Zaide, Hamilton, Tre, Sean with another offseason of growth and development and I feel like MU is far ahead of the game. Anything from Clark or Amadou and suddenly MU is long. Anything from the freshman class and suddenly MU is deep.
Assuming all return, I am nearly giddy at the possibilities.
assuming all return and no portal addition, that's probably 6th or 7th-ish in the BE, imo. If recruiting and portal trends continue as they have...and considering the respective coaches...StJ, UConn, Creighton, Gtown, and X are probably better than MU next year. Conjecture, of course. (I think we'll agree MU was fortunate to win this year at X, at DeP and get CU at the Fiserv when they didn't have Kalk. I'll take good fortunate all day every day, but our team this season could easily be Villanova)
Once again, we differ. No biggie.
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 11:38:59 AMassuming all return and no portal addition, that's probably 6th or 7th-ish in the BE, imo. If recruiting and portal trends continue as they have...and considering the respective coaches...StJ, UConn, Creighton, Gtown, and X are probably better than MU next year. Conjecture, of course. (I think we'll agree MU was fortunate to win this year at X, at DeP and get CU at the Fiserv when they didn't have Kalk. I'll take good fortunate all day every day, but our team this season could easily be Villanova)
I hope Clark can play, Hamilton is slow and soft and Ben is Ben. Need to bring in a physical forward or center
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 22, 2025, 11:45:16 AMI hope Clark can play, Hamilton is slow and soft and Ben is Ben. Need to bring in a physical forward or center
Hamilton has some limitations but I don't see being "soft" as one of them.
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 22, 2025, 11:27:22 AMhope we don't see any transfers because Shaka refuses to sit his struggling seniors more...
::)
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 11:38:59 AMassuming all return and no portal addition, that's probably 6th or 7th-ish in the BE, imo. If recruiting and portal trends continue as they have...and considering the respective coaches...StJ, UConn, Creighton, Gtown, and X are probably better than MU next year. Conjecture, of course. (I think we'll agree MU was fortunate to win this year at X, at DeP and get CU at the Fiserv when they didn't have Kalk. I'll take good fortunate all day every day, but our team this season could easily be Villanova)
Kalk played 33 minutes against us at Fiserv and went 4/11 from the field.
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 11:38:59 AMassuming all return and no portal addition, that's probably 6th or 7th-ish in the BE, imo. If recruiting and portal trends continue as they have...and considering the respective coaches...StJ, UConn, Creighton, Gtown, and X are probably better than MU next year. Conjecture, of course. (I think we'll agree MU was fortunate to win this year at X, at DeP and get CU at the Fiserv when they didn't have Kalk. I'll take good fortunate all day every day, but our team this season could easily be Villanova)
This sounds like lots of folks at this stage of the 2021-22 season. Kolek couldn't shoot, Oso and Stevie were offensive liabilities, OMax was mostly good at falling down, Kam and Joplin were freshmen who might or might not be any good, our recruiting class was not highly touted. Indeed, the following fall, we were predicted to finish 9th in the Big East.
Which of course led to ... F%ck 'em!
I am NOT predicting that we'll win the Big East next season as we did in 2022-23, but I just don't see it as being a "we are doomed" situation. I guess we'll see!
Quote from: rgoode57 on February 22, 2025, 09:02:29 AMBased on play of the last month, yes Zaide should start and Jop should go back to the sixth man role. Zaide is coming on strong, rebounds well, and plays good defense. And, oh yeah, he can shoot. I also hope Parham and Owens continue to get major minutes. At this point, the rest of this season is about next year. This team is not going very far in the tournament.
High-level coaches simply don't think like this - especially coaches of ranked, 20-win teams that are locks for the NCAA Tournament.
We can debate the merits of what you're saying. For example, one could counter-argue that the development of next season's team will take place in the summer, early fall and then into the season, not in a few games at the end of this one.
But I'm just telling you that Shaka Smart doesn't think the way you're talking about. No coach of any NCAA Tournament-bound team does. Period.
Quote from: MU82 on February 22, 2025, 12:31:58 PMHigh-level coaches simply don't think like this - especially coaches of ranked, 20-win teams that are locks for the NCAA Tournament.
We can debate the merits of what you're saying. For example, one could counter-argue that the development of next season's team will take place in the summer, early fall and then into the season, not in a few games at the end of this one.
But I'm just telling you that Shaka Smart doesn't think the way you're talking about. No coach of any NCAA Tournament-bound team does. Period.
I think your caveat of being a tournament-bound team makes your statement correct, but I also wonder how the NIL world might change things. This is likely a time of year when players are thinking about their future. If they see the guy(s) ahead of them struggling and the coach doesn't really give them a chance to shine, might they be more inclined to listen to their ego and the dudes in their ears and consider, "Hmm, maybe I can do more and make more elsewhere? Maybe this coach is showing loyalty more than commitment to quality? I'm sure I can do and be better than what I'm seeing." In these times, players may not be willing to be patient enough and confident enough to believe that their time will come in the program they are in. MU and Shaka may remain a program where the culture really runs deep and guys trust that their development will result in opportunity, but NIL and instant transfer allow for people to presume and go and see if the grass is indeed greener.
What will the NIL look like going forward? With fewer 6th year seniors available? Schools on the hook? 5 years of eligibility? Conference realignment?
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 11:38:59 AMassuming all return and no portal addition, that's probably 6th or 7th-ish in the BE, imo. If recruiting and portal trends continue as they have...and considering the respective coaches...StJ, UConn, Creighton, Gtown, and X are probably better than MU next year. Conjecture, of course. (I think we'll agree MU was fortunate to win this year at X, at DeP and get CU at the Fiserv when they didn't have Kalk. I'll take good fortunate all day every day, but our team this season could easily be Villanova)
1. Kalk had 16 and 12 in the game in Milwaukee.
2. Look what the other teams are losing too.
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 11:38:59 AMassuming all return and no portal addition, that's probably 6th or 7th-ish in the BE, imo. If recruiting and portal trends continue as they have...and considering the respective coaches...StJ, UConn, Creighton, Gtown, and X are probably better than MU next year. Conjecture, of course. (I think we'll agree MU was fortunate to win this year at X, at DeP and get CU at the Fiserv when they didn't have Kalk. I'll take good fortunate all day every day, but our team this season could easily be Villanova)
Creighton?
Lol. What?
Quote from: mug644 on February 22, 2025, 02:11:42 PMI think your caveat of being a tournament-bound team makes your statement correct, but I also wonder how the NIL world might change things. This is likely a time of year when players are thinking about their future. If they see the guy(s) ahead of them struggling and the coach doesn't really give them a chance to shine, might they be more inclined to listen to their ego and the dudes in their ears and consider, "Hmm, maybe I can do more and make more elsewhere? Maybe this coach is showing loyalty more than commitment to quality? I'm sure I can do and be better than what I'm seeing." In these times, players may not be willing to be patient enough and confident enough to believe that their time will come in the program they are in. MU and Shaka may remain a program where the culture really runs deep and guys trust that their development will result in opportunity, but NIL and instant transfer allow for people to presume and go and see if the grass is indeed greener.
Why would you think there are going to be big money NIL opportunities for our bench guys? Guys that are now seeing their minutes increase and know that there will be a ton of minutes available next season with 3 starters graduating?
The scenario you created just doesn't make much sense.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2025, 02:21:52 PMWhat will the NIL look like going forward? With fewer 6th year seniors available? Schools on the hook? 5 years of eligibility? Conference realignment?
Tower, I've seen you mention 5 years of eligibility a few times, but I don't recall hearing elsewhere that that is being considered? Beyond the adaptations made for covid, is that a change that might be made?
At the start of the year, stories started coming out that the NCAA was considering a change to 5 years of eligibility. Still in the discussion stage, I think.
Here is how it might have benefited MU this season. It would essentially do away with the red shirt season. You have a 5 year window. You can be eligible all 5 years. For MU this season, it would mean that Clark and Amadou would have been eligible all season. Most interestingly, it would take away the decision about whether to have Sean come back this season. He comes back when he is ready and it does not affect the 5 year window.
It is far from a done deal.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 22, 2025, 03:29:27 PMWhy would you think there are going to be big money NIL opportunities for our bench guys? Guys that are now seeing their minutes increase and know that there will be a ton of minutes available next season with 3 starters graduating?
The scenario you created just doesn't make much sense.
I wasn't exclusively talking about Marquette, as MU82's comment was that no tournament bound coach looks ahead to next season. I'm wondering if, in the new world of NIL, players might be more tempted to be thinking about their options for next if they feel their coach isn't giving them opportunities in the current year, especially if the guy(s) ahead of them are not performing as expected and needed. And my thinking is not about "big money NIL opportunities."
That said, as mentioned in various threads, some of this year's bench players for MU could surely be wondering how the chips will fall next year. Yes, 3 key guys are graduating, but there will be competition for playing time. I hesitate to mention names, but folks have noted that Tre, Hamilton and Al will be third year players (in the program for 3 years) but will not have clear paths to assured, high minutes next year. None will have big money opportunities, but might the instant eligibility transfer and NIL world present them with options to consider? On the other hand, as shown last night, does the fact that Shaka is seeming to give them opportunities to step up when starters aren't holding their own help them have faith that they will, as long-term members of the program, have "advantages" over newcomers?
Honestly, I'm just thinking aloud, not stating an opinion nor making any predictions. As for making sense, that would be nice, but it's never guaranteed with me.
Quote from: mug644 on February 22, 2025, 02:11:42 PMI think your caveat of being a tournament-bound team makes your statement correct, but I also wonder how the NIL world might change things. This is likely a time of year when players are thinking about their future. If they see the guy(s) ahead of them struggling and the coach doesn't really give them a chance to shine, might they be more inclined to listen to their ego and the dudes in their ears and consider, "Hmm, maybe I can do more and make more elsewhere? Maybe this coach is showing loyalty more than commitment to quality? I'm sure I can do and be better than what I'm seeing." In these times, players may not be willing to be patient enough and confident enough to believe that their time will come in the program they are in. MU and Shaka may remain a program where the culture really runs deep and guys trust that their development will result in opportunity, but NIL and instant transfer allow for people to presume and go and see if the grass is indeed greener.
I doubt this factors into Shaka's thinking one iota as to who gets how much playing time the rest of this season.
Unlike fans, coaches of NCAAT-bound teams do not think a season like ours is a lost cause.
And I doubt we have players who are thinking about future NIL opportunities during games.
Quote from: mug644 on February 22, 2025, 03:30:01 PMTower, I've seen you mention 5 years of eligibility a few times, but I don't recall hearing elsewhere that that is being considered? Beyond the adaptations made for covid, is that a change that might be made?
Here is an article. It is a serious topic of discussion for a rule change. The idea is to eliminate waivers and the need for redshirts. No formal proposal at this point but it's more than just a topic thrown out by the media.
https://sports.yahoo.com/college-sports-leaders-mulling-5-in-5-rule-to-eliminate-redshirts-waivers-and-other-exemptions-211750014.html
I agree w Viper on our prospects next year. I hope we do have a few transfers to open up some roster spots. If there are players going into their 3rd year and no clear path to minutes is established, than shaka should be having serious discussions about their fit w MU. It can't be hugs all the time. Not every player is cut out for high level I basketball. The portal can provide "proven" players. Shaka needs to get the best roster possible in place.
Quote from: MU82 on February 22, 2025, 12:25:01 PMThis sounds like lots of folks at this stage of the 2021-22 season. Kolek couldn't shoot, Oso and Stevie were offensive liabilities, OMax was mostly good at falling down, Kam and Joplin were freshmen who might or might not be any good, our recruiting class was not highly touted. Indeed, the following fall, we were predicted to finish 9th in the Big East.
Which of course led to ... F%ck 'em!
I am NOT predicting that we'll win the Big East next season as we did in 2022-23, but I just don't see it as being a "we are doomed" situation. I guess we'll see!
I'm not going with 'we are doomed' either, just do not feel as confident as Tower.
Zaide has earned a chance to start.....
Joplin has earned the bench.....
Shaka should do what is best for the team.....
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 22, 2025, 03:23:55 PMCreighton?
Lol. What?
LOL? I don't follow. I never wanted Creighton in the BE for a number of reasons...but have to admit they are good seemingly every year. I don't anticipate that being any different next season despite losing Kalkbrenner to eligibility.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 22, 2025, 03:12:31 PM1. Kalk had 16 and 12 in the game in Milwaukee.
2. Look what the other teams are losing too.
my error on the Creighton game here. I did look at other rosters, recruiting commits, and made assumptions on the portal based on recent transfer activity.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 22, 2025, 11:11:05 AMI've seen this too often - and I don't think it's a joke. There's no 'N' in his last name.
And no apostrophe there, but simple mistake.
I'll take Ramsey for a $100.00 Alex
Quote from: junglecat022 on February 22, 2025, 11:28:07 AMhttps://x.com/coachajkings/status/1893087809457562045 (https://x.com/coachajkings/status/1893087809457562045)
Shaka and Izzo have mutual respect for one another, but perhaps different philosophies here.
Starting no matta
It has been a really rough stretch but some of these reactions regarding transfers and the portal are comical.
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 05:01:10 PMLOL? I don't follow. I never wanted Creighton in the BE for a number of reasons...but have to admit they are good seemingly every year. I don't anticipate that being any different next season despite losing Kalkbrenner to eligibility.
Who did you want instead of Creighton?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 21, 2025, 08:56:27 PMI'm not disagreeing, but if Zaide becomes a Marquette hero in April 2025, I'll rename the site ZaideScoop.
Will our subscriptions carry over, or is this just a plot to get more fees out of us?
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 05:01:10 PMLOL? I don't follow. I never wanted Creighton in the BE for a number of reasons...but have to admit they are good seemingly every year. I don't anticipate that being any different next season despite losing Kalkbrenner to eligibility.
Marquette has been pretty dang good every year Shaka has been here too. But you think we'll fall off the cliff losing 3 players that are worse than the 2 we lost last year for some reason.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 21, 2025, 08:01:10 PMWe could start ZL and RP but it would hurt defensively.
Our defense sucks'
No rim protector and no defensive rebounding
Quote from: drbob on February 23, 2025, 11:40:56 AMNo rim protector and no defensive rebounding
Per Torvik, Zaide is now our best rebounder and has the highest offensive rating.
⬆️
Quote from: wadesworld on February 23, 2025, 10:32:39 AMMarquette has been pretty dang good every year Shaka has been here too. But you think we'll fall off the cliff losing 3 players that are worse than the 2 we lost last year for some reason.
I never stated 'fall off a cliff'. Just not sold on what's behind what's being lost, primarily Kam and Stevie, less so Jop. But we'll have 'very good' (your words) Ben Gold, so there's that.
I Don't get the focus on starting.....ZL played more minutes than Jop on Friday. Starting no matta.
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 23, 2025, 11:58:20 AMI Don't get the focus on starting.....ZL played more minutes than Jop on Friday. Starting no matta.
Yes. Joplin, Stevie, Gold all played a season low in minutes. Zaide, Parham, DO all played comparatively more. I am glad the bench has finally developed so that is an option.
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 23, 2025, 11:58:20 AMI Don't get the focus on starting.....ZL played more minutes than Jop on Friday. Starting no matta.
Given how poorly we have started for the past few weeks, it actually might.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 23, 2025, 12:02:15 PMGiven how poorly we have started for the past few weeks, it actually might.
Correct.
Quote from: tower912 on February 23, 2025, 12:01:35 PMYes. Joplin, Stevie, Gold all played a season low in minutes. Zaide, Parham, DO all played comparatively more. I am glad the bench has finally developed so that is an option.
Has the bench really developed? We were never competitive in the game regardless of who played.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 23, 2025, 12:05:09 PMHas the bench really developed? We were never competitive in the game regardless of who played.
Yes the bench has developed. You can't play all of them at once but they can definitely play better now than at the beginning of the year.
The problem is our starters are underperforming as a group.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 23, 2025, 12:05:09 PMHas the bench really developed? We were never competitive in the game regardless of who played.
That's because they were down double digits before they even got a chance.
Yes. Zaide, Royce, and Owens are a good enough 3 off the bench for us to make noise. It comes down to the starters finding their competitiveness again.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 23, 2025, 12:02:15 PMGiven how poorly we have started for the past few weeks, it actually might.
seems to be a bigger issue than replacing one starter.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 23, 2025, 12:06:37 PMYes the bench has developed. You can't play all of them at once but they can definitely play better now than at the beginning of the year.
The problem is our starters are underperforming as a group.
Agree with the last part.
Quote from: Viper on February 23, 2025, 11:52:14 AMI never stated 'fall off a cliff'. Just not sold on what's behind what's being lost, primarily Kam and Stevie, less so Jop. But we'll have 'very good' (your words) Ben Gold, so there's that.
Sorry, there is not that.
Quote from: Viper on February 22, 2025, 05:01:10 PMLOL? I don't follow. I never wanted Creighton in the BE for a number of reasons...but have to admit they are good seemingly every year. I don't anticipate that being any different next season despite losing Kalkbrenner to eligibility.
We've been good every year since Shaka got here and you anticipate we won't be
Quote from: The Sultan on February 23, 2025, 08:06:46 AMWho did you want instead of Creighton?
Creighton has worked out, but at the time I preferred an east coast school located in a major market. Temple was one. Solid basketball pedigree and already a cross-city rivalry w/nova. If Midwest, based solely on market, St Louis. But CU has done a great job in the BE, so all-good.
Quote from: Viper on February 23, 2025, 09:33:47 PMCreighton has worked out, but at the time I preferred an east coast school located in a major market. Temple was one. Solid basketball pedigree and already a cross-city rivalry w/nova. If Midwest, based solely on market, St Louis. But CU has done a great job in the BE, so all-good.
Nova would have had to sign off on Temple. They wouldn't have.
Also, Temple is still pretending to be a football school.
Quote from: Viper on February 23, 2025, 09:33:47 PMCreighton has worked out, but at the time I preferred an east coast school located in a major market. Temple was one. Solid basketball pedigree and already a cross-city rivalry w/nova. If Midwest, based solely on market, St Louis. But CU has done a great job in the BE, so all-good.
St. Louis over Creighton?
Barf.
Market doesn't really matter if no one in the market cares.
St. Louis averages about 5,700 fans per game. Creighton, 17,340.