https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2025/02/11/marquette-only-power-conference-team-without-incoming-division-1-transfers/78393079007/
I think 4never said that sometimes we are ashamed of the things we should be proud of and proud of the things we should be ashamed of. I agreed. I doubt we would have agreed about which is which.
However, as MU fans, we should be proud of our coaches and players for this.
Nice article. Culture matters right now more than ever. I hope we see a team that manages the adversity of a 3 game loosing streak and crushes the rest of the season.
Culture is for losers
Great stuff!
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2025, 11:32:06 AMhttps://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2025/02/11/marquette-only-power-conference-team-without-incoming-division-1-transfers/78393079007/
I think 4never said that sometimes we are ashamed of the things we should be proud of and proud of the things we should be ashamed of. I agreed. I doubt we would have agreed about which is which.
However, as MU fans, we should be proud of our coaches and players for this.
How dare you!!
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 11, 2025, 12:45:56 PMIs woke
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Rd5qaCOiAwEvNIMtHePfQ0OK6gXSivGu_d7s66fTho_X9cnTNsluQIeS2PAujI2RILYJcfv8VRVIsjkLp3DtMfQjb3o_crboOEKubHpLSYlknOm8ukKDFhhvjPREKLB_GxJO1qOKAY0-7nMIQg)
Count me in the Culture Club.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 11, 2025, 12:48:23 PM(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Rd5qaCOiAwEvNIMtHePfQ0OK6gXSivGu_d7s66fTho_X9cnTNsluQIeS2PAujI2RILYJcfv8VRVIsjkLp3DtMfQjb3o_crboOEKubHpLSYlknOm8ukKDFhhvjPREKLB_GxJO1qOKAY0-7nMIQg)
Starting bong hits soon
Running hills? I thought only Wardle made players do that.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 11, 2025, 12:56:35 PMRunning hills? I thought only Wardle made players do that.
Watch some of the #mubb offseason videos.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 11, 2025, 02:11:53 PMVideo unavailable, fail
Shows up for me, you must live under an oppressive regime.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 11, 2025, 02:12:56 PMShows up for me, you must live under an oppressive regime.
This sure sounds political to me.
Will be happy if the culture covers against Depaul tonight.
I'm ready to put the "no incoming transfers in 3 years" narrative to rest. It's not inherently a good thing or a bad thing to not take transfers.
Why is the cutoff 3 years anyway? Oh right, it's because we took 2 transfers 4 years ago who ended up being drafted and played major roles in 2 of the best regular seasons in the last 50 years. One of them is near or at "MU legend" status.
It's just kind of lame to keep gloating about. It doesn't result in any more wins, other teams have great cultures with many transfers, and it's also not entirely representative of what has made MU so successful in Shaka's tenure. Just my thought on it, anyway.
Great story that really highlights how special we have it as MU fans. Read that article and ask yourself, how can Shaka NOT be our "forever" coach? Hopefully our fan base can show as much character and toughness as our team, when we have a down stretch or season under Shaka. The recent complaining by some about some
of our players/Shaka has been disappointing.
It's become apparent that the only reason Shaka took in some transfers in his first season was to fill gaping holes in the roster that he inherited. It really was his only option at that point.
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 11, 2025, 02:24:17 PMI'm ready to put the "no incoming transfers in 3 years" narrative to rest. It's not inherently a good thing or a bad thing to not take transfers.
Why is the cutoff 3 years anyway? Oh right, it's because we took 2 transfers 4 years ago who ended up being drafted and played major roles in 2 of the best regular seasons in the last 50 years. One of them is near or at "MU legend" status.
It's just kind of lame to keep gloating about. It doesn't result in any more wins, other teams have great cultures with many transfers, and it's also not entirely representative of what has made MU so successful in Shaka's tenure. Just my thought on it, anyway.
Pretty obvious the tranfers in year 1 were needed to field an actual team. Those tranfers also played for Marquette for 2-3 seasons and developed into those NBA players here.
I also think it is perfectly fine to be proud of or gloat about. I enjoy seeing a high level of success on the court while watching the same guys grow and develop over a number of years.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2025, 02:16:17 PMThis sure sounds political to me.
Governor here is now red
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 11, 2025, 02:19:23 PMWill be happy if the culture covers against Depaul tonight.
Sorry to tell you, but Shaka's culture doesn't include covering.
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 11, 2025, 02:24:17 PMI'm ready to put the "no incoming transfers in 3 years" narrative to rest. It's not inherently a good thing or a bad thing to not take transfers.
Why is the cutoff 3 years anyway? Oh right, it's because we took 2 transfers 4 years ago who ended up being drafted and played major roles in 2 of the best regular seasons in the last 50 years. One of them is near or at "MU legend" status.
It's just kind of lame to keep gloating about. It doesn't result in any more wins, other teams have great cultures with many transfers, and it's also not entirely representative of what has made MU so successful in Shaka's tenure. Just my thought on it, anyway.
It will be the narrative as long as it continues.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 11, 2025, 03:02:25 PMGovernor here is now red
I was talking about how your wifey puts "newsy" controls on your internet. Duh.
Folks continue to incorrectly equate not landing a transfer with not pursuing a transfer. I get the sense that Shaka will pursue every option as long as their is a scholarship open. However, given the differences in culture here compared to most other places, it makes sense that fewer transfers have been landed.
Based on Shaka's own words...
They have to fit and buy in to the culture.
They have to be better than what MU already has.
Have to be willing to come without a bag drop.
Why should he want somebody who averages 17 points in the Mountain West just looking for a payday?
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2025, 12:58:01 PMWatch some of the #mubb offseason videos.
you missed the joke :)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/horizon/2013/04/30/wisconsin-green-bay-brian-wardle-abuse-allegations-ryan-bross/2123569/
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 11, 2025, 02:24:17 PMI'm ready to put the "no incoming transfers in 3 years" narrative to rest. It's not inherently a good thing or a bad thing to not take transfers.
Why is the cutoff 3 years anyway? Oh right, it's because we took 2 transfers 4 years ago who ended up being drafted and played major roles in 2 of the best regular seasons in the last 50 years. One of them is near or at "MU legend" status.
It's just kind of lame to keep gloating about. It doesn't result in any more wins, other teams have great cultures with many transfers, and it's also not entirely representative of what has made MU so successful in Shaka's tenure. Just my thought on it, anyway.
There have been multiple recruits that have mentioned Marquette not taking transfers and not having transfers out that is attractive to them about MU. And we've also discussed how Marquette's continuity may help them early in the year while a team full of transfers and freshman are still figuring out how to play together. So it actually might result in more wins.
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2025, 03:16:17 PMBased on Shaka's own words...
They have to fit and buy in to the culture.
They have to be better than what MU already has.
Have to be willing to come without a bag drop.
Why should he want somebody who averages 17 points in the Mountain West just looking for a payday?
Shaka mentioned in an interview last season they had a list of at least four guys in the Portal and when they demanded money to come to MU Shaka basically said "if you come here you can earn NIL like our guys have" that was the end of the conversations. So it isn't like Shaka is refusing to take transfers, he's just not willing to cause possible dissension in the locker room.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 11, 2025, 03:38:40 PMThere have been multiple recruits that have mentioned Marquette not taking transfers and not having transfers out that is attractive to them about MU. And we've also discussed how Marquette's continuity may help them early in the year while a team full of transfers and freshman are still figuring out how to play together. So it actually might result in more wins.
This. Very nicely laid out Wades. The "Just one transfer please. We need a (fill in the blank)..." argument ignores that Shaka's M.O. is based upon trying to build the team the way he has. He
may have to go to the portal at some point but seems determined to avoid it as long as possible.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 11, 2025, 02:44:54 PMIt's become apparent that the only reason Shaka took in some transfers in his first season was to fill gaping holes in the roster that he inherited. It really was his only option at that point.
#FakeNews #Lies
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 11, 2025, 02:32:45 PMHopefully our fan base can show as much character and toughness as our team, when we have a down stretch or season under Shaka. The recent complaining by some about some
of our players/Shaka has been disappointing.
The irony of this statement coming from you is staggering.
#youhadzeroimpactonWojogettingcanned
I am proud of the program that Shaka has built and the way he's built it. But I'll be honest (as always): I'd also be proud if he built a successful program using the existing rules to bring in transfers.
There are many ways to win. How Shaka is doing it so far is unique, and that's cool.
I like that our players have great relationships with each other and the coaches, and that they believe Marquette has been a special place to be.
Pretty damn good stuff from Crean here.
https://x.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1889458935712849956?t=lw2WqCCH4jrEWTUpmwzd6g&s=19
Crean used transfers and JuCos, so did Buzz. Wojo used grad transfers. Shaka used transfers his first season. Hurley has used the portal. Jay Wright was home grown and developed. The SEC went big on transfers and guys using their COVID years.
The contrarian in me likes MU going against the grain.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 11, 2025, 05:52:09 PMPretty damn good stuff from Crean here.
https://x.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1889458935712849956?t=lw2WqCCH4jrEWTUpmwzd6g&s=19
Obvious conflict of interest.
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2025, 05:55:08 PMCrean used transfers and JuCos, so did Buzz. Wojo used grad transfers. Shaka used transfers his first season. Hurley has used the portal. Jay Wright was home grown and developed. The SEC went big on transfers and guys using their COVID years.
The contrarian in me likes MU going against the grain.
Crean kind of used JUCOs. He had three in Jackson, Kinsella and Lott. Kinsella was a 4-2-4 who started out at Rice. The administration wouldn't let him bring in another 2-4 until MJax graduated. The only other transfers I can remember under Crean were RJax and Fitz. It was a different era - the grad transfer exception had just come into play and players still had to sit a year.
Tsk tsk, tsk. Somehow forgetting the legendary Trend Blackledge. After missing out on his JUCO teammate
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 12, 2025, 08:13:33 AMCrean kind of used JUCOs. He had three in Jackson, Kinsella and Lott. Kinsella was a 4-2-4 who started out at Rice. The administration wouldn't let him bring in another 2-4 until MJax graduated. The only other transfers I can remember under Crean were RJax and Fitz. It was a different era - the grad transfer exception had just come into play and players still had to sit a year.
Mo Aker transferred to MU under Crean
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 11, 2025, 05:52:09 PMPretty damn good stuff from Crean here.
https://x.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1889458935712849956?t=lw2WqCCH4jrEWTUpmwzd6g&s=19
Great stuff from Coach Crean. Had me pumped up to grab some rebounds. I get the dislike for him by the way he just left us, and his coaching/recruiting wasn't perfect, but he was the right coach at the right time, and I will always applaud him for what he did for us.
Quote from: Big Papi on February 12, 2025, 08:25:57 AMGreat stuff from Coach Crean. Had me pumped up to grab some rebounds. I get the dislike for him by the way he just left us, and his coaching/recruiting wasn't perfect, but he was the right coach at the right time, and I will always applaud him for what he did for us.
Yea, based on the reception he got last night during the game, it would seem that most of the fanbase (in attendance) has this opinion. We've come a long way from him being boo'd every game during "Titan Spirit".
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2025, 03:16:17 PMBased on Shaka's own words...
They have to fit and buy in to the culture.
They have to be better than what MU already has.
Have to be willing to come without a bag drop.
Why should he want somebody who averages 17 points in the Mountain West just looking for a payday?
Feels like he is looking for a unicorn and only then will he take in a transfer. I am fine with us not taking a transfer 95% of the time but I think the ceiling of this program would be higher if he honestly looks at his roster from year to year and goes and get someone who will help his team out when needed. I think his current philosophy will have our on court success be more up and down than most will like.
Well said. He sold MU hard. Not a perfect coach. Zones and recruiting bigs come to mind. He took MU to a final 4. I am grateful for that. He has made peace with MU and the powers that be have made peace with him.
Long past time to let go and move on.
Quote from: Big Papi on February 12, 2025, 08:32:04 AMFeels like he is looking for a unicorn and only then will he take in a transfer. I am fine with us not taking a transfer 95% of the time but I think the ceiling of this program would be higher if he honestly looks at his roster from year to year and goes and get someone who will help his team out when needed. I think his current philosophy will have our on court success be more up and down than most will like.
His current philosophy is definitely old school. What programs used to strive for. What drove MU fans crazy about Wisconsin during the Bo years.
14 scholarships accounted for for next season. Math says that unless there are departures, Shaka will once again only take a unicorn. Or, as history indictates, an under the radar, unheralded, freshman big.
I enjoyed the article, thanks for posting.
I don't know that it is good or bad to have no transfers in/out, or if it is particularly virtuous.
But, as a fan, I really like watching the players develop over their four years and the feeling that all the players are "our guys" and not hired guns. I look forward to seeing what the underclassmen will become and it is nice to know that most likely I'll get to watch them here.
One of the worst things in the world for any sports fan is to see their favorite players wear another team's uniform on the same level. (I'm still not over Mookie Betts)
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 12, 2025, 08:37:44 AMI enjoyed the article, thanks for posting.
I don't know that it is good or bad to have no transfers in/out, or if it is particularly virtuous.
But, as a fan, I really like watching the players develop over their four years and the feeling that all the players are "our guys" and not hired guns. I look forward to seeing what the underclassmen will become and it is nice to know that most likely I'll get to watch them here.
One of the worst things in the world for any sports fan is to see their favorite players wear another team's uniform on the same level. (I'm still not over Mookie Betts)
Great point.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 12, 2025, 08:37:44 AMI enjoyed the article, thanks for posting.
I don't know that it is good or bad to have no transfers in/out, or if it is particularly virtuous.
But, as a fan, I really like watching the players develop over their four years and the feeling that all the players are "our guys" and not hired guns. I look forward to seeing what the underclassmen will become and it is nice to know that most likely I'll get to watch them here.
One of the worst things in the world for any sports fan is to see their favorite players wear another team's uniform on the same level. (I'm still not over Mookie Betts)
I kind of enjoyed watching Izzo scream at Joey over and over again. Then I got over it and moved on.
Quote from: Jables1604 on February 11, 2025, 04:14:41 PMThe irony of this statement coming from you is staggering.
#youhadzeroimpactonWojogettingcanned
Not really. If you can't distinguish the difference between how Shaka operates as a leader and coach, and Wojo, your lack of common sense is staggering. My patience with Shaka will be 20x what it was for Wojo, as one is brilliant, and the other - an air punching meathead.
Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2025, 08:51:37 AMI kind of enjoyed watching Izzo scream at Joey over and over again. Then I got over it and moved on.
Izzo has lost 3 of 4. Patented Spartan fade engaged
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2025, 09:14:13 AMIzzo has lost 3 of 4. Patented Spartan fade engaged
Izzo is positioning his team to be underseeded in the NCAAs so he can mess up MU's tourney run. Again.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 12, 2025, 11:31:58 AMIzzo is positioning his team to be underseeded in the NCAAs so he can mess up MU's tourney run. Again.
Two 7 seeds won't play each other :(
#UnprotectedSeed
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 12, 2025, 11:31:58 AMIzzo is positioning his team to be underseeded in the NCAAs so he can mess up MU's tourney run. Again.
Terrible 3-pt shooting team but eat at the line and offensive glass. Teams are miserable from 3 against them. Can see them making a run this March. Mediocre offenses like Marquette would be fodder for them :-\
Shaka said in the post game that it is going to be very hard for Kam to leave Marquette.......said he has never seen a player love his school, his teammates and the entire community as much as Kam loves Marquette.
Quote from: MuMark on February 12, 2025, 12:34:40 PMShaka said in the post game that it is going to be very hard for Kam to leave Marquette.......said he has never seen a player love his school, his teammates and the entire community as much as Kam loves Marquette.
Thats awesome and I think he shares what a lot of students/alums feel. It's a special place - go make money and come home as much as you can.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2025, 11:37:15 AMTerrible 3-pt shooting team but eat at the line and offensive glass. Teams are miserable from 3 against them. Can see them making a run this March. Mediocre offenses like Marquette would be fodder for them :-\
Woodson switched to a soft zone last night when MSU was up 7 and MSU made two three-pointers after that point. 4/23 on the night behind the arc. Izzo brought in Fidler who he thought would be an answer to the three-point woes from last season and that hasn't worked out. The team shoots under 29% from three on the season, even worse than we do (32%). Sparty is at Illinois on Saturday and in serious danger of getting their fourth loss in five games.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 12, 2025, 08:58:04 AMNot really. If you can't distinguish the difference between how Shaka operates as a leader and coach, and Wojo, your lack of common sense is staggering. My patience with Shaka will be 20x what it was for Wojo, as one is brilliant, and the other - an air punching meathead.
Sure, Jan.
I like Shaka as much as the next guy but we're ready to hand out the life time contract already? Jeez
Quote from: Johnny B on February 12, 2025, 01:40:33 PMI like Shaka as much as the next guy but we're ready to hand out the life time contract already? Jeez
Yes.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 12, 2025, 05:29:40 PMYes.
Let's see how good a coach he is next year. Team has no interior scorers and not sure they have any guards that can create there own shots. Should take one transfer that has the ability to score off the dribble.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 12, 2025, 06:28:02 PMLet's see how good a coach he is next year. Team has no interior scorers and not sure they have any guards that can create there own shots. Should take one transfer that has the ability to score off the dribble.
The same song you have sung for 4 years. TKo isn't a PG. Only hope is Sean. Oso can't play center. OMax is athletic but shouldn't play. Need more Ellis. A transfer is the only hope.
What is different this time?
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 12, 2025, 06:28:02 PMLet's see how good a coach he is next year. Team has no interior scorers and not sure they have any guards that can create there own shots. Should take one transfer that has the ability to score off the dribble.
Hopefully, he takes the Virginia job. We should be able to get Wardle or Moser and upgrade.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 12, 2025, 05:29:40 PMYes.
curious what your standard is to earn a life time contract? Ranked 3 years in a row? Earn a 2 seed? Reach one sweet six teen?
Quote from: Johnny B on February 12, 2025, 07:13:43 PMcurious what your standard is to earn a life time contract? Ranked 3 years in a row? Earn a 2 seed? Reach one sweet six teen?
It would be best if he heads to Va
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 12, 2025, 06:28:02 PMLet's see how good a coach he is next year. Team has no interior scorers and not sure they have any guards that can create there own shots. Should take one transfer that has the ability to score off the dribble.
LOL
Quote from: Johnny B on February 12, 2025, 07:13:43 PMcurious what your standard is to earn a life time contract? Ranked 3 years in a row? Earn a 2 seed? Reach one sweet six teen?
He's a young coach, a good recruiter, excellent with player development, a great representative of the university, and has already achieved extremely high levels of success.
Let's not forget he LOVES Marquette and wants to be here.
Sure, we'd all like more success in March but if he's consistently getting top 4 seeds that will come.
I think anyone who doesn't want him here as long as possible after these first 4 seasons is nuts.
Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2025, 06:30:46 PMThe same song you have sung for 4 years. TKo isn't a PG. Only hope is Sean. Oso can't play center. OMax is athletic but shouldn't play. Need more Ellis. A transfer is the only hope.
What is different this time?
Other than Sean, tell me who else? Nigel James, yes. So you see MU finishing in the Top 5 in the BE? A John Tonje type player would be nice
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 12, 2025, 08:45:51 PMHe's a young coach, a good recruiter, excellent with player development, a great representative of the university, and has already achieved extremely high levels of success.
Let's not forget he LOVES Marquette and wants to be here.
Sure, we'd all like more success in March but if he's consistently getting top 4 seeds that will come.
I think anyone who doesn't want him here as long as possible after these first 4 seasons is nuts.
I love the guy and want him here for a long time, but there really is no such thing as "lifetime contracts." There are always buyouts or rollovers to protect both parties.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 12, 2025, 09:54:21 PMOther than Sean, tell me who else? Nigel James, yes. So you see MU finishing in the Top 5 in the BE? A John Tonje type player would be nice
I will enjoy the journey, appreciate the growth, and trust the process. I won't tear down kids and forecast doom as my default. Will there be seasons where MU is once again team bubble watch? Absolutely. Why should MU be exempt from the occasional down year?
And yes, barring unexpected departures, I see MU in the top 5 in the Big East next season. I am excited about the group of Gold, Ross, Parham, Owens, Lowery, Norman, and Jones. I see the potential of Hamilton, Clark and Amadou.
And regardless, it just isn't in me to hate on MU players. There have been players at MU that I never warmed to. But I don't tear them down, as I never know when a player is going to change my mind through their growth and development.
One thing we don't really talk about are transfers out. It's a big testament to culture that we haven't had any, but I doubt it will stay that way forever- even if guys don't transfer out for $$ (but who would blame them), guys transfer for all sorts of reasons (homesick, family girlfriend, PT, not fitting in, etc).
The question is what does Shaka do when (not if) we get transfers out that are key to the team/plan. Not saying any of these guys will - but if Ben transfers do we ride with the sophs/Clark? If Chase transfers do we hope DO can pick up the scoring? Do we fill the schollys with whatever is left or recruits? Leave them blank? Or do we drop a bag to bring in a replacement piece?
That is a very good rhetorical question. Since we don't know, we all get to speculate freely. For this coming season, I don't see a player without a replacement in the pipeline. Ben gets homesick, yes I think Shaka rides with Hamilton/Clark. Chase goes pro, Zaide, Tre, DO, (freshman) all get opportunities. So, I don't think AN unexpected departure causes a change.
Multiples? Yes. But I have thought that all along.
I don't foresee Shaka ever "dropping a bag" for a transfer. Pay a transfer? Sure. "Dropping a bag" ala some SEC school is not the way I want my alma mater to roll. Just my opinion.
Quote from: 1SE on February 13, 2025, 06:27:51 AMOne thing we don't really talk about are transfers out. It's a big testament to culture that we haven't had any, but I doubt it will stay that way forever- even if guys don't transfer out for $$ (but who would blame them), guys transfer for all sorts of reasons (homesick, family girlfriend, PT, not fitting in, etc).
The question is what does Shaka do when (not if) we get transfers out that are key to the team/plan. Not saying any of these guys will - but if Ben transfers do we ride with the sophs/Clark? If Chase transfers do we hope DO can pick up the scoring? Do we fill the schollys with whatever is left or recruits? Leave them blank? Or do we drop a bag to bring in a replacement piece?
We have had transfers out. Ellis and Itejere.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 12, 2025, 07:13:43 PMcurious what your standard is to earn a life time contract? Ranked 3 years in a row? Earn a 2 seed? Reach one sweet six teen?
You're missing the forest for the trees. Marquette is LUCKY to have someone like Shaka. He likes it here, he is a phenomenal person, and has the team winning. A lot of people around here don't have any clue what it is like to go from what we have now to what a lot of teams are looking at.
Who do you think we can replace him with? Realistically. Why would they be a better fit?
Shaka is 75-29 since he got here. 72% win rate.
Some of you guys are absolutely stupid and should go root for Auburn or something... oh wait, Bruce Pearl has a lifetime win rate at Auburn of 65%. Or maybe Nate Oates... ope, he has a 71% win rate at Alabama.
Basically,
stop being idiots.
Quote from: 1SE on February 13, 2025, 06:27:51 AMOne thing we don't really talk about are transfers out. It's a big testament to culture that we haven't had any, but I doubt it will stay that way forever- even if guys don't transfer out for $$ (but who would blame them), guys transfer for all sorts of reasons (homesick, family girlfriend, PT, not fitting in, etc).
The question is what does Shaka do when (not if) we get transfers out that are key to the team/plan. Not saying any of these guys will - but if Ben transfers do we ride with the sophs/Clark? If Chase transfers do we hope DO can pick up the scoring? Do we fill the schollys with whatever is left or recruits? Leave them blank? Or do we drop a bag to bring in a replacement piece?
If Chase didn't leave this year, he won't be going anywhere next year where he is going to be "The Guy" in a top conference. Same with Ben.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 13, 2025, 08:18:29 AMYou're missing the forest for the trees. Marquette is LUCKY to have someone like Shaka. He likes it here, he is a phenomenal person, and has the team winning. A lot of people around here don't have any clue what it is like to go from what we have now to what a lot of teams are looking at.
Who do you think we can replace him with? Realistically. Why would they be a better fit?
Shaka is 75-29 since he got here. 72% win rate.
Some of you guys are absolutely stupid and should go root for Auburn or something... oh wait, Bruce Pearl has a lifetime win rate at Auburn of 65%. Or maybe Nate Oates... ope, he has a 71% win rate at Alabama.
Basically, stop being idiots.
Preach
Quote from: The Sultan on February 13, 2025, 04:33:10 AMI love the guy and want him here for a long time, but there really is no such thing as "lifetime contracts." There are always buyouts or rollovers to protect both parties.
we handed Buzz what was basically a "lifetime contract" and not only did he nearly tank the program he bailed for a crap program with little recourse for MU.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 13, 2025, 08:37:31 AMwe handed Buzz what was basically a "lifetime contract" and not only did he nearly tank the program he bailed for a crap program with little recourse for MU.
I think a lot was learned from the Buzz experience
Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2025, 05:38:29 AMAnd regardless, it just isn't in me to hate on MU players. There have been players at MU that I never warmed to. But I don't tear them down, as I never know when a player is going to change my mind through their growth and development.
To me, watching players grow as players and people over the four years is among the very best parts of college sports, and particularly basketball. I feel fortunate as an MU fan that we still are experiencing that to this point. Complete roster overhaul year after year would just not be the same. I'd still cheer for the jersey, but would not be as invested in the players individually. It has been a pleasure watching Stevie, Kam and Jop on and off the floor over these four years and to see Marquette become part of them as much as they have become faces of Marquette and represented the University well.
Yes, on court stuff can get frustrating at times, but that is sports. I'll take what MU has going right now over just about anywhere else, and I do take pride as an alum in what Shaka and the team are doing.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 13, 2025, 08:18:29 AMYou're missing the forest for the trees. Marquette is LUCKY to have someone like Shaka. He likes it here, he is a phenomenal person, and has the team winning. A lot of people around here don't have any clue what it is like to go from what we have now to what a lot of teams are looking at.
Who do you think we can replace him with? Realistically. Why would they be a better fit?
Shaka is 75-29 since he got here. 72% win rate.
Some of you guys are absolutely stupid and should go root for Auburn or something... oh wait, Bruce Pearl has a lifetime win rate at Auburn of 65%. Or maybe Nate Oates... ope, he has a 71% win rate at Alabama.
Basically, stop being idiots.
A nit to pick. Shaka is 94-36 at MU. Still a 72% win rate.
Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2025, 10:30:44 AMA nit to pick. Shaka is 94-36 at MU. Still a 72% win rate.
6 wins away from 100 you say? Not only for Shaka, but the Senior class.
That would be a cool milestone.
I think we saw how Shaka would handle an unexpected transfer out when OMax remained in the Draft. I think it was somewhat expected that he'd be back for one more year, but he blew up at the Combine and had a first round grade, so he stayed in. Shaka trusted Jop's development and we ended up with a 2 seed and went one round further than that previous season.
Every situation is different, though. Shaka is a good enough coach and has a good enough read on his teams that I think he'll know when he needs to go out and find a solution to an unexpected departure, and when he has the solution already on the roster.
Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2025, 10:30:44 AMA nit to pick. Shaka is 94-36 at MU. Still a 72% win rate.
Gross, I went from what Google told me in their AI search. Mea Culpa. I won't be doing that again.
The corollary is that Shaka had a .559 winning percentage and was under .500 in conference while at Texas. Very similar numbers to what Wojo had at MU. So, what is he doing at MU that is leading to more success?
Culture? Easier conference? Bad fit? Thoughts?
Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2025, 11:12:45 AMThe corollary is that Shaka had a .559 winning percentage and was under .500 in conference while at Texas. Very similar numbers to what Wojo had at MU. So, what is he doing at MU that is leading to more success?
Culture? Easier conference? Bad fit? Thoughts?
All of the above. I think he learned from his experiences what works for him and what doesn't. He asked for help in areas he struggled. He grew as a coach.
Whoawhoawhoawhoa. Growth? Improved relationships? Harumph.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 13, 2025, 08:18:29 AMYou're missing the forest for the trees. Marquette is LUCKY to have someone like Shaka. He likes it here, he is a phenomenal person, and has the team winning. A lot of people around here don't have any clue what it is like to go from what we have now to what a lot of teams are looking at.
Who do you think we can replace him with? Realistically. Why would they be a better fit?
Shaka is 75-29 since he got here. 72% win rate.
Some of you guys are absolutely stupid and should go root for Auburn or something... oh wait, Bruce Pearl has a lifetime win rate at Auburn of 65%. Or maybe Nate Oates... ope, he has a 71% win rate at Alabama.
Basically, stop being idiots.
I don't want to replace him. He's been great. I'm just not necessarily ready
To fully commit to him being the "forever" coach.its a tad early to me. Alright buddy chill :0
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 12, 2025, 06:28:02 PMLet's see how good a coach he is next year. Team has no interior scorers and not sure they have any guards that can create there own shots.
But will their grammar be ok?
Quote from: Johnny B on February 13, 2025, 12:25:05 PMI don't want to replace him. He's been great. I'm just not necessarily ready
To fully commit to him being the "forever" coach.its a tad early to me. Alright buddy chill :0
It's fine. There is no such thing as a forever coach anyway.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 13, 2025, 09:17:19 AMI think a lot was learned from the Buzz experience
...and I think Shaka learned a lot from the Texas experience.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 13, 2025, 04:33:10 AMI love the guy and want him here for a long time, but there really is no such thing as "lifetime contracts." There are always buyouts or rollovers to protect both parties.
Sure and I didn't mean in that literal of a sense. Moreso that Marquette should want to keep Shaka as long as possible (which is hopefully the reset of his career) and do what is necessary to make that happen, which I'm confident they will.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 13, 2025, 08:24:39 AMIf Chase didn't leave this year, he won't be going anywhere next year where he is going to be "The Guy" in a top conference. Same with Ben.
Yep, I'd be shocked if Chase is not back. Proof of concept with Kam coming back for his senior season and how that's gone.
IMHO Shaka and MU are a perfect fit plus what he is accomplishing is a pleasure to watch
Agree with Sultan and others saying there really aren't "lifetime contracts" ... but weirdly, Shaka already kinda has one.
He will keep getting extensions as long as he wants to be at Marquette and as long as the program is deemed successful; if the program starts to wane and he's still under contract, he could be bought out, just as his predecessor was. And, as is the case with all "lifetime" contracts, he will be free to go anytime he wants as long as he or his new employer pays the buyout.
And echoing Hards ... some folks have to stop being idiots.
There's a reason Shaka's name comes up every time any program of note has an opening. He's great, and just about any university would love to have him as its basketball coach. That we have him at Marquette ... how effen lucky can we be?
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 13, 2025, 08:18:29 AMYou're missing the forest for the trees. Marquette is LUCKY to have someone like Shaka. He likes it here, he is a phenomenal person, and has the team winning. A lot of people around here don't have any clue what it is like to go from what we have now to what a lot of teams are looking at.
Who do you think we can replace him with? Realistically. Why would they be a better fit?
Shaka is 75-29 since he got here. 72% win rate.
Some of you guys are absolutely stupid and should go root for Auburn or something... oh wait, Bruce Pearl has a lifetime win rate at Auburn of 65%. Or maybe Nate Oates... ope, he has a 71% win rate at Alabama.
Basically, stop being idiots.
I think Shaka has done a great job and is one of the top coaches in the country, but the "Who are you gonna replace him with?" argument isn't a good one, IMO. It's exactly the same thing people said about Wojo to defend keeping him around. And ultimately, there were only a few thousand or so coaches who would've been able to do a better job than Wojo.
Quote from: Biggie Clausen on February 13, 2025, 05:33:03 PMI think Shaka has done a great job and is one of the top coaches in the country, but the "Who are you gonna replace him with?" argument isn't a good one, IMO. It's exactly the same thing people said about Wojo to defend keeping him around. And ultimately, there were only a few thousand or so coaches who would've been able to do a better job than Wojo.
If he's one of the top coaches in the country though, then there are not 1000 coaches that could come in and do better and the Wojo comparison is thrown out the window.
I'm fine with Shaka, but I'm not in depression if he left for a deal he felt was better for him. I want people to be all-in in their current situation. And I do feel Shaka is all-in, btw. Though I'm not sold on his recruiting just yet, Shaka's player retention is certainly impressive. Imagine this team if Kam had gone pro or Stevie decided to play a final year elsewhere? Similar to Wojo, Shaka represents MU at a high level and I'm 100% certain he has the best interest of his players at heart. If Shaka did part ways with MU, I like Nate Oates. F4 last year, and might be better this year...in the best conference college basketball has seen since the early days of the Big East. I also like TJ Otzelberger, a lot. What he's done in Ames, IA amazes me. He of the too small polo shirts took over dung and has had a F4 caliber team each of the past two seasons. Not saying either would be interested in Milwaukee...both are cheeseheads, btw... and TJ played college ball at UW-Whitewater, but those are two names at the top of my list if MU was in need of a new coach.
Marquette's not in need of a new coach. This is just grass is greener thinking. And it's dumb.
Quote from: Viper on February 13, 2025, 08:24:43 PMI'm fine with Shaka, but I'm not in depression if he left for a deal he felt was better for him. I want people to be all-in in their current situation. And I do feel Shaka is all-in, btw. Though I'm not sold on his recruiting just yet, Shaka's player retention is certainly impressive. Imagine this team if Kam had gone pro or Stevie decided to play a final year elsewhere? Similar to Wojo, Shaka represents MU at a high level and I'm 100% certain he has the best interest of his players at heart. If Shaka did part ways with MU, I like Nate Oates. F4 last year, and might be better this year...in the best conference college basketball has seen since the early days of the Big East. I also like TJ Otzelberger, a lot. What he's done in Ames, IA amazes me. He of the too small polo shirts took over dung and has had a F4 caliber team each of the past two seasons. Not saying either would be interested in Milwaukee...both are cheeseheads, btw... and TJ played college ball at UW-Whitewater, but those are two names at the top of my list if MU was in need of a new coach.
Neither of those coaches is leaving their current job for MU.
MU is a good job.......just like about 20-30 other schools are good jobs.
You want a new coach if Shaka would leave?.......look at mid majors......college assistants.....and high majors that need a change of scenery.
That's how it works now. Just ask Michigan, Louisville, Ohio State and Kentucky......
Quote from: Biggie Clausen on February 13, 2025, 05:33:03 PMI think Shaka has done a great job and is one of the top coaches in the country, but the "Who are you gonna replace him with?" argument isn't a good one, IMO. It's exactly the same thing people said about Wojo to defend keeping him around. And ultimately, there were only a few thousand or so coaches who would've been able to do a better job than Wojo.
The situations aren't even remotely similar.
Quote from: MuMark on February 13, 2025, 08:39:05 PMNeither of those coaches is leaving their current job for MU.
MU is a good job.......just like about 20-30 other schools are good jobs.
You want a new coach if Shaka would leave?.......look at mid majors......college assistants.....and high majors that need a change of scenery.
That's how it works now. Just ask Michigan, Louisville, Ohio State and Kentucky......
Yep.
Shaka Smart was about as home run a hire as home runs get, a grand slam in the World Series type of hire.
He was the perfect guy at the perfect time for Marquette, and I find it hard to believe that MU could make a better hire if/when he leaves.
Could they make a good hire that is leveling up? Sure. Could they make a lateral hire, or someone like TJO or Nate Oats as referenced above? Maybe, but a big part of the ability to be able to make that hire would be the heights Shaka has brought the program to.
Better hire would be impossible imo.
That man deserved all the support he can get from everyone involved with Marquette, even if/when he has a down season or two.
I just hope he can find that March madness miracle again.
Quote from: Biggie Clausen on February 13, 2025, 05:33:03 PMI think Shaka has done a great job and is one of the top coaches in the country, but the "Who are you gonna replace him with?" argument isn't a good one, IMO. It's exactly the same thing people said about Wojo to defend keeping him around. And ultimately, there were only a few thousand or so coaches who would've been able to do a better job than Wojo.
Yeah, you're the type of person I was talking about. ;D
There is no one on this board that doesn't love Shaka and the overall job he's done to this point. He's great, and everyone hopes the mutual interest remains warm for many many years to come.
That said, Shaka, like most coaches, still has not fully realized his potential. It certainly seems like he has a better shot than most - but until that potential is realized the mutual interest could wane. Only a handful of coaches (Izzo, Few, Wright, K) get to leave completely on their own terms - because they earned it. Shaka hasn't earned that yet. I really hope he does - but we're still in XX years to judge. XX years with no FF, XX years with no NCAAT win, XX years with no NCAAT - we can debate about what "XX" is in each of those cases, but a real integer does exist for each of those.
1. Bruce Pearl
2. Brad Stevens
3. Wes Matthews
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 14, 2025, 07:09:10 AM1. Bruce Pearl
2. Brad Stevens
3. Wes Matthews
Wes can double as Coach/shooting coach, saves a salary
Quote from: 1SE on February 14, 2025, 06:19:23 AMThere is no one on this board that doesn't love Shaka and the overall job he's done to this point. He's great, and everyone hopes the mutual interest remains warm for many many years to come.
That said, Shaka, like most coaches, still has not fully realized his potential. It certainly seems like he has a better shot than most - but until that potential is realized the mutual interest could wane. Only a handful of coaches (Izzo, Few, Wright, K) get to leave completely on their own terms - because they earned it. Shaka hasn't earned that yet. I really hope he does - but we're still in XX years to judge. XX years with no FF, XX years with no NCAAT win, XX years with no NCAAT - we can debate about what "XX" is in each of those cases, but a real integer does exist for each of those.
MU waited for 12 yrs with Al, how long are we willing to wait?
TJO? Oats? Delusional. Not only are their buyouts prohibitive, there's no way a successful P4 coach is gonna leave his gig to go to a school that's likely to be out in the cold once the NCAA crumbles.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 14, 2025, 07:40:40 AMTJO? Oats? Delusional. Not only are their buyouts prohibitive, there's no way a successful P4 coach is gonna leave his gig to go to a school that's likely to be out in the cold once the NCAA crumbles.
COLE
Quote from: 1SE on February 14, 2025, 06:19:23 AMThere is no one on this board that doesn't love Shaka and the overall job he's done to this point. He's great, and everyone hopes the mutual interest remains warm for many many years to come.
That said, Shaka, like most coaches, still has not fully realized his potential. It certainly seems like he has a better shot than most - but until that potential is realized the mutual interest could wane. Only a handful of coaches (Izzo, Few, Wright, K) get to leave completely on their own terms - because they earned it. Shaka hasn't earned that yet. I really hope he does - but we're still in XX years to judge. XX years with no FF, XX years with no NCAAT win, XX years with no NCAAT - we can debate about what "XX" is in each of those cases, but a real integer does exist for each of those.
Hypothetically, what if Shaka coaches at Marquette another 20 seasons and never makes a Final Four? But wins more Big East titles, BET titles, and gets to the Elite 8 a couple times. Would that allow him to "earn" retirement on his terms in your mind?
What if he is Gene Keady? Or John Chaney? Legendary, program defining coaches to never make a Final Four. Is that not satisfactory?
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 14, 2025, 07:40:40 AMTJO? Oats? Delusional. Not only are their buyouts prohibitive, there's no way a successful P4 coach is gonna leave his gig to go to a school that's likely to be out in the cold once the NCAA crumbles.
Steve Kerr spent years in Beirut, so he would be familiar with living in Milwaukee
Enough of this talk about who would replace Shaka. We should be talking about how Shaka is going to get this team back on the winning track. It is just so inexplicable to me how poorly we have played over the last several games and that includes some of the games we won. They know they can play better because they have. We talk about Marquette Culture. A part of that culture is to instill a mental toughness and urgency to every game. So far, they look like they are just going through the motions. I know many here criticize Shaka for playing the subs, but I think that is a good thing and will pay dividends down the stretch this year and for the long term.
We'll see if Shaka can instill that wining attitude and show us that he is that home run hire we know he is.
Is Mark Few a successful coach?
Quote from: tower912 on February 14, 2025, 08:06:36 AMIs Mark Few a successful coach?
Gonzaga fans would prefer Mark More
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 14, 2025, 07:37:58 AMMU waited for 12 yrs with Al, how long are we willing to wait?
Quote from: tower912 on February 14, 2025, 08:06:36 AMIs Mark Few a successful coach?
Few people think so
1SE has made it clear that he considers our regular season and the BET as mere warmups for the NCAA tourney. He has shown interest only in the 6 NCAA games in which we are 3-3 under Shaka. Weird. An average of 2 games per season and he's done. ::)
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 14, 2025, 09:22:24 AM1SE has made it clear that he considers our regular season and the BET as mere warmups for the NCAA tourney. He has shown interest only in the 6 NCAA games in which we are 3-3 under Shaka. Weird. An average of 2 games per season and he's done. ::)
I simply don't understand fans like that. If you can't enjoy the journey, sports is usually pretty miserable since there is only one champion at the end.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 14, 2025, 07:40:40 AMTJO? Oats? Delusional. Not only are their buyouts prohibitive, there's no way a successful P4 coach is gonna leave his gig to go to a school that's likely to be out in the cold once the NCAA crumbles.
We could never get the active head coach from a program like Texas to come to Marquette.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 14, 2025, 10:11:57 AMWe could never get the active head coach from a program like Texas to come to Marquette.
I think you realize that Oats current circumstances around Alabama are significantly different than Shaka's were at Texas.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 14, 2025, 10:13:19 AMI think you realize that Oats current circumstances around Alabama are significantly different than Shaka's were at Texas.
Right, but he didn't specifically say, "A coach who went to a Final Four at a power 4 program last year and might return there this year." He said "a successful power 4 coach." I guess you can argue how you define "successful," but Shaka is a coach who has been to a Final Four and was coaching at one of the bigger non-blue blood programs in the country when we hired him.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 14, 2025, 10:13:19 AMI think you realize that Oats current circumstances around Alabama are significantly different than Shaka's were at Texas.
And Marquette/the Big East's circumstances are more up in the air than they were four years ago.
Wades just wants to troll these days. Which is too bad, because he knows his stuff.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 14, 2025, 10:16:17 AMI guess you can argue how you define "successful," but Shaka is a coach who has been to a Final Four and was coaching at one of the bigger non-blue blood programs in the country when we hired him.
Shaka got out before getting canned. And I think Texas waived the buyout.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 14, 2025, 10:39:06 AMShaka got out before getting canned. And I think Texas waived the buyout.
I think you are correct about waiving the buyout. It was a win-win in the minds of Texas fans. Shaka gone and it sort of looks like he left on his own rather than Texas having to pull the plug. Well....maybe to Texas fans. I doubt that anyone else was gullible to believe it. With the money that Texas must have? No big deal.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 14, 2025, 10:45:24 AMI think you are correct about waiving the buyout. It was a win-win in the minds of Texas fans. Shaka gone and it sort of looks like he left on his own rather than Texas having to pull the plug. Well....maybe to Texas fans. I doubt that anyone else was gullible to believe it. With the money that Texas must have? No big deal.
And Texas had his replacement lined up.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 14, 2025, 10:50:20 AMAnd Texas had his replacement lined up.
Yep. Worked out for a while, but then.... ::)
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 14, 2025, 10:57:20 AMYep. Worked out for a while, but then.... ::)
Yeah Beard was tough to beat that year and a half.
Well... you know the rest.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 14, 2025, 11:00:44 AMYeah Beard was tough to beat that year and a half.
Well... you know the rest.
He choked.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 14, 2025, 07:37:58 AMMU waited for 12 yrs with Al, how long are we willing to wait?
QuoteHypothetically, what if Shaka coaches at Marquette another 20 seasons and never makes a Final Four? But wins more Big East titles, BET titles, and gets to the Elite 8 a couple times. Would that allow him to "earn" retirement on his terms in your mind?
What if he is Gene Keady? Or John Chaney? Legendary, program defining coaches to never make a Final Four. Is that not satisfactory?
QuoteIs Mark Few a successful coach?
I'd definitely wait 9 for the championship game and 12 for the title.
And different era - but we were basically at the top table from year 3.
I think part of the rub is that Shaka
is on an almost Al-like trajectory - and Al could have (and did) stay as long as he wanted to - that's what it takes. I want Shaka to have Al-success or Rupp, or Wooden, or K or Wright or Hurley or Few (but honestly - if he never cuts down the nets will he be considered one of the greats?). I want Shaka to be one of the all-time greats. I don't want having "good enough that 340 of the DI teams would die for"
I think Shaka can get there - but in that echelon there is very little margin for error. Mark Few has never missed the tournament. Jay Wright had 2 S16s (years 4 and 6), an E8 (in year 5) and a FF (in year 7) when 2011 happened. Hurley - well if you win back to back titles in years 5 and 6 you've punched the ticket.
We still have it all to play for this year - but a second round exit would be a disappointment. A first round exit would be a major regression.
They wanted a truly hands-on coach
Wasn't bro a biter too?
Quote from: The Sultan on February 14, 2025, 09:52:00 AMI simply don't understand fans like that. If you can't enjoy the journey, sports is usually pretty miserable since there is only one champion at the end.
And I simply don't understand fans who are just happy that both teams tried their hardest and everyone had a fun time.
I'm too young for the Al days, but I was in Minneapolis and it was the single greatest sporting experience of my life. I was also in New Orleans and it was the single biggest gut punch of a sporting experience of my life.
But hey - some of us live for the dizzying highs and the terrifying lows. Others of us are the so-called "sweater vests" who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and live for the creamy middles. It takes all types.
Quote from: 1SE on February 14, 2025, 12:24:03 PMAnd I simply don't understand fans who are just happy that both teams tried their hardest and everyone had a fun time.
I'm too young for the Al days, but I was in Minneapolis and it was the single greatest sporting experience of my life. I was also in New Orleans and it was the single biggest gut punch of a sporting experience of my life.
But hey - some of us live for the dizzying highs and the terrifying lows. Others of us are the so-called "sweater vests" who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and live for the creamy middles. It takes all types.
You do realize that people can enjoy the journey and it's importance without minimizing tournament success, right? It's certainly not an either-or scenario like you described.
The recent losses to MSU, and especially NC State (I think we beat Duke if we played them) were absolute gut punches but that certainly didn't ruin how awesome they entirety of both of those seasons were.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 14, 2025, 12:37:11 PMYou do realize that people can enjoy the journey and it's importance without minimizing tournament success, right? It's certainly not an either-or scenario like you described.
The recent losses to MSU, and especially NC State (I think we beat Duke if we played them) were absolute gut punches but that certainly didn't ruin how awesome they entirety of both of those seasons were.
I described nothing as an either-or - I've been consistently saying that everyone can have their own metric for success.
And for me - the losses to MSU (and especially NC State) did significantly diminish how awesome the season was for me - I also had fun along the way (I always have fun when we win - and it always sucks when we lose) - but in terms of how I feel overall about those seasons, yes, significantly worse than I would have if we had cut down the nets.
If you think you can have a great season while bowing out as a 2 seed in the second round more power to you - it's great that that's your metric - but it's not mine.
Quote from: 1SE on February 14, 2025, 12:41:06 PMI described nothing as an either-or - I've been consistently saying that everyone can have their own metric for success.
And for me - the losses to MSU (and especially NC State) did significantly diminish how awesome the season was for me - I also had fun along the way (I always have fun when we win - and it always sucks when we lose) - but in terms of how I feel overall about those seasons, yes, significantly worse than I would have if we had cut down the nets.
If you think you can have a great season while bowing out as a 2 seed in the second round more power to you - it's great that that's your metric - but it's not mine.
Are you willie's son?
Quote from: 1SE on February 14, 2025, 12:41:06 PMI described nothing as an either-or - I've been consistently saying that everyone can have their own metric for success.
And for me - the losses to MSU (and especially NC State) did significantly diminish how awesome the season was for me - I also had fun along the way (I always have fun when we win - and it always sucks when we lose) - but in terms of how I feel overall about those seasons, yes, significantly worse than I would have if we had cut down the nets.
If you think you can have a great season while bowing out as a 2 seed in the second round more power to you - it's great that that's your metric - but it's not mine.
This is absolutely framed as one or the other:
But hey - some of us live for the dizzying highs and the terrifying lows. Others of us are the so-called "sweater vests" who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and live for the creamy middles. I was also not around or the Al years and was not fortunate enough to be in Minneapolis but I was in New Orleans to watch us get destroyed.
You do you but I just think having some additional perspective and context helps, otherwise it feels like it would consistently miserable experience to look at it through that lens.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 14, 2025, 12:44:11 PMAre you willie's son?
No, he can spell, punctuate and articulate himself without referring to any players as dung or having parts of their bodies inserted into various anuses.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 14, 2025, 12:37:11 PMYou do realize that people can enjoy the journey and it's importance without minimizing tournament success, right? It's certainly not an either-or scenario like you described.
The recent losses to MSU, and especially NC State (I think we beat Duke if we played them) were absolute gut punches but that certainly didn't ruin how awesome they entirety of both of those seasons were.
Yep. 1SE approaches this as if fans go into a season with a choice of regular-season success or a Final Four.
This just in: It's not one of your polls; we don't get to choose.
I have thoroughly enjoyed Shaka's nearly 4 full seasons as Marquette's coach. Energy has returned to the program; we are respected nationally again; it's fun that some of my MU buddies who checked out during the Wojo years are really into Marquette hoops again (and they love reminding me that I stuck by Wojo for too long and that I was an early Shaka skeptic); it's fun to have something on the line every time we play; it's fun that the team has won the vast majority of those games.
Hearing 4-star recruits say that they selected Marquette over many other good options because of the culture Shaka has built really makes me feel good about where we're at.
That doesn't mean these nearly 4 seasons have been frustration-free. (I yell at the TV during games plenty.) That doesn't mean I'm "fine" with losing in the NCAAT. (I was grumpy for days after that loss to NC State.) That doesn't mean my desire for the program to succeed at the highest level is lower than that of other MU fans. (We all want to win - a lot.)
Shaka's been a gift to Marquette University, and I like to think our alma mater has been damn good for him, too. The idea that he somehow hasn't succeeded and/or that we easily could do better ... I have a lot of trouble buying that.
I would describe 1SE's choice as either/or, even though he does not.
Either you watch 31 games in our regular season plus at least one in the BET and at least one in the NCAA. OR you watch 1-2, maybe 3 based upon Shaka's history at Marquette (1SE's choice).
Even with a 6-0 run and a natty, enjoy the 30-some some games before the NCAA.
Quote from: 1SE on February 14, 2025, 12:24:03 PMAnd I simply don't understand fans who are just happy that both teams tried their hardest and everyone had a fun time.
Of course I never said that. Never even implied it.
My point is that I can find joy out of a season that doesn't end the way everyone wants it to end. I loved the Big East and BET titles two years ago even though I was disappointed at losing to MSU. In no way did I view the overall season as a failure, or even a disappointment, because of the final game. Life's too short for that nonsense.
Performance in the NCAA tourney defines both the team and the coach. Winning one's conference is like getting a participant's ribbon. That may not be a popular opinion on scoop, but it is the reality of college bball.
Quote from: PJDunn on February 14, 2025, 02:32:13 PMPerformance in the NCAA tourney defines both the team and the coach. Winning one's conference is like getting a participant's ribbon. That may not be a popular opinion on scoop, but it is the reality of college bball.
According to whom?
Again, Gene Keady is in the Basketball Hall of Fame. 6 time national coach of the year. Wooden Award winner. If Shaka mirrored his success at Marquette, I would be thrilled.
But he didn't make a final four...so I guess he sucks.
Quote from: PJDunn on February 14, 2025, 02:32:13 PMPerformance in the NCAA tourney defines both the team and the coach. Winning one's conference is like getting a participant's ribbon. That may not be a popular opinion on scoop, but it is the reality of college bball.
I agree.
What makes us special is we do have a Natty. Of the 300 or so schools that play Division 1 basketball, comparatively few of them have a basketball Natty.
The purpose of basketball is to project an image for a university, thereby attracting more interest and, ultimately, more students. Not to mention more money from generous alumni and, potentially profitable basketball operations.
In the long-run, who cares if you won the Big East? It's nice and should be a goal but THE GOAL is to go deep and even WIN an NCAA. What do you think people remember us for. A Big East title a few years back? Or the times went we went deep in the NCAA?
Forget this COLE nonsense. I want a Natty!
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 14, 2025, 03:13:10 PMI agree.
What makes us special is we do have a Natty. Of the 300 or so schools that play Division 1 basketball, comparatively few of them have a basketball Natty.
The purpose of basketball is to project an image for a university, thereby attracting more interest and, ultimately, more students. Not to mention more money from generous alumni and, potentially profitable basketball operations.
In the long-run, who cares if you won the Big East? It's nice and should be a goal but THE GOAL is to go deep and even WIN an NCAA. What do you think people remember us for. A Big East title a few years back? Or the times went we went deep in the NCAA?
Forget this COLE nonsense. I want a Natty!
People definitely remember who wins the BE regular season and BE Tournament more than they remember any kind of NCAA Tournament that ends before a Final Four.
I'd personally rank them in importance as:
1) NCAA Title
2) Title appearance
3) Final Four
4) Elite 8
5) Big East regular season title
6) Sweet 16
7) Big East tournament title
8) 2nd round appearance
9) Making the Tourney
But that's my personal ranking of importance. What people remember, Final Four is the needle mover. Conference champions in general are much more memorable.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 14, 2025, 03:13:10 PMIt's nice and should be a goal but THE GOAL is to go deep and even WIN an NCAA.
Undoubtedly. No one has stated otherwise.
Either you win it all or you're a loser!
Seems like a really great way to enjoy a hobby.......... ::)
Yeah I'll pass on the "NCAA tournament is all that matters" philosophy of fandom.
Unless you are tOSU. Then natties don't matter if you lose to Michigan.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 14, 2025, 03:15:36 PMPeople definitely remember who wins the BE regular season and BE Tournament more than they remember any kind of NCAA Tournament that ends before a Final Four.
I'd personally rank them in importance as:
1) NCAA Title
2) Title appearance
3) Final Four
4) Elite 8
5) Big East regular season title
6) Sweet 16
7) Big East tournament title
8) 2nd round appearance
9) Making the Tourney
But that's my personal ranking of importance. What people remember, Final Four is the needle mover. Conference champions in general are much more memorable.
I think this is a reasonable enough valuation - but the conference musical chairs devalues conference accolades for me. When our conference foes change every couple years it's hard to build the rivalries that would make winning the conference matter.
Dgies, I get that the goal is always a natty and we have one. Ours will be 48 years old this Spring, and in between then and now we have had some nice runs. I was there during the Al years, and as much as he did to put Marquette on the map, our identity today is Shaka Smart and Tyler Kolek's and Kam's names among others are associated with Marquette.
Did I just commit heresy? Will the Lord smite me? He just might if Jaques Marquette asks him to.
I remember the feeling I had when we won the natty but cannot find the words to do it justice. But to me, the regular season blends into the BET, which blends into the NCAA. The natty is the grand prize. I hope we win another natty before I croak, but I'll enjoy the ride along the way regardless.
Quote from: tower912 on February 14, 2025, 03:45:42 PMUnless you are tOSU. Then natties don't matter if you lose to Michigan.
Well if MU wins a championship this year people here will still be bitching about the Dayton loss and saying that made it a disappointing season, book it.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 14, 2025, 04:46:57 PMWell if MU wins a championship this year people here will still be bitching about the Dayton loss and saying that made it a disappointing season, book it.
I'm just glad Shaka finally beat UW so he won't get booed.........at least for another season.....
Quote from: PJDunn on February 14, 2025, 02:32:13 PMPerformance in the NCAA tourney defines both the team and the coach. Winning one's conference is like getting a participant's ribbon. That may not be a popular opinion on scoop, but it is the reality of college bball.
::)
Quote from: PJDunn on February 14, 2025, 02:32:13 PMPerformance in the NCAA tourney defines both the team and the coach. Winning one's conference is like getting a participant's ribbon. That may not be a popular opinion on scoop, but it is the reality of college bball.
Participant's ribbon might be a bit much, but I agree with your general point. Outside the diehards, regular season and conference success is far less noticeable than tourney success.
Are many non-Marquette fans more than vaguely aware that MU won the BE tourney two years ago? I suspect not. They more likely remember that team as a #2 seed that flamed out opening weekend.
I would bet more people remember Texas losing to Abeline Christian in the 2021 first round than them beating Oklahoma State to win the Big 12 tourney.
NCAAT success absolutely matters big-time. I want that Final Four run. I want another national title. Any loss during March Madness takes me time to get over.
But I just can't take the step of saying that failing to deliver those things means a season was unsuccessful. I get too much joy from each step along the way - and I don't buy that having that perspective somehow makes me less of a Marquette hoops fan.
Al won 1 title. Had he not done so, would his career have been "meh"? Apparently some here think so. Now, does the fact that he won it all make his career extra special? Abso-freakin'-lutely!
Quote from: The Sultan on February 13, 2025, 08:27:15 PMMarquette's not in need of a new coach. This is just grass is greener thinking. And it's dumb.
it's discussion. The point of Scoop, yes? Did I say MU was in need? Nope. Come on Sultan, be better, or go away for good this time.
Quote from: Viper on February 14, 2025, 07:13:54 PMit's discussion. The point of Scoop, yes? Did I say MU was in need? Nope. Come on Sultan, be better, or go away for good this time.
Scoop for dummies
Quote from: Viper on February 14, 2025, 07:13:54 PMit's discussion. The point of Scoop, yes? Did I say MU was in need? Nope. Come on Sultan, be better, or go away for good this time.
Don't say dumb stuff and I won't respond. But that's impossible for you ai'na?
George Mason and St. Peter's made Final4s. I vaguely remember that. Lot of good it did for them other than the HCs getting a higher paying gig. Now, we all want more. And MU has experienced that over time. Just really hard to achieve. Look at Nova. Once Jay left the wheels fell off. Realistically, MU as a smaller school has achieved a lot. Now, do I want more? Darn right I do. But, it's not easy.
Quote from: Nukem2 on February 14, 2025, 08:04:10 PMGeorge Mason and St. Peter's made Final4s. I vaguely remember that. Lot of good it did for them other than the HCs getting a higher paying gig. Now, we all want more. And MU has experienced that over time. Just really hard to achieve. Look at Nova. Once Jay left the wheels fell off. Realistically, MU as a smaller school has achieved a lot. Now, do I want more? Darn right I do. But, it's not easy.
St. Peters never made a Final Four.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 14, 2025, 08:05:14 PMSt. Peters never made a Final Four.
Well, Elite 8 anyway. My point remains the same.
Not make it out of the first weekend of tourney = fart in the wind season
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 14, 2025, 08:25:30 PMNot make it out of the first weekend of tourney = fart in the wind season
That's still true if we were currently 25-0. With this group, the season was always going to be defined in March.
Bottom line all seasons since 1977 sux.
#CRAPSHOOT
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 14, 2025, 04:46:57 PMWell if MU wins a championship this year people here will still be bitching about the Dayton loss and saying that made it a disappointing season, book it.
Dude I still wake up screaming about the St. Thomas loss
I won't truly believe Shaka has his players' backs until he refuses to bench one of them for bringing a murder weapon to the scene of the crime.
The double BE title season was some of the most fun I've had in my 30+ years watching MU basketball. I was devastated when it ended, but I'll never view that year as any sort of failure or participation ribbon.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 14, 2025, 11:37:41 PMThe double BE title season was some of the most fun I've had in my 30+ years watching MU basketball. I was devastated when it ended, but I'll never view that year as any sort of failure or participation ribbon.
COLE
Quote from: MU82 on February 14, 2025, 07:04:37 PMNCAAT success absolutely matters big-time. I want that Final Four run. I want another national title. Any loss during March Madness takes me time to get over.
But I just can't take the step of saying that failing to deliver those things means a season was unsuccessful. I get too much joy from each step along the way - and I don't buy that having that perspective somehow makes me less of a Marquette hoops fan.
Al won 1 title. Had he not done so, would his career have been "meh"? Apparently some here think so. Now, does the fact that he won it all make his career extra special? Abso-freakin'-lutely!
Actually, since it was in a time of MU being an independent, there were no other accolades or in-season accomplishments to hang a banner about; so, if he hadn't won a title, I do think his coaching career would be looked at quite differently. Albeit, maybe like Gene Keady's, which is not bad.
Quote from: MU82 on February 14, 2025, 07:04:37 PMNCAAT success absolutely matters big-time. I want that Final Four run. I want another national title. Any loss during March Madness takes me time to get over.
But I just can't take the step of saying that failing to deliver those things means a season was unsuccessful. I get too much joy from each step along the way - and I don't buy that having that perspective somehow makes me less of a Marquette hoops fan.
Al won 1 title. Had he not done so, would his career have been "meh"? Apparently some here think so. Now, does the fact that he won it all make his career extra special? Abso-freakin'-lutely!
Couldn't agree more. I absolutely want tourney success and want the program to be in position to legitimately have a shot at Final Fours and a championship. That said, there is no denying the crapshoot nature of the tourney.
Why deprive yourself of the joys and frustrations along the way by minimizing those steps? Winning the conference regular season is a tremendous accomplishment that deserves to be celebrated, as does the conf tourney (though I place more value in the reg season grind). For all of the investment of the university in terms of resources, the effort and passion of the players and coaches, the time and emotional energy on the part of fans...it seems crazy to judge an entire season on advancing to a certain point in the tourney. While an early exit is frustrating, an incredibly off day shooting (the new normal, ouch), an injury, running into a Ja Morant etc...can happen and is not going to wipe away the smaller triumphs along the way. That, to me, is a disservice to the effort the players and coaches put in, and certainly would reduce my enjoyment as a fan. Perhaps that is a big picture perspective that comes with age.
Quote from: mug644 on February 15, 2025, 07:26:42 AMActually, since it was in a time of MU being an independent, there were no other accolades or in-season accomplishments to hang a banner about; so, if he hadn't won a title, I do think his coaching career would be looked at quite differently. Albeit, maybe like Gene Keady's, which is not bad.
We'll never know how his coaching career would have looked without that title, because he did get that title.
But since "what-iffing" is a big part of fan sites like this, I'll take a shot ...
He still would have been regarded as a tremendous coach who ran a program that gave Marquette fans a ton to be proud of.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 14, 2025, 07:29:36 PMDon't say dumb stuff and I won't respond. But that's impossible for you ai'na?
your reading comprehension ain't good, hey. Saying I'm not sold on Shaka's recruiting is dumb? Simply an opinion. No right or wrong to it. That I appreciate Shaka's all-in for MU is ...dumb? That IF there was a need for a HC...I mention two coaches with state ties I like...no good for you? Seriously, thought you left Scoop? Word has it you were run off by dentists?
Quote from: StillWarriors on February 15, 2025, 10:06:35 AMit seems crazy to judge an entire season on advancing to a certain point in the tourney. While an early exit is frustrating, an incredibly off day shooting (the new normal, ouch), an injury, running into a Ja Morant etc...can happen and is not going to wipe away the smaller triumphs along the way. That, to me, is a disservice to the effort the players and coaches put in, and certainly would reduce my enjoyment as a fan. Perhaps that is a big picture perspective that comes with age.
I don't think anyone is judging an entire season on tourney results, just acknowledging that tourney results carry an outsized influence on how one judges a season. Every tournament game is the team's most important game to that point in the season.
Quote from: Viper on February 15, 2025, 12:24:23 PMyour reading comprehension ain't good, hey. Saying I'm not sold on Shaka's recruiting is dumb? Simply an opinion. No right or wrong to it. That I appreciate Shaka's all-in for MU is ...dumb? That IF there was a need for a HC...I mention two coaches with state ties I like...no good for you? Seriously, thought you left Scoop? Word has it you were run off by dentists?
You heard wrong. I'm here and going to respond when your posts are bad. Which is often.
"State ties"...lol.
"Tom Izzo on getting most Big Ten wins: 'I'd trade it all for a banner'"
Almost like he only cares about the NCAAT and not the regular season. But he's probably not really a fan of the game.
Quote from: 1SE on February 17, 2025, 03:00:00 PM"Tom Izzo on getting most Big Ten wins: 'I'd trade it all for a banner'"
Almost like he only cares about the NCAAT and not the regular season. But he's probably not really a fan of the game.
You think Tom Izzo doesn't care about the regular season?
Quote from: 1SE on February 17, 2025, 03:00:00 PM"Tom Izzo on getting most Big Ten wins: 'I'd trade it all for a banner'"
Almost like he only cares about the NCAAT and not the regular season. But he's probably not really a fan of the game.
Or he greatly values the regular season but wants another championship and values that slightly more.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 17, 2025, 03:06:35 PMOr he greatly values the regular season but wants another championship and values that slightly more.
Or he is uncomfortable with individual accolades and values team success. Regardless, that's quite the stretch by 1SE.
Quote from: 1SE on February 17, 2025, 03:00:00 PM"Tom Izzo on getting most Big Ten wins: 'I'd trade it all for a banner'"
Almost like he only cares about the NCAAT and not the regular season. But he's probably not really a fan of the game.
Yet he doesn't say nothing but the Tournament matters. And of course he's going to say that. He's talking about an individual accomplishment and trying to deflect the praise.
He'd also keep domestic abusers and rapists on staff and on the roster to win basketball games. So congrats on aligning with him.
He is also trying to end a quarter century of Big 10 mediocrity.
Quote from: 1SE on February 17, 2025, 03:00:00 PM"Tom Izzo on getting most Big Ten wins: 'I'd trade it all for a banner'"
Almost like he only cares about the NCAAT and not the regular season. But he's probably not really a fan of the game.
That's not what he's saying at all.
It's the classic "individual milestones or awards are great but I'd rather have a championship" line that athletes and coaches have been saying forever.
Or maybe you've never followed sports?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 17, 2025, 03:10:52 PMYet he doesn't say nothing but the Tournament matters. And of course he's going to say that. He's talking about an individual accomplishment and trying to deflect the praise.
He'd also keep domestic abusers and rapists on staff and on the roster to win basketball games. So congrats on aligning with him.
Recruits aircraft carriers though
Some Scoopers woulda loved it if Shaka dropped a bag to outbid Hurley for Aidan Mahaney ... until it was quickly discovered that Mahaney couldn't cut it in the Big East.
Quote from: 1SE on February 17, 2025, 03:00:00 PM"Tom Izzo on getting most Big Ten wins: 'I'd trade it all for a banner'"
Almost like he only cares about the NCAAT and not the regular season. But he's probably not really a fan of the game.
You must have pulled something with that stretch.
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1891923032765051353?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Quote from: MuMark on February 18, 2025, 12:51:07 PMhttps://x.com/marquettembb/status/1891923032765051353?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
How can the players show any joy with Wisconsin ahead of them on the S-curve???
Quote from: MuMark on February 18, 2025, 12:51:07 PMhttps://x.com/marquettembb/status/1891923032765051353?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
He looks like Shaka in the still frame. The nose, smile, and hair.
Anyway, he'll always be one of my favorite Marquette players.
Obviously, the SJU method of the future and whatever Wisconsin chooses to do at any given moment is better.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 18, 2025, 01:04:12 PMHe looks like Shaka in the still frame. The nose, smile, and hair.
Anyway, he'll always be one of my favorite Marquette players.
Just to be sure, it's Scott Merritt returning home from Gardner-Webb, right?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 18, 2025, 01:04:12 PMHe looks like Shaka in the still frame. The nose, smile, and hair.
Anyway, he'll always be one of my favorite Marquette players.
My sons have called him Shaka's son since he joined the team.
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1891994821725680105?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Did I see Liza Karlen sitting next to Oso at the game?
Quote from: barfolomew on February 19, 2025, 12:59:56 PMDid I see Liza Karlen sitting next to Oso at the game?
You did
Quote from: barfolomew on February 19, 2025, 12:59:56 PMDid I see Liza Karlen sitting next to Oso at the game?
Another great MINNESOTAN!
Quote from: barfolomew on February 19, 2025, 12:59:56 PMDid I see Liza Karlen sitting next to Oso at the game?
They have been a couple for a few years now.
Quote from: MuMark on February 21, 2025, 12:45:28 PMThey have been a couple for a few years now.
I know, just glad to see that they're still together.
Although, one now might question Oso's judgement because he's dating a domer...