Just thinking about who is the center next year? Ben debatable, Hamilton shown nothing, and Clark, tall and is good dunker, athletic, but very skinny, plus Shaka has not had a low post center yet. Does Shaka with the unused scholarship find a serviceable big who can rebound? Then the point guard, Norman do not see it, Jones is a spot player since he is so small, then Nigel James? Could he start a freshman, who can create his own shot and is a pass first point?
4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
Shaka's system doesn't have a "center"
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
Surprised you have Owens in your 4 starters. There was a TON of excitement about him and some impressive minutes in earlier games, but lately?
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
I thought that but lately I realize Gold is very limited. Also, Lowery instead of Owen.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
I could see Lowrey starting over Owens.
Jones at PG. Gold at C.
Gold is limited playing on shin splints. He was more than holding his own in the OOC and first half of the conference season. Hence your absence.
It could be Zaide over Owens. Or it could be both.
Tower, you have been a Ben believer for years, time to give it up
Nope. Until two weeks ago when he started hobbling, I was more convinced than ever he was going to the league.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 09, 2025, 05:23:43 PMJust thinking about who is the center next year? Ben debatable, Hamilton shown nothing, and Clark, tall and is good dunker, athletic, but very skinny, plus Shaka has not had a low post center yet. Does Shaka with the unused scholarship find a serviceable big who can rebound? Then the point guard, Norman do not see it, Jones is a spot player since he is so small, then Nigel James? Could he start a freshman, who can create his own shot and is a pass first point?
Sean Jones is not a spot player. He will be one of the best PGs in the league.
Stop it.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 05:58:20 PMSean Jones is not a spot player. He will be one of the best PGs in the league.
Stop it.
I don't see that
Nor do I. But I can hope he is right.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 05:58:20 PMSean Jones is not a spot player. He will be one of the best PGs in the league.
Stop it.
Don't see it
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 05:58:20 PMSean Jones is not a spot player. He will be one of the best PGs in the league.
Stop it.
I wish, but that's not happening.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 09, 2025, 06:02:40 PMI don't see that
How?
Every big game we played last year where he was available...he was in the closing lineup.
UCLA? He closed and hit the game winner.
Kansas? He dominated the 2nd half.
Creighton? Dominated to close scoring 15 points.
He's very good. Will be one of the best PGs in the league.
The offense was stagnating with him running point and TKo off the ball. Do you remember early January 2024?
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 06:08:17 PMThe offense was stagnating with him running point and TKo off the ball. Do you remember early January 2024?
Yeah Sean had flashes for sure but GE03's only really looking at the positives. Not to mention he's also coming off an injury.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 09, 2025, 05:32:50 PMI could see Lowrey starting over Owens.
Jones at PG. Gold at C.
Agree with this. Could see Zaide making a big leap.
We'll have three centers next year with Gold, Hamilton, and Clark. So what I'm most curious most is where Al Amadou fits into this. Does he sub in for the 4?
He is a 15-20 minute spot player, yes he might smart since Norman is not a point or James is not ready, might see Owens playing some minutes there.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 09, 2025, 06:15:28 PMHe is a 15-20 minute spot player, yes he might smart since Norman is not a point or James is not ready, might see Owens playing some minutes there.
Sean Jones is not a spot player. Bookmark it. Come back to it. Whatever you gotta do.
Sean Jones is very good. Just watch how impactful he was towards winning last year, and listen to how Shaka talks about him.
Quote from: K1 Lover on February 09, 2025, 06:14:15 PMAgree with this. Could see Zaide making a big leap.
We'll have three centers next year with Gold, Hamilton, and Clark. So what I'm most curious most is where Al Amadou fits into this. Does he sub in for the 4?
I see four players that will have to have a great summer to improve. Amadou would be wise to transfer. They moved him to the wing, see what happens
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 06:17:30 PMSean Jones is not a spot player. Bookmark it. Come back to it. Whatever you gotta do.
Sean Jones is very good. Just watch how impactful he was towards winning last year, and listen to how Shaka talks about him.
He's was seventh on the team in minutes before injury and had an EFG of .475.
I doubt he goes from that, coming off injury, to become one of the best PGs in the BE.
He would be the shortest point in college, can he guard big guards like St Johns has, or other teams, ever heard of post up?
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 06:17:30 PMSean Jones is not a spot player. Bookmark it. Come back to it. Whatever you gotta do.
Sean Jones is very good. Just watch how impactful he was towards winning last year, and listen to how Shaka talks about him.
Saved
Good opponents were forcing switches to force Sean to guard the post for his first 1.5 seasons...41% shooter, 29% from 3.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 06:25:08 PMGood opponents were forcing switches to force Sean to guard the post for his first 1.5 seasons...41% shooter, 29% from 3.
Sporadic minutes behind the best PG in America, and was still so impactful that Shaka had him closing games alongside Kolek.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 06:32:27 PMSporadic minutes behind the best PG in America, and was still so impactful that Shaka had him closing games alongside Kolek.
Occasionally.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
Lowery is ahead of Owens.
For now.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 06:17:30 PMSean Jones is not a spot player. Bookmark it. Come back to it. Whatever you gotta do.
Sean Jones is very good. Just watch how impactful he was towards winning last year, and listen to how Shaka talks about him.
Not a knock on you. Hope you're correct.
Just don't see it based on his shooting.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 09, 2025, 06:18:10 PMI see four players that will have to have a great summer to improve. Amadou would be wise to transfer. They moved him to the wing, see what happens
It's weird to think about. If he doesn't add anything to what little we saw of his game, then Amadou's role does seem kinda superfluous. So I agree transferring would make sense, but it would also contradict Shaka's emphasis on relationships.
I doubt Amadou will leave. Not sure what his role will be, but I'm certain he'll have one.
I like Sean. I am rooting for Sean. His speed and heart are amazing. I do not remember his first 1.5 seasons as sunshine, balloons, and unicorns. Therefore, after 1.5 seasons off due to knee injury, I am not ready to give him the keys. My mind can be changed by seeing it.
Quote from: K1 Lover on February 09, 2025, 06:41:04 PMIt's weird to think about. If he doesn't add anything to what little we saw of his game, then Amadou's role does seem kinda superfluous. So I agree transferring would make sense, but it would also contradict Shaka's emphasis on relationships.
I doubt Amadou will leave. Not sure what his role will be, but I'm certain he'll have one.
Al will have more length on the perimeter than our defenders do now. But I guess we will see.
lol... weird thing to worry about.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 09, 2025, 07:20:02 PMlol... weird thing to worry about.
Can you be more specific?
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 07:21:13 PMCan you be more specific?
It is a year away. We know who the forwards are. Gold, Parham, Clark, Hamilton.
And the guards/point guard is significantly more worryring if you think about it for more than 20 seconds.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
I actually think Zaide is more likely than Owens as of today.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 09, 2025, 05:23:43 PMJust thinking about who is the center next year? Ben debatable, Hamilton shown nothing, and Clark, tall and is good dunker, athletic, but very skinny, plus Shaka has not had a low post center yet. Does Shaka with the unused scholarship find a serviceable big who can rebound? Then the point guard, Norman do not see it, Jones is a spot player since he is so small, then Nigel James? Could he start a freshman, who can create his own shot and is a pass first point?
PG GIVE THE KEYS TO THE FROSH. Center put Parham down there u less Clark shows something.You already have 3 wings coming in along with Owens, and Chase is back.
Tre and the staff need to rebuild his jump shot this offseason.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
You are probably right Tower but Gold has shown nothing to start. We have enough wings and Parham needs to fill that role until we get some bangers
Quote from: willie warrior on February 09, 2025, 07:59:47 PMPG GIVE THE KEYS TO THE FROSH. Center put Parham down there u less Clark shows something.You already have 3 wings coming in along with Owens, and Chase is back.
It'll be Ben Gold, who has been the starter for a Top 25 team for the entirety of this season as well as contributed to a Sweet 16 and 2 Big East Titles.
I still like the idea of Hamilton making big strides in the off-season. We could use his muscle.
Admittedly, there is MUCH work to be done. But I'm hopeful.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 08:08:10 PMIt'll be Ben Gold, who has been the starter for a Top 25 team for the entirety of this season as well as contributed to a Sweet 16 and 2 Big East Titles.
Two Big East titles?
Quote from: willie warrior on February 09, 2025, 08:03:48 PMYou are probably right Tower but Gold has shown nothing to start. We have enough wings and Parham needs to fill that role until we get some bangers
Head bangers not much of a thing any longer.
Ben is decent at best when he is grabbing rebounds and knocking down 3s. He's been a zero lately. I don't get the Ben hype on this board like he's some stud. Ben gold is not the reason this team is top 25
I don't get the doom and gloom. Life is full of mysteries.
Ben was pretty solid until this recent stretch.
Barring injury Ben will start next season at the 5.
He may not finish or play more than 20 minutes if he doesn't continue to develop, but he's a lock to start.
It's not Shaka's style to displace a starter.
It'll be interesting to see which of Nigel, Tre, Sean start at the 1.
I think it'll be an open competition and the better PG in Shaka's eyes will get the nod.
Don't think class/age will matter as much because there's no established starter returning, but I'd give the edge to SJ22 if he's himself physically.
Chase/Zaide/DO will get a ton of minutes at the 2-3 spots. Parham will be the starting 4.
We have seen a lot of Parham/Benny combos of late from Shaka, and we will likely see many more next year.
Next years team will need one of Zaide/Parham/Owens to step into a blossoming stardom role real quick.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
I'll be shocked if Zaide isn't starting next year. Not sure why Owens has looked so lost the last 6 weeks after looking so good early on - he oozes potential but he might still be another year away before being a starter.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 09, 2025, 09:08:11 PMI'll be shocked if Zaide isn't starting next year. Not sure why Owens has looked so lost the last 6 weeks after looking so good early on - he oozes potential but he might still be another year away before being a starter.
I think the BE season was a step up in intensity that he wasn't prepared for.
Admittedly a long shot, but I can picture Chase, Zaide, and DO being the starting guards.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 09, 2025, 09:09:41 PMI think the BE season was a step up in intensity that he wasn't prepared for.
Hard to say. He looked so smooth and comfy at Iowa State, which is a rugged defensive team - thought that would translate to BE play to but just seems he's lost some confidence.
I would say that DO is like a young QB who lost confidence when they took away his first read and pressured him. He will be fine, assuming he stays healthy and doesn't miss the entire preseason.
The skills are obvious, he just needs the game to slow down for him.
In the meantime, Shaka needs to get him involved in positions where he can succeed
Ask me after the season. Lot of basketball left to be played in this season.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 10, 2025, 06:51:20 AMAsk me after the season. Lot of basketball left to be played in this season.
Yep. I think that's the answer. I want to see who steps up the rest of the way outside of our seniors (chase I think has already done that). Any number of combinations for next year are possible.
This offseason tests the Shaka relationships, growth, victory model more than any other season so far. Losing Kam, Stevie and Jop (for better or worse) will leave a huge hole in leadership and scoring punch and the team is not that good at scoring the ball now.
Will be fun to see Shaka work his magic. Hoping Brew will be writing articles this offseason like he did prior to the 2023 title season when MU was picked 11th. If I recall he was uber optimistic and spelled out why. I don't see it yet for next year. Do we have a leader like Kolek on next years team that will say F' em?
I'll enjoy the rest of this year first and hope the future leaders step up and make themselves readily apparent.
I see a 9 man rotation of Jones, Norman, Lowery, Owens, Parham, Ross, Gold, Clark, and Hamilton, all a year older and healthy, and I am struggling to not go overboard with my enthusiasm.
BCHoopster, I went back through some of your posts. Your player assessments under Buzz were pretty accurate. Your assessments of TKo, Oso, Stevie, Kam, and Omax were quite negative and inaccurate. What happened? Why the praise for Crowl (Ben held him to 2 points) while the disdain for the future NBA players at MU?
I confess your negativity toward the aforementioned MU players makes me less worried about your assessment of Gold.
Tower, love the enthusiasm for next years roster. I truly hope you are spot on.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 09, 2025, 07:41:10 PMIt is a year away. We know who the forwards are. Gold, Parham, Clark, Hamilton.
And the guards/point guard is significantly more worryring if you think about it for more than 20 seconds.
The guards are Ross, Lowery, Jones, Norman, with DO a wild guard(hah) and two highly rated freshmen coming in (though I do not indulge in freshman hype) That is a nice starting point.
Quote from: tower912 on February 10, 2025, 07:40:33 AMI see a 9 man rotation of Jones, Norman, Lowery, Owens, Parham, Ross, Gold, Clark, and Hamilton, all a year older and healthy, and I am struggling to not go overboard with my enthusiasm.
BCHoopster, I went back through some of your posts. Your player assessments under Buzz were pretty accurate. Your assessments of TKo, Oso, Stevie, Kam, and Omax were quite negative and inaccurate. What happened? Why the praise for Crowl (Ben held him to 2 points) while the disdain for the future NBA players at MU?
I confess your negativity toward the aforementioned MU players makes me less worried about your assessment of Gold.
I am impressed that you went back and looked at my old posts. I am sure I was negative towards Stevie, Oso and Omax ability to score. All three had some weaknesses in there game. Not sure about Kam or Kolek. Both have had a great careers at MU. Comes to Ben, biggest issue is that he is not a center, he really is a wing. Yes he can play some D, but is not quick off his feet. I was very happy earlier in the year as I thought he could be an 8 and 5 guy, but last four games, ouch. Has Shaka put him in the best position to succeed, not sure about that either. Need a real center next year and I am not sure there is one on the roster right now? Not sold on Hamilton, curious to see how Clark has improved. Is Shaka willing to change the offense for him, he is a legit 7 footer! Time will tell.
You called them all soft and/or dumb at some point. Is there something about Shaka's players in general that you don't like them like you did Buzz players?
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:48:30 PMNope. Until two weeks ago when he started hobbling, I was more convinced than ever he was going to the league.
Same. He looks like hell out there. Have we confirmed any shin splints or other injury? Hes been limping a lot
Raftery said shin splints during SJU game. Shaka says a bunch of guys are banged up. Stevie with achilles tendinitis, Kam and Chase wrists have all been referenced by Shaka.
So, confirmed? No. Mentioned by an outside, independent source during a broadcast? Yes.
Of course, Raftery was talking g about how close Sean was in November.
Quote from: tower912 on February 10, 2025, 08:15:32 AMThe guards are Ross, Lowery, Jones, Norman, with DO a wild guard(hah) and two highly rated freshmen coming in (though I do not indulge in freshman hype) That is a nice starting point.
Outside of Ross. Every player you said is worse than Gold and Parham.
Relationships, growth, victory. I am looking forward to watching the development.
Quote from: tower912 on February 10, 2025, 09:08:38 AMYou called them all soft and/or dumb at some point. Is there something about Shaka's players in general that you don't like them like you did Buzz players?
Dumb is not my vocabulary, soft for sure.
Shaka's recruiting is interesting, his best 2 recruits were transfers, and now all he says is that he does not take transfers. Get with the times? You can fix weaknesses with adding one player here or there. The transfer portal. Picking up kids that are barely recruited and redshirting them is a unique philosophy but does it work, not sure, two of his classes are average at best. Big recruiting year coming up, needs kids who can step in right away. Buzz recruited JC, tough kids, different philosophy. Shaka was fortunate to have 3 really good players from Wojo. We all want MU to succeed, it will be interesting next year.
Forgive me. I equated questioning basketball IQ as calling a player dumb. Mea culpa.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 08:08:10 PMIt'll be Ben Gold, who has been the starter for a Top 25 team for the entirety of this season as well as contributed to a Sweet 16 and 2 Big East Titles.
things change. Gold shouldn't start tomorrow night, based on his play of late.
I agree next year will be interesting. I see a highly regarded recruiting class that may not play much, as the returnees are all one offseason of work better.
As far as projects, yes, Shaka has made a habit of recruiting long, athletic, under the radar bigs. I put Ben in that category. To my eyes, his progress, along with that of Oso, has been proof of concept. Yes, it requires patience. But clearly, based on the players in the 2025 recruiting class, Shaka and his staff think they have enough talented size going forward.
It is clear you are not sold.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 05:58:20 PMSean Jones is not a spot player. He will be one of the best PGs in the league.
Stop it.
Agree with you. Sean is a terrific athlete. We could have used him this year.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 09, 2025, 08:10:01 PMI still like the idea of Hamilton making big strides in the off-season. We could use his muscle.
Admittedly, there is MUCH work to be done. But I'm hopeful.
I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm not sure of Hamilton's intangibles like work ethic or drive. Haven't seen enough of him. But what I have seen is passable potential. He doesn't seem afraid of his moments. Will take the three and hit it as well as lean on guys in the post. He's not that starter quality now for sure...but big upside.
Just go into the portal and buy a big-necked aircraft carrier and we'll be NC with ease.
Can we hire Wojo as a recruiting assistant?
Quote from: Viper on February 10, 2025, 10:22:06 AMthings change. Gold shouldn't start tomorrow night, based on his play of late.
As mentioned, he's dealing with shin problems, so if he's hurt, sure. If he's available he's the starter and that won't change.
Should he be OUT at any point due to injury, the defense would take a noticable hit. He's very impactful defensively and his presence alone helps this team regardless of the numbers he's accumulating.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 10:53:00 AMAs mentioned, he's dealing with shin problems, so if he's hurt, sure. If he's available he's the starter and that won't change.
The only thing that really works for shin splints is rest. DePaul & SHU at home with the weekend bye looks like the perfect time for some recovery.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 10:53:00 AMShould he be OUT at any point due to injury, the defense would take a noticable hit. He's very impactful defensively and his presence alone helps this team regardless of the numbers he's accumulating.
I've defended Ben a bunch on here, but this hasn't been accurate the past few games. He's clearly having trouble moving, and it's affected his ability to guard a switch and close at the rim.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 10, 2025, 11:02:38 AMThe only thing that really works for shin splints is rest. DePaul & SHU at home with the weekend bye looks like the perfect time for some recovery.
I'd be fine with him getting rest, but if he's available, he's going to be starting is all.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 10, 2025, 11:02:38 AMThe only thing that really works for shin splints is rest.
What about high-powered drugs??
(I've battled shin splints and it's dreadful)
Should rest him this week, get him healthy for March. He has shown he can not play with his issues, playing 2 bad teams this week so why not?
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 09, 2025, 05:58:20 PMSean Jones is not a spot player. He will be one of the best PGs in the league.
Stop it.
Why do you say this with any certainty? He was the the 8th or 9th best player on the team last year before tearing his ACL. He has two memorable games and one of them was the result of Creighton sagging off of him while he banked in threes.
He is 5'9" and shoots under 29% from three.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 10, 2025, 12:17:45 PMWhy do you say this with any certainty? He was the the 8th or 9th best player on the team last year before tearing his ACL. He has two memorable games and one of them was the result of Creighton sagging off of him while he banked in threes.
He is 5'9" and shoots under 29% from three.
He was 4/28 from three going into that Creighton game where he hit three of them. Two of them were big shots, at Illinois and the game winner against UCLA, but I think many are exaggerating how good he actually was.
That said, he absolutely would have helped this team.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 10, 2025, 12:17:45 PMWhy do you say this with any certainty? He was the the 8th or 9th best player on the team last year before tearing his ACL. He has two memorable games and one of them was the result of Creighton sagging off of him while he banked in threes.
He is 5'9" and shoots under 29% from three.
Because he was a part of the lineups that closed games against good teams last year for a top 10 team. His impact on winning was huge.
Elite ball pressure, elite space creation on offense. He has unteachable skills and Shaka raves about him being so.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 12:29:09 PMBecause he was a part of the lineups that closed games against good teams last year for a top 10 team. His impact on winning was huge.
Elite ball pressure, elite space creation on offense. He has unteachable skills and Shaka raves about him being so.
Sean kept driving to the hoop, often with 2-3 opponents waiting for him to strip the ball or draw a foul. His speed is not only a great asset, but also a liability when not used judiciously. I see plenty of upside once he learns to choose just the right times to hit the accelerator.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 10, 2025, 12:44:09 PMSean kept driving to the hoop, often with 2-3 opponents waiting for him to strip the ball or draw a foul. His speed is not only a great asset, but also a liability when not used judiciously. I see plenty of upside once he learns to choose just the right times to hit the accelerator.
He has 22 more assists than turnovers in his young career playing as a backup PG. He had 15 steals in 16 games last year and shot 55% from inside the arc. His size wasn't a problem for him, but his speed is a problem for others.
If you can't tell, I'm more excited to see him than any other player on the roster, but I'm more excited to see how the rest of this season plays out. I'll worry about that other part in April.
I've never been on the "Ben Gold is an NBA player" bandwagon. For him to play in the association, given his many limitations, he'd have to be not just an OK 3-point shooter but a Hauser-like 3-point threat.
Having said that, I've generally been a BG defender here on Scoop because he's been a solid defensive player when healthy. He also was shooting 44% from deep during a more-than-2-month stretch until he started becoming a non-factor 4 games ago, assumably due to injury. He averaged 28 mpg during that stretch and did well against the likes of Kalkbrenner, Crowl and Dixon.
If healthy, it's hard to imagine him not starting next season and being a key contributor. In my mind, he and Ross are the only locks to start, though Parham is pretty close (unless Shaka chooses to make Parham a 25-30 mpg sub who plays both 4 and 5).
To those who say Gold is not really a "center," positions are interchangeable in today's college basketball, and there aren't any Shaqs or Ewings out there. I mean, Theo was a "true center" - is that what you want?
As for the rest of next season's starters ... to me it depends on a few players' development and health. If Lowery and Owens improve during the offseason as much as so many other players have under Shaka, I definitely can see them becoming good Big East starters. Sean Jones is a wild-card; I still view him as more of a change-of-pace 10-20 minute player than as a starting PG, but we'll see how his health and playing level are progressing.
And what if James is a stud? I generally agree with tower on not even considering freshmen, but Marquette might have a need at his position and maybe he blows away the competition over the summer and fall. At the least, I'd think he'd be a rotational piece. And given our desperate need for shooting if we're gonna run this offense, maybe the other two freshmen will find spots in the rotation, too.
Finally, Shaka has had players transfer out to move down a level, so Amadou (and maybe even Norman?) leaving wouldn't be some kind of outlier if it happens.
It's fun to talk about this stuff, even though I still believe this season's story has yet to be written. Most of us are capable of talking about this season while also speculating about next.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 01:20:33 PMHe has 22 more assists than turnovers in his young career playing as a backup PG. He had 15 steals in 16 games last year and shot 55% from inside the arc. His size wasn't a problem for him, but his speed is a problem for others.
If you can't tell, I'm more excited to see him than any other player on the roster, but I'm more excited to see how the rest of this season plays out. I'll worry about that other part in April.
Thanks for posting this. And yes, I can tell. Good stuff here. I stand by my comments about decision making though. Now
that should be the easiest thing to fix, don't you think?
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 10, 2025, 01:29:54 PMThanks for posting this. And yes, I can tell. Good stuff here. I stand by my comments about decision making though. Now that should be the easiest thing to fix, don't you think?
I think his decision making will only get better as he gets older with experience. I also think seeing him do more of what he already did (with the expanded minutes) will be an eye opener as to how good he is and already was.
Not necessarily easy to control a game as a point guard, and especially a young point guard, with limited backup minutes. I think his fingerprints will be all over every game he plays in as a starter.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 01:33:17 PMI think his decision making will only get better as he gets older with experience. I also think seeing him do more of what he already did (with the expanded minutes) will be an eye opener as to how good he is and already was.
Not necessarily easy to control a game as a point guard, and especially a young point guard, with limited backup minutes. I think his fingerprints will be all over every game he plays in as a starter.
The bolded doesn't make a lot of sense to me - the idea that if a player will do better if they play more. That's usually not the case. And there usually is a good reason why their minutes were limited in the first place.
Marquette hasn't had a center in a decade. Don't expect one next year.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 10, 2025, 01:55:14 PMThe bolded doesn't make a lot of sense to me - the idea that if a player will do better if they play more. That's usually not the case. And there usually is a good reason why their minutes were limited in the first place.
Idk how you're reading this, but my point is that what he did was already good. Getting more of what he already did will only show how valuable he already was. 25 minutes of Sean Jones is better than 15 minutes of Sean Jones.
The good reason for limited minutes is that Tyler Kolek and Kam Jones are All American talents and NBA players, so sure. That's a good reason in my book.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 02:01:02 PMIdk how you're reading this, but my point is that what he did was already good. Getting more of what he already did will only show how valuable he already was.
Again, you are taking a very positive look on Sean without looking at his obvious short-comings.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 10, 2025, 02:02:38 PMAgain, you are taking a very positive look on Sean without looking at his obvious short-comings.
I think I addressed them already. People are worried about his size, is that it? He shot 55% from inside the arc and takes more 2s at the basket than 3s.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 09, 2025, 08:17:51 PMBen is decent at best when he is grabbing rebounds and knocking down 3s. He's been a zero lately. I don't get the Ben hype on this board like he's some stud. Ben gold is not the reason this team is top 25
Gold is a backup at best. Never understood the hype for him either.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 02:13:41 PMI think I addressed them already. People are worried about his size, is that it? He shot 55% from inside the arc and takes more 2s at the basket than 3s.
Many of the size concerns are about his defense. We switch everything. Our guards often end up on wings and sometimes end up on the opposing center. There's a big difference between Ross or Lowery being in that situation vs. a tiny kid like Sean Jones.
I also think you are forgetting how often Sean would drive into no-man's land at full speed and either fire up a shot that had no chance to go in or turn it over. That's certainly something he can avoid in the future with better decision-making.
I agree with you that Sean can be a nice contributor if he's healthy. I just don't see how you or anyone else can look at his body of work so far and conclude that he'll be a star PG. I'd love to see it, but to say it with such certainty as you have really takes good imagination.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 02:13:41 PMI think I addressed them already. People are worried about his size, is that it? He shot 55% from inside the arc and takes more 2s at the basket than 3s.
He had the lowest EFG of any returning player last season prior to injury. The only current player that he shoots better than is Tre Norman.
Look, I like the guy. But it feels like your projection for his performance is over-the-top - especially since he is coming off an injury.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 10, 2025, 04:07:09 PMHe had the lowest EFG of any returning player last season prior to injury. The only current player that he shoots better than is Tre Norman.
Look, I like the guy. But it feels like your projection for his performance is over-the-top - especially since he is coming off an injury.
Not just the projection, but the review of past performance seems over the top as well
Quote from: MU82 on February 10, 2025, 04:03:17 PMa tiny diminutive kid like Sean Jones.
often Sean would drive into no-man's land at full speed and either fire up a shot that had no chance to go in or turn it over. That's certainly something he can avoid in the future with better decision-making.
1st line. C'mon Mike! You
know how easily Muggsy gets his panties in a knot over disrespecting diminutive people.
Your comment about decision making echoes mine. I think Sean has a ton of potential and am optimistic that he will reach it, but every time he took off at full speed towards the basket with no brakes applied drove me crazy. He's a sports car. Really good brakes are essential for a sports car if you want to avoid a crash.
Why should Willie be the only guy who gets to rename players.? I'm going with Miata Sean.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 10, 2025, 12:17:45 PMWhy do you say this with any certainty? He was the the 8th or 9th best player on the team last year before tearing his ACL.
Well, if Sean really was 8th or 9th best as a Sophomore on last year's team, then he was behind Kolek, Oso, Jop, Stevie, and Kam, who will all be gone next year. That makes him 3rd or 4th best of what's left. And next season he'll be two years older, more mature, and had two more years of practice/learning under his belt. Add to that the things Shaka has been saying about his development and how he's practicing. Not unreasonable to expect him to start.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 10, 2025, 04:27:04 PMWell, if Sean really was 8th or 9th best as a Sophomore on last year's team, then he was behind Kolek, Oso, Jop, Stevie, and Kam, who will all be gone next year. That makes him 3rd or 4th best of what's left. And next season he'll be two years older, more mature, and had two more years of practice/learning under his belt. Add to that the things Shaka has been saying about his development and how he's practicing. Not unreasonable to expect him to start.
Start? Sure, he's one of the 6 or 7 players I think will compete for a starting role. (5 upperclassmen + DO and RP). GE03 said that he will be one of the best PGs in the league. I think it's very fair to question that considering where his skillset was, as well as the fact that he will be coming off a major injury.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 09, 2025, 05:32:50 PMI could see Lowrey starting over Owens.
Jones at PG. Gold at C.
Agree with this. Owens or Norman will be 1st off the bench unless one of the freshmen really shine.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 10, 2025, 04:14:17 PM1st line. C'mon Mike! You know how easily Muggsy gets his panties in a knot over disrespecting diminutive people.
Your comment about decision making echoes mine. I think Sean has a ton of potential and am optimistic that he will reach it, but every time he took off at full speed towards the basket with no brakes applied drove me crazy. He's a sports car. Really good brakes are essential for a sports car if you want to avoid a crash.
Why should Willie be the only guy who gets to rename players.? I'm going with Miata Sean.
Reminds me of Jop driving to the hoop. He'd get there with no idea of what to do next. Now, he uses jump stop, pivot, going up and under. or using a fadeaway.
Guys learn. Guys get better.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
Lowery not making your starting 5 is wild to me!
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 10, 2025, 04:36:00 PMStart? Sure, he's one of the 6 or 7 players I think will compete for a starting role. (5 upperclassmen + DO and RP). GE03 said that he will be one of the best PGs in the league. I think it's very fair to question that considering where his skillset was, as well as the fact that he will be coming off a major injury.
Nice! I made someone's signature!
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 02:01:02 PMIdk how you're reading this, but my point is that what he did was already good. Getting more of what he already did will only show how valuable he already was. 25 minutes of Sean Jones is better than 15 minutes of Sean Jones.
The good reason for limited minutes is that Tyler Kolek and Kam Jones are All American talents and NBA players, so sure. That's a good reason in my book.
Let's remember Sean had a serious knee issue that he feels is not good enough to play right now. I do not know of any kid
That does not want to play right now. So do we know or does he know he will bebetter in 8 months, no. I think the best point guard is Nigel James as he can create shots for his teammates since
he can get by anybody with the dribble.
Sean was a two guard, has to improve his passing and court awareness.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 10, 2025, 05:18:00 PMLet's remember Sean had a serious knee issue that he feels is not good enough to play right now. I do not know of any kid
That does not want to play right now. So do we know or does he know he will bebetter in 8 months, no. I think the best point guard is Nigel James as he can create shots for his teammates since
he can get by anybody with the dribble.
Sean was a two guard, has to improve his passing and court awareness.
Tons of guys can get around their defender in HS.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 09:10:50 PMAdmittedly a long shot, but I can picture Chase, Zaide, and DO being the starting guards.
So that etching of starters was in soft stone? More like sand?
Sean and Zaide are starting next year. So are Ross and Gold.
Owens or Parham will be the fifth starter and the other will be the first off the bench.
None of the freshmen will start.
I dont know how Al gets any playing time but he does believe he is our best offensive rebounder.
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 10, 2025, 05:27:18 PMSo that etching of starters was in soft stone? More like sand?
Not if Zaide is the fifth starter.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on February 10, 2025, 10:48:28 AMI was thinking the exact same thing. I'm not sure of Hamilton's intangibles like work ethic or drive. Haven't seen enough of him. But what I have seen is passable potential. He doesn't seem afraid of
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on February 10, 2025, 10:48:28 AMI was thinking the exact same thing. I'm not sure of Hamilton's intangibles like work ethic or drive. Haven't seen enough of him. But what I have seen is passable potential. He doesn't seem afraid of his moments. Will take the three and hit it as well as lean on guys in the post. He's not that starter quality now for sure...but big upside.
his moments. Will take the three and hit it as well as lean on guys in the post.
He hasn't hit a 3 yet. 0-7
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2025, 05:26:20 PM4 of the starting five will be Gold, Parham, Owens, Ross. Put it in ink, etch it in stone.
Gold
Parham
Owens
Zaide
Ross..........thats your starting five?
Lets revisit this is November.
Possibly. I think Owens starts over Lowery. I doubt that Chase starts at the point, but it is possible. If he does, that opens the door for Lowery to be the 5th starter.
I think that the PG is TBD. I am confident on the other 4, assuming all are on the MU roster. I acknowledge the possibility that Zaide starts over DO, but I still lean DO.
Quote from: tower912 on February 10, 2025, 05:42:16 PMPossibly. I think Owens starts over Lowery. I doubt that Chase starts at the point, but it is possible. If he does, that opens the door for Lowery to be the 5th starter.
I think that the PG is TBD. I am confident on the other 4, assuming all are on the MU roster. I acknowledge the possibility that Zaide starts over DO, but I still lean DO.
Zaide starts and Sean starts.
Quote from: Big Papi on February 10, 2025, 05:28:12 PMSean and Zaide are starting next year. So are Ross and Gold.
Owens or Parham will be the fifth starter and the other will be the first off the bench.
None of the freshmen will start.
I dont know how Al gets any playing time but he does believe he is our best offensive rebounder.
Mone of the freshmen will start?
You don't know that.The team desperately needs consistent 3 point shooting. It is reported that several of the new guys shoot the 3 well. If they do, then somebody needs to be in there. Where will get consistent 3 point shooting from? Gold? Please.
Quote from: Big Papi on February 10, 2025, 05:28:12 PMSean and Zaide are starting next year. So are Ross and Gold.
Owens or Parham will be the fifth starter and the other will be the first off the bench.
None of the freshmen will start.
I dont know how Al gets any playing time but he does believe he is our best offensive rebounder.
Mone of the freshmen will start?
You don't know that.The team desperately needs consistent 3 point shooting. It is reported that several of the new guys shoot the 3 well. If they do, then somebody needs to be in there. Where will get consistent 3 point shooting from? Gold? Please.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 10, 2025, 05:48:53 PMMone of the freshmen will start?
You don't know that.The team desperately needs consistent 3 point shooting. It is reported that several of the new guys shoot the 3 well. If they do, then somebody needs to be in there. Where will get consistent 3 point shooting from? Gold? Please.
Willie, how many true freshmen have started in the Shaka era? Kam, for a couple of games. It is cool you have so much faith in the recruiting class of 2025.
In a slow day to discuss anything this has been a good discussion!
Quote from: tower912 on February 10, 2025, 05:56:00 PMWillie, how many true freshmen have started in the Shaka era? Kam, for a couple of games. It is cool you have so much faith in the recruiting class of 2025.
With Shaka sticking with his starting 5 pretty much for entire seasons (barring injury), I cannot see a freshman being one of them. We do not have 5 star one-and-dones like Duke et al.
Quote from: tower912 on February 10, 2025, 05:42:16 PMPossibly. I think Owens starts over Lowery. I doubt that Chase starts at the point, but it is possible. If he does, that opens the door for Lowery to be the 5th starter.
I think that the PG is TBD. I am confident on the other 4, assuming all are on the MU roster. I acknowledge the possibility that Zaide starts over DO, but I still lean DO.
I think Lowery will be hard to keep out of the starting lineup. He's the best defender off the bench and much more physical than the freshmen. His football background definitely helps. Owens does have a high ceiling, but he'll need to take a big jump on D (like most freshmen). James might be the wildcard at the PG spot.
I'm going to end my portion of the discussion here because this year is still important to me, but I will stone cold guarantee Sean Jones is starting next year.
For anyone that hasn't heard this yet (hopefully this works, I'm not the greatest with tech).
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 06:25:27 PMI'm going to end my portion of the discussion here because this year is still important to me, but I will stone cold guarantee Sean Jones is starting next year.
For anyone that hasn't heard this yet (hopefully this works, I'm not the greatest with tech).
As many here like to say, Shaka is telling us exactly what he is thinking and what he is going to do. Maybe we should listen regarding his thoughts on Sean.
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 10, 2025, 05:34:05 PMhis moments. Will take the three and hit it as well as lean on guys in the post.
He hasn't hit a 3 yet. 0-7
I might be thinking of the wrong guy!
Whose the bench center who has hit a couple 3s?
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on February 10, 2025, 09:38:25 PMI might be thinking of the wrong guy!
Whose the bench center who has hit a couple 3s?
I stand corrected, Parham not Hamilton. My bad.
Quote from: tower912 on February 10, 2025, 05:56:00 PMWillie, how many true freshmen have started in the Shaka era? Kam, for a couple of games. It is cool you have so much faith in the recruiting class of 2025.
Sorry, my faith will be formed when I see these guys play. I do not have faith in Gold because of his disappearance in many games and seeing too many changers. Don't have any faith that the guys being projected to start will be consistent 3 point shooters. This team will desperately need 3 point shooters and some down low bangers. None of the guys projected have those skills. So let's see what the frosh wings offer.
So, as usual, this team sucks, next season's team sucks, Crean, Buzz, Wojo, Shaka suck. Thank you for being a rock of consistency.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on February 10, 2025, 09:42:31 PMI stand corrected, Parham not Hamilton. My bad.
Parham belongs down low, not shooting 3s. Periodically, maybe, but he is not a consistent 3 point threat.
We need to start Sean Jones at center. Tonight.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 11, 2025, 11:54:12 AMWe need to start Sean Jones at center. Tonight.
Flashing back to the Crean and Buzz years.
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2025, 12:09:52 PMFlashing back to the Crean and Buzz years.
Only if Hamilton plays point-center.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 11, 2025, 11:49:04 AMParham belongs down low, not shooting 3s. Periodically, maybe, but he is not a consistent 3 point threat.
Write a letter Willard.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 11, 2025, 12:43:35 PMOnly if Hamilton plays point-center.
Oh man just shuddered thinking of our center (forget the name now) bringing up the ball versus a brutal full court press when Diener was injured. Prob had 25+ turnovers that game.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on February 11, 2025, 12:52:57 PMOh man just shuddered thinking of our center (forget the name now) bringing up the ball versus a brutal full court press when Diener was injured. Prob had 25+ turnovers that game.
RJax? Or was it someone else. Probably after that...Marcus Jackson?
Marcus Jackson, IIRC. JUCo transfer? Low post banger?
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 10:53:00 AMAs mentioned, he's dealing with shin problems, so if he's hurt, sure. If he's available he's the starter and that won't change.
Should he be OUT at any point due to injury, the defense would take a noticable hit. He's very impactful defensively and his presence alone helps this team regardless of the numbers he's accumulating.
could not disagree more. Gold is just a guy...and at this point just a guy would be better. If he's injured, sit him. If not injured, he regression is alarming. Start Parnham vs DeP regardless.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 10, 2025, 02:02:38 PMAgain, you are taking a very positive look on Sean without looking at his obvious short-comings.
...no pun intended, I assume 🤣
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2025, 12:55:38 PMMarcus Jackson, IIRC. JUCo transfer? Low post banger?
That was it... Marcus Jackson. Poor guy... never had a chance.
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2025, 12:55:38 PMMarcus Jackson, IIRC. JUCo transfer? Low post banger?
Yep, that was in the NIT loss to Western Michigan after Dameon Mason could not handle the job. That was one ugly game at a sparsely attended game at the BC. Was unfortunately there for it all.
Quote from: Nukem2 on February 11, 2025, 01:31:02 PMYep, that was in the NIT loss to Western Michigan after Dameon Mason could not handle the job. That was one ugly game at a sparsely attended game at the BC. Was unfortunately there for it all.
Me too.
There is some serious Backup QB Syndrome in this thread re Sean.
Yes.
Regarding center, things aren't looking so good for the near future but hopefully Clark surprises. He's got the height and length. Since this topic turned into discussing the starters for 25-26 I'm predicting it will be:
Jones, Lowery, Ross, Parham, Gold
next 5 up:
Norman, Owens, Hamilton, Stevens, Phillips
I would imagine 2 out of the 4 newcomers are rotation guys at some point in the year.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 11, 2025, 11:49:04 AMParham belongs down low, not shooting 3s. Periodically, maybe, but he is not a consistent 3 point threat.
LOL
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 11, 2025, 04:47:22 PMLOL
Careful. You get yelled at for thinking Parham is capable of shooting from outside and stretching the floor around here.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 11, 2025, 04:54:50 PMCareful. You get yelled at for thinking Parham is capable of shooting from outside and stretching the floor around here.
Coaches will happily live with Royce Parham hoisting 3s. He's a 29% 3 point shooter, and a freshman off the bench no less. Much more efficient inside.
Quote from: Markusquette on February 11, 2025, 04:30:35 PMRegarding center, things aren't looking so good for the near future but hopefully Clark surprises. He's got the height and length. Since this topic turned into discussing the starters for 25-26 I'm predicting it will be:
Jones, Lowery, Ross, Parham, Gold
next 5 up:
Norman, Owens, Hamilton, Stevens, Phillips
I would imagine 2 out of the 4 newcomers are rotation guys at some point in the year.
[/quote
I can see Norman being the odd man out even though Shaka seems to like him. Last game he had 2 wide open threes and was not close. When he does score it is a surprise to all of us, really a weak link
Owens, Chase, Zaide, Royce, Ben
#SoBig
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 11, 2025, 04:47:22 PMLOL
Since BE play started, Parham is 37.9% from 3...but willie has feelings.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 11, 2025, 12:52:11 PMWrite a letter Willard.
Aha. Another reeker sycophant. Another ignore button.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 11, 2025, 05:12:45 PMOwens, Chase, Zaide, Royce, Ben
#SoBig
So versatile. I keep landing on Zaide as the fifth starter, along with my etched in stone 4. And then I talk myself into Tre/Sean at the point with Zaide being a super sub. Seriously conflicted.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 11, 2025, 04:57:41 PMCoaches will happily live with Royce Parham hoisting 3s. He's a 29% 3 point shooter, and a freshman off the bench no less. Much more efficient inside.
Parham is shooting much better than that during the conference season.
Also, guys often improve as 3-point shooters - even, as you well know, Tyler Kolek!
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 11, 2025, 11:54:12 AMWe need to start Sean Jones at center. Tonight.
Hank Raymonds regularly had Artie Green jump for the opening tip, and Hank also used Green as the inside rebounder on opponents' FTs.
But at 6-1, Artie woulda towered over Sean Jones!
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 11, 2025, 12:52:11 PMWrite a letter Willard.
Wingdings is putting you on ignore. You lack the basketball knowledge of someone who has been a fan since Eisenhower was banging Virginia McCaskey in the Oval Office and compares Marquette players to orifices or dung
So freaking jealous.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 11, 2025, 05:07:33 PMI can see Norman being the odd man out even though Shaka seems to like him. Last game he had 2 wide open threes and was not close. When he does score it is a surprise to all of us, really a weak link
I do agree. It's possible one of the younger guards could leapfrog him in the rotation. I want to be optimistic but at this point in his second year I was expecting more progress. Lowery on the other hand is starting to show more hence slotting him in the SL.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 10, 2025, 12:17:45 PMWhy do you say this with any certainty? He was the the 8th or 9th best player on the team last year before tearing his ACL. He has two memorable games and one of them was the result of Creighton sagging off of him while he banked in threes.
He is 5'9" and shoots under 29% from three.
I agree with your point, but he didn't bank in any threes against Creighton.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 11, 2025, 06:41:13 PMI agree with your point, but he didn't bank in any threes against Creighton.
And?
Returning starters Chase and Ben are two obvious starters next year.
Royce and Zaide have been improving so much lately that they have separated from the rest of the bench, so they slot in next. It wouldn't surprise me if Owens has a great offseason and challenges Zaide, but right now Zaide looks more reliable.
I am not a fan of the proposed Chase, Zaide, Owens group. Need a primary ball handler to initiate the offense. Sean's the veteran. We will see if Nigel can challenge him. I am not convinced Tre is a PG.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 11, 2025, 06:41:13 PMI agree with your point, but he didn't bank in any threes against Creighton.
What game were they sagging of of him when he banked them in? might be UCLA then I thought it was a blue team
Quote from: jfp61 on February 11, 2025, 09:37:58 PMWhat game were they sagging of of him when he banked them in? might be UCLA then I thought it was a blue team
I think that was Seton Hall
Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2025, 05:24:41 PMHank Raymonds regularly had Artie Green jump for the opening tip, and Hank also used Green as the inside rebounder on opponents' FTs.
But at 6-1, Artie woulda towered over Sean Jones!
Artie's haymaker slams were worth the ticket price
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 11, 2025, 11:27:07 PMI think that was Seton Hall
I think so too. I still don't think he banked in any threes, but he hit ones end of shot clock prayer that I remember.
Starting 5
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Parham
Gold
First off bench
Owens
Norman
Hamilton
Amadou
Next up/spot minutes
Clark
James
Stevens
Phillips
Militec
Assuming no changes to the team. The minutes for the starters and the first ups will be very similar and Shaka will probably ride the guys who are playing well. Ross will have the most minutes.
Won't win a BE game next season
Definitely will test the relationships, growth, no transfers, and victory model.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 13, 2025, 07:41:13 AMWon't win a BE game next season
I'm glad the patented February fade will be a November nosedive instead
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 13, 2025, 07:27:48 AMStarting 5
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Parham
Gold
First off bench
Owens
Norman
Hamilton
Amadou
Next up/spot minutes
Clark
James
Stevens
Phillips
Militec
Assuming no changes to the team. The minutes for the starters and the first ups will be very similar and Shaka will probably ride the guys who are playing well. Ross will have the most minutes.
I am optimistic about that rotation after another offseason of growth and development.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 13, 2025, 07:27:48 AMStarting 5
Jones
Ross
Lowery
Parham
Gold
First off bench
Owens
Norman
Hamilton
Amadou
Next up/spot minutes
Clark
James
Stevens
Phillips
Militec
Assuming no changes to the team. The minutes for the starters and the first ups will be very similar and Shaka will probably ride the guys who are playing well. Ross will have the most minutes.
I pretty much agree with this. I am curious as to what Clark can bring. Imagining a defense that can turn teams over like our current team does, but has someone who can protect the rim and at least challenge shots at the rim when those turnovers doesn't happen would be really nice. I don't expect him to see many minutes, but if he could be ahead of schedule that is a game changer defensively.
Next season will certainly be a different kind of experience from the past three years. I think Gold has to remain at the 5 spot, Parham will slide into Jop's spot, and the rest of the starting five will be Ross, Lowery, and either Norman or Jones. Owens should be ready to play some significant minutes next year, and Hamilton will likely still be limited to spot minutes here and there. I suspect the freshmen will get more minutes than usual next year simply because Shaka is going to have to force feed them so they are ready to contribute when conference games start. It may not be the most successful year in terms of wins, but it will be fun to watch.
If Norman's a starter next year we'll have problems.
Quote from: Superfan on February 13, 2025, 11:54:21 AMIf Norman's a starter next year we'll have problems.
If Norman is still enrolled we'll have problems
Quote from: Superfan on February 13, 2025, 11:54:21 AMIf Norman's a starter next year we'll have problems.
'We'll'. Who? Scoopers? This will be as close to an open competition for a starting position as MU has seen in the Shaka era. Whoever starts at PG will have earned it by outplaying multiple others. It could be Sean or Tre. I can picture scenarios where it is Chase or DO. A rare for the Shaka era wild card.
And, being scoop, whoever earns the starting nod will be ripped.
Quote from: Superfan on February 13, 2025, 11:54:21 AMIf Norman's a starter next year we'll have problems.
I'd PEG this as a fairly good prossibility — that Tre starts.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 13, 2025, 12:32:09 PMI'd PEG this as a fairly good prossibility — that Tre starts.
JB, state your case. I agree, but I want to see your work.
I hope Tre starts which means he can make an outside shot, 20 percent from three and 35 percent from the free throw line will not cut it moving forward
IMO, if Tre gets significant and consistent time next year, both metrics will improve dramatically. I also think that year 2 of "Rolls Royce" will be fun to watch. Now back to the upcoming battle with the dreaded Hall...
Shaka has never really had a PG competition at Marquette. It was gonna be Kolek the second TK agreed to transfer from George Mason, and then it was obviously gonna be Kam this season.
So what happens at PG next season should be real interesting to watch.
Sean vs Tre seems too obvious, especially given the question marks and limitations each carries. Shaka has let Owens play point in limited stretches this season. And despite my tendency to dismiss the notion of a freshman getting significant minutes, I do wonder if James just might be that rare frosh who forces Shaka to play him.
Quote from: PJDunn on February 13, 2025, 01:45:17 PMIMO, if Tre gets significant and consistent time next year, both metrics will improve dramatically. I also think that year 2 of "Rolls Royce" will be fun to watch. Now back to the upcoming battle with the dreaded Hall...
Hoping Parnham takes a Justin Lewis like jump.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 13, 2025, 03:39:01 PMHoping Parnham takes a Justin Lewis like jump.
That would be awesome. I kinda like them as a comparison too. Not totally alike, but some very interesting similarities.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 13, 2025, 03:54:00 PMThat would be awesome. I kinda like them as a comparison too. Not totally alike, but some very interesting similarities.
I hope whoever Parnham is, he has the grades to get in
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 13, 2025, 03:39:01 PMHoping Parnham takes a Justin Lewis like jump.
Or a Brendan Bailey-like jump, because it's fun to compare Parnham and Bailey.
Speaking of next year's center, it's interesting that Gold arguably has been a better player than Jonas Aidoo. MU fans were pretty excited when he committed and he was highly rated by the recruiting services. They were bummed when he went elsewhere. In the grand scheme, the worry seems to have been misplaced.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 13, 2025, 01:35:01 PMI hope Tre starts which means he can make an outside shot, 20 percent from three and 35 percent from the free throw line will not cut it moving forward
Alarming fact: Tre has already made more 3 point shots in his career than Derrick Wilson made in 4 years. And Derrick played 80% of minutes his junior and senior years. What were Buzz and Wojo thinking? 8-)
That aside Tre is a bully ball kind of 2 guard. I expect he will take a step forward next year and will finish pretty well in the paint. His 3 ball will be suspect if he's not able to re-work it this summer. Whoever helped Kolek re-work his shot needs to work with Tre all summer. Tre is well liked by Shaka and his teammates and has a winning pedigree. I'm hopeful, despite the early returns harkening back to the Derrick Wilson days.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 15, 2025, 10:08:48 PMAlarming fact: Tre has already made more 3 point shots in his career than Derrick Wilson made in 4 years. And Derrick played 80% of minutes his junior and senior years. What were Buzz and Wojo thinking? 8-)
That aside Tre is a bully ball kind of 2 guard. I expect he will take a step forward next year and will finish pretty well in the paint. His 3 ball will be suspect if he's not able to re-work it this summer. Whoever helped Kolek re-work his shot needs to work with Tre all summer. Tre is well liked by Shaka and his teammates and has a winning pedigree. I'm hopeful, despite the early returns harkening back to the Derrick Wilson days.
Pathetic
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 15, 2025, 10:08:48 PMAlarming fact: Tre has already made more 3 point shots in his career than Derrick Wilson made in 4 years. And Derrick played 80% of minutes his junior and senior years. What were Buzz and Wojo thinking? 8-)
That aside Tre is a bully ball kind of 2 guard. I expect he will take a step forward next year and will finish pretty well in the paint. His 3 ball will be suspect if he's not able to re-work it this summer. Whoever helped Kolek re-work his shot needs to work with Tre all summer. Tre is well liked by Shaka and his teammates and has a winning pedigree. I'm hopeful, despite the early returns harkening back to the Derrick Wilson days.
Interesting comparison between Derrick and Tre. A similar discussion was had recently by several MU alums that I know who follow MU basketball closely. They all stated unequivocally that Derrick was the better player at this stage in their careers.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 16, 2025, 12:23:55 AMInteresting comparison between Derrick and Tre. A similar discussion was had recently by several MU alums that I know who follow MU basketball closely. They all stated unequivocally that Derrick was the better player at this stage in their careers.
I'd agree with that, but Tre has a far higher ceiling.
I have trouble understanding how anyone sees Chase Ross as a pg. Granted, he makes a good pass every now and then, but he does not have the handle to be a pg. But, I do wonder if Shaka is looking at Owens as a possibility.
A season ago, did you think Kam could handle the point? Growth.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 16, 2025, 12:23:55 AMInteresting comparison between Derrick and Tre. A similar discussion was had recently by several MU alums that I know who follow MU basketball closely. They all stated unequivocally that Derrick was the better player at this stage in their careers.
I concur. I don't think Ners comparison is off-base. Derrick played better defense, Tre already finishes surprisingly well at the rim.
Derrick somehow became a decent to good 3-point shooter post-Marquette, but Tre really, really needs to rework his form in a way Derrick never had to.
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on February 16, 2025, 10:21:41 AMI concur. I don't think Ners comparison is off-base. Derrick played better defense, Tre already finishes surprisingly well at the rim.
Derrick somehow became a decent to good 3-point shooter post-Marquette, but Tre really, really needs to rework his form in a way Derrick never had to.
[/quote
Your discussing 2 of the worse shooters in MU history, I saw better 6 grade shooters yesterday that were better then those 2 kids. I wonder what Shaka saw knowing his style of play when recruiting Tre in high school? And the suppose guru of Shooting, Nevada Smith, what's he up to work with him, his form is way off!
I don't really view Tre as giving us significant minutes next year. I am not seeing anything that he does well enough to indicate he is a BE guard. Shooting, ball handling, athleticism, are just OK. If he is getting a lot of playing time next year, think we are in trouble. With Zaide, he is a good athlete and has a nice shot. I see the upside. Am I missing something or are we just hoping Tre makes the jump w another year.
Quote from: Captain Quette on February 16, 2025, 02:14:32 PMI don't really view Tre as giving us significant minutes next year. I am not seeing anything that he does well enough to indicate he is a BE guard. Shooting, ball handling, athleticism, are just OK. If he is getting a lot of playing time next year, think we are in trouble. With Zaide, he is a good athlete and has a nice shot. I see the upside. Am I missing something or are we just hoping Tre makes the jump w another year.
Historically, players under Shaka don't get better
Quote from: Captain Quette on February 16, 2025, 02:14:32 PMI don't really view Tre as giving us significant minutes next year. I am not seeing anything that he does well enough to indicate he is a BE guard. Shooting, ball handling, athleticism, are just OK. If he is getting a lot of playing time next year, think we are in trouble. With Zaide, he is a good athlete and has a nice shot. I see the upside. Am I missing something or are we just hoping Tre makes the jump w another year.
He likely will be our best perimeter defender next season.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 16, 2025, 02:21:11 PMHe likely will be our best perimeter defender next season.
Tre over Chase, Zaide, and Sean? Eeeeehhhhh
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 16, 2025, 02:24:07 PMTre over Chase, Zaide, and Sean? Eeeeehhhhh
Zaide for sure. Sean's an unknown. Good point on Chase.
Regardless he plays very well on the defensive side of the floor.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 16, 2025, 02:34:07 PMZaide for sure. Sean's an unknown. Good point on Chase.
Regardless he plays very well on the defensive side of the floor.
I agree. He is a bully out there, and really looks like he belongs when he plays that way on the offensive end too. Idk if I can get there on him being better than Zaide on defense, but I'd love to see them both continue to get even better. Zaide is damn near elite defensively with his quickness, length, versatility and vertical ability.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 16, 2025, 02:17:38 PMHistorically, players under Shaka don't get better
Lots of grey area here. I'm confident Shaka is a coach that will get every ounce of potential out of all his players. Some players just have more talent to extract than others.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 16, 2025, 02:43:39 PMLots of grey area here. I'm confident Shaka is a coach that will get every ounce of potential out of all his players. Some players just have more talent to extract than others.
More than anything, I hope Tre has a healthy off-season and no physical setbacks
Do you think Tre's ceiling is a Steve Mitchell type career? Which I would be fine with.
Quote from: Captain Quette on February 16, 2025, 02:46:54 PMDo you think Tre's ceiling is a Steve Mitchell type career? Which I would be fine with.
Stevie showed more offensively by this point. Stevie did shoot about 26 or 27% from 3 last year and is 35% this year. Tre would have to take a giant leap to match that.
I don't think we know his ceiling because of him being injured in camp. He needs to show a lot more, everyone agrees on that but I wouldn't give up on him
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 16, 2025, 02:44:26 PMMore than anything, I hope Tre has a healthy off-season and no physical setbacks
Agreed.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 16, 2025, 02:37:45 PMI agree. He is a bully out there, and really looks like he belongs when he plays that way on the offensive end too. Idk if I can get there on him being better than Zaide on defense, but I'd love to see them both continue to get even better. Zaide is damn near elite defensively with his quickness, length, versatility and vertical ability.
You focus too much on on-ball and not enough off. That's why he gets playing time now.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 16, 2025, 02:51:20 PMStevie showed more offensively by this point. Stevie did shoot about 26 or 27% from 3 last year and is 35% this year. Tre would have to take a giant leap to match that.
I don't think we know his ceiling because of him being injured in camp. He needs to show a lot more, everyone agrees on that but I wouldn't give up on him
Stevie also started and got the minutes to help settle in. I think we really probably won't know about Tre until we see him next year.
I know we like to joke about the midrange, but his game in HS was very much attack the basket and mid-range centric.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 16, 2025, 02:52:14 PMYou focus too much on on-ball and not enough off. That's why he gets playing time now.
Idk. When I watch Zaide I see a great defender in all aspects. On ball, off ball, you name it. He guards the opponents best on the perimeter, he even blocked Kalkbrenner at the rim twice last year just minutes apart from one another, he gets steals. He seems to be a 5 tool defender.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 16, 2025, 02:57:59 PMIdk. When I watch Zaide I see a great defender in all aspects. On ball, off ball, you name it. He guards the opponents best on the perimeter, he even blocked Kalkbrenner at the rim twice last year just minutes apart from one another, he gets steals. He seems to be a 5 tool defender.
The biggest issue with Tre next year is that on the offensive end looks weak right now. So can you have a weak shooter playing a lot when the other 4 have there own weaknesses?
I'm not a shot doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...
Tre has too much motion in his mechanics. If he'd lower the release point a few inches, the shot would be a lot more compact and clean. Raising it as high as he does just introduces too many variables into the release. It's also easier to put a little more arc under it with a slightly lower release.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 16, 2025, 03:03:10 PMThe biggest issue with Tre next year is that on the offensive end looks weak right now. So can you have a weak shooter playing a lot when the other 4 have there own weaknesses?
I don't think he's necessarily been horrible on offense. He's just been a horrible shooter from distance. I would think he has nowhere but up to go from outside, but it is a fair question.
It'll be interesting to see for sure. They are bringing in some guys that profile as elite shooters in Militec and Phillips, but every conversation we have seems to think the Freshman will be at the bottom of the depth chart like many of our Freshman have.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 16, 2025, 02:57:59 PMIdk. When I watch Zaide I see a great defender in all aspects. On ball, off ball, you name it. He guards the opponents best on the perimeter, he even blocked Kalkbrenner at the rim twice last year just minutes apart from one another, he gets steals. He seems to be a 5 tool defender.
Here is the sequence I was talking about. Probably my favorite of his career so far. Out on the perimeter on Ashworth, switch dribble handoffs, blocking Kalkbrenner weak side, blocking Kalkbrenner off a switch, drilling a catch and shoot 3.
Beautiful stuff.
https://x.com/BenSteeleMJS/status/1852770756960141607?t=N4nnz7h1rZfGMcYuxoVSxQ&s=19
Quote from: Captain Quette on February 16, 2025, 02:14:32 PMI don't really view Tre as giving us significant minutes next year. I am not seeing anything that he does well enough to indicate he is a BE guard. Shooting, ball handling, athleticism, are just OK. If he is getting a lot of playing time next year, think we are in trouble. With Zaide, he is a good athlete and has a nice shot. I see the upside. Am I missing something or are we just hoping Tre makes the jump w another year.
What is this disgusting comment? oso did nothing his first year and then became a star. That means tre will be 100 percent a super star next season and this eeyore comment is ridiculous. you haven't seen enough in him yet? What a joke. You clearly hate him and the program. How dare you even hint at the idea he isn't a sure fire super star next season. How dare you offer honest harmless thoughts. tre is the goat
Quote from: Johnny B on February 16, 2025, 03:55:09 PMWhat is this disgusting comment? oso did nothing his first year and then became a star. That means tre will be 100 percent a super star next season and this eeyore comment is ridiculous. you haven't seen enough in him yet? What a joke. You clearly hate him and the program. How dare you even hint at the idea he isn't a sure fire super star next season. How dare you offer honest harmless thoughts. tre is the goat
??? There's a reason he's the first sub off the bench now. I don't know what he means by "significant minutes," but he's definitely in the rotation.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 16, 2025, 02:21:11 PMHe likely will be our best perimeter defender next season.
Those tend to be dung.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 16, 2025, 03:55:09 PMWhat is this disgusting comment? oso did nothing his first year and then became a star. That means tre will be 100 percent a super star next season and this eeyore comment is ridiculous. you haven't seen enough in him yet? What a joke. You clearly hate him and the program. How dare you even hint at the idea he isn't a sure fire super star next season. How dare you offer honest harmless thoughts. tre is the goat
If someone actually responded like that to his post this would come off as much less stupid. However, no one did so here we are.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 16, 2025, 03:55:09 PMWhat is this disgusting comment? oso did nothing his first year and then became a star. That means tre will be 100 percent a super star next season and this eeyore comment is ridiculous. you haven't seen enough in him yet? What a joke. You clearly hate him and the program. How dare you even hint at the idea he isn't a sure fire super star next season. How dare you offer honest harmless thoughts. tre is the goat
Good try at sarcasm, Johnny. Now have another shot of tequila!
Quote from: MU82 on February 16, 2025, 05:44:13 PMGood try at sarcasm, Johnny. Now have another shot of tequila!
U got some?
Tre's got potential, but he needs to show more, especially on offense. Zaide's defense is solid, though.
I think everyone can agree that Chase and Ben will start next season.
I think Royce is the next most likely option to start.
And then you'll have Sean, Tre, Nigel, Zaide, and Damarius competing for the other 2 spots.
As of today I'd lean Sean and Zaide. Damarius might have the biggest upside so if he has a great summer that wouldn't surprise me, either.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 16, 2025, 03:55:09 PMWhat is this disgusting comment? oso did nothing his first year and then became a star. That means tre will be 100 percent a super star next season and this eeyore comment is ridiculous. you haven't seen enough in him yet? What a joke. You clearly hate him and the program. How dare you even hint at the idea he isn't a sure fire super star next season. How dare you offer honest harmless thoughts. tre is the goat
Tre playing significant minutes next year will tell me our incoming freshmen guards are overrated.
Quote from: bilsu on February 17, 2025, 09:21:08 AMTre playing significant minutes next year will tell me our incoming freshmen guards are overrated.
Or, more logically, it means Tre had a good summer and improved considerably.
It would tell me that Tre is a junior and freshmen are freshmen. Trust growth, assume the freshmen have to go through their process.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 17, 2025, 09:22:54 AMOr, more logically, it means Tre had a good summer and improved considerably.
Bilsu hasn't been happy since Shaka got hired
Quote from: bilsu on February 17, 2025, 09:21:08 AMTre playing significant minutes next year will tell me our incoming freshmen guards are overrated.
We do this every year with the freshmen. You'd think we'd learn at some point.
But its not hard to see why a junior, with two years experience under his belt, would be ahead of three freshmen who aren't one and done types. But I guess we had people suggesting *this off-season* that Stevie might lose his starting spot, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Quote from: tower912 on February 17, 2025, 09:26:00 AMIt would tell me that Tre is a junior and freshmen are freshmen. Trust growth, assume the freshmen have to go through their process.
Tre has a leg up on any freshmen coming in, even if he doesn't look the part right now. Experience, size, going through the process at a collegiate level all matter.
Which is the reason why so many programs are recruiting the transfer portal over freshmen.
Quote from: bilsu on February 17, 2025, 09:21:08 AMTre playing significant minutes next year will tell me our incoming freshmen guards are overrated.
You said the same about Kolek near the end of his first season at MU.
Quote from: bilsu on February 17, 2025, 09:21:08 AMTre playing significant minutes next year will tell me our incoming freshmen guards are overrated.
Longing for the days of Traci Carter?
Quote from: Captain Quette on February 16, 2025, 02:46:54 PMDo you think Tre's ceiling is a Steve Mitchell type career? Which I would be fine with.
Tre is not nearly as good as Stevie was as a sophomore. If Sean was healthy, Tre would probably play about as much as Caedin.
Sometimes coaches just flat out miss on an evaluation. That's what I think happened here.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on February 17, 2025, 11:12:15 AMTre is not nearly as good as Stevie was as a sophomore. If Sean was healthy, Tre would probably play about as much as Caedin.
Sometimes coaches just flat out miss on an evaluation. That's what I think happened here.
Yet he somehow is the first sub off the bench nearly every game.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 17, 2025, 11:15:10 AMYet he somehow is the first sub off the bench nearly every game.
Minutes played is a better indicator than first off the bench.
Here are the total bench minutes from the recent UConn, St. John's, and Creighton stretch:
Parham 67
Lowery 56
Owens 24
Norman 16
Hamilton 9
Those are all NCAA tournament caliber teams. To me, it's easy to see Shaka going to a 7 man rotation in the tournament. The starters, Parham, and Lowery are it. Spot minutes for Owens, Norman, and Hamilton.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 17, 2025, 09:26:52 AMWe do this every year with the freshmen. You'd think we'd learn at some point.
But its not hard to see why a junior, with two years experience under his belt, would be ahead of three freshmen who aren't one and done types. But I guess we had people suggesting *this off-season* that Stevie might lose his starting spot, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Stevie will definitely lose his starting spot next year though.
Quote from: bilsu on February 17, 2025, 09:21:08 AMTre playing significant minutes next year will tell me our incoming freshmen guards are overrated.
LOL
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 17, 2025, 11:57:18 AMStevie will definitely lose his starting spot next year though.
Brilliant. Absolutely love it.
BCHoopster doesn't see an alpha scorer next season. I see 4 who potentially can do it. Ross, Owens, Parham, Gold.
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2025, 01:42:44 PMBCHoopster doesn't see an alpha scorer next season. I see 4 who potentially can do it. Ross, Owens, Parham, Gold.
I'd guess Parham, followed by some combination of Owens or Lowery.
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2025, 01:42:44 PMBrilliant. Absolutely love it.
BCHoopster doesn't see an alpha scorer next season. I see 4 who potentially can do it. Ross, Owens, Parham, Gold.
Gold, dreaming, Owens has a hard time creating his own shot, agree Ross might score around 18 next year, Parham maybe 12-14. Talking about Owens, is Shaka hurting him or helping him. Looked very impressive in the scrimmage, since then not much
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 01:57:58 PMGold, dreaming, Owens has a hard time creating his own shot, agree Ross might score around 18 next year, Parham maybe 12-14. Talking about Owens, is Shaka hurting him or helping him. Looked very impressive in the scrimmage, since then not much
That toe injury really set Owens back, unfortunately.
Chase seems the most obvious pick, but he'll need to stop picking up dumb fouls and finish more consistently at the rim.
Quote from: wombataholic on February 18, 2025, 01:56:47 PMI'd guess Parham, followed by some combination of Owens or Lowery.
Chase?
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 18, 2025, 02:00:22 PMThat toe injury really set Owens back, unfortunately.
Chase seems the most obvious pick, but he'll need to stop picking up dumb fouls and finish more consistently at the rim.
So did missing a month with the groin.
If the game slows down a bit more for Owens, and it should, he's going to be a beast.
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2025, 01:42:44 PMBrilliant. Absolutely love it.
BCHoopster doesn't see an alpha scorer next season. I see 4 who potentially can do it. Ross, Owens, Parham, Gold.
Ben has the skill. I'm starting to think he may never get his confidence right while he's at MU though. Seeing improvements but he needs to take a big step next year in that regard. If he does, he's going to be really fun to watch.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 18, 2025, 02:14:22 PMIf the game slows down a bit more for Owens, and it should, he's going to be a beast.
There have been enough glimpses to show that an offseason of growth and a few more pounds of muscle will lead to him being a problem for other teams.
I thought he would be 6th man, Swiss army knife, by the end of the season. Preseason injuries derailed that. Alas.
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2025, 01:42:44 PMBrilliant. Absolutely love it.
BCHoopster doesn't see an alpha scorer next season. I see 4 who potentially can do it. Ross, Owens, Parham, Gold.
I am bullish on Lowery for a strong scoring role too. Maybe not alpha--still think that Chase is that. The teams aren't really built for that anyways--going to be a lot more balanced scoring going forward.
I see Lowery in a 3 and D role as a junior, similar to Chase as a sophomore.
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2025, 01:42:44 PMBrilliant. Absolutely love it.
BCHoopster doesn't see an alpha scorer next season. I see 4 who potentially can do it. Ross, Owens, Parham, Gold.
Well Tower, you just went off the rails with the prediction of Gold potentially being an alpha scorer.
Phew
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 01:57:58 PMGold, dreaming, Owens has a hard time creating his own shot, agree Ross might score around 18 next year, Parham maybe 12-14. Talking about Owens, is Shaka hurting him or helping him. Looked very impressive in the scrimmage, since then not much
"...is Shaka hurting him..." Cmon...what are we doing here.
He's been injured. And scrimmages aren't games.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 18, 2025, 02:58:59 PMYou did that on purpose.
Sometimes, I just do stuff to make myself laugh.
Without an alpha scorer, next year's team will struggle to score 50.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on February 18, 2025, 03:16:44 PMWithout an alpha scorer, next year's team will struggle to score 50.
Nice throwback.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 01:57:58 PMTalking about Owens, is Shaka hurting him or helping him. Looked very impressive in the scrimmage, since then not much
Please share with us what I'm sure were totally accurate (and optimistic) predictions of the players Kolek and Oso would become after one year in Shaka's program. Thanks!
I mean, if Shaka and his assistants have proven one thing over and over, it's that players never, ever improve under their watch. Kolek, Oso, Kam, Stevie, Ross, Joplin, OMax, Lowery - not a single one of them got better after Year 1.
Quote from: MU82 on February 18, 2025, 04:07:44 PMPlease share with us what I'm sure were totally accurate (and optimistic) predictions of the players Kolek and Oso would become after one year in Shaka's program. Thanks!
I mean, if Shaka and his assistants have proven one thing over and over, it's that players never, ever improve under their watch. Kolek, Oso, Kam, Stevie, Ross, Joplin, OMax, Lowery - not a single one of them got better after Year 1.
So what do you think Owens will average next year?
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 04:48:15 PMSo what do you think Owens will average next year?
6.9 ppg, 4.20 rpg
10 ish
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 18, 2025, 04:52:37 PM6.9 ppg, 4.20 rpg
Do Ramsey now, I hear he is coming back.
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 18, 2025, 05:33:15 PMMinutes?
Points. He is the wild card, the stereotypical 2 ppg scorer that Shaka would rather develop than bring in an 18 ppg from the Big Sky conference. I think he will make a huge leap.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 04:48:15 PMSo what do you think Owens will average next year?
I have no idea. We'll see how much he improves. I'd expect it'll be a pretty good amount.
See, I learned pretty quickly to trust Shaka's ability to develop players. And until Shaka gives me reason not to, I'll continue trusting him. I look at all the guys I mentioned and think it's common sense to believe Owens will be better - and quite possibly much better - next season.
The better question is: Given the results Shaka has delivered so far, why do you distrust him so?
Indeed. BC, what have you seen that indicates Shaka is holding Owens back or doesn't develop players?
Won't surprise me one bit if Owens averages double figures next season.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 18, 2025, 06:32:58 PMWon't surprise me one bit if Owens averages double figures next season.
In what? Missed shots?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 18, 2025, 06:33:37 PMIn what? Missed shots?
Should start a poll on Willie's nickname for Owens next season.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 18, 2025, 06:36:13 PMShould start a poll on Willie's nickname for Owens next season.
Darren
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2025, 05:52:05 PMIndeed. BC, what have you seen that indicates Shaka is holding Owens back or doesn't develop players?
He's been playing him more as a point guard, not sold that's his best position. Taking a 6'8" forward and playing him with the ball in his hands is not easy. I think Owens is more of a slasher, needs to get the ball more in the paint. Needs to get stronger and gain some weight, that will happen. Shaka has to get him and Gold better opportunites to score.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 18, 2025, 06:36:13 PMShould start a poll on Willie's nickname for Owens next season.
Dumbassious
OK. But many reports from the scrimmage you reference had Owens playing point. Other reports from various posters on various boards indicated the same. Clearly, the coaching staff sees potential and opportunity to really have a unicorn player going forward.
I know you are not sold on Tre. That is OK, I am not sold on Sean. Which is why I referenced the possibility of Chase, Zaide, Owens all starting. I am not going to guarantee it, but I can definitely picture it.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 18, 2025, 06:36:13 PMShould start a poll on Willie's nickname for Owens next season.
"Rent free"
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2025, 06:44:44 PMOK. But many reports from the scrimmage you reference had Owens playing point. Other reports from various posters on various boards indicated the same. Clearly, the coaching staff sees potential and opportunity to really have a unicorn player going forward.
I know you are not sold on Tre. That is OK, I am not sold on Sean. Which is why I referenced the possibility of Chase, Zaide, Owens all starting. I am not going to guarantee it, but I can definitely picture it.
Agreed
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 06:38:56 PMHe's been playing him more as a point guard, not sold that's his best position. Taking a 6'8" forward and playing him with the ball in his hands is not easy. I think Owens is more of a slasher, needs to get the ball more in the paint. Needs to get stronger and gain some weight, that will happen. Shaka has to get him and Gold better opportunites to score.
Again, why do you doubt that Owens can develop and improve under this coaching staff?
Quote from: MU82 on February 18, 2025, 07:15:25 PMAgain, why do you doubt that Owens can develop and improve under this coaching staff?
All kids improve from year to year, grandson is rated 2nd best 6 grader in the state, improvement, all the time. Improvement comes from playing 2 to 4 hours everyday, hope Owens feels the same way this summer
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 07:41:44 PMAll kids improve from year to year, grandson is rated 2nd best 6 grader in the state, improvement, all the time. Improvement comes from playing 2 to 4 hours everyday, hope Owens feels the same way this summer
2nd best 6th grader???????????
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 07:41:44 PMAll kids improve from year to year, grandson is rated 2nd best 6 grader in the state, improvement, all the time. Improvement comes from playing 2 to 4 hours everyday, hope Owens feels the same way this summer
"2nd best 6th grader in the state"
Oy.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 18, 2025, 04:52:37 PM6.9 ppg, 4.20 rpg
Quoting so Willie can see and figure this one out.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 07:41:44 PMAll kids improve from year to year, grandson is rated 2nd best 6 grader in the state, improvement, all the time. Improvement comes from playing 2 to 4 hours everyday, hope Owens feels the same way this summer
That is cool. Enjoy the process.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 18, 2025, 07:51:19 PMQuoting so Willie can see and figure this one out.
Dung reads that as 6.9 penises per game, 4.20 rectums prolapsed grandly
Quote from: MurphysTillClose on February 18, 2025, 07:48:48 PM2nd best 6th grader???????????
Yep, hard to believe they rank kids so early!
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 07:59:22 PMYep, hard to believe they rank kids so early!
Won MVP last 2 years at MU camps in the summer, no bad
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 08:01:09 PMWon MVP last 2 years at MU camps in the summer, no bad
That's awesome BC! Hope he keeps it up and more importantly keep growing. Have fun watching his development!
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 01:57:58 PMTalking about Owens, is Shaka hurting him or helping him.
Hmmmmm.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 07:41:44 PMAll kids improve from year to year, grandson is rated 2nd best 6 grader in the state, improvement, all the time. Improvement comes from playing 2 to 4 hours everyday, hope Owens feels the same way this summer
Congrats to your grandson, though I'm worried about rating 6th graders.
Otherwise, trying to figure out what Shaka ever did to you.
Quote from: MU82 on February 19, 2025, 01:33:58 AMCongrats to your grandson, though I'm worried about rating 6th graders.
Otherwise, trying to figure out what Shaka ever did to you.
It's pure stupidity, no reason too
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2025, 05:37:27 PMPoints. He is the wild card, the stereotypical 2 ppg scorer that Shaka would rather develop than bring in an 18 ppg from the Big Sky conference. I think he will make a huge leap.
My bad....thought we were referring to Tre.
Looking forward to everything that DO will bring.....this year and next.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 18, 2025, 07:59:22 PMYep, hard to believe they rank kids so early!
So, let us all hope for the best case scenario. That your grandson grows and develops and lives up to this way too early ranking.
What will you do when anonymous message board posters treat him like you have treated players over the last 10 years?
It won't be me. I root for them all.
I will be truthful about any player I see, a realist, all players have faults,
Love improvement. Can not wait to see Tre Norman become a decent shooter? Even he admits his outside shooting is weak. Grandson has a lot to work on but basketball is all about height, hope he is tall enough, skills like Tyler Kolek!
Will you be satisfied if he ends up like Derrick Wilson?
Quote from: DoctorV on February 21, 2025, 08:51:56 AMWill you be satisfied if he ends up like Derrick Wilson?
He is a better shooter right now than Derrick Wilson. Hit 4 3's in one of his games. Lacks consistency right now but that is expected
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 21, 2025, 09:19:38 AMHe is a better shooter right now than Derrick Wilson. Hit 4 3's in one of his games. Lacks consistency right now but that is expected
NM
I misread this.
All this time I thought BC was still talking about his 6th grade grandson
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 21, 2025, 02:11:14 PMAll this time I thought BC was still talking about his 6th grade grandson
I think he is.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 21, 2025, 08:45:43 AMI will be truthful about any player I see, a realist, all players have faults,
Love improvement. Can not wait to see Tre Norman become a decent shooter? Even he admits his outside shooting is weak. Grandson has a lot to work on but basketball is all about height, hope he is tall enough, skills like Tyler Kolek!
Last season I remember reading that Tre had spent time with Lillard working on his outside shot.
Then he comes out and drains one in the first minutes he's in the next game. Then went about a month without making another.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 21, 2025, 02:48:48 PMI think he is.
Going right from 6th grade to being next year's center?
Shaka getting it done on the recruiting trail.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 21, 2025, 08:45:43 AMI will be truthful about any player I see, a realist, all players have faults
You seem a lot more "truthful" and more of a "realist" about Marquette players than about any others. All of our guys struggle, all opposing players are gonna torch us.
IIRC you were truthful and realistic about Kolek and Oso when they were sophomores, too. Glad you were wrong about them, just as you're consistently wrong about the great work Shaka and his assistants have done developing players.
Quote from: MU82 on February 21, 2025, 04:29:27 PMYou seem a lot more "truthful" and more of a "realist" about Marquette players than about any others. All of our guys struggle, all opposing players are gonna torch us.
IIRC you were truthful and realistic about Kolek and Oso when they were sophomores, too. Glad you were wrong about them, just as you're consistently wrong about the great work Shaka and his assistants have done developing players.
We will for sure need development next year, I am very curious to see Clark and Amadou development. You must think I am stupid enough to realize that kids do not improve every year. One player that really improved from freshman to senior was Butch Lee, averaged 8.7 as a frosh, player of the year as a senior.
I'm still concerned about 2028, although it should be a championship year
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 21, 2025, 04:56:43 PMWe will for sure need development next year, I am very curious to see Clark and Amadou development. You must think I am stupid enough to realize that kids do not improve every year. One player that really improved from freshman to senior was Butch Lee, averaged 8.7 as a frosh, player of the year as a senior.
I don't think you're stupid. I think you don't trust Shaka despite a considerable body of evidence that we should trust him.
Next year's center?
The senior-to-be who has had 3 really good games in the last 12 days.
Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2025, 12:02:47 AMNext year's center?
The senior-to-be who has had 3 really good games in the last 12 days.
Brick slurper
It is nice to see him scoring. Shaka once again referenced the other 98% he has been doing well all along.
Quote from: tower912 on March 02, 2025, 10:45:46 AMIt is nice to see him scoring. Shaka once again referenced the other 98% he has been doing well all along.
Yep. Now if he could just get a facial expression like the one they kept showing of Jop going up for a "GTTF out of my way" dunk. With his training in Haku, he should have no problem with this. Enough of this "Excuse me. I would like to try to make a basket. If I miss, you're welcome to the rebound" look. No more Kiwi politeness on the court Ben.
We agree.
Ben will talk some sh*t. Ask Tonje. Want more of that!
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 02, 2025, 11:17:44 AMBen will talk some sh*t. Ask Tonje. Want more of that!
And he shut Crowl down.
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 02, 2025, 11:17:44 AMBen will talk some sh*t. Ask Tonje. Want more of that!
To be honest, it was a
very rare time when I actually hoped a MU player would get T'd up. I loved it!
Quote from: tower912 on March 02, 2025, 10:45:46 AMIt is nice to see him scoring. Shaka once again referenced the other 98% he has been doing well all along.
Respect to Shaka as always, but there were at least a couple games in which Gold's defense wasn't up to the standards he had set for himself. Maybe injuries, maybe just bad games, it happens. Good to see Ben's defense back, and some offense to go with it.
Gold broke a finger during the first game against Villanova. Could play on it but you can imagine how that could impact your shot amd getting your hands up for a block or a rebound. Looks like it took 3 to 4 weeks to heal. Hopefully this is the new normal going forward
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 02, 2025, 07:01:45 PMGold broke a finger during the first game against Villanova. Could play on it but you can imagine how that could impact your shot amd getting your hands up for a block or a rebound. Looks like it took 3 to 4 weeks to heal. Hopefully this is the new normal going forward
Source?
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 02, 2025, 07:01:45 PMGold broke a finger during the first game against Villanova. Could play on it but you can imagine how that could impact your shot amd getting your hands up for a block or a rebound. Looks like it took 3 to 4 weeks to heal. Hopefully this is the new normal going forward
Something wasn't right. Thanks TAMU. I actually still think his right leg was not the best either. Seemed to be limping on it during his funk. Looked better the last couple games with his rim runs.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 02, 2025, 07:14:53 PMSomething wasn't right. Thanks TAMU. I actually still think his right leg was not the best either. Seemed to be limping on it during his funk. Looked better the last couple games with his rim runs.
It might have been injuries or maybe the second half benching that took place at Nova.
Quote from: Big Papi on March 02, 2025, 08:07:14 PMIt might have been injuries or maybe the second half benching that took place at Nova.
First game against Nova.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 02, 2025, 07:01:45 PMGold broke a finger during the first game against Villanova. Could play on it but you can imagine how that could impact your shot amd getting your hands up for a block or a rebound. Looks like it took 3 to 4 weeks to heal. Hopefully this is the new normal going forward
Gold...finger...
You really expect us to fall for that?
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 02, 2025, 08:37:21 PMGold...finger...
You really expect us to fall for that?
LOL! Good one! We do podcasts on James Bond and spy movies, so this is really funny naha
A 6-11 senior-to-be center for a perennial top-25 program improved each season. A "stretch 5," he shot 38% from 3 as a junior in his first year as a starter after backing up a current NBA-er, and he played good defense. He entered the transfer portal.
Fans of any team - including Marquette - that landed a player with that history would be pretty darn happy.
Some fans of his current team would cheer his departure.
Now that we know the Center and power forward who are the backups then. At Center obvious Hamilton and Clark but who backups Parham at the Power forward?
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 03, 2025, 01:18:30 PMNow that we know the Center and power forward who are the backups then. At Center obvious Hamilton and Clark but who backups Parham at the Power forward?
My guess is they will go small at times, have Gold and Hamilton/Clark play together at times, and maybe Amadou will be ready for a larger role.
There will be times where Parham plays the 5, just like this year when he plays with Jop and 3 guards.
There might even be times where Marquette goes big, with Gold at the 4. That would depend on matchups and either Hamilton or Clark being good enough to pair with Ben.
Backing up Parham at the 4? Some Ben, some 3 wing sets with Zaide/Chase/DO, maybe some Amadou. Lots of fun pieces to mix and match.
https://x.com/coachshakasmart/status/1896704566361747485?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 02, 2025, 08:37:21 PMGold...finger...
You really expect us to fall for that?
🤷 Midas well.
Bravo.
Does that Big East player of the year article by paint touches give anyone concern about next year? The lack of a back up point guard this year really stands out. Sean may have been the answer to create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Hopefully he and James will be the answer there.
The other options like Tre, Chase and Owens don't seem to be legitimate answers at point guard unless the team wants to take a major step back in production and have a developmental year.
Last year when Kolek was out we had evidence that Kam could do it. If anything we have the opposite evidence this year.
Some don't like Sean on here or at least don't see him as an answer. But I am glad we have a fourth year true point guard in the system already and a true point guard even as a freshman as a backup next year. Hopefully that will limit the damage of Kam graduating.
NM
Circle of life. Assuming retention, MU will be fine next season.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2025, 10:39:52 AMCircle of life. Assuming retention, MU will be fine next season.
I agree. But here's a question: assuming MU stays ranked throughout the rest of this season, will 2025-26 pre-season and the Week 1 of next season's rankings include MU, extending the 4th (or higher) longest streak in the country? I doubt it.
Quote from: mug644 on March 05, 2025, 10:55:27 AMI agree. But here's a question: assuming MU stays ranked throughout the rest of this season, will 2025-26 pre-season and the Week 1 of next season's rankings include MU, extending the 4th (or higher) longest streak in the country? I doubt it.
Probably if chase has a big game or two where pundits point to him and say "he's going to take the reigns" or if we make another sweet 16 and people say "just buy into Shakas coaching" if we're a six seed and whimper out after graduating Jones then probably not.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 02, 2025, 07:14:53 PMSomething wasn't right. Thanks TAMU. I actually still think his right leg was not the best either. Seemed to be limping on it during his funk. Looked better the last couple games with his rim runs.
Yeah....those shin splints continue to show up. I hope Ben can manage for the remainder of the season.
Quote from: mug644 on March 05, 2025, 10:55:27 AMI agree. But here's a question: assuming MU stays ranked throughout the rest of this season, will 2025-26 pre-season and the Week 1 of next season's rankings include MU, extending the 4th (or higher) longest streak in the country? I doubt it.
I'm worried about THIS week. Lose once and we're probably teetering on the edge of being unranked. Lose both and we're definitely out.
Survive this week, make the second weekend, and don't have any shocking transfer in the offseason and we should be preseason Top 25 on reputation alone.
EDIT: Teams behind us in the top 25 have already won (including BIG wins by TAMU over Auburn and BYU over Iowa St), as has VCU who is knocking on the door. But the only other team even close to being ranked based on last week's vote is Vanderbilt and they took a loss. Even with two losses, we might be ok.
Quote from: mug644 on March 05, 2025, 10:55:27 AMI agree. But here's a question: assuming MU stays ranked throughout the rest of this season, will 2025-26 pre-season and the Week 1 of next season's rankings include MU, extending the 4th (or higher) longest streak in the country? I doubt it.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on March 05, 2025, 11:45:10 AMI'm worried about THIS week. Lose once and we're probably teetering on the edge of being unranked. Lose both and we're definitely out.
Survive this week, make the second weekend, and don't have any shocking transfer in the offseason and we should be preseason Top 25 on reputation alone.
We should fold the program once that streak is broken.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 05, 2025, 09:44:48 AMDoes that Big East player of the year article by paint touches give anyone concern about next year? The lack of a back up point guard this year really stands out. Sean may have been the answer to create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Hopefully he and James will be the answer there.
The other options like Tre, Chase and Owens don't seem to be legitimate answers at point guard unless the team wants to take a major step back in production and have a developmental year.
Last year when Kolek was out we had evidence that Kam could do it. If anything we have the opposite evidence this year.
Some don't like Sean on here or at least don't see him as an answer. But I am glad we have a fourth year true point guard in the system already and a true point guard even as a freshman as a backup next year. Hopefully that will limit the damage of Kam graduating.
It's a legit concern IMHO, but the optimist in me thinks that we'll get good (albeit not All-American level) PG play and that there will be plenty of talent elsewhere in the lineup to help the PG succeed.
Kolek was only a decent PG in 2021-22, and we still had a fun season.
Quote from: MU82 on March 05, 2025, 01:26:56 PMIt's a legit concern IMHO, but the optimist in me thinks that we'll get good (albeit not All-American level) PG play and that there will be plenty of talent elsewhere in the lineup to help the PG succeed.
Kolek was only a decent PG in 2021-22, and we still had a fun season.
Tyko was a quite decent PG in 21-22. His issue was his 28% 3 point shooting.
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 05, 2025, 01:32:45 PMTyko was a quite decent PG in 21-22. His issue was his 28% 3 point shooting.
I say he was "only decent," and you say he was "quite decent." So we at least agree that he was "decent."
TK shot 32% overall and 28% from 3. He averaged 6 assists but also 2.5 TOs. His shooting was so bad that opponents dared him to shoot - the way some have dared Stevie to shoot this season. He had trouble going right, and had no float game. Many of us said that for Marquette to take the next step in 2022-23, we would need better PG play - whether from TK or Sean Jones or a transfer.
Big-time credit to TK for working tirelessly on his shooting and all-around offensive game to become the great PG he turned out to be.
I see a lot of returning talent but most importantly I trust Shaka and staff. They've given us no reason not to.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2025, 06:09:22 PMI see a lot of returning talent but most importantly I trust Shaka and staff. They've given us no reason not to.
And that's why we are bound for toilet town
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 05, 2025, 06:31:26 PMAnd that's why we are bound for toilet town
I thought that's what Willie named his outhouse.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2025, 06:43:44 PMI thought that's what Willie named his outhouse.
He's moved onto adult diapers