To all who thought Ben might leave after his junior to go to the pros better realize Ben is really overmatched as a center. Always said he might be better as a wing. Time to start Parham and bench Ben. Ben has shown no improvement in many areas, for that you can blame the coaches.
I hope Clark can add something next year or Hamilton but not sold on him to be a difference maker. Another player, DO, saw him at the scrimmage and thought he would add to the team, but he has offered minimally oh well. Zaide coming on. Tre just a body with no shot.
Welcome back!
OF 712 D-I PLAYERS LISTED 6'8" OR TALLER, ONLY 1 HAS A DR% LOWER THAN ROYCE THIS SEASON. 710 HIGHER. 1 LOWER. (source: barttorvik.com query)
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 05, 2025, 08:22:02 AMOF 712 D-I PLAYERS LISTED 6'8" OR TALLER, ONLY 1 HAS A DR% LOWER THAN ROYCE THIS SEASON. 710 HIGHER. 1 LOWER. (source: barttorvik.com query)
You neglected to mention that you used a Min % floor of 30.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 05, 2025, 08:22:02 AMOF 712 D-I PLAYERS LISTED 6'8" OR TALLER, ONLY 1 HAS A DR% LOWER THAN ROYCE THIS SEASON. 710 HIGHER. 1 LOWER. (source: barttorvik.com query)
DOES THIS INCLUDE BACKTAPS?!?!?!
Lots of Ben Gold apologists quiet this past week
Quote from: Markusquette on February 05, 2025, 08:39:43 AMLots of Ben Gold apologists quiet this past week
Lots of Ben Gold haters coming out of the woodworks after being gone all season.
He did not play well last night. I believe in him and his ability to return to better form.
Quote from: Markusquette on February 05, 2025, 08:39:43 AMLots of Ben Gold apologists quiet this past week
Still here. Still believe. Ebbs and flows.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 05, 2025, 08:45:28 AMLots of Ben Gold haters coming out of the woodworks after being gone all season.
He did not play well last night. I believe in him and his ability to return to better form.
That is true. Ben playing poorly inspired NYG and BCHoopster to end their months long, self imposed exiles.
I believe in Ben but teams have figured him out. He cannot create his own shot and has a slow release. Defenses are rotating more quickly to him and pushing him further out on the perimeter when he gets the ball. His defense has improved so that's a positive. Right now I'm not sure how the offense gets him open like last season as there is no post like Oso to cause the defense to sag off Ben.
At the risk of exposing myself as not knowing ball, I don't see the defensive prowess that is often cited here as Ben's best attribute. I don't want to just join the hate parade, and the biggest reason I'd like to see Ben cede minutes is Parham's and Hamilton's improvement. But I feel like I see Ben getting torched far more often than I see him fitting in as an important defensive cog.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 05, 2025, 08:54:44 AMI believe in Ben but teams have figured him out. He cannot create his own shot and has a slow release. Defenses are rotating more quickly to him and pushing him further out on the perimeter when he gets the ball. His defense has improved so that's a positive. Right now I'm not sure how the offense gets him open like last season as there is no post like Oso to cause the defense to sag off Ben.
Our guards need to drive recklessly to the hoop to throw up weak, highly contested layups. That'll do it.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 05, 2025, 08:57:20 AMAt the risk of exposing myself as not knowing ball, I don't see the defensive prowess that is often cited here as Ben's best attribute. I don't want to just join the hate parade, and the biggest reason I'd like to see Ben cede minutes is Parham's and Hamilton's improvement. But I feel like I see Ben getting torched far more often than I see him fitting in as an important defensive cog.
He stifled Crowl and Reese. He led the charge in holding Sorber and Kalkbrenner under their season averages. Both did most of their damage when he was out of the game or on switches. Both did very little when Ben was guarding them one on one.
Ben is good defensively against "big bigs." Struggles more with "quick bigs."
On the offensive side, I thought we would see more of the PNR that we saw with Oso. But he's more picking and popping, and I think Billy is right here - his release isn't the quickest and teams aren't afraid of his drive. (Though he did have a nice one yesterday.)
I think Billy's point about Gold can be broadened to the entire team. MU has had eight starters over the last 2.67 seasons. MU runs the offense it runs. The other coaches aren't dummies. They can game plan.
Butler game. Matta changes his starting line up to force Ben to guard small ball. Only brings in Screen when Ben goes out.
Kalkbrenner on Stevie.
Taking away Kam's spin back to the left.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 09:10:22 AMI think Billy's point about Gold can be broadened to the entire team. MU has had eight starters over the last 2.67 seasons. MU runs the offense it runs. The other coaches aren't dummies. They can game plan.
Butler game. Matta changes his starting line up to force Ben to guard small ball. Only brings in Screen when Ben goes out.
Kalkbrenner on Stevie.
Taking away Kam's spin back to the left.
If this is true (and I believe it is) then what is our counter? Do we have one or are we just going to continue to try and do the same things? Our coaches aren't dummies either so what is the adjustment? I guess that's the $$$ question.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 05, 2025, 09:13:46 AMIf this is true (and I believe it is) then what is our counter? Do we have one or are we just going to continue to try and do the same things? Our coaches aren't dummies either so what is the adjustment? I guess that's the $$$ question.
I know you're not going to like the answer, but a big part of it is just shooters regressing to the mean and hitting a higher percentage. The offense is still generating a lot of the same good looks it always does.
That being said, I wouldn't mind a few more designed sets. I know that a large part of the offense is teaching the players to learn to read the defense and make the right call, but a few more designed plays targeted at getting good looks would go a long way IMO. We haven't out assisted a team since the Seton Hall game.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 05, 2025, 09:19:06 AMI know you're not going to like the answer, but a big part of it is just shooters regressing to the mean and hitting a higher percentage. The offense is still generating a lot of the same good looks it always does.
That being said, I wouldn't mind a few more designed sets. I know that a large part of the offense is teaching the players to learn to read the defense and make the right call, but a few more designed plays targeted at getting good looks would go a long way IMO. We haven't out assisted a team since the Seton Hall game.
You're right, I don't like that answer, but I hope it happens.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 08:47:58 AMStill here. Still believe. Ebbs and flows.
Agreed. Our offense doesn't cater to his strengths right now with limited ball movement and extra passes to get open three looks. We had one possession last night where we swung the ball with a few passes and Zaide got a wide-open look from the corner at a key moment that he unfortunately missed. Most of our perimeter shots seem to come off of a direct pass from a guard driving, though the guards aren't so quick as to create many help over reactions from the defense. Sean would have helped get defenses spinning a bit more. There are overall some flaws that other teams have learned to exploit.
As for Ben's rebounding, I can only guess/hope that whatever is bugging him with his right lower leg is impacting him on the boards. Several times a game it is clear something is giving him a lot of pain.
Hopefully we figure it out soon, but ultimately our ceiling this season will be determined by whether Kam and Jop can return to shooting at their historical levels, or close to it. People can rip on Ben all they want, but the key guys have to "be stars in their role." Kam and Jop need to score at an efficient level. They aren't lately.
Recurrence of shin splints?
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 05, 2025, 09:24:43 AMYou're right, I don't like that answer, but I hope it happens.
To build on Towers point too, all the adjustments mentioned are on the defensive end. We have certainly made our own defensive adjustments that have worked (and probably a few that didn't). Beast leading scorer Dixon was essentially an observer until the last 90 seconds. Ashworth probably has nightmare's about Stevie (look up his shooting numbers against us the last two years). Future 1st round pick Sorber largely neutralized. The game happens on both ends of the court.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 09:03:05 AMHe stifled Crowl and Reese. He led the charge in holding Sorber and Kalkbrenner under their season averages. Both did most of their damage when he was out of the game or on switches. Both did very little when Ben was guarding them one on one.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 05, 2025, 09:05:21 AMBen is good defensively against "big bigs." Struggles more with "quick bigs."
Yeah, I guess these two things are it. He's quicker than the slow and slower than the quick. So he's a matchups guy, which is fine. When we play teams that have a traditional big, let him do his thing. But against teams that play like St. Johns, I'm not convinced MU is well served with 26 minutes of Ben. And that's not
just because he had a bad game last night. I don't think there are a lot of worlds where Ben can have a good game against St. Johns. [bookmarked to look stupid after the conference finale]
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 05, 2025, 09:36:08 AMYeah, I guess these two things are it. He's quicker than the slow and slower than the quick. So he's a matchups guy, which is fine. When we play teams that have a traditional big, let him do his thing. But against teams that play like St. Johns, I'm not convinced MU is well served with 26 minutes of Ben. And that's not just because he had a bad game last night. I don't think there are a lot of worlds where Ben can have a good game against St. Johns. [bookmarked to look stupid after the conference finale]
He is a 6'11 Parham. And a better rebounder.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 05, 2025, 08:45:28 AMLots of Ben Gold haters coming out of the woodworks after being gone all season.
He did not play well last night. I believe in him and his ability to return to better form.
It's been 3 games, the defenses have figured how to play him. Can not get open on the perimeter, and has no center skills whatsoever. Do not know what you see?
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 09:47:45 AMHe is a 6'11 Parham. And a better rebounder.
I think Royce is our most willing rebounder, but the way MU defends it just makes it very difficult for our bigs to rebound.
Of the players that actually get real minutes, Royce leads in Offensive Rebounding Percentage, but he is dead last in Defensive Rebounding Percentage. Weird.
Zaide leads in Defensive Rebounding Percentage which is very obvious when he's playing.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 05, 2025, 09:57:59 AMOf the players that actually get real minutes, Royce leads in Offensive Rebounding Percentage, but he is dead last in Defensive Rebounding Percentage. Weird.
Nothing weird about it. I had this PEGGED before the season started. It was clear in his travel bball numbers - or% would be fine, dr% would not be - at least early on. Hopefully that can change over the next year or two, but hardly a given. Royce isn't a DR guy.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 05, 2025, 09:57:38 AMIt's been 3 games, the defenses have figured how to play him. Can not get open on the perimeter, and has no center skills whatsoever. Do not know what you see?
I see a center that shooting 36 percent from 3 (higher in conference) and has held some of the better C's we've faced this year below their season averages. Not bad for a "wing".
What I haven't seen is you this season up to this point. Curious that your third post of the season comes in February as soon as Ben struggles.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 05, 2025, 10:00:38 AMNothing weird about it. I had this PEGGED before the season started. It was clear in his travel bball numbers - or% would be fine, dr% would not be - at least early on. Hopefully that can change over the next year or two, but hardly a given. Royce isn't a DR guy.
When he's in there, to me at least, it seems like he's the most willing of any of our front court players to throw his body around and go fight for a ball. All of our guards do it, but Joplin and Ben don't really play that game. Joplin is pretty good at positioning himself for rebounds and Ben is 6'11", but they don't play like typical front court players on the glass.
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 09:47:45 AMHe is a 6'11 Parham. And a better rebounder.
I know the backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team, and there is an inclination to overvalue the bench guys who are reasonably productive in limited minutes. But I think Parham is already a more capable scorer. If Ben is a better defender, its due to matchups against traditional bigs and chasedown blocks due to his height. I'm not arguing Parham should be getting 20+ minutes against the Sorbers or Kalkenbrenners of the world. But I think they are sufficiently fungible that its worth investing more minutes in Parham's growth than what Ben gives in a lot of matchups.
Going back to DePaul, Ben has had three games of 7+ rebounds and 3 games of 2 or fewer rebounds, including 0(!) in each of the last two games. With that kind of inconsistency, its hard to put much stock in Gold's rebounding abilities.
I'm as Blue and Gold as it gets. Class of 80, lived next door to the late Bernard Toone at Tower. I watched the game last night against St.John's and I had to chime in. Ben Gold might be one of the worst big men I ever seen. Stop with the continued talk about BG being the next coming of Bill Walton. Let's also stop the talk about him going to the next level. He's NOT!!!!! Slow,non-agressive,no post up move,bad/mediocre jumpshot, etc,etc. He is what he is. Let's hope that Clark,Hamilton give us more at the 5 next year than we're getting now. I have high hopes that the team will get it together beat Creighton and finish the conference schedule strong. After that.......fingers crossed.
P.S. Note to Joplin....STOP DRIBBLING!!!!!!!
Quote from: Byrdman on February 05, 2025, 10:38:00 AMI'm as Blue and Gold as it gets. Class of 80, lived next door to the late Bernard Toone at Tower. I watched the game last night against St.John's and I had to chime in. Ben Gold might be one of the worst big men I ever seen. Stop with the continued talk about BG being the next coming of Bill Walton. Let's also stop the talk about him going to the next level. He's NOT!!!!! Slow,non-agressive,no post up move,bad/mediocre jumpshot, etc,etc. He is what he is. Let's hope that Clark,Hamilton give us more at the 5 next year than we're getting now. I have high hopes that the team will get it together beat Creighton and finish the conference schedule strong. After that.......fingers crossed.
P.S. Note to Joplin....STOP DRIBBLING!!!!!!!
Thanks
Quote from: Byrdman on February 05, 2025, 10:38:00 AMI'm as Blue and Gold as it gets. Class of 80, lived next door to the late Bernard Toone at Tower. I watched the game last night against St.John's and I had to chime in. Ben Gold might be one of the worst big men I ever seen. Stop with the continued talk about BG being the next coming of Bill Walton. Let's also stop the talk about him going to the next level. He's NOT!!!!! Slow,non-agressive,no post up move,bad/mediocre jumpshot, etc,etc. He is what he is. Let's hope that Clark,Hamilton give us more at the 5 next year than we're getting now. I have high hopes that the team will get it together beat Creighton and finish the conference schedule strong. After that.......fingers crossed.
P.S. Note to Joplin....STOP DRIBBLING!!!!!!!
Haha welcome to the board.
Sometimes it's good to hear new points of view
Quote from: DoctorV on February 05, 2025, 10:56:30 AMHaha welcome to the board.
Sometimes it's good to hear new points of view
And other times, not so good to hear.
MU has historically lacked physicality in the front court. This is nothing we are not used to watching but it becomes increasingly more frustrating as a top team to lack that one vital component.
Quote from: Markusquette on February 05, 2025, 12:01:40 PMMU has historically lacked physicality in the front court. This is nothing we are not used to watching but it becomes increasingly more frustrating as a top team to lack that one vital component.
It's Shaka's way. But don't judge for another 14 months.
Quote from: Markusquette on February 05, 2025, 12:01:40 PMMU has historically lacked physicality in the front court. This is nothing we are not used to watching but it becomes increasingly more frustrating as a top team to lack that one vital component.
It's an area that can be improved. I'm not sure I would label it as the "one vital component" that we're missing. There are quite a few of other areas I would prioritize improving ahead of physicality in the front court.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 05, 2025, 12:08:16 PMIt's Shaka's way. But don't judge for another 14 months.
Theo John was arguably as physical a front court player as you can find in CBB and it didn't result in any Tournament Wins.
Shaka clearly has the NBA philosophy of bigs that can stretch the floor or athletic centers like Kur and Oso, but he's at least expanded by adding Hamilton and Clark. It'll take some time to see the benefits of that, but I think they will prove to be valuable. For now, just accept what we have. We can beat good teams, it'll just be our way. Live with it.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 05, 2025, 09:57:59 AMI think Royce is our most willing rebounder, but the way MU defends it just makes it very difficult for our bigs to rebound.
Of the players that actually get real minutes, Royce leads in Offensive Rebounding Percentage, but he is dead last in Defensive Rebounding Percentage. Weird.
Zaide leads in Defensive Rebounding Percentage which is very obvious when he's playing.
You didn't read JB's post about rebounding.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 05, 2025, 12:14:54 PMTheo John was arguably as physical a front court player as you can find in CBB and it didn't result in any Tournament Wins.
Shaka clearly has the NBA philosophy of bigs that can stretch the floor or athletic centers like Kur and Oso, but he's at least expanded by adding Hamilton and Clark. It'll take some time to see the benefits of that, but I think they will prove to be valuable. For now, just accept what we have. We can beat good teams, it'll just be our way. Live with it.
Poor rebounder for his size and stature. I felt like Theo was going to be so much more than he was for MU (not so much Duke) and it never really worked out.
Switching 1-5 doesn't work for every big. And, having your tallest player contesting jumpers can negatively affect rebounding.
Ben having zero rebounds in 2 straight game hurts. It really hurts when the rebound total was 50 to 28.
Got yo find a way to be competitive on the boards as a whole team.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 05, 2025, 09:57:59 AMI think Royce is our most willing rebounder, but the way MU defends it just makes it very difficult for our bigs to rebound.
Of the players that actually get real minutes, Royce leads in Offensive Rebounding Percentage, but he is dead last in Defensive Rebounding Percentage. Weird.
Zaide leads in Defensive Rebounding Percentage which is very obvious when he's playing.
Raw %????
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 05, 2025, 10:03:37 AMWhen he's in there, to me at least, it seems like he's the most willing of any of our front court players to throw his body around and go fight for a ball. All of our guards do it, but Joplin and Ben don't really play that game. Joplin is pretty good at positioning himself for rebounds and Ben is 6'11", but they don't play like typical front court players on the glass.
They aren't or are used as typical front court players
I was just looking at whatever Torvik provides Newsdreams.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 05, 2025, 02:27:59 PMI was just looking at whatever Torvik provides Newsdreams.
Was saying they're not used as typical front court players. Shaka doesn't use those roles, all players switch on D, I still have nightmares of Sean guarding 6'-11" + players, fronting them by the basket.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 05, 2025, 04:56:15 PMWas saying they're not used as typical front court players. Shaka doesn't use those roles, all players switch on D, I still have nightmares of Sean guarding 6'-11" + players, fronting them by the basket.
I was responding to your question of Raw %???
Wasn't quite sure what you meant by that.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 05, 2025, 05:02:20 PMI was responding to your question of Raw %???
Wasn't quite sure what you meant by that.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 05, 2025, 05:02:20 PMI was responding to your question of Raw %???
Wasn't quite sure what you meant by that.
Ok