MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 07:58:23 PM

Title: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 07:58:23 PM
1.  Kam, ewwwwwww.  Just dumb. 
2.  Stevie, Ben, Joplin, ewwwwww.
3.  If you have watched SJU at MSG this season, you know that they are next level physical and are rewarded for it by the officials.  They feed the crowd and then the crowd feeds them.
4.  How about that bench? Zaide, Tre, Royce showed up.
5. If the bench tonight is the new normal, MU's ceiling just got higher. 
6. Chase can run the point next season.
7.  Rebounding.  More ewww.  See: SJU
at MSG.
8. Old school Big East war.
9. MU never folded.  'Fans' questioning MU's toughness are morons.
10. Taken in isolation, helluva game, helluva battle.  11 v 12, toe to toe.
11. Taken back to back with UConn, painful. Had looks, had chances, alas.

Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 08:00:25 PM
Wish the boys would've been given a chance. 4 on 3 starters, 1 fouled out. And all of them well before we tried to foul to extend the game.

Good effort by the bench and guys who were allowed to play. Congrats to the Big East for getting SJU to 11-1.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:02:21 PM
We were bullied tonight.  You can't expect to win if you can't rebound the basketball.  That said St.J will not get that whistle in the tournament. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 04, 2025, 08:02:40 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 07:58:23 PM1.  Kam, ewwwwwww.  Just dumb. 
2.  Stevie, Ben, Joplin, ewwwwww.
3.  If you have watched SJU at MSG this season, you know that they are next level physical and are rewarded for it by the officials.  They feed the crowd and then the crowd feeds them.
4.  How about that bench? Zaide, Tre, Royce showed up.
5. If the bench tonight is the new normal, MU's ceiling just got higher. 
6. Chase can run the point next season.
7.  Rebounding.  More ewww.  See: SJU
at MSG.
8. Old school Big East war.
9. MU never folded.  'Fans' questioning MU's toughness are morons.
10. Taken in isolation, helluva game, helluva battle.  11 v 12, toe to toe.
11. Taken back to back with UConn, painful. Had looks, had chances, alas.



Easy money and when the under 10.5 BE wins hit, oh baby!
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MUEng92 on February 04, 2025, 08:02:49 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed the first half of this season.  Yeah, that's all I can bring myself to say one February 4, 2025
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 04, 2025, 08:03:06 PM
Number 5 is definitely a positive, I didn't think the effort was there, but the bench was great
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:03:24 PM
Until Marquette gets a front court player that can rebound and protect the rim this result win occur more against good teams
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: CountryRoads on February 04, 2025, 08:03:26 PM
St John's and their crowd really have it down where they play extremely physical and when a whistle is finally called on them they act shocked and like they were completely screwed.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Small Orange Soda on February 04, 2025, 08:03:44 PM
All three seniors played poorly.

If the game plan is to shoot threes, then recruit guys who can make threes.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 04, 2025, 08:04:36 PM
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:03:24 PMUntil Marquette gets a front court player that can rebound and protect the rim this result win occur more against good teams

If you look at Marquette's wins the last 4 years, they haven't beaten a good team and that's why they've had such middling results.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Johnny B on February 04, 2025, 08:05:30 PM
one convincing performance since Wisconsin and it was against a horrible squad. hope they can win Saturday cause 3 straight losses is brutal. Worst part about this is accepting we may have to revise expectations. 2 seed is pie in the sky at this point. 4 ir 5 is more realistic. Seems we kind over performed in non con. Just sucks
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Eye on February 04, 2025, 08:05:41 PM
Excellent headline. Felt like a big-league wrestling match.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MUEng92 on February 04, 2025, 08:06:48 PM
Hey, MU almost doubled their assist total from the UCONN game. So there's that.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:07:11 PM
They had Oso to protect the rim. He wasn't a great rebounder but he was adequate and played good defense. They don't have that this year. Uncle Rico bad response
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Big Papi on February 04, 2025, 08:07:31 PM
I don't know what a foul is any more. We had some very dumb fouls but that disparity is not what it should be.

Kam decision making had been awful.

Jop has been awful overall.

Gold other than defending has not provided any offense lately.

Thankfully Zaide and Parham stepped up offensively.

Rebounding was atrocious.

I don't like our offense right now. Very disjointed which is a huge red flag considering we are in February.

Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 04, 2025, 08:07:35 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 08:00:25 PMWish the boys would've been given a chance. 4 on 3 starters, 1 fouled out. And all of them well before we tried to foul to extend the game.

Good effort by the bench and guys who were allowed to play. Congrats to the Big East for getting SJU to 11-1.

Stevie absolutely had two very ????? Calls back to back
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:07:47 PM
23-4 remains intact!
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: warriors141 on February 04, 2025, 08:08:36 PM
After this game the first thing you think about is the refs? The seniors and Gold beyond awful. When is the last time you have been really thrilled with a Marquette performance?
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Big Papi on February 04, 2025, 08:08:52 PM
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:03:24 PMUntil Marquette gets a front court player that can rebound and protect the rim this result win occur more against good teams

Agreed.  Hoping Clark is the answer.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: warriors141 on February 04, 2025, 08:08:36 PMAfter this game the first thing you think about is the refs? The seniors and Gold beyond awful. When is the last time you have been really thrilled with a Marquette performance?
To whom are you speaking?
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Judge Smails on February 04, 2025, 08:10:59 PM
The toughest part of the schedule is almost over. Can't wait for DePaul on Feb 11
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 04, 2025, 08:11:09 PM
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:07:11 PMThey had Oso to protect the rim. He wasn't a great rebounder but he was adequate and played good defense. They don't have that this year. Uncle Rico bad response

I mean, Oso had a 4.7 blk% last year.  Joplin's is 4.2%, Chase is 3.0% and Gold is 3.9% this year.

The defense is statistically better this year.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Big Papi on February 04, 2025, 08:11:15 PM
Quote from: MUEng92 on February 04, 2025, 08:06:48 PMHey, MU almost doubled their assist total from the UCONN game. So there's that.

Excellent point.

5 assists vs Uconn
9 assists vs STJ

This offense is broken. Adjustments need to be made.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:11:38 PM
The frustration I have is the lack of poise and sometimes leadership.  Because we're way too experienced to make some of these mistakes. The effort is there but we go through these mind-boggling stretches on both ends of the floor.  We need to turn things around, pronto.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: AlumKCof93 on February 04, 2025, 08:13:27 PM
Agreed the refs were horrble tonight, and that was the case throughout. As the game went on, Marquette did foul under their basket too often, but the refs controlled the game.  That said, the following was also true.
- best two players on the court were Richmond and Luis. By a wide margin
- our seniors are too experienced to play that poorly.  Was true for each of them.
- Joplin can't play that poorly.  His floor should not be that low.
- Shaka needs to get a T. Had multiple opportunities tonight but played good cop.
- Ben needs to play with confidence. He plays hot potato on offense.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 08:13:44 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:11:38 PMThe frustration I have is the lack of poise and sometimes leadership.  Because we're way too experienced to make some of these mistakes. The effort is there but we go through these mind-boggling stretches on both ends of the floor.  We need to turn things around, pronto.

I thought Kam might will us to a win for a couple minutes there.  But he's only one man.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: muwarrior69 on February 04, 2025, 08:16:11 PM
Quote from: Judge Smails on February 04, 2025, 08:10:59 PMThe toughest part of the schedule is almost over. Can't wait for DePaul on Feb 11

So their one player can shoot lights out from 3 like last time.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Warriors, Come Out and Playeeyay on February 04, 2025, 08:17:31 PM
Questions...

1) why are we picking them up, 5 up top, from 35 feet away...when St. John's isn't known for shooting
2) do we run any offensive sets?  The last month is Kam running around and other feet planted at the perimeter
3) does anyone go for offensive rebounds?
4) why is our offense starting 40 feet from the hoop?  I miss Buzz's paint touch philosophy at times
5) what is our strategy with the center position?
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:17:47 PM
You really think the defense and rebounding is better at the 5 spot this year.I can't help you if that is what you think. Gold has been abused against UCONN and St. John's. They are the two best teams in the league. Not playing Seton Hall and DePaul the last two games. Should have taken a Senior transfer at the 5 while the young big guys develop
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Zog from Margo on February 04, 2025, 08:19:05 PM
Kam is a good passer and a great player but not an experienced PG. Teams are attacking his high dribble.

Bench and Ross played well.

Rebounding. Jebus!
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:19:43 PM
Quote from: MUEng92 on February 04, 2025, 08:02:49 PMI thoroughly enjoyed the first half of this season.  Yeah, that's all I can bring myself to say one February 4, 2025

Dumb.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on February 04, 2025, 08:03:06 PMNumber 5 is definitely a positive, I didn't think the effort was there, but the bench was great

You didn't think the effort was there?  What the f*ck were you watching?

Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: muwarrior69 on February 04, 2025, 08:21:25 PM
Quote from: Zog from Margo on February 04, 2025, 08:19:05 PMKam is a good passer and a great player but not an experienced PG. Teams are attacking his high dribble.

Bench and Ross played well.

Rebounding. Jebus!

Well the stat guys say we are not that bad.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Jockey on February 04, 2025, 08:22:50 PM
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on February 04, 2025, 08:03:44 PMAll three seniors played poorly.

If the game plan is to shoot threes, then recruit guys who can make threes.

So did the junior.

Until Kam goes back to being a point guard again, we will struggle.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wisblue on February 04, 2025, 08:24:17 PM
Quote from: Judge Smails on February 04, 2025, 08:10:59 PMThe toughest part of the schedule is almost over. Can't wait for DePaul on Feb 11

It's going to be tough to get excited about that game.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Small Orange Soda on February 04, 2025, 08:26:11 PM
Quote from: Jockey on February 04, 2025, 08:22:50 PMSo did the junior.

Until Kam goes back to being a point guard again, we will struggle.

Agreed on Ben. Chase tried though.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:27:02 PM
The more disappointing result was the loss to UConn Saturday. 



Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on February 04, 2025, 08:27:57 PM
We need a true post presence. I think Royce is clearly our best player in that area. Would like to see him get more looks down there.

If it has to come at the expense of Joplin until he wakes up, so be it.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 04, 2025, 08:28:36 PM
The offense is wandering in the desert. Weaving out on top for 20+ seconds, usually followed by an OOC drive.

Rebounding - what's to say? It's always going to be the Achilles' heel of a Shaka team. Until he changes his philosophy, get used to it. This issue will likely be amplified in the Dance.

BOOB plays have been a problem for years. We have one play - toss it to Ben or another big in the left forecourt, usually results in setting it out  up top again - no advantage. Go back and look at the SJU BOOB plays and appredciate the difference.

Defense has been good all year, tonight not so much. The back door was often open.

Whistles were pathetic, as we expected. Last time I looked before taking a cooling-off stroll outside it was 25 FTA's to 9.

All depressing, because in reality this team hasn't played well for 2 - 3 weeks. We'll see what they and Shaka have based on how they go from here. It would be nice to see our seniors go out on a bit of a roll.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Jockey on February 04, 2025, 08:29:18 PM
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on February 04, 2025, 08:26:11 PMAgreed on Ben. Chase tried though.

I agree SOS. Too bad he was the only starter to do so.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:30:11 PM
Against an athetic and physical team like St.J you have to be patient.  In the 1st have we saw the most effective way to attack fron ZL and RP.  Excellent vertical drives, solid shot fake, easy buckets off of two feet.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: Warriors, Come Out and Playeeyay on February 04, 2025, 08:17:31 PMQuestions...

1) why are we picking them up, 5 up top, from 35 feet away...when St. John's isn't known for shooting
2) do we run any offensive sets?  The last month is Kam running around and other feet planted at the perimeter
3) does anyone go for offensive rebounds?
4) why is our offense starting 40 feet from the hoop?  I miss Buzz's paint touch philosophy at times
5) what is our strategy with the center position?
1. To disrupt and generate turnovers.
2. 5 out motion.  Screens, rolls, ghost screens, same offense as last season, though with pick and pops vs pick and rolls with Oso
3.  Stevie.  Ben. Royce.
4. See 2 and 1.  The defense is picking MU up that far out, just as MU picks up 40 feet out on offense.
5. Stretch 5.  5 out motion. Pick, roll/pop, dribble hand offs.  There will nearly never be a post up.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 04, 2025, 08:31:05 PM
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:27:02 PMThe more disappointing result was the loss to UConn Saturday. 





When you understand this team is overrated, hasn't beaten anyone good, hasn't beaten anyone good enough, doesn't have any Big East players, needs transfers, needs shooters, needs a point guard, needs aircraft carriers, needs to practice a litany of things, needs more mid-range jump shots, needs more NIL money and should probably refuse a post-season bid, you'd see things differently
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:31:11 PM
Quote from: wisblue on February 04, 2025, 08:24:17 PMIt's going to be tough to get excited about that game.
Why?  It is a MU game.  Ergo, I am rooting for MU.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:17:47 PMYou really think the defense and rebounding is better at the 5 spot this year.I can't help you if that is what you think. Gold has been abused against UCONN and St. John's. They are the two best teams in the league. Not playing Seton Hall and DePaul the last two games. Should have taken a Senior transfer at the 5 while the young big guys develop
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 04, 2025, 08:21:25 PMWell the stat guys say we are not that bad.
So does the record.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:33:00 PM
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 04, 2025, 08:28:36 PMThe offense is wandering in the desert. Weaving out on top for 20+ seconds, usually followed by an OOC drive.

Rebounding - what's to say? It's always going to be the Achilles' heel of a Shaka team. Until he changes his philosophy, get used to it. This issue will likely be amplified in the Dance.

BOOB plays have been a problem for years. We have one play - toss it to Ben or another big in the left forecourt, usually results in setting it out  up top again - no advantage. Go back and look at the SJU BOOB plays and appredciate the difference.

Defense has been good all year, tonight not so much. The back door was often open.

Whistles were pathetic, as we expected. Last time I looked before taking a cooling-off stroll outside it was 25 FTA's to 9.

All depressing, because in reality this team hasn't played well for 2 - 3 weeks. We'll see what they and Shaka have based on how they go from here. It would be nice to see our seniors go out on a bit of a roll.

These are all fair points.  We have not played well or intelligently.  We have not gotten better in our offensive sets to this point.  Maybe the shooting of ZL and RP today will pay some dividends down the road. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:34:00 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 04, 2025, 08:31:05 PMWhen you understand this team is overrated, hasn't beaten anyone good, hasn't beaten anyone good enough, doesn't have any Big East players, needs transfers, needs shooters, needs a point guard, needs aircraft carriers, needs to practice a litany of things, needs more mid-range jump shots, needs more NIL money and should probably refuse a post-season bid, you'd see things differently

Thank you for helping me see the light.  We suck, the season is over, and all hope is gone. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wisblue on February 04, 2025, 08:34:58 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:31:11 PMWhy?  It is a MU game.  Ergo, I am rooting for MU.

Did I say I wasn't rooting for MU?

But, after having to reset hopes for the season, that becomes a game that will be needed just to avoid disaster.

We do have a definitive answer to the question I raised in December that you turned into a thread of its own.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:36:25 PM
My expectations were 24-25 regular season wins, second weekend.  I have seen nothing that changes them.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on February 04, 2025, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: wisblue on February 04, 2025, 08:24:17 PMIt's going to be tough to get excited about that game.
Why?  We have an excellent chance to maybe win that game.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Nukem2 on February 04, 2025, 08:37:26 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:30:22 PM1. To disrupt and generate turnovers.
2. 5 out motion.  Screens, rolls, ghost screens, same offense as last season, though with pick and pops vs pick and rolls with Oso
3.  Stevie.  Ben. Royce.
4. See 2 and 1.  The defense is picking MU up that far out, just as MU picks up 40 feet out on offense.
5. Stretch 5.  5 out motion. Pick, roll/pop, dribble hand offs.  There will nearly never be a post up.
Re #3: Ben has zero rebounds these past 2 games, much less an offensive rebound.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 04, 2025, 08:38:05 PM
5 offensive rebounds, three were team rebounds (knocked out of bounds) compared to 21 for them. Zuby had 6 himself. 16-5 in second chance points. There's your ballgame
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: CountryRoads on February 04, 2025, 08:38:30 PM
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 04, 2025, 08:27:57 PMWe need a true post presence. I think Royce is clearly our best player in that area. Would like to see him get more looks down there.

If it has to come at the expense of Joplin until he wakes up, so be it.

Royce has a high ceiling. Wouldn't mind seeing his minutes increase. We don't get any rebounds anyway so no harm in going smaller and I think he'd be just fine on D now.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:41:48 PM
Jop and Benny had 2 total rebounds.  Chase had 8, Zaide 6. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: DoctorV on February 04, 2025, 08:42:29 PM
When you lose the rebounding battle by 22 you can't really blame anyone but yourself.

StJ shot 18% from 3 and 54% from the line and Marquette still found a way to lose.

Unfortunately, this squad finds a new way to lose one night after the next as of late
It's kind of what happens when you are built on senior leadership and said leadership no shows, is in a funk, or both.

Shaka has his work cut out for him
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: StillWarriors on February 04, 2025, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: Jockey on February 04, 2025, 08:29:18 PMI agree SOS. Too bad he was the only starter to do so.

It was evident Chase had the body for that physicality. Everyone else looked a bit overmatched physically. They battled though. Everything is hard when key guys seem to have lost offensive confidence and consistency. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on February 04, 2025, 08:44:29 PM
Watched game late.  Watched first half and about first 5 minutes of 2nd...that was enough to see we weren't going to win. Surprised the final score was that close so kudos to the team for that I guess. 

Not really surprised at the bitching about the refs...the calls in the first were pretty fair and the crowd was really on them so would have expected that we got a worse whistle in the 2nd.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: DoctorV on February 04, 2025, 08:42:29 PMWhen you lose the rebounding battle by 22 you can't really blame anyone but yourself.

StJ shot 18% from 3 and 54% from the line and Marquette still found a way to lose.

Unfortunately, this squad finds a new way to lose one night after the next as of late
It's kind of what happens when you are built on senior leadership and said leadership no shows, is in a funk, or both.

Shaka has his work cut out for him

Well said Dr.V. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: nyg on February 04, 2025, 08:47:08 PM
MU is always in foul trouble, almost every single game, it's Shaka's defensive approach and always has been.  It is also SJU and Pitino's scheme, therefore the over aggressiveness was there to watch.  MU made too many more obvious, less disciplined ones, especially Kam on two occasions.  Shaka the "Maestro" made a blunder keeping Kam in game with two fouls, three minutes left in half.  It was a one point game and no need to have him on the court.

Rebounding stats were unreal.  SJU 50. MU 28.  SJU had 21 offensive, with MU having 5, three of which were classified as "team", meaning Owens and Lowery were only ones credited. 

Ben (NBA bound) Gold has two points in last three games. Zero rebounds in last two and missed a crucial one and one with MU down three and two minutes to go.  He also got beat many times trying to catch Zuby on fast breaks. He is also 1 for 9 on his last three attempts.  Many can criticize Joplin's play, but Gold is right along in this stretch.

Didn't see the "Tre showed up" thing.  He came in four minutes in game as usual for Mitchell.  Immediately fouled, then a turnover, then banked in a prayer top of key three, then another foul.  Sat after that foul and hardly played rest of game unless to cover for Kam playing defense only after Kam's #4.  Hope Lowery can take Norman's six minutes a game going forward. Props to him and Parham, they were real good tonight and hope it continues.

If SJU could shoot the three at an even reasonable rate, they could be or might still be, a top 10 team.  Just loaded with athletic, quick and defensive players, along with a polished center in the middle. 

Hoping for better effort next game to stop the streak and start a new one, but Shaka going to have to adjust something, somehow. 



Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: We R Final Four on February 04, 2025, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 07:58:23 PM1.  Kam, ewwwwwww.  Just dumb. 
2.  Stevie, Ben, Joplin, ewwwwww.
3.  If you have watched SJU at MSG this season, you know that they are next level physical and are rewarded for it by the officials.  They feed the crowd and then the crowd feeds them.
4.  How about that bench? Zaide, Tre, Royce showed up.
5. If the bench tonight is the new normal, MU's ceiling just got higher. 
6. Chase can run the point next season.
7.  Rebounding.  More ewww.  See: SJU
at MSG.
8. Old school Big East war.
9. MU never folded.  'Fans' questioning MU's toughness are morons.
10. Taken in isolation, helluva game, helluva battle.  11 v 12, toe to toe.
11. Taken back to back with UConn, painful. Had looks, had chances, alas.


4. Tre is just a guy. Stop making him out to be more than he is.
Solid defender. Terrible 3 point shooter. Terrible FT shooter.

Zaide had a career night....great rebounding tonight.
Royce is on his way to being a fantastic BE player.......
Tre.......ok whatever
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:47:46 PM
Quote from: StillWarriors on February 04, 2025, 08:43:45 PMIt was evident Chase had the body for that physicality. Everyone else looked a bit overmatched physically. They battled though. Everything is hard when key guys seem to have lost offensive confidence and consistency. 

It's also a mentality.  There is playing with confidence and force vs being timid and afraid to make mistakes.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:52:21 PM
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 04, 2025, 08:47:34 PM4. Tre is just a guy. Stop making him out to be more than he is.
Solid defender. Terrible 3 point shooter. Terrible FT shooter.

Zaide had a career night....great rebounding tonight.
Royce is on his way to being a fantastic BE player.......
Tre.......ok whatever
We disagree.  OK, whatever.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:52:41 PM
Stevie is the heart and soul of our team.  When he doesn't create energy and offense from his defense we generally struggle.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 04, 2025, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:20:45 PMYou didn't think the effort was there?  What the f*ck were you watching?



Right!? Effort is the last thing that is an issue with this team. Rebounding. Poor Shooting lately. Kam floundering from a shoe in AA to a guy that may not make BE 1st team. Jop hasn't shot well. Free throw shooting has been terrible lately. The team really hasn't looked good for weeks at this point. We were very lucky to be 9-1 narrowing escaping losses @X, @Depaul and vs. Gtown.

Need Kam and Jop to be much better. Not expecting a win @Creighton. Hopefully can get right after that and change the momentum. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 08:54:53 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:47:46 PMIt's also a mentality.  There is playing with confidence and force vs being timid and afraid to make mistakes.

This is my biggest problem. Jop, Kam, Stevie all had chances to take good shots and just looked for a passing outlet. Which oftentimes led to bad possessions. Don't know if foul trouble played a part in it, but it was an issue.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wisblue on February 04, 2025, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:36:25 PMMy expectations were 24-25 regular season wins, second weekend.  I have seen nothing that changes them.

Again, I said resetting HOPES, not expectations.

The team that beat Maryland, Wisconsin, and Purdue while several conference teams struggled in the OOC raised hopes. But several of the Conference teams have improved over the course of the season while MU has not. Based on the conference games it's hard to make an argument that MU is better than Xavier.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on February 04, 2025, 08:57:36 PM
I think it is pretty clear that Kam is pressing and really feeling pressure.

The good news is that the rest of the guys have done their part for a good portion of the last month or so. He's also capable of finding confidence again...but it seems pretty clear he's got some mental stuff going on shouldering the load (or feeling like he has to).
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MUfan12 on February 04, 2025, 08:59:32 PM
The pattern offensively is so predictable. High ball screen, which either gets refused or turns into a slip, the screener hardly ever making contact. Drive, dead end, kick out, miss a three or a highly contested shot at the hoop.

Shaka needs to get more hands on and call out some set actions, like the zone set against Butler that got a dunker spot layup. We're the easiest team in the country to guard right now. Can't shoot for crap, 3 guys are stationary for most of the possession, and don't get many offensive boards. They have to get some motion back into this. It's killing them right now.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on February 04, 2025, 09:00:04 PM
Our guys played their hearts out in an extremely hostile environment. They fell short but they are still our guys and I am proud of them
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 09:01:25 PM
Quote from: nyg on February 04, 2025, 08:47:08 PMMU is always in foul trouble, almost every single game, it's Shaka's defensive approach and always has been.  It is also SJU and Pitino's scheme, therefore the over aggressiveness was there to watch.  MU made too many more obvious, less disciplined ones, especially Kam on two occasions.  Shaka the "Maestro" made a blunder keeping Kam in game with two fouls, three minutes left in half.  It was a one point game and no need to have him on the court.

Rebounding stats were unreal.  SJU 50. MU 28.  SJU had 21 offensive, with MU having 5, three of which were classified as "team", meaning Owens and Lowery were only ones credited. 

Ben (NBA bound) Gold has two points in last three games. Zero rebounds in last two and missed a crucial one and one with MU down three and two minutes to go.  He also got beat many times trying to catch Zuby on fast breaks. He is also 1 for 9 on his last three attempts.  Many can criticize Joplin's play, but Gold is right along in this stretch.

Didn't see the "Tre showed up" thing.  He came in four minutes in game as usual for Mitchell.  Immediately fouled, then a turnover, then banked in a prayer top of key three, then another foul.  Sat after that foul and hardly played rest of game unless to cover for Kam playing defense only after Kam's #4.  Hope Lowery can take Norman's six minutes a game going forward. Props to him and Parham, they were real good tonight and hope it continues.

If SJU could shoot the three at an even reasonable rate, they could be or might still be, a top 10 team.  Just loaded with athletic, quick and defensive players, along with a polished center in the middle. 

Hoping for better effort next game to stop the streak and start a new one, but Shaka going to have to adjust something, somehow. 




Hey, welcome back! 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Nukem2 on February 04, 2025, 09:02:11 PM
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 04, 2025, 08:59:32 PMThe pattern offensively is so predictable. High ball screen, which either gets refused or turns into a slip, the screener hardly ever making contact. Drive, dead end, kick out, miss a three or a highly contested shot at the hoop.

Shaka needs to get more hands on and call out some set actions, like the zone set against Butler that got a dunker spot layup. We're the easiest team in the country to guard right now. Can't shoot for crap, 3 guys are stationary for most of the possession, and don't get many offensive boards. They have to get some motion back into this. It's killing them right now.
Yep, the lack of motion and passing compared to the last couple seasons is quite striking.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on February 04, 2025, 09:06:07 PM
Quote from: wisblue on February 04, 2025, 08:56:41 PMAgain, I said resetting HOPES, not expectations.

The team that beat Maryland, Wisconsin, and Purdue while several conference teams struggled in the OOC raised hopes. But several of the Conference teams have improved over the course of the season while MU has not. Based on the conference games it's hard to make an argument that MU is better than Xavier.
The team that went 3-0 vs the Big10 has been MIA for weeks.  We are a gigantic mess on offense right now and I don't think it's going to be an easy fix, if it even can be fixed.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 04, 2025, 09:08:07 PM
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:20:45 PMYou didn't think the effort was there?  What the f*ck were you watching?



Unnecessary. And, offensive rebounding, fouling, IQ lapses. I equate that to effort, perhaps that is my mistake.

Chase, Zaide, Royce, massive effort.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: nyg on February 04, 2025, 09:13:09 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 09:01:25 PMHey, welcome back! 

Just a quick one to keep you in check with Gold and don't start with Norman now.....

Remember, you can't critique any MU players on this board or you'll get crucified.

Team's shooting struggles started real bad beginning second half of Depaul game.  Went 1 for 14 from three for 19:15 minutes, then MU got bailed out by threes from Kam with 45 seconds left and then Ross with six seconds left. Since then, brutal.  But that's Shaka's offensive approach with the three ball. Coincide that with stupid fouls, rebounding deficencies and very lazy passing, recipe for some disasters. Hopefully can make some adjustments to start a new streak.

Later......

Hope Shaka gets the players ready
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 09:17:26 PM
Quote from: nyg on February 04, 2025, 09:13:09 PMJust a quick one to keep you in check with Gold and don't start with Norman now.....

Remember, you can't critique any MU players on this board or you'll get crucified.

Team's shooting struggles started real bad beginning second half of Depaul game.  Went 1 for 14 from three for 19:15 minutes, then MU got bailed out by threes from Kam with 45 seconds left and then Ross with six seconds left. Since then, brutal.  But that's Shaka's offensive approach with the three ball. Coincide that with stupid fouls, rebounding deficencies and very lazy passing, recipe for some disasters. Hopefully can make some adjustments to start a new streak.

Later......

Hope Shaka gets the players
I am glad you came back.  And you are mistaken.  Criticizing MU players is the current zeitgeist, the current hive mind. So is criticizing the refs.   It is a scoop post loss tradition.  This year it is a post win tradition, too.  And, man, you should read the game threads.

So, to say that you can't criticize MU players is kind of a weak take. 

Stick around.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 09:18:21 PM
Quote from: nyg on February 04, 2025, 09:13:09 PMRemember, you can't critique any MU players on this board or you'll get crucified.

Does that mean you're resurrected?  ;D
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 04, 2025, 09:18:43 PM
Quote from: DoctorV on February 04, 2025, 08:42:29 PMShaka has his work cut out for him

Truer words were never spoken.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 09:35:23 PM
Quote from: wisblue on February 04, 2025, 08:56:41 PMAgain, I said resetting HOPES, not expectations.

The team that beat Maryland, Wisconsin, and Purdue while several conference teams struggled in the OOC raised hopes. But several of the Conference teams have improved over the course of the season while MU has not. Based on the conference games it's hard to make an argument that MU is better than Xavier.

But harder to make the argument that Xavier will be seeded ahead of MU in the NCAA tournament.  If in fact they make the tournament. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 04, 2025, 09:38:24 PM
So many funny takes here, thanks!!
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 04, 2025, 09:50:10 PM
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:17:47 PMYou really think the defense and rebounding is better at the 5 spot this year.I can't help you if that is what you think. Gold has been abused against UCONN and St. John's. They are the two best teams in the league. Not playing Seton Hall and DePaul the last two games. Should have taken a Senior transfer at the 5 while the young big guys develop
MU had 8 blocks tonight. MU just shot terrible 2nd half, got into foul trouble, and barely won the TO battle.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Shooter McGavin on February 04, 2025, 10:43:44 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:52:21 PMWe disagree.  OK, whatever.

Tower you are seeing something that no one else is seeing in Tre. Hoe you are right.

Overall, my impressions are

1) David, the enigma, Joplin sabotaged the first half and some of the second half.  Love the effort on D.  Love that he loves MU.  But wow is he maddening.  He will be a major reason for losing first round or going a long way in the tournament.  Would much rather have a player with consistently higher basketball IQ but David is here for better or worse.  Tonight definitely worse.

2) Many calls were terrible.  Especially the flagrant foul. 

3) Kam needs to pay like an all-American.  If he does not the teams ceiling is much lower.

4) St Johns is not a better team than MU.  Hopefully they can get over this slump and play for a Big East Title in March.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 05:55:16 AM
Just a bad night to watch basketball. IU was never in the game in Madison.  Continuing to misuse their aircraft carrier and miss from mid range. MSU laid their second straight egg on the west coast, shooting poorly and letting UCLA's very tall center intimidate them around the rim.  The Bruin's all but eliminated the Sparty transition.   Ah, well.  Purdue and Wisconsin continue to ascend the Big 10 standings.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 06:45:48 AM
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 04, 2025, 08:38:30 PMRoyce has a high ceiling. Wouldn't mind seeing his minutes increase. We don't get any rebounds anyway so no harm in going smaller and I think he'd be just fine on D now.
Royce does have a high ceiling.  His rebounding last night was not an upgrade.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: CTWarrior on February 05, 2025, 06:52:14 AM
Quote from: AlumKCof93 on February 04, 2025, 08:13:27 PMAs the game went on, Marquette did foul under their basket too often...
This is a common theme with this team.  We get beat of the dribble for layups regularly the last 5-10 minutes of games.  Tough for us to keep penetrators in front of us as our legs tire.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 05, 2025, 07:27:03 AM
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on February 04, 2025, 08:03:44 PMAll three seniors played poorly.

If the game plan is to shoot threes, then recruit guys who can make threes.

Kam only partially redeemed himself keeping MU in the game the last 5 minutes, and Stevie was highly uncharacteristically non impactful, but by far the biggest disappointment was the incredible variety of ways Jop found to make mental errors. From repeatedly falling asleep on cutters, to refusing an open 6 foot shot in the lane, to telegraphing passes straight into defenders' hands, to his panicked 3-point heave with a full 4 seconds left on the shot clock...he is too experienced and frankly too talented to play that way. EDIT: Forgot about the standing near mid-court completely unguarded and having a pass go straight through his hands and out of bounds.

Given the way the bench has played (and wow, Parham has really improved), even a collectively mediocre performance from the seniors would have resulted in a comfortable win.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 05, 2025, 07:43:14 AM
The tempo we like to play at tends to favor St.John's.  When we got beat it was mostly in the open floor coast to coast.  There were several sequences when we missed a quick 3 and they got a lay-up on the other end.  This also happened when we missed a contested lay-up.  Our rebounding issues weren't just Benny and Jop.  St.J got a ton of long rebounds and all the loose balls. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Aircraftcarrier on February 05, 2025, 08:08:55 AM
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 04, 2025, 09:50:10 PMMU had 8 blocks tonight. MU just shot terrible 2nd half, got into foul trouble, and barely won the TO battle.
you really don't know basketball. Who cares how many blocks MU had. St.John's was 3-16 from three and 17-31 from the line and won the game.Do you have any idea why they won? I will help you. MU got abused on the glass.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: The Sultan on February 05, 2025, 08:19:31 AM
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on February 05, 2025, 07:27:03 AMKam only partially redeemed himself keeping MU in the game the last 5 minutes, and Stevie was highly uncharacteristically non impactful, but by far the biggest disappointment was the incredible variety of ways Jop found to make mental errors. From repeatedly falling asleep on cutters, to refusing an open 6 foot shot in the lane, to telegraphing passes straight into defenders' hands, to his panicked 3-point heave with a full 4 seconds left on the shot clock...he is too experienced and frankly too talented to play that way.

Given the way the bench has played (and wow, Parham has really improved), even a collectively mediocre performance from the seniors would have resulted in a comfortable win.


I am largely in the "Joplin is who he is" camp, but that performance last night was just awful. For all the strides he made defensively, he looked completely lost. Then he had just some inexplicable turnovers that an experienced senior should not be making.

It really is too bad that Owens hasn't made the strides that we hoped for because if there was any time that we just needed a competant back up there, that was it.

OTOH, Parham is really playing well. And Zaide had a good stretch as well.

But man...as was said elsewhere, if you are going to be "team development," you expect seniors to step up and perform in these situations. And they largely did not do that.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 05, 2025, 08:20:23 AM
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 05, 2025, 08:08:55 AMyou really don't know basketball. Who cares how many blocks MU had. St.John's was 3-16 from three and 17-31 from the line and won the game.Do you have any idea why they won? I will help you. MU got abused on the glass.

And it's a good thing Shaka won't play people who won't play D, because we get to play D a lot with all the offensive rebounds we allow.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 05, 2025, 08:47:10 AM
Quote from: The Sultan on February 05, 2025, 08:19:31 AMI am largely in the "Joplin is who he is" camp, but that performance last night was just awful. For all the strides he made defensively, he looked completely lost. Then he had just some inexplicable turnovers that an experienced senior should not be making.

It really is too bad that Owens hasn't made the strides that we hoped for because if there was any time that we just needed a competant back up there, that was it.

OTOH, Parham is really playing well. And Zaide had a good stretch as well.

But man...as was said elsewhere, if you are going to be "team development," you expect seniors to step up and perform in these situations. And they largely did not do that.

Fair.  It's one thing for Jop to be an inconsistent shooter, but another when he has games like he did yesterday.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Big Papi on February 05, 2025, 09:01:45 AM
Lots of reasons why we lost last night but the 2 biggest are:

1. Abused on the defensive glass
2. Kam had another sub-par game

St. John's is not bigger than us.  Richmond and Luis Jr had 11 rebounds each.  Meanwhile Stevie who usually grabs a decent amount didn't have a single rebound.  Neither did Gold.  Joplin had 2.  That can't happen.  St. John's swarms the offensive glass.  That is not something out of left field.  How do you not prepare for something like that.  Fundamentals.  Pride.  Come on.  That was the biggest disappointment of the year.

The book is out on Kam and how to defend him.  His play last night is a continuation of his sub-par play going on multiple weeks.  For a player that looked like he was going to be a possible first team All-American, he is getting outplayed by the opposition's best players.  Ball and Richmond were just better than him.  He needs to figure it out if we are to win these types of games.  Maybe playing him off the ball more might do the trick but there was a stretch there where I wanted him and Jop just to ride the bench the whole game because they weren't helping.  Just silly mistakes, bad decision making and awful fouls.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 05, 2025, 09:01:50 AM
Quote from: The Sultan on February 05, 2025, 08:19:31 AMIt really is too bad that Owens hasn't made the strides that we hoped for because if there was any time that we just needed a competant back up there, that was it.

OTOH, Parham is really playing well. And Zaide had a good stretch as well.

I've always been a big believer in Zaide; I said last year, when his offense catches up to his defense, look out. I think we are there, or close to getting there.

Parham and Owens-- I thought their relative impact would be flipped. So well done Royce, Damarius your table is ready.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 09:06:22 AM
I think that Owens entire season has been impacted by being out most of September and October with a groin injury and then a foot injury.   Too much preseason work missed.  Never caught up.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: CountryRoads on February 05, 2025, 09:19:21 AM
Is the staff pushing too far trying to develop our guy's weaknesses instead of just building around their strengths?

Chase is in more or less the same role as last year and is thriving. That's why I don't like the PG talk for him. Just let him do what he already does well. Stevie in the same role as well and has been good.

Jop was challenged hard defensively and has become serviceable at the cost of his 3pt% plummeting.

Kam obviously is in a completely different role this year. He's improved in certain parts of his game but at the expense of losing the few skills that made him elite. He's also lost a lot of his swag. Also, we gambled and lost on Sean coming back this year. Inexcusable to not have a true point guard on this roster.

Ben has improved a lot defensively but he just doesn't have enough help at his position. We have three 6'8+ projects stashed on our bench that need to be ready for next year or upgrades need to be brought in.

I don't know, I think our confidence is shaken due to all the new roles and responsibilities these guys are trying to manage. Shaka always tells Kam he is going to be evaluated on 4 things and 1 isn't scoring, etc. That's just too much to put in his head.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: The Sultan on February 05, 2025, 09:27:29 AM
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 05, 2025, 09:19:21 AMIs the staff pushing too far trying to develop our guy's weaknesses instead of just building around their strengths?

Chase is in more or less the same role as last year and is thriving. That's why I don't like the PG talk for him. Just let him do what he already does well. Stevie in the same role as well and has been good.

Jop was challenged hard defensively and has become serviceable at the cost of his 3pt% plummeting.

Kam obviously is in a completely different role this year. He's improved in certain parts of his game but at the expense of losing the few skills that made him elite. He's also lost a lot of his swag. Also, we gambled and lost on Sean coming back this year. Inexcusable to not have a true point guard on this roster.

Ben has improved a lot defensively but he just doesn't have enough help at his position. We have three 6'8+ projects stashed on our bench that need to be ready for next year or upgrades need to be brought in.

I don't know, I think our confidence is shaken due to all the new roles and responsibilities these guys are trying to manage. Shaka always tells Kam he is going to be evaluated on 4 things and 1 isn't scoring, etc. That's just too much to put in his head.


I agree about Chase. I don't think Kam was going to be PG either, but the injury to Sean pretty much forced it. Hopefully he can come back so Chase isn't forced to play too much point.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: DoctorV on February 05, 2025, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: Big Papi on February 05, 2025, 09:01:45 AMLots of reasons why we lost last night but the 2 biggest are:

1. Abused on the defensive glass
2. Kam had another sub-par game

St. John's is not bigger than us.  Richmond and Luis Jr had 11 rebounds each.  Meanwhile Stevie who usually grabs a decent amount didn't have a single rebound.  Neither did Gold.  Joplin had 2.  That can't happen.  St. John's swarms the offensive glass.  That is not something out of left field.  How do you not prepare for something like that.  Fundamentals.  Pride.  Come on.  That was the biggest disappointment of the year.

The book is out on Kam and how to defend him.  His play last night is a continuation of his sub-par play going on multiple weeks.  For a player that looked like he was going to be a possible first team All-American, he is getting outplayed by the opposition's best players.  Ball and Richmond were just better than him.  He needs to figure it out if we are to win these types of games.  Maybe playing him off the ball more might do the trick but there was a stretch there where I wanted him and Jop just to ride the bench the whole game because they weren't helping.  Just silly mistakes, bad decision making and awful fouls.

This is a good post.
To #2 I would add uncharacteristically subpar play from Joplin on both ends and Stevie on offense. It's one thing for Kam or Jop or Stevie to be off, it's another for all 3 seniors to be poor at the same time...

As for the offensive glass abuse, that's the worst part for me. You won't win the battle, but coming into a game where you know that's a huge focus, or should know, it's very very bad to give up that many offensive rebounds. Forget the getting your own O rebounds part, but you've got to put an emphasis on not allowing StJ to get that many offensive rebounds- esp when you know that they are a poor shooting team and there will be a ton of O rebound attempts for them.
That just shows lack of prep, scheme, or effort and all 3 of those are no bueno.

As you said, it's not like they are massive and they only play 6 guys so Marquette should be able to throw fresh legs out there with size to be able to mitigate, and it never happened.

As for Kam two things really stand out to me on the negative side
1- he just seems like he's trying so damn hard and nothing is breaking for him. His first step seems unusually slow to me and it seems hard for him to get by his defender. Not sure if that's better competition or something else, but it's noticeable.
2- his handle and comfort on the ball seem off. Dribbling way too high and loose and just doesn't look dialed in for some reason

Those two things on top of the broken shot spell for disaster.

Not sure what the answer is outside of taking him off the ball for a bit, letting him come off screens to try to get his outside shot back. Maybe that then makes him more comfortable in all other aspects like he was earlier in the season.
Another option is to get much more creative in better and multiple screens to get him a better opening and more clear path to the basket.

We will see what Shaka draws up
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MU82 on February 05, 2025, 11:06:08 AM
Each of Kam's last 3 fouls was more foolish than the one before. We can argue all day about whether he deserved a flagrant on the 4th, but just the fact that he swiped at the ball like that when he already had 3 fouls was so foolish that I couldn't believe it.

I've generally been a Jop defender, but he was beyond awful last night.

And that's a tough kind of team for Stevie to go against offensively - he's basically a bully-ball inside player, and St. John's is a tough team to bully.

So those were our three seniors, three leaders, and they were a net negative. Given that, it's pretty surprising that we even had a chance to win.

After Ross made two FTs to pull us to 60-59 with 3:21 left, here were our next three offensive possessions:

++ Gold missed the front end of a 1-and-1
++ Joplin missed an open 3-pointer
++ Ross missed an open 3-pointer

As we fell further behind, our defense became more scrambly, and we fouled or gave up dunks.

Make the two FTs and one of the 3s, and we're in the game to the end, maybe even pull it out. So even when we play as poorly as we did for long stretches last night, it still wasn't a hopeless situation.

I agree with Shaka that St. John's simply was the better, more aggressive team and deserved to win. They have to come to Fiserv in a month, so we'll see what happens.

We're all frustrated now because we want to win, and our team definitely isn't playing good basketball for long stretches, but I still don't think the season is hopeless or lost.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: withoutbias on February 05, 2025, 11:38:13 AM
Should've rebounded better, but it's hard when the entire SJU philosophy is "chuck an ugly shot up at the rim, and then all 5 players just sprint into the backs of the opposing team and grab the ball off the floor."  A ton of their offensive rebounds weren't going high to grab them over our rebounders.  They were all chucking guys around, the ball hitting the floor, and them being on balance to grab the ball in a scrum.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MUfan12 on February 05, 2025, 12:01:04 PM
Quote from: MU82 on February 05, 2025, 11:06:08 AMWe're all frustrated now because we want to win, and our team definitely isn't playing good basketball for long stretches, but I still don't think the season is hopeless or lost.

The numbers since 12/14...

38 in T-Rank
64 in OE
33 in DE

It gets uglier under the hood.

233 in eFG%
189 in eFGD%
311 in DREB rate
314 in FT rate
278 in 2PT Defense
257 in 3PT shooting

Our season is being propped up by the non-conference performance and turnover margin. This team is going on two months of playing largely like crap. I hope like hell they can shake out of it. I don't expect them to be great in each area, but not awful would be a good place to start.

Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Johnny B on February 05, 2025, 12:13:31 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2025, 09:06:22 AMI think that Owens entire season has been impacted by being out most of September and October with a groin injury and then a foot injury.   Too much preseason work missed.  Never caught up.
You said this for ben as well. DO was a highly touted recruited. Why some 4-6 week minor injury from 5 months ago means we shouldnt expect anything from him for the whole year makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: The Sultan on February 05, 2025, 12:14:18 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on February 05, 2025, 12:13:31 PMYou said this for ben as well. DO was a highly touted recruited. Why some 4-6 week minor injury from 5 months ago means we shouldnt expect anything from him for the whole year makes no sense to me.

Well I think its more of a reason for why we haven't seen more from him. Owens hasn't exactly deserved more time than he's gotten.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on February 05, 2025, 12:15:25 PM
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 05, 2025, 12:01:04 PMThe numbers since 12/14...

38 in T-Rank
64 in OE
33 in DE

It gets uglier under the hood.

233 in eFG%
189 in eFGD%
311 in DREB rate
314 in FT rate
278 in 2PT Defense
257 in 3PT shooting

Our season is being propped up by the non-conference performance and turnover margin. This team is going on two months of playing largely like crap. I hope like hell they can shake out of it. I don't expect them to be great in each area, but not awful would be a good place to start.
I've been beating the drum about playing poorly for quite a while but had no idea it was this bad. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: rgoode57 on February 05, 2025, 12:36:56 PM
MU was not a physical match for STJ. Gold and Joplin were completely overwhelmed. But, what bothers me most was that STJ played with much more determination, energy, and focus. The game was not nearly as close as the score. Had STJ hit a decent percentage of ft's, the score would have been much worse. MU again completely outplayed by a good team. MU could lose three more BE games - Saturday at Creighton, at UConn, and at home to STJ. AT best, that would probably leave them at fourth in the BE. And, if they slip up against 'Nova or someone else, the end result could be worse.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: StillWarriors on February 05, 2025, 12:41:14 PM
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 04, 2025, 08:57:36 PMI think it is pretty clear that Kam is pressing and really feeling pressure.

The good news is that the rest of the guys have done their part for a good portion of the last month or so. He's also capable of finding confidence again...but it seems pretty clear he's got some mental stuff going on shouldering the load (or feeling like he has to).

Agreed. It is ironic, too, because his tendency would seem to be that he is too loose at times and not locked in. Maybe that was just a facade, or he has just lost confidence given some struggles with his shot amidst all the hype. I do give him a lot of credit in that he doesn't seem to pout on the court and still goes out of his way constantly to lead and be a supportive teammate. Although this has been an extended funk, I still hope and believe he will find that confidence and bust out soon. He's due to just go off at some point...just hope it is sooner than later. Finding the outside shot is the key. Teams have learned how to sit on the left hand on the drives, but that part of his game will be so much easier when he is back to raining threes.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 05, 2025, 01:38:30 PM
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 05, 2025, 08:08:55 AMyou really don't know basketball. Who cares how many blocks MU had. St.John's was 3-16 from three and 17-31 from the line and won the game.Do you have any idea why they won? I will help you. MU got abused on the glass.
Just pointing out we did defend down low. Yes obviously rebounding is an issue and it will be as long as Shaka is MU's coach. Most of his teams have been bad at rebounding, if they don't generate TO's it is hard for his teams to win. It is either getting TO's or elite offense.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 05, 2025, 01:47:46 PM
Quote from: The Sultan on February 05, 2025, 09:27:29 AMI agree about Chase. I don't think Kam was going to be PG either, but the injury to Sean pretty much forced it. Hopefully he can come back so Chase isn't forced to play too much point.
So which of the starters would have been on the bench, for Sean or the new PG? And a PG who didn't want $$$ to transfer?
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 05, 2025, 01:51:09 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 07:58:23 PM1.  Kam, ewwwwwww.  Just dumb. 
2.  Stevie, Ben, Joplin, ewwwwww.
3.  If you have watched SJU at MSG this season, you know that they are next level physical and are rewarded for it by the officials.  They feed the crowd and then the crowd feeds them.
4.  How about that bench? Zaide, Tre, Royce showed up.
5. If the bench tonight is the new normal, MU's ceiling just got higher. 
6. Chase can run the point next season.
7.  Rebounding.  More ewww.  See: SJU
at MSG.
8. Old school Big East war.
9. MU never folded.  'Fans' questioning MU's toughness are morons.
10. Taken in isolation, helluva game, helluva battle.  11 v 12, toe to toe.
11. Taken back to back with UConn, painful. Had looks, had chances, alas.


havent seen posts about toughness, but getting chewed up on offensive rebounds dictates we get bangers in there, which we do not have, Patently obvious, so "moron" away.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 05, 2025, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on February 04, 2025, 08:03:24 PMUntil Marquette gets a front court player that can rebound and protect the rim this result win occur more against good teams
Absolutely
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 05, 2025, 01:53:27 PM
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on February 04, 2025, 08:03:44 PMAll three seniors played poorly.

If the game plan is to shoot threes, then recruit guys who can make threes.
hopefully some of the frosh coming in can consi tently shoot 3s, because we do not have it now.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 05, 2025, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: Judge Smails on February 04, 2025, 08:10:59 PMThe toughest part of the schedule is almost over. Can't wait for DePaul on Feb 11
Beware.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 05, 2025, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 08:41:48 PMJop and Benny had 2 total rebounds.  Chase had 8, Zaide 6. 
Unacceptable from Jop and Goldbrick.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 05, 2025, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 04, 2025, 09:06:07 PMThe team that went 3-0 vs the Big10 has been MIA for weeks.  We are a gigantic mess on offense right now and I don't think it's going to be an easy fix, if it even can be fixed.
Everybody says our team is devlopmental.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 05, 2025, 02:05:42 PM
Quote from: withoutbias on February 05, 2025, 11:38:13 AMShould've rebounded better, but it's hard when the entire SJU philosophy is "chuck an ugly shot up at the rim, and then all 5 players just sprint into the backs of the opposing team and grab the ball off the floor."  A ton of their offensive rebounds weren't going high to grab them over our rebounders.  They were all chucking guys around, the ball hitting the floor, and them being on balance to grab the ball in a scrum.
Guess we need some bangers
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 05, 2025, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 05, 2025, 02:05:42 PMGuess we need some bangers

Like puss from an infected penis, your wisdom drips unrelentingly, Dung Willie
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on February 05, 2025, 02:26:07 PM
Quotehavent seen posts about toughness, but getting chewed up on offensive rebounds dictates we get bangers in there, which we do not have, Patently obvious, so "moron" away.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/3o6fJ9Oi4zEBLjzCow/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ipa7febcjj20u127cbcidp2u9udjhp7dorddfvc7&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 05, 2025, 06:40:14 PM
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 05, 2025, 12:01:04 PMThe numbers since 12/14...

38 in T-Rank
64 in OE
33 in DE

It gets uglier under the hood.

233 in eFG%
189 in eFGD%
311 in DREB rate
314 in FT rate
278 in 2PT Defense
257 in 3PT shooting

Our season is being propped up by the non-conference performance and turnover margin. This team is going on two months of playing largely like crap. I hope like hell they can shake out of it. I don't expect them to be great in each area, but not awful would be a good place to start.



Astounding stats.  And it's beyond perplexing for a team with experience.  Our players should be hungry and absolutely furious.  Put the ball in the basket and rebound with more tenacity for starters.  Smh.  This is unacceptable, and we have to turn this around on Saturday. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MU82 on February 05, 2025, 08:44:20 PM
Our players aren't hungry. Scoopers obviously care more than they do. Unacceptable!
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MuggsyB on February 05, 2025, 08:53:34 PM
Quote from: MU82 on February 05, 2025, 08:44:20 PMOur players aren't hungry. Scoopers obviously care more than they do. Unacceptable!

I never said that.  There's no question we have to pick up our level of play. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 07, 2025, 10:03:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izf-yaMmrFA

Matching SJU's physicality.   SJU is completely bought in to Coach Pitino's vision. 
Development of the bench near the end.
Shooting is 2% of the game.   Gotta make the other 98% as good as possible.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wisblue on February 07, 2025, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 07, 2025, 10:03:01 AMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izf-yaMmrFA

Matching SJU's physicality.   SJU is completely bought in to Coach Pitino's vision. 
Development of the bench near the end.
Shooting is 2% of the game.   Gotta make the other 98% as good as possible.


He did not say shooting is 2% of the game.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 07, 2025, 06:39:42 PM
Listen again. He said it twice, two different ways.

Unless you are being aghast...
He did NOT say THAT....

But he said it.  Twice.  Two different ways.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 07, 2025, 07:19:56 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 07, 2025, 06:39:42 PMListen again. He said it twice, two different ways.

Unless you are being aghast...
He did NOT say THAT....

But he said it.  Twice.  Two different ways.

wisblue is hard of hearing
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 07, 2025, 07:22:24 PM
His version of making himself chuckle.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wisblue on February 07, 2025, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 07, 2025, 06:39:42 PMListen again. He said it twice, two different ways.

Unless you are being aghast...
He did NOT say THAT....

But he said it.  Twice.  Two different ways.


I'm not going to listen to the whole thing again, but what I heard him say is that shooting is one factor in winning a game that gets a lot of attention, but there are 49 others and SJ is really good at the other 49. I would be interested in hearing what the other 49 factors are.

If he said that again later maybe I had tuned out. But I doubt if he means that literally. It's just a way to encourage players to focus on other aspects of the game.

Even if there are 49 factors, not all of them have to be equally important.

Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: tower912 on February 07, 2025, 07:46:48 PM
It is a fact that he says it again later in the interview.   It is also a fact that he has said in other interviews prior.  I am nearly positive that he said it in reference to Ben Gold.  I am about 75% sure he also said it in reference to the freshmen.

Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 07, 2025, 08:12:58 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 07, 2025, 07:46:48 PMIt is a fact that he says it again later in the interview.   It is also a fact that he has said in other interviews prior.  I am nearly positive that he said it in reference to Ben Gold.  I am about 75% sure he also said it in reference to the freshmen.


Facts no Matta
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on February 07, 2025, 08:17:32 PM
He knows the team is in a slump and is trying to de-emphasize to help them break out of it. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 08:25:24 AM
Quote from: rgoode57 on February 05, 2025, 12:36:56 PMMU was not a physical match for STJ. Gold and Joplin were completely overwhelmed. But, what bothers me most was that STJ played with much more determination, energy, and focus. The game was not nearly as close as the score. Had STJ hit a decent percentage of ft's, the score would have been much worse. MU again completely outplayed by a good team. MU could lose three more BE games - Saturday at Creighton, at UConn, and at home to STJ. AT best, that would probably leave them at fourth in the BE. And, if they slip up against 'Nova or someone else, the end result could be worse.
All the more reason why Shaka needs to step up his recruiting game. It appears he gas some good 3 point guys coming in, but where are the bangers? I had high hopes for this years team, but Gold and Joplin have been big disappointments. Kam playing PG and full time/only ball handler has worn him down, as I predicted. The loss of Kolek has really exposed this team as average in BEast. Absolutely must get some banger/rim protectors and dont see any on the way, unless Hamilton and Clark are hidden treasures that nobody knows about yet. Shaka has allowed UConn, Johnnies and possibly Creighton to outdistance him in BEast.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 08, 2025, 08:34:42 AM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 08:25:24 AMAll the more reason why Shaka needs to step up his recruiting game. It appears he gas some good 3 point guys coming in, but where are the bangers? I had high hopes for this years team, but Gold and Joplin have been big disappointments. Kam playing PG and full time/only ball handler has worn him down, as I predicted. The loss of Kolek has really exposed this team as average in BEast. Absolutely must get some banger/rim protectors and dont see any on the way, unless Hamilton and Clark are hidden treasures that nobody knows about yet. Shaka has allowed UConn, Johnnies and possibly Creighton to outdistance him in BEast.

Thanks, Wingdings
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 08, 2025, 09:25:51 AM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 08:25:24 AMAll the more reason why Shaka needs to step up his recruiting game. It appears he gas some good 3 point guys coming in, but where are the bangers? I had high hopes for this years team, but Gold and Joplin have been big disappointments. Kam playing PG and full time/only ball handler has worn him down, as I predicted. The loss of Kolek has really exposed this team as average in BEast. Absolutely must get some banger/rim protectors and dont see any on the way, unless Hamilton and Clark are hidden treasures that nobody knows about yet. Shaka has allowed UConn, Johnnies and possibly Creighton to outdistance him in BEast.
Don't think 3 pt. gas is the answer.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 08, 2025, 09:39:49 AM
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 08, 2025, 09:25:51 AMDon't think 3 pt. gas is the answer.

That was a pretty impressive string of sentences by Wingdings without any reference to the anus or heads inserted into the anus.  Alas, the anus is always in his head.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 09:56:10 AM
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 08, 2025, 09:25:51 AMDon't think 3 pt. gas is the answer.
Says the poster who has never had a typo. Oh to achieve perfection like you believe you have. This is a chat board, not a backboard, something which the Warriors have trouble getting rebounds from.
Hopefully you have the solutions for this team.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wadesworld on February 08, 2025, 10:02:42 AM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 09:56:10 AMSays the poster who has never had a typo. Oh to achieve perfection like you believe you have. This is a chat board, not a backboard, something which the Warriors have trouble getting rebounds from.
Hopefully you have the solutions for this team.

Art.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 08, 2025, 10:03:28 AM
Newsie-

Please get to Omaha and offer solutions to the staff.

Thanks
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 08, 2025, 11:34:08 AM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 08, 2025, 10:03:28 AMNewsie-

Please get to Omaha and offer solutions to the staff.

Thanks
Can't get there from here on time, plus have been doing bongs since early morning.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 08, 2025, 11:35:40 AM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 09:56:10 AMSays the poster who has never had a typo. Oh to achieve perfection like you believe you have. This is a chat board, not a backboard, something which the Warriors have trouble getting rebounds from.
Hopefully you have the solutions for this team.
I don't think any opinions here will be considered by the coaching staff.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: NickelDimer on February 08, 2025, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 09:56:10 AMSays the poster who has never had a typo. Oh to achieve perfection like you believe you have. This is a chat board, not a backboard, something which the Warriors have trouble getting rebounds from.
Hopefully you have the solutions for this team.
Willie out here cookin' dudes. Love to see it
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: The Sultan on February 08, 2025, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 08, 2025, 12:10:55 PMWillie out here cookin' dudes. Love to see it

With gas apparently
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 10, 2025, 03:55:18 PM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 09:56:10 AMThis is a chat board, not a backboard, something which the Warriors have trouble getting rebounds from.

(https://media.tenor.com/cJwif62R0wUAAAAC/confused-side-eye.gif)
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2025, 04:01:16 PM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 09:56:10 AMSays the poster who has never had a typo. Oh to achieve perfection like you believe you have. This is a chat board, not a backboard, something which the Warriors have trouble getting rebounds from.
Hopefully you have the solutions for this team.

If Scoop were a whiteboard, would Wojo punch it?
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2025, 04:42:24 PM
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on February 10, 2025, 03:55:18 PM(https://media.tenor.com/cJwif62R0wUAAAAC/confused-side-eye.gif)

Lol I didn't know how to respond to that line.  This is perfect.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 05:08:32 PM
Quote from: willie warrior on February 08, 2025, 09:56:10 AMSays the poster who has never had a typo. Oh to achieve perfection like you believe you have. This is a chat board, not a backboard, something which the Warriors have trouble getting rebounds from.
Hopefully you have the solutions for this team.

Outrebounded Creighton on Saturday. If they had made 4 or 5 more shots and not gotten 4 or 5 more offensive rebounds, they win.

Makes ya think!
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 11, 2025, 05:34:03 AM
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 05:08:32 PMOutrebounded Creighton on Saturday. If they had made 4 or 5 more shots and not gotten 4 or 5 more offensive rebounds, they win.

Makes ya think!

How many layups did we miss?  We'd get a rebound off a missed layup and then miss another layup.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2025, 08:12:59 AM
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 05:08:32 PMOutrebounded Creighton on Saturday. If they had made 4 or 5 more shots and not gotten 4 or 5 more offensive rebounds, they win.

Makes ya think!

Yep. I think playing the game of IF is a waste of time. And fans of our opponents can just as easily argue that they would have won by more IF...

I think playing IF is fun before an event. But post event? No thank you.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: MUfan12 on February 11, 2025, 09:06:36 AM
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 10, 2025, 05:08:32 PMOutrebounded Creighton on Saturday. If they had made 4 or 5 more shots and not gotten 4 or 5 more offensive rebounds, they win.

Makes ya think!

Making shots helps you win games.

He's not the best color man in the league for nothing, folks!
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Miss Katie’s on February 11, 2025, 10:18:37 AM
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 11, 2025, 09:06:36 AMHe's not the best color man in the league for nothing, folks!

RIP Uke. 
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2025, 10:23:07 AM
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 11, 2025, 09:06:36 AMMaking shots helps you win games.

He's not the best color man in the league for nothing, folks!

And I'm pretty sure there are no rebounds on made baskets. Just a minor point though.
Title: Re: WWE @ MSG
Post by: Newsdreams on February 11, 2025, 12:26:42 PM
Marvel's What if? Are fun
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