There is no way you can convince me that's a flagrant foul. He hit the ball out of his hand before any contact was even made, and the only contact was entirely to his arm.
Kam, Stevie, Gold all with 4 fouls with over 8 minutes left in the game. It was 7-0 fouls 7 minutes into the second half.
I feel horrible for Zaide and Royce. They get extended minutes and play an awesome game but the refs are not giving this team even remotely close to a fair whistle.
Knew that was coming tonight. Just wait though. It'll likely get worse.
Every St. John's home game they have pulled out miraculously, and usually with a lot of referee help.
I sure would like Shaka to stand up for the players. I don't have any Empirical evidence but it seems MU gets screwed consistently by a double standard on foul calls. At least a little temper tantrum might fire up the team, probably not the worst tactic with the refs either.
https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/1886950540820799551?t=ET5jddU_0gElsbFhwTPJ_A&s=19
Guys we are fouling a lot. SJU is by far the more aggressive team.
We fouled like crazy. We left out feet and jumped on guys backs
We got fouls called too
Ben had a chance and wilted under pressure. Loves being a total no show on offense lately
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 07:51:56 PMGuys we are fouling a lot. SJU is by far the more aggressive team.
They foul the hell out of ball handlers every possession. It's a 31-12 FT discrepancy, with multiple front end misses by SJU. We have one starter fouled out and 3 more with 4 fouls. Kam, Stevie, Gold all had to sit multiple minutes. They never gave us a shot.
And there were bad calls on both teams. It's college basketball.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 07:51:56 PMGuys we are fouling a lot. SJU is by far the more aggressive team.
Is SJU fouling a lot?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 07:54:34 PMThey foul the hell out of ball handlers every possession. It's a 31-12 FT discrepancy, with multiple front end misses by SJU. We have one starter fouled out and 3 more with 4 fouls. Kam, Stevie, Gold all had to sit multiple minutes. They never gave us a shot.
Again SJU is relentlessly attacking the rim while we're flipping up prayers. The disparity makes perfect sense.
It's a 2 and a half hour game.
Total ref show.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 07:56:45 PMYes. Not as much as Marquette.
You believe the refs are calling the fouls evenly?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 07:58:27 PMIt's a 2 and a half hour game.
Total ref show.
Yep. Lots of calls.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2025, 07:58:41 PMYou believe the refs are calling the fouls evenly?
Evenly? No obviously.
Fairly? Yep. SJU is way more aggressive about attacking the rim. That will translate into fouls.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 08:00:14 PMEvenly? No obviously.
Fairly? Yep. SJU is way more aggressive about attacking the rim. That will translate into fouls.
"Evenly" to me doesn't mean equal # of fouls called.
Evenly means calling the same actions fouls on both ends of the court.
I concede that Marquette fouled a lot in the 2nd half. And the refs called them.
I contend SJU fouled a lot in the 2nd half. And the refs didn't call them at the same rate.
The refs made some bad calls. They didn't change the outcome.
SJU is uber aggressive at home. They are rewarded.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 07:51:56 PMGuys we are fouling a lot. SJU is by far the more aggressive team.
You're not wrong but if you look at it more closely in both halves St. J had 2 fouls at the 10 min mark. It was definitely an uneven whistle and they were extremely aggressive defensively.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 04, 2025, 08:02:59 PMThe refs made some bad calls. They didn't change the outcome.
Agreed. We have to be tougher. Catching the ball would help as well.
Frankly, there were very few underserved fouls in that game.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 04, 2025, 08:02:59 PMThe refs made some bad calls. They didn't change the outcome.
I agree with this.
Rebounding.. yikes
We need to hit shots and free throws. That would help us win lol. We'll get our groove back.....
Quote from: Daniel on February 04, 2025, 08:09:23 PMWe need to hit shots and free throws. That would help us win lol. We'll get our groove back.....
Agreed.
I've seen a pushing an airborne player flagrant called twice in my life. Both by Breeding at the Garden.
My question is why was Theo tossed while Kam wasn't? Breeding ruled pushing an airborne player on both.
There were a few calls (Kam's flagrant, Royce on the rebound late 2H) I disagreed with. But Marquette was playing dumbass defense for most of it. Jumping at everything, bad closeouts, reaching in.
It also helps to have physically mature guys who just power through the contact and don't have to contort themselves. That costs MU trips to the line as well.
Quote from: Daniel on February 04, 2025, 08:09:23 PMWe need to hit shots and free throws. That would help us win lol. We'll get our groove back.....
Maybe. Likely another loss at Creighton. Team looks out of sorts.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2025, 08:02:09 PM"Evenly" to me doesn't mean equal # of fouls called.
Evenly means calling the same actions fouls on both ends of the court.
I concede that Marquette fouled a lot in the 2nd half. And the refs called them.
I contend SJU fouled a lot in the 2nd half. And the refs didn't call them at the same rate.
Of course you'd say that.
Losers whine about the refs.
There are always a few bad calls every game, but this loss was on all the starters except Chase.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 07:51:56 PMGuys we are fouling a lot. SJU is by far the more aggressive team.
You're like f*cking Batman seeing the bat signal except it's when anyone criticizes the refs. Get some help.
Quote from: Jockey on February 04, 2025, 08:28:06 PMLosers whine about the refs.
There are always a few bad calls every game, but this loss was on all the starters except Chase.
Chase was the only player allowed to be on the court. Hard to play well when every 35 seconds you have to go to the bench with a foul that's not called on the other end of the court.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:31:58 PMYou're like f*cking Batman seeing the bat signal except it's when anyone criticizes the refs. Get some help.
Why would I get help? I'm trying to educate those who don't understand the game. It's the cross I must bear.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 08:34:27 PMChase was the only player allowed to be on the court. Hard to play well when every 35 seconds you have to go to the bench with a foul that's not called on the other end of the court.
🙄🙄🙄
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 08:23:14 PMOf course you'd say that.
Ok?
Do you believe STJ fouled a lot and the refs called them at the same rate they called them against MU?
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 08:35:40 PMWhy would I get help? I'm trying to educate those who don't understand the game. It's the cross I must bear.
Nope.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 08:35:40 PMWhy would I get help? I'm trying to educate those who don't understand the game. It's the cross I must bear.
Blue is the new teal. Well done on your sarcasm! But well we are at it basketball sage, if a shot from the elbow isn't a mid range shot, what is it?
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2025, 08:38:31 PMOk?
Do you believe STJ fouled a lot and the refs called them at the same rate they called them against MU?
Marquette fouls more than most other NCAA teams, called or not. Hard for me to complain.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2025, 08:38:31 PMOk?
Do you believe STJ fouled a lot and the refs called them at the same rate they called them against MU?
I said they called the game fairly.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 08:34:27 PMChase was the only player allowed to be on the court. Hard to play well when every 35 seconds you have to go to the bench with a foul that's not called on the other end of the court.
And 4 of the 5 starters on the Johnnies had 4 fouls. Kam was on the bench because of one person - Kam. His first 3 fouls were all dumb fouls.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 04, 2025, 08:40:18 PMBlue is the new teal. Well done on your sarcasm! But well we are at it basketball sage, if a shot from the elbow isn't a mid range shot, what is it?
lol. This is the guy who thinks high major players shoot 50% from midrange. Not gonna listen to you if you're spouting that nonsense.
Anyway shots in the lane are not midrange.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 04, 2025, 08:02:59 PMThe refs made some bad calls. They didn't change the outcome.
I don't agree. This game isn't close if SJU doesn't miss 13 of their first 25 free throws. While a number of those were fouls, several were not. Meanwhile MU gets bodied and slapped every possession and the didn't start getting calls until SJU had pulled away.
MU played poorly and didn't deserve to win. But the refs definitely impacted the game in a negative fashion for MU.
Quote from: Jockey on February 04, 2025, 08:41:33 PMAnd 4 of the 5 starters on the Johnnies had 4 fouls. Kam was on the bench because of one person - Kam. His first 3 fouls were all dumb fouls.
And all but Wiltcher's came in the last 3 minutes of the game. Their starters played 35, 36, 40, 37, and 16 minutes. Ours played 26, 28, 36, 25, and 23. Our All American got called for his second foul jumping straight up, just like SJU did all game and didn't get called for. He got called for his third in the first half for getting around a screen in the same way that happens 40+ times a game. I've seen that called...well, once this year. He got called for a flagrant for his fourth on what was closer to not even being a foul than any kind of flagrant.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 08:45:39 PMAnd all but Wiltcher's came in the last 3 minutes of the game. Their starters played 35, 36, 40, 37, and 16 minutes. Ours played 26, 28, 36, 25, and 23. Our All American got called for his second foul jumping straight up, just like SJU did all game and didn't get called for. He got called for his third in the first half for getting around a screen in the same way that happens 40+ times a game. I've seen that called...well, once this year.
Cmon. You're smarter than this. Don't fall into the foul counting trap.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 08:44:04 PMI can't help you if you can't learn.
You're projecting.
The issue you is you always excuse poor, one-sided officiating even when the criticism is clearly justified.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 08:47:13 PMCmon. You're smarter than this. Don't fall into the foul counting trap.
Especially in this game. Both teams decided to foul early and often and see what would actually be called. FAFO.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:48:53 PMYou're projecting.
The issue you is you always excuse poor, one-sided officiating even when the criticism is clearly justified.
Nope. The issue is that I know more about basketball than you do.
Having watched multiple SJU @MSG games, I found the officiating utterly predictable. In fact, I did predict it in the SJU game thread prior to the tip.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 08:49:14 PMEspecially in this game. Both teams decided to foul early and often and see what would actually be called. FAFO.
The issue is both teams did decide to foul early and often. They just waited to call the fouls on SJU until much later in the game than they started seeing what they could get away with. It was 7-2 in fouls mid way through the first and 7-0 in fouls 7 minutes into the second.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 08:50:38 PMNope. The issue is that I know more about basketball than you do.
No, you don't. You definitely have a leg up on being a condescending prick so congrats on that.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2025, 08:52:11 PMThe issue is both teams did decide to foul early and often. They just waited to call the fouls on SJU until much later in the game than they started seeing what they could get away with. It was 7-2 in fouls mid way through the first and 7-0 in fouls 7 minutes into the second.
Sigh. I guess you are going to fall into the foul counting trap...
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 08:52:20 PMNo, you don't. You definitely have a leg up on being a condescending prick so congrats on that.
I know more about basketball than you AND I am coming off as a condescending prick because my knowledge is making you feel inadequate. Sorry about that.
Death, taxes predictable. Sultan will not blame a loss on bad officiating and it will piss other posters off. The classics never go out of style.
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:54:36 PMDeath, taxes predictable. Sultan will not blame a loss on bad officiating and it will piss other posters off. The classics never go out of style.
I always play the hits.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 04, 2025, 08:54:31 PMI know more about basketball than you AND I am coming off as a condescending prick because my knowledge is making you feel inadequate. Sorry about that.
Dork
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:54:36 PMDeath, taxes predictable. Sultan will not blame a loss on bad officiating and it will piss other posters off. The classics never go out of style.
Can't we say the officiating was bad or uneven but it wasn't the reason for the loss?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 04, 2025, 08:12:01 PMI've seen a pushing an airborne player flagrant called twice in my life. Both by Breeding at the Garden.
My question is why was Theo tossed while Kam wasn't? Breeding ruled pushing an airborne player on both.
Just wanted to add... Theo also didn't get anyone in the head area. Though I'd argue Kam didn't either.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2025, 09:02:08 PMCan't we say the officiating was bad or uneven but it wasn't the reason for the loss?
Sultan will not allow that. Reffed a lot of junior high games in his day.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2025, 09:02:08 PMCan't we say the officiating was bad or uneven but it wasn't the reason for the loss?
I think you should.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 04, 2025, 09:02:08 PMCan't we say the officiating was bad or uneven but it wasn't the reason for the loss?
Yup. We were still in a position to win it in the end despite the officiating.
I personally did not complain about the refs in the game thread tonight or blame the loss on the refs.
However, consistently criticizing anyone that legitimately questions the quality of the officiating or if it impacted the outcome of a game does not equate to knowing ball. It just makes you a douche.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 04, 2025, 08:40:18 PMBlue is the new teal. Well done on your sarcasm! But well we are at it basketball sage, if a shot from the elbow isn't a mid range shot, what is it?
MU missed all mid range shots tonight
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 04, 2025, 09:23:42 PMMU missed all mid range shots tonight
Clearly SJU should have taken a few bong hits to overcome that crowd pressure.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 09:19:19 PMYou should feel refreshed!
::)
Feel free to send me a PM to refresh my memory on why I get a passive-aggressive (or just aggressive) comment from you every now and again.
In the sh*tshow that is Scoop I'm curious.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 09:28:59 PM::)
Feel free to send me a PM to refresh my memory on why I get a passive-aggressive (or just aggressive) comment from you every now and again.
In the sh*tshow that is Scoop I'm curious.
No PM needed. Since I must explain it, that was a clever joke about a douche being refreshing. Apparently too clever for you.
Anything else? Probably when your comments are inane. Feel free to hit me back on that!
Why do we keep attacking one another? We're on the same side. I'd be happy to list a few hundred people or so who should be taken out.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 09:38:34 PMWhy do we keep attacking one another? We're on the same side. I'd be happy to list a few hundred people or so who should be taken out.
Sounds like a totalitarian regime, I guess is now part of the landscape.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 04, 2025, 09:23:42 PMMU missed all mid range shots tonight
...that were all taken out of desperation, none from a designed play/pick to free Jop for an easy elbow jumper. I suspect Zaide would also shoot well from FT line extended off of picks.
It's interesting that Tom Izzo and Rick Pitno don't subscribe to the no mid range game. Richmond had a number of middies tonight, taken in rhythm.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 04, 2025, 09:41:03 PM...that were all taken out of desperation, none from a designed play/pick to free Jop for an easy elbow jumper. I suspect Zaide would also shoot well from FT line extended off of picks.
It's interesting that Tom Izzo and Rick Pitno don't subscribe to the no mid range game. Richmond had a number of middies tonight, taken in rhythm.
Nope
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 09:38:34 PMWhy do we keep attacking one another? We're on the same side.
It's part of the online appeal. If you don't see an opinion that you vehemently agree or disagree with, the internet dies.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 04, 2025, 09:41:03 PM...that were all taken out of desperation, none from a designed play/pick to free Jop for an easy elbow jumper. I suspect Zaide would also shoot well from FT line extended off of picks.
It's interesting that Tom Izzo and Rick Pitno don't subscribe to the no mid range game. Richmond had a number of middies tonight, taken in rhythm.
And by no means SJU won because of mid range shots
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 04, 2025, 09:40:29 PMSounds like a totalitarian regime, I guess is now part of the landscape.
Okay. Maybe we can talk about 🥑 🥑 being an ingredient in Guacamole in lieu of being political?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 09:42:29 PMIt's part of the online appeal. If you don't see an opinion that you vehemently agree or disagree with, the internet dies.
That's different than attacking people personally which some here do.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 09:48:26 PMOkay. Maybe we can talk about 🥑 🥑 being an ingredient in Guacamole in lieu of being political?
Close to getting tariffs
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 09:48:26 PMOkay. Maybe we can talk about 🥑 🥑 being an ingredient in Guacamole in lieu of being political?
It's the most important ingredient. Cilantro is probably second even though some people think it tastes like soap.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 09:51:56 PMIt's the most important ingredient. Cilantro is probably second even though some people think it tastes like soap.
Always use a red onion in guac.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 09:52:51 PMAlways use a red onion in guac.
Onion (any type) is the 3rd most important. But some people hate onion too.
We played tonight as if we hate onions.
Also, throw in chopped garlic, tomatoes, cilantro, lime juice, a red jalapeño or serrano, salt,a pinch of cumin, and a few drops of olive oil. If you refuse to use a mortar and pestle for the right consistency then you have failed miserably.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 10:01:42 PMlime juice, a red jalapeño or serramo, salt
Thank you, I was worried nobody was going to mention the important ingredients, even if they're a small part of the equation. Personally I lean toward habanero, just not a jalapeno fan.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 10:01:42 PMcilantro
That was 2nd most important!
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 10:07:33 PMThank you, I was worried nobody was going to mention the important ingredients, even if they're a small part of the equation. Personally I lean toward habanero, just not a jalapeno fan.
That was 2nd most important!
I like the red jalapeño.
Flank steak or skirt steak for carne asada?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 10:12:24 PMI like the red jalapeño.
They're just a "riper" green jalapeno! Still inferior to the actual spicy peppers.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 10:13:03 PMFlank steak or skirt steak for carne asada?
Why would anyone order Carne Asada over Carnitas!?!
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 10:14:26 PMThey're just a "riper" green jalapeno! Still inferior to the actual spicy peppers.
I enjoy habeneros as well.
This is making me hungry, hungry for a win
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 10:16:56 PMI enjoy habeneros as well.
Despite any intentional arguing, I genuinely despise jalapenos.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 10:15:34 PMWhy would anyone order Carne Asada over Carnitas!?!
I'm pro carnitas unless you're an idiot and serve them with a flour tortilla. Soft corn, white onion, cilantro, pico or a hot salsa.
What's the verdict on birra tacos?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 10:18:45 PMI'm pro carnitas
Quote from: DoctorV on February 04, 2025, 10:17:29 PMThis is making me hungry
We can all agree. But I just downed some smoked/grilled chicken, with rice, broccoli, topped with some teriyaki. Simple but delicious meal after a loss :(
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2025, 10:22:48 PMWe can all agree. But I just downed some smoked/grilled chicken, with rice, broccoli, topped with some teriyaki. Simple but delicious meal after a loss :(
I made a tremendous shrimp scampi. It was freaking phenomenal. Great call by me using angel hair pasta. :)
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 10:27:58 PMI made a tremendous shrimp scampi. It was freaking phenomenal. Great call by me using angel hair pasta. :)
Don't hurt yourself there! But angel hair always works with shrimp.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 04, 2025, 09:03:14 PMSultan will not allow that. Reffed a lot of junior high games in his day.
Actually that's exactly what I think. Maybe you should read what I wrote about officiating instead of assuming what I wrote. This is why I mock you - you can't comprehend my point.
But hey, you got the "dork" part right.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 04, 2025, 10:13:03 PMFlank steak or skirt steak for carne asada?
I prefer manatee ceviche
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2025, 08:54:36 PMDeath, taxes predictable. Sultan will not blame a loss on bad officiating and it will piss other posters off. The classics never go out of style.
I'm with Sultan. There are rare cases where it happens. Almost always it is the losing team's fans whining.
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 05, 2025, 05:46:37 AMI prefer manatee ceviche
Manatees ar endangered but remain strong. Stop attacking and mocking them.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 05, 2025, 08:50:00 AMStop attacking and mocking them.
Eating still ok though?