Celebration day without doing the work.
1. If you want to have a National Marquette Day, you have to play like it matters. For 10 minutes of gametime
, the team did not t
play like it mattered.
2. FT rate matters. FT made mattered more tonight.
3. The crowd wanted to be here. The team, maybe.
4. The greatest EGB is passing. Although Solo Ball was on UConn, Marquette honored that concept more.
5. Burn the tape. Get a chip on your shoulder. Do better.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 01, 2025, 09:55:01 PMCelebration day without doing the work.
1. If you want to have a National Marquette Day, you have to play like it matters. For 10 minutes of gametime
, the team did not t
play like it mattered.
I think that they played like it mattered too much.
Lots of issues tonight but I don't see lack of effort being one of them.
Quote from: Mutaman on February 01, 2025, 09:58:19 PMI think that they played like it mattered too much.
Lots of issues tonight but I don't see lack of effort being one of them.
First 5ish minutes was loose. Too loose. Until 4 3s from UConn that they never recovered from.
I'm most frustrated with how selfish the offense was. Sure, ft was...worse than how I felt at the NC state game. But it felt like no one looked to their teammates the entire game. AAU at its best.
Worst performance I've seen live. Hope the boys turn it around quickly.
Gonna be a rough couple years. I have faith in Zaide and see glimpses of Tre. I want to believe in DO because he looks the part. But slim pickings there.
My opinion. We outplayed them. But we did not hit open shots. They were on fire. They made their big shots when they needed buckets.
UConn committed 25 turnovers to MU's 8 and won by 8 points. That's almost unheard of. Just shows how bad MU played.
Quote from: GB Warrior on February 01, 2025, 10:04:39 PMGonna be a rough couple years. I have faith in Zaide and see glimpses of Tre. I want to believe in DO because he looks the part. But slim pickings there.
This is dumb.
Quote from: GB Warrior on February 01, 2025, 10:04:39 PMGonna be a rough couple years. I have faith in Zaide and see glimpses of Tre. I want to believe in DO because he looks the part. But slim pickings there.
Fire Shaka.
Quote from: forgetful on February 01, 2025, 10:04:49 PMMy opinion. We outplayed them. But we did not hit open shots. They were on fire. They made their big shots when they needed buckets.
Outside of the first 15 minutes I agree. 29-9 advantage on points off turnovers, 13 offensive rebounds, only 8 turnovers, 11 steals. Just dug too big of a hole
Maybe too much hoopla around these home games. Stripe out this, stripe out that. Honor this, honor that. The moms dancing during games, etc. Fact is our team has come out tighter than a nun's ass more often than not at home this year so something needs to change with preparation or with their mindset heading into these home games. Our effort is awesome but we look terrified of making a mistake.
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 01, 2025, 10:13:38 PMMaybe too much hoopla around these home games. Stripe out this, stripe out that. Honor this, honor that. The moms dancing during games, etc. Fact is our team has come out tighter than a nun's ass more often than not at home this year so something needs to change with preparation or with their mindset heading into these home games. Our effort is awesome but we look terrified of making a mistake.
You win scoop tonight.
I laughed
The bottom line is the team has had crappy starts to games for the past month. This is something that Shaka needs to fix or the season will end sooner than we hoped it would.
Quote from: mugrad_89 on February 01, 2025, 10:22:33 PMThe bottom line is the team has had crappy starts to games for the past month. This is something that Shaka needs to fix or the season will end sooner than we hoped it would.
Yep. Starts Tuesday.
I thought we were a little too juiced up to start the game. Missed some shots we should make. UConn came out hot. Then you could see the pressure mount quickly and we start missing free throws.
Cant lose Ball on defense.
Hard to come back down 22. We do battle.
I don't think Uconn is better than us but they were today.
Hopefully we see some shots go in against the stj.
We got crushed (again) on the boards and our shooting was atrocious. Our ball pressure was great but we missed rotations and gave up a lot of easy baskets. BTW, where has Ben Gold been??? 20 minutes, zero points, rebounds and assists. Last game he played 26 minutes and while pulling down 7 rebounds again failed to score. We need him to step-up badly.
We didn't handle the pressure of the moment and they did. It manifested itself in a number of ways and amplified many of our issues in our h-c offense.
Quote from: mugrad_89 on February 01, 2025, 10:22:33 PMThe bottom line is the team has had crappy starts to games for the past month. This is something that Shaka needs to fix or the season will end sooner than we hoped it would.
This. Being a 2nd half team is fine. Spotting the opponent a healthy 1st half lead every game is a problem. Yes, we have enough talent to overcome that deficit against Butler and Georgetown and DePaul. Those teams aren't making the NCAA Tournament. The way this team is playing to start games, they are begging to lose to a 14 seed in March.
I think two of UConn's worst 3P shooters combined to make their first 4 three pointers. I think the team started pressing after that and it took them 16 minutes to get over it.
It's weird to say, but I think we outplayed them, but they outshot us. Sometimes that's enough. Win the next two and it doesn't matter.
How rare is it for a team to force 25 TOs and lose?
Quote from: ski44 on February 01, 2025, 11:06:30 PMHow rare is it for a team to force 25 TOs and lose?
This is the third time it has happened to MU since 1939
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 01, 2025, 11:01:38 PMIt's weird to say, but I think we outplayed them, but they outshot us. Sometimes that's enough. Win the next two and it doesn't matter.
To this point:
https://x.com/ShotQualityBets/status/1885896675413402024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Escreen-name%3APaintTouches%7Ctwcon%5Es1
Shotquality is certainly not the end all/be all. But it can be useful to just get a sense of whether teams were generating good looks or not.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 01, 2025, 11:01:38 PMI think two of UConn's worst 3P shooters combined to make their first 4 three pointers. I think the team started pressing after that and it took them 16 minutes to get over it.
It's weird to say, but I think we outplayed them, but they outshot us. Sometimes that's enough. Win the next two and it doesn't matter.
Not a snarky question ... what factors in determining who played better are more important than making shots?
I think tonight proves that if you make shots, it can cover up a lot of deficiencies elsewhere. And, conversely, how well you perform in other areas can be rendered pretty meaningless if you're not making shots.
We didn't outplay them because they did the most important thing much better than we did.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 01, 2025, 11:22:58 PMNot a snarky question ... what factors in determining who played better are more important than making shots?
I think tonight proves that if you make shots, it can cover up a lot of deficiencies elsewhere. And, conversely, how well you perform in other areas can be rendered pretty meaningless if you're not making shots.
We didn't outplay them because they did the most important thing much better than we did.
Over the course of a season, if you force your opponent to take more difficult shots (guarded 2s/3s, long 2s, 3s by non 3 point shooters, etc) and you take easy shots (unguarded 2s/3s, layups, dunks, etc) you will win more games than you lose. But in a sample size of 1, you can force your opponent to take a ton of difficult shots, but they all go in anyway. And you can take all easy shots, but they all rim out.
That's all I'm saying here.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 01, 2025, 11:01:38 PMI think two of UConn's worst 3P shooters combined to make their first 4 three pointers. I think the team started pressing after that and it took them 16 minutes to get over it.
It's weird to say, but I think we outplayed them, but they outshot us. Sometimes that's enough. Win the next two and it doesn't matter.
Maybe you're right but this team is way too experienced and well coached to let that happen. There's no reason known to man that a few early threes should unsettle a team of Marquette's caliber.
Didn't expect the shot quality +23 stuff, and I don't really follow shot quality because I don't like the idea or 'making excuses,' but i said several times tonight to my group that it was a unicorn game because Marquette was the better team but was out of it wire to wire.
I'd say it happens, but I'd bet if someone looked up shot quality stuff Marquette has never lost a game where it was projected to win by that much.
At the end of the day, nothing mattas outside of tickling the twine with the pumpkin.
Marquette played excellent defense tonight but will take a bath in defensive metrics, and at the end of the day an L is n L.
Onto the Garden
Quote from: DoctorV on February 01, 2025, 11:51:37 PMDidn't expect the shot quality +23 stuff, and I don't really follow shot quality because I don't like the idea or 'making excuses,' but i said several times tonight to my group that it was a unicorn game because Marquette was the better team but was out of it wire to wire.
I'd say it happens, but I'd bet if someone looked up shot quality stuff Marquette has never lost a game where it was projected to win by that much.
At the end of the day, nothing mattas outside of tickling the twine with the pumpkin.
Marquette played excellent defense tonight but will take a bath in defensive metrics, and at the end of the day an L is n L.
Onto the Garden
You would think we'll play a lot looser on Tues but we're going to have to rebound. And that includes everyone.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 01, 2025, 11:37:54 PMOver the course of a season, if you force your opponent to take more difficult shots (guarded 2s/3s, long 2s, 3s by non 3 point shooters, etc) and you take easy shots (unguarded 2s/3s, layups, dunks, etc) you will win more games than you lose. But in a sample size of 1, you can force your opponent to take a ton of difficult shots, but they all go in anyway. And you can take all easy shots, but they all rim out.
That's all I'm saying here.
I probably wouldn't disagree with the idea that if MU and UConn played this exact same game 10 times, with the only difference being shot making, MU wins most of those games. But tonight they hit the shots and Marquette didn't, and hence (IMO) they outplayed MU.
Such a strange game. I thought man our defense is actually good, but then you look at UConn's offensive stats. Terrible offense, really no movement, but we had a chance. I'm probably most salty that me and the boys went all out, had a few, I was especially vocal, and we lost. Total bummer
Quote from: Pakuni on February 02, 2025, 12:01:54 AMI probably wouldn't disagree with the idea that if MU and UConn played this exact same game 10 times, with the only difference being shot making, MU wins most of those games. But tonight they hit the shots and Marquette didn't, and hence (IMO) they outplayed MU.
I'd guess that UConn wins 8 out of 10 against MU. Their roster is much better and taller at most every position. It is not a good matchup for MU. We haven't beat them the past two seasons.
Quote from: forgetful on February 01, 2025, 10:04:49 PMMy opinion. We outplayed them. But we did not hit open shots. They were on fire. They made their big shots when they needed buckets.
This. This was a weird game in that at 28-13 down I thought we had outplayed them in many respects. We were getting more shots, more good shots, getting the rebounds/loose balls, we just could not make a freakin' shot and when they got a shot they would not miss.
The lead from that point on was just too much to overcome.
I'm not familiar with how Shot Quality is measured, but I wonder how well it factors in things like who is taking the shots, how well guarded they are, and how well balanced the player is when taking the shots.
Maybe more importantly, can it take into account how the game situation affects how the game is played?
I'm not taking any consolation from statistics that say that MU "outplayed" UConn last night. Shooting ("putting the ball in the basket") is the essence of the game and if you can't do it consistently you might win more than you lose against much inferior opponents, but it isn't going to win championships.
I compare it to playing golf with putting yips. You can "outplay" someone in terms of hitting fairways and greens, but if you fail consistently in the most important aspect of the sport your ceiling is very limited.
At some point we just need to agree this team is who they are. It's been a big enough sample over the last month that these last few games are not outliers anymore. This team imo is capable of making a deep run into march depending on the matchups but If i was a betting man, they will struggle to win the 1st game similar to last year, and the get bounced in the 2nd round because of slow starts. To turn your opponent over 25 times and still lose... I don't even know what to say about that.
I agree wisblue, I take no consolation, either. I thought we outplayed them in many respects, but putting the ball in the basket is the most important thing in basketball, and we certainly did not outplay them in that respect.
Home losses are killers if we want to win the Big East. We really need to get this one back at Creighton or St. John's.
I have no ideas on measurement either. The one thinny I look at is rhythm shots. I felt UConn's were in rhythm. One play in particular second half started with a quick pass to top of key to wing to corner for rhythm 3. It was all Huskies players making an IMMEDIATE pass. I seen no such thing with Marquette. Our first half offense was dribble to between the restricted area and the Big East logo, turn our backs, and do 3 pivots before you maybe had to pass.
Quote from: wisblue on February 02, 2025, 06:31:25 AMI'm not familiar with how Shot Quality is measured, but I wonder how well it factors in things like who is taking the shots, how well guarded they are, and how well balanced the player is when taking the shots.
Maybe more importantly, can it take into account how the game situation affects how the game is played?
I'm not taking any consolation from statistics that say that MU "outplayed" UConn last night. Shooting ("putting the ball in the basket") is the essence of the game and if you can't do it consistently you might win more than you lose against much inferior opponents, but it isn't going to win championships.
I compare it to playing golf with putting yips. You can "outplay" someone in terms of hitting fairways and greens, but if you fail consistently in the most important aspect of the sport your ceiling is very limited.
Jop does a lot of nice things on defense, but he just murders their flow any time he puts it on the floor.
Quote from: Norm on February 02, 2025, 01:05:41 AMI'd guess that UConn wins 8 out of 10 against MU. Their roster is much better and taller at most every position. It is not a good matchup for MU. We haven't beat them the past two seasons.
Huh?
Karaban 6'8" vs Joplin 6'8"
Johnson 6'10" vs Gold 6'10"
Stewart 6'7" vs Ross 6'5"
Ball 6'2" vs Jones 6'5"
Diarra 6'2" vs Mitchell 6'2"
I'm lowering expectations.
Will root and hope for wins these next too road games but ...
I'm lowering expectations.
Yeah, I don't think Marquette was "uninspired" at all. If anything, they were too would up.
But just the oddest boxscore. Marquette created 21 turnovers...yet allowed UConn to have an EFG of .738.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 02, 2025, 12:01:54 AMI probably wouldn't disagree with the idea that if MU and UConn played this exact same game 10 times, with the only difference being shot making, MU wins most of those games. But tonight they hit the shots and Marquette didn't, and hence (IMO) they outplayed MU.
It sounds like you agree but don't like my vocab choice. Insert whatever word(s) you think work better
UCONN hit 3's at an unusually high clip. They were open and Ball was hot but we have watched plenty of games where UCONN misses open threes. You add our FT debacle and you're not beating teams when that happens. Our FT misses in the 1H allowed this game to get beyond our reach.
Now all this said, people are rightfully concerned about Kam's shot. It completely changes our offense if he has no confidence in it and teams sag off of him. I don't know what has transpired but we're talking about a young man who has always been a great shooter. Right now he doesn't have it and it makes things really difficult for us.
Part of it may be he's a lot more comfortable in catch and shoots, as most players are, but the ball looks different to me coming out of his hands. I don't see much rotation and he's launched a number of shots that were nowhere close to going in. This simply did not happen earlier in the season. I do believe he can find his shot, and soon, but the bottom line is we have a very limited ceiling if he stays in this slump.
I would perhaps move him off the ball for short stints and have Stevie run the offense. I also believe zooming down the court, almost insisting on getting a shot quickly literally every time down the floor, has hurt us vs set defenses. We have to play with pace but also space, and utilize the pass more with all 5 guys on the floor. 5 total assists last night is an abomination.
Kam has not "always been a great shooter." His career 3 point shooting is about 37%, which is good, but Kam's ability as a scorer has always been balancing the outside shooting with the ability to attack the rim.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 02, 2025, 07:40:21 AMHuh?
Karaban 6'8" vs Joplin 6'8"
Johnson 6'10" vs Gold 6'10"
Stewart 6'7" vs Ross 6'5"
Ball 6'2" vs Jones 6'5"
Diarra 6'2" vs Mitchell 6'2"
Last season is totally irrelevant.
UConn had a dominating national championship team and MU played them twice without Kolek, with Oso seeming to not recover from the flu, and, in the BE Final, Mitchell being significantly impaired from the beatings he had taken the previous two nights.
The difference this year is that UConn still has an elite offense and 3 point shooting and at times they took advantage of MU's aggressive defense to work the ball around for 20-25 seconds before getting a decent shot, which they made often enough to maintain their lead.
When they had the 10-15 point lead for much of the second half, even the shot clock violations were useful possessions because they ran 30 seconds off the clock and eliminated the possibility of a quick basket by MU that can come from a live ball turnover or long rebound.
UConn's weakness this year has been its defense, but MU was not able to take advantage of that and didn't get many of the fast break points that take the pressure off of its sketchy half court offense.
It's a bad matchup for MU and anyone who thinks MU would beat them 8 out of 10 times needs adjustments in their blue and gold glasses. MU will be fortunate to beat them 1 out of 2 times and, if it comes to that, 1 out of 3.
I blame Fox for not giving us Benetti and Raftery on the call. 👀
I'm with ya on this one, Blue. If you had a combined starting five, it'd be Kam and four Huskies. And Hurley was freaking surgical with how he took apart MU's defense.
MU came out doing exactly what they should have done, drive at them. But they were too shook to finish, either at the hoop or the FT line.
They may not win these next two, but I gotta see a helluva lot more from them than I saw last night.
Quote from: Big Papi on February 01, 2025, 10:28:54 PMI thought we were a little too juiced up to start the game. Missed some shots we should make. UConn came out hot. Then you could see the pressure mount quickly and we start missing free throws.
Cant lose Ball on defense.
Hard to come back down 22. We do battle.
I don't think Uconn is better than us but they were today.
Hopefully we see some shots go in against the stj.
Not sure about that. One of UConn's best players was sitting on the bench. They are a damn good team.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 02, 2025, 09:36:50 AMI'm with ya on this one, Blue. If you had a combined starting five, it'd be Kam and four Huskies. And Hurley was freaking surgical with how he took apart MU's defense.
MU came out doing exactly what they should have done, drive at them. But they were too shook to finish, either at the hoop or the FT line.
They may not win these next two, but I gotta see a helluva lot more from them than I saw last night.
It would not be Kam and 4 Huskies.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 02, 2025, 08:56:49 AMIt sounds like you agree but don't like my vocab choice. Insert whatever word(s) you think work better
No, I don't agree at all. Your assessment that Marquette outplayed UConn last night eliminates shot making from the equation. Shot making, IMO, is arguably the most important factor in determining which team played better. It's certainly one of the most, if not most, important factor in determining who wins. If last night doesn't prove that, I'm not sure what does.
Just can't buy the argument that the team that shot 20% worse overall, 32% worse from three and 24% worse from the line played better.
As disappointing a game as I can remember-
You simply cannot leave points sitting there with missed bunnies and atrocious free throw percentage.
UConn fouls a lot- that was known. And to simply miss FT after free throw when facing such a team... at home... is inviting trouble.
And another game, at home, where they played an awful first half. Better in the second half, but the game can't be won consistently when beginning the contest at the 20 minute mark. Butler, we did against an inferior team- but X and UC, squads that already gonna be tough outs, fuhgetaboutit.
Sure, UC hit 3's like crazy, but outside of that, we should have been in this thing.
On to the next challenge, I 'spose.
Pakuni I am with you. How did we outplay them, yet go down 22 in first half and never get closer than 6? That's a silly thing to say to, I guess, try to feel better about what was an all-around disappointment.
Not accepting transfers is a thing of the past. We need help inside, so if a transfer becomes available, we have to consider him. This "we are family" mantra needs to go.
Uconn played great D against our guards, took them out of rhythm offensively and we got outrebounded once again We are 2nd to last in rebounding in the BEast.
It looks like St Johns is the top rebounding team in the conference and they have good guard defense. We will have our hands full at a packed MSG on Tuesday.
We'll beat them at their place.
Thankfully, they don't shoot the ball well. Going to be an ugly game.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 02, 2025, 10:52:39 AMThankfully, they don't shoot the ball well. Going to be an ugly game.
Can't be uglier than yesterday. Right?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 02, 2025, 09:56:45 AMIt would not be Kam and 4 Huskies.
Agreed. Cam would start before Stewart.
Got punched in the mouth early and got too far down to recover. Solo Ball was in sniper mode which is what really killed us. I saw some positives from this game including the amount of turnovers we forced, Kam finishing better at the rim, second half defensive effort that I'm not overly worried. The biggest concern to me is the mind-boggling FT shooting especially Kam's struggles. Then again, as I have been told...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fju-LYxXkAI637c.jpg)
They need to play desperate from the jump ball, not just after they trail at halftime.
Only 2 players made shots in the 1st half for us.
https://x.com/DalyDoseOfHoops/status/1885873719517553091?t=aL3SeKB9rjG5fgK1XSaO0w&s=19
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on February 02, 2025, 12:12:15 PMGot punched in the mouth early and got too far down to recover. Solo Ball was in sniper mode which is what really killed us. I saw some positives from this game including the amount of turnovers we forced, Kam finishing better at the rim, second half defensive effort that I'm not overly worried. The biggest concern to me is the mind-boggling FT shooting especially Kam's struggles. Then again, as I have been told...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fju-LYxXkAI637c.jpg)
Who attacked you? Ty for the synopsis.
Everyone needs to calm down a bit. Myself included.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 01, 2025, 11:01:38 PMI think two of UConn's worst 3P shooters combined to make their first 4 three pointers. I think the team started pressing after that and it took them 16 minutes to get over it.
It's weird to say, but I think we outplayed them, but they outshot us. Sometimes that's enough. Win the next two and it doesn't matter.
It was like we had a lid on the basket and all they had to do was throw it up and it went in. Forget the 3 pointers, our layups, dunks and free throws were not going either. It was just not our night. Hope we can turn it around on Tuesday and not be so tentative and uptight and have a good first half for a change. I hope they know that their better than Saturday's game.
A bad 3-point shooter swished three 3s early for UConn. (He didn't get another point, finished with 6 turnovers, and was benched in the 2H.) Meanwhile, Kam missed a layup, we couldn't make any shots at all, and we missed a bunch of FTs ... and it just kind of snowballed from there.
Our offense was just plain weird. I like to think that the game plan wasn't to go 1-on-1 on almost every possession.
They had 25 turnovers but we only had 10 fastbreak points. Most of their TOs were of the dead-ball variety, especially lots of bad passes out of bounds. Still TOs, and I imagine Hurley is still ticked off about them, but that's partly how they were able to survive them. That, and their shooting.
We played pretty inspired defense in the final minutes of the 1H and for most of the 2H. It seemed like Stevie was everywhere. Ball had a few open looks, obviously, and credit to him for hitting every damn one of them for a soul-crushing 3.
We of course need to shoot better from 3 but we were hurt even more last night by missed bunnies IMHO. Kam missed at least three shots he ALWAYS makes, Chase missed two dunks, Jop hesitated several times when he seemed to have his defender beaten, etc. And then the FT bricks - ugh.
Twice, we had defensive rebounds - 3 or 4 Warriors and 0 Huskies in the picture - and lost the ball out of bounds. Those are killers when the importance of every possession is magnified because you're trying to come back from a big deficit.
I mean, Kam makes even two of those layups, Chase flushes even one of those dunks, we make even 4 more FTs in the 1H, and we hang onto those rebounds, and who knows what the end result is?
Anyhoo ... I really had a fun 10-day trip to the Midwest, spending time with the grandkids, hanging with old MU buddies, and attending 3 games. Unfortunately, the last of those games resulted in the end of my 16-game in-person winning streak. Oh well, nothing lasts forever.
Time to go into the Garden and take down the Johnnies!
Quote from: MU82 on February 02, 2025, 12:52:48 PMA bad 3-point shooter swished three 3s early for UConn. (He didn't get another point, finished with 6 turnovers, and was benched in the 2H.) Meanwhile, Kam missed a layup, we couldn't make any shots at all, and we missed a bunch of FTs ... and it just kind of snowballed from there.
Our offense was just plain weird. I like to think that the game plan wasn't to go 1-on-1 on almost every possession.
They had 25 turnovers but we only had 10 fastbreak points. Most of their TOs were of the dead-ball variety, especially lots of bad passes out of bounds. Still TOs, and I imagine Hurley is still ticked off about them, but that's partly how they were able to survive them. That, and their shooting.
We played pretty inspired defense in the final minutes of the 1H and for most of the 2H. It seemed like Stevie was everywhere. Ball had a few open looks, obviously, and credit to him for hitting every damn one of them for a soul-crushing 3.
We of course need to shoot better from 3 but we were hurt even more last night by missed bunnies IMHO. Kam missed at least three shots he ALWAYS makes, Chase missed two dunks, Jop hesitated several times when he seemed to have his defender beaten, etc. And then the FT bricks - ugh.
Twice, we had defensive rebounds - 3 or 4 Warriors and 0 Huskies in the picture - and lost the ball out of bounds. Those are killers when the importance of every possession is magnified because you're trying to come back from a big deficit.
I mean, Kam makes even two of those layups, Chase flushes even one of those dunks, we make even 4 more FTs in the 1H, and we hang onto those rebounds, and who knows what the end result is?
Anyhoo ... I really had a fun 10-day trip to the Midwest, spending time with the grandkids, hanging with old MU buddies, and attending 3 games. Unfortunately, the last of those games resulted in the end of my 16-game in-person winning streak. Oh well, nothing lasts forever.
Time to go into the Garden and take down the Johnnies!
Kam being 3-8 from the line in tbe 1H is astonishing to me. The bottom line is at the end of the day it's about buckets and we struggled.
MU82, Shaka said that UConn brought out their extreme stay at home, no help defense. They did it last season against MU, they did it against Purdue the championship. They will switch, but they will not help. No collapsing means no open three point shooters, means that MU has to beat them one on one to make them stop.
Really good scouting. MU forced the turnovers, took 21 more shots than UConn. UConn shot the lights out when they got shots.
Quote from: MU82 on February 02, 2025, 12:52:48 PMA bad 3-point shooter swished three 3s early for UConn.
Announcers made a comment about him tying his career high for 3s in a game after the third one. I rolled my eyes and knew exactly the game he got that in. He was the guy who randomly came off the bench and was banking in threes in the big east championship last year with 10 min to go in a 2 point game.
Quote from: tower912 on February 02, 2025, 01:03:48 PMMU82, Shaka said that UConn brought out their extreme stay at home, no help defense. They did it last season against MU, they did it against Purdue the championship. They will switch, but they will not help. No collapsing means no open three point shooters, means that MU has to beat them one on one to make them stop.
Really good scouting. MU forced the turnovers, took 21 more shots than UConn. UConn shot the lights out when they got shots.
Thanks for that, tower. I hadn't heard Shaka's comments. I guess it makes sense, but it was weird to watch. The pisser is that our guys did beat the defenders 1-on-1 but missed point-blank shots. Going forward, I would be happy with just about every in-the-paint shot Kam took.
What will Shaka do, what can be done to stop these slow starts? I agree with what others have said. The deficits can be over come against lower level teams but come March these slow starts are going to be a real problem......
Quote from: Pakuni on February 02, 2025, 10:27:03 AMNo, I don't agree at all. Your assessment that Marquette outplayed UConn last night eliminates shot making from the equation. Shot making, IMO, is arguably the most important factor in determining which team played better. It's certainly one of the most, if not most, important factor in determining who wins. If last night doesn't prove that, I'm not sure what does.
Just can't buy the argument that the team that shot 20% worse overall, 32% worse from three and 24% worse from the line played better.
Again it sounds like you agree, you just don't like the word outplayed. Sub whatever word or combination is words you think better illustrates the point
It's not entirely accurate to call Stewart a "bad" 3 point shooter. He's really more of a low volume shooter. After last night he is 16 for 42 for a percentage of .381. That percentage would make him one of MU's better 3 point shooters.
Quote from: wisblue on February 02, 2025, 04:36:40 PMIt's not entirely accurate to call Stewart a "bad" 3 point shooter. He's really more of a low volume shooter. After last night he is 16 for 42 for a percentage of .381. That percentage would make him one of MU's better 3 point shooters.
And before the game he was at 33% after shooting 27% last season. Not a guy you really worry about from 3. One hot game can really bump your percentage when you've only taken 39 on the season.
If Shaka really wants to shake this...I alluded in the Restaurants thread. He needs to use Ben Gold. How many times did UConn go over the top and score with a dunk or a layup and we had no answer (or a foul was called). Ben could do that. I'm not asking for an aircraft carrier...just use your tall dude.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 02, 2025, 04:41:40 PMAnd before the game he was at 33% after shooting 27% last season. Not a guy you really worry about from 3. One hot game can really bump your percentage when you've only taken 39 on the season.
33% is still higher than Jones or Joplin this year.
Stewart also made 3 threes in the second half of the BE title game last year and 3 of 4 against DePaul on Wednesday, so MU has seen that he can make shots.
Quote from: wisblue on February 02, 2025, 04:36:40 PMIt's not entirely accurate to call Stewart a "bad" 3 point shooter. He's really more of a low volume shooter. After last night he is 16 for 42 for a percentage of .381. That percentage would make him one of MU's better 3 point shooters.
You pick your poison, and Stewart had not been a real 3-point threat in his college career.
And, as I said earlier, after he committed SIX turnovers in about 15 minutes of PT, his arse was bolted to the bench.
Now, Solo Ball, he's a shooter, and I wish he didn't get so many open looks in the second half. But even those ... the MU defense was in scramble mode.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 02, 2025, 05:50:11 PMIf Shaka really wants to shake this...I alluded in the Restaurants thread. He needs to use Ben Gold. How many times did UConn go over the top and score with a dunk or a layup and we had no answer (or a foul was called). Ben could do that. I'm not asking for an aircraft carrier...just use your tall dude.
...or guys that can jump, Chase can get up there.
I think most here are overreacting. I believe all the deficiencies we saw on Saturday can be fixed. UCONN shooting 60% is even a fluke for them. I think we have more than a decent chance to win tomorrow.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 03, 2025, 08:13:15 AMI think most here are overreacting. I believe all the deficiencies we saw on Saturday can be fixed. UCONN shooting 60% is even a fluke for them. I think we have more than a decent chance to win tomorrow.
While this thread is specifically about the UCONN game, it is the
3rd time we were down by double digits in the first half on our home court. Add in the DePaul game where a last minute over-and-back TO gave us a chance to go into OT where we blew most of a 10-point lead, and we have 4 embarrassing games. "Fixing" whatever we need to simply has not happened. Doesn't mean it will not be, but I think the evidence is that there are some very serious problems right now. I'm basing my comments on 4 games, so apologies for a bit of a derail of the thread.
So...I disagree with your overreacting comment, although the fluky 3-point shooting is spot on. I agree that we have a decent chance tomorrow, but even a win will not make the problems fade away.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 02, 2025, 12:47:36 PMIt was like we had a lid on the basket and all they had to do was throw it up and it went in. Forget the 3 pointers, our layups, dunks and free throws were not going either. It was just not our night. Hope we can turn it around on Tuesday and not be so tentative and uptight and have a good first half for a change. I hope they know that their better than Saturday's game.
This right here. "Slow starts" are not all created equally. There have been games the team has come out of the gate looking a little scripted or uninspired or whatever, but this wasn't that. They were flying around, generating TOs, getting fouls. Ball just wouldn't go in the fricking hoop and that snowballed/got in everyone's head for 10-12 minutes. IMO, Saturday looked the best I've ever seen a team look as they fall behind by 20 lol.
Quote from: Superfan on February 01, 2025, 10:43:35 PMWe got crushed (again) on the boards and our shooting was atrocious. Our ball pressure was great but we missed rotations and gave up a lot of easy baskets. BTW, where has Ben Gold been??? 20 minutes, zero points, rebounds and assists. Last game he played 26 minutes and while pulling down 7 rebounds again failed to score. We need him to step-up badly.
He did have ONE assist ;)
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 03, 2025, 09:28:33 AMWhile this thread is specifically about the UCONN game, it is the 3rd time we were down by double digits in the first half on our home court. Add in the DePaul game where a last minute over-and-back TO gave us a chance to go into OT where we blew most of a 10-point lead, and we have 4 embarrassing games. "Fixing" whatever we need to simply has not happened. Doesn't mean it will not be, but I think the evidence is that there are some very serious problems right now. I'm basing my comments on 4 games, so apologies for a bit of a derail of the thread.
So...I disagree with your overreacting comment, although the fluky 3-point shooting is spot on. I agree that we have a decent chance tomorrow, but even a win will not make the problems fade away.
Embarrassing games? I think you're proving muwarriors69 point. People are overreacting.
Duke, Auburn, and Alabama look like they're a tier above everyone else and are consistently playing as well as someone would hope to play. Tennessee and Houston look better than most of the rest, but still have taken some lopsided or weird losses. Otherwise? Everyone is losing in college basketball. There's a whole lot of parity beyond the top 3 or 5 teams in the country.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 02, 2025, 05:50:11 PMIf Shaka really wants to shake this...I alluded in the Restaurants thread. He needs to use Ben Gold. How many times did UConn go over the top and score with a dunk or a layup and we had no answer (or a foul was called). Ben could do that. I'm not asking for an aircraft carrier...just use your tall dude.
Shaka would have done that if he thought Gold was capable the other night. UConn's athletic centers were too big of a mismatch for Gold.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2025, 09:57:46 AMEmbarrassing games? I think you're proving muwarriors69 point. People are overreacting.
Duke, Auburn, and Alabama look like they're a tier above everyone else and are consistently playing as well as someone would hope to play. Tennessee and Houston look better than most of the rest, but still have taken some lopsided or weird losses. Otherwise? Everyone is losing in college basketball. There's a whole lot of parity beyond the top 3 or 5 teams in the country.
Just as we seem to disagree with what the word "few" means (I don't think 10 qualifies as a "few") we seem to disagree with what constitutes embarrassing. Just
barely surviving DePaul, being down by 13, then 19, then 22 on you home court as a top 10 team in the first half is what I call embarrassing. Let's hope that we do not top he 22-point deficit ever again at Fiserv. I think that Tennessee and Iowa State fans would call their home court losses embarrassing. At least we did not lose by 19 like ISU, so there's that, but they didn't have 4 fairly recent games like the ones I listed.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 03, 2025, 10:58:44 AMJust as we seem to disagree with what the word "few" means (I don't think 10 qualifies as a "few") we seem to disagree with what constitutes embarrassing. Just barely surviving DePaul, being down by 13, then 19, then 22 on you home court as a top 10 team in the first half is what I call embarrassing. Let's hope that we do not top he 22-point deficit ever again at Fiserv. I think that Tennessee and Iowa State fans would call their home court losses embarrassing. At least we did not lose by 19 like ISU, so there's that, but they didn't have 4 fairly recent games like the ones I listed.
I guess I just don't get "embarrassed" by my favorite college basketball team playing a bad game and losing to a decent or good team. They missed a lot of shots, they let UCONN get hot from deep, and they couldn't recover. It happens. Never thought this team was an 18-2 Big East team. Never thought they were above a few dud performances. Of course I'd love it if they never had dud performances, always played to their absolute A game. But that's not reality for 99% of college basketball teams.
Put it this way. So far only 1 of the 3 national basketball podcasts I listen to have come out with a new episode since the UCONN loss. Norlander and Parish had the game as basically a footnote, and only talked about how great Solo Ball was and how this sets up a huge week in the BE, and that UCONN might be a player come March with a fully healthy roster. They didn't even sneeze at this loss for MU. Parish moved Marquette all the way down 1 spot in his daily rankings.
If people expected a no resistance BE title, a 1 seed, and being one of the favorites to win an NCAA Title, I get the concerns. I'd say the problem was those peoples' expectations. This team is slightly better than I expected, and if you told me we'd be 18-4 overall and 9-2 in the Big East I'd be plenty happy with it.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 03, 2025, 10:58:44 AMJust as we seem to disagree with what the word "few" means (I don't think 10 qualifies as a "few") we seem to disagree with what constitutes embarrassing. Just barely surviving DePaul, being down by 13, then 19, then 22 on you home court as a top 10 team in the first half is what I call embarrassing. Let's hope that we do not top he 22-point deficit ever again at Fiserv. I think that Tennessee and Iowa State fans would call their home court losses embarrassing. At least we did not lose by 19 like ISU, so there's that, but they didn't have 4 fairly recent games like the ones I listed.
They've lost 3 of 5 and in their win in that stretch against ASU, they were down 7 at half and tied with about 6 minutes left before pulling away.
I'd say the greater point is, the season is long with ebbs and valleys.
It's how you react to the valleys. Marquette can continue to struggle or step up.
The consensus seems to be, they'll struggle.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2025, 11:04:52 AMI guess I just don't get "embarrassed" by my favorite college basketball team playing a bad game and losing to a decent or good team. They missed a lot of shots, they let UCONN get hot from deep, and they couldn't recover. It happens. Never thought this team was an 18-2 Big East team. Never thought they were above a few dud performances. Of course I'd love it if they never had dud performances, always played to their absolute A game. But that's not reality for 99% of college basketball teams.
Put it this way. So far only 1 of the 3 national basketball podcasts I listen to have come out with a new episode since the UCONN loss. Norlander and Parish had the game as basically a footnote, and only talked about how great Solo Ball was and how this sets up a huge week in the BE, and that UCONN might be a player come March with a fully healthy roster. They didn't even sneeze at this loss for MU. Parish moved Marquette all the way down 1 spot in his daily rankings.
If people expected a no resistance BE title, a 1 seed, and being one of the favorites to win an NCAA Title, I get the concerns. I'd say the problem was those peoples' expectations. This team is slightly better than I expected, and if you told me we'd be 18-4 overall and 9-2 in the Big East I'd be plenty happy with it.
Fair enough Wades. The main point of my first post in this thread is that the four games I mentioned
collectively tells me we have some problems. I do not think stating that equals not being a fan, although I know you did not say that. The specifics of the UCONN game contain a huge anomaly in 3-point shooting. How much of that could have been avoided with better defense and counterbalanced by better MU offense, we will never know.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 03, 2025, 11:08:22 AMThey've lost 3 of 5 and in their win in that stretch against ASU, they were down 7 at half and tied with about 6 minutes left before pulling away.
I'd say the greater point is, the season is long with ebbs and valleys.
It's how you react to the valleys. Marquette can continue to struggle or step up.
The consensus seems to be, they'll struggle.
Well said. I'm not sure which side of the struggle/step up I am on at the moment, but I am leaning towards step up. My heart says step up, but my head is saying somethings have to change for the better before I am all in on step up. Tomorrow night and next Saturday will tell us quite a bit. I think. That does not mean we have to win those two games, as much as I would love that.
One thing that the stats cannot measure- the deer-in-the-headlights looks. Lose 'em!
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 03, 2025, 11:24:52 AMOne thing that the stats cannot measure- the deer-in-the-headlights looks. Lose 'em!
Funny you say this... two quotes from Chase postgame:
"We gotta find a way to settle in, not let the crowd dictate how we're feeling." You mean those 18,000+ fans in your corner who are raring to go? Such adversity.
"It was just the atmosphere, with it being National Marquette Day, just feeling the energy, it was a little weird. This day's a little tricky. Just feeling the energy and vibes around, you want to perform for the crowd. Just thinking about it a little too much."
Shaka had similar comments. I can't trust this team in big games down the stretch if some pregame hype affected them this much. I mean, holy crap. Imagine spinning a hyped up home crowd as some sort of negative!
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 03, 2025, 11:54:06 AMFunny you say this... two quotes from Chase postgame:
"We gotta find a way to settle in, not let the crowd dictate how we're feeling."
You mean those 18,000+ fans in your corner who are raring to go? Such adversity.
"It was just the atmosphere, with it being National Marquette Day, just feeling the energy, it was a little weird. This day's a little tricky. Just feeling the energy and vibes around, you want to perform for the crowd. Just thinking about it a little too much."
Shaka had similar comments. I can't trust this team in big games down the stretch if some pregame hype affected them this much. I mean, holy crap. This is a veteran guy complaining about the home crowd being too hyped up!
It's human nature. I appreciate his honesty. These are 18-22 year old (or 26 if you're Creighton or Xavier) kids, not robots.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2025, 11:56:37 AMIt's human nature. I appreciate his honesty. These are 18-22 year old (or 26 if you're Creighton or Xavier) kids, not robots.
Yeah I didn't take it as Chase complaining about the crowd. I took it as we love the crowd, we need to do better, we're going to figure out how to do better.
We have played better on the road all season.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 03, 2025, 07:23:22 PMWe have played better on the road all season.
Especially in Chicago. ;D
Let's hope that we play better tomorrow at MSG. Time for the guys to take out their aggressions on someone. SJU will do just fine as our punching bag.