MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuggsyB on January 29, 2025, 09:43:39 AM

Title: ZL and Tre
Post by: MuggsyB on January 29, 2025, 09:43:39 AM
I liked what they did last night.  Both young men can attack and Zaide has had two games where his shot looks pure.  He's also a very good rebounder for a 2G.  No doubt their playmaking and consistency has to improve, but I think we're beginning to see two solid rotational players moving forward.  It's very difficult to play spot minutes because you're always concerned about missing shots or making mistakes.  What we saw yesterday could pay big dividends for MU moving forward.  Kam's 4th foul was truly a blessing in disguise.  I'm confident both guys will continue to improve and add to their arsenal. 
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: muwarrior69 on January 29, 2025, 09:51:52 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 29, 2025, 09:43:39 AMI liked what they did last night.  Both young men can attack and Zaide has had two games where his shot looks pure.  He's also a very good rebounder for a 2G.  No doubt their playmaking and consistency has to improve, but I think we're beginning to see two solid rotational players moving forward.  It's very difficult to play spot minutes because you're always concerned about missing shots or making mistakes.  What we saw yesterday could pay big dividends for MU moving forward.  Kam's 4th foul was truly a blessing in disguise.  I'm confident both guys will continue to improve and add to their arsenal. 

Amazing what an increase in NIL will do.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: wisblue on January 29, 2025, 09:58:59 AM
One thing I will say about them is that, unless Norman can change his form, Lowrey will always be a better three point shooter.

Lowrey's set shot with a nice arc looks pretty good and I'm not surprised that he can hit a decent percentage when he takes a pass and is squared up for the shot.

Norman's slingshot, on the other hand, produces a relatively flat arc and is, IMHO, doomed to a low percentage.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Zog from Margo on January 29, 2025, 10:02:38 AM
One of the more impressive plays last night was Lowery taking Telfort to the bucket and scoring over him. Norman with 5 rebounds last night and Lowery with 3 rebounds and 2 steals. Neither is afraid of contact.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 29, 2025, 10:07:28 AM
Quote from: wisblue on January 29, 2025, 09:58:59 AMOne thing I will say about them is that, unless Norman can change his form, Lowrey will always be a better three point shooter.

Lowrey's set shot with a nice arc looks pretty good and I'm not surprised that he can hit a decent percentage when he takes a pass and is squared up for the shot.

Norman's slingshot, on the other hand, produces a relatively flat arc and is, IMHO, doomed to a low percentage.

Tre does surprisingly good work inside, particularly for a guy his size; I don't think we saw that facet of his game much last year.

But yes, I agree, he is going to have to completely remake his outside shot.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on January 29, 2025, 10:13:46 AM
Just a random post here relating to Tre...thought it would be fun to share since he's a topic of discussion. I was looking for some of his high school highlights the other day to see how he found success on the offensive end and I came across this clip. A full court make off a rebound for Christopher Norman III. Never knew his name was Christopher.

Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: jesmu84 on January 29, 2025, 10:39:47 AM
Seeing both in person, up close, for the first time -

Tre is a little thicker and his on-ball offense reminds me more of Stevie - more bully ball, less explosive athleticism.

Zaide is LONG and very explosive/athletic. He got some impressive rebounds. He can be a defensive menace if he works hard.

OT - Owens is a similar mold to Zaide. He's slightly ahead offensively, but behind defensively compared to Zaide.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: JakeBarnes on January 29, 2025, 11:18:47 AM
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 29, 2025, 10:39:47 AMSeeing both in person, up close, for the first time -

Tre is a little thicker and his on-ball offense reminds me more of Stevie - more bully ball, less explosive athleticism.

Zaide is LONG and very explosive/athletic. He got some impressive rebounds. He can be a defensive menace if he works hard.

OT - Owens is a similar mold to Zaide. He's slightly ahead offensively, but behind defensively compared to Zaide.

To preface, in no way am I saying they are playing to that level, but it is clear to see that Zaide and Tre are the "next men up" for Chase and Stevie. Shaka always told Zaide that if he wanted to get on the court more, watch what Chase did and emulate it.

Feels like both took that to heart. Saw some great flashes from both, but really nice to see it out of Tre tonight. He was an aggressive scorer in HS (not unlike Stevie) and I think a few more efforts like this one will really strengthen the team this year and beyond.

Zaide looks like he's been able to take that step already (jumper is nice, had a Chase-esque steal and drive, and is a better rebounder than Chase). Would love to see him keep this up. Makes me amped about him for next year.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: SaveOD238 on January 29, 2025, 11:42:33 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 29, 2025, 09:43:39 AMKam's 4th foul was truly a blessing in disguise.

I had the same thought.  In some ways, last night was like the Creighton game last year without Tyler and Oso, where we got to see what this year's team would look like.  And I liked what I saw, at least in terms of defense and rebounding.

I just really wonder who is going to be the top scoring option next year.  There's no one obvious for that key role, unlike the last several years where we knew Tyler/Kam and then Kam/Jop were going to be the lead dogs on offense.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MU82 on January 29, 2025, 12:35:07 PM
We had very little chance of winning last night if our sophomores didn't step up.

Very proud of them for how they excelled when we desperately needed them.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 29, 2025, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2025, 12:35:07 PMWe had very little chance of winning last night if our sophomores didn't step up.

Very proud of them for how they excelled when we desperately needed them.

When Kam left the game at 13:32, if you'd have told me that Shaka would be able to leave him on the bench until 3:25 I'd have been very skeptical. It was really an outstanding effort from the rest of the team -- and especially Norman and Lowery.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 29, 2025, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 29, 2025, 12:40:07 PMWhen Kam left the game at 13:32, if you'd have told me that Shaka would be able to leave him on the bench until 3:25 I'd have been very skeptical. It was really an outstanding effort from the rest of the team -- and especially Norman and Lowery.

I liked that the dug in.  It seemed like the entire team was locked in on taking each possession one at a time (O & D).  It was like they too were thinking about how much time can we get for Kam and each min was a victory for the mission.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 29, 2025, 01:23:41 PM
Quote from: SaveOD238 on January 29, 2025, 11:42:33 AMI just really wonder who is going to be the top scoring option next year.  There's no one obvious for that key role, unlike the last several years where we knew Tyler/Kam and then Kam/Jop were going to be the lead dogs on offense.

Chase, Ben, Royce, DO, will be competing for top scoring option.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: BM1090 on January 29, 2025, 01:25:36 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 29, 2025, 01:23:41 PMChase, Ben, Royce, DO, will be competing for top scoring option.

I'd bet Zaide outscores either Royce or DO. He's going to have a green light and he's going to be on the floor a lot.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on January 29, 2025, 01:40:56 PM
Quote from: BM1090 on January 29, 2025, 01:25:36 PMI'd bet Zaide outscores either Royce or DO. He's going to have a green light and he's going to be on the floor a lot.

I'm not sure if he'll outscore either but I'm starting to think it's pretty likely he's going to start next season with the expected amount of development over the summer.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MU82 on January 29, 2025, 01:56:11 PM
Yeah, I hope I'm not setting myself up for disappointment, but I'm starting to think Zaide is gonna be a damn good player barring unforeseen health issues.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 29, 2025, 02:08:05 PM
Trust Shaka's recruiting.  Trust development. Trust the process.  I doubt Tre or Zaide become all Americans.  But I trust they can be starters next season.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: NCMUFan on January 29, 2025, 02:29:30 PM
When Tre scored on that drive on the right side, the camera showed the bench go crazy with Kam leading the cheering.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: JakeBarnes on January 29, 2025, 02:38:41 PM
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2025, 01:56:11 PMYeah, I hope I'm not setting myself up for disappointment, but I'm starting to think Zaide is gonna be a damn good player barring unforeseen health issues.

I'm still the one with receipts of "Tre is gonna be a stud pg." So I'm loving the confidence builder Tre had last night.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Newsdreams on January 29, 2025, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 29, 2025, 02:08:05 PMTrust Shaka's recruiting.  Trust development. Trust the process.  I doubt Tre or Zaide become all Americans.  But I trust they can be starters next season.
Still worried about next year
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 29, 2025, 03:12:56 PM
A bong hit will help.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MUfan12 on January 29, 2025, 03:13:39 PM
When Kam picked up his fourth, he lingered on the floor to dap up and encourage each guy before going to the bench. Loved that.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Newsdreams on January 29, 2025, 03:18:21 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 29, 2025, 03:12:56 PMA bong hit will help.
Going right now before heading to dangerous Milwaukee tomorrow
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MuggsyB on January 29, 2025, 03:58:31 PM
Here's what I'll say about both of them:   They possess very solid blow by speed and overall athleticism.  Especially with their 1st step hard right.  They are also quite strong and can laterally get the job done defensively.  Now, we mentioned their shooting and inconsistency, but I think we're seeing glimpses of them figuring it out. 

Once the rudimentary playmaking improves, as well as decision making in general, they're going to be highly productive multi-tool players imo.   And don't forget JTY will be back.  It's extremely important to remember Scoopers that zoomability isn't taught.  You either have it or you don't.  Granted, I wish we had a deadeye shooter in the pipeline sort of in the mold of a 6'6 Rowsey, but I suppose I'm thinking too far ahead.  Regardless, having these types of guards bodes well for our future once their get more comfortable with the aforementioned points (no pun intended) made here. 
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: bilsu on January 29, 2025, 04:01:05 PM
Lowery should play more than he does.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2025, 04:06:04 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 29, 2025, 03:18:21 PMGoing right now before heading to dangerous Milwaukee tomorrow

God Speed
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: wadesworld on January 29, 2025, 04:06:41 PM
Quote from: bilsu on January 29, 2025, 04:01:05 PMLowery should play more than he does.

For who?
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: wadesworld on January 29, 2025, 04:08:01 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 29, 2025, 03:58:31 PMHere's what I'll say about both of them:   They possess very solid blow by speed and overall athleticism.  Especially with their 1st step hard right.  They are also quite strong and can laterally get the job done defensively.  Now, we mentioned their shooting and inconsistency, but I reality think we're seeing glimpses of them figuring it out. 

Once the rudimentary playmaking improves, as well as decision making in general, they're going to be highly productive multi-tool players imo.   And don't forget JTY will be back.  It's extremely important to remember Scoopers that zoomability isn't taught.  You either have it or you don't.  Granted, I wish we had a deadeye shooter in the pipeline sort of in the mold of a 6'6 Rowsey, but I suppose I'm thinking too far ahead.  Regardless, having these types of guards bodes well for our future once their get more comfortable with the aforementioned points (no pun intended) made here. 

Don't diminish our diminutive humans, Muggsy.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: JakeBarnes on January 29, 2025, 04:10:14 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 29, 2025, 03:58:31 PMHere's what I'll say about both of them:   They possess very solid blow by speed and overall athleticism.  Especially with their 1st step hard right.  They are also quite strong and can laterally get the job done defensively.  Now, we mentioned their shooting and inconsistency, but I reality think we're seeing glimpses of them figuring it out. 

Once the rudimentary playmaking improves, as well as decision making in general, they're going to be highly productive multi-tool players imo.   And don't forget JTY will be back.  It's extremely important to remember Scoopers that zoomability isn't taught.  You either have it or you don't.  Granted, I wish we had a deadeye shooter in the pipeline sort of in the mold of a 6'6 Rowsey, but I suppose I'm thinking too far ahead.  Regardless, having these types of guards bodes well for our future once their get more comfortable with the aforementioned points (no pun intended) made here. 

Think you're gonna really like Ian Miletic and eventually Michael Phillips II.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 29, 2025, 04:13:34 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 29, 2025, 02:08:05 PMTrust Shaka's recruiting.  Trust development. Trust the process.  I doubt Tre or Zaide become all Americans.  But I trust they can be starters next season.

Honest question, would you have thought sophomore-year Kam would be an AA and in the talk for NPOY? I wouldn't.

The recruiting is great, but I always expected that Shaka would recruit well with Marquette's resources. But the development? The development has far exceeded my wildest expectations. O-Max, Kolek, and Oso in the NBA? Are you kidding me?! Kolek is BEPOY one year, unanimous First Team All-BE the next, and two-time AA? Oso as Second Team All-BE? The accolades Kam is all but certain to receive at the end of this year and what Stevie has become? The development is outstanding. Shaka and his staff have done exceptionally well developing players. I can't wait to see what Trey, Zaide, Royce, and Owens will become in the next couple years. Honestly, it's kind of hard to make predictions for MU from year to year because players are developing so well.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: wisblue on January 29, 2025, 04:25:00 PM
Quote from: bilsu on January 29, 2025, 04:01:05 PMLowery should play more than he does.

I trust the coaches to play the players who have earned the time.

Lowery's development and playing time this year have been slowed by his knee injury and recent illness.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MuggsyB on January 29, 2025, 05:39:43 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on January 29, 2025, 04:08:01 PMDon't diminish our diminutive humans, Muggsy.

I haven't.  Basketball unfortunately caters to larger human beings.   The fact that Muggsy played 15 years in the NBA at 5'3 is among the greatest sports accomplishments in history. 
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Newsdreams on January 29, 2025, 07:25:20 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2025, 04:06:04 PMGod Speed
Thank you my friend, will pray every day before I leave my hotel.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MU82 on January 29, 2025, 08:55:58 PM
Quote from: bilsu on January 29, 2025, 04:01:05 PMLowery should play more than he does.

Instead of whom?
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: DoctorV on January 29, 2025, 10:42:52 PM
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 29, 2025, 04:13:34 PMHonest question, would you have thought sophomore-year Kam would be an AA and in the talk for NPOY? I wouldn't.

The recruiting is great, but I always expected that Shaka would recruit well with Marquette's resources. But the development? The development has far exceeded my wildest expectations. O-Max, Kolek, and Oso in the NBA? Are you kidding me?! Kolek is BEPOY one year, unanimous First Team All-BE the next, and two-time AA? Oso as Second Team All-BE? The accolades Kam is all but certain to receive at the end of this year and what Stevie has become? The development is outstanding. Shaka and his staff have done exceptionally well developing players. I can't wait to see what Trey, Zaide, Royce, and Owens will become in the next couple years. Honestly, it's kind of hard to make predictions for MU from year to year because players are developing so well.

Not disagreeing with the development aspect, it's been elite.

However, it was very obvious fairly quickly that both Kam Jones and Tyler Kolek would be very special players at Marquette.

They both developed skills- eg Tylers outside shot, Kams passing ability- but they both came in with an elite ability.
Kam was always a bucket and Tyler always had amazing vision and incredible ability to pass the ball and read the court.

As a current day example- it wouldn't surprise anyone if Damarius became a very special all around player and an All BE type of player if he develops at Marquette. In the same token, it wouldn't surprise many if Parham is one of the teams leading scorers.
Kid has a quick trigger, and loves to hoist it up- ala Jop before he became so well rounded this season.

I'm not saying it's impossible for Tre and many of the others to develop into All BE type of players, I'm merely saying that development happens yearly, but elite special ability is often evident early on
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 29, 2025, 11:02:19 PM
Quote from: bilsu on January 29, 2025, 04:01:05 PMLowery should play more than he does.

Zaide is currently second to last of the active scholarship players in net efficiency. He's way ahead of Hamilton, slightly behind Owens, a good deal behind Tre, a huge gap between him and Royce. There's a reason his minutes have been what they have been.

All that being said, he has been on a tear in the last few games. No one has made up more ground than him as of late. The potential is definitely there and I hope he keeps on this trajectory. He's got a bright future here.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: pbiflyer on January 29, 2025, 11:19:05 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 29, 2025, 03:18:21 PMGoing right now before heading to dangerous Milwaukee tomorrow
Dude, be careful, we were walking down the street today when out of nowhere, we were accosted by a sign that proclaimed "voted best dentist in Milwaukee", obviously a very dangerous neighborhood. We were terrified.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MU82 on January 29, 2025, 11:46:08 PM
Quote from: DoctorV on January 29, 2025, 10:42:52 PMNot disagreeing with the development aspect, it's been elite.

However, it was very obvious fairly quickly that both Kam Jones and Tyler Kolek would be very special players at Marquette.

They both developed skills- eg Tylers outside shot, Kams passing ability- but they both came in with an elite ability.
Kam was always a bucket and Tyler always had amazing vision and incredible ability to pass the ball and read the court.

As a current day example- it wouldn't surprise anyone if Damarius became a very special all around player and an All BE type of player if he develops at Marquette. In the same token, it wouldn't surprise many if Parham is one of the teams leading scorers.
Kid has a quick trigger, and loves to hoist it up- ala Jop before he became so well rounded this season.

I'm not saying it's impossible for Tre and many of the others to develop into All BE type of players, I'm merely saying that development happens yearly, but elite special ability is often evident early on
Quote from: DoctorV on January 29, 2025, 10:42:52 PMNot disagreeing with the development aspect, it's been elite.

However, it was very obvious fairly quickly that both Kam Jones and Tyler Kolek would be very special players at Marquette.

They both developed skills- eg Tylers outside shot, Kams passing ability- but they both came in with an elite ability.
Kam was always a bucket and Tyler always had amazing vision and incredible ability to pass the ball and read the court.

As a current day example- it wouldn't surprise anyone if Damarius became a very special all around player and an All BE type of player if he develops at Marquette. In the same token, it wouldn't surprise many if Parham is one of the teams leading scorers.
Kid has a quick trigger, and loves to hoist it up- ala Jop before he became so well rounded this season.

I'm not saying it's impossible for Tre and many of the others to develop into All BE type of players, I'm merely saying that development happens yearly, but elite special ability is often evident early on

As a sophomore, Kolek couldn't shoot and couldn't go right. It looked like he'd have trouble scoring enough to keep defenses honest, and there were plenty who doubted he'd be "special."

You didn't mention Oso, a role player as a sophomore who barely hinted at the kind of special player he'd become.

Nor did you mention Stevie, who was considered a major offensive liability; many Scoopers begged for him to lose his starting job, and one even said he "hated" Stevie.

Hopefully, some of our younger players will work as hard as TK, Oso and Stevie did to become great Warriors.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 05:44:51 AM
I compared Kolek to Brunson after the Illinois game during his first season at MU.  As far as his shooting, he could shoot well off the catch, not off the dribble.  Predict that he would be a two time all American?  No.
Kam? We all saw flashes all along.  First, he had to learn what a good shot was, like our freshmen this season.  But it was clear the shot was there.  Then we saw the ability to finish at the basket, after catching with an angle to the basket.  There were some really sweet pick and roll action from the wing with Oso after receiving passes.  Finally, we saw last season how much he had developed when TKo went down.
  So, I predicted he and Stevie would share ballhandling responsibilities (thought Stevie might get a little more run), predicted what the starting line up would be this season a year ago, agreed with the preseason predictions that had MU in the mid-teens, and predicted 24-25 regular season wins.
I did not think in terms of Kam being an all American.  I thought he would be a different type of point guard on a pretty good team.
I look at Ben, who had zero experience playing against American bigs, or high level talent from anywhere.  2.7 seasons later, he is absolutely a Big East center.  The only thing holding him back is self belief.   
I absolutely believe in the growth part of the pillar.   The staff has done a marvelous job of that.
 

Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 30, 2025, 06:45:12 AM
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2025, 11:46:08 PMAs a sophomore, Kolek couldn't shoot and couldn't go right. It looked like he'd have trouble scoring enough to keep defenses honest, and there were plenty who doubted he'd be "special."

You didn't mention Oso, a role player as a sophomore who barely hinted at the kind of special player he'd become.

Nor did you mention Stevie, who was considered a major offensive liability; many Scoopers begged for him to lose his starting job, and one even said he "hated" Stevie.

Hopefully, some of our younger players will work as hard as TK, Oso and Stevie did to become great Warriors.

That's crazy because Stevie in high school scored over 2,000 points and was over 25/game his senior year and had been over 20/game his junior and soph years.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: The Sultan on January 30, 2025, 06:48:54 AM
There were people THIS OFFSEASON who predicted Stevie would lose his starting job. The collective basketball IQ of Scoop is often pretty low. Just remember that as you wander into the game threads.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 30, 2025, 06:55:57 AM
Quote from: The Sultan on January 30, 2025, 06:48:54 AMThere were people THIS OFFSEASON who predicted Stevie would lose his starting job. The collective basketball IQ of Scoop is often pretty low. Just remember that as you wander into the game threads.

Well, you think this year is fun and this team is good and are enjoying the season. 

And you want to talk about basketball IQ
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 07:12:06 AM
Hot takes are fun.  They make scoop go round.  If I ran things, there would be a rule that if a hot take was ultimately blown up, the poster of the original hot take would have to come back and (A) admit they were wrong and why, (B) defend it and explain why everyone else was wrong, and most importantly (C) explain their process that led to the spectacularly wrong hot take.
  For example, I thought Itejere could be productive at MU.  I was clearly wrong.  My thought process was that he was long and athletic and I thought the coaching staff could work their voodoo and he could end up another Oso. 

Having people explain why they stayed off the Tko train so long, or why they thought Parham, Hamilton, and Owens should start over Gold, Joplin, and Stevie would be educational.  It might even help us be less confrontational.  Finally, admitting you were wrong once in a while is good for the soul.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: DoctorV on January 30, 2025, 07:16:06 AM
Thing is, you'd have to actually be wrong to ever be able to admit to being wrong...

Most of us on scoop are perpetually right, amirite?
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 30, 2025, 07:30:46 AM
Quote from: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 07:12:06 AMHot takes are fun.  They make scoop go round.  If I ran things, there would be a rule that if a hot take was ultimately blown up, the poster of the original hot take would have to come back and (A) admit they were wrong and why, (B) defend it and explain why everyone else was wrong, and most importantly (C) explain their process that led to the spectacularly wrong hot take.
  For example, I thought Itejere could be productive at MU.  I was clearly wrong.  My thought process was that he was long and athletic and I thought the coaching staff could work their voodoo and he could end up another Oso. 

Having people explain why they stayed off the Tko train so long, or why they thought Parham, Hamilton, and Owens should start over Gold, Joplin, and Stevie would be educational.  It might even help us be less confrontational.  Finally, admitting you were wrong once in a while is good for the soul.

Hot takes belong in everyone's signature.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 07:38:57 AM
Quote from: DoctorV on January 30, 2025, 07:16:06 AMThing is, you'd have to actually be wrong to ever be able to admit to being wrong...

Most of us on scoop are perpetually right, amirite?
Another hot take gone horribly awry.
 ;D
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Elonsmusk on January 30, 2025, 08:54:51 AM
Been a big Zaide fan since Day 1.  Honestly thought he'd break out more than he has this season.  Was really surprised by his early season struggles. Just think his confidence was shook a bit from the early game shooting struggles - some of which were way off target - nerves?

His shot form and arc have been great since Day 1, and he clearly is a fluid athlete with quick feet.  Was great to see him take Telfort off the bounce and score on him at the bucket.  I'm expecting Zaide to continue to ascend and be a strong contributor for us down the stretch.

As for Tre, his offensive game largely will be bully ball, using his bigger frame to score at the basket.  1 more year of strength and conditioning and I think we will see more of his scoring ability at the basket on display.  He can be a + defender.  He's not really a PG so to judge him through the lens of a PG isn't fair.  The jump shot needs a lot of work - would be great if they could re-work his shot a little as they did Kolek's between sophomore and junior year to get more arc.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Jockey on January 30, 2025, 09:08:46 AM
Quote from: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 07:38:57 AMAnother hot take gone horribly awry.
 ;D

You've already admitted your wrongness. I think we can all justifiably ignore the rest of your comments.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 09:17:38 AM
Quote from: Jockey on January 30, 2025, 09:08:46 AMYou've already admitted your wrongness. I think we can all justifiably ignore the rest of your comments.
Man, I hope so.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: THRILLHO on January 30, 2025, 09:50:34 AM
Quote from: DoctorV on January 30, 2025, 07:16:06 AMThing is, you'd have to actually be wrong to ever be able to admit to being wrong...

Most of us on scoop are perpetually right, amirite?
When it comes to hot take accuracy this place is like the pleasantville men's basketball team.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 30, 2025, 09:56:22 AM
Another Scoop feature - assigning bad/hot/vocal takes as the collective opinion of the site.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: UWW2MU on January 30, 2025, 12:10:21 PM
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 29, 2025, 03:13:39 PMWhen Kam picked up his fourth, he lingered on the floor to dap up and encourage each guy before going to the bench. Loved that.

Same here.  He wasn't dejected or down or slumping his shoulders for having his 4th.  He was out there amped up, encouraging everyone and processing some slapping of fives with the team.  He kept them all fired up.  LOVED that.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: wadesworld on January 30, 2025, 12:14:01 PM
Kam was laughing on the bench during our Xavier loss, though.  Don't like that from my leader.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Zog from Margo on January 30, 2025, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on January 30, 2025, 12:14:01 PMKam was laughing on the bench during our Xavier loss, though.  Don't like that from my leader.

Self-flagellation was the appropriate response.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 30, 2025, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 07:12:06 AMHot takes are fun.  They make scoop go round.  If I ran things, there would be a rule that if a hot take was ultimately blown up, the poster of the original hot take would have to come back and (A) admit they were wrong and why, (B) defend it and explain why everyone else was wrong, and most importantly (C) explain their process that led to the spectacularly wrong hot take.
  For example, I thought Itejere could be productive at MU.  I was clearly wrong.  My thought process was that he was long and athletic and I thought the coaching staff could work their voodoo and he could end up another Oso. 

Man, was I wrong about Haanif.

People who dogged Stevie generally thought there was only one end of a basketball court.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: The Sultan on January 30, 2025, 02:35:45 PM
I once said "we need Aaron Durley."

I think that may be one of the worst takes ever here.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MUfan12 on January 30, 2025, 03:00:37 PM
I was all in on Traci Carter.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: THRILLHO on January 30, 2025, 03:11:31 PM
I once said, "Lenny is right."
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: swoopem on January 30, 2025, 03:38:53 PM
Tre reminds me of a taller Derrick Wilson

I definitely expect more from Zaide in the future than Tre. Although I think Tre will be a contributor, just not on the stat sheet
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 30, 2025, 03:42:21 PM
Quote from: swoopem on January 30, 2025, 03:38:53 PMTre reminds me of a taller Derrick Wilson

I definitely expect more from Zaide in the future than Tre. Although I think Tre will be a contributor, just not on the stat sheet

So you are saying his trophy case will be rich with EGBs -- but not points & assists....
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 30, 2025, 03:44:36 PM
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 30, 2025, 07:30:46 AMHot takes belong in everyone's signature.

Was literally just thinking this as I'm scrolling through comments. Thisd be an amazing and hilarious way to keep some accountability!
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 30, 2025, 04:08:20 PM
Kept waiting for Jamal Cain or Greg Elliot to breakout.  Wrong there.

Big Dameon Mason fan, too.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MuggsyB on January 30, 2025, 04:41:18 PM
I've made some predictions that have been spot-on and others that have been way off.  I assume everyone else is the same way.  I thought Jamal was gonna be a superstar and that Luke Fischer could be dominant. 
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: GB Warrior on January 30, 2025, 05:16:07 PM
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on January 30, 2025, 02:13:50 PMMan, was I wrong about Haanif.

People who dogged Stevie generally thought there was only one end of a basketball court.

Man I thought he could be Michael Carter-Williams (complimentary, before it became derogatory)
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on January 30, 2025, 07:00:41 PM
Really liked this from Tre Norman just now on the Marquette Basketball Hour (somewhat paraphrased):

"Most proud of the consistent belief in myself. College basketball is hard. At the end of the day I know my time is gonna come, I know what I stand for, I know what kind of player I can be and what player I am. I've always been a winning guy, a guy who is worried about winning, so I come in and do what I gotta do to help us win. At the end of the day everyone has their own image of how they think things will play out and I know as long as I put my head down I will continue to grow, I've been growing since I got here. This is not the best version of Tre Norman you will see."

Great stuff!
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Big Papi on January 30, 2025, 07:23:29 PM
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 30, 2025, 07:00:41 PMReally liked this from Tre Norman just now on the Marquette Basketball Hour (somewhat paraphrased):

"Most proud of the consistent belief in myself. College basketball is hard. At the end of the day I know my time is gonna come, I know what I stand for, I know what kind of player I can be and what player I am. I've always been a winning guy, a guy who is worried about winning, so I come in and do what I gotta do to help us win. At the end of the day everyone has their own image of how they think things will play out and I know as long as I put my head down I will continue to grow, I've been growing since I got here. This is not the best version of Tre Norman you will see."

Great stuff!

Great stuff.  I liked Shaka's comment about Sean's quickness being special.

Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 30, 2025, 07:31:38 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 30, 2025, 04:08:20 PMKept waiting for Jamal Cain or Greg Elliot to breakout.  Wrong there.

Big Dameon Mason fan, too.

You were right about Jamal he just was on the Juan Anderson timeline
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MuMark on January 30, 2025, 07:43:33 PM
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 30, 2025, 03:00:37 PMI was all in on Traci Carter.

I was really excited about Niv Berkovich...... ::)
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Jables1604 on January 30, 2025, 08:46:41 PM
I was really hoping Symir Torrence would blow up. Whiffed on that one.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: MuggsyB on January 30, 2025, 08:48:30 PM
I would think close to 85% whiffed on Cheatham. 
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: PointWarrior on January 30, 2025, 09:01:11 PM
I whiffed on they did not take Wally only to get Henry...
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 30, 2025, 09:01:24 PM
In at least one offseason thread I said that I thought Emarion Ellis was going to be a starter as a freshman
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on January 30, 2025, 10:23:26 PM
I was high on Markus Howard. He won 0 Tournament games. Botched that one.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on January 30, 2025, 10:30:01 PM
but I actually thought Koby McEwen was going to be really good. Turned into one of the more frustrating in recent memory.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Boone on January 30, 2025, 11:03:03 PM
Thought Ed Morrow would be awesome. Not quite.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Zog from Margo on January 30, 2025, 11:08:37 PM
I thought Wrightsil would be a significant contributor, but I was right that Wojo needed to be shown the door.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2025, 07:08:21 AM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 30, 2025, 04:08:20 PMKept waiting for Jamal Cain or Greg Elliot to breakout.  Wrong there.

Big Dameon Mason fan, too.

I'll have you know that I had D-Mace sign my final four shirt in New Orleans while he was walking down the street with his father.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 31, 2025, 07:09:33 AM
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2025, 07:08:21 AMI'll have you know that I had D-Mace sign my final four shirt in New Orleans while he was walking down the street with his father.

I was at Miller Park pretty hammered and ran into Tom Crean and told him to unleash Dameon and I'm pretty sure he transferred shortly after that
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 31, 2025, 07:38:04 AM
Tre was the player interview with Jen Lada last night.  Good stuff.

Also... Sean looks really good, really fast.
With Clark, Amadou, Sean, and the walkons as the scout team, sometimes Shaka has to be mindful about the scout team hurting the confidence of the bench players by beating them.

Shaka still thinks Sean is the fastest player in college basketball.

Tre loves to have Caedin as his teammate in 2 on 2 games.  When in doubt, he throws the ball to Caedin, the strongest dude on the team, who bullies his way to the basket. 
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: romey on January 31, 2025, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 07:12:06 AMHot takes are fun.  They make scoop go round.  If I ran things, there would be a rule that if a hot take was ultimately blown up, the poster of the original hot take would have to come back and (A) admit they were wrong and why, (B) defend it and explain why everyone else was wrong, and most importantly (C) explain their process that led to the spectacularly wrong hot take.
  For example, I thought Itejere could be productive at MU.  I was clearly wrong.  My thought process was that he was long and athletic and I thought the coaching staff could work their voodoo and he could end up another Oso. 

Having people explain why they stayed off the Tko train so long, or why they thought Parham, Hamilton, and Owens should start over Gold, Joplin, and Stevie would be educational.  It might even help us be less confrontational.  Finally, admitting you were wrong once in a while is good for the soul.

This is great advice in life as well. We aren't seeing that these days.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: DoctorV on January 31, 2025, 08:49:26 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2025, 07:38:04 AMTre was the player interview with Jen Lada last night.  Good stuff.

Also... Sean looks really good, really fast.
With Clark, Amadou, Sean, and the walkons as the scout team, sometimes Shaka has to be mindful about the scout team hurting the confidence of the bench players by beating them.

Shaka still thinks Sean is the fastest player in college basketball.

Tre loves to have Caedin as his teammate in 2 on 2 games.  When in doubt, he throws the ball to Caedin, the strongest dude on the team, who bullies his way to the basket. 

Makes you wonder if Caedin just looked so good and advanced in the summer because he was playing against other Marquette guys, not exactly the beefiest dudes in the world.

In the same token, Damarius seems like he would shine in a less organized setting where defense isn't valued as much and guys play a looser and more run and gun rather than half court mentality.

I don't think I'm mistaken when I say I remember most people saying Damarius was way ahead of Royce both offensively and defensively in the preseason.
He got hurt and that set him back, but I'd bet the style helped him shine quite a bit more quicker out of the game.
Royce has been the better defender
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: wadesworld on January 31, 2025, 08:51:04 PM
Quote from: DoctorV on January 31, 2025, 08:49:26 PMMakes you wonder if Caedin just looked so good and advanced in the summer because he was playing against other Marquette guys, not exactly the beefiest dudes in the world.

In the same token, Damarius seems like he would shine in a less organized setting where defense isn't valued as much and guys play a looser and more run and gun rather than half court mentality.

I don't think I'm mistaken when I say I remember most people saying Damarius was way ahead of Royce both offensively and defensively in the preseason.
He got hurt and that set him back, but I'd bet the style helped him shine quite a bit more quicker out of the game.
Royce has been the better defender

Yes. If there's anything we've seen about Marquette it's that Gold can't guard bigs and our defense is loose and relaxed. Our defense tends to make players look a lot better than they are.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: tower912 on January 31, 2025, 08:58:20 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on January 31, 2025, 08:51:04 PMYes. If there's anything we've seen about Marquette it's that Gold can't guard bigs and our defense is loose and relaxed. Our defense tends to make players look a lot better than they are.
All of this.  Shaka has said that Caedin is the biggest, strongest player on the team.  He has said he wants Caedin to play as physical in a game as he does in practice.

As to DO, pretty simple.  The hype was real.  A freshman missing most of the preseason and then struggling is almost a cliche.  Certainly predictable.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: DoctorV on January 31, 2025, 09:17:06 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2025, 08:58:20 PMAll of this.  Shaka has said that Caedin is the biggest, strongest player on the team.  He has said he wants Caedin to play as physical in a game as he does in practice.

As to DO, pretty simple.  The hype was real.  A freshman missing most of the preseason and then struggling is almost a cliche.  Certainly predictable.

Ok fine. Thing is, I didn't say that Caedin isn't the strongest player on the team or that DO isn't the real deal.

I simply said that Caedin and DO were the most hyped newcomers in the pre-season and both play much less and have an impact less than expected.

Again, it's not a slight, it's just the truth.

As a matter of fact, most everyone thought DO could start and Parham would barely play, and Royce has had a much bigger impact in year one thus far.

These things can change and are always fluid, my main point is that I can see why Caedins bully ball bigger size and impressive ball handling/passing style and DOs free flowing elite athleticism would play up in a pre-season setting with the only competition being Marquette teammates and walk-ons
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: wadesworld on January 31, 2025, 09:27:51 PM
Quote from: DoctorV on January 31, 2025, 09:17:06 PMOk fine. Thing is, I didn't say that Caedin isn't the strongest player on the team or that DO isn't the real deal.

I simply said that Caedin and DO were the most hyped newcomers in the pre-season and both play much less and have an impact less than expected.

Again, it's not a slight, it's just the truth.

As a matter of fact, most everyone thought DO could start and Parham would barely play, and Royce has had a much bigger impact in year one thus far.

These things can change and are always fluid, my main point is that I can see why Caedins bully ball bigger size and impressive ball handling/passing style and DOs free flowing elite athleticism would play up in a pre-season setting with the only competition being Marquette teammates and walk-ons

Damarius missed a good chunk of the offseason with injury. Same situation as Ben last offseason. Injuries, especially to young guys, can significantly alter the outlook of their seasons.

Shaka will mostly hype up his players. He likes them to play confidently. He'll almost certainly speak highly of some incoming freshman and Clark and Sean going into next season. The reality is, the upperclassmen are usually the guys who will lead Shaka's teams.
Title: Re: ZL and Tre
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 31, 2025, 10:36:53 PM
It's pretty clear to me that DO is incredibly talented.  Maybe the most upside of any player out there. 

Can he defend and get mins with a senior heavy team in conf play and tourney? Thats a different question. 
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