In your opinion, what do you perceive to be our team's biggest problem area currently?
In November I would've said that it's Kam's susceptibility to foul trouble, but this is something that he's improved upon significantly. Now I'd say it's the interior D - particularly our inability to defend backdoor cuts.
Let me know your thoughts, I'm simply curious as to what others want to see fixed/cleaned up most.
3 pt shooting, bench.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 18, 2025, 09:22:05 PMIn your opinion, what do you perceive to be our team's biggest problem area currently?
In November I would've said that it's Kam's susceptibility to foul trouble, but this is something that he's improved upon significantly. Now I'd say it's the interior D - particularly our inability to defend backdoor cuts.
Let me know your thoughts, I'm simply curious as to what others want to see fixed/cleaned up most.
3 point shooting. Bench was fine today.
3 point shooting. Lack of rim protection.
- Over-dependence on Kam Jones.
- No legitimate backup point guard to run the offense.
- A team that isn't as efficient or capable as we thought offensively, especially against better and longer/stronger competition.
- Difficulty finding the open man and creating open lanes in the HC offense.
- Poor and extremely inconsistent outside shooting for a team that values the 3P shot so much. The above all play into this one. I also think that Jop and Kam in particular work so hard, both on the defensive end and on the ball offensively (esp Kam on the latter) that the legs and mind aren't so fresh on the outside shot.
In years past, their main responsibility was to make 3P baskets and score. This season, they've got a lot more on their plate.
I do think the defense will be ok barring health concerns. I've said before that it's much easier to beat teams when you keep them in the 60s and low 70s, but not when you score 57. I also think the defense is much more effective when the guys are playing with confidence due to offensive success.
Gotta figure out a way to unlock the offense
We're better defensively this year but significantly worse on the offensive end. Last year we had three guys who could make plays off the dribble, this year Kam has to do it alone. Our passing in particular has taken a big drop. The question is how do we find higher percentage shots vs a set defense?
No one expects Stevie, Chase, or Jop to be CP3. Or Kolek or Oso. But their inability to see the defense on help and move the rock is absolutely killing us. Move the freaking basketball, basic fundamentals. If Kam is hard doubled attack in open space, spread the floor, and pass the ball when help comes. Instead, what is happening most often is trying to score off the dribble downhill no matter what, giving it back to Kam immediately, or taking very difficult shots in isolation.
We're way too predictable and impatient. It's okay to want to play fast but we need more motion off the ball, better spacing, and less usage from Kam. In the Purdue game he dominated without forcing anything. Moving the basketbal with far less iso crap is what must be done for starters. All of them are capable, it's basic poise and fundamental hoops. We can't simply rely on scoring from points off off turns.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 10:44:32 PMWe're better defensively this year but significantly worse on the offensive end. Last year we had three guys who could make plays off the dribble, this year Kam has to do it alone. Our passing in particular has taken a big drop. The question is how do we find higher percentage shots vs a set defense?
No one expects Stevie, Chase, or Jop to be CP3. Or Kolek or Oso. But their inability to see the defense on help and move the rock is absolutely killing us. Move the freaking basketball, basic fundamentals. If Kam is hard doubled attack in open space, spread the floor, and pass the ball when help comes. Instead, what is happening most often is trying to score off the dribble downhill no matter what, giving it back to Kam immediately, or taking very difficult shots in isolation.
We're way too predictable and impatient. It's okay to want to play fast but we need more motion off the ball, better spacing, and less usage from Kam. In the Purdue game he dominated without forcing anything. Moving the basketbal with far less iso crap is what must be done for starters. All of them are capable, it's basic poise and fundamental hoops. We can't simply rely on scoring from points off off turns.
Muggs, I agree our offense is worse this year. But we're actually slightly better than we finished last year in adjusted efficiency right now. 118.5 to 118.2.
I'd expect that number to drop below 118.2 before the end of the season though.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 18, 2025, 09:22:05 PMIn your opinion, what do you perceive to be our team's biggest problem area currently?
In November I would've said that it's Kam's susceptibility to foul trouble, but this is something that he's improved upon significantly. Now I'd say it's the interior D - particularly our inability to defend backdoor cuts.
Let me know your thoughts, I'm simply curious as to what others want to see fixed/cleaned up most.
Some of those back door cuts by Xavier seemed to involve illegal screens but yes would agree with inability to defend back door cuts is one of our areas of improvement. We are usually decent at getting in passing lanes creating turnovers and getting deflections. But in the Xavier game today deflections and turnovers created were down.
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on January 18, 2025, 11:38:24 PMSome of those back door cuts by Xavier seemed to involve illegal screens but yes would agree with inability to defend back door cuts is one of our areas of improvement. We are usually decent at getting in passing lanes creating turnovers and getting deflections. But in the Xavier game today deflections and turnovers created were down.
The defense wasn't the prob today even if we forced fewer turns.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 18, 2025, 11:03:25 PMMuggs, I agree our offense is worse this year. But we're actually slightly better than we finished last year in adjusted efficiency right now. 118.5 to 118.2.
I'd expect that number to drop below 118.2 before the end of the season though.
Someone mentioned that we take too many threes and added the stat that we're 13th in 3pt attempts but like 220th in percentage. Shaka isn't going to change his philosophy but from what I've seen we're really poor shooting the trifecta off the dribble. I'm very curious what that specific stat is. We also got to the line 7 times today. Our 2pt percentage has been abysmal in recent games as well and we generally only take lay-ups or Kam has his runner/floater. My contention is we play too fast and off of one foot too often once we are in the paint and in scoring positions. It's like a Rhino charge but weren't not Rhinos. Focus and score the basketball or draw fouls.
MU needs to have 3s come off passes from the paint. To get there, they need much more focus on attacking the rim early. And teach Gold to post-up. As of now, MU has too many 3s off perimeter passes and dribbling.
MU is getting plenty of open 3 pt looks. Make them at 35ish% and teams will have to open the paint. Teams are mostly waiting for Kam/Jop/Ross penetration and collapsing on them or really making them change their shots.
The biggest area of improvement needed is a better fanbase
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 19, 2025, 08:15:50 AMMU is getting plenty of open 3 pt looks. Make them at 35ish% and teams will have to open the paint. Teams are mostly waiting for Kam/Jop/Ross penetration and collapsing on them or really making them change their shots.
Yep. If I have one issue with Shaka it's that its hard to run a five out system if you don't have consistent outside shooting. I have no idea if this is a recruiting issue or something else, but the system seems to be doing what they want it to do, but just like the last two seasons, we are going to have stretches where we don't hit our shots.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 19, 2025, 08:42:08 AMYep. If I have one issue with Shaka it's that its hard to run a five out system if you don't have consistent outside shooting. I have no idea if this is a recruiting issue or something else, but the system seems to be doing what they want it to do, but just like the last two seasons, we are going to have stretches where we don't hit our shots.
He says he expects 3pt shooting to be volatile and inconsistent. MU is on the wrong side of volatile, hopefully gets on the right side soon.
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 19, 2025, 08:51:47 AMHe says he expects 3pt shooting to be volatile and inconsistent. MU is on the wrong side of volatile, hopefully gets on the right side soon.
Last 3 games:
35% against DePaul
37% against GTown
32 % against Creighton
Match any of those and they win. Simple game
Honestly we just need Kam to have some good old regression to the mean and I think we will be fine. Defenses are sagging and aggressively collapsing every time we have the ball. If Kam starts shooting like the 38% career shooter he is, they wont be able to do that.
Like last year, the scout on our team is currently easy on offense. Clog the lane because if they start hitting their threes we aint winning anyway.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 19, 2025, 02:38:29 PMHonestly we just need Kam to have some good old regression to the mean and I think we will be fine. Defenses are sagging and aggressively collapsing every time we have the ball. If Kam starts shooting like the 38% career shooter he is, they wont be able to do that.
Like last year, the scout on our team is currently easy on offense. Clog the lane because if they start hitting their threes we aint winning anyway.
Yep
Teams have adjusted defensively. In the last 3 games, two teams went zone and one played a collapsing man-to-man. As a result, MU has played four bad halves out of six against teams that aren't particularly strong. The consensus appears to be that no adjustments are needed because all MU needs to do is start making shots. That would certainly help. Finger crossed.
My guess, however, is that the staff is exploring adjustments that might help the team make more shots more consistently. For example, the last two games Gold has put more arc on his three. Apparently, that was at someone's suggestion.
Probably Scoop's.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on January 19, 2025, 03:42:36 PMTeams have adjusted defensively. In the last 3 games, two teams went zone and one played a collapsing man-to-man. As a result, MU has played four bad halves out of six against teams that aren't particularly strong. The consensus appears to be that no adjustments are needed because all MU needs to do is start making shots. That would certainly help. Finger crossed.
My guess, however, is that the staff is exploring adjustments that might help the team make more shots more consistently. For example, the last two games Gold has put more arc on his three. Apparently, that was at someone's suggestion.
Maybe Kam and Ben decided to switch 3pt-shooting forms with each other? I noticed that Kam's arcs seemed to be flatter than usual yesterday.
Transition. I know Shaka/the stats say that any open three is a good one, but seeing 3-on-1 situations ending in zero points because of a missed pull up three with the rebound going out of bounds feels like such a momentum killer. The "worst case" in that scenario should be ft attempts. Further, even when we attack, with the acceptation of Chase, it seems like we avoid contact to attempt a more difficult lay-up rather than just taking the contact and getting fouled.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 19, 2025, 06:33:41 PMMaybe Kam and Ben decided to switch 3pt-shooting forms with each other? I noticed that Kam's arcs seemed to be flatter than usual yesterday.
Kam seems to have changed his shoot in each of the four years.
I saw a lot of hesitation vs XU's defense. Why we would be tight is a total mystery to me. We know exactly how teams are going to play us regardless if they go zone or man to man. I also think a totally uncontested 8-12 footer is a better shot than going balls to the wall and trying to score over two bigs inside. That's a shot we need to occasionally take imo. And there's no reason to rush it at all, it's generally wide open. Plant, rise, and fire if it's there once in awhile. It might help Kam in particular. Every player in our starting 5 should be confident they can score the ball. Move the rock, execute, and play with zero hesitation. It's easier to be the hunter, I get it. But there is 0.0 reason we shouldn't be confident and get back to playing elite hoops.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 20, 2025, 03:16:14 PMI saw a lot of hesitation vs XU's defense. Why we would be tight is a total mystery to me. We know exactly how teams are going to play us regardless if they go zone or man to man. I also think a totally uncontested 8-12 footer is a better shot than going balls to the wall and trying to score over two bigs inside. That's a shot we need to occasionally take imo. And there's no reason to rush it at all, it's generally wide open. Plant, rise, and fire if it's there once in awhile. It might help Kam in particular. Every player in our starting 5 should be confident they can score the ball. Move the rock, execute, and play with zero hesitation. It's easier to be the hunter, I get it. But there is 0.0 reason we shouldn't be confident and get back to playing elite hoops.
Write a letter to Shaka
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 20, 2025, 04:35:46 PMWrite a letter to Shaka
That's what Muggsy's posts are, but rather than private letters, he magnanimously shares them with scoop to admire in awe. I have no doubt that he fantasizes that Shaka actually reads them.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 19, 2025, 02:38:29 PMHonestly we just need Kam to have some good old regression to the mean and I think we will be fine. Defenses are sagging and aggressively collapsing every time we have the ball. If Kam starts shooting like the 38% career shooter he is, they wont be able to do that.
Like last year, the scout on our team is currently easy on offense. Clog the lane because if they start hitting their threes we aint winning anyway.
Jop is shooting below his career average as well.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 18, 2025, 11:03:25 PMMuggs, I agree our offense is worse this year. But we're actually slightly better than we finished last year in adjusted efficiency right now. 118.5 to 118.2.
I'd expect that number to drop below 118.2 before the end of the season though.
DI avg is up. Our Adj OE rank is slightly down.
Actual OE is up YTD vs last season but shall fall as the conf grinds on.
TOs & OR have been positives yoy, while our eFG% has taken a dump
Need to get better in transition. Definitely need to give the ball up more, and early. Everyone just runs into the one defender back and chucks it up at the hoop wildly other than Kam, who will pass to a trailer.
Largely hitting open 3s will fix a lot of the issues with the team. Wish Kam and Jop had some of the freshman's mindset. Those young guys like to get their shots up. Kam and Jop sometimes pass up open 3s. I know they haven't been falling for them, but I'd like to see some no hesitation pulls from 3 when teams are packing the paint and short closing on them. Hopefully tonight gets Kam's confidence back from 3. Would like to see Jop hit a few.
We're turning the ball over ourselves more than we had been, which has been seemingly the only way opponents have scored the last 2 games.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 21, 2025, 08:33:52 PMNeed to get better in transition. Definitely need to give the ball up more, and early. Everyone just runs into the one defender back and chucks it up at the hoop wildly other than Kam, who will pass to a trailer.
Largely hitting open 3s will fix a lot of the issues with the team. Wish Kam and Jop had some of the freshman's mindset. Those young guys like to get their shots up. Kam and Jop sometimes pass up open 3s. I know they haven't been falling for them, but I'd like to see some no hesitation pulls from 3 when teams are packing the paint and short closing on them. Hopefully tonight gets Kam's confidence back from 3. Would like to see Jop hit a few.
We're turning the ball over ourselves more than we had been, which has been seemingly the only way opponents have scored the last 2 games.
Jop especially seems to be catching, pump faking and then driving a lot when it seems he has opportunity to take a catch and shoot 3.
Even if he wants to/has a successful pump fake, I'd like to see more of him take a quick step or two to his right/left and take the 3 rather than drive
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 21, 2025, 08:39:46 PMJop especially seems to be catching, pump faking and then driving a lot when it seems he has opportunity to take a catch and shoot 3.
Even if he wants to/has a successful pump fake, I'd like to see more of him take a quick step or two to his right/left and take the 3 rather than drive
Yup. When he's decisive, whether it's getting to the rim and just going up to finish rather than pump faking or shooting the 3 rather than hesitating, he's very good. He gets into trouble when he's got a bunch of extra movements.
I'd like to see Cadein Hamilton learn to back down the opponent's center.
Like Theo, he needs to forget that stupid dribble and go straight to the basket. Theo didn't and he wasn't anywhere near what he could be. Hope Cadein learns because he's big and strong.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 21, 2025, 08:39:46 PMJop especially seems to be catching, pump faking and then driving a lot when it seems he has opportunity to take a catch and shoot 3.
Even if he wants to/has a successful pump fake, I'd like to see more of him take a quick step or two to his right/left and take the 3 rather than drive
I've always felt like his 'wind up' is slow, so he needs more time than most shooters. I like the idea of his pump fake, but, as a spot up shooter, I'm not as confident in his right/left-then shoot ability. If he doesn't have the space for the first idea, then the pump-fake to a drive might make the most sense.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 21, 2025, 09:24:05 PMI'd like to see Cadein Hamilton learn to back down the opponent's center.
Like Theo, he needs to forget that stupid dribble and go straight to the basket. Theo didn't and he wasn't anywhere near what he could be. Hope Cadein learns because he's big and strong.
Agreed. There's obviously still a lot of time for Caedin to improve, but sadly I haven't really been impressed by him once this entire season. Hopefully he gets more stabilized down low and improves the FT shooting.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 21, 2025, 09:29:19 PMAgreed. There's obviously still a lot of time for Caedin to improve, but sadly I haven't really been impressed by him once this entire season. Hopefully he gets more stabilized down low and improves the FT shooting.
It's his first year of college basketball.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 22, 2025, 02:06:57 PMIt's his first year of college basketball.
Same for Cooper Flagg.
Just because he's a freshman doesn't mean he can't have impressive moments. Plus Caedin's a redshirt, so technically it's his second year of college basketball.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 22, 2025, 02:42:41 PMSame for Cooper Flagg.
Just because he's a freshman doesn't mean he can't have impressive moments. Plus Caedin's a redshirt, so technically it's his second year of college basketball.
A bit of a silly comparison. Hamilton was a late addition to the team last year and reclassified to do it. He dropped a bunch of weight and is probably still getting used to high level basketball. He's a freshman who wasn't serious about basketball until his Junior year of high school.
Give him some time. Remember what Oso looked like as a Freshman and a Sophomore?
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 22, 2025, 02:52:05 PMA bit of a silly comparison. Hamilton was a late addition to the team last year and reclassified to do it. He dropped a bunch of weight and is probably still getting used to high level basketball. He's a freshman who wasn't serious about basketball until his Junior year of high school.
Give him some time. Remember what Oso looked like as a Freshman and a Sophomore?
Like I said...
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 21, 2025, 09:29:19 PMAgreed. There's obviously still a lot of time for Caedin to improve, but sadly I haven't really been impressed by him once this entire season. Hopefully he gets more stabilized down low and improves the FT shooting.
If you ask me, our biggest weaknesses are:
1. Defensive rebounding
2. Offense vs zone. We need to drive and kick to get the good step-into-it threes that get converted at a high percentage, but our drivers are not much of a threat to score so teams lately are staying home on the shooters. I think we'll figure something out here.
3. Reliance on turnovers
So I think we'll make headway on number 2 over the balance of the season, but at some point we aren't going to get the turnovers and number 1 is going to bite us in the posterior in the postseason.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 22, 2025, 02:58:35 PMLike I said...
So you admit, your expectations were too high? ;D
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 22, 2025, 02:52:05 PMA bit of a silly comparison. Hamilton was a late addition to the team last year and reclassified to do it. He dropped a bunch of weight and is probably still getting used to high level basketball. He's a freshman who wasn't serious about basketball until his Junior year of high school.
Give him some time. Remember what Oso looked like as a Freshman and a Sophomore?
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 22, 2025, 02:42:41 PMSame for Cooper Flagg.
Just because he's a freshman doesn't mean he can't have impressive moments. Plus Caedin's a redshirt, so technically it's his second year of college basketball.
Agreed. Look at the flashes his freshman counterparts have shown so far. Caedin had a year practicing against some NBA talent and he really hasn't shown anything to get excited or optimistic about yet. I was hoping he would at least be a little more of a rebounder or inside guy with his size. Yes there is plenty of time, but it's always nice to see promise early on from the young guys.
Anybody who thought an unranked, lightly recruited, reclassified redshirt freshman would be anything more than what Caedin has been this year had unrealistic expectations. He was taken as a complete project. Someone you hope by their junior year is a real contributor.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 22, 2025, 03:54:21 PMAnybody who thought an unranked, lightly recruited, reclassified redshirt freshman would be anything more than what Caedin has been this year had unrealistic expectations. He was taken as a complete project. Someone you hope by their junior year is a real contributor.
Yes. You can change the names to Ben Gold and Josh Clark and make the same statement. Except, of course, Ben did not reclassify. But he was not on the radar prior to his commitment.
Shaka obviously recruited the wrong guy. Passing on Cooper for Caedin is something he'll regret all season.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 22, 2025, 03:04:03 PMSo you admit, your expectations were too high? ;D
I had exactly zero expectations for Caedin. I've only pointed out that I hope to see more from him in the future since we haven't seen anything yet.
It would be pretty dumb to have any real expectations for him since no one's actually seen him play before.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 22, 2025, 03:00:47 PMIf you ask me, our biggest weaknesses are:
1. Defensive rebounding
2. Offense vs zone. We need to drive and kick to get the good step-into-it threes that get converted at a high percentage, but our drivers are not much of a threat to score so teams lately are staying home on the shooters. I think we'll figure something out here.
3. Reliance on turnovers
So I think we'll make headway on number 2 over the balance of the season, but at some point we aren't going to get the turnovers and number 1 is going to bite us in the posterior in the postseason.
We're really not a bad defensive rebounding team. We're 165th in the nation (average, closer to good then bad). In conference play we're 6th, the exact middle, and were actually closer to being 3rd than we are to being 7th.
My biggest concern is our shooting, both inside and out. 8th in eFG% is atypical for a BEast champ. Funny enough, our best contender is 11th in that category
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 22, 2025, 02:06:57 PMIt's his first year of college basketball.
after a RS, too much to expect a little more at this point?
Quote from: Viper on January 24, 2025, 08:27:42 AMafter a RS, too much to expect a little more at this point?
Yes, for the other points I outlined.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 22, 2025, 04:30:48 PMI had exactly zero expectations for Caedin. I've only pointed out that I hope to see more from him in the future since we haven't seen anything yet.
It would be pretty dumb to have any real expectations for him since no one's actually seen him play before.
Sure, but any expectations came from the things we heard out of camp.
Before the ball was tipped we heard repeatedly about Caedin and Damarius.
Caedin was impressive and a sure-fire rotation piece and Damarius could be the next great star at Marquette.
Those things may end up being true, but it won't be this season.
Yet another lesson in taking things with a grain of salt before the ball is tipped.
Oh, and another lesson in the fact that you better defend if you plan on playing for Shaka
Maybe I'm asking for too much but given Marquette's prestige and Shaka's past success recruiting big men, I'm disappointed with the PF/C recruits so far. Keeyan, Gold, Amadou, Hamilton and Clark. Yes he has gotten some promising wing talent but it would be nice to have a true big that's more than just serviceable.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 25, 2025, 10:15:53 AMMaybe I'm asking for too much but given Marquette's prestige and Shaka's past success recruiting big men, I'm disappointed with the PF/C recruits so far. Keeyan, Gold, Amadou, Hamilton and Clark. Yes he has gotten some promising wing talent but it would be nice to have a true big that's more than just serviceable.
Yeah, Gold's 118 offensive rating, 57.8 real shooting, 38% from 3, good defense and 4.2 block % has been disappointing this year
Quote from: Markusquette on January 25, 2025, 10:15:53 AMMaybe I'm asking for too much but given Marquette's prestige and Shaka's past success recruiting big men, I'm disappointed with the PF/C recruits so far. Keeyan, Gold, Amadou, Hamilton and Clark. Yes he has gotten some promising wing talent but it would be nice to have a true big that's more than just serviceable.
You just listed 4 guys that have or are redshirting...and Ben Gold.
Ben has gotten drastically better every season. Has a chance to be a 1000 point scorer, but beyond that he's just good.
The others were recruited to make impact further into their careers.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 25, 2025, 10:15:53 AMMaybe I'm asking for too much but given Marquette's prestige and Shaka's past success recruiting big men, I'm disappointed with the PF/C recruits so far. Keeyan, Gold, Amadou, Hamilton and Clark. Yes he has gotten some promising wing talent but it would be nice to have a true big that's more than just serviceable.
Gold is more than just serviceable.
Look at Oso's development under Shaka. We'll see what those guys bring next season but I'm not worried at this point.
Gold is a disappointment? Wow. I view Ben as proof of development, as he had the least exposure to high level competition prior to arriving at MU.
As to the others, Clark hasn't played yet. How can you bust on a redshirt?
Itejere, Hamilton, Amadou? Works in progress. None played extensively on the circuits, all came to the game late. Keeyan, all the best. Hamilton, Amadou, if their ceilings end up being Barro, cool. We will have lots of long bodies to run out there, rassle with opposing bigs, get some drop offs and putbacks.
Project big = patience required.
Gold isn't Wemby or Jokic.
Ipso fatso ... disappointing.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 25, 2025, 10:15:53 AMMaybe I'm asking for too much but given Marquette's prestige and Shaka's past success recruiting big men, I'm disappointed with the PF/C recruits so far. Keeyan, Gold, Amadou, Hamilton and Clark. Yes he has gotten some promising wing talent but it would be nice to have a true big that's more than just serviceable.
Oso was awesome and Gold is very good. I trust one of Royce/Clark/Hamilton will be very good for 30 minutes/game there in 2 years after Gold graduates.
Gold brick suxs
Ben has been doing the dirty work and getting the stuffing beat out of him, but is still shooting it well in league play. He's been really playing at a high level.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 25, 2025, 12:46:29 PMBen has been doing the dirty work and getting the stuffing beat out of him, but is still shooting it well in league play. He's been really playing at a high level.
Him and Jop have become bangers and defenders in the paint
Sorber, Crowl, and Kalkbrenner agree.
Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2025, 01:49:32 PMSorber, Crowl, and Kalkbrenner agree.
But they're no Aircraft Carriers
Remember when one of the big fears was Gold being in foul trouble?
Well, Ben hasn't even had 4 fouls in a game since Nov. 19.
All while becoming a very good defensive center.
Quote from: MU82 on January 25, 2025, 07:00:40 PMRemember when one of the big fears was Gold being in foul trouble?
Well, Ben hasn't even had 4 fouls in a game since Nov. 19.
All while becoming a very good defensive center.
Yo, not a center!
Clark can't even crack the rotation. Complete bust.
If Ben improves as much between year 3 and 4 and he did last year, he'll likely be in the NBA. Slightly surprised by the continued weird perception of his game.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 26, 2025, 02:01:50 AMIf Ben improves as much between year 3 and 4 and he did last year, he'll likely be in the NBA. Slightly surprised by the continued weird perception of his game.
Are you? Cooper Flagg could be playing for Marquette and people here would tell you he isn't good enough for the NBA.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 26, 2025, 02:01:50 AMIf Ben improves as much between year 3 and 4 and he did last year, he'll likely be in the NBA. Slightly surprised by the continued weird perception of his game.
1. Lots of Eeyores on Scoop
2. Some judge everything by how many points players score
3. He doesn't make every 3, so he's a brick-shooter
4. He's not a "true" center
5. He's no Jokic!
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 26, 2025, 09:15:25 AMAre you? Cooper Flagg could be playing for Marquette and people here would tell you he isn't good enough for the NBA.
Duke Willard calls him half staff
Meh. The eeyores are currently in abeyance. That makes critical comments more noticeable. I miss them. They force you to defend a position. I like that.
Quote from: tower912 on January 26, 2025, 10:19:18 AMMeh. The eeyores are currently in abeyance. That makes critical comments more noticeable. I miss them. They force you to defend a position. I like that.
So you're saying scoop has gone a bit snowflake?
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 26, 2025, 09:58:36 AMDuke Willard calls him half staff
Only shoots 33% from 3
Flagggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggbbbbbbrick
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 26, 2025, 09:15:25 AMAre you? Cooper Flagg could be playing for Marquette and people here would tell you he isn't good enough for the NBA.
He needs another year to refine his game...to improve his draft status...he'll regret missing out on his senior year...he should be playing for the name on the jersey...
Quote from: DoctorV on January 26, 2025, 10:30:11 AMSo you're saying scoop has gone a bit snowflake?
That's passé, woke
Quote from: DoctorV on January 26, 2025, 10:30:11 AMSo you're saying scoop has gone a bit snowflake?
Nah. The snowflakes melted.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 26, 2025, 09:15:25 AMAre you? Cooper Flagg could be playing for Marquette and people here would tell you he isn't good enough for the NBA.
Slightly.
My sense is that Scoop is generally positive on our starting 5. There are very few college players that don't have gaps in their game ...NBA ready. So pointing that out isn't being overly negative.
When I hear attacks on "negative scoopers", it's a straw man.
As for having the great/great player. The Markus and Ellenson times were nice but the way they ended left a bad taste. Wojo with an exceptional player is no where near as good as the Shaka "team" of good players we have.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on January 26, 2025, 06:57:38 PMMy sense is that Scoop is generally positive on our starting 5. There are very few college players that don't have gaps in their game ...NBA ready. So pointing that out isn't being overly negative.
When I hear attacks on "negative scoopers", it's a straw man.
As for having the great/great player. The Markus and Ellenson times were nice but the way they ended left a bad taste. Wojo with an exceptional player is no where near as good as the Shaka "team" of good players we have.
You're lost...
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on January 26, 2025, 06:57:38 PMMy sense is that Scoop is generally positive on our starting 5. There are very few college players that don't have gaps in their game ...NBA ready. So pointing that out isn't being overly negative.
When I hear attacks on "negative scoopers", it's a straw man.
Your sense makes you appear to have never read Scoop.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on January 26, 2025, 06:57:38 PMMy sense is that Scoop is generally positive on our starting 5. There are very few college players that don't have gaps in their game ...NBA ready. So pointing that out isn't being overly negative.
When I hear attacks on "negative scoopers", it's a straw man.
As for having the great/great player. The Markus and Ellenson times were nice but the way they ended left a bad taste. Wojo with an exceptional player is no where near as good as the Shaka "team" of good players we have.
Shaka's players haven't had the gaudy basic stats but let's not pretend the talent isn't there.
The BE Champs from two years ago had 3 NBA players. Kam will make it 4 and there's a good chance Chase makes it 5.
Ben's good. I'm happy with his progression. He's becoming more aggressive. Oso was a Wojo recruit but of course he did improve under Shaka (it still amazes me that we never saw him take a jump shot at MU and he's in the NBA, kudos).
I listed all of the big man recruits under Shaka, not all lumped in as the same level of disappointment. Keeyan was a bust, Amadou showed nothing and had to redshirt. TBD. Hamilton redshirted and still looks lost. Hopefully Clark can be a difference maker at the rim. I guess it's crazy to have expected a guy known for recruiting big men to bring in a single higher profile guy. But before you continue to bust my balls I love this team and I enjoy every year regardless of the outcome. Nobody is expecting Jokic out of Ben Gold.
To your point, how many top big men has MU been connected to in recruiting under Shaka? Not many. And for 26, Jensen from Kaukana is it.
It appears the staff is counting on developing under the radar bigs.
Quote from: tower912 on January 27, 2025, 09:10:27 AMTo your point, how many top big men has MU been connected to in recruiting under Shaka? Not many. And for 26, Jensen from Kaukana is it.
It appears the staff is counting on developing under the radar bigs.
If we are not going to hit the portal, trying to get a legit top 100 4 star center would not be a bad thing instead of going after unranked projects - which have proven to be fruitless to this point.
Quote from: MUbiz on January 27, 2025, 09:31:09 AMIf we are not going to hit the portal, trying to get a legit top 100 4 star center would not be a bad thing instead of going after unranked projects - which have proven to be fruitless to this point.
Correct. If MU finds under-the-radar guys and they blossom, hats off to Shaka and co. Is the difference there really just location: Texas vs Milwaukee? Shaka brought in Jarrett Allen, Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba and even Jericho Sims who's an NBA player now. Who was the last dominant true big man to don blue and gold? Jim McIlvaine?
Quote from: Markusquette on January 27, 2025, 09:45:31 AMCorrect. If MU finds under-the-radar guys and they blossom, hats off to Shaka and co. Is the difference there really just location: Texas vs Milwaukee? Shaka brought in Jarrett Allen, Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba and even Jericho Sims who's an NBA player now. Who was the last dominant true big man to don blue and gold? Jim McIlvaine?
Oso Ighodaro? Lol.
Fruitless? Ben is developing nicely. Young, under the radar bigs, require patience.
As opposed to Crean, Shaka is still landing bigs.
The only bigs under Buzz were Otule and Gardner. McMorrow and Mbao don't really count.
Heldt, Fischer (Tranferred under Buzz, stuck around for Wojo) Ellenson, Theo, Jayce Johnson, Garcia, Oso were big recruits under Wojo.
Gold, Amadou, Hamilton, Clark, and Itejere in 5 years? Patience.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 27, 2025, 09:45:31 AMCorrect. If MU finds under-the-radar guys and they blossom, hats off to Shaka and co. Is the difference there really just location: Texas vs Milwaukee? Shaka brought in Jarrett Allen, Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba and even Jericho Sims who's an NBA player now.
Different offense, too. Nevada didn't join his staff until 2020. I'd say this version is much more guard/stretch big friendly than the one those dudes played in.
Physically dominant, one and done type big men also probably are looking for what the team's entire NIL budget is.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 27, 2025, 09:49:58 AMOso Ighodaro? Lol.
Definitely the best in recent memory. Shame the tournament run ended the way it did last year. Oso was pretty invisible last post-season.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 27, 2025, 10:00:27 AMDifferent offense, too. Nevada didn't join his staff until 2020. I'd say this version is much more guard/stretch big friendly than the one those dudes played in.
Physically dominant, one and done type big men also probably are looking for what the team's entire NIL budget is.
I like guys in the mold of Parham, Owens, O-Max, Joplin, etc. Big enough to rebound and play inside but still agile enough to play on the perimeter and defend multiple positions. Very common nowadays. I think the plan is right and if MU can just get a little more bulk/physicality pan out it could be the final ingredient to an even bigger run.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 27, 2025, 10:11:43 AMDefinitely the best in recent memory. Shame the tournament run ended the way it did last year. Oso was pretty invisible last post-season.
I like guys in the mold of Parham, Owens, O-Max, Joplin, etc. Big enough to rebound and play inside but still agile enough to play on the perimeter and defend multiple positions. Very common nowadays. I think the plan is right and if MU can just get a little more bulk/physicality pan out it could be the final ingredient to an even bigger run.
So, Phillips and Miletic appeal to you. Just have to be patient and let them fill out and mature.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 27, 2025, 10:11:43 AMDefinitely the best in recent memory. Shame the tournament run ended the way it did last year. Oso was pretty invisible last post-season.
I like guys in the mold of Parham, Owens, O-Max, Joplin, etc. Big enough to rebound and play inside but still agile enough to play on the perimeter and defend multiple positions. Very common nowadays. I think the plan is right and if MU can just get a little more bulk/physicality pan out it could be the final ingredient to an even bigger run.
They will have
Clark 7'1"
Gold 6'10"
Hamilton 6'9"
Amadou 6'9"
Parham 6'8"
Owens 6'8"
So the size shouldn't be a problem at all moving forward.
Quote from: tower912 on January 27, 2025, 10:16:46 AMSo, Phillips and Miletic appeal to you. Just have to be patient and let them fill out and mature.
Definitely. And that's the mold of wing Shaka seems to go after. Very excited about them both, Phillips seems to be rising the ranks as of late.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 27, 2025, 10:26:23 AMThey will have
Clark 7'1"
Gold 6'10"
Hamilton 6'9"
Amadou 6'9"
Parham 6'8"
Owens 6'8"
So the size shouldn't be a problem at all moving forward.
Size shouldn't be a problem at all. Hopefully a couple of the newcomers can fill in some meaningful minutes. Lots of talent leaving next year, but mostly the backcourt.
Quote from: MUbiz on January 27, 2025, 09:31:09 AMIf we are not going to hit the portal, trying to get a legit top 100 4 star center would not be a bad thing instead of going after unranked projects - which have proven to be fruitless to this point.
Are you not watching the games or something?
MUMark has linked in photo's of 6-9 Sheek Pearson (in recruiting thread), a 2026 player from Burroughs High School in St. Louis who took his official visit to Marquette 10 days ago. He's in 247sports recent 2026 rankings at #85 for those that care.
Shame on me for forgetting that.
Rather than further polluting the 'what are we ranked' thread, let's argue about MU'S zone offense in the room for improvement thread.
IMO, MU's scheme to beat the zone is fine. Multiple players flash to the foul line, Ben even sneaks into the short corner dump off area from time to time. What I saw against DePaul is that even when MU made the right opening move, pass to the foul line, the zone didn't move, staying home on the perimeter and leaving their big at the rim, a la Kalkbrenner in Drop coverage. That, and MU didn't do the hard work on every possession.
Last season, opponents had to respect Oso when he got the ball there, both for the rim run and the pass. So, MU has to do the right thing every possession and be willing to attack the rim if the defense stays out on the perimeter.
Standing around is never the answer.
Quote from: tower912 on January 27, 2025, 02:25:39 PMRather than further polluting the 'what are we ranked' thread, let's argue about MU'S zone offense in the room for improvement thread.
IMO, MU's scheme to beat the zone is fine. Multiple players flash to the foul line, Ben even sneaks into the short corner dump off area from time to time. What I saw against DePaul is that even when MU made the right opening move, pass to the foul line, the zone didn't move, staying home on the perimeter and leaving their big at the rim, a la Kalkbrenner in Drop coverage. That, and MU didn't do the hard work on every possession.
Last season, opponents had to respect Oso when he got the ball there, both for the rim run and the pass. So, MU has to do the right thing every possession and be willing to attack the rim if the defense stays out on the perimeter.
Standing around is never the answer.
Spot on. All I have to add after the word around is "like deer in the headlights."
Quote from: tower912 on January 27, 2025, 02:25:39 PMRather than further polluting the 'what are we ranked' thread, let's argue about MU'S zone offense in the room for improvement thread.
IMO, MU's scheme to beat the zone is fine. Multiple players flash to the foul line, Ben even sneaks into the short corner dump off area from time to time. What I saw against DePaul is that even when MU made the right opening move, pass to the foul line, the zone didn't move, staying home on the perimeter and leaving their big at the rim, a la Kalkbrenner in Drop coverage. That, and MU didn't do the hard work on every possession.
Last season, opponents had to respect Oso when he got the ball there, both for the rim run and the pass. So, MU has to do the right thing every possession and be willing to attack the rim if the defense stays out on the perimeter.
Standing around is never the answer.
Thanks, I posted in the other thread before I saw this one. Though I do think it is relevant to the rankings discussion since it puts a ceiling on our actual potential - against good coaches in March with the current scouting report we're going to see a lot of zone unless we show we can punish it.
As for tactics, I do think there is still too much standing around. Shaka's press conferences seem to emphasize mentality as much as anything -- his "no half shots" quote. I think that's great from a long term (season-long) perspective. Engrain the mentality that we are good shooters and an open 3 is a good shot even if it comes in a different context. We get decently open 3's in my estimation, but a lot of them still look like half shots to me. I also think the zone cuts off our layups and this year we don't have anything threatening in the Oso push shot range -- I wonder whether Jop or even Kam could try to do something from that spot, or if we don't consider that a good shot.
Quote from: THRILLHO on January 28, 2025, 09:23:44 AMThanks, I posted in the other thread before I saw this one. Though I do think it is relevant to the rankings discussion since it puts a ceiling on our actual potential - against good coaches in March with the current scouting report we're going to see a lot of zone unless we show we can punish it.
As for tactics, I do think there is still too much standing around. Shaka's press conferences seem to emphasize mentality as much as anything -- his "no half shots" quote. I think that's great from a long term (season-long) perspective. Engrain the mentality that we are good shooters and an open 3 is a good shot even if it comes in a different context. We get decently open 3's in my estimation, but a lot of them still look like half shots to me. I also think the zone cuts off our layups and this year we don't have anything threatening in the Oso push shot range -- I wonder whether Jop or even Kam could try to do something from that spot, or if we don't consider that a good shot.
Nobody is going to insert a zone with 1 day between games just to play against Marquette. Come Tourney time, teams will play whatever their base defense is.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 28, 2025, 10:00:06 AMNobody is going to insert a zone with 1 day between games just to play against Marquette. Come Tourney time, teams will play whatever their base defense is.
1) There is more than one day off between weekends.
2) Many good coaches and teams (like us!), ie, those likely to be alive later, already have a zone flavor that they use as a wrinkle to mix things up. If we can't do anything against it, we may get more than a taste of it.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 28, 2025, 10:00:06 AMNobody is going to insert a zone with 1 day between games just to play against Marquette. Come Tourney time, teams will play whatever their base defense is.
This is actually a really interesting point. If we win our first round game, I think what you just said might help me sleep better at night before the R32.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 28, 2025, 05:44:12 PMThis is actually a really interesting point. If we win our first round game, I think what you just said might help me sleep better at night before the R32.
I think people also just overestimate how much good teams will change what they do for one team. Yes, if teams that switch up defenses have a zone as part of their system they might go to it more than they might in most games. But bad teams that have no chances of beating you with their normal system and aren't going anywhere with their season are the teams that will throw a random zone at you on a Tuesday in the Big East (see: DePaul or Georgetown). Teams like Houston or Tennessee going into a Final Four matchup aren't going to be like, "Yeah we play tough nosed man to man defense and really get into you. But I watched the tape DePaul put out there for us and they're onto something with this one against MU." And Danny Hurley isn't coming into Milwaukee next week saying, "Well, we're a couple games back in the BE standings and they stink against a zone so let's install that for this game."
If we run into a Jim Boeheim coached team then we'll need to really make sure our zone offense is humming. I just don't see a lot of teams playing that, and I don't see teams that don't play that just installing it for one MU game.
By the way, the one possession (that I remember, anyway) where Butler went zone we ran an absolutely beautiful set. Think it was Gold setting a screen up top on the outside guy at the top of the zone for Chase, who attacked the middle of the zone, and dropped it off to Stevie in the dunker's spot for a reverse layup.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 29, 2025, 10:15:07 AMBy the way, the one possession (that I remember, anyway) where Butler went zone we ran an absolutely beautiful set. Think it was Gold setting a screen up top on the outside guy at the top of the zone for Chase, who attacked the middle of the zone, and dropped it off to Stevie in the dunker's spot for a reverse layup.
Good call. There is a reason teams don't run it all the time against us. Easy to get burned by our personnel once they settle in.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 29, 2025, 10:15:07 AMBy the way, the one possession (that I remember, anyway) where Butler went zone we ran an absolutely beautiful set. Think it was Gold setting a screen up top on the outside guy at the top of the zone for Chase, who attacked the middle of the zone, and dropped it off to Stevie in the dunker's spot for a reverse layup.
https://x.com/ryancassidycbb/status/1884636578548416726?t=jyN9zqiZEfON_Z1ACkY_6g&s=19
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 29, 2025, 10:34:01 AMhttps://x.com/ryancassidycbb/status/1884636578548416726?t=jyN9zqiZEfON_Z1ACkY_6g&s=19
Thanks, that was the play I was thinking of. Beautiful play (although if I were a Butler fan I'd probably want an illegal screen called on Ben).
Yes, without Kam or Joplin on the floor. And that was that.
Facing lots of zone at this point in the season will prepare us for when some 15-seed throws that wrinkle in March.
All of this said, this team is really good at winning.
Quote from: MarquetteVol on January 29, 2025, 11:03:53 PMAll of this said, this team is really good at winning.
The vitriol coming from members of the game thread throughout the first half was laughable. This is a second half team. Hang in there and exercise some level of equanimity.
Quote from: bradforster on January 29, 2025, 11:18:14 PMThe vitriol coming from members of the game thread throughout the first half was laughable. This is a second half team. Hang in there and exercise some level of equanimity.
Preach.
Quote from: bradforster on January 29, 2025, 11:18:14 PMThe vitriol coming from members of the game thread throughout the first half was laughable. This is a second half team. Hang in there and exercise some level of equanimity.
I rarely wade into those threads for that reason. Lots to be embarrassed about in them. I did enjoy the live chats that JayBee used to put up.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 30, 2025, 06:47:53 AMI rarely wade into those threads for that reason. Lots to be embarrassed about in them. I did enjoy the live chats that JayBee used to put up.
Bump
What happened to the game chats?
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 30, 2025, 06:47:53 AMI rarely wade into those threads for that reason. Lots to be embarrassed about in them. I did enjoy the live chats that JayBee used to put up.
Typical game thread after the opposing team goes on a run and Marquette gets behind - all players suddenly suck, and the coach can't recruit, properly call time outs, or deploy the right player combinations.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 29, 2025, 10:34:01 AMhttps://x.com/ryancassidycbb/status/1884636578548416726?t=jyN9zqiZEfON_Z1ACkY_6g&s=19
Nice! Got them out of it so fast i didnt even notice it!
Quote from: SaveOD238 on January 29, 2025, 11:45:00 AMFacing lots of zone at this point in the season will prepare us for when some 15-seed throws that wrinkle in March.
Unless a team plays zone regularly, I doubt many 15 seeds would do something like this. Zone isn't exactly an easy defense to teach if you aren't used to playing it. The concepts are oftentimes the exact opposite of man, and things like rebounding become that much more difficult.
I think most coaches are going to try to do what they do best and pray they hit shots.
And zones mess up many teams. Witness Kentucky vs Oakland. Oakland had the players to make their amorphous, shifting 1-3-1 work and stymied Kentucky and coach Cal.
Butler played zone one possession, leading to a Stevie layup. MU was ready, even with Joplin and Kam on the bench
It would be cool to see Caedin Hamilton assert himself a bit. He has had some bright spots, but just isn't quiiiite there. A nice bucket against UW, he bullied Freemantle to the basket for a bucket against Xavier, and he's a nice little change of pace or alternate look from Ben and Royce.
I think it was Jay Bilas back when MU and the Big East played on ESPN that said something to the effect of (relating to Davante Gardner)
"It is easy for a coach to tell someone to box out, but how the heck do you expect a guy to block out a player that blocks out the sun?"
I'd love for Caedin to become that force for a few minutes off the bench. I think he'll get there!
A couple of seasons away.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 30, 2025, 11:22:56 AMIt would be cool to see Caedin Hamilton assert himself a bit. He has had some bright spots, but just isn't quiiiite there. A nice bucket against UW, he bullied Freemantle to the basket for a bucket against Xavier, and he's a nice little change of pace or alternate look from Ben and Royce.
I think it was Jay Bilas back when MU and the Big East played on ESPN that said something to the effect of (relating to Davante Gardner)
"It is easy for a coach to tell someone to box out, but how the heck do you expect a guy to block out a player that blocks out the sun?"
I'd love for Caedin to become that force for a few minutes off the bench. I think he'll get there!
I would not expect that this season. Hopefully he improves, especially on the defensive end, and he can make more contributions in the future.
Quote from: tower912 on January 30, 2025, 11:30:55 AMA couple of seasons away.
You may be right on that, but even if he could come on and provide a sturdy presence for like 5-7 minutes of clean basketball it would be great.