1. Xavier was the aggressor. They were rewarded for their aggressiveness. Great hands on defense. Did not fold when they could have.
2. The senior leadership needed to start sooner.
3. MU never quit. Love that. Too little, too late.
4. Almost steals, almost great plays, that MU didn't quite close the deal on. A different game, a different result.
5. UConn and MU lose at home. Middle of the league stepped up. Kudos.
6. Mama said there'd be days like these. Better the middle of January than the middle of March.
They absolutely deserved to lose that game.
WAYYYY tooo many bench minutes.
on to the next one.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 03:21:10 PM1. Xavier was the aggressor. They were rewarded for their aggressiveness. Great hands on defense. Did not fold when they could have.
2. The senior leadership needed to start sooner.
3. MU never quit. Love that. Too little, too late.
4. Almost steals, almost great plays, that MU didn't quite close the deal on. A different game, a different result.
5. UConn and MU lose at home. Middle of the league stepped up. Kudos.
6. Mama said there'd be days like these. Better the middle of January than the middle of March.
We're playing in Dayton. If we make the tournament.
Quote from: jfp61 on January 18, 2025, 03:21:57 PMWAYYYY tooo many bench minutes.
on to the next one.
They ain't coming back without the bench minutes.
Ugly game. Got beat at our own game. Completely out of sorts for 33 minutes. Too little too late, last play basically summed up the game.
Kudos to the bench and Jop. They played well.
Are you really typing this out during the most intense moments of the game?
That was a foul that ended it. So was the one where X took out Ben on the missed Kam 3.
Either way, team played lifeless for 30 mins. Hopefully the last 10 are what the team will build on
Mama said there would be days like these.
When the team has an off day, the All-American senior needs to step up. Unfortunately, he also had an off day. Hard to win that way.
Only thing not embarrassing is they technically don't give up.
But the actual play and IQ. Unreal.
Almost erased 19 pt deficit and any sort of competence they actually win by 10
Every run undone by stupid offense. INcluding no final shot.
Marquette goes on their run when they stopped screening so much for Kam and just let him go downhill. Hopefully that will continue with that since it helped Kam get loose.
You're always gonna lose one you shouldn't. Hopefully the second half effort will carry over.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 18, 2025, 03:24:40 PMMarquette goes on their run when they stopped screening so much for Kam and just let him go downhill. Hopefully that will continue with that since it helped Kam get loose.
You're always gonna lose one you shouldn't. Hopefully the second half effort will carry over.
It won't. Pray.
Highly over-rated at this point.
With the recent struggles, smells a lot like the end of the 2018-19 season coming.
If Kam had an extra year of eligibility he might take it after his recent stretch. Laughing on the bench down double digits in an awful game. Terrible performances and handling of adversity of late.
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 18, 2025, 03:25:24 PMHighly over-rated at this point.
With the recent struggles, smells a lot like the end of the 2018-19 season coming.
We're 15-3. We're rated where we deserve to be. Conference games are hard. We'll lose more games. So will the UCONN's, Florida's, Kentucky's of the world.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 18, 2025, 03:26:36 PMIf Kam had an extra year of eligibility he might take it after his recent stretch. Laughing on the bench down double digits in an awful game. Terrible performances and handling of adversity of late.
OMG are we seriously getting on him for laughing?
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 18, 2025, 03:26:36 PMIf Kam had an extra year of eligibility he might take it after his recent stretch. Laughing on the bench down double digits in an awful game. Terrible performances and handling of adversity of late.
He'd be a fool to pass up a first round draft selection.
Quote from: jfp61 on January 18, 2025, 03:21:57 PMWAYYYY tooo many bench minutes.
on to the next one.
Starters can't play 40 minutes, man.
This is not a game where officiating should be mentioned. We dug a huge hole and were putrid for the most part offensively. Extremely upsetting.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 18, 2025, 03:27:13 PMOMG are we seriously getting on him for laughing?
Scoop after a loss. We have seen dumber, and will again.
Always good craic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 03:29:32 PMThis is not a game where officiating should be mentioned. We dug a huge hole and were putrid for the most part offensively. Extremely upsetting.
Officiating was fine. They were letting them play.
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 18, 2025, 03:25:24 PMHighly over-rated at this point.
With the recent struggles, smells a lot like the end of the 2018-19 season coming.
Not sure if sarcasm, but if not it's laughable.
Finish up Tony and Homer and off to Frankfurt. I can't board fast enough after this one.
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 18, 2025, 03:25:24 PMHighly over-rated at this point.
With the recent struggles, smells a lot like the end of the 2018-19 season coming.
🤡
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 03:22:42 PMAre you really typing this out during the most intense moments of the game?
Yes. Why do you ask?
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 18, 2025, 03:26:36 PMIf Kam had an extra year of eligibility he might take it after his recent stretch. Laughing on the bench down double digits in an awful game. Terrible performances and handling of adversity of late.
🤡 🤡
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 03:29:59 PMScoop after a loss. We have seen dumber, and will again.
Always good craic.
You're almost too non chalant and casual after the most crushing losses.MU could lose by 95 and you're not even remotely fazed or concerned. Every things always perfecly cool and copacetic no matter what. I'm jealous.. this loss is frustrating and concerning
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 03:29:32 PMThis is not a game where officiating should be mentioned. We dug a huge hole and were putrid for the most part offensively. Extremely upsetting.
Officiating can be mentioned without ignoring that we sucked.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 03:34:34 PMYou're almost too non chalant and casual after the most crushing losses.MU could lose by 95 and you're not even remotely fazed or concerned. Every things always perfecly cool and copacetic no matter what. I'm jealous.. this loss is frustrating and concerning
Why? 15-3, 6-1. Oops.
I think Kam is overspinning in the paint. I dunno if anyone else has noticed this. But he has to find his shot again. This is where I'm perplexed. Could just be the strain of creating all of the offense.
I thought Stevie more often than not had an open 3 but instead forced a lot inside.
I liked the strategy to put Kam off ball for a bit but we could only do it for 2 possessions since we have no one else who can play the point and Ross turned it over. That's a huge flaw in the roster.
We lost to a team that shot 11% from 3.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 03:39:37 PMI think Kam is overspinning in the paint. I dunno if anyone else has noticed this. But he has to find his shot again. This is where I'm perplexed. Could just be the strain of creating all of the offense.
Always spins left like crazy. Every defender knows it too
Shaka saying refs moving the inbound location with 7 seconds left messed up the play they called and practice often.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 03:39:37 PMI think Kam is overspinning in the paint. I dunno if anyone else has noticed this. But he has to find his shot again. This is where I'm perplexed. Could just be the strain of creating all of the offense.
Teams have adjusted. MU and Kam need to counter.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 03:41:52 PMTeams have adjusted. MU and Kam need to counter.
They won't
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 18, 2025, 03:41:23 PMShaka saying refs moving the inbound location with 7 seconds left messed up the play they called and practice often.
Did we not have a timeout?
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 18, 2025, 03:41:23 PMShaka saying refs moving the inbound location with 7 seconds left messed up the play they called and practice often.
I get that. They looked ready when the ball was going to be inbounded on the baseline. Less so when it was moved. No time out available to fix it.
Stevie shoots and makes the three when he had the chance and it is moot.
When does the extra year for COVID end? Xavier played 5 5th year and 2 6th years seniors. Only other player that saw game time was sophomore Swain.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 03:21:10 PM1. Xavier was the aggressor. They were rewarded for their aggressiveness. Great hands on defense. Did not fold when they could have.
2. The senior leadership needed to start sooner.
3. MU never quit. Love that. Too little, too late.
4. Almost steals, almost great plays, that MU didn't quite close the deal on. A different game, a different result.
5. UConn and MU lose at home. Middle of the league stepped up. Kudos.
6. Mama said there'd be days like these. Better the middle of January than the middle of March.
Agree with all this.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 03:29:32 PMThis is not a game where officiating should be mentioned. We dug a huge hole and were putrid for the most part offensively. Extremely upsetting.
The officiating was fine. I prefer a more physical game since we are usually the aggressor. The one call the officials missed I thought was on Ben's rebound attempt late when he was discarded which game directly after Stevie was called for a similar one and X ended up with an And 1. That was a pretty big swing.
Quote from: Norm on January 18, 2025, 03:45:15 PMWhen does the extra year for COVID end? Xavier played 5 5th year and 2 6th years seniors. Only other player that saw game time was sophomore Swain.
Freemantle was in my daughter's X class. Even she says "I hope he's finally done."
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 18, 2025, 03:25:24 PMHighly over-rated at this point.
With the recent struggles, smells a lot like the end of the 2018-19 season coming.
Outstanding.
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 18, 2025, 03:40:19 PMI thought Stevie more often than not had an open 3 but instead forced a lot inside.
I liked the strategy to put Kam off ball for a bit but we could only do it for 2 possessions since we have no one else who can play the point and Ross turned it over. That's a huge flaw in the roster.
Where Sean possibly could have made a difference. Oh well. All this will pay off at some point during Shaka's tenure. And still might this year. Keep being top ten. Get good tournament results. The right combination of players will eventually come and get MU to the promised land.
They've been playing with fire the last few games - today they got burned.
There's a definite slump lately. They need to break out of it.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 03:34:34 PMYou're almost too non chalant and casual after the most crushing losses.MU could lose by 95 and you're not even remotely fazed or concerned. Every things always perfecly cool and copacetic no matter what. I'm jealous.. this loss is frustrating and concerning
Crushing? It's a January conference game. It happens every year. Some perspective would be nice.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 03:41:52 PMTeams have adjusted. MU and Kam need to counter.
And they did.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 18, 2025, 03:52:06 PMThey've been playing with fire the last few games - today they got burned.
There's a definite slump lately. They need to break out of it.
We've got what should be a slump buster game on Tuesday, albeit on the road so who knows. Maybe the loss will refocus the team. If we struggle again, I'll be disappointed but not surprised.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 03:34:34 PMYou're almost too non chalant and casual after the most crushing losses.MU could lose by 95 and you're not even remotely fazed or concerned. Every things always perfecly cool and copacetic no matter what. I'm jealous.. this loss is frustrating and concerning
You don't have to live your life that way, you know. Enjoy the game while it's on. Move on after it's over. You have no control over it. Don't let it bother you.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 18, 2025, 03:57:50 PMWe've got what should be a slump buster game on Tuesday, albeit on the road so who knows. Maybe the loss will refocus the team. If we struggle again, I'll be disappointed but not surprised.
I actually would be kind of surprised after the last 12 minutes. The defensive effort was awesome. I'd expect to be locked in on that end especially against a team that can't score much.
There may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 04:02:10 PMThere may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
They're 6-1. That screams top 20 easily.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 18, 2025, 03:59:37 PMI actually would be kind of surprised after the last 12 minutes. The defensive effort was awesome. I'd expect to be locked in on that end especially against a team that can't score much.
Well sure if you just ignore the first 28 minutes. The team is in a funk. At this point they'll need to show it before I can believe it.
They are 6-1 in conference. Pray tell, how many 15-3, 6-1 high majors aren't top 20?
Sultan is right about the ball screens for Kam clogging things up, especially because it's almost exclusively going into a slip to the three point line instead of anything at the rim. I think Kam needs to push tempo and try to get downhill early.
But overall he's at his best when he plays free, and he hasn't in a couple weeks.
Long season. Hate losing at home, but there was only so long they could keep getting away with it.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 04:02:10 PMThere may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
🫏
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 04:02:10 PMThere may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
lol. Eeyore's back.
Sloppy + inefficient + poor shooting, yes FT included, = a loss, even when so many are wearing their tidywhities at home.
Disappointing performance after a string of barely-enough-to-win efforts recently.
Both strengths and weaknesses being exposed...
Time to right this listing ship.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 18, 2025, 03:55:04 PMCrushing? It's a January conference game. It happens every year. Some perspective would be nice.
maybe but if you want a chance at a 3 seed better be taking care of business the rest of January cause febuarary looking pretty daunting. Especially the way the team is playing.
MU didn't quit in the second half, but they didn't start in the first half. Very poor on both ends got them into a big hole. Teams have adjusted to Kam. Now MU has to counter. I think we can stop the POY talk. Good second half D. Not strong with the ball.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 18, 2025, 03:58:48 PMYou don't have to live your life that way, you know. Enjoy the game while it's on. Move on after it's over. You have no control over it. Don't let it bother you.
you're right lol. Usually takes me an hour or so to forget it
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 04:13:31 PMmaybe but if you want a chance at a 3 seed better be taking care of business the rest of January cause febuarary looking pretty daunting. Especially the way the team is playing.
February also brings opportunities for good wins.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 04:02:10 PMThere may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
Maybe but let's not forget our performance against Butler at Home last year.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 04:13:31 PMmaybe but if you want a chance at a 3 seed better be taking care of business the rest of January cause febuarary looking pretty daunting. Especially the way the team is playing.
Last year, on January 20th, they were 13-5 and 4-3 in league play. They ended up a 2-seed despite losing to UConn three times and at Creighton. They're in far better shape today than a year ago at this point
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 18, 2025, 04:16:33 PMLast year, on January 20th, they were 13-5 and 4-3 in league play. They ended up a 2-seed despite losing to UConn three times and at Creighton. They're in far better shape today than a year ago at this point
Oh, you and your facts and logic so soon after a loss.
I think I prefer the evil Rico.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 04:02:10 PMThere may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
I think there are ebbs and flows to a season. I don't look at it under a microscope. All teams struggle, including National Champions. And I am not saying we are that caliber but even the best teams struggle during the course of the year. Hell, MU plays 2 more minutes of defense like they did in the last ten they are 7-0 with an absolutely horrendous offensive display. If the offense rebounds and Kam plays like he can, this is a legit team.
I would be really surprised if this team failed to deliver at least another sweet sixteen. Too much experience, talent and heart, most importantly, to fail.
If Kam continues to struggle and Stevie, Jop, Chase and Ben fail. And the bench never develops at all, you will be right, there will be cause for concern.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 04:04:54 PMThey are 6-1 in conference. Pray tell, how many 15-3, 6-1 high majors aren't top 20?
I agree. However, and as Muggsy alluded, definitely frustrating to come out somewhat flat on home court in front of a sellout crowd...but shiit happens. Heck, UConn goes down on home court to CU. Dep wins AT Gtown. We probably drop back to 10 or so in the polls, but we've built some equity, and I still feel confident in 15-5 in-conference. Would definitely like more from the bench. Did Zaide play today? Tre hit a 3 but otherwise just so-so. Hamilton not much. Owens, Parnham. BE POY candidate Kam off his game, yet still only lose by 2. We'll get it back at SH. Guaranteeing a W.
Is wrath the answer? WTH happened to violence and an attacking mindset from the opening tip? We looked lethargic.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 04:02:10 PMThere may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
VolsScoop about to have the same meltdown
Nothing to do now but learn and bounce back. Don't let it become a streak. Resiliency test.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 18, 2025, 03:41:23 PMShaka saying refs moving the inbound location with 7 seconds left messed up the play they called and practice often.
I thought that as they moved it.
I have to admit this is as upset as I have been with an MU performance since the NC State game.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 04:26:00 PMI have to admit this is as upset as I have been with an MU performance since the NC State game.
Smoke a bowl
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 04:26:00 PMI have to admit this is as upset as I have been with an MU performance since the NC State game.
Well, yeah. There have been so few opportunities to be truly upset.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 04:16:15 PMMaybe but let's not forget our performance against Butler at Home last year.
I haven't, but I am looking at the uneven play in 6 of the 7 conference games, not just today. This year's Butler game was no gem, and the last 3 have all been performances that would produce losses against better competition.
Anyone who is honest with himself would have to admit that if he watched some other team play the way MU has against teams that won't be anywhere near the NCAA tournament, he would say that team is overrated.
We'll find out soon enough when the schedule gets tougher if this has just been a rough patch or a sign of a team that is going to have problems.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 04:26:00 PMI have to admit this is as upset as I have been with an MU performance since the NC State game.
Same just got such a weird ominous feeling from this one. I'll forget with two wins next week
Nm
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 04:13:31 PMmaybe but if you want a chance at a 3 seed better be taking care of business the rest of January cause febuarary looking pretty daunting. Especially the way the team is playing.
You think thy will continue to play this poorly on offense the rest of the year? You may be judging the team at their worst.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 18, 2025, 04:26:36 PMSmoke a bowl
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 18, 2025, 04:26:36 PMSmoke a bowl
I could go to a Michelin 2 star restaurant within walking distance but they don't open for another 9 hrs. :(
The Fiserv is a beautiful arena. Too bad I can never attend another MU game since they are 0-2 in the last two games I attended in person. Call me when the new arena is built, if I'm still alive and kicking
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 04:32:59 PMI could go to a Michelin 2 star restaurant within walking distance but they don't open for another 9 hrs. :(
SAD!
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 18, 2025, 04:31:34 PMYou think thy will continue to play this poorly on offense the rest of the year? You may be judging the team at their worst.
That never happens on scoop.
I expect to hear about internal team dissension in the next few days.
Quote from: MUEng92 on January 18, 2025, 04:33:17 PMThe Fiserv is a beautiful arena. Too bad I can never attend another MU game since they are 0-2 in the last two games I attended in person. Call me when the new arena is built, if I'm still alive and kicking
I've been so lucky.. the 2 or 3 games I go to a year have all been wins. Don't think I've attended a loss since woj
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 04:18:06 PMOh, you and your facts and logic so soon after a loss.
I think I prefer the evil Rico.
That was after the near gag job at St. John's. January swoon right on schedule
I'd blame you, but the same issues were in our last 2 games. They just couldn't come back from them today.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 03:39:37 PMI think Kam is overspinning in the paint. I dunno if anyone else has noticed this. But he has to find his shot again. This is where I'm perplexed. Could just be the strain of creating all of the offense.
Hitting wrong washing cycle button, big mistake.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 04:34:11 PMThat never happens on scoop.
I expect to hear about internal team dissension in the next few days.
Win the next game and there will be a "will we run the table" post.
Never a middle ground.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 04:02:10 PMThere may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
Have you watched the other teams? Assuming not. Because Michigan just lost to Minnesota. Tennessee is about to lose their 2nd game in 3 to Vanderbilt. Auburn just beat Georgia, a team we beat, by 2 at home. UConn lost at home today to a team we beat. Houston got their first quad 1 win today.
The only conclusion i can draw is you don't have much frame of reference.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 04:15:00 PMyou're right lol. Usually takes me an hour or so to forget it
You're good. Used to take me way longer than an hour before I realized I was torturing myself.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 18, 2025, 03:30:24 PMOfficiating was fine. They were letting them play.
I'm usually a critic of officiating. They were fine. Like you said, they let them play.
In the beginning of the game, that hurt us. We made our comeback though, because they let them play and allowed us to be aggressive.
Could easily have called a foul on the tie-up. But they consistently let them play. No complaints about officiating.
Only call I had a problem with was the one with maybe 3 mins left on Stevie when there was minimal contact on a rebound. X got an and 1 right after.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 18, 2025, 04:40:44 PMHave you watched the other teams? Assuming not. Because Michigan just lost to Minnesota. Tennessee is about to lose their 2nd game in 3 to Vanderbilt. Auburn just beat Georgia, a team we beat, by 2 at home. UConn lost at home today to a team we beat. Houston got their first quad 1 win today.
The only conclusion i can draw is you don't have much frame of reference.
WVU up 25-24 over Iowa St. at the half btw.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 18, 2025, 04:40:44 PMHave you watched the other teams? Assuming not. Because Michigan just lost to Minnesota. Tennessee is about to lose their 2nd game in 3 to Vanderbilt. Auburn just beat Georgia, a team we beat, by 2 at home. UConn lost at home today to a team we beat. Houston got their first quad 1 win today.
The only conclusion i can draw is you don't have much frame of reference.
Well said.
Gotta get a shot up at the end, would like to see Kam take control there, but I get it he's struggling a bit.
Have to say the play that summed it up for me is when the X player got the rebound whilst sitting on his ass and made a crazy good bounce pass into the lane where they scored. I shook my head and said maybe not our night.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 18, 2025, 04:46:25 PMOnly call I had a problem with was the one with maybe 3 mins left on Stevie when there was minimal contact on a rebound. X got an and 1 right after.
This coupled with no call on Ben's rebound attempt. If you call one, call the other. Don't call one, don't call the other.
Ben's looked dangerous from my angle
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on January 18, 2025, 04:49:49 PMGotta get a shot up at the end, would like to see Kam take control there, but I get it he's struggling a bit.
Have to say the play that summed it up for me is when the X player got the rebound whilst sitting on his ass and made a crazy good bounce pass into the lane where they scored. I shook my head and said maybe not our night.
Had the same thought.
Starters were 5 of 24 from three. At one point they were 3 of 21. AT HOME. Is it just accepted by Shaka that we are bricklayers and ok that problem has not been fixed, going back to last season. X packed the lane, dared us to shoot, exerted ball pressure on screens.
I would agree with those who believe we are not a top 10 team. Think more like a 13 to 16. However, I do believe we can be very very tough to beat when efficient on offense.
As Shaka said after last game, if an open 3 isn't a good shot, what is? Perhaps passing up a semi-open 3 and driving into traffic like Stevie? As long as Shaka is the coach and Nevada is his assistant, the 3s are going up.
Zooming out a bit, I'm really happy with where our season is at being 15-3 (6-1). Fortunate, we were able to pull out a handful of other games that could have gone either way. I think our season could look a lot worse right now. We aren't entitled to winning. Most fans would have just scoffed at this win anyway. It's like that one fan that told Shaka "we'll take it" after the win against Butler. He called that out in the press conference.
We are in good shape. The season is 11 weeks old and we have 8 more weeks before tournament play. Offense and defense will continue to evolve and adjust and there may be a few more reset buttons being hit along the way.
Just praying for good health in March. If we are fortunate in that regard, I love our chances for this class to go out with a bang.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 04:02:10 PMThere may be cause for concern when the people who think MU is a contender for a 1 seed are saying "there will be games like this" after almost every game.
At what point is it a case of the team flattening out due to lack of development from the bench players while teams that bring in transfers are gelling.
Anyone who has watched MU's 7 conference games and thinks they have looked like a top 20 team has lost all objectivity.
Need to hit the portal 🚨
Quote from: TVDirector on January 18, 2025, 04:06:29 PMSloppy + inefficient + poor shooting, yes FT included, = a loss, even when so many are wearing their tidywhities at home.
Disappointing performance after a string of barely-enough-to-win efforts recently.
Both strengths and weaknesses being exposed...
Time to right this listing ship.
Listing ship LOL
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 04:04:54 PMThey are 6-1 in conference. Pray tell, how many 15-3, 6-1 high majors aren't top 20?
I'm using an eye test and considering the competition. I pay very little attention to the voted polls because they look mainly at wins and losses.
Do you think that MUs performance in the conference season has been a top 20 performance? Not many high Major teams have played a schedule as weak as MU's has been.
According to KenPom MU has had the second weakest conference schedule in the Big East, which is only the 4th rated conference.
The 6-1 record is fine, but going to OT against DePaul and having virtually every game come down to the last two minutes IMHO is not a sign of the national contender that some seem to think MU is.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 04:57:18 PMAs Shaka said after last game, if an open 3 isn't a good shot, what is? Perhaps passing up a semi-open 3 and driving into traffic like Stevie? As long as Shaka is the coach and Nevada is his assistant, the 3s are going up.
Was it open? Fremantle was right there and probably blocks it. Stevie wasn't expecting it and panicked there. idk what that play was supposed to be. Refs changing the inbound position threw them off :
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 05:03:49 PMI'm using an eye test and considering the competition. I pay very little attention to the voted polls because they look mainly at wins and losses.
Do you think that MUs performance in the conference season has been a top 20 performance? Not many high Major teams have played a schedule as weak as MU's has been.
Torvik hasn't updated yet today, but since the start of conference season, Marquette is ranked way, way way down at 23.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 05:03:49 PMI'm using an eye test and considering the competition. I pay very little attention to the voted polls because they look mainly at wins and losses.
Do you think that MUs performance in the conference season has been a top 20 performance? Not many high Major teams have played a schedule as weak as MU's has been.
That's irrelevant. You play your schedule. Not looking like a top 20 team or what have you means diddly squat. Teams can go through slumps and have poor performances.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 05:03:49 PMI'm using an eye test and considering the competition. I pay very little attention to the voted polls because they look mainly at wins and losses.
Do you think that MUs performance in the conference season has been a top 20 performance? Not many high Major teams have played a schedule as weak as MU's has been.
If you don't pay attention to polls how can you judge what top 20 is? If they aren't, who should be in the top 20 who isn't? You don't know. You don't pay attention to polls.
And yes. MU is 3-0 in the Big 10, 6-1 in the Big East.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 05:03:49 PMI pay very little attention to the voted polls because they look mainly at wins and losses.
I don't pay attention to the NCAA Tournament or conference titles because they look at wins and losses.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 05:09:05 PMIf you don't pay attention to polls how can you judge what top 20 is? And yes. MU is 3-0 in the Big 10, 6-1 in the Big East.
And is tied for the second most Q1+Q2 wins in the nation.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 05:09:05 PMIf you don't pay attention to polls how can you judge what top 20 is? If they aren't, who should be in the top 20 who isn't? You don't know. You don't pay attention to polls.
And yes. MU is 3-0 in the Big 10, 6-1 in the Big East.
Blue has an eye-test top 20.
Wisblue is just venting. And possibly trolling.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 18, 2025, 04:26:36 PMSmoke a bowl
I have smoked several after the game and I'm a happy camper
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 18, 2025, 05:13:10 PMI have smoked several after the game and I'm a happy camper
Wise choice.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 18, 2025, 04:19:23 PMI think there are ebbs and flows to a season. I don't look at it under a microscope. All teams struggle, including National Champions. And I am not saying we are that caliber but even the best teams struggle during the course of the year. Hell, MU plays 2 more minutes of defense like they did in the last ten they are 7-0 with an absolutely horrendous offensive display. If the offense rebounds and Kam plays like he can, this is a legit team.
I would be really surprised if this team failed to deliver at least another sweet sixteen. Too much experience, talent and heart, most importantly, to fail.
If Kam continues to struggle and Stevie, Jop, Chase and Ben fail. And the bench never develops at all, you will be right, there will be cause for concern.
I think this is right. My hope is that they finally got the wake-up call. They were riding fat and happy and still won despite poor performances against Georgetown and DePaul. They followed those up with another game in which they weren't prepared for the battle they faced and now they take a bad loss at home. Maybe it sinks in now. They can be a good team, but that's decided looking back at how they finished the season and not by talk during the season.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 04:32:59 PMI could go to a Michelin 2 star restaurant within walking distance but they don't open for another 9 hrs. :(
LOL if a real one you would have to reserve months to a year in advance.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 05:12:52 PMWisblue is just venting. And possibly trolling.
Fair. Illinois got beat pretty good by USC at home btw. It can happen. We're going through some issues but can get back on track.
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 18, 2025, 05:21:06 PMLOL if a real one you would have to reserve months to a year in advance.
It's called sarcasm. Even though they should let me in immediately with my MU hoodie.
Kam was awful, and they still nearly won. Better days ahead
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 05:06:19 PMWas it open? Fremantle was right there and probably blocks it. Stevie wasn't expecting it and panicked there. idk what that play was supposed to be. Refs changing the inbound position threw them off :
I watched the play a few times and we were completely smothered the whole 8 seconds. Maybe a different story if Kam's pass didn't get deflected. They looked completely lost though just prior to that inbound and didn't think they'd get a good shot.
I don't know what type of magic Shaka had drawn up from the corner but that's a terrible spot to inbound the ball from typically.
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 18, 2025, 05:13:10 PMI have smoked several after the game and I'm a happy camper
I wanna believe this true and you're not some 76 year old creep watching Johnny Carson reruns :). I few ipas deep and maybe hitting the bong soon enough bro
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 18, 2025, 03:22:10 PMWe're playing in Dayton. If we make the tournament.
Odds are in our favor - can't lose twice there in one season
To me, a fascinating adjustment MU opponents have made over the last 3 games is using MU'S switches and high pressure against MU. The 5 is slipping out high, showing a high screen, Ben is coming out high to hedge and the post is cutting hard to the basket. 4-5 times in the last 3 games.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 18, 2025, 04:40:44 PMHave you watched the other teams? Assuming not. Because Michigan just lost to Minnesota. Tennessee is about to lose their 2nd game in 3 to Vanderbilt. Auburn just beat Georgia, a team we beat, by 2 at home. UConn lost at home today to a team we beat. Houston got their first quad 1 win today.
The only conclusion i can draw is you don't have much frame of reference.
I do watch them (but obviously not as closely as I watch MU games) and I do pay attention to results.
If it was just today's game that would be one thing. Losing at home to Xavier might or might not be any worse than Tennessee losing on the road to Vanderbilt or Georgia only winning by 2 at Georgia. But conference road games are often tough against teams around the top 50. They shouldn't be tough against teams as sad as DePaul.
Teams have off days. But from my frame of reference 3 straight games falling 10-15 points short of covering the spread sends more of a signal than one off day.
Maybe the cool kids will be right and MU will come out of this funk and go on to the high NCAA seed that they seem to expect. We will see.
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 18, 2025, 05:28:53 PMMaybe a different story if Kam's pass didn't get deflected.
Live by the defection, die by the deflection
Quote from: MUEng92 on January 18, 2025, 05:48:22 PMLive by the defection, die by the deflection
One thing I find semi interesting is that Shaka is stuck on that 32 deflections a game number but he has never ever mentioned how many the other team had. I would actually like to know how many deflections we get relative to the other team. If it's a such "deflection culture" and they show leaderboards and give out chicken and what not, shouldn't we at the very least know if we are even winning the deflection battle? What good is 32 deflections if the other team has 42? I don't know. Always bothered me.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 05:46:26 PMI do watch them (but obviously not as closely as I watch MU games) and I do pay attention to results.
If it was just today's game that would be one thing. Losing at home to Xavier might or might not be any worse than Tennessee losing on the road to Vanderbilt or Georgia only winning by 2 at Georgia. But conference road games are often tough against teams around the top 50. They shouldn't be tough against teams as sad as DePaul.
Teams have off days. But from my frame of reference 3 straight games falling 10-15 points short of covering the spread sends more of a signal than one off day.
Maybe the cool kids will be right and MU will come out of this funk and go on to the high NCAA seed that they seem to expect. We will see.
Tennessee hasn't covered the spread in 3 of the 4 last games and have a 30 point loss where they scored 43. Good example
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 05:46:26 PMI do watch them (but obviously not as closely as I watch MU games) and I do pay attention to results.
If it was just today's game that would be one thing. Losing at home to Xavier might or might not be any worse than Tennessee losing on the road to Vanderbilt or Georgia only winning by 2 at Georgia. But conference road games are often tough against teams around the top 50. They shouldn't be tough against teams as sad as DePaul.
Teams have off days. But from my frame of reference 3 straight games falling 10-15 points short of covering the spread sends more of a signal than one off day.
Maybe the cool kids will be right and MU will come out of this funk and go on to the high NCAA seed that they seem to expect. We will see.
We failed to cover vs Georgetown by 4. The last two games have been disappointing. We're also 3-0 in conference road games with two wins against middle of the pack BE teams.
Unless you've done this game by game for every team, it's kind of pointless.
If you're up for it, tell me 20 teams better than MU.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 05:12:52 PMWisblue is just venting. And possibly trolling.
Why would you think I am trolling?
I am exteremely disappointed that the team that was so entertaining in games against Purdue and Wisconsin has become so hard to watch.
I wish I believed that this is just a rough patch for a team that will go on to a high NCAA seed. But I've seen other teams (MU and others) that look good in December fall flat as the season rolls along.
Some us don't have an NFL team that figures to have a cakewalk in a playoff game tonight to ease the disappointment.
Lol
ISU just lost to WV
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 18, 2025, 05:58:09 PMTennessee hasn't covered the spread in 3 of the 4 last games and have a 30 point loss where they scored 43. Good example
Auburn fell 13 points short of the spread at South Carolina three games ago.
Illinois lost by 10 to USC and fell 24 points short of the spread a week ago today.
I know you're not trolling. I think that you believe you're a realist when in reality you're a pessimist.
Iowa State loses by 7. 13.5 points from covering.
The cool kids are wrong about them too.
So, upsets aplenty today.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 05:46:26 PMI do watch them (but obviously not as closely as I watch MU games) and I do pay attention to results.
If it was just today's game that would be one thing. Losing at home to Xavier might or might not be any worse than Tennessee losing on the road to Vanderbilt or Georgia only winning by 2 at Georgia. But conference road games are often tough against teams around the top 50. They shouldn't be tough against teams as sad as DePaul.
Teams have off days. But from my frame of reference 3 straight games falling 10-15 points short of covering the spread sends more of a signal than one off day.
Maybe the cool kids will be right and MU will come out of this funk and go on to the high NCAA seed that they seem to expect. We will see.
Do you think they will play this poorly the rest of the year? Do you think that they do not have the talent to compete with UConn, St John's, Creighton and Villanova? Were their wins over Maryland, Wisconsin, Purdue, and Georgia flukes?
I'm curious as to where you stand. If the answer to these questions are yes then by all means keep up the doom and gloom. If you are right you will look prescient.
I do think today will be a valuable lesson and I think offensively they learned something today to move away from ball screens if Kam is getting doubled every time, as Sultan noted.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 18, 2025, 05:58:41 PMWe failed to cover vs Georgetown by 4. The last two games have been disappointing. We're also 3-0 in conference road games with two wins against middle of the pack BE teams.
Unless you've done this game by game for every team, it's kind of pointless.
If you're up for it, tell me 20 teams better than MU.
Radford, St. Thomas, Central Michigan, Dayton, Depaul, Xavier, Georgetown, Bradley, SLU, UW, George Mason, Iowa State, NC State, 2023 Uconn, Texas A&M, Depaul again but just their bench, The Mequon Warriors, the Al McGuire center concession stands, Matt Painter, 5 inbred generations of the Ners clan
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 18, 2025, 06:05:28 PMDo you think they will play this poorly the rest of the year? Do you think that they do not have the talent to compete with UConn, St John's, Creighton and Villanova? Were their wins over Maryland, Wisconsin, Purdue, and Georgia flukes?
I'm curious as to where you stand. If the answer to these questions are yes then by all means keep up the doom and gloom. If you are right you will look prescient.
The wins you listed were not flukes.
And of course MU has the talent to compete with anyone in this conference, especially in this down year for the league.
If I thought MU would play the rest of the season as poorly as they have played the last 3 games I would expect them to finish close to .500, and I am not there.
But, unless the team can start getting some help from its bench they are going to have a difficult time in February and March. Other teams are improving and have found ways to stymie MU's offense.
Since you asked where I stand, I have not yet changed my expectation of a 15-5 conference season. But these last 3 games, and a couple of the other uneven performances in the conference, are shaking my confidence.
I always thought that talk of an 18-2 conference record and a number 1 seed was unrealistic.
If that fits your definition of doom and gloom, I guess I'm guilty.
What happened in the hand shake line post game. Freemantle had to be held back. Couple of assistance from both benches barking at each other.
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 18, 2025, 06:24:44 PMWhat happened in the hand shake line post game. Freemantle had to be held back. Couple of assistance from both benches barking at each other.
Discussion in Game Chat. No one knows for sure
Ben Gold, 13 rebounds. Unlucky 13.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 18, 2025, 04:13:31 PMmaybe but if you want a chance at a 3 seed better be taking care of business the rest of January cause febuarary looking pretty daunting. Especially the way the team is playing.
If they're playing so bad, it doesn't matter what seed they are.
Anyway, enjoy the journey. Don't worry too much about what February brings.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 05:59:25 PMWhy would you think I am trolling?
I am exteremely disappointed that the team that was so entertaining in games against Purdue and Wisconsin has become so hard to watch.
I wish I believed that this is just a rough patch for a team that will go on to a high NCAA seed. But I've seen other teams (MU and others) that look good in December fall flat as the season rolls along.
Some us don't have an NFL team that figures to have a cakewalk in a playoff game tonight to ease the disappointment.
Hilarious stuff.
Last year at this time, Marquette was 12-5 (3-3), ranked #17, and coming off of recent losses to Seaton Hall and Butler.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 18, 2025, 06:03:19 PMIowa State loses by 7. 13.5 points from covering.
The cool kids are wrong about them too.
That's a loss coming a few days after a dominating home win over Kansas.
I have said clearly that I am talking about a succession of subpar performances, not an isolated one.
And I count the Georgetown game as subpar even though MU pulled away from a tie in the last 2 minutes to win by 8 against a 13 point underdog.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 07:05:28 PMThat's a loss coming a few days after a dominating home win over Kansas.
I have said clearly that I am talking about a succession of subpar performances, not an isolated one.
And I count the Georgetown game as subpar even though MU pulled away from a tie in the last 2 minutes to win by 14 against a 13 point underdog.
Definitely one way to look at it. Hope you are not right about MU being mediocre.
Quote from: wisblue on January 18, 2025, 07:05:28 PMThat's a loss coming a few days after a dominating home win over Kansas.
I have said clearly that I am talking about a succession of subpar performances, not an isolated one.
And I count the Georgetown game as subpar even though MU pulled away from a tie in the last 2 minutes to win by 14 against a 13 point underdog.
Blue, we played like a pile of excrement on the offensive end. There is no disputing that. We've now had several bad performances and our All-American is definitely in a funk. We're not going to beat many teams in D-1 frankly with what we saw through 27 mins. That all said I believe we can get back our mojo. We continued to compete despite the dumpster fire shooting and overall ineptitude. This team is way too good, experienced, and well coached not to overcome this little rough patch. I fully expect us to bounce back.
Anybody hear anything about Chase's injury?
I sat next to somebody at the game that was telling me he sustained a serious thumb injury against DePaul.
I hadn't seen or heard that anywhere until today.
MU scored in the 50s.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2025, 07:28:12 PMBlue, we played like a pile of excrement on the offensive end. There is no disputing that. We've now had several bad performances and our All-American is definitely in a funk. We're not going to beat many teams in D-1 frankly with what we saw through 27 mins. That all said I believe we can get back our mojo. We continued to compete despite the dumpster fire shooting and overall ineptitude. This team is way too good, experienced, and well coached not to overcome this little rough patch. I fully expect us to bounce back.
Asian drugs are dangerous, stay away.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 18, 2025, 07:31:31 PMAnybody hear anything about Chase's injury?
I sat next to somebody at the game that was telling me he sustained a serious thumb injury against DePaul.
I hadn't seen or heard that anywhere until today.
He was grabbing at it a ton, especially in the first half.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 18, 2025, 07:31:31 PMAnybody hear anything about Chase's injury?
I sat next to somebody at the game that was telling me he sustained a serious thumb injury against DePaul.
I hadn't seen or heard that anywhere until today.
I don't know anything about the injury. But it was aggravated as he went up for a missed layup where no foul was called. Isn't that injury an indication that a foul happened - it couldn't have been all ball.
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 18, 2025, 07:51:33 PMAsian drugs are dangerous, stay away.
Racist, bet you supported the White out today too
Quote from: Judge Smails on January 18, 2025, 09:03:18 PMI don't know anything about the injury. But it was aggravated as he went up for a missed layup where no foul was called. Isn't that injury an indication that a foul happened - it couldn't have been all ball.
They showed him on the big screen grabbing it and someone in our row yelled "uh oh". Then someone else said he tore something in his hand or thumb against DePaul.
I was like...uhh what? Hadn't heard of read that anywhere.
Saw the play that caused him to grab it today. Never heard a word about it post DePaul.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on January 18, 2025, 09:11:13 PMRacist, bet you supported the White out today too
Won't be at FiFo until I risk my life on NMD
Quote from: wadesworld on January 18, 2025, 03:26:50 PMWe're 15-3. We're rated where we deserve to be. Conference games are hard. We'll lose more games. So will the UCONN's, Florida's, Kentucky's of the world.
Maybe. But will Creighton and St. John's?
They look like the class of league right now. Have not seen Johnnies play, but Creighton looks awesome.
MU right now is playing poorly.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 19, 2025, 05:09:52 AMMaybe. But will Creighton and St. John's?
They look like the class of league right now. Have not seen Johnnies play, but Creighton looks awesome.
MU right now is playing poorly.
St. John's looks like the class of the league right now. Have not seen them play.
::)
Quote from: tower912 on January 19, 2025, 06:59:20 AMSt. John's looks like the class of the league right now. Have not seen them play.
::)
Not to mention Marquette already beat Creighton.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 19, 2025, 05:09:52 AMMaybe. But will Creighton and St. John's?
They look like the class of league right now. Have not seen Johnnies play, but Creighton looks awesome.
MU right now is playing poorly.
Good thing we have a better record and a head to head win against Creighton.
And yes. Those two will lose more games in the regular season.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 19, 2025, 08:18:11 AMGood thing we have a better record and a head to head win against Creighton.
And yes. Those two will lose more games in the regular season.
Well, as Willie likes to say, McDermott owns Shaka
Quote from: wadesworld on January 19, 2025, 08:18:11 AMGood thing we have a better record and a head to head win against Creighton.
And yes. Those two will lose more games in the regular season.
They won't.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2025, 05:09:05 PMIf you don't pay attention to polls how can you judge what top 20 is? If they aren't, who should be in the top 20 who isn't? You don't know. You don't pay attention to polls.
And yes. MU is 3-0 in the Big 10, 6-1 in the Big East.
I pay more attention to things like the NET that consider a variety of things, including strength of schedule, metrics,, etc.,and play a significant part in NCAA seeding. The voted polls play no part.
When Big East play started, MU was rated 9 in NET. After going 6-1 in conference play their NIT has dropped to 19. IMHO that is a reflection of subpar play against lower level competition, and not just one game.
The other teams that have been mentioned in this thread as having bad games (Auburn, Iowa State, Illinois, Michigan) have not had drops like that. They are currently 1, 6, 8, and 11 despite their recent bad games.
I am declining to name 20 teams that have been playing better than MU because it wouldn't change anyone's mind that my concern about how MU has been playing is an overreaction. But, the NIT ranking has 18 candidates. Pomeroy has 14. And if you rated just performance in conference play I'm sure there would be more than that. As of today, MUs performance in the nonconference games is propping up the conference games.
Maybe MU will turn things around and win 11 of the next 12 or whatever it was they did last year after their little slump. But they're going to have to figure out a way to get more good shots (and then make more of them) than they have the last few games.
Quote from: wisblue on January 19, 2025, 09:02:13 AMI am declining to name 20 teams that have been playing better than MU because it wouldn't change anyone's mind that my concern about how MU has been playing is an overreaction.
Ahhh.....
Personally, I think people are being a bit hard on wisblue here. Now maybe it comes down to your perspective in terms of early expectations, but we haven't been playing well of late.
Since January 1, Marquette ranks as #81 in the country according to T-Rank. If that feels like cherry-picking because it leaves out the PC game, let's go back to December 17, we've been #33 since then.
Yes, we're still a clear tourney team, clearly in line for a protected seed at the moment, but this doesn't feel at all like the potential #1 seed/national title contender this team looked like a little over a month ago. Maybe it's the flu going through the team, but in the past month the Providence game was the only one where we really looked to be clicking on all cylinders.
We can still be a good team, get to a second weekend, but if you feel just as confident after the past few results as you did six weeks ago, I'd love some of the kool-aid you're drinking. We played with fire against Creighton, Georgetown, and DePaul and finally got burned by Xavier.
This is the time of the year that our 3P shooting tends to pick up. Love to see that happen. We know that Kam, Chase, and Stevie are capable of much better than we saw yesterday. Like to see that too.
Plenty of ranked teams are slipping up, I would say I'm still very bullish on that Auburn, Duke, Iowa State, Alabama group. There's a few really elite teams that are NC contenders, then a batch of 10-12 teams that are Final Four contenders. We are in that second group, and based on the last month, we're closer to the end of that group than the beginning.
The initial upside of this year was that while we were playing poorly, unlike last year (losses at SHU, v Butler) we were still winning the tough games. Now we've taken a loss in a game that frankly shouldn't have been close. There's time to turn it around, and I hope we do. But I totally get someone who looks at the last 6 weeks and thinks the first month was more the fluke than the part where people have tape on us.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 19, 2025, 09:37:48 AMThere's time to turn it around, and I hope we do. But I totally get someone who looks at the last 6 weeks and thinks the first month was more the fluke than the part where people have tape on us.
That could be the case of course. But last year was arguably worse and things ended up fine. Not that it means that the season will end similarly, but I think there is just a little too much freaking out going on. There is a lot of season left and this is a talented team with a smart, experienced coach.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 19, 2025, 09:37:48 AMPersonally, I think people are being a bit hard on wisblue here. Now maybe it comes down to your perspective in terms of early expectations, but we haven't been playing well of late.
Since January 1, Marquette ranks as #81 in the country according to T-Rank. If that feels like cherry-picking because it leaves out the PC game, let's go back to December 17, we've been #33 since then.
Yes, we're still a clear tourney team, clearly in line for a protected seed at the moment, but this doesn't feel at all like the potential #1 seed/national title contender this team looked like a little over a month ago. Maybe it's the flu going through the team, but in the past month the Providence game was the only one where we really looked to be clicking on all cylinders.
We can still be a good team, get to a second weekend, but if you feel just as confident after the past few results as you did six weeks ago, I'd love some of the kool-aid you're drinking. We played with fire against Creighton, Georgetown, and DePaul and finally got burned by Xavier.
This is the time of the year that our 3P shooting tends to pick up. Love to see that happen. We know that Kam, Chase, and Stevie are capable of much better than we saw yesterday. Like to see that too.
Plenty of ranked teams are slipping up, I would say I'm still very bullish on that Auburn, Duke, Iowa State, Alabama group. There's a few really elite teams that are NC contenders, then a batch of 10-12 teams that are Final Four contenders. We are in that second group, and based on the last month, we're closer to the end of that group than the beginning.
The initial upside of this year was that while we were playing poorly, unlike last year (losses at SHU, v Butler) we were still winning the tough games. Now we've taken a loss in a game that frankly shouldn't have been close. There's time to turn it around, and I hope we do. But I totally get someone who looks at the last 6 weeks and thinks the first month was more the fluke than the part where people have tape on us.
That's fine but when you're a constant eeyore, people tend to start to ignore and push back
I love wisblue. Has a take. Owns it.
I was an eeyore about the Lions back in October and November. Owned it.
I agree with his take. We are not playing at the same level as the non-con portion of the season. That is obvious.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 19, 2025, 09:06:11 AMAhhh.....
Would you rather that I list all of the teams that the NET has ranked higher than MU plus a few that have moved up significantly while MU has dropped?
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 18, 2025, 05:55:32 PMOne thing I find semi interesting is that Shaka is stuck on that 32 deflections a game number but he has never ever mentioned how many the other team had. I would actually like to know how many deflections we get relative to the other team. If it's a such "deflection culture" and they show leaderboards and give out chicken and what not, shouldn't we at the very least know if we are even winning the deflection battle? What good is 32 deflections if the other team has 42? I don't know. Always bothered me.
In one of the "in the huddle" shots Miller told them to get deflections. If I recall, he even mentioned the number they had or were targetting.
There is a reasonable argument to be made for Wisblue's concerns and you laid it out well. I'm chalking it up to a mid season slump. If MU keeps playing this way his concerns will be validated. The schedule getting harder in February would not be one of my concerns, however. My concern right now would be returning to their previous level of play, Kam especially. My optimism for this year is very much anchored to him being an efficient all-American. He needs help however. The bench does need to develop and contribute. The rest of the starters need to keep doing their pert as consistently as possible.
Maybe other teams are gelling and MU has reached its ceiling. I just don't think so. Lots of games left to play. They should improve over the course of this season like all the other good teams. We will see.
Quote from: wisblue on January 19, 2025, 10:29:36 AMWould you rather that I list all of the teams that the NIT has ranked higher than MU plus a few that have moved up significantly while MU has dropped?
I don't care what you do actually because I'm not gonna freak out about this.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 19, 2025, 10:31:06 AMThere is a reasonable argument to be made for Wisblue's concerns and you laid it out well. I'm chalking it up to a mid season slump. If MU keeps playing this way his concerns will be validated. The schedule getting harder in February would not be one of my concerns, however. My concern right now would be returning to their previous level of play, Kam especially. My optimism for this year is very much anchored to him being an efficient all-American. He needs help however. The bench does need to develop and contribute. The rest of the starters need to keep doing their pert as consistently as possible.
Maybe other teams are gelling and MU has reached its ceiling. I just don't think so. Lots of games left to play. They should improve over the course of this season like all the other good teams. We will see.
I think the main advantage to the current retain and develop strategy is that we have a natural advantage early in the season as we have players that have been in the system and played together for multiple years. Teams that bring in a lot of transfers will likely get much better over the course of the season. I don't know that we will...maybe so, but I think our ceiling is higher relative to other teams earlier in the season than later.
I probably lean more toward wisblue opinion vs others.
That said, responses to his posts (which were seemingly logical/rational) vs responses to brew (despite having similar viewpoints) is interesting.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 19, 2025, 10:38:44 AMI think the main advantage to the current retain and develop strategy is that we have a natural advantage early in the season as we have players that have been in the system and played together for multiple years. Teams that bring in a lot of transfers will likely get much better over the course of the season. I don't know that we will...maybe so, but I think our ceiling is higher relative to other teams earlier in the season than later.
Marquette under Shaka hasn't gotten better as the season has gone along is an interesting take
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 19, 2025, 10:51:50 AMMarquette under Shaka hasn't gotten better as the season has gone along is an interesting take
Not what I meant. Do we get better to the degree that transfer-laden teams do? Will we this season? These are open questions and just a cursory look at our KenPom numbers seems to overwhelmingly point to the fact that we have not.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 19, 2025, 11:15:30 AMNot what I meant. Do we get better to the degree that transfer-laden teams do? Will we this season? These are open questions and just a cursory look at our KenPom numbers seems to overwhelmingly point to the fact that we have not.
Marquette was 76 entering the 22-23 season. 11 to 13 last year, 19 on January 15. This year started at 22 and are 15
Quote from: wisblue on January 19, 2025, 10:29:36 AMWould you rather that I list all of the teams that the NIT has ranked higher than MU plus a few that have moved up significantly while MU has dropped?
Is NIT rank different than the NET rank?
ATL MU, I think you are getting g at the notion that MU'S continuity was a benefit earlier in the year, as other teams lacked it. Now, after half the season, it is less of an advantage as other teams are coming together.
Fair.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 19, 2025, 10:38:44 AMI think the main advantage to the current retain and develop strategy is that we have a natural advantage early in the season as we have players that have been in the system and played together for multiple years. Teams that bring in a lot of transfers will likely get much better over the course of the season. I don't know that we will...maybe so, but I think our ceiling is higher relative to other teams earlier in the season than later.
I'm on agreement on this. Other teams are starting to gel. Last years team had a rough stretch too but figured it out to end the season. Hopefully this years team does too.
Kam getting on track I think is the biggest thing. It is unfortunate that pg options besides him are virtually nil as I think that could take some pressure off. I think the staff was banking on Norman development and/or Sean jones return, neither of which has happened. Knowing what we know now, a serviceable pg from the portal would have been helpful
Quote from: tower912 on January 19, 2025, 11:44:51 AMATL MU, I think you are getting g at the notion that MU'S continuity was a benefit earlier in the year, as other teams lacked it. Now, after half the season, it is less of an advantage as other teams are coming together.
Fair.
That's the way I read it.
What surprised me in the past 3 games, DePaul and Xavier more so than Georgetown, was what I thought was a lack of confidence, of being rattled and then making poor decisions. Note that this is an
entirely subjective comment. Xavier's performance accounted for the lion's share of our problems yesterday, but I think the self-inflicted problems and errors were well above average. We had "nervous Nellies" on the court sometimes.
Quote from: warriors141 on January 19, 2025, 12:33:29 PMI'm on agreement on this. Other teams are starting to gel. Last years team had a rough stretch too but figured it out to end the season. Hopefully this years team does too.
Kam getting on track I think is the biggest thing. It is unfortunate that pg options besides him are virtually nil as I think that could take some pressure off. I think the staff was banking on Norman development and/or Sean jones return, neither of which has happened. Knowing what we know now, a serviceable pg from the portal would have been helpful
Some fun numbers.
Currently are 15-3, 6-1 through 18 games.
2023-2024 was 13-5, 4-3 through 18 games.
2022-2023 was 14-4, 6-1 through 18 games.
2021-2022 was 12-6, 3-4 through 18 games
Started 0-3 in BE play in 2021-22 won the next 7. Largest regular season BE win streaks below...
Won 6 BE games in a row this year
Won 8 BE games in a row last year
Won 6 BE games in a row in 2022-23
Won 7 BE games in a row in 2021-22
Surprised to see the largest BE regular season win streak at just 6 in 2022-23 seeing they went 17-3.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 19, 2025, 10:38:44 AMI think the main advantage to the current retain and develop strategy is that we have a natural advantage early in the season as we have players that have been in the system and played together for multiple years. Teams that bring in a lot of transfers will likely get much better over the course of the season. I don't know that we will...maybe so, but I think our ceiling is higher relative to other teams earlier in the season than later.
I agree with you. But I still think there is room for improvement with Shaka's retain and develop model for this season and future seasons. Now, this is predicated on getting the right players. The freshman likely will get better. Their development along with Kam getting out of his funk are how this team improves and reaches a high ceiling.
It does concern me that the entire sophomore class seems to be lost. They simply do not contribute enough to give me hope that they will succeed like Kam, Stevie, Tyler, Chase, Ben, Oso, and Omax did at a similar stage in their careers. They are a weak link in the chain and could lead to a lower ceiling this year and certainly next year.
Here's where I am coming from.
I recall us being in the top 10 in offensive efficiency per KenPom earlier in the season. We are currently 24th. That feels like a significant drop and I'm guessing if you were to look at other Top 20-30 teams you would not find another team with a similar decline.
Perhaps this is bad thinking since:
1) early season numbers are based, in part, on the prior season (I think...I am hardly an expert on this).
2) I could be way off on thinking we were a top 10 offense early on and/or that we are the only such team with a significant decline.
3) the only team I obsessively follow is Marquette so maybe there are other teams out there with similar pattern
Quote from: wisblue on January 19, 2025, 10:29:36 AMWould you rather that I list all of the teams that the NIT has ranked higher than MU plus a few that have moved up significantly while MU has dropped?
I do want to clarify something since I'm definitely among those pushing back.
I agree we are not playing at the level we need to right now and we need to play better to make a march run and earn a top 2-3 seed.
But it feels like you're assuming we won't play better. We had similar stretches the past two years and both times the team figured it all out and had a great year.
The staff and the guys deserve our trust and optimism until they prove they don't.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 19, 2025, 01:54:27 PMI do want to clarify something since I'm definitely among those pushing back.
I agree we are not playing at the level we need to right now and we need to play better to make a march run and earn a top 2-3 seed.
But it feels like you're assuming we won't play better. We had similar stretches the past two years and both times the team figured it all out and had a great year.
The staff and the guys deserve our trust and optimism until they prove they don't.
Exactly.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 19, 2025, 11:44:23 AMIs NIT rank different than the NET rank?
Nope, just a typo.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 19, 2025, 01:54:27 PMI do want to clarify something since I'm definitely among those pushing back.
I agree we are not playing at the level we need to right now and we need to play better to make a march run and earn a top 2-3 seed.
But it feels like you're assuming we won't play better. We had similar stretches the past two years and both times the team figured it all out and had a great year.
The staff and the guys deserve our trust and optimism until they prove they don't.
I am not making that assumption.
I think that all of my comments about the future have been prefaced with something to the effect that "if MU doesn't play better"..".
Quote from: wisblue on January 19, 2025, 02:06:21 PMNope, just a typo.
And here I thought that Shaka had rejected the NET
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 19, 2025, 10:48:11 AMI probably lean more toward wisblue opinion vs others.
That said, responses to his posts (which were seemingly logical/rational) vs responses to brew (despite having similar viewpoints) is interesting.
brew is generally optimistic about Marquette basketball, so when he uses statistics and observations to point out stuff such as troubling trends, it makes me go, "Hmm."
wisblue usually articulates glass-half-empty views - he calls them "realistic" - and admits to basing much of his viewpoint on the eye test. So when he simply articulates his latest glass-half-empty view, it makes me go, "Ho-hum."
It doesn't mean I think that wisblue is a bad fan or that he doesn't make many valid points. I certainly agree we haven't played great most of the conference season. But after a while, it becomes a "blue who cries realistic" kind of thing.
But hey, I tend to be more of an optimist, and I definitely have learned to give Shaka the benefit of the doubt.
I, for one, welcome wisblue's insights and hope he continues posting them. I also hope he knows he'll sometimes get pushback from a base of diehard Marquette basketball fans, especially when we have a first-place team.
What I try to do is read a post and determine the merit/pluses/minuses irrespective of he author. I feel when you do that you have a better ability to evaluate without bias.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 18, 2025, 07:31:31 PMAnybody hear anything about Chase's injury?
I sat next to somebody at the game that was telling me he sustained a serious thumb injury against DePaul.
I hadn't seen or heard that anywhere until today.
I guess the person I sat next to maybe, possibly, knew something.
https://x.com/BenSteeleMJS/status/1882970803983298635?t=LZRN6tx6-Sc-8LlCBZIf_A&s=19