https://sports.yahoo.com/doc-power-conferences-seeking-more-control-over-ncaa-championships-governance-232802449.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAB_v67gHbjgSTW88osS-uJn1WTTtgHpi31Lc58h0FzY1Wau2-2Kz8RRK1W5qvC2xFI07Y56Npmf0ffxKupovfwqqLhLVorVg8IbzYK5vVLbrRBQGVE-tQX2Kw1b_Aph_hcwyiPxm98VhtZ1L_Tcfiqpk3VSup111VMvoCC8at3NT
Four of the last eight champions were Big East.
Quote from: NCMUFan on January 08, 2025, 08:19:30 PMFour of the last eight champions were Big East.
Big Ten needs something drastic to win one for the first time since 2000.
I hate college football and what it's doing to the landscape. And I hate the power conferences.
Quote from: NCMUFan on January 08, 2025, 08:19:30 PMFour of the last eight champions were Big East.
And eight of the last 21.
There's nothing good in that proposal.
Football doing is best to ruin everything for everybody.
Quote from: NCMUFan on January 08, 2025, 08:19:30 PMFour of the last eight champions were Big East.
This seems like a nice way to ensure the next one isn't.
much ado about nothing. There are 28 other conferences that would need to sign off on that.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 09, 2025, 08:13:16 AMmuch ado about nothing. There are 28 other conferences that would need to sign off on that.
I wouldn't say that. The issue is that eventually those conferences will get to the point where they break away. From the article:
"This could be a real fight over the future of what college athletics looks like," one FCS leader said. "At some point, we're going to have to call their bluff and say, 'Take your ball and go.' It seems to me that we are increasingly closer to that happening."
Yeah, this feels very much like them laying the groundwork to break away completely, or create their own division and put everyone else below.
I think they'll likely break from the NCAA in the coming few years. I'm a bit of a doomer when it comes to this topic, though.
Edit: Same as MUfan12
Quote from: Skatastrophy on January 09, 2025, 09:44:16 AMI think they'll likely break from the NCAA in the coming few years. I'm a bit of a doomer when it comes to this topic, though.
Edit: Same as MUfan12
I kinda think you are right. I would push the envelope out a little further though.
And I think it will come from the non-P4 members finally saying "yeah, go ahead." Yes, they will lose a bunch of revenue, but they will also be able to lower their cost structure because they won't have to keep up with what is happening at the top.
What that means for Marquette and the BE, I have no idea.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 09, 2025, 09:33:22 AMYeah, this feels very much like them laying the groundwork to break away completely, or create their own division and put everyone else below.
This is the end game
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 09:48:21 AMI kinda think you are right. I would push the envelope out a little further though.
And I think it will come from the non-P4 members finally saying "yeah, go ahead." Yes, they will lose a bunch of revenue, but they will also be able to lower their cost structure because they won't have to keep up with what is happening at the top.
What that means for Marquette and the BE, I have no idea.
How sustainable is that really though? I mean the inevitable power vacuum lower tier teams leftover will have gaudy records while teams that are usually considered competitive will now find themselves at the bottom. How long till fans stop caring, NIL donors start saying "money can be spent elsewhere" etc
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 09, 2025, 10:12:05 AMHow sustainable is that really though? I mean the inevitable power vacuum lower tier teams leftover will have gaudy records while teams that are usually considered competitive will now find themselves at the bottom. How long till fans stop caring, NIL donors start saying "money can be spent elsewhere" etc
One thing the P4 has figured out is that the fans really don't stop caring.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 10:15:32 AMOne thing the P4 has figured out is that the fans really don't stop caring.
This is true. It applies to me from the flip side, I have never been a big consumer of college football and BCS, CFP and the expanded CFP has not motivated me to care more.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 10:15:32 AMOne thing the P4 has figured out is that the fans really don't stop caring.
Wonder why this seems to be true at those schools and not schools like ours. DePaul and Georgetown even Seton Hall all seem to be having a different experience with their fans
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 09, 2025, 10:19:57 AMThis is true. It applies to me from the flip side, I have never been a big consumer of college football and BCS, CFP and the expanded CFP has not motivated me to care more.
I'll admit it's made me care ever so slightly more from complete apathy to following the headlines. But yeah mostly the same
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 09:48:21 AMWhat that means for Marquette and the BE, I have no idea.
My worst fear is that once that TV deal is up, MU and other non-P4 football schools are done as national programs in basketball.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 09:48:21 AMI kinda think you are right. I would push the envelope out a little further though.
And I think it will come from the non-P4 members finally saying "yeah, go ahead." Yes, they will lose a bunch of revenue, but they will also be able to lower their cost structure because they won't have to keep up with what is happening at the top.
What that means for Marquette and the BE, I have no idea.
That's the big question. I really
hate the thought of it, but employing one of Muggsy's patented words, I think they would eviscerate the BE. Hopefully Marquette would be added to one of the 4 power conferences.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 09, 2025, 10:19:57 AMThis is true. It applies to me from the flip side, I have never been a big consumer of college football and BCS, CFP and the expanded CFP has not motivated me to care more.
Interesting. I'm more motivated to watch the CFP since the games have meaning, while as previously, I just tuned out all of the bowl games except the championship.
I do think consolidation needs to happen to some degree. 364 D1 programs is far too many. Only having 70 or so is far too few and would destroy what makes the tournament so great.
Hopium makes me believe that when the P4 decide to break away they will extend an invite to certain leagues/teams that make sense and can compete economically and on the field.
The obvious one is of course Notre Dame in Football, but I think there's room for a few more schools/leagues to round out the rest of the new division. The schools of the new Pac7, for example. There's no reason for Boise State and SDSU to be OUT while Syracuse and Vanderbilt are IN. Big names that can't find a conference like Memphis and UConn. And yes, the competitive hoops schools that don't offer football, like Marquette, Creighton, Nova, St. Johns, and others.
Should MVSU and Coppin St and Pine Bluff and New Hampshire get the call? Hell no. But there is a reasonable line to draw somewhere in the middle of D1. Marquette SHOULD be above that line when the dust settles.
And if not, we dominate the remainder until someone notices and we force their hands.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on January 09, 2025, 11:16:49 AMAnd if not, we dominate the remainder until someone notices and we force their hands.
Why would that force their hands?
"If you can't beat em, take your ball and go home", seems like a real possibility.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on January 09, 2025, 11:16:49 AMThe obvious one is of course Notre Dame in Football, but I think there's room for a few more schools/leagues to round out the rest of the new division. The schools of the new Pac7, for example. There's no reason for Boise State and SDSU to be OUT while Syracuse and Vanderbilt are IN. Big names that can't find a conference like Memphis and UConn. And yes, the competitive hoops schools that don't offer football, like Marquette, Creighton, Nova, St. Johns, and others.
Agree, but any offers to join will be strictly on their terms. They would not need to treat the Marquette and other BE teams as equals. They would force our hands, not vice versa. Trust the bastards only half as far as you can throw them.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 09, 2025, 11:25:52 AMAgree, but any offers to join will be strictly on their terms. They would not need to treat the Marquette and other BE teams as equals. They would force our hands, not vice versa. Trust the bastards only half as far as you can throw them.
Of course it will be on their terms. But the "you only get 70% of the basketball revenue share" offer is preferable to being in the permanent underclass of whatever remains. If Yormark calls Kimo Ah Yun with an offer, he should say yes immediately.
That said, I think there's a cutoff at about 80 football schools and about 100 basketball schools that "makes sense." We're well above the cut line in that scenario.
Others have said this before, but no sport in America makes more sense for pro/rel than college football and college hoops, so I'd love to see some version of that. If everyone outside the P4 conferences has to play their way in, I feel confident that we would.
I feel MU and like schools would be invited only if it makes sense from a dollars perspective. I could see it making sense as they wouldn't have to dilute a ton of money since we'd not be joining for football and could bring in revenue for basketball.
Basically, similar to how it went when we joined the Big East.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on January 09, 2025, 11:47:08 AMOf course it will be on their terms. But the "you only get 70% of the basketball revenue share" offer is preferable to being in the permanent underclass of whatever remains. If Yormark calls Kimo Ah Yun with an offer, he should say yes immediately.
That said, I think there's a cutoff at about 80 football schools and about 100 basketball schools that "makes sense." We're well above the cut line in that scenario.
Others have said this before, but no sport in America makes more sense for pro/rel than college football and college hoops, so I'd love to see some version of that. If everyone outside the P4 conferences has to play their way in, I feel confident that we would.
The fault in your reasoning is that if Marquette isn't included its basketball program will likely fall by the wayside down to the mid major level. Sure there will be pissed off alumni... literally everyone here... but we can't do much about it. We can cry and whine and bitch all we want, but at the end of the day, the big conferences will get bigger and make more money. In a decade, there won't be MU basketball to root for in the same capacity, and most of the potential MU fans will end up fans of a nearby B1G school, or a school they've chosen... much like the NBA.
It's a sad state, but it is certainly a very distinct reality. If it happens, I will never watch another college sport or attend an event as long as I live.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 09, 2025, 12:33:58 PMThe fault in your reasoning is that if Marquette isn't included its basketball program will likely fall by the wayside down to the mid major level. Sure there will be pissed off alumni... literally everyone here... but we can't do much about it. We can cry and whine and bitch all we want, but at the end of the day, the big conferences will get bigger and make more money. In a decade, there won't be MU basketball to root for in the same capacity, and most of the potential MU fans will end up fans of a nearby B1G school, or a school they've chosen... much like the NBA.
It's a sad state, but it is certainly a very distinct reality. If it happens, I will never watch another college sport or attend an event as long as I live.
This is the part I'm not sure about. While there are plenty of Walmart Badger football fans, there arent that many Walmart Badger basketball fans. While college football would certainly be fine I think it could result in a larger drop off in interest in the sport all together. Slashing the number of teams has its benefits but there are diminishing returns.
Personally, I think the Power 2.5 stay in basketball but continue to consolidate power and money in their favor. Maybe they kick out the low majors.
CBB needs promotion/relegation
Quote from: Skatastrophy on January 09, 2025, 04:04:34 PMCBB needs promotion/relegation
How many divisions? 3,4,5 or 6?
All of this is a reminder that while we here consider the Big East a top-4 basketball conference - and stats/ratings confirm as much - those who lord over college sports don't give a rat's rump about the Big East or what we think about it.
Quote from: MU82 on January 09, 2025, 05:40:56 PMAll of this is a reminder that while we here consider the Big East a top-4 basketball conference - and stats/ratings confirm as much - those who lord over college sports don't give a rat's rump about the Big East or what we think about it.
No one gave a rat's rump about the PAC 12! I quote Bill Walton "The Conference of Champions.
Spoke with my Brother-In-Law who is a Wake Forest graduate.
It was in regards to the mega size that the ACC is with western teams.
He questioned the economic feasibility of flying the athletic teams of non-revenue sports across the country constantly and also the time factor.
Back in August I stated below in the Conference realignment thread:
"My bigger worry is what the football schools do with the NCAA B'ball tournament. Everyone seems to say that there is no way they would tamper with the thing that keeps the NCAA afloat financially but when did the power conferences ever give a dam about the basketball only or lower football schools. My brother in law was the AD at an Atlantic 10 school (retired in the last 5 years) and he is very concerned about what the outlook of college sports will be in the next 5-10 years. Face it, without the chance to play in the tournament there is no future for MU"
This is a much bigger deal than most people think.
Wasn't the talk that the ACC was in deep trouble as a conference? Now, all of a sudden, they are gonna emerge from this with real power?
Quote from: MU1in77 on January 09, 2025, 07:30:45 PMBack in August I stated below in the Conference realignment thread:
"My bigger worry is what the football schools do with the NCAA B'ball tournament. Everyone seems to say that there is no way they would tamper with the thing that keeps the NCAA afloat financially but when did the power conferences ever give a dam about the basketball only or lower football schools. My brother in law was the AD at an Atlantic 10 school (retired in the last 5 years) and he is very concerned about what the outlook of college sports will be in the next 5-10 years. Face it, without the chance to play in the tournament there is no future for MU"
This is a much bigger deal than most people think.
On the contrary, I think
most people/scoopers understand that this is a big deal. It reminds me of the famous line from
The Godfather..."I'm going to make you an offer that you can't refuse."
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 09:48:21 AMI kinda think you are right. I would push the envelope out a little further though.
And I think it will come from the non-P4 members finally saying "yeah, go ahead." Yes, they will lose a bunch of revenue, but they will also be able to lower their cost structure because they won't have to keep up with what is happening at the top.
What that means for Marquette and the BE, I have no idea.
If the doom scenario happens and the p4 kill the rest of basketball, marquette gets swallowed up by the big ten. Marquette has to big of numbers to really fail, and has a big enough city in an NBA venue to not need to rely on the big east.
They could go to any conference for basketball and volleyball, and everything else would go small.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on January 09, 2025, 09:44:16 AMI think they'll likely break from the NCAA in the coming few years. I'm a bit of a doomer when it comes to this topic, though.
Edit: Same as MUfan12
Well according to MIT and the Doom thread, civilization is about to fall off a cliff in 2040 anyway, so the college basketball may be a goner anyway.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on January 10, 2025, 12:00:26 AMIf the doom scenario happens and the p4 kill the rest of basketball, marquette gets swallowed up by the big ten. Marquette has to big of numbers to really fail, and has a big enough city in an NBA venue to not need to rely on the big east.
They could go to any conference for basketball and volleyball, and everything else would go small.
Marquette would not be getting a B10 invite.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on January 10, 2025, 12:00:26 AMIf the doom scenario happens and the p4 kill the rest of basketball, marquette gets swallowed up by the big ten. Marquette has to big of numbers to really fail, and has a big enough city in an NBA venue to not need to rely on the big east.
They could go to any conference for basketball and volleyball, and everything else would go small.
Sounds nice, but the B1G would see us as unnecessary competition for Wisconsin. My guess is if you asked the top brass, there are some schools in the "Power 4" conferences that don't pull their weight and are seen as taking a hand out rather than serious competition.
We'd be on the outside looking in simply because everything that isn't football is basically an after thought. Sure, basketball is valuable, but football is prioritized because it isn't close.
If the ultimate goal is to maximize the money, then the most valuable/better funded bball only schools will find a home. It just doesnt cost the big conferences enough to throw a bone to these schools and fold them in for the scraps. Plus I'd imagine the added content can be leveraged with the networks.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 10, 2025, 06:40:38 AMSounds nice, but the B1G would see us as unnecessary competition for Wisconsin. My guess is if you asked the top brass, there are some schools in the "Power 4" conferences that don't pull their weight and are seen as taking a hand out rather than serious competition.
We'd be on the outside looking in simply because everything that isn't football is basically an after thought. Sure, basketball is valuable, but football is prioritized because it isn't close.
But the amount of money I'd pay to be in a room with Tom Oates if that happened is not an issue
Quote from: MU82 on January 09, 2025, 08:29:29 PMWasn't the talk that the ACC was in deep trouble as a conference? Now, all of a sudden, they are gonna emerge from this with real power?
Don't forget the Pac12 entered an alliance with the B10 a few years ago that "solidified" it as a power.
Just like the Pac12 was, the ACC is a power as presently constructed.
So, who is driving this: The Conferences, individual schools, content providers, all of the above? Certainly not the NCAA.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 10, 2025, 09:42:07 AMSo, who is driving this: The Conferences, individual schools, content providers, all of the above? Certainly not the NCAA.
yes
Quote from: MU82 on January 09, 2025, 08:29:29 PMWasn't the talk that the ACC was in deep trouble as a conference? Now, all of a sudden, they are gonna emerge from this with real power?
Still can't see the ACC surviving their current TV deal.
Tables from Paint Touches.
(https://painttouches.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-3.png)
(https://painttouches.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-7.png)
Where the NBA gets its player:
http://www.rpiratings.com/NBA.php
When in doubt, always assume it is about the benjamins.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 10, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWhere the NBA gets its player:
http://www.rpiratings.com/NBA.php
Who is the one Big East team without an NBA player? Butler?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 10, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWhere the NBA gets its player:
http://www.rpiratings.com/NBA.php
??? This is very old info
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 10, 2025, 06:40:38 AMWe'd be on the outside looking in simply because everything that isn't football is basically an after thought. Sure, basketball is valuable, but football is prioritized because it isn't close.
We may or may not get an invite, but we are not in a position to negotiate terms that are even close to being fair. The Power 4 is obviously in the driver's seat. They would likely structure the NCAA tourney to make it very difficult for any non-Power 4 team to advance beyond the SS.
Maybe they would remove the ban on going to the NIT if a school turned down an NCAA bid. Then Marquette would very happily go to the NIT every year and watch the NCAA on TV, just as we did decades ago, right? ;D
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 10, 2025, 09:57:00 AM??? This is very old info
So what is the current data?
Copyright at bottom says 2025.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 10, 2025, 10:01:37 AMSo what is the current data?
Copyright at bottom says 2025.
So you are asking for someone to do your research? Why?
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 10, 2025, 09:59:28 AMWe may or may not get an invite, but we are not in a position to negotiate terms that are even close to being fair. The Power 4 is obviously in the driver's seat. They would likely structure the NCAA tourney to make it very difficult for any non-Power 4 team to advance beyond the SS.
Maybe they would remove the ban on going to the NIT if a school turned down an NCAA bid. Then Marquette would very happily go to the NIT every year and watch the NCAA on TV, just as we did decades ago, right? ;D
Yeah that's really the point, we'd have no power in any negotiations. Sure they might keep the same 68 team format, but there are already 68 of the P4 schools (SEC, B1G, B12 and ACC) and then what? Increase the size of the tournament to include the 'lesser' conference players? For what? Why share the wealth.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 10, 2025, 10:01:37 AMSo what is the current data?
Copyright at bottom says 2025.
That probably just automatically updates to the current date.
Mike Budenholzer hasn't coached the Bucks in years... many things are off.
Quote from: tower912 on January 10, 2025, 09:55:59 AMWhen in doubt, always assume it is about the benjamins.
Good thing we have one, and he's worth his weight in Gold.
Quote from: tower912 on January 10, 2025, 09:55:59 AMWhen in doubt, always assume it is about the benjamins.
The greed payed off with football. Basketball is next on the list.
Make no mistake. NIL is in place because it makes money for schools while they don't have to spend. As you said, this power grab is simply about the money. The schools will reap the profits while real fans are left out of the equation. A tournament of the 4 big conferences holds no appeal to me. The first weekend of the tournament as it is currently constructed is the best week of college basketball of the entire year.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 10:15:32 AMOne thing the P4 has figured out is that the fans really don't stop caring.
Not so sure they're right. Would the casual fan care about a 70 plus tournament of teams who just spent the season competing against each other? Takes some of the magic out of March I think. Also, who holds the rights to "March Madness", "Elite Eight", etc.? Remaining schools could have a really good NIT with compelling story lines. :)
Quote from: wiscwarrior on January 12, 2025, 08:36:00 AMNot so sure they're right. Would the casual fan care about a 70 plus tournament of teams who just spent the season competing against each other? Takes some of the magic out of March I think. Also, who holds the rights to "March Madness", "Elite Eight", etc.? Remaining schools could have a really good NIT with compelling story lines. :)
Disagree. That NIT would be bowl games along the lines of the Boca Raton Bowl
Quote from: wiscwarrior on January 12, 2025, 08:36:00 AMNot so sure they're right. Would the casual fan care about a 70 plus tournament of teams who just spent the season competing against each other? Takes some of the magic out of March I think. Also, who holds the rights to "March Madness", "Elite Eight", etc.? Remaining schools could have a really good NIT with compelling story lines. :)
But don't the NBA, NFL and MLB compete against the same teams during their playoffs? It works.
If the Power 4 leaves and they run their own tourney, what is left in terms of broadcast days and times for the NIT as you describe it? I really hate the direction this is all likely heading, but the reality is that the Power 4 will get what they want from the NCAA due to their thinly veiled threat to leave. If including teams like Marquette in their plans somehow helps the Power 4 earn more $, we're OK, but I think assuming that is very naive. As I said in another post in this thread, think of the famous line: "I'm going to make you an offer that you can't refuse."
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 12, 2025, 09:30:48 AMBut don't the NBA, NFL and MLB compete against the same teams during their playoffs? It works.
Yes. But if a team plays well enough to be in the Playoffs, then they are in. They don't get rejected for being in a small market or for having a lower payroll.
Every team in the pro leagues is eligible for the playoffs.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 12, 2025, 09:30:48 AMBut don't the NBA, NFL and MLB compete against the same teams during their playoffs? It works.
If the Power 4 leaves and they run their own tourney, what is left in terms of broadcast days and times for the NIT as you describe it? I really hate the direction this is all likely heading, but the reality is that the Power 4 will get what they want from the NCAA due to their thinly veiled threat to leave. If including teams like Marquette in their plans somehow helps the Power 4 earn more $, we're OK, but I think assuming that is very naive. As I said in another post in this thread, think of the famous line: "I'm going to make you an offer that you can't refuse."
MU can only continue to do it's best. The power shifted decades ago and now MU can only hope that the broadcasters/streamers see value in the BE. The only two groups that matter are the presidents and TV. The P4 presidents have shown they will follow the money, so I suppose this is all in TV's hands.
Not sure what she can do, but I like Val as the BE point person.
It is interesting that this is happening in high school also. I found it interesting that the HS Top 25 has no Illinois teams (used to have 2-3 each year) and it is basically made up of academies and prep schools.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 12, 2025, 10:15:51 AMMU can only continue to do it's best. The power shifted decades ago and now MU can only hope that the broadcasters/streamers see value in the BE. The only two groups that matter are the presidents and TV. The P4 presidents have shown they will follow the money, so I suppose this is all in TV's hands.
Not sure what she can do, but I like Val as the BE point person.
It is interesting that this is happening in high school also. I found it interesting that the HS Top 25 has no Illinois teams (used to have 2-3 each year) and it is basically made up of academies and prep schools.
Agree completely on Val. The best thing the BE can do is improve collectively as a conference so we ae valuable enough to add profit to a P4 dominated NCAA, which I believe is inevitable. Val will be a great "lawyer" for the BE when the P4 muscles their way into the decision-making process of the tourney.
I just question how a rerun of the conference season for the P4 schools is going to be compelling TV watching compared to the current arrangement where many more schools and their fans are deeply involved. It's kind of why kill the goose who lays the golden eggs?
Feels like a less important regular season with a less exciting post season.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 12, 2025, 01:15:50 PMFeels like a less important regular season with a less exciting post season.
Except if your a fan of Rutgers, Arizona State, Vanderbilt, Minny or Syracuse. ;)
Quote from: wiscwarrior on January 12, 2025, 01:11:22 PMI just question how a rerun of the conference season for the P4 schools is going to be compelling TV watching compared to the current arrangement where many more schools and their fans are deeply involved. It's kind of why kill the goose who lays the golden eggs?
I'm
with you bro! The answer to your question is money. They're looking out strictly for themselves and want to milk the tourney for as much as they can get. But your question is certainly legit when considered from a different angle-will the fans/TV viewers stay if the very successful format is changed substantially? Let's hope that the P4 (I just corrected my accidentally typed P$ but maybe I should have left it in ;D ) concludes that is in their best interests to not overreach.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/rick-pitino-endorses-coach-k-s-merger-proposal-to-create-mega-basketball-conference/ar-BB1riEQJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=e80cdc7ab5264b9486d39f62c9f74e33&ei=15
Coach K and Rick Patino agree on a merger. Didn't we just divorce them? The new landscape might just lead to a reconciliation.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 12, 2025, 05:19:27 PMhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/rick-pitino-endorses-coach-k-s-merger-proposal-to-create-mega-basketball-conference/ar-BB1riEQJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=e80cdc7ab5264b9486d39f62c9f74e33&ei=15
Coach K and Rick Patino agree on a merger. Didn't we just divorce them? The new landscape might just lead to a reconciliation.
Interesting. If the prevailing prediction that UNC, Clemson, FSU and Miami bolt I can see the ACC's interest. I also think the BE should listen. Make Val the commish :D
I don't see how this merger would be helpful. Old basketball coaches operating on nostalgia more than anything.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 12, 2025, 05:55:56 PMI don't see how this merger would be helpful. Old basketball coaches operating on nostalgia more than anything.
But letting the players get some money just makes life too difficult.
I particularly don't understand why the ACC would have any interest.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 12, 2025, 05:55:56 PMI don't see how this merger would be helpful. Old basketball coaches operating on nostalgia more than anything.
Seat at the table, my man. That is it.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 12, 2025, 06:06:26 PMSeat at the table, my man. That is it.
But how does it help the ACC?
Quote from: The Sultan on January 12, 2025, 06:07:17 PMBut how does it help the ACC?
Just added mass to the conference for media revenue and insulation against defections.
Not sure I agree with it and I'm not sure I'd want the BE to do it, but I can see some logic.
(basically what the Big12 is kicking around already, just maybe a bigger version)
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 12, 2025, 06:10:40 PMJust added mass to the conference for media revenue and insulation against defections.
Not sure I agree with it and I'm not sure I'd want the BE to do it, but I can see some logic.
I'm not even sure what "adding mass" means here. Everything about conference expansion and the P4 is driven by football. This just adds a lot of teams that don't play football, and therefore have other motives and priorities.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 12, 2025, 06:13:25 PMI'm not even sure what "adding mass" means here. Everything about conference expansion and the P4 is driven by football. This just adds a lot of teams that don't play football, and therefore have other motives and priorities.
<I did a quick edit to my post.> The Big 12 has been exploring this strategy for a year. I'd guess the thought process is that are no meaningful football schools to be had so they would pivot to basketball. You could argue the BE TV deal proves out part of their theory.
IMO there are more reasons not to do it, but it may not be totally crazy.
EDIT: Sultan please don't read my post as an endorsement. Also I don't think Coach K and Pitino are looking at this the same way the Big 12 is. I agree it a couple of older coaches who just think it would be cool to have a bunch of schools with rich basketball histories and passionate fans in the same conference.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 12, 2025, 06:22:01 PM<I did a quick edit to my post.> The Big 12 has been exploring this strategy for a year. I'd guess the thought process is that are no meaningful football schools to be had so they would pivot to basketball. You could argue the BE TV deal proves out part of their theory.
IMO there are more reasons not to do it, but it may not be totally crazy.
The Big 12 keeps pushing this, and the presidents keep telling them "no." It makes no sense.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 12, 2025, 06:35:26 PMThe Big 12 keeps pushing this, and the presidents keep telling them "no." It makes no sense.
I'd bet the ACC presidents would do the exact same.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 12, 2025, 07:10:37 PMI'd bet the ACC presidents would do the exact same.
Correct. Because they're smart.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 12, 2025, 07:11:07 PMCorrect. Because they're smart.
Not based on their TV deal.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/college-basketball-mid-majors-have-officially-been-purged-out-of-relevancy/ar-BB1rkuQn?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=dacdcf009cf1409787646cafda44ccfb&ei=14
More about NIL, but all this conference realignment is also playing a factor.
Conference re-alignment was the first domino.
Quote from: tower912 on January 13, 2025, 10:54:59 AMConference re-alignment was the first domino.
True. But the comment about coaches of mid-majors leaving for greener pastures after an impressive showing in the tourney?
OLD news.
Quote from: wiscwarrior on January 12, 2025, 08:36:00 AMAlso, who holds the rights to "March Madness", "Elite Eight", etc.? Remaining schools could have a really good NIT with compelling story lines. :)
For a long time, the trademark for the term "March Madness" belonged not to the NCAA, but to the IHSA (Illinois High School sports). The term dates WAY further back to describe Illinois' high school basketbal tournament.
At least that's what I learned growing up, but it looks like the NCAA has since bought out the IHSA's ownership of the term. https://www.bfvlaw.com/ncaa-trademarks-think-twice-before-advertising-march-madness/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ncaa-president-charlie-baker-addresses-transfer-portal-proposal-power-four-conferences-wanting-more-control/ar-AA1xdlZw?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=37c52328575c4204a9905ce4e31b876f&ei=10
Not sure if this is old news. Are the transfer rules different for each sport?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 15, 2025, 07:55:55 AMhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ncaa-president-charlie-baker-addresses-transfer-portal-proposal-power-four-conferences-wanting-more-control/ar-AA1xdlZw?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=37c52328575c4204a9905ce4e31b876f&ei=10
Not sure if this is old news. Are the transfer rules different for each sport?
They are only for the transfer windows. Fall sports have the windows open after the season so kids can transfer to another institution for the second semester. Otherwise, kids in winter and spring sports have to remain at their schools for the entire year unless the coach leaves).
Football also has an additional transfer window when spring practice is done. This is where more poaching occurs as after spring practice programs see what their positions of need for the upcoming season are...or to send kids packing.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 15, 2025, 09:46:50 AMThey are only for the transfer windows. Fall sports have the windows open after the season so kids can transfer to another institution for the second semester. Otherwise, kids in winter and spring sports have to remain at their schools for the entire year unless the coach leaves).
Football also has an additional transfer window when spring practice is done. This is where more poaching occurs as after spring practice programs see what their positions of need for the upcoming season are...or to send kids packing.
This proposal would eliminate the April window.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 15, 2025, 09:48:35 AMThis proposal would eliminate the April window.
Correct. I was responding to the question about sports currently having different transfer windows.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 12, 2025, 09:30:48 AMBut don't the NBA, NFL and MLB compete against the same teams during their playoffs? It works.
If the Power 4 leaves and they run their own tourney, what is left in terms of broadcast days and times for the NIT as you describe it? I really hate the direction this is all likely heading, but the reality is that the Power 4 will get what they want from the NCAA due to their thinly veiled threat to leave. If including teams like Marquette in their plans somehow helps the Power 4 earn more $, we're OK, but I think assuming that is very naive. As I said in another post in this thread, think of the famous line: "I'm going to make you an offer that you can't refuse."
Nailed it.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 12, 2025, 06:22:01 PM<I did a quick edit to my post.> The Big 12 has been exploring this strategy for a year. I'd guess the thought process is that are no meaningful football schools to be had so they would pivot to basketball. You could argue the BE TV deal proves out part of their theory.
IMO there are more reasons not to do it, but it may not be totally crazy.
EDIT: Sultan please don't read my post as an endorsement. Also I don't think Coach K and Pitino are looking at this the same way the Big 12 is. I agree it a couple of older coaches who just think it would be cool to have a bunch of schools with rich basketball histories and passionate fans in the same conference.
Wild, the UConn fans I've interacted with are delusional to think they have a shot at being invited to a P4 conference, despite the fact that their football team is a money pit.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 15, 2025, 01:36:12 PMWild, the UConn fans I've interacted with are delusional to think they have a shot at being invited to a P4 conference, despite the fact that their football team is a money pit.
Yeah, UCONN is not SMU.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 15, 2025, 05:38:13 PMYeah, UCONN is not SMU.
UConn will be in a power 4 conference sooner than later
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 15, 2025, 05:49:53 PMUConn will be in a power 4 conference sooner than later
If UCONN was SMU, they'd already be in a P4 conference.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 15, 2025, 05:49:53 PMUConn will be in a power 4 conference sooner than later
Doubt it. If there was interest, they'd be in one. Their football team loses money and has poor attendance. Of course, some of this would improve on the first day they're in a new conference via revenue sharing... but they'd just be another mouth to feed... and I don't know that they'd be adding a media market.
If they fit anywhere it is the ACC, but then the question becomes... what's the hold up? If is the Big East buy out, surely the ACC (or whomever) can help pay for it.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 16, 2025, 06:16:27 AMIf they fit anywhere it is the ACC, but then the question becomes... what's the hold up? If is the Big East buy out, surely the ACC (or whomever) can help pay for it.
Does the ACC want to give a share of their already terrible TV deal to another football team that adds nothing?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 16, 2025, 08:09:59 AMDoes the ACC want to give a share of their already terrible TV deal to another football team that adds nothing?
No.
UConn will be swallowed up when the ACC implodes.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 16, 2025, 08:09:59 AMDoes the ACC want to give a share of their already terrible TV deal to another football team that adds nothing?
And that is what I'm really saying. Who wants them? Certainly not the B1G or SEC. The Big 12? Uhhhhh I guess, but why?
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 16, 2025, 08:28:49 AMAnd that is what I'm really saying. Who wants them? Certainly not the B1G or SEC. The Big 12? Uhhhhh I guess, but why?
Eventually when the ACC implodes, they'll add them with the rest of the scraps
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 16, 2025, 08:11:28 AMNo.
UConn will be swallowed up when the ACC implodes.
This I can see.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 16, 2025, 08:37:00 AMEventually when the ACC implodes, they'll add them with the rest of the scraps
Yeah, and at that point, they won't be a P4 conference anyway :P