This is from Pacific Palisades.
https://bsky.app/profile/coachfinstock.bsky.social/post/3lfalltlmbs2i
This is the same intersection on street view. (https://www.google.com/maps/place/15287+Sunset+Blvd,+Pacific+Palisades,+CA+90272/@34.047501,-118.5259657,3a,75y,121.06h,89.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1see_Zi1VLdgUlaVYBwRjS4Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0.17501441462930245%26panoid%3Dee_Zi1VLdgUlaVYBwRjS4Q%26yaw%3D121.0557457412329!7i16384!8i8192!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x80c2a37e7de6cd09:0xdd74ab065e036f6!2sN+Swarthmore+Ave,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90272!3b1!8m2!3d34.0419993!4d-118.5273637!16s%2Fg%2F1v9gvqvw!3m5!1s0x80c2a37a69f71aeb:0x36ae9373b2547e27!8m2!3d34.0472683!4d-118.5254271!16s%2Fg%2F11rg5_y8_0?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)
I have to sign in to view?
Well bye
I guess so.
Yikes that is awful. I was in San Clemente for work a few years back when the Santa Anas swept through and all the sudden a bunch of my coworkers who lived in Irvine had to leave to go get their pets.
Crazy fast spread. with little notice
My sister lives in Eagle Rock which is proximal to the Eaton/Pasadena fire. She lost power last night and this morning took her dogs outside and was freaked out enough by all the smoke that she and my brother-in-law packed up their family and some valuables and evacuated in the direction of OC. Not in mandatory evacuation zone yet, but it looks like it's moved in that direction since the morning. Really glad they evacuated early so they could find a place to stay and we don't have to worry about them as much now. She originally wanted to buy a house in Altadena...
Climate change is a problem. Oh well.
I haven't really been following (been too busy checking my list twice). But the fire & smoke map is one of my favorite resources: https://fire.airnow.gov/
Being a person that lives pretty deep in the forest, I hope my wooded haven can avoid a similar situation for another few decades.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 08, 2025, 05:09:38 PMClimate change is a problem. Oh well.
Nope, it's fake news.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 08, 2025, 08:11:03 PMNope, it's fake news.
At least it'll bring Americans toge—— never mind.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 08, 2025, 12:40:12 PMThis is from Pacific Palisades.
https://bsky.app/profile/coachfinstock.bsky.social/post/3lfalltlmbs2i
This is the same intersection on street view. (https://www.google.com/maps/place/15287+Sunset+Blvd,+Pacific+Palisades,+CA+90272/@34.047501,-118.5259657,3a,75y,121.06h,89.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1see_Zi1VLdgUlaVYBwRjS4Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0.17501441462930245%26panoid%3Dee_Zi1VLdgUlaVYBwRjS4Q%26yaw%3D121.0557457412329!7i16384!8i8192!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x80c2a37e7de6cd09:0xdd74ab065e036f6!2sN+Swarthmore+Ave,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90272!3b1!8m2!3d34.0419993!4d-118.5273637!16s%2Fg%2F1v9gvqvw!3m5!1s0x80c2a37a69f71aeb:0x36ae9373b2547e27!8m2!3d34.0472683!4d-118.5254271!16s%2Fg%2F11rg5_y8_0?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)
Jeez that looks like the footage from Hiroshima or Dresden.
Tough to loot when everything is ash aina
Really rough situation. Know a number of displaced people. Yikes
Quote from: pbiflyer on January 08, 2025, 09:55:12 PMJeez that looks like the footage from Hiroshima or Dresden.
Yeah the first footage I've seen without following the situation too closely was that it was a seen out of some sort of nuclear fallout movie. Absolutely insane.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 08, 2025, 11:11:54 PMTough to loot when everything is ash aina
Really rough situation. Know a number of displaced people. Yikes
Yeah I saw the LA AG (or something similar) say that they had arrested three (!) looters...
Seems like a slow day in LA.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 08, 2025, 05:09:38 PMClimate change is a problem. Oh well.
Poor forest management is a bigger problem, which helps these fires become more intense.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 09, 2025, 08:15:39 AMPoor forest management is a bigger problem, which helps these fires become more intense.
https://x.com/ayeejuju/status/1877213896739627214
Santa Ana's and careless people are a far greater cause.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 09, 2025, 08:15:39 AMPoor forest management is a bigger problem, which helps these fires become more intense.
West coast does not prescribe controlled burns nearly enough, especially when we want our cake and to eat it to with living and infrastructure in "natural" areas. Fair. Power lines and human behavior cause a lot of bad burns, with population that's only pushing further into these areas.
To say it is a far more significant driver than the whiplash of yearly 100 year rain events then rapid drought level heat drying the vegetation and creating a region's worth of kindling, and this occuring in early January out of fire season? That's delusion or bad faith argumentativeness.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 09, 2025, 08:15:39 AMPoor forest management is a bigger problem, which helps these fires become more intense.
Poor forest management is part of human hubris when it comes to nature. Methinks this will grow exponentially as we move forward with our greed
Forest management is to this particular fire as team ft% is to efg%. A factor. Far from the factor.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on January 09, 2025, 09:39:35 AMWest coast does not prescribe controlled burns nearly enough, especially when we want our cake and to eat it to with living and infrastructure in "natural" areas. Fair. Power lines and human behavior cause a lot of bad burns, with population that's only pushing further into these areas.
To say it is a far more significant driver than the whiplash of yearly 100 year rain events then rapid drought level heat drying the vegetation and creating a region's worth of kindling, and this occuring in early January out of fire season? That's delusion or bad faith argumentativeness.
I'm not saying it is the biggest problem, there are many issues going on here but the intensity of the fire can be partially attributed to California's poor management of forests, which has led over-accumulation of biomass in trees and on forest floors. It makes forests vulnerable to raging and fast moving forest fires, especially during dry seasons, even more so when winds are blowing.
Is climate change part of the cause? Yes, but not the only cause. The severity could likely have been mitigated through proper forest management.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 09, 2025, 12:07:45 PMI'm not saying it is the biggest problem, there are many issues going on here but the intensity of the fire can be partially attributed to California's poor management of forests, which has led over-accumulation of biomass in trees and on forest floors. It makes forests vulnerable to raging and fast moving forest fires, especially during dry seasons, even more so when winds are blowing.
Is climate change part of the cause? Yes, but not the only cause. The severity could likely have been mitigated through proper forest management.
"not the only cause" ≠ "is a bigger problem" as you originally said.
What is causing the rapid overaccumulation of biomass? All the forests were managed going back into BC years until Greenpeace came along?
Climate change increases the need for more robust forest management for the reasons I stated above, torrential precipitation followed by drought. It has always been about the extremes, not purely "warming".
The trees were there first and not being forest managed before, but yet the acreage of the forests burning down keeps increasing and at times of year not previously seen with this severity. Wonder why that is?
Minnesota-Rams game moved to Arizona.
Quote from: tower912 on January 10, 2025, 06:23:26 AMMinnesota-Rams game moved to Arizona.
Ironic that they moved the game to State Farm Stadium given that they stopped selling property insurance in California.
One of the major factors in forest fires is the species of trees in an area. Conifers are loaded with resin and can almost explode in a raging fire, while a fire in a hardwood forest may be brought under control, but with the very strong winds? Maybe it would not make much difference.
There was a forest fire on the property across from us that started when power lines were knocked down by a falling tree. The fire was mostly burning pine trees that ignited due to burning underbrush, but the hardwoods were barely scorched. The fire was quickly brought under control as the hardwoods were predominant. I'm not comparing a fire that singed about 5 acres before being extinguished-just mentioning that not all forest fires have the same dynamics. Conifers, steep slopes, super dry conditions and very strong winds combine to create the perfect storm. Forest management might have helped, but I doubt that it would have made much difference.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 10, 2025, 10:26:45 AMOne of the major factors in forest fires is the species of trees in an area. Conifers are loaded with resin and can almost explode in a raging fire, while a fire in a hardwood forest may be brought under control, but with the very strong winds? Maybe it would not make much difference.
There was a forest fire on the property across from us that started when power lines were knocked down by a falling tree. The fire was mostly burning pine trees that ignited due to burning underbrush, but the hardwoods were barely scorched. The fire was quickly brought under control as the hardwoods were predominant. I'm not comparing a fire that singed about 5 acres before being extinguished-just mentioning that not all forest fires have the same dynamics. Conifers, steep slopes, super dry conditions and very strong winds combine to create the perfect storm. Forest management might have helped, but I doubt that it would have made much difference.
You could cut down all of the trees I guess
Sure, (tick) off the Lorax.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on January 10, 2025, 02:07:49 PMYou could cut down all of the trees I guess
Extreme forest management. NO mercy. Nuke 'em. Go full Medieval.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on January 10, 2025, 02:07:49 PMYou could cut down all of the trees I guess
Once on vacation, we met a couple from California who ran a very lucrative landscaping business. They had a number of large commercial customers (corporate campuses, etc.).
Apparently, If you want to remove a tree from your private property, you need formal permission from the government, even if it is dead. One of the reasons they did so well is that they were one of the few businesses of its type that could successfully navigate all of the paperwork involved.
I can imagine that many people do not want the bother or expense, so trees that should come down because are fire hazards remain standing.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 10, 2025, 04:50:33 PMOnce on vacation, we met a couple from California who ran a very lucrative landscaping business. They had a number of large commercial customers (corporate campuses, etc.).
Apparently, If you want to remove a tree from your private property, you need formal permission from the government, even if it is dead. One of the reasons they did so well is that they were one of the few businesses of its type that could successfully navigate all of the paperwork involved.
I can imagine that many people do not want the bother or expense, so trees that should come down because are fire hazards remain standing.
My friend lives out there. They were between 2 houses. One that they absolutely loved ticked every box and was surprisingly well priced given SoCal. But it had a huge dying/nearly dead tree tilting in the side yard. The owners had not done anything with it specifically due to the above. Some brief research and exploration showed my buddy that it was going to be a significant paperwork/logistical ordeal beyond just removing the tree. The last thing they wanted to deal with moving with 2 young kids. So they didn't put an offer in and ended up buying else where...the tree fell less than a month later and caused 6 figures worth of damage.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 10, 2025, 04:50:33 PMOnce on vacation, we met a couple from California who ran a very lucrative landscaping business. They had a number of large commercial customers (corporate campuses, etc.).
Apparently, If you want to remove a tree from your private property, you need formal permission from the government, even if it is dead. One of the reasons they did so well is that they were one of the few businesses of its type that could successfully navigate all of the paperwork involved.
I can imagine that many people do not want the bother or expense, so trees that should come down because are fire hazards remain standing.
I don't think that individual trees on a person's property are a fire hazard.
As far as government permission? That is needed in Wisconsin as well.
Quote from: Jockey on January 10, 2025, 05:06:12 PMI don't think that individual trees on a person's property are a fire hazard.
As far as government permission? That is needed in Wisconsin as well.
I removed several trees from my property in the last few years. No permission needed.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 10, 2025, 05:16:59 PMI removed several trees from my property in the last few years. No permission needed.
We had the pines on our heavily wooded country property before building our house. We had someone come in and take all the loblolly pines (most of the trees were those-pulp wood) and he took them to a paper mill. I knew that if there ever was a fire, we would be lucky to get off the property in time. We also took down large oak trees (
hated to do it, but...) that were dying and clearly a threat to our house site. We kept as many hardwoods as we could, but being naive about the risks of certain trees and leaving them standing anyway is foolish.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 10, 2025, 05:16:59 PMI removed several trees from my property in the last few years. No permission needed.
Do you live in a rural area?
In Racine, you need a permit to remove a tree (with a fee, of course) unless it is in the curb easement. But even then, city approval (the government) is necessary since there must be a legitimate reason for the removal.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 10, 2025, 04:50:33 PMOnce on vacation, we met a couple from California who ran a very lucrative landscaping business. They had a number of large commercial customers (corporate campuses, etc.).
Apparently, If you want to remove a tree from your private property, you need formal permission from the government, even if it is dead. One of the reasons they did so well is that they were one of the few businesses of its type that could successfully navigate all of the paperwork involved.
I can imagine that many people do not want the bother or expense, so trees that should come down because are fire hazards remain standing.
There's no California law requiring a permit/approval to remove a tree on private property. There are some municipalities that require permits, often dependent on the type or location of the tree, across the country.
We removed a tree from our property several years back. No permit required. Some municipalities require a permit for just about anything you do to your home. Pull a permit to replace a water heater? Who does that?
Quote from: Jockey on January 10, 2025, 05:43:48 PMDo you live in a rural area?
In Racine, you need a permit to remove a tree (with a fee, of course) unless it is in the curb easement. But even then, city approval (the government) is necessary since there must be a legitimate reason for the removal.
Is the bureaucratic mess such a nightmare that you have to hire an expert to submit the paperwork?
Permitting to remove a dying tree(s) from your property is not causing 100 mph winds starting fires out of control that cannot be contained until the wind subsides. Your s*** is burning regardless
See below.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on January 10, 2025, 02:07:49 PMYou could cut down all of the trees I guess
Need to haul them away or they could be a worse fire hazard.
Quote from: NCMUFan on January 10, 2025, 09:38:31 PMNeed to haul them away or they could be a worse fire hazard.
You're not gonna cut down all the trees in a forest
Quote from: warriorchick on January 10, 2025, 05:16:59 PMI removed several trees from my property in the last few years. No permission needed.
Ditto for me here in Connecticut. No permits required. This past October I removed a bunch. After a late summer microburst left me with a half dozen snapped tree tops. I discovered a 150+ year old oak tree had rotten spots going up 40 feet and if the monster sized tree fell would have landed on my house. It was not a cheap removal.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 11, 2025, 07:24:51 AMDitto for me here in Connecticut. No permits required. This past October I removed a bunch. After a late summer microburst left me with a half dozen snapped tree tops. I discovered a 150+ year old oak tree had rotten spots going up 40 feet and if the monster sized tree fell would have landed on my house. It was not a cheap removal.
Those microbursts are SO dangerous. We had one and it snapped the upper 1/3 of a large oak tree, alternating its projected falling angle that was decisively
away from our house to
towards our house, so we had it taken down. During the same microburst, another large oak fell (as expected) directly away from our house. I watched from inside our house and neither saw nor heard the trees going down. Almost zero visibility and deafening sound of the microburst prevented that.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 10, 2025, 06:22:05 PMIs the bureaucratic mess such a nightmare that you have to hire an expert to submit the paperwork?
I live far from California. Still require permits to remove trees on private property (municipal rules, like Pakuni said). There are some nearby HOAs that have even stricter ordinances that would essentially require getting an outside expert or risk massive fines.
I know one person that had a tree come down in a storm, and they were fined heavily by their HOA for removing it without the proper steps. Getting the fines removed was a massive mess and headache.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 10, 2025, 06:07:51 PMThere's no California law requiring a permit/approval to remove a tree on private property. There are some municipalities that require permits, often dependent on the type or location of the tree, across the country.
Ype, and we can apply this response and change out the word California to Wisconsin.
I've had several trees removed from my property without a single permit.
PGA moving tournament away from Riviera for this year.
Well this isn't good.
https://bsky.app/profile/weatherwest.bsky.social/post/3lg2cnshsoi2n