1. 29-6 runs are useful.
2. Kalkbrenner on Stevie was decent strategy. Neutralized his offensive rebound EGBs.
3. 3s giveth momentum, 3s taketh away momentum.
4. Kam hot, Kam cold, as he goes, MU goes.
5. The bench with some timely contributions all over the place. Keep it up. Make Shaka sweat.
6. Ben with some weak early turnovers offsetting his exemplary defense on Kalkbrenner.
7. MU was so in sync to start the second half. Chef's kiss.
8. Take Stevie out, Cretin rights their ship. And then it was a grind.
9. Cretin still has a lot of pride and played their butts off tonight. Congratulations to Kalkbrenner on joining the 2000 point club.
10. Not a pretty win. A grind it out win with a hot streak in the middle.
11. Another step in the journey. Next!
Quote from: tower912 on January 03, 2025, 10:12:22 PM1. 29-6 runs are useful.
2. Kalkbrenner on Stevie was decent strategy. Neutralized his offensive rebound EGBs.
3. 3s giveth momentum, 3s taketh away momentum.
4. Kam hot, Kam cold, as he goes, MU goes.
5. The bench with some timely contributions all over the place. Keep it up. Make Shaka sweat.
6. Ben with some weak early turnovers offsetting his exemplary defense on Kalkbrenner.
7. MU was so in sync to start the second half. Chef's kiss.
8. Take Stevie out, Cretin rights their ship. And then it was a grind.
9. Cretin still has a lot of pride and played their butts off tonight. Congratulations to Kalkbrenner on joining the 2000 point club.
10. Not a pretty win. A grind it out win with a hot streak in the middle.
11. Another step in the journey. Next!
Lot of credit to Creighton tonight (is that allowed or was it all Marquette sucking?)
Came in desperate and played hard and well at times. McDermott had them ready in a game they really need/could use.
More credit to Marquette for finding a way to win
Hope Miletic, who was in the building, took some notes on McAndrews. He's going to be a player for Creighton.
Pretty ugly game. Once we stopped taking the available shot and started working for the good shot, good things happened.
We won.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 03, 2025, 10:13:55 PMLot of credit to Creighton tonight (is that allowed or was it all Marquette sucking?)
Came in desperate and played hard and well at times. McDermott had them ready in a game they really need/could use.
More credit to Marquette for finding a way to win
No, Creighton played with a ton of desperation and it was the best I've seen them look this year. This is a fantastic win.
Honestly, don't think we took many bad shots at all.
Stevie went cold but no issue with any of his 3's. Same with Zaide, for the most part.
The upside of this team is immense. Can absolutely grind a team into mince meat. Creighton was gassed.
The misses open shots are always going to be frustrating. But continuing to force on top of them are going to be what does us in at some point.
Cant just have stretches of Auburn evisceration. Need to keep the foot on the throat.
Also, Chase in a bit of a funk offensively the last few games. Obviously, his value defensively is off the charts.
Joplin's 1000 makes Kalk's 2000 pretty impressive and his 2000 makes McDermott's 3000 really stand out.
....oh and the game was ok. We won, CR couldn't hit real long shots or real short shots....we won.
I thought the defense on Ashworth was outstanding, especially in the first half. Stevie, Zaide and Chase guarded him for 94 feet and eventually forced others to bring the ball upcourt
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 03, 2025, 10:17:13 PMNo, Creighton played with a ton of desperation and it was the best I've seen them look this year. This is a fantastic win.
Kalkbrenner missed like 6 bunnies and Ashworth was 1/13 from 3.
Neal and McAndrew played well.
It seemed apparent that McDermott coached his team to give Stevie and Zaide the open 3, and for the most part it worked for them.
Shaka sat Stevie for far too long in a game where he was awesome, and Creighton made him pay and it became a bit close for comfort.
Joplin with some massive defensive plays. Him and Benny played solid defense for the most part
Any win the the Big East is a good win. I consider Creighton one of the better programs so I'll take it.
Excellent win. Creighton played well tonight and our guys found ways to win. Our whole team played hard 40 minutes and that is what takes to win these conference games.
A side note, Ashworth is very quick and we really missed having JTY who could offset that quickness.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 03, 2025, 10:19:43 PMHonestly, don't think we took many bad shots at all.
Stevie went cold but no issue with any of his 3's. Same with Zaide, for the most part.
Yep. They took, and missed, a ton of open 3s.
7 different players made a three though, so thats good.
If this years team can figure out a way to shoot 35+% from 3 it will be a force to be reckoned with because of the way it defends and rebounds, compared to previous versions
Quote from: Herman Cain on January 03, 2025, 10:29:30 PMExcellent win. Creighton played well tonight and our guys found ways to win. Our whole team played hard 40 minutes and that is what takes to win these conference games.
A side note, Ashworth is very quick and we really missed having JTY who could offset that quickness.
Ashworth shot 4-18 and 1-13 from 3. Guess Sean could have forced another TO or two.
Offensive rating was 94. Pretty meh
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 03, 2025, 10:31:25 PMAshworth shot 4-18 and 1-13 from 3. Guess Sean could have forced another TO or two
Yeah. "Quickness" was not an issue whatsoever with Ashworth. He looked scared to dribble more often than he was able to break the MU defense down.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 03, 2025, 10:25:38 PMI thought the defense on Ashworth was outstanding, especially in the first half. Stevie, Zaide and Chase guarded him for 94 feet and eventually forced others to bring the ball upcourt
No doubt..Ashworth had to work his ass of all game and that's a load to do what he does for their team. 1-13 was the byproduct of being lit up all game.
Kudos to Creighton though - they played incredibly hard and showed a lot of grit. I really thought we'd win this one fairly comfortably, and it wasn't.
Interesting that we started the same guys last March against Creighton and though we played tough, it felt like we were handicapped. This year we handled them. Lots of growth in that time period.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 03, 2025, 10:19:43 PMHonestly, don't think we took many bad shots at all.
Stevie went cold but no issue with any of his 3's. Same with Zaide, for the most part.
Most were wide open looks.
Quote from: Herman Cain on January 03, 2025, 10:29:30 PMAshworth is very quick and we really missed having JTY who could offset that quickness.
Herm, did you watch this game?
Quote from: wadesworld on January 03, 2025, 10:33:58 PMYeah. "Quickness" was not an issue whatsoever with Ashworth. He looked scared to dribble more often than he was able to break the MU defense down.
I suppose Sean helps disrupt Ashworth initiating the offense, he did have 10 dimes, but that's ok if he's unable to get good looks at buckets
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 03, 2025, 10:13:55 PMLot of credit to Creighton tonight (is that allowed or was it all Marquette sucking?)
Came in desperate and played hard and well at times. McDermott had them ready in a game they really need/could use.
More credit to Marquette for finding a way to win
Kudos to Creighton for making Marquette earn this one.
SO glad Creighton's 3 point shooting % was not great. Ballsy shot by Jop near the end. Totally agree with "more credit to Marquette for finding a way to win."
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 03, 2025, 10:37:16 PMHerm, did you watch this game?
Was the NYpost live streaming it?
Quote from: Herman Cain on January 03, 2025, 10:29:30 PMAshworth is very quick and we really missed having JTY who could offset that quickness.
Herm, did you watch this game?
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 03, 2025, 10:35:10 PMInteresting that we started the same guys last March against Creighton and though we played tough, it felt like we were handicapped. This year we handled them. Lots of growth in that time period.
Did you all hear the announcer say that MU has started only 8 different players in the last three seasons? Stunning. Says a lot about Shaka's plan. And kudos to Todd Smith for helping keep the guys healthy.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 03, 2025, 10:39:17 PMKudos to Creighton for making Marquette earn this one. SO glad Creighton's 3 point shooting % was not great. Ballsy shot by Jop near the end. Totally agree with "more credit to Marquette for finding a way to win."
Would prefer a lot more blowouts but with Marquette near the top of the league, bubble teams are going to have to steal wins against them. They'll have to learn that each night won't be a cakewalk without Muggsy like execution being executed
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 03, 2025, 10:35:10 PMInteresting that we started the same guys last March against Creighton and though we played tough, it felt like we were handicapped. This year we handled them. Lots of growth in that time period.
It helps when you're at home and the opponent lost its 2 best players. But yeah I guess.
I agree with Stevie being on the bench too long, but he looked gassed in the middle of the second half.
Gutty win. It is fun seeing guys like Lowery progress and play very meaningful minutes.
Some great timely putbacks in this game by Zaide, Owens and Stevie.
Kalk was a force defensively and takes us out of our comfort zone down low. Have to hit those open threes more consistently in these types of games.
I'll take the BE win and run! Fun game! That said, CU(Kalk) missed a ton of bunnies and MU couldn't hit the broad side of the barn (Stewie/Zadie 3-15) when Kaulks's assignment was left wiiiiide open. As an opposing Coach, why WOULDNT you leave Zaide, Stevie, Tre, Caden, Jop open all game long?? I'm afraid this team is easy to guard vs S16/E8-caliber teams in March. That said, I sure hope Im wrong then, and will absolutely enjoy the ride as we get there!!
All week, I knew the whistle was coming, but when you see body checks under the rim go uncalled, offensive push offs on every possession go uncalled (Ashworth flails that off arm around like a tube man), moving screens uncalled, hand checks uncalled, travels uncalled, man they are frustrating to play against.
It isn't that they don't foul. They do. Kalkbrenner does. The refs just don't call it.
Shaka lit into both James Breeding and Tim Clougherty on separate instances for about 45 seconds each. The Clougherty one, I'm pretty sure he called the timeout just to yell at him because he spent all of it in his face. Never seen him so incensed.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 03, 2025, 11:14:54 PMAll week, I knew the whistle was coming, but when you see body checks under the rim go uncalled, offensive push offs on every possession go uncalled (Ashworth flails that off arm around like a tube man), moving screens uncalled, hand checks uncalled, travels uncalled, man they are frustrating to play against.
It isn't that they don't foul. They do. Kalkbrenner does. The refs just don't call it.
Shaka lit into both James Breeding and Tim Clougherty on separate instances for about 45 seconds each. The Clougherty one, I'm pretty sure he called the timeout just to yell at him because he spent all of it in his face. Never seen him so incensed.
m
That was the closest I've seen Shaka to a T. I thought he was for sure getting one.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 03, 2025, 10:15:43 PMHope Miletic, who was in the building, took some notes on McAndrews. He's going to be a player for Creighton.
Pretty ugly game. Once we stopped taking the available shot and started working for the good shot, good things happened.
He also looked a lot bigger on the court than I expected him to. He was a presence.
Quote from: mug644 on January 03, 2025, 10:40:20 PMDid you all hear the announcer say that MU has started only 8 different players in the last three seasons? Stunning. Says a lot about Shaka's plan. And kudos to Todd Smith for helping keep the guys healthy.
See those starters at muoverload.com > Starting Lineups
Jop's 3 at the end was a classic dagger, just a huge shot, but man he has mostly lost his touch from 3.
Despite all of MU's frustrations from 3 tonight - Creighton literally was daring any Marquette player to shoot open 3s (even Kam a couple times) - we actually shot it better than Creighton did. Ashworth undoubtedly was exhausted; it's not easy to hit the 25-footers he kept having to take when your legs are dead from having Stevie or Chase or Zaide draped all over you.
Kalkbrenner was his typical self. Bad Blk% tonight but he definitely affected the ability of Kam, Stevie and Jop to take it inside. But he was so soft offensively. If I were a Creighton fan, I think I would have been screaming, "You've been playing college ball for 14 years - dunk it, you big dope!"
Most teams don't have a rim-protector even close to Kalkbrenner. I'll take my chances on our guys making shots from the paint against most teams.
Creighton came in with a big turnover problem and I thought we'd feast on them there. Got a few during our big run, but they mostly took good care of the ball and that's what I give them credit for most.
Stevie plays so hard that he needs some bench time if he's gonna be able to excel at winning time. Shaka didn't forget about him; he just wanted Stevie to be fresh at the end.
We got nothing offensively from Ross, little from Gold, not much from Jop (until his dagger), not a ton from our bench, and hardly anything from Kam in the first half. And yet we beat a desperate team that mostly executed its game plan on both sides of the ball.
Marquette's a damn good team!
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 03, 2025, 10:25:38 PMI thought the defense on Ashworth was outstanding, especially in the first half. Stevie, Zaide and Chase guarded him for 94 feet and eventually forced others to bring the ball upcourt
Even more impressive given how many walks Ashworth was allowed to have. Hard to guard a dude when he can just change pivot feet.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on January 04, 2025, 12:23:01 AMEven more impressive given how many walks Ashworth was allowed to have. Hard to guard a dude when he can just change pivot feet.
I thought I was losing my mind, but I counted like 4 times. Ridiculous
Question on the time out granted when Ashworth was falling out of bounds...
I was under the belief that a player couldn't call timeout when falling out of bounds. Is that just for an airborne player? He did have one foot planted inbounds as he was falling out of bounds.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 03, 2025, 10:19:43 PMHonestly, don't think we took many bad shots at all.
Stevie went cold but no issue with any of his 3's. Same with Zaide, for the most part.
When the other team is making a run, any three by a non-starter is a bad shot. Our bench takes too many early in the shot clock.
I'm glad Kalkbrenner finally got called for a moving screen. Felt like they got away with a lot of those.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 03, 2025, 10:45:17 PMIt helps when you're at home and the opponent lost its 2 best players. But yeah I guess.
Exactly. We were shorthanded and on the road last year. This year it was them.
We deserved credit for playing them tough last year. They deserve the same this time around.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 03, 2025, 11:37:28 PMSee those starters at muoverload.com > Starting Lineups
The amazing thing about the 8 number over the last three years is that 5 are currently starting and the remaining three are in the NBA.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 03, 2025, 11:14:54 PMAll week, I knew the whistle was coming, but when you see body checks under the rim go uncalled, offensive push offs on every possession go uncalled (Ashworth flails that off arm around like a tube man), moving screens uncalled, hand checks uncalled, travels uncalled, man they are frustrating to play against.
It isn't that they don't foul. They do. Kalkbrenner does. The refs just don't call it.
Shaka lit into both James Breeding and Tim Clougherty on separate instances for about 45 seconds each. The Clougherty one, I'm pretty sure he called the timeout just to yell at him because he spent all of it in his face. Never seen him so incensed.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 03, 2025, 11:14:54 PMAll week, I knew the whistle was coming, but when you see body checks under the rim go uncalled, offensive push offs on every possession go uncalled (Ashworth flails that off arm around like a tube man), moving screens uncalled, hand checks uncalled, travels uncalled, man they are frustrating to play against.
It isn't that they don't foul. They do. Kalkbrenner does. The refs just don't call it.
Shaka lit into both James Breeding and Tim Clougherty on separate instances for about 45 seconds each. The Clougherty one, I'm pretty sure he called the timeout just to yell at him because he spent all of it in his face. Never seen him so incensed.
This exactly. McDermott does a great job of working the refs and it pays off. Ashworth flails all over the place and you just can't even touch Kalk.
I need to look up CU's defensive efficiency numbers under McDermott before and after Kalk's arrival. They could be in for a rude awakening next year.
Creighton is hands down the most annoying team and 2nd most annoying fan base in the league (hard to top PC). Always good to get a win against them. Will have to play significantly better to win in Omaha though.
I try very hard to stay clear of blaming the refs, but last night the officiating was exceptionally bad. ::)
Really nice summary by 82. I think he's auditioning for Tower's post-game job.
Creighton actually did us a favor by challenging Marquette last night. In a sense, it was a double win.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 04, 2025, 09:55:41 AMI try very hard to stay clear of blaming the refs, but last night the officiating was exceptionally bad. ::)
Really nice summary by 82. I think he's auditioning for Tower's post-game job.
Creighton actually did us a favor by challenging Marquette last night. In a sense, it was a double win.
I think Marquette is going to see teams challenge them that way the rest of the season.
It's still relatively early to use these numbers, but Marquette is 13th in Adjusted O in KenPom. Only UConn at 2 and Nova at 7 are better in conference. You have to go down to St.John's at 38 to find the next most efficient BE O. Offense in the league isn't special outside the top 3 of UConn, Nova and MU.
And the defenses aren't any better. Only St. John's is better than MU. The Johnnies are 10th, MU 11. You drop to GTown at 31 to find the next BE team.
This screams to me, muck it up against Marquette.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 04, 2025, 10:02:47 AMI think Marquette is going to see teams challenge them that way the rest of the season.
It's still relatively early to use these numbers, but Marquette is 13th in Adjusted O in KenPom. Only UConn at 2 and Nova at 7 are better in conference. You have to go down to St.John's at 38 to find the next most efficient BE O. Offense in the league isn't special outside the top 3 of UConn, Nova and MU.
And the defenses aren't any better. Only St. John's is better than MU. The Johnnies are 10th, MU 11. You drop to GTown at 31 to find the next BE team.
This screams to me, muck it up against Marquette.
Perhaps this year's BE is just filled with muck.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on January 04, 2025, 10:05:26 AMPerhaps this year's BE is just filled with muck.
That's probably a better way to sum it up
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 04, 2025, 09:55:41 AMReally nice summary by 82. I think he's auditioning for Tower's post-game job
He can have it. Smarter and more coherent than I am. Talk to the mods about transferring my stipend to him.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 03, 2025, 11:24:39 PMHe also looked a lot bigger on the court than I expected him to. He was a presence.
Yeah, McAndrew is good. Thankfully will likely only have to worry about him once next year when the Badgers get their NIL sorted out and throw a huge bag at him.
Ben Steele recap, worth it as always:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2025/01/03/marquette-vs-creighton-probable-starters-tv-info-and-prediction-for-big-east-game-at-fiserv-forum/77428812007/
"MU knew that Bluejays coach Greg McDermott would probably stash Kalkbrenner on a low-usage offensive player."
Perfectly normal statement to make about the 3-time defending DPOY.
Actually, perfect logic. Allows him to do his drop coverage and clog the middle, which is what he does best. If Stevie was say 5-9 from 3, it would have killed that strategy. As it was it allowed kalkbrenner to muck up the lane, block shots, and neutralize Thievies offensive rebounding EGBs.
Quote from: barfolomew on January 04, 2025, 10:30:39 AMBen Steele recap, worth it as always:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2025/01/03/marquette-vs-creighton-probable-starters-tv-info-and-prediction-for-big-east-game-at-fiserv-forum/77428812007/
"MU knew that Bluejays coach Greg McDermott would probably stash Kalkbrenner on a low-usage offensive player."
Perfectly normal statement to make about the 3-time defending DPOY.
Kalk as DPOY is like the shortstop with no range but leads the league in fielding percentage because he never gets an error selling out for anything. But generally baseball writers don't give the GG to those sorts...but cbb writers seem to.
Kudos to Ben for presenting the right narrative.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 04, 2025, 09:55:41 AMReally nice summary by 82. I think he's auditioning for Tower's post-game job.
If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve.
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2025, 10:40:47 AMIf nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve.
Sorry, you were drafted. Report to MEPS in the morning
Quote from: JakeBarnes on January 04, 2025, 10:41:48 AMSorry, you were drafted. Report to MEPS in the morning
I just sometimes like to riff off tower's prose. We're like Simon and Garfunkle, or Steve Martin and Martin Short, or Thelma and Louise.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 03, 2025, 11:14:54 PMAll week, I knew the whistle was coming, but when you see body checks under the rim go uncalled, offensive push offs on every possession go uncalled (Ashworth flails that off arm around like a tube man), moving screens uncalled, hand checks uncalled, travels uncalled, man they are frustrating to play against.
It isn't that they don't foul. They do. Kalkbrenner does. The refs just don't call it.
Shaka lit into both James Breeding and Tim Clougherty on separate instances for about 45 seconds each. The Clougherty one, I'm pretty sure he called the timeout just to yell at him because he spent all of it in his face. Never seen him so incensed.
Going into the game last night, Kalk had been called for 12 fouls in 13 games. He was whistled for 3 last night.
He is getting the Madison treatment from Refs. He and his teammates do get away with a lot. A couple of Bronx cheers last night when Creighton was called for a foul.
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2025, 10:44:17 AMI just sometimes like to riff off tower's prose. We're like Simon and Garfunkle, or Steve Martin and Martin Short, or Thelma and Louise.
Al and Peg Bundy.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on January 04, 2025, 10:38:05 AMKalk as DPOY is like the shortstop with no range but leads the league in fielding percentage because he never gets an error selling out for anything. But generally baseball writers don't give the GG to those sorts...but cbb writers seem to.
Kudos to Ben for presenting the right narrative.
I typically thought that, but there were a number of times where we were driving to the hoop and basically picked up our dribble or made a tough pass out due to him being in the lane. The stats might not have shown it, but he was definitely a presence.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kam's slow start had to do with him being on the floor. Even if it was just a mental hurdle he had to get over.
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2025, 10:40:47 AMIf nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve.
Nice!
I'm a history buff and got a big laugh out of James Garfield's treatment at the Republican Convention. He made it very clear that he did NOT want the nomination, but the delegates began voting for him anyway, so he objected to the chairman that never agreed to be a nominee. The chairman replied "Overruled! (gavel banged) The gentleman from Ohio will take his seat!"
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 04, 2025, 11:10:26 AMI typically thought that, but there were a number of times where we were driving to the hoop and basically picked up our dribble or made a tough pass out due to him being in the lane. The stats might not have shown it, but he was definitely a presence.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kam's slow start had to do with him being on the floor. Even if it was just a mental hurdle he had to get over.
Correct. He definitely changed our offensive flow with his presence.
That CU strategy works when we can't hit our threes. Reason why Tre played such limited minutes. If Zaide or Stevie could have hit a few more of those wide open looks, this game would have been a blow out.
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2025, 10:44:17 AMI just sometimes like to riff off tower's prose. We're like Simon and Garfunkle, or Steve Martin and Martin Short, or Thelma and Louise.
Kam and Stewie, Shaka and Dan Hurley, Ners and Wadesworld...
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on January 04, 2025, 12:59:12 PMKam and Stewie, Shaka and Dan Hurley, Ners and Wadesworld...
No no no. I am not worthy of being mentioned in the same breath with Ners.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 04, 2025, 01:32:07 PMNo no no. I am not worthy of being mentioned in the same breath with Ners.
Pathetic vertical you have there
Quote from: wadesworld on January 04, 2025, 01:32:07 PMNo no no. I am not worthy of being mentioned in the same breath with Ners.
I bet you have never dunked
Quote from: barfolomew on January 04, 2025, 10:30:39 AMBen Steele recap, worth it as always:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2025/01/03/marquette-vs-creighton-probable-starters-tv-info-and-prediction-for-big-east-game-at-fiserv-forum/77428812007/
"MU knew that Bluejays coach Greg McDermott would probably stash Kalkbrenner on a low-usage offensive player."
Perfectly normal statement to make about the 3-time defending DPOY.
Yes? Dpoy has nothing to do with offense.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on January 04, 2025, 01:40:23 PMPathetic vertical you have there
Getting a little personal, aren't you. And how do you know?
Quote from: wadesworld on January 04, 2025, 01:44:52 PMI never dunk. I only get dunked on. By Ners.
The only dunking I do is dunking a biscotti in my coffee. It isn't worthy coffee though because it's not snooty Kona Peaberry like Muggsy's.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on January 03, 2025, 10:23:43 PMJoplin's 1000 makes Kalk's 2000 pretty impressive and his 2000 makes McDermott's 3000 really stand out.
3150 in four years for Dougie McBuckets too.
And the Mom's Night and the shirts with the moms were an awesome idea by MU!
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 04, 2025, 10:13:02 AMYeah, McAndrew is good. Thankfully will likely only have to worry about him once next year when the Badgers get their NIL sorted out and throw a huge bag at him.
Do not underestimate Creighton's NIL operation.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 04, 2025, 02:11:45 PMGetting a little personal, aren't you. And how do you know?
Wades and I used to street race for Pink Slips back in the mid 90s on Fond Du Lac ave. We go way back.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2025, 10:36:00 AMActually, perfect logic. Allows him to do his drop coverage and clog the middle, which is what he does best. If Stevie was say 5-9 from 3, it would have killed that strategy. As it was it allowed kalkbrenner to muck up the lane, block shots, and neutralize Thievies offensive rebounding EGBs.
Kalk had 0 blocks.
It was nice to see Ashworth take a break from his job playing Jamie in Progressive ads to go 1/13 from 3 against us.
Twice, Gold decided to drive into the lane. And twice, he committed turnovers.
I know some folks have said they want to see him do more than shoot 3s, and I think there are opportunities to cut to the hoop to receive passes, but I'm not a big fan of him putting his head down and trying to drive around or through traffic too often.
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2025, 09:50:06 PMTwice, Gold decided to drive into the lane. And twice, he committed turnovers.
I know some folks have said they want to see him do more than shoot 3s, and I think there are opportunities to cut to the hoop to receive passes, but I'm not a big fan of him putting his head down and trying to drive around or through traffic too often.
Even when Ben is not driving to the basket, he seems to be a somewhat easy target for opponents getting a turnover. I think sometimes he focuses too much on looking for an open teammate and then is an easy target. I like Ben, but like just about any player, he has vulnerabilities.
Yes, he does. And progress isn't always linear. Clearly, the coaches want him to handle the ball, move the defense, and get to the next action, either a drive to the basket or a dish to an open teammate after the defender moves. Right now, we are watching the sausage get made in regards to that. Some ugly TO's. But the only way to get better is to do it.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 05, 2025, 08:07:39 AMEven when Ben is not driving to the basket, he seems to be a somewhat easy target for opponents getting a turnover. I think sometimes he focuses too much on looking for an open teammate and then is an easy target. I like Ben, but like just about any player, he has vulnerabilities.
Bens TO% is 14.1. 4th best on the team after Kam, Stevie, and Royce (who shoots the ball within 1 second of catching it). Bens had more games with 0 turnovers than games with multiple TOs. He had a bad two minutes against Creighton, otherwise being an easy target for TOs is not an accurate statement about Ben.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 05, 2025, 08:34:54 AMBens TO% is 14.1. 4th best on the team after Kam, Stevie, and Royce (who shoots the ball within 1 second of catching it). Bens had more games with 0 turnovers than games with multiple TOs. He had a bad two minutes against Creighton, otherwise being an easy target for TOs is not an accurate statement about Ben.
Counterpoint:
Willie said Gold is becoming the golden turnover machine
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 05, 2025, 08:34:54 AMBens TO% is 14.1. 4th best on the team after Kam, Stevie, and Royce (who shoots the ball within 1 second of catching it). Bens had more games with 0 turnovers than games with multiple TOs. He had a bad two minutes against Creighton, otherwise being an easy target for TOs is not an accurate statement about Ben.
Facts have no chance vs the eye test and recency bias.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 05, 2025, 08:34:54 AMBens TO% is 14.1. 4th best on the team after Kam, Stevie, and Royce (who shoots the ball within 1 second of catching it). Bens had more games with 0 turnovers than games with multiple TOs. He had a bad two minutes against Creighton, otherwise being an easy target for TOs is not an accurate statement about Ben.
Thanks. I focused too much on his Creighton TO's without checking the stats.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 05, 2025, 08:34:54 AMBens TO% is 14.1. 4th best on the team after Kam, Stevie, and Royce (who shoots the ball within 1 second of catching it). Bens had more games with 0 turnovers than games with multiple TOs. He had a bad two minutes against Creighton, otherwise being an easy target for TOs is not an accurate statement about Ben.
Question about TO pct: It doesn't take into account the amount of time a player actually has the basketball in his hands, does it?
I ask because Ben doesn't have the ball a lot, and when he does, it's usually to catch and shoot a 3. It would seem he doesn't have all that many opportunities to commit turnovers ... except the rare occasions when he puts his head down and drives into traffic.
FWIW, I am not one who says Gold has become "an easy target for TOs." I'm just not a fan of him dribbling into an area occupied by multiple defenders who appreciate it when a high-dribbling 6-11 guy enters their space.
But maybe Shaka wants him to do exactly that. As tower said: "The only way to get better is to do it."
It is the next step in his progression in his growth pillar.
Multiple things can be true. He doesn't turn the ball over much and he had a couple of ugly ones Friday night are both true.
Quote from: tower912 on January 05, 2025, 10:24:26 AMIt is the next step in his progression in his growth pillar.
Multiple things can be true. He doesn't turn the ball over much and he had a couple of ugly ones Friday night are both true.
One thing that appears to be true is that he doesn't quite seem super comfortable with the ball in his hands and dribbling the basketball, especially into the lane and into traffic. At least not yet...
Oso, Royce, and even Caedin (even though he doesn't play much) seem more comfortable in that role/scenario
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 03, 2025, 10:35:10 PMInteresting that we started the same guys last March against Creighton and though we played tough, it felt like we were handicapped. This year we handled them. Lots of growth in that time period.
Much different Creighton team though
Quote from: MU82 on January 05, 2025, 10:23:15 AMQuestion about TO pct: It doesn't take into account the amount of time a player actually has the basketball in his hands, does it?
I ask because Ben doesn't have the ball a lot, and when he does, it's usually to catch and shoot a 3. It would seem he doesn't have all that many opportunities to commit turnovers ... except the rare occasions when he puts his head down and drives into traffic.
FWIW, I am not one who says Gold has become "an easy target for TOs." I'm just not a fan of him dribbling into an area occupied by multiple defenders who appreciate it when a high-dribbling 6-11 guy enters their space.
But maybe Shaka wants him to do exactly that. As tower said: "The only way to get better is to do it."
It doesn't take a literal second by second account, but it takes into account a players usage so it accounts for Ben being a low usage player.
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Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 05, 2025, 08:34:54 AMBens TO% is 14.1. 4th best on the team after Kam, Stevie, and Royce (who shoots the ball within 1 second of catching it). Bens had more games with 0 turnovers than games with multiple TOs. He had a bad two minutes against Creighton, otherwise being an easy target for TOs is not an accurate statement about Ben.
Ben turned it over three times at Dayton, including a stretch late with back to back giveaways. Other than that game and Creighton on Friday, he's been reliable with the basketball.
Quote from: MuMark on January 05, 2025, 11:48:03 AMMuch different Creighton team though
Yeah, it was a bit of a stretch to bring that one full circle.
MU/CU game, coaches didn't do the Lou sweaters.
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2025, 09:50:06 PMTwice, Gold decided to drive into the lane. And twice, he committed turnovers.
I know some folks have said they want to see him do more than shoot 3s, and I think there are opportunities to cut to the hoop to receive passes, but I'm not a big fan of him putting his head down and trying to drive around or through traffic too often.
Two different turnovers. The first, a high dribble in the lane seemingly going nowhere.
The second is more concerning because he has done this several times this year and gotten away with it.
When Ben gets stuck at the FT line he often turns and throws it out to a guard 30' from the basket. Several times this year, the ball has been tipped by the opponent, but our guard recovers.
Since this bad pass is only tipped and not stolen, it is not considered a TO and of course doesn't impact his TO rate.
However, in the CU game, his bad pass did result in a TO.
Quote from: tower912 on January 05, 2025, 01:22:28 PMMU/CU game, coaches didn't do the Lou sweaters.
I was disappointed by this. It was a cool tribute from the league. No idea why it didn't happen but I'd have liked it to.
Quote from: DoctorV on January 03, 2025, 10:26:08 PMKalkbrenner missed like 6 bunnies and Ashworth was 1/13 from 3.
Neal and McAndrew played well.
It seemed apparent that McDermott coached his team to give Stevie and Zaide the open 3, and for the most part it worked for them.
Shaka sat Stevie for far too long in a game where he was awesome, and Creighton made him pay and it became a bit close for comfort.
Joplin with some massive defensive plays. Him and Benny played solid defense for the most part
agreed, except I feel Gold was not good on D. He's beat, often. Fortunately Kalk and Ashworth were off. Maybe our guys had something to do with that. Regardless, a solid W in the bank.
Quote from: Viper on January 05, 2025, 08:17:57 PMagreed, except I feel Gold was not good on D. He's beat, often. Fortunately Kalk and Ashworth were off. Maybe our guys had something to do with that. Regardless, a solid W in the bank.
Ben got beat twice on switches but did an awesome job battling with Kalkbrenner and denying easy post catches.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 05, 2025, 08:45:48 PMBen got beat twice on switches but did an awesome job battling with Kalkbrenner and denying easy post catches.
Yes, Other than last layup on the inbound, Ben did a really good job on Kalkbrenner. Switches led to mismatcheds, as they are designed to, and Kalkbrenner did most of his damage on those.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 05, 2025, 12:01:39 PMIt doesn't take a literal second by second account, but it takes into account a players usage so it accounts for Ben being a low usage player.
Thanks for the response, TAMU.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 05, 2025, 08:45:48 PMBen got beat twice on switches but did an awesome job battling with Kalkbrenner and denying easy post catches.
I guess I missed Ben's defense you alude to. I'll pay more attention to Gold's work on D next game. I did see Kalkbrenner miss what, 5 or 6 pt blank gimmies after receiving a low past entry pass.
Quote from: Viper on January 06, 2025, 07:50:16 AMI guess I missed Ben's defense you alude to. I'll pay more attention to Gold's work on D next game. I did see Kalkbrenner miss what, 5 or 6 pt blank gimmies after receiving a low past entry pass.
A lot of those came off switches. The better argument might be whether MU switched too much, leaving Ben on the perimeter and Chase on Kalkbrenner.
Quote from: MU82 on January 05, 2025, 10:23:15 AMQuestion about TO pct: It doesn't take into account the amount of time a player actually has the basketball in his hands, does it?
Here's the quick rundown as I understand it. Jay Bee can correct if I'm off on any of this, but I think it will explain it:
- Usage Rate: The number of possessions that end with that player. This includes a possession ending via a made shot, a shot that is rebounded by the other team, drawing a foul and going to the free throw line, a turnover, an offensive foul (also leading to a turnover), a held ball going to the other team, basically anything where the possession ends and the opposing team gets the ball. So if a player is involved in 40 offensive possessions, makes 4 shots from the field, misses 2 that are rebounded by the defense, goes to the free throw line 1 time, and turns it over one time (8 combined possessions) he would have a 20% usage rate. This assumes the other 30 possessions end with his teammates doing one of those things.
- Turnover Rate: The percentage of an individual's possessions that end in a turnover. So in the above example, the player turned it over once in 8 possessions, giving him a 12.5% turnover rate. This is different from team turnover rate, which takes all turnovers compared against all offensive possessions.
Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2025, 08:13:46 AMA lot of those came off switches. The better argument might be whether MU switched too much, leaving Ben on the perimeter and Chase on Kalkbrenner.
Yep, Ben played well against Kalk, Chase played well against Neal. Ben was woefully exposed against Neal, and anyone not named Ben was bad against Kalk. Only times that happened were when a switch happened or when Kalk would just straight up beat Royce down the floor.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 06, 2025, 08:17:51 AMHere's the quick rundown as I understand it. Jay Bee can correct if I'm off on any of this, but I think it will explain it:
- Usage Rate: The number of possessions that end with that player. This includes a possession ending via a made shot, a shot that is rebounded by the other team, drawing a foul and going to the free throw line, a turnover, an offensive foul (also leading to a turnover), a held ball going to the other team, basically anything where the possession ends and the opposing team gets the ball. So if a player is involved in 40 offensive possessions, makes 4 shots from the field, misses 2 that are rebounded by the defense, goes to the free throw line 1 time, and turns it over one time (8 combined possessions) he would have a 20% usage rate. This assumes the other 30 possessions end with his teammates doing one of those things.
- Turnover Rate: The percentage of an individual's possessions that end in a turnover. So in the above example, the player turned it over once in 8 possessions, giving him a 12.5% turnover rate. This is different from team turnover rate, which takes all turnovers compared against all offensive possessions.
Thanks. Again, I don't think Gold is a turnover machine. As a Marquette basketball fan, I simply don't think him driving into a lane filled with defenders is the best recipe for a successful possession.
Quote from: MU82 on January 06, 2025, 09:56:50 AMThanks. Again, I don't think Gold is a turnover machine. As a Marquette basketball fan, I simply don't think him driving into a lane filled with defenders is the best recipe for a successful possession.
I don't disagree, though that was also the case with Joplin and after the past few weeks that doesn't scare me as much. We have seen Ben put it on the floor and get to the rim in the past. If we can spread teams out and he has a mismatch, I'm okay with him taking that chance, but I agree it's not good against a packed lane.
Like in Joplin's case I believe Ben driving wouldn't be happening if Shaka didn't want it to happen.
Fair points, brewski and Newsie.
Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2025, 08:13:46 AMA lot of those came off switches. The better argument might be whether MU switched too much, leaving Ben on the perimeter and Chase on Kalkbrenner.
I've never cared for the Ben on perimeter D. A good pg chews that up. Maybe Shaka saw something where he felt the disruption was worth it.
Quote from: Viper on January 06, 2025, 01:29:28 PMI've never cared for the Ben on perimeter D. A good pg chews that up. Maybe Shaka saw something where he felt the disruption was worth it.
Nope. It is just his system. There have been games (Maryland comes to mind) where Ben and Joplin stayed on the bigs more. They switched more against Creighton, IMO to never give Ashworth space or let him breathe. 1-13 from 3.
Quote from: Viper on January 06, 2025, 01:29:28 PMI've never cared for the Ben on perimeter D. A good pg chews that up. Maybe Shaka saw something where he felt the disruption was worth it.
Gold is actually quite good at it, as was Oso. The trouble comes if the other team has a very tall center with some ability. Against most teams, it works pretty darn well, which is why Shaka keeps doing it. And it ended up OK against Creighton, too, as their perimeter players (especially Ashworth) were obviously bothered by the many different defenders who went at them.