Saturday at 11AM.
Christmas Eve at 5PM.
Perfect timing for all the old folks in here that are currently dreaming of a trip back to the Final 4....
So, no excuses, two great opportunities to watch Marquette play in great road environments.
All kidding aside, these are two of the hardest places to play in the BE, and we get them from now until Santa shows up...
So, what will it be, what will be under the Christmas tree?
2-0 for me, but not without a partridge in a pear tree!
I think we win @Providence. Coin flip @Xavier after watching them put up a great fight against UConn tonight.
I'll leave with these thoughts:
I think the team we have this season is better than the 2012-13 Elite 8 team (Gardner, Blue, Juan Anderson)
I think the team we have this season is better than the 2002-03 Final Four team (Wade, Diener, Novak)
I think the 2018-19 MU team is the best MU team ever since 2000. But this year's team is a close 2nd or 3rd.
Open to everyone's thoughts ;)
Quote from: MountainCreekHouse on December 18, 2024, 11:37:30 PMI think we win @Providence. Coin flip @Xavier after watching them put up a great fight against UConn tonight.
I'll leave with these thoughts:
I think the team we have this season is better than the 2012-13 Elite 8 team (Gardner, Blue, Juan Anderson)
I think the team we have this season is better than the 2002-03 Final Four team (Wade, Diener, Novak)
I think the 2018-19 MU team is the best MU team ever since 2000. But this year's team is a close 2nd or 3rd.
Open to everyone's thoughts ;)
Glad to have you back, Wojo!
Quote from: DoctorV on December 18, 2024, 11:22:36 PMSaturday at 11AM.
Christmas Eve at 5PM.
Perfect timing for all the old folks in here that are currently dreaming of a trip back to the Final 4....
So, no excuses, two great opportunities to watch Marquette play in great road environments.
All kidding aside, these are two of the hardest places to play in the BE, and we get them from now until Santa shows up...
So, what will it be, what will be under the Christmas tree?
2-0 for me, but not without a partridge in a pear tree!
New Year's Eve @ Providence?
Quote from: DoctorV on December 18, 2024, 11:22:36 PMSaturday at 11AM.
Christmas Eve at 5PM.
Perfect timing for all the old folks in here that are currently dreaming of a trip back to the Final 4....
So, no excuses, two great opportunities to watch Marquette play in great road environments.
All kidding aside, these are two of the hardest places to play in the BE, and we get them from now until Santa shows up...
So, what will it be, what will be under the Christmas tree?
2-0 for me, but not without a partridge in a pear tree!
Sorry to nitpick but I'd say UConn and Providence are the two toughest BE environments currently; the former now has 22-straight home wins. And Kam & Stevie have both said on record they think UConn is the hardest place to play at.
But I agree with you. Though 2-0 will be tough, we're the better team in both matchups and should get it done.
Quote from: DoctorV on December 18, 2024, 11:22:36 PMSaturday at 11AM.
Christmas Eve at 5PM.
Perfect timing for all the old folks in here that are currently dreaming of a trip back to the Final 4....
So, no excuses, two great opportunities to watch Marquette play in great road environments.
All kidding aside, these are two of the hardest places to play in the BE, and we get them from now until Santa shows up...
So, what will it be, what will be under the Christmas tree?
2-0 for me, but not without a partridge in a pear tree!
Our Santa comes at midnight on December 24, not December 31.
Quote from: MountainCreekHouse on December 18, 2024, 11:37:30 PMI think we win @Providence. Coin flip @Xavier after watching them put up a great fight against UConn tonight.
I'll leave with these thoughts:
I think the team we have this season is better than the 2012-13 Elite 8 team (Gardner, Blue, Juan Anderson)
I think the team we have this season is better than the 2002-03 Final Four team (Wade, Diener, Novak)
I think the 2018-19 MU team is the best MU team ever since 2000. But this year's team is a close 2nd or 3rd.
Open to everyone's thoughts ;)
Both tough games that can be won or lost.
If MU shoots 10% from 3 like they did for most of last night they will lose both.
Quote from: K1 Lover on December 19, 2024, 12:05:03 AMSorry to nitpick but I'd say UConn and Providence are the two toughest BE environments currently; the former now has 22-straight home wins. And Kam & Stevie have both said on record they think UConn is the hardest place to play at.
But I agree with you. Though 2-0 will be tough, we're the better team in both matchups and should get it done.
Respectfully, disagree about Providence. Creighton is a much better home environment.
Yes. It was refreshing to see MU have a 3 point clunker game and get the win anyway.
Xavier impressed me. I will not be watching it live, instead celebrating Christmas with the extended family.
Quote from: tower912 on December 19, 2024, 06:23:48 AMYes. It was refreshing to see MU have a 3 point clunker game and get the win anyway.
Xavier impressed me. I will not be watching it live, instead celebrating Christmas with the extended family.
I wouldn't call last night's game "refreshing".
For most of it watching was about as refreshing as a trip to the dentist.
I hope the grind it out mentality from last night carries over to Saturday.
Quote from: tower912 on December 19, 2024, 06:23:48 AMYes. It was refreshing to see MU have a 3 point clunker game and get the win anyway.
Xavier impressed me. I will not be watching it live, instead celebrating Christmas with the extended family.
54% on 24 threes certainly helped the optics on Xavier. That said, they seemed to play more aggressive and drove more without anyone clogging the middle. Freemantle would typically be posting up in there. Not to say they are better without him because he had been their best player, but it opened things up for them. McKnight was more assertive than I have seen him in a while. Xavier may have re-gained some confidence. MU needs to be ready for their initial burst at home on Saturday. Aberrational shooting performances aside, MU should get the W.
Quote from: tower912 on December 19, 2024, 06:46:06 AMI hope the grind it out mentality from last night carries over to Saturday.
We suck
Wow you guys are right, it's New Years Eve.
I guess I was badly hoping for a Saturday/Tuesday double header around the corner.
Looks like there is a 10 day layoff.
Blessing in disguise as I almost made a fatal mistake and scheduled an event during a Marquette game, going to see Mufasa with the fam on Christmas Eve
Quote from: wisblue on December 19, 2024, 06:42:31 AMFor most of it watching was about as refreshing as a trip to the dentist.
Or reading a post from a dentist.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 19, 2024, 06:23:11 AMRespectfully, disagree about Providence. Creighton is a much better home environment.
Actually you're right. The fact Creighton is having a down year made me forget about them for a second.
Top 2 most difficult places to play based on atmosphere are UConn and Creighton. Top 2 places with the harshest fans are Providence and UConn.
The hardest places to play are usually where the best teams that year are playing. Some of that depends on matchups.
FISERV wasn't the hardest to play at for opposing college teams when it first opened. It's pretty hard to play in now.
So these are two great games to see how good we really are. I think we go 2-0. But have to prove it on the court. We're only 1-2 on the road at "their place" against 3 good teams. So I'm suspect until I see us actually win a few away on the enemy's court.
We should win both but if we don't it says we're just a decent inconsistent team.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on December 20, 2024, 09:56:04 AMSo these are two great games to see how good we really are. I think we go 2-0. But have to prove it on the court. We're only 1-2 on the road at "their place" against 3 good teams. So I'm suspect until I see us actually win a few away on the enemy's court.
We should win both but if we don't it says we're just a decent inconsistent team.
It doesn't say anything other than Marquette is like any other elite college basketball team
Xavier fans are expecting and feeling good about a win.
11 predictions on their board and all have X winning.
Guessing the line will be similar to Dayton. Probably like a 1 point or PK spread.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 10:25:28 AMXavier fans are expecting and feeling good about a win.
11 predictions on their board and all have X winning.
Guessing the line will be similar to Dayton. Probably like a 1 point or PK spread.
Unless there are some unknown injuries I would be shocked if it is 1 point spread. I would think Marquette -3.5 more likely.
If Xavier plays on their home floor like they did at UConn, they will likely win. Big, physical guards, driving and dishing. This is a game where Sean being healthy and DO being further along defensively would help. Zaide and Tre are going to need to continue their progress, defensively. I do not expect to see a lot of Caedin, as there is not a great match up for him.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2024, 10:39:30 AMIf Xavier plays on their home floor like they did at UConn, they will likely win. Big, physical guards, driving and dishing. This is a game where Sean being healthy and DO being further along defensively would help. Zaide and Tre are going to need to continue their progress, defensively. I do not expect to see a lot of Caedin, as there is not a great match up for him.
Caedin can play against Hugley. I agree that this is a game that lines up very well for Xavier to get a win in this spot. Swain is a great option to throw at Kam. Their guards are awesome, and they are desperate for a big win. We've won games like this before though and can do it again.
Need Joplin. He should have a great matchup in this one.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 10:25:28 AMXavier fans are expecting and feeling good about a win.
11 predictions on their board and all have X winning.
Guessing the line will be similar to Dayton. Probably like a 1 point or PK spread.
A fanbase expecting their team to win?
What's the antithesis of Scoop, Alex, for $1000
Bravo.
Also think this Xavier game is a great spot for Tre, Zaide, Damarius, and Royce.
Tre and Zaide because X doesn't have much depth and those two have a chance to come in and make a statement when X may think things will step back with starters off the floor.
Damarius and Royce moreso because of their length and ability to make things happen on offense. They are tough to guard.
Right now, Royce is easy to guard.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2024, 10:55:43 AMRight now, Royce is easy to guard.
Not really. He's just missing open shots and not playing defense which makes it tough for him to stay on the floor.
Had a big offensive rebound and putback against the Bulldogs. Very versatile and has had some of his best games on the road @ Iowa State and Maryland.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 10:59:43 AMNot really. He's just missing open shots and not playing defense which makes it tough for him to stay on the floor.
Had a big offensive rebound and putback against the Bulldogs. Very versatile and has had some of his best games on the road @ Iowa State and Maryland.
I'm trying to see the connection with what Tower posted and your response. He posted about being easy to guard, and you replied with comments about offensive performance. ?-(
I am a Royce fan. His future is bright. Eventually, he will start to get to the next actions, leading to easier shots for him and others.
Right now, he is conscience free catch and shoot. Freshman. Not many worries.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on December 20, 2024, 11:04:05 AMI'm trying to see the connection with what Tower posted and your response. He posted about being easy to guard, and you replied with comments about offensive performance. ?-(
It is quite easy to see why he is tough to guard.
He's a strong 6'8" player that can stretch the floor and play near the basket. If you can't see that then idk if you've really been watching. He hasn't made outside shots which is hurting him, but missing shots doesn't make him easy to guard. He is a tough matchup.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 11:16:39 AMIt is quite easy to see why he is tough to guard.
He's a strong 6'8" player that can stretch the floor and play near the basket. If you can't see that then idk if you've really been watching. He hasn't made outside shots which is hurting him, but missing shots doesn't make him easy to guard. He is a tough matchup.
If he isn't making his outside shots, isn't he by definition NOT stretching the floor?
The next two, like most games will come down to our starting 5 playing well. If we get production from our bench that's great, but we've lost games with bench production and won games with little bench production. Don't need to make it more complicated than it is.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 11:20:12 AMIf he isn't making his outside shots, isn't he by definition NOT stretching the floor?
The next two, like most games will come down to our starting 5 playing well. If we get production from our bench that's great, but we've lost games with bench production and won games with little bench production. Don't need to make it more complicated than it is.
No. His capability of knocking down shots is what stretches the defense out to the perimeter. He also has more Offensive Rebounds than Defensive Rebounds this year. That's a nightmare for a defense...but as Shaka has said...Royce is one of their best offensive players, but it all comes down to defense with him on whether he will see the floor.
Gotta fix the zone offense, because I'm sure Miller will have it ready to go.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 11:24:56 AMNo. His capability of knocking down shots is what stretches the defense out to the perimeter. He also has more Offensive Rebounds than Defensive Rebounds this year. That's a nightmare for a defense...but as Shaka has said...Royce is one of their best offensive players, but it all comes down to defense with him on whether he will see the floor.
But he hasn't shown this capability, which is why he's being left alone out there.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 20, 2024, 11:25:39 AMGotta fix the zone offense, because I'm sure Miller will have it ready to go.
Making wide open 3s will fix it
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 11:26:15 AMBut he hasn't shown this capability, which is why he's being left alone out there.
He has made almost a 3 per game. He isn't being left alone just to be left alone, he's getting open looks because defenses collapse on Kam.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 11:38:14 AMHe has made almost a 3 per game. He isn't being left alone just to be left alone, he's getting open looks because defenses collapse on Kam.
Almost a made 3 per game? LOL, on over 3.5 attempts. Ben stretches the D because he's not shooting 23% from three. The scouting report on us is that once Ben goes out for either Caedin or Royce, you no longer have to guard our big out to the three point line.
Royce is further along than I thought he'd be at this point, but he does not stretch the D when he's in.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 11:44:56 AMAlmost a made 3 per game? LOL, on over 3.5 attempts. Ben stretches the D because he's not shooting 23% from three. The scouting report on us is that once Ben goes out for either Caedin or Royce, you no longer have to guard our big out to the three point line.
Royce is further along than I thought he'd be at this point, but he does not stretch the D when he's in.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 11:44:56 AMAlmost a made 3 per game? LOL, on over 3.5 attempts. Ben stretches the D because he's not shooting 23% from three. The scouting report on us is that once Ben goes out for either Caedin or Royce, you no longer have to guard our big out to the three point line.
Royce is further along than I thought he'd be at this point, but he does not stretch the D when he's in.
That could not be further from the truth with Royce at all lol.
Nobody is just letting him shoot 3s. He is getting open looks because of Kam Jones. Of his 10 made 3s, 7 of them are assisted by Kam...and of his 40 whatever attempts, most come off passes from Kam Jones.
Kam is the best player in the World at the College level and that's why Royce, Joplin, and Ben will continue to get open looks from 3. Defenses have to collapse on Kam.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 10:43:59 AMCaedin can play against Hugley. I agree that this is a game that lines up very well for Xavier to get a win in this spot. Swain is a great option to throw at Kam. Their guards are awesome, and they are desperate for a big win. We've won games like this before though and can do it again.
Need Joplin. He should have a great matchup in this one.
Feeling great about this game after reading this post.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 11:24:56 AMNo. His capability of knocking down shots is what stretches the defense out to the perimeter. He also has more Offensive Rebounds than Defensive Rebounds this year. That's a nightmare for a defense...but as Shaka has said...Royce is one of their best offensive players, but it all comes down to defense with him on whether he will see the floor.
Maybe Royce is missing open shots because teams aren't guarding the perimeter shot, since he's shooting 23% from 3.
Tower is correct. If Royce has the ball, chances are a shot is going up. That makes a guy a lot easier to guard than someone who can make plays for others, make plays off the dribble, etc.
NM, it's not even worth it if you're going to move the goalposts so much.
Kam drawing attention on D, and Royce being a capable outside shooter are two completely different topics. You just spray from the hip finding new unrelated topics to spew nonsense about.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 11:53:26 AMKam is the best player in the World at the College level
Clearly you haven't seen my other Alma mater play. Eoin Rockall would decimate jones, NCAA D1 teams are just too scared to play Irish super league teams!
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 11:58:58 AMNM, it's not even worth it if you're going to move the goalposts so much.
Kam drawing attention on D, and Royce being a capable outside shooter are two completely different topics. You just spray from the hip finding new unrelated topics to spew nonsense about.
There are no goalposts being moved.
It really isn't hard to see or understand. Royce's capability to knock down perimeter shots is what causes his ability to stretch the floor.
The reason he is getting so many open looks isn't because teams are just letting him shoot. Royce isn't the only one getting wide open 3's. The whole team gets wide open 3's...because of Kam...that's the point.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 12:04:10 PMThere are no goalposts being moved.
It really isn't hard to see or understand. Royce's capability to knock down perimeter shots is what causes his ability to stretch the floor.
The reason he is getting so many open looks isn't because teams are just letting him shoot. Royce isn't the only one getting wide open 3's. The whole team gets wide open 3's...because of Kam...that's the point.
Nobody's worried about a sub 100 freshman who's shooting 23% from 3 shooting 3 pointers. He's not stretching the floor, even though he's shooting a lot of 3s for the limited minutes he gets. He'll eventually learn what's a good shot vs. what's an available shot.
Guys, am I on Punke'd?
Royce is in no way stretching the floor. Teams would encourage a 23% three point shooter to hoist as much as possible. They would beg for him to take uncontested three's all game long, because he isn't an accomplished outside shooter, and can't stretch the floor.
How low would his percentage have to be on how many attempts per game for you to realize that.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 12:04:10 PMThere are no goalposts being moved.
It really isn't hard to see or understand. Royce's capability to knock down perimeter shots is what causes his ability to stretch the floor.
The reason he is getting so many open looks isn't because teams are just letting him shoot. Royce isn't the only one getting wide open 3's. The whole team gets wide open 3's...because of Kam...that's the point.
Just for more context on the open 3s.
139 of the teams 354 attempts have been unguarded catch and shoot 3s. Nearly 40%!
Kam Jones effect.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 12:21:59 PMJust for more context on the open 3s.
139 of the teams 354 attempts have been unguarded catch and shoot 3s. Nearly 40%!
Kam Jones effect.
Which is a completely different point. Kam being a magnet and drawing defense's in does not mean that every other player out there is stretching the defense.
Kam is a magnet and Royce does not stretch the D, two completely unrelated but factual statements.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 11:26:15 AMBut he hasn't shown this capability, which is why he's being left alone out there.
I guess his reply to me-" idk if you have really been watching" applies to you also. ;D
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 12:23:36 PMWhich is a completely different point. Kam being a magnet and drawing defense's in does not mean that every other player out there is stretching the defense.
Kam is a magnet and Royce does not stretch the D, two completely unrelated but factual statements.
Correct. Royce isn't stretching the floor at all. At this point in his career, defenses want him shooting that. As he gains consistency, they will definitely be guarding him differently.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 20, 2024, 12:25:39 PMCorrect. Royce isn't stretching the floor at all. At this point in his career, defenses want him shooting that. As he gains consistency, they will definitely be guarding him differently.
This is why every few games Jop lays a stinker. Get too consistent and the teams will always prep for it.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 12:21:59 PMJust for more context on the open 3s.
139 of the teams 354 attempts have been unguarded catch and shoot 3s. Nearly 40%!
Kam Jones effect.
If Marquette were a better shooting team, they wouldn't be getting 40% unguarded looks. Collapsing on Kam is a better defensive option than guarding the three.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on December 20, 2024, 12:24:53 PMI guess his reply to me-" idk if you have really been watching" applies to you also. ;D
It's kinda what he does. Double down on incorrect statements while also throwing a correct statement out there and trying to group everything together.
Cinema
Quote from: K1 Lover on December 19, 2024, 12:09:49 PMActually you're right. The fact Creighton is having a down year made me forget about them for a second.
Top 2 most difficult places to play based on atmosphere are UConn and Creighton. Top 2 places with the harshest fans are Providence and UConn.
I would say an up and down year
Seems to me that one of the big factors in Xavier's showing at UConn was their 3 point shooting. Is that a normal percentage for them or will they regress to a mean? I'm thinking they regress. :)
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 12:40:46 PMIt's kinda what he does. Double down on incorrect statements while also throwing a correct statement out there and trying to group everything together.
I'm sorry you see it that way. I said Royce stretches the floor...which I stand by.
I used Kam as a piece of evidence as to why Royce is getting open looks...which I also stand by. Teams aren't just going to give Royce open 3s intentionally.
SMH. Markus was one of the greatest in program history at drawing extra defenders, I'm going to use that as evidence that Theo was stretching the floor.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 12:54:49 PMI'm sorry you see it that way. I said Royce stretches the floor...which I stand by.
I used Kam as a piece of evidence as to why Royce is getting open looks...which I also stand by. Teams aren't just going to give Royce open 3s intentionally.
But they are. They are sagging off of him to make it harder for Kam to get to the hoop. Kam is getting Royce those shots because that's what the defense wants!
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 12:56:49 PMSMH. Markus was one of the greatest in program history at drawing extra defenders, I'm going to use that as evidence that Theo was stretching the floor.
Guy shot 75% from 3!
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 12:54:49 PMI'm sorry you see it that way. I said Royce stretches the floor...which I stand by.
I used Kam as a piece of evidence as to why Royce is getting open looks...which I also stand by. Teams aren't just going to give Royce open 3s intentionally.
(https://roomescapeartist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/you-keep-using-that-word-meme-300x252.jpg)
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 20, 2024, 12:58:06 PMBut they are. They are sagging off of him to make it harder for Kam to get to the hoop. Kam is getting Royce those shots because that's what the defense wants!
I would rather give up a Royce 3 than a Kam layup...but I still believe Royce stretches the floor. Just listening to basketball minds like Shaka who raves about Royce offensively and Wes Matthews who said Royce reminds him of Bobby Portis for his ability to space the floor.
If you guys don't believe that to be true, fine. I tend to believe it. Oh well.
You can be a good offensive player with having the ability to "stretch the floor". Oso is one of the most recent/best examples.
I like Royce's fearlessness on the offensive end, I think he has a high ceiling as an offensive player. He currently does not have the ability to stretch the floor. If he improves his three point shooting, he may develop that ability.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 01:15:03 PMI would rather give up a Royce 3 than a Kam layup...but I still believe Royce stretches the floor. Just listening to basketball minds like Shaka who raves about Royce offensively and Wes Matthews who said Royce reminds him of Bobby Portis for his ability to space the floor.
If you guys don't believe that to be true, fine. I tend to believe it. Oh well.
Being a stretch four means you can get points low in the paint as well as behind the three point line consistently. Royce can't do that yet. I'm sure he will develop into that kind of player, but he lacks consistency. This is shown by his 3 point percentage (23%). If he becomes more consistent with his 3 point percentage he will be able to STRETCH the defense because they will be forced to guard him out on the 3 point line.
Thank you for listening to my TED talk
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 01:15:03 PMWes Matthews who said Royce reminds him of Bobby Portis
Our other players should probably wear face guards for preemptive protection then.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 01:18:41 PMYou can be a good offensive player with having the ability to "stretch the floor". Oso is one of the most recent/best examples.
I like Royce's fearlessness on the offensive end, I think he has a high ceiling as an offensive player. He currently does not have the ability to stretch the floor. If he improves his three point shooting, he may develop that ability.
Using Oso as an example in a conversation about Royce and his ability to space the floor...just seems wrong. Like I get your point, but Oso isn't a fair example when discussing Royce.
Wes and Terrence Ogelsby raved about Royce and used the the words "space the floor" when comparing him to Bobby Portis. Making more shots helps, of course, but his presence on the floor and ability to shoot even with some struggles isn't nothing.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 01:34:49 PMUsing Oso as an example in a conversation about Royce and his ability to space the floor...just seems wrong. Like I get your point, but Oso isn't a fair example when discussing Royce.
Wes and Terrence Ogelsby raved about Royce and used the the words "space the floor" when comparing him to Bobby Portis. Making more shots helps, of course, but his presence on the floor and ability to shoot even with some struggles isn't nothing.
So comparing a MU big with limited range to a MU big with limited range is unfair because?...
This is why I have a hard time taking anything you say seriously, you just decide you want to ignore data or examples. Royce makes almost one 3 per game, but lets ignore his actual percentage. Royce and Oso are both MU bigs playing within Shakas system, but comparing them is unfair because a commentator compared Royce to Bobby Portis.
I'm trying to make it make sense, but you are just so blatantly shifting goalposts and ignoring data that it makes it hard.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 20, 2024, 01:41:30 PMSo comparing a MU big with limited range to a MU big with limited range is unfair because?...
This is why I have a hard time taking anything you say seriously, you just decide you want to ignore data or examples. Royce makes almost one 3 per game, but lets ignore his actual percentage. Royce and Oso are both MU bigs playing within Shakas system, but comparing them is unfair because a commentator compared Royce to Bobby Portis.
I'm trying to make it make sense, but you are just so blatantly shifting goalposts and ignoring data that it makes it hard.
You've somehow talked yourself into thinking Royce has limited range?
I guess we will end it there then.
From the 16:02 mark to 9:40 mark in the 2H at Iowa State, Royce had 11 points and 3 made 3s.
So forgive me for thinking that is not comparable to a guy with 0 made 3s in a 4 year college career.
So again, you're just going to look at a 7 minute period and cherrypick data from there and ignore what the data suggests over his entire career to date. If that 7 minute segment was all we had to base his skillset on, you'd be spot on, but instead you're going to put your blinders up to all of his limitations.
You're both right, in that royce ain't shooting great yet so you thinks he doesn't space the floor, but they ain't leaving him all by his lonesome the way theo or old stevie would get sometimes. You still have to guard him out there. He's not a GOOD or LETHAL floor spacer just yet but he is keeping the floor spaced.
Quote from: Pepe Sylvia on December 20, 2024, 01:53:09 PMYou're both right, in that royce ain't shooting great yet so you thinks he doesn't space the floor, but they ain't leaving him all by his lonesome the way theo or old stevie would get sometimes. You still have to guard him out there. He's not a GOOD or LETHAL floor spacer just yet but he is keeping the floor spaced.
Thank you!
Quote from: Pepe Sylvia on December 20, 2024, 01:53:09 PMYou're both right, in that royce ain't shooting great yet so you thinks he doesn't space the floor, but they ain't leaving him all by his lonesome the way theo or old stevie would get sometimes. You still have to guard him out there. He's not a GOOD or LETHAL floor spacer just yet but he is keeping the floor spaced.
You're comparing him to another MU player? That's just wrong. That's unfair, you can't do that.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 01:54:48 PMThank you!
I asked before, and you conveniently ignored it (like his stats outside 7 minutes). How low would his three point shooting percentage have to get until he's no longer "stretching the defense"?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 20, 2024, 01:58:55 PMLOL. That is not what you said, but OK...
How is it not?
I said they aren't leaving him wide open just to leave him open. I also said that he is keeping the floor spaced. We are in agreement.
Teams are leaving him wide open from the perimeter, though. Almost all of his 3 point attempts come when he pops after screening for the ball handler. Teams are, smartly, leaving Royce open on the 3 point line to prevent the ball handler from getting into the paint with the dribble drive. Until he starts shooting the ball better, teams will continue to do this. If he starts shooting 3s at 40%, teams will no longer provide as much help on the ball handler, driving lanes will be more open, and the kickback pass to Royce will no longer be available.
Quite frankly, Royce should probably take a page from Oso's book and let the offense get into some secondary actions before he takes the shots he's taking. We can get that pick and pop open 3 from him with 8 on the shot clock after we've tried to get a better look. He doesn't need to take the first look he gets with 18 on the shot clock.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 02:01:50 PMHow is it not?
I said they aren't leaving him wide open just to leave him open. I also said that he is keeping the floor spaced. We are in agreement.
You really are not getting it.
They all keep telling you the same thing.
Kam is elite, we all agree. Kam drives. The D collapses on Kam to stop his drive. Kam kicks to Royce who is open because the D chooses to guard Kam instead of guarding him.
If Royce was a proper "floor spacer" as you say. The D would not leave him. That is literally the point of spacing the floor. You have a guy driving to the hoop(Kam) AND a guy on the perimeter(Royce) both of which you do not want to leave open. That is floor spacing.
Making it so the D has to have someone on both men. And when they are not able to guard ROyce, they are forced to pay.
Right now neither of those are true. They are not guarding him, and they are not being made to pay for it.
Right now your argument implies I could toss on a uniform right now. Go stand behind the 3 point line and let it fly. FLoor spacer.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 20, 2024, 02:40:53 PMYou really are not getting it.
They all keep telling you the same thing.
Kam is elite, we all agree. Kam drives. The D collapses on Kam to stop his drive. Kam kicks to Royce who is open because the D chooses to guard Kam instead of guarding him.
If Royce was a proper "floor spacer" as you say. The D would not leave him. That is literally the point of spacing the floor. You have a guy driving to the hoop(Kam) AND a guy on the perimeter(Royce) both of which you do not want to leave open. That is floor spacing.
Making it so the D has to have someone on both men. And when they are not able to guard ROyce, they are forced to pay.
Right now neither of those are true. They are not guarding him, and they are not being made to pay for it.
Right now your argument implies I could toss on a uniform right now. Go stand behind the 3 point line and let it fly. FLoor spacer.
What you're not getting is that they will always send multiple at Kam because he is just that good. It isn't just Royce that is open, Jop is, Ben is, all our shooters are.
They aren't specifically leaving Royce for any other reason other than attention is elsewhere. Royce is a stretch 4. He absolutely is.
Cinema
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 03:25:02 PMWhat you're not getting is that they will always send multiple at Kam because he is just that good. It isn't just Royce that is open, Jop is, Ben is, all our shooters are.
They aren't specifically leaving Royce for any other reason other than attention is elsewhere. Royce is a stretch 4. He absolutely is.
It's true that they often choose to double Kam, but defenses do not leave Jop and Ben nearly as open as they do Royce. Because both those guys have proven they can knock down shots with relative consistency. Kam gets to the hoop sometimes when they screen because the defense plays him 1 on 1 or switches.
That is not the case with Royce at this point.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 20, 2024, 10:38:00 AMUnless there are some unknown injuries I would be shocked if it is 1 point spread. I would think Marquette -3.5 more likely.
Good call! According to X (Twitter), X is a 3.5 point dog at home.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 03:25:02 PMWhat you're not getting is that they will always send multiple at Kam because he is just that good. It isn't just Royce that is open, Jop is, Ben is, all our shooters are.
They aren't specifically leaving Royce for any other reason other than attention is elsewhere. Royce is a stretch 4. He absolutely is.
So your assertion is that defenses would sag off of Royce to defend Kam's drives even if he shot like Sam Hauser?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 20, 2024, 03:27:39 PMSo your assertion is that defenses would sag off of Royce to defend Kam's drives even if he shot like Sam Hauser?
No.
My assertion is that defenses aren't overjoyed when Royce takes wide open 3s...it is something that happens throughout the course of the game when Kam puts pressure on defenses. Similar to Jop and Ben. They all are capable of shooting from the 4/5 position.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 03:37:50 PMNo.
My assertion is that defenses aren't overjoyed when Royce takes wide open 3s...it is something that happens throughout the course of the game when Kam puts pressure on defenses. Similar to Jop and Ben. They all are capable of shooting from the 4/5 position.
I officially have zero idea what point you are trying to make.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 20, 2024, 03:39:50 PMI officially have zero idea what point you are trying to make.
The only point is that Royce Parham is not easy to guard because he is a stretch big capable of spacing the floor with his shooting ability...that is literally it.
There is one other person so far that agrees...and that is fine.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 03:44:12 PMThere is one other person so far that agrees...and that is fine.
There are very few things that are that close to a consensus on Scoop. It probably means you're wrong. As do the fact that Royce finds himself wide open from 3 consistently, and is only shooting 23% from 3.
If you're that open, there's a reason for it. And it ain't Kam.
Any possession that ends with a Royce/Caedin/Tre/Zaide three is a win for the defense.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 20, 2024, 03:57:05 PMThere are very few things that are that close to a consensus on Scoop. It probably means you're wrong. As do the fact that Royce finds himself wide open from 3 consistently, and is only shooting 23% from 3.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 03:44:12 PMThe only point is that Royce Parham is not easy to guard because he is a stretch big capable of spacing the floor with his shooting ability...that is literally it.
There is one other person so far that agrees...and that is fine.
This is why you're getting push back.
Connect the dots.
Who will be a better career 3P shooter at Marquette, Ben or Royce?
Quote from: DoctorV on December 20, 2024, 08:34:42 PMWho will be a better career 3P shooter at Marquette, Ben or Royce?
TBD. Royce will start hitting more consistently, eventually. I like that Shaka is giving him a green light for now. I agree with others that he could probably wait to shoot til later in a possession and see if other action works but I like his confidence. Shaka obviously does too. Keep shooting medium sized fella!
Was Royce a stretch 4 at ISU? At Maryland? GMU? Royce has shown the ability to in the future develop into a reliable stretch 4 not the consistency yet. Shaka says 3s are the most volatile stat in CBB so it's possible Royce gets a bit more consistent as he's shown he can make them.
That said the reasoning used is ridiculous.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 21, 2024, 06:25:11 AMTBD. Royce will start hitting more consistently, eventually. I like that Shaka is giving him a green light for now. I agree with others that he could probably wait to shoot til later in a possession and see if other action works but I like his confidence. Shaka obviously does too. Keep shooting medium sized fella!
Ok but this doesn't give an answer.
I'm not quite sure, but I'll guess Royce by a tick or two. I'm still not sure if Ben will be a 33, 35, or 37% shooter from 3 this year or next either, because his shooting comes in streaks like most.
His shot looks much better and more repetitive of late though, so that's great.
I think as Royce gets more mature and settles into his roll he will become a slightly better pick and pop option than Benny.
After today's game Ben should benched, he is Dung like Steve
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 21, 2024, 01:18:36 PMAfter today's game Ben should benched, he is Dung like Steve
That's on Shaka.
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 21, 2024, 01:22:00 PMThat is why I can't wait for Wardle
Shaka's inability to coach up Kam's FT shooting is a black mark on his time in Milwaukee. What does he do during practice? Does he even yell at Kam?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 21, 2024, 01:28:24 PMShaka's inability to coach up Kam's FT shooting is a black mark on his time in Milwaukee. What does he do during practice? Does he even yell at Kam?
Kam probably screams at Shaka and won't do what he wants.
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 21, 2024, 01:32:30 PMKam probably screams at Shaka and won't do what he wants.
How can he scream when it appears his head is up his own rectum all the time?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 21, 2024, 01:34:10 PMHow can he scream when it appears his head is up his own rectum all the time?
You are correct, my bad
Royce was Marquette's +/- leader today and was 1-1 from the field. Thought he looked pretty good defensively.
I thought Ben was great too, but he was Marquette's worst +/- at -12 (I believe) which didn't match the eye test of his actual impact.
Everyone on the team had bright spots.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 20, 2024, 03:44:12 PMThe only point is that Royce Parham is not easy to guard because he is a stretch big capable of spacing the floor with his shooting ability...that is literally it.
There is one other person so far that agrees...and that is fine.
He's certainly shown he can shoot it from 3 on a consistent basis.......actually making them at a reasonable rate is still a work in progress however. We are all hopeful that day will come at some point in the future.
The sooner the better.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 21, 2024, 01:28:24 PMShaka's inability to coach up Kam's FT shooting is a black mark on his time in Milwaukee. What does he do during practice? Does he even yell at Kam?
Free throw. HARDER. (Wojo voice)
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 21, 2024, 05:23:58 PMRoyce was Marquette's +/- leader today and was 1-1 from the field. Thought he looked pretty good defensively.
I thought Ben was great too, but he was Marquette's worst +/- at -12 (I believe) which didn't match the eye test of his actual impact.
Everyone on the team had bright spots.
Bench Brick
Ben Cold.
Or....
Ben Goldgoldgoldgoldgoldgold. Golllllllllllllllllld.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 21, 2024, 05:23:58 PMRoyce was Marquette's +/- leader today and was 1-1 from the field. Thought he looked pretty good defensively.
I thought Ben was great too, but he was Marquette's worst +/- at -12 (I believe) which didn't match the eye test of his actual impact.
Everyone on the team had bright spots.
+/- is a terrible stat. Please stop using it.