There keeps being some discourse on where Sean is. Ive kept saying that the way Shaka speaks definitely sounds like expecting to have contribution this year.
The answer to the question around the 10 minute mark post game leads me to believe SJ very early into conference play is coming. I'd guess game 3 at latest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JJcgG_B9Hw
If I were putting money on it I'd bet on the conference opener against Butler.
Of our next four games it's the only one at Fiserv, and I can't imagine a better way to welcome him back than by having the home crowd be there to cheer him on. They were there for his last game of the season so it's only right they're also there for his first. And fittingly enough, both would involve a home game against the bulldogs.
It'll be a good ease-in for him too since Butler should be a very winnable game. There won't be nearly as much pressure as say the road game at Dayton.
Quote from: K1 Lover on December 07, 2024, 10:29:55 PMIf I were putting money on it I'd bet on the Butler game.
Of our next four games it's the only one at Fiserv, and I can't imagine a better way to welcome him back than by having the home crowd be there to cheer him on. They were there for his last game of the season so it's only right they're also there for his first.
It'll be a good ease-in for him too since Butler should be a very winnable game. There won't be nearly as much pressure as say the road game at Dayton.
HOme game vs the team he tore his knee against?
You are a sick, sick man.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 07, 2024, 10:34:17 PMHOme game vs the team he tore his knee against?
You are a sick, sick man.
I actually didn't realize that until after I posted and immediately had to edit it in. A perfect full circle, really.
Well, Dayton is about an hour from Sean's home. That seems as good of a time as any.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on December 10, 2024, 07:00:50 AMWell, Dayton is about an hour from Sean's home. That seems as good of a time as any.
And I understand it's his birthday on Saturday.......
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 10, 2024, 09:47:00 AMAnd I understand it's his birthday on Saturday.......
I'm glad I'm not putting money on it then. Those are some good reasons to bet on a 12/14 return date. Either way, it'll be great to see him on the floor again.
#pawz
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/when-will-sean-jones-return-from-acl-injury-for-marquette-shaka-smart-gives-an-update/ar-AA1v4ik0?ocid=BingNewsSerp
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 12, 2024, 04:28:02 PMhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/when-will-sean-jones-return-from-acl-injury-for-marquette-shaka-smart-gives-an-update/ar-AA1v4ik0?ocid=BingNewsSerp
Yes, that article is over a week old and its contents have been discussed.
RIP Joe Lieberman.
He was injured at the Butler game last year. And, we lost too btw.
JTY can help us. Great handles and zoomability, which can alleviate some pressure on Kam. He also has the ability to smother opposing guards and cause tremendous anxiety with his quicks and overall perstiferousness. I love the kid and hope he's back ASAP. The sports story of '24-25 may very well be MU hoops, led by Shaka, in my unbiased opinion.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 12, 2024, 06:34:30 PMJTY can help us. Great handles and zoomability, which can alleviate some pressure on Kam. He also has the ability to smother opposing guards and cause tremendous anxiety with his quicks and overall perstiferousness. I love the kid and hope he's back ASAP. The sports story of '24-25 may very well be MU hoops, led by Shaka, in my unbiased opinion.
Unbiased opinion?
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 12, 2024, 07:30:09 PMUnbiased opinion?
Yeah, that was good but so was "tremendous anxiety". Oh, the irony. ;D
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 12, 2024, 06:34:30 PMJTY can help us. Great handles and zoomability, which can alleviate some pressure on Kam. He also has the ability to smother opposing guards and cause tremendous anxiety with his quicks and overall perstiferousness. I love the kid and hope he's back ASAP. The sports story of '24-25 may very well be MU hoops, led by Shaka, in my unbiased opinion.
You are a Scoop treasure, my little friend.
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2024, 09:28:23 PMYou are a Scoop treasure, my little friend.
Agreed. No one should make fun of Muggsy. They should encourage the little guy.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 12, 2024, 09:38:19 PMAgreed. No one should make fun of Muggsy. They should encourage the little guy.
Muss up his hair a little. Hang his five point plan on the fridge.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 13, 2024, 04:16:52 AMMuss up his hair a little. Hang his five point plan on the fridge.
I believe it is just concepts of a plan.
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 13, 2024, 08:05:43 AMI believe it is just concepts of a plan.
That's good. My fridge isn't that big.
Good for Sean, aina? 8-)
Sean Jones even at less than 100% is awesome. His Skill set and the role he plays helps winning. Heard a couple weeks ago maybe Marquette Butler game but probably early January.
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on December 15, 2024, 08:41:56 PMSean Jones even at less than 100% is awesome. His Skill set and the role he plays helps winning. Heard a couple weeks ago maybe Marquette Butler game but probably early January.
Get any whispers?
I have a vague memory of Self looking utterly defeated and befuddled when JTY was slicing through his defense like a ginsu knife. There's speed, and then there's SR-71 sht on land. We all want Sean to be as healthy as possible, but do not forget how explosive this young man can be when he's 100%. JTY is one tough cookie and a gamer. I really hope he can get back and contribute very soon.
Waiting for Sean's return, not waiting for his first TO during a game and game thread comments.
I like the symmetry of Sean returning against Butler at home. Skeptical, but like the whole closing of the circle vibe.
Any word on JTY? I know he has practiced. I still think he can help us in limited mins. Taking some pressure of a Kam and moving him off the ball at times would be nice.
Seriously?
Shaka has said he is practicing. That Sean is doing good things. It will ultimately be Sean's decision when he trusts everything and feels ready.
Quote from: tower912 on December 22, 2024, 01:00:16 PMSeriously?
Shaka has said he is practicing. That Sean is doing good things. It will ultimately be Sean's decision when he trusts everything and feels ready.
I thought there might be a new update. Sorry.
I think after this 10 day stretch makes a lot of sense. That's just my feel. No inside knowledge.
Like Shaka said, it's up to Sean at this point.
Cant win without him now.
Will Kam still start??
I would expect double double in first game......
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 22, 2024, 01:13:32 PMCant win without him now.
Will Kam still start??
I would expect double double in first game......
No one stated that.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 22, 2024, 01:13:32 PMCant win without him now.
Will Kam still start??
I would expect double double in first game......
No triple-double?
COLE
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Jones will make a difference for this team.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 22, 2024, 02:28:56 PMI hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Jones will make a difference for this team.
Just because he is too far behind with conditioning? Concerned he won't have his explosion due to the injury? Or you just don't like him as a player (his style, his height, his inconsistent shooting).
If Sean is willing I think they need to utilize him.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 22, 2024, 02:28:56 PMI hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Jones will make a difference for this team.
I'd like to find out if Sean is willing. Can't hurt the team. Shaka doesn't have to play him if he is.
It is up to Sean.
That w
Quote from: tower912 on December 22, 2024, 03:04:19 PMIt is up to Sean.
Correct that was stated by me and multiple others and you multiple times already.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 22, 2024, 02:58:16 PMJust because he is too far behind with conditioning? Concerned he won't have his explosion due to the injury? Or you just don't like him as a player (his style, his height, his inconsistent shooting).
I think it will be hard for him to come back mid-year in conference. He adds speed, which I don't think we necessarily lack, and what else?
I have a ton of faith in Shaka, but I don't think we have a point guard next year.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 22, 2024, 04:31:37 PMI have a ton of faith in Shaka, but I don't think we have a point guard next year.
Sean
Tre
Nigel James.
Owens?
I think Chase initiates offense some next season. And I think there are multiple other options. For real fun, Chase, Zaide, DO, Parham, Gold. Size, defense, versatility. Should still be a lot of fun.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 22, 2024, 04:31:37 PMI think it will be hard for him to come back mid-year in conference. He adds speed, which I don't think we necessarily lack, and what else?
I have a ton of faith in Shaka, but I don't think we have a point guard next year.
He can move Kam off the ball in stretches. His blow by speed in the h-court can also help us get better shots imo. Don't underestimate zoomability. On both ends of the floor. He can pick up guys full-court at an elite level. He had a number of impactful games against tier 1 opponents before his injury last season. Now, he may not be ready. Both conditioning wise and mentally. That said he's a valuable rotational player that can add tremendous energy and grit. There's a reason why Self and the Kansas players looked utterly befuddled by JTY in Honolulu.
W
Quote from: avid1010 on December 22, 2024, 04:31:37 PMI think it will be hard for him to come back mid-year in conference. He adds speed, which I don't think we necessarily lack, and what else?
I have a ton of faith in Shaka, but I don't think we have a point guard next year.
Werent there scoopers saying we didnt have one this year after TKO? Hmm
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 22, 2024, 05:42:11 PMWWerent there scoopers saying we didnt have one this year after TKO? Hmm
Shaka hasn't earned the right for us to trust his roster construction
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 22, 2024, 05:44:40 PMShaka hasn't earned the right for us to trust his roster construction
Shaka doesn't have a clue about roster construction
I think we see him back this season... but i would advise a lot of patience. If he manages to take Tres spot in the rotation, that would be a huge accomplishment given whats hes coming back from and when
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 22, 2024, 10:33:55 PMI think we see him back this season... but i would advise a lot of patience. If he manages to take Tres spot in the rotation, that would be a huge accomplishment given whats hes coming back from and when
If Sean feels he is ready he will be back and get some spot minutes. Then depending on how he feels and plays he might get more as the season continues. But he should be back and soon and sounded like it was up to him. Not docs or coaches according to a Shaka
Quote from: Daniel on December 22, 2024, 11:17:37 PMIf Sean feels he is ready he will be back and get some spot minutes. Then depending on how he feels and plays he might get more as the season continues. But he should be back and soon and sounded like it was up to him. Not docs or coaches according to a Shaka
Sounds like it's up to him then, if I'm understanding the latest news correctly.
Wait. So it's up to him? That's a revelation.
I expect a triple triple his first game back.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 22, 2024, 05:42:11 PMWWerent there scoopers saying we didnt have one this year after TKO? Hmm
There were. I wasn't one of them. It was obvious during TKO's injury MU was going to be fine with Kam.
I'm not saying we won't score. I just think it's going to look vastly different than what we've seen with TKO and Kam, and I think it will bite us at times, similar to not having a legit big in the Dayton game. I still have a ton of faith Shaka will figure out how to put a quality product on the court.
It will be interesting to see if he looks at the portal at all. I would think a reliable senior pg would be tempting.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 06:55:17 AMThere were. I wasn't one of them. It was obvious during TKO's injury MU was going to be fine with Kam.
I'm not saying we won't score. I just think it's going to look vastly different than what we've seen with TKO and Kam, and I think it will bite us at times, similar to not having a legit big in the Dayton game. I still have a ton of faith Shaka will figure out how to put a quality product on the court.
It will be interesting to see if he looks at the portal at all. I would think a reliable senior pg would be tempting.
I wont say never, but pretty close.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 06:55:17 AMThere were. I wasn't one of them. It was obvious during TKO's injury MU was going to be fine with Kam.
I'm not saying we won't score. I just think it's going to look vastly different than what we've seen with TKO and Kam, and I think it will bite us at times, similar to not having a legit big in the Dayton game. I still have a ton of faith Shaka will figure out how to put a quality product on the court.
It will be interesting to see if he looks at the portal at all. I would think a reliable senior pg would be tempting.
MU isn't a quality product already?
As to the portal, MU currently as 14 out of of 15 scholarships accounted for. If there are unexpected departures, sure there could be a trip to the portal. But, based on history and Shaka's interviews, the player would have to be better than who is already at MU and be willing to transfer to MU without a bag drop.
Finally, Sean, Tre, Nigel, DO (?), and let me toss Chase in the mix. I see glimpses that Chase could play a Kam/Tony Smith style PG.
Sean and Nigel are both PGs, Chase and Damarius can both initiate the offense.
Yeah. Not worried about the PG spot next year.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 22, 2024, 04:31:37 PMI think it will be hard for him to come back mid-year in conference. He adds speed, which I don't think we necessarily lack, and what else?
I have a ton of faith in Shaka, but I don't think we have a point guard next year.
Lol.
We have plenty.
Like 5 or 6 capable of bringing the ball up the court.
Any word on Sean's availability this week?
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2024, 07:14:44 AMMU isn't a quality product already?
I think he will need to do things very differently within the offense to have a team that competes at the level the teams of the last three years have without a TKO or Kam at pg.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 23, 2024, 04:35:50 PMAny word on Sean's availability this week?
The entire roster is unavailable this week.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 04:48:35 PMI think he will need to do things very differently within the offense to have a team that competes at the level the teams of the last three years have without a TKO or Kam at pg.
Oh, so next year issues.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 23, 2024, 03:19:24 PMLol.
We have plenty.
Like 5 or 6 capable of bringing the ball up the court.
Agreed, but it looks different when you PG isn't initiating the offense the way MU plays.
How has the offense looked this year without Kam? That is with Jop and Stevie still available. When TKO went down...we looked good with Kam. I wish I was seeing the same this year.
I'm relishing this year and believe in Shaka...just think it will be difficult to keep this high level of success without someone with the passing and scoring ability of Kam or TKO.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 05:00:00 PMAgreed, but it looks different when you PG isn't initiating the offense the way MU plays.
How has the offense looked this year without Kam? That is with Jop and Stevie still available. When TKO went down...we looked good with Kam. I wish I was seeing the same this year.
I'm relishing this year and believe in Shaka...just think it will be difficult to keep this high level of success without someone with the passing and scoring ability of Kam or TKO.
I'm terrified about next year.
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2024, 04:51:24 PMOh, so next year issues.
It's only 9 days away, buddy.
If you're not afraid, you're not paying attention.
Quote from: barfolomew on December 23, 2024, 05:03:37 PMIt's only 9 days away, buddy.
If you're not afraid, you're not paying attention.
Great call.
Next season issues.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 05:00:00 PMAgreed, but it looks different when you PG isn't initiating the offense the way MU plays.
How has the offense looked this year without Kam? That is with Jop and Stevie still available. When TKO went down...we looked good with Kam. I wish I was seeing the same this year.
I'm relishing this year and believe in Shaka...just think it will be difficult to keep this high level of success without someone with the passing and scoring ability of Kam or TKO.
I think you'll see other guys step up and show skills they haven't needed to yet. We're on our way to being a top ten team for the third year in a row. Mid way through last year and the year before Kam was inconsistent and only was scoring in bunches against lower level BE teams. Some here were calling for his minutes to be reduced.
I'll believe Shaka will figure it out until he doesn't.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 05:00:00 PMHow has the offense looked this year without Kam?
Last year at this time did you think you'd be saying that? My guess is not.
I trust the coaching staff and development.
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2024, 05:18:48 PMI trust the coaching staff and development.
Foolish, they haven't shown us anything
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2024, 05:18:48 PMI trust the coaching staff and development.
Do you think they have any concerns with the PG spot next year?
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 05:55:48 PMDo you think they have any concerns with the PG spot next year?
I think they have a plan.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 23, 2024, 06:03:20 PMI think they have a plan.
Oh, ok...nevermind...I didn't realize this. This is really good to know. I've been told God has a plan as well.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 05:55:48 PMDo you think they have any concerns with the PG spot next year?
I think that Sean will be ready and raring to go. I think Tre, with a healthy offseason, will be a revelation. I think that Nigel will not be handed the keys, but will challenge Sean and Tre every day. I think the offense will be adapted so that a line up of Gold, Ross, Owens, Parham, and PG will be an absolute beast by the middle of the season, if a little clunky at the beginning.
So, no, I don't think they are worried about the PG spot. Just like this season compared to last, it will be different. But it will still be a 5 out motion that can make 3s throughout.
I certainly do not think they are worried about it enough to do a bag drop on a portal PG.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 23, 2024, 05:55:48 PMDo you think they have any concerns with the PG spot next year?
I think they have concerns. Sean is coming off an injury and is a poor shooter. Tre hasn't shown he's anywhere near ready. Nigel will be a freshman. But I also think they believe in their ability re player development.
Worrying about next year when MU is 11-2 and ranked 8th in the country is peak scoop.......
I'll just enjoy this season and be thankful that Shaka is in charge.........every season is a new challenge and always will be.
Quote from: MuMark on December 23, 2024, 07:11:30 PMWorrying about next year when MU is 11-2 and ranked 8th in the country is peak scoop.......
I'll just enjoy this season and be thankful that Shaka is in charge.........every season is a new challenge and always will be.
I'm worried about next year and terrified what happens in two years
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2024, 06:30:38 PMI think that Sean will be ready and raring to go. I think Tre, with a healthy offseason, will be a revelation. I think that Nigel will not be handed the keys, but will challenge Sean and Tre every day. I think the offense will be adapted so that a line up of Gold, Ross, Owens, Parham, and PG will be an absolute beast by the middle of the season, if a little clunky at the beginning.
So, no, I don't think they are worried about the PG spot. Just like this season compared to last, it will be different. But it will still be a 5 out motion that can make 3s throughout.
I certainly do not think they are worried about it enough to do a bag drop on a portal PG.
I think you will be right on much if not all of this. I especially hope you are right on Tre. I haven't seen enough glimpses of him handling the ball at a high enough level for a point guard or scoring the ball well enough at this early stage in his career to be as confident as you. I do like his size. I also like how he is developing on D. Hoping to see continued improvement the rest of this season from him, Zaide and the freshman. And if Tre is a revelation next year that will be a huge bonus.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 23, 2024, 07:12:16 PMI'm worried about next year and terrified what happens in two years
Shaka has NO IDEA who will be on this team in six years. How is that acceptable?
Quote from: MuMark on December 23, 2024, 07:11:30 PMWorrying about next year when MU is 11-2 and ranked 8th in the country is peak scoop.......
I'll just enjoy this season and be thankful that Shaka is in charge.........every season is a new challenge and always will be.
So true.
Quote from: MuMark on December 23, 2024, 07:11:30 PMWorrying about next year when MU is 11-2 and ranked 8th in the country is peak scoop.......
I'll just enjoy this season and be thankful that Shaka is in charge.........every season is a new challenge and always will be.
Sh1t. Sorry, by stating that I'm loving this year and our coaches, but am not sold that Sean (the topic of this thread) or others on this team can take over at PG when the season is over clearly shows I'm looking past this year. It will probably cost MU multiple wins and my happiness will be considerably lower. Let's shut down the recruiting thread as well. Worry about this season only. Sorry for putting us on the bubble.
Go ahead and worry. It is your right. I would have it no other way. Don't feel insulted when others use their right to challenge your opinion. After all, you are challenging their right to focus on the now instead of next season.
Go big on it. Elaborate on your points, cite data, triple down. Don't be offended it was challenged. Defend it.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 24, 2024, 07:08:57 AMSh1t. Sorry, by stating that I'm loving this year and our coaches, but am not sold that Sean (the topic of this thread) or others on this team can take over at PG when the season is over clearly shows I'm looking past this year. It will probably cost MU multiple wins and my happiness will be considerably lower. Let's shut down the recruiting thread as well. Worry about this season only. Sorry for putting us on the bubble.
You asked a simple question:does the board think Shaka and staff has some level of concern about the PG position for next year. It's a fair and good question. Maybe those mocking you for asking it are incapable of considering the future while enjoying the present, but Shaka is an extremely capable guy who can multi task. He can coach this year's team, plan a bit for next year and recruit for 2026. So yeah, I think there is some level of concern and there should be.
There was some level of concern after the best PG in a very long while left. Many wished Shaka would go into the portal even though some knew he wouldn't.
This season the offense has been initiated by: Kam, Chase, Tre, Zaide, Ben, etc.
Shaka adapts and gets the most out of his players, including next year's PG.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 24, 2024, 08:53:38 AMThere was some level of concern after the best PG in a very long while left. Many wished Shaka would go into the portal even though some knew he wouldn't.
This season the offense has been initiated by: Kam, Chase, Tre, Zaide, Ben, etc.
Shaka adapts and gets the most out of his players, including next year's PG.
I had a little concern, even after seeing that Kam was up to the challenge last year. Your post covers a lot. If we had a coach who was going to the portal for players and losing some to it, I would be a bit nervous. Portal players do not always work out for a number of reasons. Shaka weaves together the current season with the future seasons in terms of not just recruiting but especially player development. He'll figure it out, just as he has so far.
At this point in "college athletics", Sean could be playing at age 26 and it wouldn't be seen as very odd. Take your time, yung soldja
Quote from: tower912 on December 24, 2024, 07:11:59 AMGo ahead and worry. It is your right. I would have it no other way. Don't feel insulted when others use their right to challenge your opinion. After all, you are challenging their right to focus on the now instead of next season.
Go big on it. Elaborate on your points, cite data, triple down. Don't be offended it was challenged. Defend it.
You want me to pull stats on my right to talk about next season? I don't think I need to defend the rationale to discuss next season's pg on a message board.
As far as next year. I like what I saw when TKO went out last year. I don't like what I see when Kam goes out this year. I don't like that Sean has missed out on a great deal of opportunity to get in game experience in non-conference play, and I worry about our sophomore recruiting class. Do I think Shaka can adjust the same way he has with the difference between Oso and Gold...of course...but within reason. I would feel better if we were seeing Sean play or Tre develop. I'm not losing sleep...just an observation.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 24, 2024, 10:53:32 AMAt this point in "college athletics", Sean could be playing at age 26 and it wouldn't be seen as very odd. Take your time, yung soldja
The amount of 26 year-olds in college basketball is ruining the sport.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 24, 2024, 07:08:57 AMSh1t. Sorry, by stating that I'm loving this year and our coaches, but am not sold that Sean (the topic of this thread) or others on this team can take over at PG when the season is over clearly shows I'm looking past this year. It will probably cost MU multiple wins and my happiness will be considerably lower. Let's shut down the recruiting thread as well. Worry about this season only. Sorry for putting us on the bubble.
You obviously can worry about whatever you want.......i just find these kind of threads strange in the middle of a great season.
It's just not the way I choose to process things but everyone is different.
I don't think your point about eliminating the recruiting thread is remotely the same thing however.....that is just sharing information about future players that we are in fact recruiting..........it's just news that I enjoy sharing with my fellow MU fans.
Anyway......Merry Christmas to all!
I would have Sean play as soon as he's able and no worry about burning the year of eligibility. This team could make a run and Sean coming off the bench would make them better. He'll still have his senior year next season and honestly I wouldn't be concerned any further out than that
Quote from: NotAnAlum on December 24, 2024, 01:52:21 PMI would have Sean play as soon as he's able and no worry about burning the year of eligibility. This team could make a run and Sean coming off the bench would make them better. He'll still have his senior year next season and honestly I wouldn't be concerned any further out than that
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 23, 2024, 07:12:16 PMI'm worried about next year and terrified what happens in two years
I will stop worrying about the future once Wardle comes home
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 24, 2024, 02:34:57 PMI will stop worrying about the future once Wardle comes home
Worried about what comes with infinite success?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 23, 2024, 07:12:16 PMI'm worried about next year and terrified what happens in two years
I'm more concerned about 2032. Seems like Shaka has no plan for that season.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 25, 2024, 12:06:31 AMI'm more concerned about 2032. Seems like Shaka has no plan for that season.
I believe that is Luka's class, but heard he was held back already,cannot confirm.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 24, 2024, 08:18:46 AMYou asked a simple question:does the board think Shaka and staff has some level of concern about the PG position for next year. It's a fair and good question. Maybe those mocking you for asking it are incapable of considering the future while enjoying the present, but Shaka is an extremely capable guy who can multi task. He can coach this year's team, plan a bit for next year and recruit for 2026. So yeah, I think there is some level of concern and there should be.
agreed. I read an article where Nick Saban said coaches in today's wide open world of portal madness have to look ahead at least two years. Estimating, forecasting, prognosticating. For Marquette, does JTY (thx Muggs) come back with his quickness intact? Is he a 25-30 mpg guy next season? If so, would his size be exploited? Does Tre take the next step, or is this it? How 'bout Zaide? How 'bout Hamilton? Love where the team is as of today, but I agree with Saban that tomorrow needs to be considered too.
Call me crazy, but I have a feeling Shaka does have an idea of what the future looks like and has plans for next year and beyond. But maybe some Scoopers are right and he's completely lost. After all, he is just 1-3 against RED.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 25, 2024, 04:20:35 PMCall me crazy, but I have a feeling Shaka does have an idea of what the future looks like and has plans for next year and beyond. But maybe some Scoopers are right and he's completely lost. After all, he is just 1-3 against RED.
I'll say it again, we need Wardle. Shaka has no clue.
I trust Shaka has a plan. I doubt he is worried.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on December 24, 2024, 01:52:21 PMI would have Sean play as soon as he's able and no worry about burning the year of eligibility. This team could make a run and Sean coming off the bench would make them better. He'll still have his senior year next season and honestly I wouldn't be concerned any further out than that
Yes but Sean has a say in it too.......Shaka isn't going to make him play if he decides he'd rather have 2 full healthy seasons.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 25, 2024, 04:20:35 PMCall me crazy, but I have a feeling Shaka does have an idea of what the future looks like and has plans for next year and beyond. But maybe some Scoopers are right and he's completely lost. After all, he is just 1-3 against RED.
Which Scoopers have claimed Shaka is completely lost? Or doesn't have plans for next year or an idea of what the future looks like? Asking if he has a concern about a particular position for next year doesn't suggest that at all.
We've been in the top-10 three years running using a development model. Many thought we would fall off without Justin and Morsell, same when Kolek and Oso left, yet here we are again.
That's because when the first class left, the staff saw not what was gone, but what was back and developed the roster accordingly. And when TK & Oso left, they had Kam & Ben in place and trusted them to carry on. So maybe when Kam, Jop, and Stevie go, they have an idea of what they are bringing back and how they'll develop them to reach another ceiling that (once again) could be higher than the one before.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 25, 2024, 05:56:41 PMWhich Scoopers have claimed Shaka is completely lost? Or doesn't have plans for next year or an idea of what the future looks like? Asking if he has a concern about a particular position for next year doesn't suggest that at all.
Yeah, I trust that Shaka is a good coach and will figure something out. But that doesn't change that Sean and Tre both don't look like starters next year and they probably were recruited to be that. So it's reasonable to wonder and guess about how we'll handle that position next year. Owens can handle the ball but is he a primary playmaker? Could Tre be kind of a hybrid where he's a defensive stopper and has a reduced offensive role of just bringing it up and then waiting in the corner?
Nobody puts baby in the corner
18 regular season games to go.this season, so minimum 19 remaining. A lot of golf left to be played.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 25, 2024, 06:43:04 PMWe've been in the top-10 three years running using a development model. Many thought we would fall off without Justin and Morsell, same when Kolek and Oso left, yet here we are again.
That's because when the first class left, the staff saw not what was gone, but what was back and developed the roster accordingly. And when TK & Oso left, they had Kam & Ben in place and trusted them to carry on. So maybe when Kam, Jop, and Stevie go, they have an idea of what they are bringing back and how they'll develop them to reach another ceiling that (once again) could be higher than the one before.
(https://c.tenor.com/rZvPJPJyeSUAAAAM/this-is-me-not-buying-it.gif)
Quote from: tower912 on December 25, 2024, 05:24:17 PMI trust Shaka has a plan. I doubt he is worried.
No he doesn't, he has never had a plan!!! We need Wardle period.
Quote from: THRILLHO on December 25, 2024, 07:25:14 PMYeah, I trust that Shaka is a good coach and will figure something out. But that doesn't change that Sean and Tre both don't look like starters next year and they probably were recruited to be that. So it's reasonable to wonder and guess about how we'll handle that position next year. Owens can handle the ball but is he a primary playmaker? Could Tre be kind of a hybrid where he's a defensive stopper and has a reduced offensive role of just bringing it up and then waiting in the corner?
Did Stevie look like a starter after his freshman year? Did Omax look like a starter after not being a rotational player as a freshman at Clemson? Did he look like a first round pick after his first year at MU when he averaged 6 points a game?
Guys develop at different rates.......I trust Shaka to figure it out.........one way or another.
We better not schedule Radford next year is what I'm hearing
Sometimes you guys amaze me.
We don't seem to give anyone credit for growing into the roles they're going to be pushed to assume. We assume what you see is what you get.
If Coach Shaka has proven anything in the four years he's been at Marquette, it's that our players grow into their roles. When Tyler transferred in, did anyone think he would someday be drafted and play in the NBA? Well, maybe Tyler did! Ditto for Oso. He was a borderline Wojo reclamation project when Coach Shaka arrived. He too, is in the NBA.
Our guys will grow and I suspect many of you will be surprised at how much they'll grow. Relationships, Growth, Victory. Remember???
You say it very eloquently, dgies.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 26, 2024, 09:54:41 AMSometimes you guys amaze me.
We don't seem to give anyone credit for growing into the roles they're going to be pushed to assume. We assume what you see is what you get.
If Coach Shaka has proven anything in the four years he's been at Marquette, it's that our players grow into their roles. When Tyler transferred in, did anyone think he would someday be drafted and play in the NBA? Well, maybe Tyler did! Ditto for Oso. He was a borderline Wojo reclamation project when Coach Shaka arrived. He too, is in the NBA.
Our guys will grow and I suspect many of you will be surprised at how much they'll grow. Relationships, Growth, Victory. Remember???
I think it's very possible we see growth from current players and still take a step back next year without a PG that can do what Kam or TKO can do in the half-court action. Obviously Shaka and Nevada will have a plan, but I think the sophomore class and Sean's injury is going to bite us a bit.
Nothing I lose sleep over. I'm good if we're dancing in March, have a classy coach, and get to watch kids develop at MU for multiple years.
Quote from: THRILLHO on December 25, 2024, 07:25:14 PMYeah, I trust that Shaka is a good coach and will figure something out. But that doesn't change that Sean and Tre both don't look like starters next year and they probably were recruited to be that. So it's reasonable to wonder and guess about how we'll handle that position next year. Owens can handle the ball but is he a primary playmaker? Could Tre be kind of a hybrid where he's a defensive stopper and has a reduced offensive role of just bringing it up and then waiting in the corner?
I have no issue wondering about the PG position next season, its our job as fans, but i don't think we can say "Sean doesnt look like a starter" when we haven't seen him play in a year.
Personally I'm not particularly worried about PG next season. We have 4 options currently projected to be on the roster: Sean, Tre, Damarius, and Nigel. One has been injured all season, one isn't on the roster yet, and two had significant injuries in the offseason that hampered their development. I say all this because what they look like now doesn't matter much to me. With a full offseason, I trust the staff to develop at least 25% of them into good to great starting PGs. Personally, my money is on Damarius beimgn the primary ball handler next season
Quote from: avid1010 on December 26, 2024, 11:47:15 AMI think it's very possible we see growth from current players and still take a step back next year without a PG that can do what Kam or TKO can do in the half-court action. Obviously Shaka and Nevada will have a plan, but I think the sophomore class and Sean's injury is going to bite us a bit.
Nothing I lose sleep over. I'm good if we're dancing in March, have a classy coach, and get to watch kids develop at MU for multiple years.
MU certainly could take a step back next season........it happens to just about every program from time to time.....I don't think any of us expect 2/3 seeds to be the norm every year going forward.
this thread is taking a turn for the COLE...
Quote from: MuMark on December 26, 2024, 12:27:39 PMMU certainly could take a step back next season........it happens to just about every program from time to time.....I don't think any of us expect 2/3 seeds to be the norm every year going forward.
Honestly, I don't think there's any reason 2/3 seeds can't be the norm. A year here and there where we step back? For sure. But if Gonzaga and Nova can do it, so can we. And we're likely looking at three straight years of it. That's a trend.
Dgies, regarding your comments about Oso...
"He was a borderline Wojo reclamation project when Coach Shaka arrived."
Ouch! ;D
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 26, 2024, 09:54:41 AMSometimes you guys amaze me.
We don't seem to give anyone credit for growing into the roles they're going to be pushed to assume. We assume what you see is what you get.
If Coach Shaka has proven anything in the four years he's been at Marquette, it's that our players grow into their roles. When Tyler transferred in, did anyone think he would someday be drafted and play in the NBA? Well, maybe Tyler did! Ditto for Oso. He was a borderline Wojo reclamation project when Coach Shaka arrived. He too, is in the NBA.
Our guys will grow and I suspect many of you will be surprised at how much they'll grow. Relationships, Growth, Victory. Remember???
Shaka slurper
Quote from: tower912 on December 26, 2024, 10:08:54 AMYou say it very eloquently, dgies.
Just putting MU journalism to good use
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 26, 2024, 01:17:48 PMShaka slurper
What has Shaka ever won? Everyone here acts like he's a coaching God, the equivalent to Zeus up on high but he's basically no better than Brain Wordle who you all mock. He doesn't even use all his tight ends or slap Jaloplin and lets GoooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllddddddddddddðddddddddddddddddddbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbrrrrřrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiĩiiiiiiiiiîiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicccccccćccccccccccccccccccccccccćkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkKkkkkkkkķkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk shoot 3's and we can't question him
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on December 26, 2024, 01:15:48 PMDgies, regarding your comments about Oso...
"He was a borderline Wojo reclamation project when Coach Shaka arrived."
Ouch! ;D
He's not wrong.
Let's see how things go when our backcourt isn't stud Wojo recruits
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 26, 2024, 03:40:56 PMLet's see how things go when our backcourt isn't stud Wojo recruits
(https://media.tenor.com/LLLJYVQJNVAAAAAM/chefs-kiss-french-chef.gif)
Quote from: BM1090 on December 26, 2024, 01:13:47 PMHonestly, I don't think there's any reason 2/3 seeds can't be the norm. A year here and there where we step back? For sure. But if Gonzaga and Nova can do it, so can we. And we're likely looking at three straight years of it. That's a trend.
Important to note how many years of consistency it took before that happened. I mean pre modern big east nova was a powerhouse and had multiple recent postseason runs and success but not nearly the level they were 14-22 and Zags had like one great seed for something like 15yrs before they were consistently a top 5 seed.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 26, 2024, 05:20:06 PMImportant to note how many years of consistency it took before that happened. I mean pre modern big east nova was a powerhouse and had multiple recent postseason runs and success but not nearly the level they were 14-22 and Zags had like one great seed for something like 15yrs before they were consistently a top 5 seed.
For sure. And I'm certain we will have down years. But there's no reason 2-3 seeds can't be a reasonable goal most years. We're already accomplishing tha
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 26, 2024, 11:51:01 AMI have no issue wondering about the PG position next season, its our job as fans, but i don't think we can say "Sean doesnt look like a starter" when we haven't seen him play in a year.
Personally I'm not particularly worried about PG next season. We have 4 options currently projected to be on the roster: Sean, Tre, Damarius, and Nigel. One has been injured all season, one isn't on the roster yet, and two had significant injuries in the offseason that hampered their development. I say all this because what they look like now doesn't matter much to me. With a full offseason, I trust the staff to develop at least 25% of them into good to great starting PGs. Personally, my money is on Damarius beimgn the primary ball handler next season
I appreciate that this is exactly the spirit I was going for. Whatever happens I think the team will be fun and competitive, but it's fun to speculate about the _how_. The reason I think Sean didn't look like he would be good enough to be a starter is he didn't look like he would be a starter last year, and he's coming off an ACL injury which sometimes takes two years to get back to full strength, so I'm just not optimistic. My best hope is that Tre improves enough as a shooter to where he can play with Owens and have more equally distributed playmaking than this year. The past two years TK and Kam have been all timers at distribution, but it doesn't have to work that way. Of course maybe Nigel will come in and seize the position, that would be awesome! But I've learned to temper my optimism for freshmen contributing. I think Owens can do it, but that's actually the least desirable option because then we'll have 3 point guard sized guys on the bench for one backups worth of minutes.
Just to be clear to those who can't handle discussion, I don't doubt Shaka's ability to make the most of it, I'm not trembling in fear, I just think it's interesting to game out the possibilities and discuss Shaka's options. I think all four options are better than going to the portal, which is a credit to Shaka's roster management.
My guess is Shaka uses the portal this coming off season. Needs to find players who can consistently make 3 pointers.
Quote from: Herman Cain on December 26, 2024, 10:35:29 PMMy guess is Shaka uses the portal this coming off season. Needs to find players who can consistently make 3 pointers.
🤣🤣🤣
Quote from: Herman Cain on December 26, 2024, 10:35:29 PMMy guess is Shaka uses the portal this coming off season. Needs to find players who can consistently make 3 pointers.
It's easy to say who to go get, but where does the scholarship (and PT) come from?
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 25, 2024, 06:43:04 PMWe've been in the top-10 three years running using a development model. Many thought we would fall off without Justin and Morsell, same when Kolek and Oso left, yet here we are again.
That's because when the first class left, the staff saw not what was gone, but what was back and developed the roster accordingly. And when TK & Oso left, they had Kam & Ben in place and trusted them to carry on. So maybe when Kam, Jop, and Stevie go, they have an idea of what they are bringing back and how they'll develop them to reach another ceiling that (once again) could be higher than the one before.
Like the optimism here, yet there isn't one guy on the roster now who will be a First Team All-American next year at the PG position, which is the most important position on the floor. TKO and Kam are two of the best ever to come through the doors at MU.
If next year's team somehow reaches a higher ceiling than this year's team, or last year's team, Shaka's contract should immediately be doubled in compensation. A little hyperbole there, but if he can sustain a Top 10 caliber team after losing Kam, that will effectively move him into Top 5 coaches in the game in my view.
That aside I think we will be good next year, but perhaps a "down" year in the range of Top 20-30. So, I sure hope this year's team can breakthrough and chase a Final Four/Championship.
Same thing was said for this year after losing two NBA players.
Down year......should be in top 25 for most of year....
Been top ten most of the year.
Quote from: THRILLHO on December 26, 2024, 11:28:39 PMIt's easy to say who to go get, but where does the scholarship (and PT) come from?
one spot opens due to a transfer out.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 27, 2024, 08:07:40 AMLike the optimism here, yet there isn't one guy on the roster now who will be a First Team All-American next year at the PG position, which is the most important position on the floor. TKO and Kam are two of the best ever to come through the doors at MU.
No one had Tyler as a two time All-American in 2022 and there were plenty of doubts about the position last year, certainly before the Sean and TK injuries that forced Kam into the role for 6 games.
Maybe Chase takes a Kam turn. Maybe a healthy Norman breaks out. Maybe Sean returns even better. Maybe Owens takes over the PG role that he's already played with the second unit in practice. Maybe James is way more instant impact than his ranking indicates.
Maybe none of that happens and we fall off, but after 4 years this staff has done a pretty good job of proving preseason critics wrong, and a smart gambler would have made a lot more money betting on overachievement than disappointment.
Quote from: Herman Cain on December 26, 2024, 10:35:29 PMMy guess is Shaka uses the portal this coming off season. Needs to find players who can consistently make 3 pointers.
My guess is that Miletic portals from HS to Marquette.
Shaka has made his views very clear about the portal. Why do scoopers like you and others continue to second guess him?
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 27, 2024, 08:07:40 AMLike the optimism here, yet there isn't one guy on the roster now who will be a First Team All-American next year at the PG position, which is the most important position on the floor. TKO and Kam are two of the best ever to come through the doors at MU.
If next year's team somehow reaches a higher ceiling than this year's team, or last year's team, Shaka's contract should immediately be doubled in compensation. A little hyperbole there, but if he can sustain a Top 10 caliber team after losing Kam, that will effectively move him into Top 5 coaches in the game in my view.
That aside I think we will be good next year, but perhaps a "down" year in the range of Top 20-30. So, I sure hope this year's team can breakthrough and chase a Final Four/Championship.
Literally every year of Shaka as coach, a general concensus was "worse then last year" and every year scoop has been wrong.
*than
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on December 27, 2024, 09:30:02 AMMy guess is that Miletic portals from HS to Marquette.
Shaka has made his views very clear about the portal. Why do scoopers like you and others continue to second guess him?
Because Fans Are Idiots
Maybe Chase takes a Kam turn. Maybe a healthy Norman breaks out. Maybe Sean returns even better. Maybe Owens takes over the PG role that he's already played with the second unit in practice. Maybe James is way more instant impact than his ranking indicates.
Brew,
I hope you and others are right on Tre (if injury has held him back this is likely) And I like this take on Chase, Owens, Sean and James. It's not totally out of the question that a freshman will have an impact like another James once did. Shaka knows what he is doing. Taking a brief step back is inevitable at some point but likely a step back is still a tournament bid regardless. I'm enjoying the ride.
I have a ton of confidence in Shaka and his staff to develop players. He has earned that. That said, I think its fair to look at the roster next year and have some concerns. Will be interesting to see how things play out.
Here's to another year of success.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 27, 2024, 09:20:55 AMNo one had Tyler as a two time All-American in 2022 and there were plenty of doubts about the position last year, certainly before the Sean and TK injuries that forced Kam into the role for 6 games.
Maybe Chase takes a Kam turn. Maybe a healthy Norman breaks out. Maybe Sean returns even better. Maybe Owens takes over the PG role that he's already played with the second unit in practice. Maybe James is way more instant impact than his ranking indicates.
Maybe none of that happens and we fall off, but after 4 years this staff has done a pretty good job of proving preseason critics wrong, and a smart gambler would have made a lot more money betting on overachievement than disappointment.
This team just has so much talent and a culture that cannot be measured. I expect them to fight for a tournament bid every single season.
Chase and Damarius are NBA talents. All of their guards will defend at a very high level. They will have 2 true PGs in Sean and Nigel. They will have a real 7 footer that they haven't had in a very very long time in Clark. Miletic and Phillips are elite shooters.
Just way too much to work with. Sorry that not everyone can see it.
As a fan, I will worry about next year after we play our last game of the season.
I think Shaka will do what is best for the program. If he doesn't think he has a capable point guard, he will go out and get one. If he does, he won't. I will say with 100% certainty that Shaka will at some point in time, go into the portal and get someone. When? Who knows but it will happen.
PG:
5'11" - Sean Jones
6'0" - Nigel James
Wings:
6'5" - Chase Ross
6'5" - Zaide Lowery
6'4" - Tre Norman
6'4" - Adrien Stevens
Wings/Forwards:
6'8" - Damarius Owens
6'6" - Ian Miletic
6'6" - Michael Phillips
Forwards:
6'11" - Ben Gold
6'9" - Al Amadou
6'8" - Royce Parham
C:
7'0" - Josh Clark
6'9" - Caedin Hamilton
A roster with a deep and versatile skillset with room to develop. Another great Marquette roster. Enjoy 2024-2025 for now!!!
Adrien Stevens can play some PG too. Plays it both for his AAU team and his HS team. He may end up being a better fit off the ball at Marquette, but I would include him when discussing guys who could potentially help with some ball handling duties next year as well.
Quote from: Big Papi on December 27, 2024, 10:50:11 AMAs a fan, I will worry about next year after we play our last game of the season.
I think Shaka will do what is best for the program. If he doesn't think he has a capable point guard, he will go out and get one. If he does, he won't. I will say with 100% certainty that Shaka will at some point in time, go into the portal and get someone. When? Who knows but it will happen.
If Shaka ever decides to go get a transfer(which barring season ending injuries I find slim to none) I believe it will be a recruit that Shaka followed and built a relationship with whom he tried to get the first time around. He won't be looking at the top ten list of available transfers like some wish to believe.
I like the patient progress plan for Sean. He'll know, then we'll know. In the meantime, Tre is getting valuable minutes: his improvement in defense, ball handling and putbacks is noticeable.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 27, 2024, 11:11:24 AMIf Shaka ever decides to go get a transfer(which barring season ending injuries I find slim to none) I believe it will be a recruit that Shaka followed and built a relationship with whom he tried to get the first time around. He won't be looking at the top ten list of available transfers like some wish to believe.
This is pretty close to what I think also. To be clear, I do
not think Shaka going to the portal is something that will simply never, ever happen. But I believe that IF he does, it will be along the lines of what you wrote.
I look at DO, Parham, Gold, and Chase as 4 likely starters. With the glimpses we have seen and another offseason of work, if ever there was a starting line up that only required a caretaker point guard, that one is it. Get them into their first action and jump on the merry go round.
Between Sean, Tre, and Nigel, no worries.
Re: Sean's decision--what's the opportunity cost for another year in school versus going overseas to play with NIL on the table? Is playing internationally more or less lucrative than what he would make for an extra year at Marquette? For guys that don't really have a path to the NBA, is it just as good to be playing/starring at your college for a year longer? I have to imagine that is the case and why you see guys like Eric Dixon, etc., sticking around for 5th/6th years.
If that is the case AND Sean is struggling mentally to feel like he can play at his full-speed, it makes a lot more sense for him to keep the redshirt on for this season. And, while the team could use him, it is not like they are hovering at .500 right now without him.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on December 27, 2024, 11:36:21 AMThis is pretty close to what I think also. To be clear, I do not think Shaka going to the portal is something that will simply never, ever happen. But I believe that IF he does, it will be along the lines of what you wrote.
After listening to Shaka's recent interview where he talked about one of his favorite players he ever recruited but didn't land entering the portal, and saying they still didn't pursue them because they didn't want to mess with the roster, I wonder if they might avoid the portal altogether.
Quote from: MUMountin on December 27, 2024, 12:27:50 PMRe: Sean's decision--what's the opportunity cost for another year in school versus going overseas to play with NIL on the table? Is playing internationally more or less lucrative than what he would make for an extra year at Marquette? For guys that don't really have a path to the NBA, is it just as good to be playing/starring at your college for a year longer? I have to imagine that is the case and why you see guys like Eric Dixon, etc., sticking around for 5th/6th years.
If that is the case AND Sean is struggling mentally to feel like he can play at his full-speed, it makes a lot more sense for him to keep the redshirt on for this season. And, while the team could use him, it is not like they are hovering at .500 right now without him.
Perhaps more may go into his decision, his family's decision and the staff's decision in addition to money. I don't know Sean.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 27, 2024, 01:12:35 PMAfter listening to Shaka's recent interview where he talked about one of his favorite players he ever recruited but didn't land entering the portal, and saying they still didn't pursue them because they didn't want to mess with the roster, I wonder if they might avoid the portal altogether.
I think Shaka was being charitable. If it's who I'm thinking of, he'd come in at a position of depth with no perimeter game to speak of.
Now if a former legacy recruit hits the portal I'd be interested to see if there would be interest.
We got this.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 27, 2024, 01:34:32 PMNow if a former legacy recruit hits the portal I'd be interested to see if there would be interest.
Isaiah Abraham? Were we even in his Final Cut?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 27, 2024, 09:41:44 AMBecause Fans Are Idiots
I mean some are talking to Herman :o
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 27, 2024, 09:59:19 AMMaybe Chase takes a Kam turn. Maybe a healthy Norman breaks out. Maybe Sean returns even better. Maybe Owens takes over the PG role that he's already played with the second unit in practice. Maybe James is way more instant impact than his ranking indicates.
Brew,
I hope you and others are right on Tre (if injury has held him back this is likely) And I like this take on Chase, Owens, Sean and James. It's not totally out of the question that a freshman will have an impact like another James once did. Shaka knows what he is doing. Taking a brief step back is inevitable at some point but likely a step back is still a tournament bid regardless. I'm enjoying the ride.
I believe Chase could be the primary PG, with others in the roster playing PG. Chase has played PG role some minutes this year.
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 27, 2024, 04:21:47 PMI believe Chase could be the primary PG, with others in the roster playing PG. Chase has played PG role some minutes this year.
I have liked him handling the ball to initiate offense this year giving Kam a break. Not sure how he would handle pressure consistently but so far so good.
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 27, 2024, 04:21:47 PMI believe Chase could be the primary PG, with others in the roster playing PG. Chase has played PG role some minutes this year.
Chase is a multi-talented player, however, I don't see PG role or skills to be among his talents. I see Damarius as having more PG skill/potential than Chase.
That aside, Sean Jones, assuming a full recovery, will be our best pure PG next year.
Quote from: tower912 on December 27, 2024, 12:04:44 PMI look at DO, Parham, Gold, and Chase as 4 likely starters. With the glimpses we have seen and another offseason of work, if ever there was a starting line up that only required a caretaker point guard, that one is it. Get them into their first action and jump on the merry go round.
Between Sean, Tre, and Nigel, no worries.
Good point and post.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 27, 2024, 05:19:43 PMChase is a multi-talented player, however, I don't see PG role or skills to be among his talents. I see Damarius as having more PG skill/potential than Chase.
That aside, Sean Jones, assuming a full recovery, will be our best pure PG next year.
Agreed. I remember being amazed by how comfortable and fluid DO looked handling the ball during one of the buy games.
This idea of "Shaka won't take a transfer unless there are some crazy injury issues"... is crazy to me. I don't buy it.
I would be very surprised if Owens is the primary point next year. He doesn't even play it now.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 27, 2024, 06:20:15 PMThis idea of "Shaka won't take a transfer unless there are some crazy injury issues"... is crazy to me. I don't buy it.
Is this bait? What has Shaka said (or done) on the subject that makes you think he would take a transfer from the portal unless there is a gaping hole in the roster?
Based on Shaka's words, for him to take a transfer, they have to be markedly better, a good fit for the culture, and not looking for a bag drop.
Quote from: tower912 on December 27, 2024, 06:37:24 PMIs this bait? What has Shaka said (or done) on the subject that makes you think he would take a transfer from the portal unless there is a gaping hole in the roster?
Based on Shaka's words, for him to take a transfer, they have to be markedly better, a good fit for the culture, and not looking for a bag drop.
I think you answered your own question. A transfer can be markedly better, a good fit for the culture, and not looking for a bag drop regardless of "some crazy injury issues". It's a small pool for sure, but they do exist.
BTW this made me look up the international player that Shaka kicked the tires on this summer...currently warming the bench for Florida Atlantic. Looks like he didn't fulfill the "markedly better" criteria
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 27, 2024, 05:19:43 PMChase is a multi-talented player, however, I don't see PG role or skills to be among his talents. I see Damarius as having more PG skill/potential than Chase.
That aside, Sean Jones, assuming a full recovery, will be our best pure PG next year.
We will see, but I have noticed him being eased into that role when Kam is off the ball. Stevie too but he won't be here next year.
Haha well Jaybee....
Interesting photo...(see #6)
https://www.instagram.com/p/DEL4AaUtJxO/?img_index=5&igsh=MXB6YjI0a24ydTMzcg== (https://www.instagram.com/p/DEL4AaUtJxO/?img_index=5&igsh=MXB6YjI0a24ydTMzcg==)
Quote from: JakeBarnes on December 29, 2024, 10:57:39 PMInteresting photo...(see #6)
Looks like a guy not mentally prepared to play.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 29, 2024, 11:30:49 PMLooks like a guy not mentally prepared to play.
Thinking the same thing.
That would be nice.
I got a good feeling about Sean coming back soon
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 30, 2024, 07:13:45 AMI got a good feeling about Sean coming back soon
Yep. If he was weeks away, or considering redshift, he wouldn't be a fully engaged full participant in practice.
Those reps are valuable and reserved for the guys Shaka is counting on to contribute in the immediate future.
Quote from: 94Warrior on December 30, 2024, 07:43:52 AMYep. If he was weeks away, or considering redshift, he wouldn't be a fully engaged full participant in practice.
Those reps are valuable and reserved for the guys Shaka is counting on to contribute in the immediate future.
If Sean's considering redshift, would that make him a star?
Quote from: #UnleashSean on December 27, 2024, 09:39:57 AMLiterally every year of Shaka as coach, a general concensus was "worse then last year" and every year scoop has been wrong.
Let's not forget the "will only score in the 50's" year as extra special scoop...
It's been a long road to recovery, and by all accounts it seems like SJ22 is a true warrior.
Cant wait to see him step back onto the court, should be an amazing feeling for him.
Honestly doesn't matter one bit to me how much he's able to contribute for the rest of the season, just want him to be happy, healthy, and feel accomplished.
His grit and determination is contribution enough
I find it interesting that he doesn't even have a brace on his knee.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on December 29, 2024, 10:57:39 PMInteresting photo...(see #6)
https://www.instagram.com/p/DEL4AaUtJxO/?img_index=5&igsh=MXB6YjI0a24ydTMzcg== (https://www.instagram.com/p/DEL4AaUtJxO/?img_index=5&igsh=MXB6YjI0a24ydTMzcg==)
At first glance it looked to my old eyes like he had a big bloody bandage on his ear. I was wondering what that was about.
Don't forget photo #8 in that group.
I'm hoping that a bit of rest served him well and he's ready go get back on the floor.
Per Shaka he has been participating in full practice and it is up to Sean to decide
JTY excellent on defense, will help the squad immensely he returns.
Creighton 1/3 or Georgetown 1/7 return is my guess.
All up to him
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 30, 2024, 04:29:13 PMCreighton 1/3 or Georgetown 1/7 return is my guess.
I think we see him 12/31. He needed that last 10 days to get more comfortable and confident. He looks ready.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 30, 2024, 05:26:45 PMHa!
Per Shaka has been cleared to play physically. Up to him once he is mentally ready
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 30, 2024, 05:30:08 PMPer Shaka has been cleared to play physically. Up to him once he is mentally ready
Oh, I agree. You just keep repeating it. I thought you were joking.
Hoping Sean feels ready today.
Probably going to be a bit of rust on the court from both sides today. What better day to get him back!?
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 31, 2024, 09:51:14 AMHoping Sean feels ready today.
What better day to get him back!?
At home to a receptive crowd may be a better day.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 31, 2024, 10:22:39 AMAt home to a receptive crowd may be a better day.
And also on a court that doesn't double as a hockey rink.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 31, 2024, 10:36:00 AMAnd also on a court that doesn't double as a hockey rink.
It is unseasonably warm today too which is usually when that disaster happens.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 31, 2024, 11:13:43 AMIt is unseasonably warm today too which is usually when that disaster happens.
Cue the song....
Slip Sliding Away
Is it possible that Sean is waiting until after 1/10/25 so that he sits out a full year and could possibly apply for an additional year of eligibility?
Quote from: ChuckyChip on December 31, 2024, 08:13:17 PMIs it possible that Sean is waiting until after 1/10/25 so that he sits out a full year and could possibly apply for an additional year of eligibility?
JB you want to take this one?
Go ahead, Mark. The short version is that it doesn't work like that. There is a much longer, more detailed version.
Not playing today in a game suited to ease back in would maybe hint of a red shirt?
Quote from: pbiflyer on December 31, 2024, 09:44:47 PMNot playing today in a game suited to ease back in would maybe hint of a red shirt?
At halftime, I wondered if he might make an appearance if the lead stayed over 20. It did, yet he didn't.
I now think his return, this year or next, will be in Milwaukee.
Quote from: mug644 on December 31, 2024, 10:31:43 PMAt halftime, I wondered if he might make an appearance if the lead stayed over 20. It did, yet he didn't.
I now think his return, this year or next, will be in Milwaukee.
My sources say that it's up to him.
At what point does Sean just sitting out the rest of this season make the most sense for both the program and Sean's best interest? Obviously he would be nice to have this season, but he's not going to play major minutes right away. Could be an 8-10 minute a game guy the rest of season, and boom - he's a senior having really only played sparingly since his freshman season.
Tough call. I am not familiar enough with the red shirt eligibility rules, but if there is a good chance he could get the year back anyway if he waits a few more weeks, then that changes the calculus.
I believe the injury has to occur in the first half of the season, and the player can only participate in up to 30% of games to be eligible for a medical hardship waiver.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 02, 2025, 10:16:25 AMAt what point does Sean just sitting out the rest of this season make the most sense for both the program and Sean's best interest? Obviously he would be nice to have this season, but he's not going to play major minutes right away. Could be an 8-10 minute a game guy the rest of season, and boom - he's a senior having really only played sparingly since his freshman season.
Tough call. I am not familiar enough with the red shirt eligibility rules, but if there is a good chance he could get the year back anyway if he waits a few more weeks, then that changes the calculus.
Gotta be a tough decision for him. I'm sure he wants to be participating on a Final Four caliber team, but that extra year is probably enticing.
As a sidenote...I can't remember what thread it was on but someone mentioned that if he does come back, Tre's minutes would be eliminated and I don't think I agree. Tre has been first off the bench often and had a steal, block, and lead the team with 3 offensive rebounds against PC. He does a lot of dirty work.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 02, 2025, 10:16:25 AMAt what point does Sean just sitting out the rest of this season make the most sense for both the program and Sean's best interest? Obviously he would be nice to have this season, but he's not going to play major minutes right away. Could be an 8-10 minute a game guy the rest of season, and boom - he's a senior having really only played sparingly since his freshman season.
Tough call. I am not familiar enough with the red shirt eligibility rules, but if there is a good chance he could get the year back anyway if he waits a few more weeks, then that changes the calculus.
This has been the question all along. Junior Cadougan, Greg Elliott. Junior came back, played very little, had no impact, and wasted a year of eligibility. Greg was able to return, didn't, and that team wore out at the end of the season.
The only answer is to do what is best for the student athlete.
I agree with my past self back in August or September that Jones should wait a year. If je jumps into the rotation now, he'll become a senior who has played very few minutes.
I've been interpreting Shaka's comments as if not when but maybe Sean's decision making is also about whether he thinks he's far enough back to actually push for minutes.
Quote from: tower912 on January 02, 2025, 11:19:19 AMThis has been the question all along. Junior Cadougan, Greg Elliott. Junior came back, played very little, had no impact, and wasted a year of eligibility. Greg was able to return, didn't, and that team wore out at the end of the season.
So... Transfer then
Doesn't look like it will be tonight, based on warmups.
I thought Sean would play this week. I wonder if a redshirt is better for all concerned at this point?
Quote from: Milkshakes on January 03, 2025, 10:38:41 PMI thought Sean would play this week. I wonder if a redshirt is better for all concerned at this point?
I would say it is definitely not better for this year's team. They could use another playmaker.
May be better for Sean and the future though. Guess we will see what he decides!
Coming back next year- https://x.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1876297997497086337
Definitely what's best for Sean. And honestly, while it would be a boost to this year's team, we don't know how effective he would have really been after such a long layoff and a serious surgery.
Heal completely, young man. Kick butt next season.
Completely understandable decision. Look forward to seeing him next fall.
As much as Id love to see him help off the bench this year, this is the best choice for him long term so kudos to him for making this decision.
Very excited to have him back next fall and for two full years instead of wasting a year this season when he isnt comfortable yet.
When is the last time a Marquette team had 3 redshirts?
Clark, Al, and Sean. A Freshman, Sophomore, and Junior.
Seems prudent to me. I would have had that plan the entire offseason, but I wouldn't question the way these young men choose to use their limited eligibility, had the decision gone differently.
Quote from: Pepe Sylvia on January 06, 2025, 10:17:09 AMSeems prudent to me. I would have had that plan the entire offseason, but I wouldn't question the way these young men choose to use their limited eligibility, had the decision gone differently.
The timing and severity of the injury made me skeptical he would return and be effective this season. It would have been nice, but this is not a surprise.
Quote from: tower912 on September 16, 2024, 07:07:09 AMI do not expect Sean to play. It is not in his interest to rush back. The exception being a rash of injuries to others and he is judged to be fully healed. Heal fully, young man.
A lot of what tower said here has been accurate.
Two more full years of Sean? Sign me up for that. It's encouraging that Shaka has said he already looks good in practice. We'll definitely need him next year. In the meantime, he will continue being a great leader and teammate off the floor. Glad they announced this and that it is out of the way now.
Reminds me of an old adage in sales, "'Yes' is the best answer; 'No' is the second best answer."
While I would have loved to have had Sean back this season, I prefer this "No" to thinking "maybe" before each game.
Looking forward to having him on the floor next fall.
Totally understandable. If he came back and got reinjured, then he burns an entire year of eligibility for nothing.
Bryce Hopkins came back too early for Providence, played 3 games, and now he's out again. Sean could have had a similar fate.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 06, 2025, 10:36:29 AMReminds me of an old adage in sales, "'Yes' is the best answer; 'No' is the second best answer."
While I would have loved to have had Sean back this season, I prefer this "No" to thinking "maybe" before each game.
Looking forward to having him on the floor next fall.
Yep. I'm familiar with the adage, and it is very true.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on January 06, 2025, 10:39:23 AMTotally understandable. If he came back and got reinjured, then he burns an entire year of eligibility for nothing.
Bryce Hopkins came back too early for Providence, played 3 games, and now he's out again. Sean could have had a similar fate.
Yes. Although Providence fans think a larger conspiracy is afoot.
Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2025, 10:42:22 AMYes. Although Providence fans think a larger conspiracy is afoot.
Afoot? I thought it was aknee.
Bravo
Another where Jay Bee can correct me, but if Sean played tomorrow, he would be ineligible for a medical redshirt/waiver, no matter what happened.
The rule is an injury has to occur in the first half of the season with 30% or less of games played. Tomorrow is game 16/31, which means even if Sean played one minute and suffered a completely new injury, he would be ineligible for the medical waiver.
If he came back in the Creighton game, got injured, tried to tough it out through the next 9 games, and then shut it down, he would've been eligible, but because tomorrow is game 16, that's it.
This is the best decision.
Yeah with the big holiday break
I think providence was pretty much the now or never comeback game.
SJ clearly wasn't feeling confident enough in his recovery with the knee for game action. This is best overall.
The way having his ball handling to help Kam doesn't outweigh having an unconfident player working to game speed to even be able to provide that help.
And now we just keep letting DO, Zaide and hopefully Tre develop this year
Entirely too much levelheadedness in this thread today........come on scoop......step it up!
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 06, 2025, 10:02:23 AMComing back next year- https://x.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1876297997497086337
This is a good decision.
I wonder if Hopkins reinjuring his knee impacted Seans decision at all. They had different levels of the same injury and they happened within a week or two of each other.
I always thought this would be the best decision. Seans whole game is agility and explosiveness. That knee has to be 110% ready
If Sean is starting and playing starter minutes I think there could be a World where he is in contention to be our leading scorer by seasons end.
I'd give the edge to Chase or Ben but neither of them have the shot creation ability of Sean and there really isn't a clear answer as to who that would be for us like we had with Kam this year.
Royce and Damarius maybe in that conversation too?
Sensible decision. Looking forward to seeing Sean wreak havoc on opposing guards next season!
As long as he wants to stay in school for a fifth year (something nobody ever seems to consider) this seems to be a prudent decision.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 06, 2025, 11:28:06 AMI wonder if Hopkins reinjuring his knee impacted Seans decision at all. They had different levels of the same injury and they happened within a week or two of each other.
I always thought this would be the best decision. Seans whole game is agility and explosiveness. That knee has to be 110% ready
I would imagine the mental hurdle is as much the physical, especially for someone so explosive. I would imagine he's at a greater risk of re-injuring if he is thinking about it or compensating for it.
Quote from: wisblue on January 06, 2025, 11:41:53 AMAs long as he wants to stay in school for a fifth year (something nobody ever seems to consider) this seems to be a prudent decision.
Any chance he wants to stay a sixth year if the new five -year eligibility rules go through?
Quote from: MuMark on January 06, 2025, 11:26:28 AMEntirely too much levelheadedness in this thread today........come on scoop......step it up!
Terrible and selfish decision as he denies Scoop the immediate opportunity to criticize him when his play doesn't live up to our unrealistic expectations.
Hope he turns in his NIL money and issues us an apology.
Prolly won't tho, smh.
Quote from: barfolomew on January 06, 2025, 12:04:55 PMTerrible and selfish decision as he denies Scoop the immediate opportunity to criticize him when his play doesn't live up to our unrealistic expectations.
Hope he turns in his NIL money and issues us an apology.
Prolly won't tho, smh.
Sort of how I feel. He owes it to the fans to get out there and play
There is always the possibility his situation can change as the season goes on. God forbid an injury happens taking away our depth at PG and Sean feels ready he could play. Declaring the intent to redshirt means nothing until the end of the season.
This is a disaster. I guess 2025 is a tank year. Hopefully, we draft well.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on January 06, 2025, 12:09:51 PMThis is a disaster. I guess 2025 is a tank year. Hopefully, we draft well.
Please wait and see what happens at the Jan. 31st trade deadline before making claims about 2025 being a tank year.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 06, 2025, 12:21:06 PMPlease wait and see what happens at the Jan. 31st trade deadline before making claims about 2025 being a tank year.
We need to shore up the midfield
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 06, 2025, 10:59:22 AMAnother where Jay Bee can correct me, but if Sean played tomorrow, he would be ineligible for a medical redshirt/waiver, no matter what happened.
The rule is an injury has to occur in the first half of the season with 30% or less of games played. Tomorrow is game 16/31, which means even if Sean played one minute and suffered a completely new injury, he would be ineligible for the medical waiver.
If he came back in the Creighton game, got injured, tried to tough it out through the next 9 games, and then shut it down, he would've been eligible, but because tomorrow is game 16, that's it.
This is the best decision.
A couple of minor corrections - not that it matters in this case.
The 50% of the season means you need to be incapable of playing (per medical folks, generally) the entire second half of the season, as defined. Therefore, if he came back in the CU game and played 9 more games, he would not be eligible. No games after 50%, period.
...in this case, 50% actually hasn't been hit yet. So he COULD give it a go next game and if the docs said, 'nope, shut it down' he'd still be eligible. If you have a qualified MTE.. 50% is based on 32 games [31 plus 1 for ncaa championships] -- so, you can play up to and including game 16 and still be OK on the 50%. But, if you're OK to play after game 16, it's a no go.
I think this is a prudent decision as much as I think he could help us. JTY will he strong and ready to go next season.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 06, 2025, 12:21:06 PMPlease wait and see what happens at the Jan. 31st trade deadline before making claims about 2025 being a tank year.
Will JFB agree to be traded to MU? Doubtful.....
Wrong thread.
Agree with the decision even though I think he could have helped the team this year. It is better for him to fully heal.
Shaka said post game that Sean's knee injury was of a type that takes 18 months to fully heal.
Do what you need to do, young sir.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 06, 2025, 11:33:17 AMIf Sean is starting and playing starter minutes I think there could be a World where he is in contention to be our leading scorer by seasons end.
I'd give the edge to Chase or Ben but neither of them have the shot creation ability of Sean and there really isn't a clear answer as to who that would be for us like we had with Kam this year.
Royce and Damarius maybe in that conversation too?
I'd wager a lot of money that Sean is never Marquette's leading scorer at the end of a season.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 09, 2025, 07:48:02 AMI'd wager a lot of money that Sean is never Marquette's leading scorer at the end of a season.
Your side of the wager would definitely be the favorite but he will get the minutes, he can create his own offense, he can get to the basket so it wouldn't be crazy.
I think after Tuesday, Chase showed that it should be him, but it would be nice to see him string a handful of nice offensive games together. He started the season with 3 double digit scoring games in a row and since then has scored in single digits 7 of 12 games including a pair of 2 point outputs. He's also shooting 40% from 3 on the year now. Would love to see him become a go to guy...starting now.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:07:25 AMYour side of the wager would definitely be the favorite but he will get the minutes, he can create his own offense, he can get to the basket so it wouldn't be crazy.
It would be crazy. He's not good enough of a shooter.
Not to mention he will be surrounded by better scorers.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:07:25 AMYour side of the wager would definitely be the favorite but he will get the minutes, he can create his own offense, he can get to the basket so it wouldn't be crazy.
I think after Tuesday, Chase showed that it should be him, but it would be nice to see him string a handful of nice offensive games together. He started the season with 3 double digit scoring games in a row and since then has scored in single digits 7 of 12 games including a pair of 2 point outputs. He's also shooting 40% from 3 on the year now. Would love to see him become a go to guy...starting now.
Yeah, I guess that's what I'm really saying. If Chase doesn't go pro, he will lead the scoring for next year, and based on volume alone the year after is going to be Royce and Damarius. Could Sean surprise? Sure, but his body of work at MU doesn't show me that he is a reliable scorer. He has three games where he has scored in double digits in his career. Personally, I see him more as a Derrick Wilson type player rather than a Kam Jones type player. Apologies ahead of time to those two I have offended with these comparisons.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 09, 2025, 10:16:23 AMYeah, I guess that's what I'm really saying. If Chase doesn't go pro, he will lead the scoring for next year, and based on volume alone the year after is going to be Royce and Damarius. Could Sean surprise? Sure, but his body of work at MU doesn't show me that he is a reliable scorer. He has three games where he has scored in double digits in his career. Personally, I see him more as a Derrick Wilson type player rather than a Kam Jones type player. Apologies ahead of time to those two I have offended with these comparisons.
My comp for Sean is Pops Sims. And while Sims did have a fine scoring year as a junior, when he was surrounded by other scorers, he was more of a facilitator.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 09, 2025, 10:16:23 AMYeah, I guess that's what I'm really saying. If Chase doesn't go pro, he will lead the scoring for next year, and based on volume alone the year after is going to be Royce and Damarius. Could Sean surprise? Sure, but his body of work at MU doesn't show me that he is a reliable scorer. He has three games where he has scored in double digits in his career. Personally, I see him more as a Derrick Wilson type player rather than a Kam Jones type player. Apologies ahead of time to those two I have offended with these comparisons.
Here's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.
James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.
Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.
Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.
I always hope for a Fatts Russell career from Sean.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:28:56 AMHere's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.
James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.
Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.
Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.
He may have a similar game to James, but he's not as good as James.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 10:31:42 AMHe may have a similar game to James, but he's not as good as James.
You are correct. He's not...but James got seemingly worse every year of his career. Sean has the potential to do the opposite.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:28:56 AMHere's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.
James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.
Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.
Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.
They're sized similarly and shoot at a similar clip from 3, but that is probably where the comparisons should end. Dom was a probably draft pick if he entered the draft after his freshman year. He could get to the hoop with ease. He averaged 15 5 and 4 that year and was BE ROY. Dom could do everything but grow three inches and shoot. Sean isn't Dominic James.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:28:56 AMHere's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.
James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.
Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.
Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.
What did you think people might be misreading?
Dominic James averaged 15.3 points and 5.4 assists per game as a freshman. He was a way, way better player than Sean Jones has shown any ability to be, not to mention nobody knows how Sean will return from a serious injury.
Saying Sean is Dominic James because both stink at shooting is like saying AJ Green is Setph Curry because are 43% career 3 point shooters.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:33:48 AMYou are correct. He's not...but James got seemingly worse every year of his career. Sean has the potential to do the opposite.
Dominic got worse every year only if you don't really understand basketball. His defense was Stevie Mitchell good his junior and senior years.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:28:56 AMHere's one...he's got a similar game to Dominic James IMO.
James was 5'11" 185 lbs. Sean is 5'10" 175 lbs.
Both are 29% 3 point shooters (yup you read that right). Both are defensive-minded. Both can get to the basket.
Sean's assist rate and usage are lower, but James was a 4 year starter in a more traditional offense compared to Marquette's current prostyle positionless basketball.
I mean, Dom had a 33% assist rate as a freshman vs a 18% to rate. Sean was 14/21. You can call it position less but our other ball handlers the past two years have insane assist rates. Sean is just an extremely limited offensive player so far. Just because one of his many limitations (3%) is similar to Dom's Achilles heel doesn't make them similar players.
Quote from: withoutbias on January 09, 2025, 10:40:35 AMWhat did you think people might be misreading?
Dominic James averaged 15.3 points and 5.4 assists per game as a freshman. He was a way, way better player than Sean Jones has shown any ability to be, not to mention nobody knows how Sean will return from a serious injury.
Saying Sean is Dominic James because both stink at shooting is like saying AJ Green is Setph Curry because are 43% career 3 point shooters.
Dominic got worse every year only if you don't really understand basketball. His defense was Stevie Mitchell good his junior and senior years.
Dominic James is probably in my Top 5 of favorite MU players. I know exactly what he was. Defense was elite but he got worse offensively every year.
Aside from being on the receiving end of an alley oop...my point is that Sean can do all of what Dominic did.
I think a lot of people undersell a lot of players on our roster, so I like to hit the other side of the argument. Reality is that they are probably always somewhere in between extremes.
Yeah Dominic did NOT get worse. He scored less. As a freshman he had Steve Novak as a proven scorer with experience. As he became surrounded by better scorers, McNeal, Matthews and later on Hayward, he didn't need to score for the team to have success.
He came in as a highly polished freshman. He didn't grow like other players, but that's because his starting point was so high.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:51:53 AMDominic James is probably in my Top 5 of favorite MU players. I know exactly what he was. Defense was elite but he got worse offensively every year.
No he didn't. Stop with this.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:51:53 AMAside from being on the receiving end of an alley oop...my point is that Sean can do all of what Dominic did.
No he can't. At least he hasn't shown yet that he can.
Jesus...what are we doing here?
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:51:53 AMI think a lot of people undersell a lot of players on our roster, so I like to hit the other side of the argument. Reality is that they are probably always somewhere in between extremes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this suggest that you recognize that your position is extreme?
IMO no one is underselling Sean by saying that he's not as good (and likely will never be as good), as Dom. He's an undersized guard that has not shown the ability to shoot the ball very well and is coming off of a major injury. Saying that he's a question mark moving forward seems very level headed and not at all extreme.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 09, 2025, 10:59:02 AMCorrect me if I'm wrong, but this suggest that you recognize that your position is extreme?
IMO no one is underselling Sean by saying that he's not as good (and likely will never be as good), as Dom. He's an undersized guard that has not shown the ability to shoot the ball very well and is coming off of a major injury. Saying that he's a question mark moving forward seems very level headed and not at all extreme.
Yes I recognize it is extreme. I think people undersell his abilities and value to this team...before I even mentioned Dominic James.
I mentioned Dominic James because I think Sean plays that kind of game and can have that impact to this team. He's damn good.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 11:07:59 AMYes I recognize it is extreme. I think people undersell his abilities and value to this team...before I even mentioned Dominic James.
I mentioned Dominic James because I think Sean plays that kind of game and can have that impact to this team. He's damn good.
And I (and many others) think you are overselling his abilities because he has not shown any evidence that he can have a Dominic James-type impact on this team.
I honestly hope you are right, but I just don't see it.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 10:54:11 AMNo he didn't. Stop with this.
No he can't. At least he hasn't shown yet that he can.
Jesus...what are we doing here?
Dominic shot 42% from the field, 28% from 3, and 46% from the free throw line in his Senior season.
He had a career worst 0.4 Offensive Win Shares with his 2nd worst True Shooting Percentage leading to a near 7% dip in usage from his Freshman season...and yet I would agree that his impact was irreplaceable.
Sean's offensive numbers didn't pop off the charts either, but there was a reason Shaka had him on the court late in many of our Big games to start last season before he got injured. Impact guard.
Quote from: The Sultan on January 09, 2025, 11:13:05 AMAnd I (and many others) think you are overselling his abilities because he has not shown any evidence that he can have a Dominic James-type impact on this team.
I honestly hope you are right, but I just don't see it.
Fair enough!
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 11:07:59 AMYes I recognize it is extreme.
Seems like you're just intentionally stirring the pot with extreme opinions, but if that works for you, go for it. Just be prepared to defend them, because you're going to have to.
Hope you're right about Sean, but very much think you are not.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 09, 2025, 11:41:32 AMSeems like you're just intentionally stirring the pot with extreme opinions, but if that works for you, go for it. Just be prepared to defend them, because you're going to have to.
Hope you're right about Sean, but very much think you are not.
I'm not stirring the pot. I just think Sean Jones is really good and extremely impactful.
It will work itself out. Through offseason and preseason work, a 5th starter will emerge.
The biggest difference will be that Sean will more than likely hit the portal in the off season, while Dom was a 4-year player...and the real question will be can Nigel James have nearly as good a freshmen year as Dominic James?
Quote from: PJDunn on January 09, 2025, 01:41:33 PMThe biggest difference will be that Sean will more than likely hit the portal in the off season, while Dom was a 4-year player...and the real question will be can Nigel James have nearly as good a freshmen year as Dominic James?
Why would Sean hit the portal in the off season?
Quote from: PJDunn on January 09, 2025, 01:41:33 PMThe biggest difference will be that Sean will more than likely hit the portal in the off season, while Dom was a 4-year player...and the real question will be can Nigel James have nearly as good a freshmen year as Dominic James?
Huh? Given established precedent of playing upperclassmen I'd say it's more likely we lose someone recruited to be the PG their jr year. Like say Tre
Starters next year would've been sr chase Ben Sean jr Tre and zaide then following year seniors Tre zaide jr parham owens Cardin or Al now someone's pushed out for that year because Sean has an extra one.
Sean/tre/DO
Zaide
Royce
Al/Caedin
Maybe caedin sticks and is cool splitting time as a 5 but Al has more upside IMO. Zaide and Royce seem like locks that leaves 2 spots for a super senior a senior who was ranked in HS and a jr who was ranked in HS. That's a lot of ego to manage for 2 spots.
Quote from: PJDunn on January 09, 2025, 01:41:33 PMThe biggest difference will be that Sean will more than likely hit the portal in the off season, while Dom was a 4-year player...and the real question will be can Nigel James have nearly as good a freshmen year as Dominic James?
More than likely? What?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 09, 2025, 02:07:14 PMHuh? Given established precedent of playing upperclassmen I'd say it's more likely we lose someone recruited to be the PG their jr year. Like say Tre
Starters next year would've been sr chase Ben Sean jr Tre and zaide then following year seniors Tre zaide jr parham owens Cardin or Al now someone's pushed out for that year because Sean has an extra one.
Sean/tre/DO
Zaide
Royce
Al/Caedin
Maybe caedin sticks and is cool splitting time as a 5 but Al has more upside IMO. Zaide and Royce seem like locks that leaves 2 spots for a super senior a senior who was ranked in HS and a jr who was ranked in HS. That's a lot of ego to manage for 2 spots.
Sean (Jr.)
Chase (Sr.)
Zaide (Jr.)
Royce (So.)
Ben (Sr.)
---
Norman (Jr.)
Amadou (So.)
Hamilton (So.)
Owens (So.)
Clark (Fr.)
James (Fr.)
Stevens (Fr.)
Militec (Fr.)
Phillips (Fr.)
Sean/Nigel
Chase/Tre/Stevens
Zaide/Owens/Miletic/Phillips
Royce/Amadou
Ben/Hamilton/Clark
I know people have pushed back on Phillips being a Redshirt, but seems like a pretty decent bet that one of the Freshman will. They have 3 redshirts this year which leaves us with 5 Freshman next year and Phillips position is arguably the deepest on the roster.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 02:36:04 PMSean (Jr.)
Chase (Sr.)
Zaide (Jr.)
Royce (So.)
Ben (Sr.)
---
Norman (Jr.)
Amadou (So.)
Hamilton (So.)
Owens (So.)
Clark (Fr.)
James (Fr.)
Stevens (Fr.)
Militec (Fr.)
Phillips (Fr.)
Sean/Nigel
Chase/Tre/Stevens
Zaide/Owens/Miletic/Phillips
Royce/Amadou
Ben/Hamilton/Clark
I know people have pushed back on Phillips being a Redshirt, but seems like a pretty decent bet that one of the Freshman will. They have 3 redshirts this year which leaves us with 5 Freshman next year and Phillips position is arguably the deepest on the roster.
Yea
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 02:36:04 PMSean (Jr.)
Chase (Sr.)
Zaide (Jr.)
Royce (So.)
Ben (Sr.)
---
Norman (Jr.)
Amadou (So.)
Hamilton (So.)
Owens (So.)
Clark (Fr.)
James (Fr.)
Stevens (Fr.)
Militec (Fr.)
Phillips (Fr.)
Sean/Nigel
Chase/Tre/Stevens
Zaide/Owens/Miletic/Phillips
Royce/Amadou
Ben/Hamilton/Clark
I know people have pushed back on Phillips being a Redshirt, but seems like a pretty decent bet that one of the Freshman will. They have 3 redshirts this year which leaves us with 5 Freshman next year and Phillips position is arguably the deepest on the roster.
Yeah next years not bad it's the following I question
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 09, 2025, 02:07:14 PMHuh? Given established precedent of playing upperclassmen I'd say it's more likely we lose someone recruited to be the PG their jr year. Like say Tre
Starters next year would've been sr chase Ben Sean jr Tre and zaide then following year seniors Tre zaide jr parham owens Cardin or Al now someone's pushed out for that year because Sean has an extra one.
Sean/tre/DO
Zaide
Royce
Al/Caedin
Maybe caedin sticks and is cool splitting time as a 5 but Al has more upside IMO. Zaide and Royce seem like locks that leaves 2 spots for a super senior a senior who was ranked in HS and a jr who was ranked in HS. That's a lot of ego to manage for 2 spots.
Al is not a 5.
Starting to worry about 2028
Sean will be wearing OSU red next year, Nigel will hopefully ne the answer.
Quote from: PJDunn link= ::) msg=1706869 date=1736477596Sean will be wearing OSU red next year, Nigel will hopefully ne the answer.
Predicting someone hitting the portal at Marquette is certainly a choice....... ::)
Quote from: PJDunn on January 09, 2025, 08:53:16 PMSean will be wearing OSU red next year, Nigel will hopefully ne the answer.
Ohio State didn't even offer Sean out of High School.
Why would they want him now fresh off of an ACL injury? Makes no sense from their perspective.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 09:14:51 PMOhio State didn't even offer Sean out of High School.
Why would they want him now fresh off of an ACL injury? Makes no sense from their perspective.
It's nonsense. But to play along, the coaching staff is different so they could theoretically want him now
Of course Ohio State already has a freshman stud point guard.....but hey what's the difference? He gone!
Damn. First we lost Kam to Memphis, now we're losing Sean to Ohio State.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on January 09, 2025, 09:58:52 PMDamn. First we lost Kam to Memphis, now we're losing Sean to Ohio State.
MU can't compete in NIL market
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 11:18:48 AMDominic shot 42% from the field, 28% from 3, and 46% from the free throw line in his Senior season.
He had a career worst 0.4 Offensive Win Shares with his 2nd worst True Shooting Percentage leading to a near 7% dip in usage from his Freshman season...and yet I would agree that his impact was irreplaceable.
Sean's offensive numbers didn't pop off the charts either, but there was a reason Shaka had him on the court late in many of our Big games to start last season before he got injured. Impact guard.
You are 100% correct in saying Dominic's performance at MU declined after his freshman year. As some who took offense to your point have mentioned in this thread, Dom had a real shot of getting drafted after his freshman year. He didn't have a chance at any other time in his career.
Dom was a very good on ball defender, and a great athlete. Sean Jones is a great on ball defender, and a great athlete in his own right. I don't think your point was crazy, despite Dom being a revered and valuable player at MU due to his time at MU and it coinciding with MU's entry into the Big East.
If Sean Jones plays 80% of available minutes, like Dominic did, his stats likely would rival what Dom produced Sophomore, Junior and Senior years.
P.S. - In my opinion, Stevie Mitchell is a better defender than Dom, and a better player who's career has been the inverse of Dom's - A guy who's gotten better every year, versus Dom who, unfortunately declined.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 09:14:51 PMOhio State didn't even offer Sean out of High School.
Why would they want him now fresh off of an ACL injury? Makes no sense from their perspective.
Weren't you just saying he might be MU's leading scorer and talking about how much you think he's really good? If that's the case, I would think it's pretty clear why OSU would want him.
But I don't see any reason Sean would be entering the portal this offseason.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 09, 2025, 11:25:16 PMWeren't you just saying he might be MU's leading scorer and talking about how much you think he's really good? If that's the case, I would think it's pretty clear why OSU would want him.
But I don't see any reason Sean would be entering the portal this offseason.
What I think should have no bearing on Ohio States player acquisition strategy lol.
I think Sean is awesome, but why would Ohio State have any reason to want him now after an ACL tear when they didn't even want him as a high ranked healthy prospect in their own state.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 09, 2025, 10:55:52 PMYou are 100% correct in saying Dominic's performance at MU declined after his freshman year. As some who took offense to your point have mentioned in this thread, Dom had a real shot of getting drafted after his freshman year. He didn't have a chance at any other time in his career.
He did not get worse. He did not have a shot of getting drafted. Beautiful myths that keep getting repeated here...
This thread is wild
New to scoop? Have your memory wiped?
Quote from: The Sultan on January 10, 2025, 05:11:42 AMHe did not get worse. He did not have a shot of getting drafted. Beautiful myths that keep getting repeated here...
You keep saying this. Please share the data and stats that you are using to support your opinion. Or share those that suggest Dom got better his sophomore, junior, and senior years? I don't see a trajectory that indicates he was better in those subsequent years?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 10, 2025, 07:38:04 AMThis thread is wild
Wait 'till tonight after I do a massive amount of bong hits, then we can talk about wild
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 10, 2025, 08:11:44 AMYou keep saying this. Please share the data and stats that you are using to support your opinion. Or share those that suggest Dom got better his sophomore, junior, and senior years? I don't see a trajectory that indicates he was better in those subsequent years?
I'm not sure he got worse, but his stats didn't improve certainly. Probably what he's taking issue with.
His freshmen and senior years were statistically similar, except his usage was down.
The idea that he would have been drafted after his freshman year is kinda bonkers. 5-10 guards who can't shoot a lick, even in the NBA back then, aren't early entry candidates.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 10, 2025, 08:43:49 AMHis freshmen and senior years were statistically similar, except his usage was down.
The idea that he would have been drafted after his freshman year is kinda bonkers. 5-10 guards who can't shoot a lick, even in the NBA back then, aren't early entry candidates.
This draft profile from Sept 2006, leading into his sophomore year as "he entered this season, which almost certainly will be his last, as one of the most heralded guards in the country."
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/dominic-james/
There was a lot of chatter around MU after his freshman season as to whether he'd enter the draft - whether or not he would have gotten drafted? We'll never know, but my recollection among MU fans was that his best chance would have been after his freshman year, looking back on his career after senior year.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 10, 2025, 09:01:54 AMWe'll never know, but my recollection among MU fans was that his best chance would have been after his freshman year, looking back on his career after senior year.
That's how I remember it. It wasn't that he WOULD have been drafted after his freshman year. It's that his stock was at its highest point after his freshman year.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 10, 2025, 09:45:04 AMThat's how I remember it. It wasn't that he WOULD have been drafted after his freshman year. It's that his stock was at its highest point after his freshman year.
Yeah, regardless of whether he got worse, he got older without improving his shooting. His draft stock after freshman year would've been based on assumptions about his trajectory. After four years, he was a similar player, who still couldn't shoot, so not a draft candidate.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 10, 2025, 12:01:04 AMWhat I think should have no bearing on Ohio States player acquisition strategy lol.
I think Sean is awesome, but why would Ohio State have any reason to want him now after an ACL tear when they didn't even want him as a high ranked healthy prospect in their own state.
Because it's an entirely new coaching staff. So if they see him as good as you see him, why wouldn't a program want the hometown kid?
Quote from: wadesworld on January 10, 2025, 09:55:38 AMBecause it's an entirely new coaching staff. So if they see him as good as you see him, why wouldn't a program want the hometown kid?
For the reasons already stated. Hasn't played since tearing his ACL. Also Diebler has been with Ohio State for around the last decade. He was likely one of the recruiting coordinators in his assistant role alongside Holtmann.
Taking a risk on Sean when there will be 1,500 kids in the transfer portal makes little to no sense at all for OSU. While on the flip side, Sean starting for Marquette and only further building their culture and development makes all the sense in the world.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 10, 2025, 10:01:48 AMFor the reasons already stated. Hasn't played since tearing his ACL. Also Diebler has been with Ohio State for around the last decade. He was likely one of the recruiting coordinators in his assistant role alongside Holtmann.
Taking a risk on Sean when there will be 1,500 kids in the transfer portal makes little to no sense at all for OSU. While on the flip side, Sean starting for Marquette and only further building their culture and development makes all the sense in the world.
How big of a risk is it for a team to offer one of its 15 roster/scholarship spots to a kid who you're projecting to be the starting point guard in a program that has a very good chance to be a top 2 seed for the third straight season?
Would Ohio St really turn up it's nose at our 2025-26 leading scorer, or is someone just intentionally stirring the pot with overly hot takes again.
Once you realize that GE is always going to take the extreme position just to be contrarian its easier to laugh off his takes. Fears Radford because he knows nobody else does. Thinks Royce stretches the floor because nobody else does. Thinks Sean will be the leading scorer next year because nobody else does. etc. etc. etc.
A quick look shows PJDunn is snarky, but rarely does an out of the blue hot take like this.
(https://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/fishing-gif-12.gif)
Quote from: wadesworld on January 10, 2025, 10:11:44 AMHow big of a risk is it for a team to offer one of its 15 roster/scholarship spots to a kid who you're projecting to be the starting point guard in a program that has a very good chance to be a top 2 seed for the third straight season?
I would think pretty large. By the time he plays his next game it will be almost 2 years since he has last played.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 10, 2025, 10:18:31 AMWould Ohio St really turn up it's nose at our 2025-26 leading scorer, or is someone just intentionally stirring the pot with overly hot takes again.
Once you realize that GE is always going to take the extreme position just to be contrarian its easier to laugh off his takes. Fears Radford because he knows nobody else does. Thinks Royce stretches the floor because nobody else does. Thinks Sean will be the leading scorer next year because nobody else does. etc. etc. etc.
I didn't fear Radford. I said they could give MU a game similar to New Hampshire because they had old players and it was the 1st game of the year.
I am not the only one that thinks Royce stretches the floor.
I never said Sean would be the leading scorer. I said he could contend for it. Said Chase and Ben have the inside track at that.
Your reading comprehensive is either severely lacking (which is fine)...or you just like to put words into the mouths of others by spinning their posts into ways that they never intended. You are the one being extreme by twisting every post and adding your own spin to them.
I could say it is cold outside...and you'd follow up with GE said it is never going to get above freezing in Wisconsin ever again.
1. It ain't just me that's challenged your "unique" takes. Plenty of folks have questioned your views, I'm just the only one that has said that I think you're doing it intentionally.
2. I absolutely LOVE the fact that you say that I put words in your mouth then immediately run an imaginary scenario where you tell me exactly what I'd say. It's currently cold in Wisconsin, my thermostat reads 29.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 10, 2025, 12:17:25 PM1. It ain't just me that's challenged your "unique" takes. Plenty of folks have questioned your views, I'm just the only one that has said that I think you're doing it intentionally.
2. I absolutely LOVE the fact that you say that I put words in your mouth then immediately run an imaginary scenario where you tell me exactly what I'd say. It's currently cold in Wisconsin, my thermostat reads 29.
It is normal to challenge a take. It is abnormal to challenge a take that you added your own twist to and made up in your own head or completely and intentionally ignored the main basis of...but you do you!
LOL. 5 other posters challenge your takes in the last few pages, I don't need to add any twists for them to be viewed as wild. The general consensus is that they're wild. but you do you.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 10, 2025, 12:26:06 PMLOL. 5 other posters challenge your takes in the last few pages, I don't need to add any twists for them to be viewed as wild. The general consensus is that they're wild. but you do you.
So I say Radford could keep it close on Marquette for the 1st game of the season in 2022...it was a single digit game at half...and a 7 point game with 2 minutes left...and you find the need to keep bringing it up why?
I said Sean could contend to lead the team in scoring BUT Chase or Ben have the inside track...and you decide to spin it to "GE said Sean will lead the team in scoring" why?
Just curious. If you disagree with things fine, but why be an asswhole about it?
So were back at the point where you accuse me of attacking you/resort to calling names? This is part of the reason that I engage, I know that you have bad takes, and I know that as soon as your bad takes get questioned at all you're either going to shift goalposts or play the victim. Everyone else is questioning your bad takes too, but you only seem to care when I do.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 10, 2025, 12:35:12 PMSo were back at the point where you accuse me of attacking you/resort to calling names? This is part of the reason that I engage, I know that you have bad takes, and I know that as soon as your bad takes get questioned at all you're either going to shift goalposts or play the victim. Everyone else is questioning your bad takes too, but you only seem to care when I do.
Lol. Ok.
Saying Radford would keep it close (when they did), Sean Jones could contend to lead the team in scoring, Royce Parham stretches the floor as a 6'8" stretch 4 all bothered you that much. Got it.
Quote from: THRILLHO on January 09, 2025, 10:47:26 AMI mean, Dom had a 33% assist rate as a freshman vs a 18% to rate. Sean was 14/21. You can call it position less but our other ball handlers the past two years have insane assist rates. Sean is just an extremely limited offensive player so far. Just because one of his many limitations (3%) is similar to Dom's Achilles heel doesn't make them similar players.
As very astute observation, completely agree.
I think it's also difficult to make realistic comparisons when usage rates are as drastically different as they are. For example, I would bet that the number of shots Sean has had to take because of the shot clock winding down is very low. He may initiate the offense when he's in the game, but the vast majority of the time he was out there with at least one of TKO/Oso/Kam, even Jop, who would be the guys forcing up difficult shots at the end of possessions.
The Amigos era, it was one of those three that was forcing it in a difficult situation. I also would guess that there were just more situations in general where a "shot clock 3" had to be attempted due to Crean's offense of "Wes/Dom/Rel run a 3-man weave for 25 seconds".
All-in-all, quite a poor comparison IMO, but if someone disagrees with me, I won't accuse them of attacking me.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 10, 2025, 09:45:04 AMThat's how I remember it. It wasn't that he WOULD have been drafted after his freshman year. It's that his stock was at its highest point after his freshman year.
Correct. He was never going to be drafted. This is all about how he performed next to expectations.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 10, 2025, 12:17:25 PM1. It ain't just me that's challenged your "unique" takes. Plenty of folks have questioned your views, I'm just the only one that has said that I think you're doing it intentionally.
2. I absolutely LOVE the fact that you say that I put words in your mouth then immediately run an imaginary scenario where you tell me exactly what I'd say. It's currently cold in Wisconsin, my thermostat reads 29.
And I thought I kept it cold in my house at 63 degrees!
(https://media.tenor.com/5hwrckqRv4kAAAAM/dollface-layers.gif)
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 09, 2025, 10:51:53 AMDominic James is probably in my Top 5 of favorite MU players. I know exactly what he was. Defense was elite but he got worse offensively every year.
I think you're equating ppg too much with improvement. I think a lot of James' improvement is the stuff you don't see in the box score coupled with the very clear steps forward that McNeal, Matthews, and Hayward were making alongside him. Those three had clear measurable improvements in terms of better efficiency, increased usage, and higher counting stats.
When you look strictly at raw numbers and see three guys at 16+ ppg in James' senior year while he was at a career low 11.0, I do understand the inclination to say he got worse. But he didn't. He had a lower usage but basically stayed the same player. He was always around a 30% 3PFG% guy, around 30% assist rate, mid to high-40s eFG%. Efficiency never really changed much. I do think he tried to force things too much as a sophomore, but James recognized that the better options offensively were McNeal and Matthews as he got older, which let him defer more.
He didn't get worse, he just didn't take as large a step forward as his peers, and because they got so much better he didn't need to so it allowed him to defer more in terms of usage rate. Where he did improve was on the defensive end. He was the best man defender we ever had, particularly on the perimeter. Our losing streak was a rotating door of guys James would've been guarding that beat us: A.J. Price, Andre McGee, Levance Fields, Jonny Flynn.
As far as Sean as an eventual leading scorer, I don't see it, but wouldn't totally rule it out. I think the way the team is set up, Parham is the guy I would peg as our leading scorer next year. I'd love it to be Chase or Owens, and they might be more efficient, but if Parham is getting starter minutes with the way he likes to shoot it, he would be the guy I expect to top the ppg chart.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 11, 2025, 07:07:25 AMI think you're equating ppg too much with improvement. I think a lot of James' improvement is the stuff you don't see in the box score coupled with the very clear steps forward that McNeal, Matthews, and Hayward were making alongside him. Those three had clear measurable improvements in terms of better efficiency, increased usage, and higher counting stats.
When you look strictly at raw numbers and see three guys at 16+ ppg in James' senior year while he was at a career low 11.0, I do understand the inclination to say he got worse. But he didn't. He had a lower usage but basically stayed the same player. He was always around a 30% 3PFG% guy, around 30% assist rate, mid to high-40s eFG%. Efficiency never really changed much. I do think he tried to force things too much as a sophomore, but James recognized that the better options offensively were McNeal and Matthews as he got older, which let him defer more.
He didn't get worse, he just didn't take as large a step forward as his peers, and because they got so much better he didn't need to so it allowed him to defer more in terms of usage rate. Where he did improve was on the defensive end. He was the best man defender we ever had, particularly on the perimeter. Our losing streak was a rotating door of guys James would've been guarding that beat us: A.J. Price, Andre McGee, Levance Fields, Jonny Flynn.
As far as Sean as an eventual leading scorer, I don't see it, but wouldn't totally rule it out. I think the way the team is set up, Parham is the guy I would peg as our leading scorer next year. I'd love it to be Chase or Owens, and they might be more efficient, but if Parham is getting starter minutes with the way he likes to shoot it, he would be the guy I expect to top the ppg chart.
Good points.
I'll go with Chase as the leading scorer but could totally see Royce. I just mentioned Sean having the ability to contend for that top spot because I really like his game and he will have the best ability on the roster of creating his own offense.
I just wanted to make a point to say he could contend for that spot because it seemed like he was being undervalued on here.