Ha
That's all
Congrats Buffalos
Sko buffs!
Quote from: chicagowarrior on November 26, 2024, 04:45:11 PMHa
That's all
Congrats Buffalos
Nope. I prefer to see the BE perform well in non-conference. Creighton also lost agin today. Not so good.
FWIW, I think Hurley and UConn will be justified in feeling that the inconsistency between yesterday's over the back call (against McNeeley and UConn) and today's over the back no-call (allowing the Colorado player to rebound over McNeeley) is unfair. My own feeling is that yesterday should've been a no-call and today was a foul. So, IMHO, both went against UConn. And contributed to their loses. Alas and alack for them.
Quote from: mug644 on November 26, 2024, 07:14:25 PMFWIW, I think Hurley and UConn will justified in feeling that the inconsistency between yesterday's over the back call (against McNeeley and UConn) and today's over the back no-call (allowing the Colorado player to rebound over McNeeley) is unfair. My own feeling is that yesterday should've been a no-call and today was a foul. So, IMHO, both went against UConn. And contributed to their loses. Alas and alack for them.
Just the standard post about "over the back" not existing as a rule. You should never be punished for being taller, stronger, or more athletic then an opponent.
What most people think is "over the back" is generally a push. However if I can reach over you without pushing you, there is no foul.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on November 26, 2024, 07:24:37 PMJust the standard post about "over the back" not existing as a rule. You should never be punished for being taller, stronger, or more athletic then an opponent.
What most people think is "over the back" is generally a push. However if I can reach over you without pushing you, there is no foul.
Regardless of my "standard post," I hope you see that my take on the two plays was irrelevant of the concept of over the back though I did use that term. Yesterday, McNeeley successfully grabbed a rebound above the Memphis player. Today, the Colorado player used his left hand to hold McNeeley down while grabbing the rebound.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on November 26, 2024, 07:24:37 PMJust the standard post about "over the back" not existing as a rule.
Sure, but even coaches call it that...
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 26, 2024, 07:28:17 PMSure, but even coaches call it that...
Yes even coaches don't understand a lot of rules.
My only technical as a coach was letting a ref know that what he called wasn't a rule.
Quote from: mug644 on November 26, 2024, 07:28:00 PMRegardless of my "standard post," I hope you see that my take on the two plays was irrelevant of the concept of over the back though I did use that term. Yesterday, McNeeley successfully grabbed a rebound above the Memphis player. Today, the Colorado player used his left hand to hold McNeeley down while grabbing the rebound.
Not your "standard" post. My standard post of telling people over the back isn't a rule, and even more misunderstood then a "carry" when someone dribbles above their head.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on November 26, 2024, 07:35:10 PMMy only technical as a coach was letting a ref know that what he called wasn't a rule.
Guess you didn't learn a lesson from that either. :o
UCONN should have worn UW uniforms. No fouls would have been called against them.
Hey! No teal!
Quote from: #UnleashSean on November 26, 2024, 07:24:37 PMJust the standard post about "over the back" not existing as a rule. You should never be punished for being taller, stronger, or more athletic then an opponent.
What most people think is "over the back" is generally a push. However if I can reach over you without pushing you, there is no foul.
A push isn't necessary. If Player A reaches above Player B, who is in legal rebounding position, and B jumps straight up to rebound and causes contact with Player A's arms, it is the foul on A because they violated the principle of verticality.
The problem yesterday is that the Memphis player was no way in legal rebounding position. He was still moving laterally toward the ball.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 26, 2024, 07:53:09 PMA push isn't necessary. If Player A reaches above Player B, who is in legal rebounding position, and B jumps straight up to rebound and causes contact with Player A's arms, it is the foul on A because they violated the principle of verticality.
The problem yesterday is that the Memphis player was no way in legal rebounding position. He was still moving laterally toward the ball.
I was about to say something similar, but yours is much better stated than what I was going to say.
Over-the-back is widely used as a term, because it deals with a player making illegal contact with an opposing player who is in legal rebounding position, typically by trying to reach over their back.
The semantics of "over-the-back" not being a foul would be like saying "reaching in" is not a foul, because illegal contact has to be made. Yes, it is true, but the other language is used to describe the method by which illegal contact is made and then has use.
I really appreciate the insights you all are giving about the notion of 'over the back.'
Being practical, how do you apply that to the calls in the last two UConn games? Was the call against McNelley "over" Memphis correct? Was the no-call of McNelley "under" Colorado correct?
I wish I had the skills to add links to the videos of each occurrence. Oh well.
Quote from: mug644 on November 26, 2024, 10:38:32 PMI really appreciate the insights you all are giving about the notion of 'over the back.'
Being practical, how do you apply that to the calls in the last two UConn games? Was the call against McNelley "over" Memphis correct? Was the no-call of McNelley "under" Colorado correct?
I wish I had the skills to add links to the videos of each occurrence. Oh well.
The call in the Memphis game was 50/50 in my opinion. I'm fine with it being called, but also agree with others above that the Memphis player was not really in position, but sliding over. That said, I've seen that foul called pretty often.
The no-call against Colorado was horrendous. Definitely a foul, should be called a foul every time.
Bilas said he wouldn't have called a foul on either play. His reasoning was basically the ol' "let them play."
By rule, though, yesterday's should have been a no-call and today's should have been a foul.
Quote from: mug644 on November 26, 2024, 10:38:32 PMI really appreciate the insights you all are giving about the notion of 'over the back.'
Being practical, how do you apply that to the calls in the last two UConn games? Was the call against McNelley "over" Memphis correct? Was the no-call of McNelley "under" Colorado correct?
I wish I had the skills to add links to the videos of each occurrence. Oh well.
I didn't watch the Colorado game. For the Memphis game, that was not a foul. There was contact, which is allowed, but there was no push. The Memphis guy was moving laterally, so not in a legal position, and the UConn guy just got the ball.
Forgetful is right that it is called at times, but it shouldn't be.
I don't know what strings Danny will pull, but this UConn team looks lost. The offense is okay, but they clearly miss the strength and leadership of Newton. Defensively, they are a mess. Mahaney looks like he'll be unplayable in the Big East with his defense. Their bigs can't stay on the court, which really hurts their rim protection. And there's no lockdown defender like Jackson or Castle that can disrupt the opponent's best player.
Hurley can blame officials all he wants, but the talent just isn't good enough.
Hurley needs to quit whining and start coaching.
Good teams adapt to game conditions.
Mediocre teams whine about officiating.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 27, 2024, 07:58:10 AMHurley needs to quit whining and start coaching.
Good teams adapt to game conditions.
Mediocre teams and fans whine about officiating.
FIFY
I'll add announcers to the officiating whiners, with Bilas being the King of Officiating Whining. How many times has that jerk gone on and on about what HE declares to be a foul or not a foul while the game is in progress?
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 27, 2024, 07:58:10 AMHurley needs to quit whining and start coaching.
Good teams adapt to game conditions.
Mediocre teams whine about officiating.
I think every call against Dean in the Ohio State game was correct. I don't know why people would complain about the officiating. ::)
Quote from: Its DJOver on November 27, 2024, 08:09:38 AMI think every call against Dean in the Ohio State game was correct. I don't know why people would complain about the officiating. ::)
Fair enough. I'll cover my ass by saying chronic bitching. It's always "the refs gave them the game!" as if the refs conspire to do just that.
Are there some specific examples of bad officiating? Hell yes. Georgetown was up 2 at the end of a game (TCU?) last year and the replay showed that the opponent
very clearly stepped out of bounds by a lot enroute to making a buzzer-beater 3. The ref missed it, and it was not reviewable. Fanta screamed "Georgetown got robbed!". They certainly did.
Enroute to our natty, Jerome Whitehead got away with a goal tend when he scored the winning basket vs, UNCC. Says who? Al, years later. He said he joined the argument about whether or not the shot was in time just to distract from the little issue of the goal tend from the refs. He said that he knew it was in time. And that it was a goal tend.
Fieldhouse informed us that Dayton won the game vs. NC, but the refs gave it to NC.
That's the kind of BS I am referring to.
Always complaining about officiating vs continuing to complain 50 years after the fact. I have no desire to get into a discussion concerning which is the worse look.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 27, 2024, 07:58:10 AMHurley needs to quit whining and start coaching.
Good teams adapt to game conditions.
Mediocre teams whine about officiating.
Hurley does this all of the time and has won back to back championships.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 27, 2024, 08:51:07 AMHurley does this all of the time and has won back to back championships.
I really hate it when you provide indisputable examples.
I'm not a big rules guy, but for me the Memphis call was fine.. and I take issue with Hurley yesterday repeatedly talking about the two calls shouldn't have been "at that time", "in that moment you don't call that", etc. etc... I understand the sentiment, but don't like the wording. If a ref is calling a game one way the entire game, I don't think they should switch it up during that game. But, the rules are the rules.
As I look at the Memphis case.. for me, even looking at Rule 10 Art 6... gets me there as it being a foul. "A player shall not extend the arm(s) fully or partially, other than vertically, so that the freedome of movement of an oppoennt is hindered when contact with the arm(s) occurs". Sultan was yapping about the Memphis player being in legal rebounding position.. but I don't think that even matters here.
Liam extended his arms outward, not just vertically, and when the Memphis player attempted to jump straight up, he was met by Liam's cheating arms, and thus it was a foul.
Also, Hunter D. 2 prizon.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 27, 2024, 10:07:51 AMI'm not a big rules guy, but for me the Memphis call was fine.. and I take issue with Hurley yesterday repeatedly talking about the two calls shouldn't have been "at that time", "in that moment you don't call that", etc. etc... I understand the sentiment, but don't like the wording. If a ref is calling a game one way the entire game, I don't think they should switch it up during that game. But, the rules are the rules.
As I look at the Memphis case.. for me, even looking at Rule 10 Art 6... gets me there as it being a foul. "A player shall not extend the arm(s) fully or partially, other than vertically, so that the freedome of movement of an oppoennt is hindered when contact with the arm(s) occurs". Sultan was yapping about the Memphis player being in legal rebounding position.. but I don't think that even matters here.
Liam extended his arms outward, not just vertically, and when the Memphis player attempted to jump straight up, he was met by Liam's cheating arms, and thus it was a foul.
Also, Hunter D. 2 prizon.
Nope. You are reading the wrong part of the rulebook. There are actually two parts that apply here. Can you find them?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 27, 2024, 10:38:03 AMNope. You are reading the wrong part of the rulebook. There are actually two parts that apply here. Can you find them?
You disagree that it was a foul under 10-6?
Just point me to your parts (pawz), and I'll consider looking at
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 27, 2024, 10:40:24 AMYou disagree that it was a foul under 10-6?
Just point me to your parts (pawz), and I'll consider looking at
Keep looking...
UCONN goes down to Dayton in large fashion.
Blood in the water for MU this season?
Karaban apparently hit his head on the floor at the end of the game and afterwards was taken to the hospital and is under concussion protocol. Hopefully not serious. Would be a massive loss for them if out for awhile.
UConn more than likely drops out of the top 25 leaving just Marquette as the only big east ranked team.
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/5.QE8lHxwlbQXTK4SK9t1Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTIwMDA7aD0xMjAwO2NmPXdlYnA-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/ftw_outdoors_usa_today_article_609/9cafeb8c525e3e1e6acb68411da5fc95)
Quote from: NCMUFan on November 28, 2024, 08:41:25 AMUCONN goes down to Dayton in large fashion.
Blood in the water for MU this season?
Yes, but maybe in a watered-down BE in terms of probable NET values. Winning vs. any (hopefully
all) of our next 3 major OOC opponents becomes even more important. I still do not understand scoopers laughing off our BE brethren's' losses, especially when it involves a team that was expected to be in the upper 5-6. I mean....it's not rocket science as to how this affects us.
I'm done guessing how UCONN is going to play out. We could well be the regular season and BET champs, but it is way too early to predict.
How much could any of us have made by betting a few days ago that UConn would go 0-3 in Maui?
Snoop: The pragmatic side of me gets that UConn losing could affect the Big East's overall picture and could even eventually hurt Marquette's NCAA seeding. But there's a less-logical-fan side that simply enjoys watching the king get his crown knocked off on the national stage.
Quote from: MU82 on November 28, 2024, 11:09:51 AMHow much could any of us have made by betting a few days ago that UConn would go 0-3 in Maui?
Snoop: The pragmatic side of me gets that UConn losing could affect the Big East's overall picture and could even eventually hurt Marquette's NCAA seeding. But there's a less-logical-fan side that simply enjoys watching the king get his crown knocked off on the national stage.
Since you identified it as your "less logical side", that's fair. I guess I won't put you on ignore after all. Just
watch it pal! ;D
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 27, 2024, 10:07:51 AMI'm not a big rules guy, but for me the Memphis call was fine.. and I take issue with Hurley yesterday repeatedly talking about the two calls shouldn't have been "at that time", "in that moment you don't call that", etc. etc... I understand the sentiment, but don't like the wording. If a ref is calling a game one way the entire game, I don't think they should switch it up during that game. But, the rules are the rules.
As I look at the Memphis case.. for me, even looking at Rule 10 Art 6... gets me there as it being a foul. "A player shall not extend the arm(s) fully or partially, other than vertically, so that the freedome of movement of an oppoennt is hindered when contact with the arm(s) occurs". Sultan was yapping about the Memphis player being in legal rebounding position.. but I don't think that even matters here.
Liam extended his arms outward, not just vertically, and when the Memphis player attempted to jump straight up, he was met by Liam's cheating arms, and thus it was a foul.
Also, Hunter D. 2 prizon.
The reason I said it was 50/50 is that in the definitions (Section 30: for rebounds) Article 2. states that to establish or maintain legal rebounding position, a player shall not:
"Extend either or both shoulders, hips or knees, or extend either or both
arms or elbows, fully or partially, in a position other than vertical so that
the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with
any of these body parts occurs"
You are using an equivalent rule to call it a foul on UCONN, but the Memphis player fully extends his left arm to restrain the UCONN player, and block his ability to access the rebound. The Memphis player violates this rule to maintain legal rebounding position. So you could call a foul on the Memphis player, the UCONN player (under your rule) or leave it a no call and two players fighting for a rebound (best call in this instance).
It's a nuance and it is called a foul in some games, but late in OT, let 50/50 calls go.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 28, 2024, 10:14:54 AM(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/5.QE8lHxwlbQXTK4SK9t1Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTIwMDA7aD0xMjAwO2NmPXdlYnA-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/ftw_outdoors_usa_today_article_609/9cafeb8c525e3e1e6acb68411da5fc95)
"I chose to live in Storrs instead of LA and my team sucks anyway"
Time for "Wifey" to take those "whitey's" out of good luck rotation.....
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 28, 2024, 11:57:21 AM"I chose to live in Storrs instead of LA and my team sucks anyway"
Suns could use a new coach, and Phoenix is nice this time of year
The BE got 3 teams in the Tourney last year. The rest of the BE stinking didn't hurt UCONN, MU, or Creighton from being seeded very highly.
Gonzaga plays in a 2 bid league every year and is always seeded highly.
We aren't bubble boys anymore.
Yep. No matter how bad it might get, at least we're not in the A-10.
Wondering if there's ever been a team that was ranked 2nd and fell entirely out of the top 25 within a single week.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 28, 2024, 04:56:45 PMWondering if there's ever been a team that was ranked 2nd and fell entirely out of the top 25 within a single week.
Can't imagine
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 28, 2024, 04:56:45 PMWondering if there's ever been a team that was ranked 2nd and fell entirely out of the top 25 within a single week.
It happened to Arizona in 2017. They were ranked 2nd and proceeded to lose all three games against unranked teams in that year's Battle 4 Atlantis; they were unranked the following Monday. And they were later upset in the first round of the NCAAT as a 4-seed.
Previous to this, the last team to go from #2 to unranked was 1986-1987 Louisville.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/uconn-is-overrated-and-other-key-takeaways-from-maui-invitational/ar-AA1uWdk3?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=2d27c7fb8f1e4991805995be1ddd100f&ei=16
UConn's lack of depth at the five brings to mind Shaka's recent philosophy of red shirting big men and starting a pipeline. It will be nice if this continues. Although he will have to have some luck with this to work successfully.
Next year they will be even more deep at the five with three serviceable/capable centers. Hopefully this just perpetuates itself over time.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 27, 2024, 07:58:10 AMHurley needs to quit whining and start coaching.
Good teams adapt to game conditions.
Mediocre teams whine about officiating.
Hurley should have taken the Lakers job. He is clearly slipping.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 29, 2024, 10:22:21 AMHurley should have taken the Lakers job. He is clearly slipping.
No notes. Simply a magnificent observation.
Quote from: Its DJOver on November 27, 2024, 08:09:38 AMI think every call against Dean in the Ohio State game was correct. I don't know why people would complain about the officiating. ::)
Well, those of us who are still alive complain because we are a bunch of grizzled old men and women who have nothing better to do, save for yelling at young people to stay off our lawns.
Ultimately, you're right. It doesn't matter what we think, what the team thinks or what anyone else thinks. The officials have the last word. Well coached teams assess what they can and cannot get away with and perform accordingly. Poor teams or poorly coached teams whine.
'
Case in point: That ugly Miami of Ohio loss in 1978. Many blame the refs. I blame our team and our coaches for not reading the signals and acting accordingly.
Hurley and Uconn being down a bit can be good for MU, (one more away win?) but the BEAST really needs 3 teams in the top 25 or we'll end up with more games on Flo. If Uconn is down, another BEAST team needs to step up.
UConn's gonna be fine. They still have an excellent coach and a lot of talented players. They went through an even worse stretch two years ago, and lots of observers were questioning whether even guys like Newton and Sanogo were good enough.
If UConn is still flailing like this when they're about to come in to Fiserv in 2 months, I'll believe they're in trouble.
Quote from: MU82 on November 29, 2024, 11:58:49 AMUConn's gonna be fine. They still have an excellent coach and a lot of talented players. They went through an even worse stretch two years ago, and lots of observers were questioning whether even guys like Newton and Sanogo were good enough.
If UConn is still flailing like this when they're about to come in to Fiserv in 2 months, I'll believe they're in trouble.
Agree 82, they will be fine. Lots of roster turnover but Hurley is a great coach. Will be a fun match up later in the season.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 29, 2024, 01:35:43 PMAgree 82, they will be fine. Lots of roster turnover but Hurley is a great coach. Will be a fun match up later in the season.
Yep. Fun when we beat their a$$ again at MSG in March!
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 29, 2024, 03:10:25 PMYep. Fun when we beat their a$$ again at MSG in March!
Love it Jay Bee!!
Quote from: WarriorFan on November 29, 2024, 11:10:15 AMHurley and Uconn being down a bit can be good for MU, (one more away win?) but the BEAST really needs 3 teams in the top 25 or we'll end up with more games on Flo. If Uconn is down, another BEAST team needs to step up.
All of our games have TV times and slots pretty much determined, and none will be on Flo. The only one that doesn't have a set network is the season finale against St. John's because the Big East does flex scheduling on the final day.
That said, that game won't be subject to flex scheduling. It is going to be the early game at 11:00 am. The Bucks play at home at 7:00 that night, so the ushers will be forcing us out the door as soon as the final buzzer sounds. Absolutely zero chance they flex that into the afternoon because it will already be tight cleaning the building and turning over the floor in time.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2024, 09:25:45 PMAll of our games have TV times and slots pretty much determined, and none will be on Flo. The only one that doesn't have a set network is the season finale against St. John's because the Big East does flex scheduling on the final day.
That said, that game won't be subject to flex scheduling. It is going to be the early game at 11:00 am. The Bucks play at home at 7:00 that night, so the ushers will be forcing us out the door as soon as the final buzzer sounds. Absolutely zero chance they flex that into the afternoon because it will already be tight cleaning the building and turning over the floor in time.
Another administration/marketing department fail