1. Two really good defensive teams going at it.
2. Really good challenge
3. Until the 3s fall, there will be wailing. I expect they will start to fall.
4. Make more lay ups, too. I think some of the misses were due to Terrapin defensive presence.
5. Parham and Owens are going to be just fine.
6. Still don't think Parham is big enough to be the starting 5.
7. Uplifting to hear Sean is close.
8. Caedin was and is a project. Some good, some freshman.
9. Kam the man. Missing two late free throws sucked.
10. Still, despite the lack of faith by their fans, MU found a way to win their first road game of the season against a high major.
November 15th and we get a game like that. #blessed
.
Good teams find ways to win games like this.
Nice coaching job and the guys stepped up.
A game like this on the road in that environment will pay huge dividends this year. Senior leadership is absolutely huge in a game like this.
Closing the gap in rebounds in the 2nd half made the difference. The guys really wanted it tonight.
Kam is special.
He's also the most mind boggling shaky free throw shooter I've ever seen
Huge road win. Now lets beat Purdue after their big win
This is a Q1 win come March. That Maryland team has enough talent to make the tourney despite Willard.
Also this Marquette team is really good. Gonna be a really fun season!
Great win. I just hope Jop and Ben can find some consistency.
Great team defense and smart plays doen the stretch by Stevie. Jop has some shown some ability over the years ro make clean blocks and he came up with key one down the stretch.
This quality non conference true road win should help build confidence. An additional benefit is MU will move up a bit in the rankings.
Love college basketball.the team wanted it and made it happen. Kam is incredible and Stevie is clutch.
Got some young guys to get experience in a hostile environment. Will pay dividends.
Quote from: Herman Cain on November 15, 2024, 09:30:50 PMGreat team defense and smart plays doen the stretch by Stevie. Jop has some shown some ability over the years ro make clean blocks and he came up with key one down the stretch.
This quality non conference true road win should help build confidence. An additional benefit is MU will move up a bit in the rankings.
Did I miss that...I thought Gold had that block?
Owens and Parham look good to me.
And welcome, Mr. Owens.
See : 5.
But yes, it was good to see him out there. When he is up to speed, MU will be deep and versatile.
And we can beat a Big10 team!
Quote from: avid1010 on November 15, 2024, 09:33:17 PMDid I miss that...I thought Gold had that block?
Owens and Parham look good to me.
I thought it was Gold too
Me, three. But Joplin got the credit.
I love how Shaka uses his guys. Puts Owens out there on the top of a 3-2...length causes some problems and gives Maryland a different look to change the game up for a few minutes.
Quote from: JTJ3 on November 15, 2024, 09:30:10 PMThis is a Q1 win come March. That Maryland team has enough talent to make the tourney despite Willard.
Also this Marquette team is really good. Gonna be a really fun season!
Was just going to say this. I'd be shocked if this doesn't end up as a Q1 win. Q1 road wins are gold on Selection Sunday.
We learned a little bit about this group tonight and hope they can build on it next Tuesday. Very nice W.
Quote from: The Thing on November 15, 2024, 09:38:23 PMAnd we can beat a Big10 team!
Losing to IL last year was rough.
Yeah, Caedin is up and down, but early on, he seems to have a nose for the ball on the boards.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 15, 2024, 09:43:26 PMWas just going to say this. I'd be shocked if this doesn't end up as a Q1 win. Q1 road wins are gold on Selection Sunday.
There's no way to know.
Tough result for the pants pissing crowd
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on November 15, 2024, 09:44:42 PMYeah, Caedin is up and down, but early on, he seems to have a nose for the ball on the boards.
And a great passer for a big man
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2024, 09:40:08 PMMe, three. But Joplin got the credit.
Definitely was Gold. I assume they'll change it.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2024, 09:45:05 PMThere's no way to know.
No, but there's a way to make an educated guess that Maryland ends up in the top 75 of NET.
Definitely felt like Ben did more than shoot in this one ;)
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on November 15, 2024, 09:44:42 PMYeah, Caedin is up and down, but early on, he seems to have a nose for the ball on the boards.
He put some dudes on their a$$es. I appreciate that...it's been awhile.
DJO
Ben was very active the last ten minutes of the game. Two big blocks, nice assist and one big play keeping a possession alive. I thought he looked very good closing out the game.
Quote from: avid1010 on November 15, 2024, 09:48:27 PMHe put some dudes on their a$$es. I appreciate that...it's been awhile.
Caedin is going to be a load as an upperclassmen.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on November 15, 2024, 09:44:42 PMYeah, Caedin is up and down, but early on, he seems to have a nose for the ball on the boards.
Love what Caedin brings to this team..need a guy with some brute strength..and he's getting some dawg in him. Looking forward to seeing him develop as the year goes on. The proverbial lunch pail guy kind of player.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 15, 2024, 09:45:24 PMTough result for the pants pissing crowd
What happened with rebounds in first half? Ramsey didn't play, transfer for sure.
Caedin is doing exactly what they need him to do right now. As he gets more run his reactions and anticipation will sharpen defensively.
Also the shot ain't broke. I'm fine with him shooting a three here or there.
Can't say enough about Royce. He swung that game for MU with Jop and Chase quiet.
- I'm impressed by Hamilton. Plays hard. Makes mistakes, but is a contributor.
- Parham might be special
- Zaide lacks confidence on offense.hitting a couple of shots early might do wonders.
- expected Chase to have bigger impact on offense.
Was at the game. Was a weird feeling when the building half emptied out with a minute to go. Knew we had a ways to go. Happy they pulled it out. Great win.
That was a blast to watch end to end. Really glad we got the win because it would've soured a fantastic 150 minutes had we given that away. Defense is legit. I know Queen got his numbers, but I thought overall we did okay on the interior. Challenged shots and made it tough on them. Really took Reese out of the offense, which was incredible.
I was watching turnovers because Maryland came in top-10 in both offensive and defensive turnover rate. We decisively won that battle on both ends.
Kam is amazing. His ability to get to a spot, make something out of nothing, and his passing vision are all next level skills. I know he didn't get the assists tonight, but he sees the floor well and it's evident.
I was hoping for more rolling from Ben tonight. He still hasn't hit his rhythm. Glad that Parham and Hamilton could give us quality minutes. This team already has legit depth. We went 9 deep, Maryland only had 6 guys with double-digit minutes.
Stevie is one of my favorite players to pass through Marquette. He's so tough, so passionate, so clutch. Maryland forced that door back open after trailing by 8, Stevie slammed it shut.
Kam is special. He should be playing in the nba next year. He has to figure out how to stay out of foul trouble.
Stevie is mister clutch. Only player I feel comfortable shooting free throws at the end of games.
I've seen more out of Parham and Hamilton in 4 games then Gold in 3 years. I think those two are going to be good.
It was such a short stint but Owens will be a star.
Great win that we tried to give away the last minute.
We have to clean up the awful fouls away from the basket. Too many.
Quote from: Big Papi on November 15, 2024, 10:21:19 PMKam is special. He should be playing in the nba next year. He has to figure out how to stay out of foul trouble.
Stevie is mister clutch. Only player I feel comfortable shooting free throws at the end of games.
I've seen more out of Parham and Hamilton in 4 games then Gold in 3 years. I think those two are going to be good.
It was such a short stint but Owens will be a star.
Great win that we tried to give away the last minute.
We have to clean up the awful fouls away from the basket. Too many.
*than Gold
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2024, 09:25:52 PM1. Two really good defensive teams going at it.
2. Really good challenge
3. Until the 3s fall, there will be wailing. I expect they will start to fall.
4. Make more lay ups, too. I think some of the misses were due to Terrapin defensive presence.
5. Parham and Owens are going to be just fine.
6. Still don't think Parham is big enough to be the starting 5.
7. Uplifting to hear Sean is close.
8. Caedin was and is a project. Some good, some freshman.
9. Kam the man. Missing two late free throws sucked.
10. Still, despite the lack of faith by their fans, MU found a way to win their first road game of the season against a high major.
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2024, 09:25:52 PM1. Two really good defensive teams going at it.
2. Really good challenge
3. Until the 3s fall, there will be wailing. I expect they will start to fall.
4. Make more lay ups, too. I think some of the misses were due to Terrapin defensive presence.
5. Parham and Owens are going to be just fine.
6. Still don't think Parham is big enough to be the starting 5.
7. Uplifting to hear Sean is close.
8. Caedin was and is a project. Some good, some freshman.
9. Kam the man. Missing two late free throws sucked.
10. Still, despite the lack of faith by their fans, MU found a way to win their first road game of the season against a high major.
I feel calling Caedin a project is understating his capabilities. He is much further along than most of the "projects" we have had.
Watched on delay. What a Rollercoaster. If Buzz was the coach the statement would be "the offense hasn't been installed yet."
But hot damn. This team is gritty af. Stevie is the heart of this team. What a fun game.
Quote from: BallBoy on November 15, 2024, 10:47:06 PMI feel calling Caedin a project is understating his capabilities. He is much further along than most of the "projects" we have had.
I think it's easier to expect more because he had an extra year in the program, but he's putting together a very promising freshman season. Another impact player developed by Shaka.
Perfect headline, tower, because that was a really entertaining basketball game. So glad the correct team won!
Loved the contribution we got from all three first-year players. I thought we'd see Owens at least a little in the second half, but I guess Shaka didn't want to push it. Parham is gonna be a really good offensive player, and Hamilton is already better than I think most of us expected.
Stevie is what MU hoops is all about. Kam is a superstar (but gotta hit those FTs). Ross is a defensive stud. Gold made some huge defensive plays down the stretch and hit a big-time 3.
If we play like that in every game, we will win a LOT.
Quote from: Big Papi on November 15, 2024, 10:21:19 PMKam is special. He should be playing in the nba next year. He has to figure out how to stay out of foul trouble.
Stevie is mister clutch. Only player I feel comfortable shooting free throws at the end of games.
I've seen more out of Parham and Hamilton in 4 games then Gold in 3 years. I think those two are going to be good.
It was such a short stint but Owens will be a star.
Great win that we tried to give away the last minute.
We have to clean up the awful fouls away from the basket. Too many.
Gold had some very good games as a freshman too. The Gold hate on this board is ridiculous. He's a good player, who is off to a slow start on his 3 point shot. His defense is substantially improved and he's a floor spacer, even if his shooting isn't great at this point.
That aside, yes Parham looks great and Hamilton is a great presence to have too. Bright future for both of those guys.
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2024, 09:25:52 PM6. Still don't think Parham is big enough to be the starting 5.
Lazar Hayward says hi. ;D
Fun game.
Norman had 13 min tonight(per ESPN) and that number surprises me. I know a lot of stuff is not registered in the box score...but I didn't notice many of them. I liked his hard drive leading to the foul, but are there things I missed in that time? Bigger fans, what am I missing?
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on November 15, 2024, 10:51:39 PMI think it's easier to expect more because he had an extra year in the program, but he's putting together a very promising freshman season. Another impact player developed by Shaka.
I agree we might expect more but also compare him to Itejere who also sat out his freshman year and I think you can see that his footwork, basketball capabilities and coordination aemuch further along.
#FTsNoMatta aina
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2024, 09:25:52 PM1. Two really good defensive teams going at it.
2. Really good challenge
3. Until the 3s fall, there will be wailing. I expect they will start to fall.
4. Make more lay ups, too. I think some of the misses were due to Terrapin defensive presence.
5. Parham and Owens are going to be just fine.
6. Still don't think Parham is big enough to be the starting 5.
7. Uplifting to hear Sean is close.
8. Caedin was and is a project. Some good, some freshman.
9. Kam the man. Missing two late free throws sucked.
10. Still, despite the lack of faith by their fans, MU found a way to win their first road game of the season against a high major.
I avoid the game thread....this synopsis seems to be a complete reaction to the game thread Tower. Your conclusions appear to be reactionary to others. Get away from that.
Quote from: MU82 on November 15, 2024, 10:54:31 PMPerfect headline, tower, because that was a really entertaining basketball game. So glad the correct team won!
Loved the contribution we got from all three first-year players. I thought we'd see Owens at least a little in the second half, but I guess Shaka didn't want to push it. Parham is gonna be a really good offensive player, and Hamilton is already better than I think most of us expected.
Stevie is what MU hoops is all about. Kam is a superstar (but gotta hit those FTs). Ross is a defensive stud. Gold made some huge defensive plays down the stretch and hit a big-time 3.
If we play like that in every game, we will win a LOT.
Shaka said post game......." It was good to get him out there...... ow we got to get him to guard the ball"
So my guess is he he made some miscues defensively so Shaka went with other guys.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 15, 2024, 11:08:50 PM#FTsNoMatta aina
It does when the other team out shoots you and you make more than the other team attempts in a 4 point win.......# aina
For everyone wondering if Jop or Ben got the block, the answer is neither per the box score.
https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/sidearm.nextgen.sites/gomarquette.com/documents/2024/11/16/MU_at_Maryland_Box_Score.pdf?timestamp=20241116034123
Hope Gold finds his confidence again, some nice plays defensively. Parham is gonna be nice.
Quote from: MuMark on November 15, 2024, 11:55:08 PMIt does when the other team out shoots you and you make more than the other team attempts in a 4 point win.......# aina
Lol. So strange so many still don't get it
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 15, 2024, 10:56:06 PMGold had some very good games as a freshman too. The Gold hate on this board is ridiculous. He's a good player, who is off to a slow start on his 3 point shot. His defense is substantially improved and he's a floor spacer, even if his shooting isn't great at this point.
That aside, yes Parham looks great and Hamilton is a great presence to have too. Bright future for both of those guys.
Yep. Gold's shot is off (until tonight, so was Parham's) and Hamilton is a better offensive rebounder, but Gold has done just about everything better than Parham and Hamilton so far. Parham has an instinct for deflections but is still learning how to play defense at the college level. Hamilton hasn't mastered defensive positioning yet and doesn't know where to move when his man doesn't have the ball. That's okay, most bigs struggle with that in their first year of playing. I see a very high ceiling for Parham. I'm not certain about Hamilton's ceiling but I believe he can have a very solid MU career. There's a reason Gold gets so many more minutes than the two of them and it's not stubbornness on Shaka's part.
Excellent fun game to watch. Pity MU had to win it twice. There are a lot of teachable moments in that last 2:00 which I'm sure Shaka will take care of for the future.
For the Ben Gold haters: Did he make even one mistake tonight? This year? Out of position? Incorrect rotation? Inadequate screen? Travel? He has only 3 TO's so far this year. He plays because he plays the right way, within the system, executes exactly how the coaches want, and doesn't make mistakes. The shots will fall. Watch him on defense. He does soooooo much.
Very excited to see Owens, Hamilton and Parham develop. Their mistakes are tolerable for now.
Jop's mistakes, however, are not. I'm not sure one of them can replace him yet, but I stick to what I said last year... he's the weakest link. If the team can "upgrade from within" by getting more from the 4 spot, the sky's the limit.
I thought Gold's intensity over the last ten minutes, especially about a three minute stretch, played a big role in the win. He was very active on the offensive side during that stretch and the same on D.
He showed glimpses of what he is capable of and hopefully that gets him going consistently. A good Ben Gold and this team can be good and I'm still confident we will see that.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 15, 2024, 10:56:06 PMGold had some very good games as a freshman too. The Gold hate on this board is ridiculous. He's a good player, who is off to a slow start on his 3 point shot. His defense is substantially improved and he's a floor spacer, even if his shooting isn't great at this point.
That aside, yes Parham looks great and Hamilton is a great presence to have too. Bright future for both of those guys.
Yeah I agree about Gold. I thought defensively he did fine. Shaka ain't yanking a guy for a slow start on offense when he's playing well on the other side of the floor.
Great game. Seniors leading by example.
Beat Purdue!
There are no bad road wins against a high major team.
Hit 3s at a decent clip and stay healthy and this team will be dangerous in March.
Right now, there is a noticeable difference between Ben's defensive footwork and Caedin and Royce. Ben's is better and more consistent. The young guys are doing OK, then have a second where their feet stop moving and they get beat. Not really a problem. A matter of doing the work and getting better. They will be fine.
Ben isn't Oso. But so far he has been just fine on defense.
Shaka likes his veterans at winning time. Always has. So, to me, a good question is which young guy will be the first to break through and be on the floor at crunch time? Barring fouls or injuries.
Quote from: Big Papi on November 15, 2024, 10:21:19 PMKam is special. He should be playing in the nba next year. He has to figure out how to stay out of foul trouble.
Stevie is mister clutch. Only player I feel comfortable shooting free throws at the end of games.
I've seen more out of Parham and Hamilton in 4 games then Gold in 3 years. I think those two are going to be good.
It was such a short stint but Owens will be a star.
Great win that we tried to give away the last minute.
We have to clean up the awful fouls away from the basket. Too many.
How dare you criticize Ben.Everybody here knows that without Ben we are a sub .500 team.
How
Ben is shooting poorly from 3 right now. So is Joplin. And?
Quote from: willie warrior on November 16, 2024, 07:00:26 AMHow dare you criticize Ben.Everybody here knows that without Ben we are a sub .500 team.
How
Correct. Everybody knows that
Parnham reminds me of Justin Lewis. I love what he brings to the table. He is a bucket.
Ben was great on defense last night. That shows how into the game he is despite not contributing much on offense yet. It will happen. Hopefully Purdue will be his offensive breakout game.
Really glad Owens got on the floor last night. Get comfortable young man and then let it rip. Can't wait to see what others saw at the scrimmage and in practice.
Caedin is doing really well for the most part. He is in his infancy but you can see the promise. And I agree with others that he should continue taking the wide open three if it's there. His shot looks decent.
Really hope Zaide gets some traction on offense soon but in the mean time keep playing good D and earn more minutes.
Kam, Chase and Stevie are constants. Any injuries to these three would be a nightmare.
Great win last night!
Oh, Joplin makes me cringe when he handles the ball in any decision making capacity. He's like a baby deer on his drives to the basket. Hope he sticks to catch and shoot and if he does drive he should not be afraid to be the one player to shoot a ten footer.
Fortunately he is fairly disruptive on defense and his length bothers three point shooters. He also bodies people fairly well on opponents drives and rebounds well.
We have to take the good with the bad. Just get the ball to a guard Jop!
Jop is 1-17 from 3 the past 2 games. He's too good a shooter for that to continue. Positive regression is coming, hopefully starting Tuesday night.
Shooter
The first time I saw Owens run down the court he looked different to me than the rest of the team. He looks extremely quick and athletic. I will be very surprised if he is not pushing Joplin hard for playing time.
My hope, it makes Joplin into a smarter and more productive 20-24 minute guy. Jop has a role on this team and hope it used productively over just him on the court.
Quote from: WarriorFan on November 16, 2024, 03:06:56 AMExcellent fun game to watch. Pity MU had to win it twice. There are a lot of teachable moments in that last 2:00 which I'm sure Shaka will take care of for the future.
For the Ben Gold haters: Did he make even one mistake tonight? This year? Out of position? Incorrect rotation? Inadequate screen? Travel? He has only 3 TO's so far this year. He plays because he plays the right way, within the system, executes exactly how the coaches want, and doesn't make mistakes. The shots will fall. Watch him on defense. He does soooooo much.
Very excited to see Owens, Hamilton and Parham develop. Their mistakes are tolerable for now.
Jop's mistakes, however, are not. I'm not sure one of them can replace him yet, but I stick to what I said last year... he's the weakest link. If the team can "upgrade from within" by getting more from the 4 spot, the sky's the limit.
Great post. I think this is spot on. I am delighted with how Hamilton is showing up. He is a great backup to Ben at the 5 and I am hopeful that he will develop into a really good upperclassman.
What surprises me is that the talk isn't about Royce and Owens eating up Jop's minutes. If either of them can develop quickly on the defensive end they will get lots of floor time and I'd expect that to be at Jopin's expense.
Also, where is our Sophomore class? I expected to see some sparks by now and instead it has been crickets.
Did you see the size of the brace on Tre's right arm when he shot the free throws?
Weird to say, but right now Joplin is playing far better defense than the frosh.
Zaide is in the same boat as Ben and Joplin, can't make a three. And Chase is playing too well to take off the floor. 36 minutes last night, most on the team.
Going forward, it would be awesome if Sean came back, DO learns how to guard the ball and Royce seriously pushes Joplin. That would mean that the bench is productive and that MU is a good and dangerous team.
But at crunch time, look for the upperclassmen to be on the floor. That is who Shaka is. No subs the last 5 minutes last night.
A very good game for mid November. The guys played hard and Mitchell definitely showed great poise on those FTs.
Some observations
Jolps minutes need to start going toward Parham. Parham does need to pick up his D.
Gooolllldbrick should be playing down low more.
Mitchell, Kam and Ross all are solid although Chase did not have a very good game. These three need to perform every game for us to be a BEast contender.
Next game will be a real tester. Then we should really know where the team is at.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 16, 2024, 07:12:44 AMOh, Joplin makes me cringe when he handles the ball in any decision making capacity. He's like a baby deer on his drives to the basket. Hope he sticks to catch and shoot and if he does drive he should not be afraid to be the one player to shoot a ten footer.
Fortunately he is fairly disruptive on defense and his length bothers three point shooters. He also bodies people fairly well on opponents drives and rebounds well.
We have to take the good with the bad. Just get the ball to a guard Jop!
Both Jop and Chase seem frantic on offense from time to time. Jop also seems to calm himself down purposefully when initiating the offense, but that stalls the ball. It's like the game hasn't slowed down for them yet, even though they're experienced players. Stresses me out.
Tower
If Sean comes back and Owens plays at level it appears he can play at, this will be a dangerous team to play. Have always been a fan of defense and things are trending well on that side of the ball. This year it looks like much more poise on defense and being comfortable in the system. IMO, I still believe defense will be the calling card of the MU program under Shaka.
I have to get my Ben Gold plug in, if he ends up being a consistent threat from three-point line, he is going to be a very big part of the success of the team this year. His intensity last night was at a high level, and he made 3-4 very big plays in last ten minutes. Anyone questioning his improved D is simply looking to bash him and many on here simply think he is in the game to shoot three pointers.
Quote from: Goose on November 16, 2024, 05:09:18 AMI thought Gold's intensity over the last ten minutes, especially about a three minute stretch, played a big role in the win. He was very active on the offensive side during that stretch and the same on D.
He showed glimpses of what he is capable of and hopefully that gets him going consistently. A good Ben Gold and this team can be good and I'm still confident we will see that.
Yes. We need Ben desperately. He needs to play with some fury Goose. How can we motivate the young man? :)
Muggsy, I have been saying for a year that the only thing Ben lacks is confidence, a belief that he is and can be the man. Defensively, right now, he is one step below the unicorn that was Oso and that is pretty darn good. The confidence on offense has to come from inside.
Quote from: Goose on November 16, 2024, 08:37:49 AMTower
If Sean comes back and Owens plays at level it appears he can play at, this will be a dangerous team to play. Have always been a fan of defense and things are trending well on that side of the ball. This year it looks like much more poise on defense and being comfortable in the system. IMO, I still believe defense will be the calling card of the MU program under Shaka.
I have to get my Ben Gold plug in, if he ends up being a consistent threat from three-point line, he is going to be a very big part of the success of the team this year. His intensity last night was at a high level, and he made 3-4 very big plays in last ten minutes. Anyone questioning his improved D is simply looking to bash him and many on here simply think he is in the game to shoot three pointers.
I am really impressed with Parham so far. 10 pts last night and 9 pts against George Mason. Defense will come.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 16, 2024, 09:47:24 AMI am really impressed with Parham so far. 10 pts last night and 9 pts against George Mason. Defense will come.
Agreed. Parham is going to such a key player already this season. He doesn't seemed rushed like most frosh.
Just getting to watch the game as I wasn't able to last night. Fun road game and always huge to get a win in your first true road game. That and the first conference road games are always the toughest to get, in my opinion.
I'm not ready to say I'd be "shocked" if this wasn't a Q1 win come March. I think it probably will, but just thinking about last year, UCLA seemed like it'd be a nice win for Mu and it really wasn't. Kansas seemed like it was going to be about as big of a win as you can get, and while it was still good, it wasn't that.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2024, 01:58:53 AMThere's a reason Gold gets so many more minutes than the two of them and it's not stubbornness on Shaka's part.
You'd think that by now, after 3 pretty damn good years (and a great start to Season 4), 100% of Scoopers would trust Shaka's decisions regarding playing time. We'd realize that he sees these kids on and off the court for several hours every single day and that he knows who deserves to play in which situations, who is mentally and physically ready to compete game after game.
Shaka wants to win even more than every one of us does. For him, Job 1 isn't to coach or to mentor college students ... Job 1 is to win - period. Like every coach in the country, he can't keep his job unless he wins enough. Plus, he's a coach - his brain is wired to hate hate hate losing.
If Shaka really felt that using Hamilton more than Gold or using Parham more than Joplin or using Ross more than Stevie (in previous seasons) would lead to more victories, he would absolutely make those and other decisions.
If Parham does pass Joplin in Shaka's rotation, I would feel confident that Parham has earned it. If Joplin stays ahead of Parham in the rotation, I would feel confident that Shaka has a damn good reason for keeping Joplin ahead of Parham, and it isn't out of some kind of blind loyalty.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 16, 2024, 10:08:27 AMJust getting to watch the game as I wasn't able to last night. Fun road game and always huge to get a win in your first true road game. That and the first conference road games are always the toughest to get, in my opinion.
I'm not ready to say I'd be "shocked" if this wasn't a Q1 win come March. I think it probably will, but just thinking about last year, UCLA seemed like it'd be a nice win for Mu and it really wasn't. Kansas seemed like it was going to be about as big of a win as you can get, and while it was still good, it wasn't that.
Road wins in non-con, especially the first without your floor general of the previous 3 seasons, is a good win. Regardless of what becomes of Maryland
In spite of their turd of a coach, I think that Maryland will be in the top 3rd of the B10. This will be a good win for us. Queen is a monster.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 16, 2024, 10:08:27 AMJust getting to watch the game as I wasn't able to last night. Fun road game and always huge to get a win in your first true road game. That and the first conference road games are always the toughest to get, in my opinion.
I'm not ready to say I'd be "shocked" if this wasn't a Q1 win come March. I think it probably will, but just thinking about last year, UCLA seemed like it'd be a nice win for Mu and it really wasn't. Kansas seemed like it was going to be about as big of a win as you can get, and while it was still good, it wasn't that.
In order for this to not be a Q1 win Maryland would have to fall to below 75 in Kenpom
You really think that is possible?
I'm not sure how this win winds up looking by years end, but I'm pretty certain it wont drop to Q2 on the sheet
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 16, 2024, 12:17:06 AMLol. So strange so many still don't get it
The irony of this is that we did win this came because of FTs. We lost the battle on eFG%. We lost the rebounding battle.
I guess one could argue we won the game because of winning the TO battle. But if we shoot 64% from FT (their %) and they shoot 75% (our %) we lose the game.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 16, 2024, 10:53:12 AMIn order for this to not be a Q1 win Maryland would have to fall to below 75 in Kenpom
You really think that is possible?
I'm not sure how this win winds up looking by years end, but I'm pretty certain it wont drop to Q2 on the sheet
I don't think it's likely, but I do think it's possible. The B1G is weak at the top, but is very deep.
Quote from: PJDunn on November 16, 2024, 10:31:10 AMIn spite of their turd of a coach, I think that Maryland will be in the top 3rd of the B10. This will be a good win for us. Queen is a monster.
At one point I think Raftery said something about Willard being friendly or laughing or something. Then he said "it must have been gas".
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 16, 2024, 10:53:12 AMIn order for this to not be a Q1 win Maryland would have to fall to below 75 in Kenpom
#FakeNews #Lies
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 11:07:59 AMThe irony of this is that we did win this came because of FTs. We lost the battle on eFG%. We lost the rebounding battle.
I guess one could argue we won the game because of winning the TO battle. But if we shoot 64% from FT (their %) and they shoot 75% (our %) we lose the game.
Dumb. We won three of the four factors, none of which is FT%
Difficult to overcome such a loss in the eFG% dept, but we won on turnovers, rebounded better, and got to the line more often.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 16, 2024, 12:15:41 PMDumb. We won three of the four factors, none of which is FT%
Difficult to overcome such a loss in the eFG% dept, but we won on turnovers, rebounded better, and got to the line more often.
So you agree FTs matter. Glad to have you on board.
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 12:30:18 PMSo you agree FTs matter. Glad to have you on board.
FTR matta. FT% technically mattas but is miniscule compared to the four factors.
JayBee is also right that we rebounded better.
Enjoyable, indeed.
A confirming effort after a few uneven games against inferior talent.
Hung with comparable athletes in an hostile environment and took punches and returned them in kind.
No doubt that Kam is the solid core for this team, but if the layer that surrounds him stays steady and flashes brilliance steadily and the outer layer of talented newbies hold their own, develop as the year progresses and breaks into the inner tier, MU will be more than fine.
Fairly or not, it hinges on Kam getting his- have not yet seen that anyone has the wherewithal yet or in a consistent fashion to carry the offensive weight he bears.
Excellent early season win and road statement.
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 12:30:18 PMSo you agree FTs matter. Glad to have you on board.
You don't understand do you?
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2024, 09:45:05 PMThere's no way to know.
To stay Q1 Maryland would have to drop below 75. They are 37 right now, assuming the NET ends up close to KenPom. And they looked the part of a top 40 team.
It's a Q1 win.
I wonder how long will the love affair the board has with the frosh will last before they start getting nicknames.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 16, 2024, 08:48:28 AMYes. We need Ben desperately. He needs to play with some fury Goose. How can we motivate the young man? :)
I'm sure if he is fed manatee it will totally motivate him.
Agree that Ben was good last night. 1-3 on threes. Nice drive to the hoop. Couple of nice assists. Has to do a better job of not fouling, but I did think that a couple of the calls were weak.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 01:34:06 PMI wonder how long will the love affair the board has with the frosh will last before they start getting nicknames.
First time they're on the court and Marquette is losing
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2024, 12:36:06 PMFTR matta. FT% technically mattas but is miniscule compared to the four factors.
JayBee is also right that we rebounded better.
It's also a fact that in this game, if everything was the same, and we swapped FT% we would have lost. We would have ended up with 15.4 points from FTs, for a net loss of 3.6 pts. They would have ended up with 10.5 point from FTs, for a net gain of 1.5 pts.
I recognize that statistics across all games says that FT-rate and FT% are less important factors, but the problem with statistics (and big data analytics) is that it is an all-game average, meaning it should guide your focus on how to best approach winning across all games. All game averages/statistics do not inform on the reason for a specific game outcome.
This is a crude way to conduct the analysis of this individual game, but TOs represent about 25% of win probability. We won that battle by 5 net TOs, for a contribution of 5*0.25=1.25. We won the FT line battle (~15%) by 9 made FTs, a net affect of 9*0.15=1.35. Our most successful factor in overcoming a lower eFG% was FTs.
Or in another way, we netted 9 more points from the FT line. We got a net of 5 more possessions from TO battle. At 1.2 pts per possession (rounding up for this game), that is a net of 6.0 points (our other best performing metric). We netted 3.6 pts from better offensive rebounding.
All other things being equal, we would have lost by ~10 points based on eFG%.
So for this specific game, our ability to outperform from the FT line was the most important factor.
My guess is that Jaybee, besides just being disagreeable, is a "data-driven" type person, as opposed to a "data-guided" approach, that takes individual story lines into consideration.
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 01:58:06 PMIt's also a fact that in this game, if everything was the same, and we swapped FT% we would have lost. We would have ended up with 15.4 points from FTs, for a net loss of 3.6 pts. They would have ended up with 10.5 point from FTs, for a net gain of 1.5 pts.
I recognize that statistics across all games says that FT-rate and FT% are less important factors, but the problem with statistics (and big data analytics) is that it is an all-game average, meaning it should guide your focus on how to best approach winning across all games. All game averages/statistics do not inform on the reason for a specific game outcome.
This is a crude way to conduct the analysis of this individual game, but TOs represent about 25% of win probability. We won that battle by 5 net TOs, for a contribution of 5*0.25=1.25. We won the FT line battle (~15%) by 9 made FTs, a net affect of 9*0.15=1.35. Our most successful factor in overcoming a lower eFG% was FTs.
Or in another way, we netted 9 more points from the FT line. We got a net of 5 more possessions from TO battle. At 1.2 pts per possession (rounding up for this game), that is a net of 6.0 points (our other best performing metric). We netted 3.6 pts from better offensive rebounding.
All other things being equal, we would have lost by ~10 points based on eFG%.
So for this specific game, our ability to outperform from the FT line was the most important factor.
My guess is that Jaybee, besides just being disagreeable, is a "data-driven" type person, as opposed to a "data-guided" approach, that takes individual story lines into consideration.
🙄🙄🙄
Just watched the game again. The Maryland fans were letting the fbomb and other classy chants loose with regularity.
Quote from: Milkshakes on November 16, 2024, 02:49:15 PMJust watched the game again. The Maryland fans were letting the fbomb and other classy chants loose with regularity.
They were saying "hey you suck" with the Hey song. Marquette must have been appalled
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 01:58:06 PMIt's also a fact that in this game, if everything was the same, and we swapped FT% we would have lost. We would have ended up with 15.4 points from FTs, for a net loss of 3.6 pts. They would have ended up with 10.5 point from FTs, for a net gain of 1.5 pts.
I recognize that statistics across all games says that FT-rate and FT% are less important factors, but the problem with statistics (and big data analytics) is that it is an all-game average, meaning it should guide your focus on how to best approach winning across all games. All game averages/statistics do not inform on the reason for a specific game outcome.
This is a crude way to conduct the analysis of this individual game, but TOs represent about 25% of win probability. We won that battle by 5 net TOs, for a contribution of 5*0.25=1.25. We won the FT line battle (~15%) by 9 made FTs, a net affect of 9*0.15=1.35. Our most successful factor in overcoming a lower eFG% was FTs.
Or in another way, we netted 9 more points from the FT line. We got a net of 5 more possessions from TO battle. At 1.2 pts per possession (rounding up for this game), that is a net of 6.0 points (our other best performing metric). We netted 3.6 pts from better offensive rebounding.
All other things being equal, we would have lost by ~10 points based on eFG%.
So for this specific game, our ability to outperform from the FT line was the most important factor.
My guess is that Jaybee, besides just being disagreeable, is a "data-driven" type person, as opposed to a "data-guided" approach, that takes individual story lines into consideration.
LOL you can change anything else around and MU loses, lost most important factor. Won because MU basically won all else.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 03:26:53 PMLOL you can change anything else around and MU loses, lost most important factor. Won because MU basically won all else.
You are demonstrating my point. You are not examining this specific game and determining what element we outperformed in the most.
One little thing about last night's game that I haven't heard mentioned, and that didn't make any difference.
But, I thought Maryland should have been whistled for a turnover on their last possession. I know that a player inbounding after a FG or made FT can pass to another player who is out of bounds. But on that play, I didn't think the Maryland player receiving the pass had established himself as out of bounds before he first touched the ball. It was like he received the pass while in bounds and carried it out.
Did anyone else see that, or was everyone already celebrating the win? If it had been a one score game, or if they had hit the 3, I would have been screaming at the TV.
Quote from: wisblue on November 16, 2024, 04:06:10 PMOne little thing about last night's game that I haven't heard mentioned, and that didn't make any difference.
But, I thought Maryland should have been whistled for a turnover on their last possession. I know that a player inbounding after a FG or made FT can pass to another player who is out of bounds. But on that play, I didn't think the Maryland player receiving the pass had established himself as out of bounds before he first touched the ball. It was like he received the pass while in bounds and carried it out.
Did anyone else see that, or was everyone already celebrating the win? If it had been a one score game, or if they had hit the 3, I would have been screaming at the TV.
I just watched. If the rule is you have to re-establish, then you are correct. He definitely did not.
Forgetful, or NeverKnew? May be time to change your username aina
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 03:52:46 PMYou are demonstrating my point. You are not examining this specific game and determining what element we outperformed in the most.
LOL you were the one who brought up Ft%
you don't know how it works...
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 01:58:06 PMIt's also a fact that in this game, if everything was the same, and we swapped FT% we would have lost. We would have ended up with 15.4 points from FTs, for a net loss of 3.6 pts. They would have ended up with 10.5 point from FTs, for a net gain of 1.5 pts.
I recognize that statistics across all games says that FT-rate and FT% are less important factors, but the problem with statistics (and big data analytics) is that it is an all-game average, meaning it should guide your focus on how to best approach winning across all games. All game averages/statistics do not inform on the reason for a specific game outcome.
This is a crude way to conduct the analysis of this individual game, but TOs represent about 25% of win probability. We won that battle by 5 net TOs, for a contribution of 5*0.25=1.25. We won the FT line battle (~15%) by 9 made FTs, a net affect of 9*0.15=1.35. Our most successful factor in overcoming a lower eFG% was FTs.
Or in another way, we netted 9 more points from the FT line. We got a net of 5 more possessions from TO battle. At 1.2 pts per possession (rounding up for this game), that is a net of 6.0 points (our other best performing metric). We netted 3.6 pts from better offensive rebounding.
All other things being equal, we would have lost by ~10 points based on eFG%.
So for this specific game, our ability to outperform from the FT line was the most important factor.
My guess is that Jaybee, besides just being disagreeable, is a "data-driven" type person, as opposed to a "data-guided" approach, that takes individual story lines into consideration.
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 01:58:06 PMIt's also a fact that in this game, if everything was the same, and we swapped FT% we would have lost. We would have ended up with 15.4 points from FTs, for a net loss of 3.6 pts. They would have ended up with 10.5 point from FTs, for a net gain of 1.5 pts.
I recognize that statistics across all games says that FT-rate and FT% are less important factors, but the problem with statistics (and big data analytics) is that it is an all-game average, meaning it should guide your focus on how to best approach winning across all games. All game averages/statistics do not inform on the reason for a specific game outcome.
This is a crude way to conduct the analysis of this individual game, but TOs represent about 25% of win probability. We won that battle by 5 net TOs, for a contribution of 5*0.25=1.25. We won the FT line battle (~15%) by 9 made FTs, a net affect of 9*0.15=1.35. Our most successful factor in overcoming a lower eFG% was FTs.
Or in another way, we netted 9 more points from the FT line. We got a net of 5 more possessions from TO battle. At 1.2 pts per possession (rounding up for this game), that is a net of 6.0 points (our other best performing metric). We netted 3.6 pts from better offensive rebounding.
All other things being equal, we would have lost by ~10 points based on eFG%.
So for this specific game, our ability to outperform from the FT line was the most important factor.
My guess is that Jaybee, besides just being disagreeable, is a "data-driven" type person, as opposed to a "data-guided" approach, that takes individual story lines into consideration.
That's a lot of words to acknowledge that FT% is a lot less significant than FTR
Quote from: wisblue on November 16, 2024, 04:06:10 PMOne little thing about last night's game that I haven't heard mentioned, and that didn't make any difference.
But, I thought Maryland should have been whistled for a turnover on their last possession. I know that a player inbounding after a FG or made FT can pass to another player who is out of bounds. But on that play, I didn't think the Maryland player receiving the pass had established himself as out of bounds before he first touched the ball. It was like he received the pass while in bounds and carried it out.
Did anyone else see that, or was everyone already celebrating the win? If it had been a one score game, or if they had hit the 3, I would have been screaming at the TV.
Yes it did look like he was still in bounds
Quote from: wisblue on November 16, 2024, 04:06:10 PMOne little thing about last night's game that I haven't heard mentioned, and that didn't make any difference.
But, I thought Maryland should have been whistled for a turnover on their last possession. I know that a player inbounding after a FG or made FT can pass to another player who is out of bounds. But on that play, I didn't think the Maryland player receiving the pass had established himself as out of bounds before he first touched the ball. It was like he received the pass while in bounds and carried it out.
Did anyone else see that, or was everyone already celebrating the win? If it had been a one score game, or if they had hit the 3, I would have been screaming at the TV.
My take watching it was that Maryland seemed to believe they needed to stick with a trick play that was devised on the assumption that MU would be pressing the inbounds play. We didn't do so aggressively and so the MD guys didn't really need to do what they did. But, they did it to set up the rest of their play. Maybe the confusion of what to do arose and led to him delaying getting established out of bounds in order to receive the pass?
Just got home from DC, so I am late to the party. Loved the way our guys played on the road with a home crowd that was louder than a thunderstorm. My ears are still ringing.
Cameron Brown's parents were sitting across the aisle from us and are very proud that their son is on the team.
Lots of high fives between MU fans on the way out. Met an '84 alum in the hotel at breakfast who is going to Nassau for the Georgia game.
Not sure if those watching on TV heard the "We are...Marquette!" cheer after the final buzzer, but it was loud and clear in the arena until the UM Boo Crew drowned them out. I'm guessing Doctor V and his gang of 20 alums had a lot to do with the cheer being heard.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 04:32:30 PMLOL you were the one who brought up Ft%
you don't know how it works...
Actually I only argued that FTs matter, in contradiction to JayBee's typical mantra.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2024, 07:01:16 PMThat's a lot of words to acknowledge that FT% is a lot less significant than FTR
It was a lot of words, I agree. I was bored, and wanted to highlight that in this particular game, FTs did matter, and that statistics/data analytics are valuable as predictive tools across all games, but the important factors in each individual game is unique to that game. Also, I should have just ignored JayBee's inane banter.
If you don't know, when Jay Bee says "FTs no matta" it is shorthand for "FT% no matta" which is further shorthand for "FT% technically mattas but is statistically insignificant compared to eFG%, TO%, OR%, and FTR".
The irony of course being that Jay Bee is the first to jump down others' throats for not being precise with their wording
Queen was mouthy in the pre-game presser. Any comments post-game???
Quote from: ski44 on November 16, 2024, 09:57:15 PMQueen was mouthy in the pre-game presser. Any comments post-game???
Mouthy? He just said all Ben does is shoot, which is basically true, then dropped 24.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 16, 2024, 10:04:52 PMMouthy? He just said all Ben does is shoot, which is basically true, then dropped 24.
Then why wasn't he made available post-game? Usually guys who drop 24 in a winning or losing effort are part of the post game presser.
Quote from: ski44 on November 16, 2024, 10:22:51 PMThen why wasn't he made available post-game? Usually guys who drop 24 in a winning or losing effort are part of the post game presser.
Don't know. Don't care.
Imagine caring what a 19 year old says in a pregame presser.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 16, 2024, 04:11:08 PMI just watched. If the rule is you have to re-establish, then you are correct. He definitely did not.
The rule is that the player can pass to a teammate who is also out of bounds. By rule, a player is out of bounds when he touches the floor or on object on or outside the boundary line. If a player is airborne his status is determined by where he last touched the floor.
The way I saw that play it looked funny live. When I replayed it and slowed it down, it looked to me like the Maryland player who received the pass was running to get out of bounds but hadn't stepped on or over the line when he hopped, caught the ball, and landed out of bounds.
It was close, and maybe the referee thought the player touched the floor OB before he touched the ball. But the pass looked like it was thrown slightly forward to connect with the moving player. Usually when you see that play the receiving player steps and is standing clearly OB when receiving the ball.
Quote from: ski44 on November 16, 2024, 09:57:15 PMQueen was mouthy in the pre-game presser. Any comments post-game???
It seemed like he was pretty mouthy with the refs during the game too, especially for a freshman playing his first competitive college game.
Quote from: wisblue on November 16, 2024, 11:21:26 PMIt seemed like he was pretty mouthy with the refs during the game too, especially for a freshman playing his first competitive college game.
Was getting close to picking up a T on that Stevie call.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 16, 2024, 08:23:24 PMNot sure if those watching on TV heard the "We are...Marquette!" cheer after the final buzzer, but it was loud and clear in the arena until the UM Boo Crew drowned them out. I'm guessing Doctor V and his gang of 20 alums had a lot to do with the cheer being heard.
I did not, but it looked like there were a number of empty seats in the sections behind the basket (above the student section).
They were like rats fleeing from a sinking ship after we went up by 8. ;D
Despite the near-stampede for the exits, there were plenty of loud Boo Crew fans remaining.
On the brighter side...a couple of UM fans and I talked about the game and the teams without any guns drawn. The UM fans know ball.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 16, 2024, 12:17:06 AMLol. So strange so many still don't get it
macro vs. micro.
Quote from: This is what Orwell warned us about...SMH on November 16, 2024, 03:17:09 PMThey were saying "hey you suck" with the Hey song. Marquette must have been appalled
Not as bad as 'Rock Your Body' performed by Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson at the 2004 Superbowl.