Should you tip your accountant? I always thought no but I get mixed answers from people.
I would say no. Would you tip your teacher, or lawyer?
They are professionals that you are paying to do their job.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 11, 2024, 07:43:49 PMShould you tip your accountant? I always thought no but I get mixed answers from people.
You shouldn't tip anyone.
Quote from: forgetful on November 11, 2024, 07:47:26 PMI would say no. Would you tip your teacher, or lawyer?
They are professionals that you are paying to do their job.
That's exactly what I said. Ty.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 11, 2024, 07:43:49 PMShould you tip your accountant? I always thought no but I get mixed answers from people.
Quote from: forgetful on November 11, 2024, 07:47:26 PMI would say no. Would you tip your teacher, or lawyer?
They are professionals that you are paying to do their job.
I agree with this analysis.
A (COW) -ntant tipping is great for a drunken Saturday night.
Quote from: tower912 on November 11, 2024, 07:56:18 PMA (COW) -ntant tipping is great for a drunken Saturday night.
Totally uncalled for.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 11, 2024, 07:55:23 PMDo you know where my reference is from?
Yes, Reservoir Dogs.
Only commies share money with working people
I tip my dental hygienist.
Tried to give a gift card to an attorney who helped me out, was told they cannot accept gifts. I assume tips fall into that category. I never tip my accountant or financial advisor, however I have given them a little holiday something or bought the office lunch after tax time. So, I guess I have "tipped" to some degree.
Just used Rover for the first time and upon picking up my pooch and closing out the transaction I was asked/prompted to tip. I did. I grew up in the hospitality industry, so tipping is part of my dna, and I tip a high amount (dollar wise). Even I think tipping expectations are both getting out of hand and increasingly difficult to determine to whom for what amount.
Ty Jump.
Nm.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 11, 2024, 07:43:49 PMShould you tip your accountant? I always thought no but I get mixed answers from people.
That you're even asking this question shows that tipping culture has gotten out of control.
My friend asked me if he should tip his children's teachers last year.
WTF.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 12, 2024, 07:36:17 AMThat you're even asking this question shows that tipping culture has gotten out of control.
My friend asked me if he should tip his children's teachers last year.
WTF.
It is out of control.
I gave my real estate attorney a $200 gift card to Dairy Queen after they helped me close a deal. They mentioned loving Dilly Bars and I wanted to enable their Dilly Bar habit.
Gift giving is different from tipping, imo. Like I wouldn't tip a teacher, but I would gladly give a generous gift to a wonderful teacher.
We have always generously given gift cards to teachers. They are underpaid for what they do and are not treated or compensated as the professionals.
For accountants and lawyers, just like doctors, I would never think of tipping. maybe if somebody did a favor and undercharged or didn't charge, or went way beyond what should be expected, then a generous gift card would be an in order.
I guess I pay my CPAs and attorneys too much. They buy me gifts and take me to games and concerts.
I guess I'm in the NO Tip group.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 12, 2024, 08:53:14 AMI gave my real estate attorney a $200 gift card to Dairy Queen after they helped me close a deal. They mentioned loving Dilly Bars and I wanted to enable their Dilly Bar habit.
Gift giving is different from tipping, imo. Like I wouldn't tip a teacher, but I would gladly give a generous gift to a wonderful teacher.
That's weird. You must have the wrong address for me, I haven't received any generous gifts for teaching you how oligarchies work.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 12, 2024, 01:23:48 PMThat's weird. You must have the wrong address for me, I haven't received any generous gifts for teaching you how oligarchies work.
You can't teach someone refusing to learn
Quote from: GOO on November 12, 2024, 12:52:37 PMWe have always generously given gift cards to teachers. They are underpaid for what they do and are not treated or compensated as the professionals.
For accountants and lawyers, just like doctors, I would never think of tipping. maybe if somebody did a favor and undercharged or didn't charge, or went way beyond what should be expected, then a generous gift card would be an in order.
weird behavior tbh. I have teachers and administrators throughout my family and they said small gifts were fine, but money or gift cards would be abnormal.
These people may be underpaid, but tipping them... I dunno.
I've switched back to pre-pandemic tipping. Restaurant table-service only, delivery people, tour guides, etc.
No, I'm not tipping the Taco Bell cashier or the ice cream scoop person.
If you've spent 30 seconds serving me, I'll be paying the total.
How about movers?
You move across town or across country. You pay good money for a moving company, which pays its employees well above minimum wage - $18 to $25 per hour is the norm. They drive the truck to your new house and put the items into the house, which is their job. And then they expect tips of $20 or $40 or more apiece.
Yay or nay?
Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2024, 10:06:57 AMHow about movers?
You move across town or across country. You pay good money for a moving company, which pays its employees well above minimum wage - $18 to $25 per hour is the norm. They drive the truck to your new house and put the items into the house, which is their job. And then they expect tips of $20 or $40 or more apiece.
Yay or nay?
Yay.
Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2024, 10:06:57 AMHow about movers?
You move across town or across country. You pay good money for a moving company, which pays its employees well above minimum wage - $18 to $25 per hour is the norm. They drive the truck to your new house and put the items into the house, which is their job. And then they expect tips of $20 or $40 or more apiece.
Yay or nay?
I have always tipped movers with cash in the past. Usually $40 or so apiece.
My friend booked a flight on Hopper last night and was asked if she would like to tip at the end of the process.
I tip movers. We're doing a reno and we tipped the junk removal guys because it was a hell of a lot of work getting the stuff we wanted to get rid of out of the basement.
I've largely gone back to the pre-pandemic tipping as well.
As for teachers, so far we've had a room parent that passes the hat around for a class gift at the end of the year.
If the income tax on tips is actually eliminated, everyone will want to be paid in tips.
No politics, please, hey?
OK, for those who answered that they do tip movers, a follow-up:
Why?
As mentioned, these aren't restaurant employees who are forced to rely on tips because they make $3/hour. How is the decision whether or not to tip a $20/hour mover any different from the decision whether or not to tip the $20/hour bicycle repair person (who probably gets zero tips)?
I'm not trying to be snarky. Just trying to get an idea why tipping a $20/hour employee is seen as necessary by some.
Thanks.
Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2024, 12:49:25 PMOK, for those who answered that they do tip movers, a follow-up:
Why?
As mentioned, these aren't restaurant employees who are forced to rely on tips because they make $3/hour. How is the decision whether or not to tip a $20/hour mover any different from the decision whether or not to tip the $20/hour bicycle repair person (who probably gets zero tips)?
I'm not trying to be snarky. Just trying to get an idea why tipping a $20/hour employee is seen as necessary by some.
Thanks.
Because it is generally accepted that you do so.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 13, 2024, 12:33:51 PMIf the income tax on tips is actually eliminated, everyone will want to be paid in tips.
Let the market decide
So, thoughts on Madonna's 'Like a Virgin'?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 13, 2024, 01:20:22 PMSo, thoughts on Madonna's 'Like a Virgin'?
false advertising?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 13, 2024, 01:20:22 PMSo, thoughts on Madonna's 'Like a Virgin'?
Big at the time. Like pretty much all of her stuff, doesn't really hold up.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on November 13, 2024, 01:21:02 PMfalse advertising?
*Like* a virgin. She never claimed to be one.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 13, 2024, 12:33:51 PMIf the income tax on tips is actually eliminated, everyone will want to be paid in tips.
Good thinking, I'll update my invoices to Net 0 suggested tips
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 13, 2024, 08:45:59 AMweird behavior tbh. I have teachers and administrators throughout my family and they said small gifts were fine, but money or gift cards would be abnormal.
These people may be underpaid, but tipping them... I dunno.
What state do you live in? Here in New Jersey the median teacher's salary is almost 80k. Most school administrators make 6 figures.
I always try to tip the table server in cash. That way it is up to them to declare it or not.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 13, 2024, 01:51:11 PMWhat state do you live in? Here in New Jersey the median teacher's salary is almost 80k. Most school administrators make 6 figures.
I always try to tip the table server in cash. That way it is up to them to declare it or not.
I applaud your complicity in tax fraud!
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 13, 2024, 01:56:39 PM*You're
Thanks for the correction. I guess Rocky has not updated auto correct or implemented and AI for grammar corrections. He better get on it as some of us baby boomers could use the help.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 13, 2024, 01:51:11 PMWhat state do you live in? Here in New Jersey the median teacher's salary is almost 80k. Most school administrators make 6 figures.
I always try to tip the table server in cash. That way it is up to them to declare it or not.
Is 80k a lot compared to cost of living in NJ?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 13, 2024, 02:01:38 PMHe better get on it as some of us baby boomers could use the help.
He's just a moderator. Not a miracle worker.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 13, 2024, 02:15:35 PMHe's just a moderator. Not a miracle worker.
On Chrome, if you right click in the text box after you write, you can select "Help me write", which created this for me (but you have to start with at least 3 words):
Screenshot from 2024-11-13 13-29-52.png
I think tipping movers a bit makes sense. Tipping hotel housekeeping seems different than before. It used to be easier when they actually cleaned your room daily.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 13, 2024, 03:40:22 PMI think tipping movers a bit makes sense. Tipping hotel housekeeping seems different than before. It used to be easier when they actually cleaned your room daily.
I have gotten out of that habit for that very reason.
I hook up my vet with some gift cards.
That would explain a lot.
I assume you mean your pets' vet? How extensive is the menagerie?
Quote from: tower912 on November 13, 2024, 07:19:40 PMThat would explain a lot.
I assume you mean your pets' vet? How extensive is the menagerie?
Lol.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 13, 2024, 12:33:51 PMIf the income tax on tips is actually eliminated, everyone will want to be paid in tips.
If the income tax on tips is actually eliminated, a whole lot of cheapskates will reduce the amount they tip accordingly.
What gets me is that most restaurants hand me an electronic bill that has options for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips. Not bad you say, just choose the 18%, maybe more if I received very good or excellent service. Well, these amounts are for the entire bill, INCLUDING TAX, not just the food and drink. You expect me to tip on taxes? Insanity.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 13, 2024, 08:42:58 PMIf the income tax on tips is actually eliminated, a whole lot of cheapskates will reduce the amount they tip accordingly.
Based on?
Also, this whole no income tax on tips is a terrible idea. Just because you work in a restaurant means you don't have to pay income taxes? What kind of logic is that? I know people who work in high end restaurants who pull in a TON of money from their tips, and now we're going to just exempt them from paying their share... because...???
Quote from: SoCalEagle on November 13, 2024, 09:48:07 PMWhat gets me is that most restaurants hand me an electronic bill that has options for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips. Not bad you say, just choose the 18%, maybe more if I received very good or excellent service. Well, these amounts are for the entire bill, INCLUDING TAX, not just the food and drink. You expect me to tip on taxes? Insanity.
AND STAY OFF MY LAWN!
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 07:12:45 AMBased on?
Also, this whole no income tax on tips is a terrible idea. Just because you work in a restaurant means you don't have to pay income taxes? What kind of logic is that? I know people who work in high end restaurants who pull in a TON of money from their tips, and now we're going to just exempt them from paying their share... because...???
Because ... you know why. But no politics, so no discuss!
Quote from: MU82 on November 14, 2024, 09:28:58 AMBecause ... you know why. But no politics, so no discuss!
Both candidates proposed the idea. Soooooo it isn't political.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 10:31:38 AMBoth candidates proposed the idea. Soooooo it isn't political.
It's a terrible idea, and it almost certainly isn't going to happen.
For same day movers, I would tip them in the middle of their shift, "hey, great job packing everything up, excited to get everything into the new house", give them a boost to finish the job strong, then another tip when they indeed finish the job strong.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 07:12:45 AMBased on?
Also, this whole no income tax on tips is a terrible idea. Just because you work in a restaurant means you don't have to pay income taxes? What kind of logic is that? I know people who work in high end restaurants who pull in a TON of money from their tips, and now we're going to just exempt them from paying their share... because...???
This just in...these cats weren't payin' taxes on der tips anyways, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 14, 2024, 10:50:29 AMThis just in...these cats weren't payin' taxes on der tips anyways, hey?
Do the hygienists that you don't pay enough before asking your patients to tip them pay taxes on said tips?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 14, 2024, 10:50:29 AMThis just in...these cats weren't payin' taxes on der tips anyways, hey?
I assure you, that every time a tip is entered on a credit card there is a paper trail and the server pays taxes on that money.
Cash is a bit more of a wink and nod agreement. Still is tax fraud though.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 11:08:55 AMI assure you, that every time a tip is entered on a credit card there is a paper trail and the server pays taxes on that money.
Cash is a bit more of a wink and nod agreement. Still is tax fraud though.
Lock them up
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 11:08:55 AMI assure you, that every time a tip is entered on a credit card there is a paper trail and the server pays taxes on that money.
Cash is a bit more of a wink and nod agreement. Still is tax fraud though.
4ever doesn't use his credit card at Rickey's.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 11:08:55 AMI assure you, that every time a tip is entered on a credit card there is a paper trail and the server pays taxes on that money.
Cash is a bit more of a wink and nod agreement. Still is tax fraud though.
The first part of your is undeniable, but the bolded? Technically, the IRS can track the income, but I have difficulty imagining an agent going through the credit card receipts. And the servers know this very well. Now if the restaurant owners are responsible for collecting this info by employee...then yes, the server's payment or avoidance of tax is easily identifiable.
At a lot of restaurants - perhaps most - servers share tips with back-of-room staff. Not sure how that works at tax-reporting time.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 14, 2024, 11:29:12 AMThe first part of your is undeniable, but the bolded? Technically, the IRS can track the income, but I have difficulty imagining an agent going through the credit card receipts. And the servers know this very well. Now if the restaurant owners are responsible for collecting this info by employee...then yes, the server's payment or avoidance of tax is easily identifiable.
The tips get reported as wages on the server's W2 and are certainly taxed as such. This is the case with all credit card tips... and a large part of the reason that servers want to be tipped in cash, OR have tips not be taxed.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 11:38:55 AMThe tips get reported as wages on the server's W2 and are certainly taxed as such. This is the case with all credit card tips... and a large part of the reason that servers want to be tipped in cash, OR have tips not be taxed.
Gotcha! I should have phrased my question as to whether or not the tips were reported on a W2 and if FICA had been deducted. Of course the amount paid to an employee would be shown on the restaurant's records. I just wondered if it was simply a cash (actually a check) payout.
On another subject-cash businesses (in past decades) were favorites for hiding Mafia money and profits from the mob owned businesses. I'm sure they hated the credit cards becoming the go-to payment method.
I tip significantly in bars, especially when I am there with fellow MU alumni. But thankfully, they tip me back upright.
Quote from: SoCalEagle on November 13, 2024, 09:48:07 PMWhat gets me is that most restaurants hand me an electronic bill that has options for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips. Not bad you say, just choose the 18%, maybe more if I received very good or excellent service. Well, these amounts are for the entire bill, INCLUDING TAX, not just the food and drink. You expect me to tip on taxes? Insanity.
Let's say it is a $100 restaurant tab. Let's go with 8% tax so $108.
Tip 20% on the pretax is $20, tip on post tax is $21.60...... Insane!
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 10:31:38 AMBoth candidates proposed the idea. Soooooo it isn't political.
TEAL?
Quote from: pbiflyer on November 14, 2024, 12:23:19 PMI tip significantly in bars, especially when I am there with fellow MU alumni. But thankfully, they tip me back upright.
;D
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 11:08:55 AMI assure you, that every time a tip is entered on a credit card there is a paper trail and the server pays taxes on that money.
Cash is a bit more of a wink and nod agreement. Still is tax fraud though.
This is 100% accurate and not taxing tips is stupid. When I tought tennis lessons over the summer in high school and college over 1/2 of my income was from private lessons. I would get paid in cash and checks from my customers. My grandma and mom were adamant that I keep a detailed record of every dime I earned, even though I knew others in the same line of work didn't do he same. Now, technically these aren't tips, but it's the same logic. My grandma always told me if I didn't keep a record and pay taxes on my income, I am committing a serious crime and could go to jail. The risk of that isn't worth a few extra bucks.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 14, 2024, 12:43:15 PMTEAL?
no
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/no-tax-on-tips-an-answer-in-search-of-a-question/
QuoteIn recent weeks, both Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump have announced proposals to exempt tips from federal taxes, much to the chagrin of economists across the ideological spectrum.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 13, 2024, 01:51:11 PMWhat state do you live in? Here in New Jersey the median teacher's salary is almost 80k. Most school administrators make 6 figures.
In New Jersey, residents need to make $152,186 annually to afford the state's median-priced home of $495,600.
https://www.northjersey.com/story/money/real-estate/2024/04/03/nj-real-estate-annual-salary-required-to-afford-a-typical-home-in-us/73176731007/
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 14, 2024, 12:47:07 PMThis is 100% accurate and not taxing tips is stupid. When I tought tennis lessons over the summer in high school and college over 1/2 of my income was from private lessons. I would get paid in cash and checks from my customers. My grandma and mom were adamant that I keep a detailed record of every dime I earned, even though I knew others in the same line of work didn't do he same. Now, technically these aren't tips, but it's the same logic. My grandma always told me if I didn't keep a record and pay taxes on my income, I am committing a serious crime and could go to jail. The risk of that isn't worth a few extra bucks.
Thanks you, Muggs. Too many in the restaurant industry are stealing my hard earned money so they can buy drugs and get high instead of paying their fair share. Makes me vomit puke
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 14, 2024, 12:47:25 PMno
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/no-tax-on-tips-an-answer-in-search-of-a-question/
I'll respectfully submit it is political but also bipartisan.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 14, 2024, 12:47:07 PMThis is 100% accurate and not taxing tips is stupid. When I tought tennis lessons over the summer in high school and college over 1/2 of my income was from private lessons. I would get paid in cash and checks from my customers. My grandma and mom were adamant that I keep a detailed record of every dime I earned, even though I knew others in the same line of work didn't do he same. Now, technically these aren't tips, but it's the same logic. My grandma always told me if I didn't keep a record and pay taxes on my income, I am committing a serious crime and could go to jail. The risk of that isn't worth a few extra bucks.
Your grandma thinks a college student who doesn't report all his tennis lesson tips could go to jail?
Is this why you're a nervous wreck all the time?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 14, 2024, 01:18:46 PMI'll respectfully submit it is political but also bipartisan.
Stop trying to take Sultan's job
Quote from: Pakuni on November 14, 2024, 01:02:37 PMIn New Jersey, residents need to make $152,186 annually to afford the state's median-priced home of $495,600.
https://www.northjersey.com/story/money/real-estate/2024/04/03/nj-real-estate-annual-salary-required-to-afford-a-typical-home-in-us/73176731007/
[/quote
Thanks. This is the kind of info I was looking for when I asked my question
Quote from: wadesworld on November 14, 2024, 11:05:16 AMDo the hygienists that you don't pay enough before asking your patients to tip them pay taxes on said tips?
Ur udder screen name wuz bedder, hey?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 14, 2024, 01:20:00 PMYour grandma thinks a college student who doesn't report all his tennis lesson tips could go to jail?
Is this why you're a nervous wreck all the time?
They weren't tips.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 14, 2024, 12:47:07 PMThis is 100% accurate and not taxing tips is stupid. When I tought tennis lessons over the summer in high school and college over 1/2 of my income was from private lessons. I would get paid in cash and checks from my customers. My grandma and mom were adamant that I keep a detailed record of every dime I earned, even though I knew others in the same line of work didn't do he same. Now, technically these aren't tips, but it's the same logic. My grandma always told me if I didn't keep a record and pay taxes on my income, I am committing a serious crime and could go to jail. The risk of that isn't worth a few extra bucks.
Explains why you introduced her to darkness.
Quote from: pbiflyer on November 14, 2024, 12:25:28 PMLet's say it is a $100 restaurant tab. Let's go with 8% tax so $108.
Tip 20% on the pretax is $20, tip on post tax is $21.60...... Insane!
Yeah, I can do the math and see that it's a small difference, but you're missing the point of why it's insane. The amount we choose to tip for food and drink is up to all of us. $15%, 20%, or 25%, whatever we feel is appropriate for the service provided. No problem with that, but being dishonest with your customers in order to drive up that amount is, in my opinion, bad practice. Why not just be honest and set up your system to tell me the true amount of 20% ON FOOD AND DRINK and not lie to me? Why do you think this thread even started? People are tired of the small, but when added together, substantive manipulations, and the expectation to provide a tip for, in the case of tipping on THE TAX applied to your food and drink, absolutely nothing. If I want to give the server and extra $1.60 that's okay, but don't just reach into my pocket and take it from me.
Quote from: SoCalEagle on November 14, 2024, 08:19:27 PMYeah, I can do the math and see that it's a small difference, but you're missing the point of why it's insane. The amount we choose to tip for food and drink is up to all of us. $15%, 20%, or 25%, whatever we feel is appropriate for the service provided. No problem with that, but being dishonest with your customers in order to drive up that amount is, in my opinion, bad practice. Why not just be honest and set up your system to tell me the true amount of 20% ON FOOD AND DRINK and not lie to me? Why do you think this thread even started? People are tired of the small, but when added together, substantive manipulations, and the expectation to provide a tip for, in the case of tipping on THE TAX applied to your food and drink, absolutely nothing. If I want to give the server and extra $1.60 that's okay, but don't just reach into my pocket and take it from me.
Cmon...
Quote from: Pakuni on November 14, 2024, 01:02:37 PMIn New Jersey, residents need to make $152,186 annually to afford the state's median-priced home of $495,600.
https://www.northjersey.com/story/money/real-estate/2024/04/03/nj-real-estate-annual-salary-required-to-afford-a-typical-home-in-us/73176731007/
The median income for
households in New Jersey is $97,126, which is 29% higher than the US median. Teachers are certainly not under paid here and a two-teacher household could afford to purchase an albeit high median price home here in New Jersey.
What do you think about "mandatory tips" like on larger parties? In my restaurants over the years, I never did this and did not allow my employees to do it.
I was in Denver recently and ate at Hey Kiddo. My wife and I went all out, tried everything, drank everything, great time at the bar, just the two of us. Got the bill, and I see a 20% additional charge. I asked what the heck was that and was told it was for the staff. I asked if it was a gratuity and was given sort of a run around answer. It really irritated me. I have seen 3-7% before but never 20%, especially for a party of two.
It was also not made clear, meaning some places the server is up front and mentions it, I've seen some servers put a big circle around it, this time it felt sneaky. It made me feel incredibly awkward as we had a great time with the staff, I didn't know if I was supposed to add full gratuity, partial, who got what. It was unfortunately an unpleasant and to an otherwise super fun evening.
Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2024, 12:49:25 PMOK, for those who answered that they do tip movers, a follow-up:
Why?
As mentioned, these aren't restaurant employees who are forced to rely on tips because they make $3/hour. How is the decision whether or not to tip a $20/hour mover any different from the decision whether or not to tip the $20/hour bicycle repair person (who probably gets zero tips)?
I'm not trying to be snarky. Just trying to get an idea why tipping a $20/hour employee is seen as necessary by some.
Thanks.
Having moved internationally 18 times, I have two rules with movers: feed them well and tip them well. I always provide good "coffee break" food and coffee while they are working and a nice tip at the end. Especially in developing countries, this can greatly impact the outcome.
Quote from: SoCalEagle on November 14, 2024, 08:19:27 PMYeah, I can do the math and see that it's a small difference, but you're missing the point of why it's insane. The amount we choose to tip for food and drink is up to all of us. $15%, 20%, or 25%, whatever we feel is appropriate for the service provided. No problem with that, but being dishonest with your customers in order to drive up that amount is, in my opinion, bad practice. Why not just be honest and set up your system to tell me the true amount of 20% ON FOOD AND DRINK and not lie to me? Why do you think this thread even started? People are tired of the small, but when added together, substantive manipulations, and the expectation to provide a tip for, in the case of tipping on THE TAX applied to your food and drink, absolutely nothing. If I want to give the server and extra $1.60 that's okay, but don't just reach into my pocket and take it from me.
Then just calculate 20% yourself instead of lazily circling 20% after tax and griping about $1.60.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 15, 2024, 05:11:23 AMThe median income for households in New Jersey is $97,126, which is 29% higher than the US median. Teachers are certainly not under paid here and a two-teacher household could afford to purchase an albeit high median price home here in New Jersey.
What's cost of living difference between NJ and other US locations?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 15, 2024, 05:11:23 AMThe median income for households in New Jersey is $97,126, which is 29% higher than the US median. Teachers are certainly not under paid here and a two-teacher household could afford to purchase an albeit high median price home here in New Jersey.
So a profession that requires a college degree and specialized training is being paid ~20% less than the median income of all other jobs, and your argument is that they are "certainly not under paid"?
That's delusional.
And based on the numbers posted, a family of 2 teachers could barely afford the median home ($160k salary vs $152k needed). And if they have to have 2 full time workers, the cost of child care etc. would quickly price them out of even those homes.
Posts like yours highlight how out of touch with reality many people are.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 15, 2024, 10:15:07 AMWhat's cost of living difference between NJ and other US locations?
Can't give you those numbers, but the salary required to buy the median home in the US is ~106k, in NJ it is $152k, so you need to earn ~44% more in NJ just to afford your home. That doesn't take into consideration the cost of living for everything else.
.
Quote from: forgetful on November 15, 2024, 11:00:45 AMCan't give you those numbers, but the salary required to buy the median home in the US is ~106k, in NJ it is $152k, so you need to earn ~44% more in NJ just to afford your home. That doesn't take into consideration the cost of living for everything else.
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and the worst part of it all is that you'd be in New Jersey.
Quote from: WarriorFan on November 15, 2024, 06:00:50 AMHaving moved internationally 18 times, I have two rules with movers: feed them well and tip them well. I always provide good "coffee break" food and coffee while they are working and a nice tip at the end. Especially in developing countries, this can greatly impact the outcome.
This is spot on.
Quote from: forgetful on November 15, 2024, 10:56:58 AMSo a profession that requires a college degree and specialized training is being paid ~20% less than the median income of all other jobs, and your argument is that they are "certainly not under paid"?
That's delusional.
And based on the numbers posted, a family of 2 teachers could barely afford the median home ($160k salary vs $152k needed). And if they have to have 2 full time workers, the cost of child care etc. would quickly price them out of even those homes.
Posts like yours highlight how out of touch with reality many people are.
Bingo
Quote from: forgetful on November 15, 2024, 10:56:58 AMSo a profession that requires a college degree and specialized training is being paid ~20% less than the median income of all other jobs, and your argument is that they are "certainly not under paid"?
That's delusional.
And based on the numbers posted, a family of 2 teachers could barely afford the median home ($160k salary vs $152k needed). And if they have to have 2 full time workers, the cost of child care etc. would quickly price them out of even those homes.
Posts like yours highlight how out of touch with reality many people are.
The monthly payment on a 500000 mortgage at 6.9% is 3300 and that is putting nothing down on a median priced home. You are telling me that a family earning 160k cannot afford a median priced home and have nothing left over is delusional.
Also the majority of households at the 97k median income are most likely not single earner households. So, an 80k teacher making less than 20% of all other jobs is inaccurate, it's based on household income, not jobs.
As the spouse of a school teacher, we absolutely tipped the kids' teachers through high school.
Yes, summer vacation is great for teachers, but it's really only about 8 weeks long now, depending on the grade level; less if the teacher is also a coach or club moderator.
During the schoolyear, the amount of work teachers do outside the classroom is tremendous, and seems to grow every year.
Between grading, IEP meetings, parent conferences, slews of parent emails, lesson plans, etc, it's not uncommon for them to spend 4-6 hrs a day working before and after school.
Not that other industries don't require long hours, but my point is that teachers generally work their asses off. So I tip them generously. Other people seem to feel the same, because families at my wife's school are always very generous at Christmas and end of year.
Quote from: barfolomew on November 15, 2024, 03:37:28 PMAs the spouse of a school teacher, we absolutely tipped the kids' teachers through high school.
Yes, summer vacation is great for teachers, but it's really only about 8 weeks long now, depending on the grade level; less if the teacher is also a coach or club moderator.
During the schoolyear, the amount of work teachers do outside the classroom is tremendous, and seems to grow every year.
Between grading, IEP meetings, parent conferences, slews of parent emails, lesson plans, etc, it's not uncommon for them to spend 4-6 hrs a day working before and after school.
Not that other industries don't require long hours, but my point is that teachers generally work their asses off. So I tip them generously. Other people seem to feel the same, because families at my wife's school are always very generous at Christmas and end of year.
For some reason, teachers have become the enemy to some people. No doubt, there are plenty of bad ones and bad districts in our midst, but seeing it close up, the vast majority of them care greatly and just want to be able to provide a valuable learning experience for their students.
The amount of hours above and beyond the classroom hours is far greater than non-teachers think and the amount of verbal abuse they get from smarter than you parents is far greater than people can imagine.
Don't even get me started on how much out of pocket expenses teachers have as well
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 15, 2024, 02:05:29 PMThe monthly payment on a 500000 mortgage at 6.9% is 3300 and that is putting nothing down on a median priced home. You are telling me that a family earning 160k cannot afford a median priced home and have nothing left over is delusional.
Also the majority of households at the 97k median income are most likely not single earner households. So, an 80k teacher making less than 20% of all other jobs is inaccurate, it's based on household income, not jobs.
It seems to me that if there are teacher shortages in New Jersey, and by the looks of it there are, then the current compensation levels aren't sufficient. Simple supply and demand.
Quote from: forgetful on November 15, 2024, 10:56:58 AMSo a profession that requires a college degree and specialized training is being paid ~20% less than the median income of all other jobs, and your argument is that they are "certainly not under paid"?
That's delusional.
And based on the numbers posted, a family of 2 teachers could barely afford the median home ($160k salary vs $152k needed). And if they have to have 2 full time workers, the cost of child care etc. would quickly price them out of even those homes.
Posts like yours highlight how out of touch with reality many people are.
Forgetful
Didn't he say that the median HOUSEHOLD income was just under 100k? For most that includes 2 incomes. 80x2 = 160,000, well over 97,000.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 15, 2024, 04:04:41 PMForgetful
Didn't he say that the median HOUSEHOLD income was just under 100k? For most that includes 2 incomes. 80x2 = 160,000, well over 97,000.
I'm not saying you're wrong because I truly have no idea, but why do you think "most" includes 2 incomes.
Anecdotal, but in the 27-37 age range, I know far more people living alone than with a partner or roommate.
EDIT: I see in 2023 the census numbers showed 30% of US households were single occupants. That makes teaching a tough career choice. Because they are underpaid given their education level.
I don't know how anyone could argue teachers aren't underpaid. But there are a lot of things I don't know how people could argue and they do!
Quote from: wadesworld on November 15, 2024, 05:02:04 PMI don't know how anyone could argue teachers aren't underpaid. But there are a lot of things I don't know how people could argue and they do!
It's a career of choice. Compensation is based on laws of supply and demand, though they get a little more in areas where the union is strong.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 15, 2024, 03:53:30 PMFor some reason, teachers have become the enemy to some people.
It's all the CRT they teach.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 15, 2024, 04:04:41 PMForgetful
Didn't he say that the median HOUSEHOLD income was just under 100k? For most that includes 2 incomes. 80x2 = 160,000, well over 97,000.
He did say HOUSEHOLD income, I just missed it even though it was bolded. So that is on me.
That said, the average income of a teacher in New Jersey is only 14% higher than the national average, but the cost of the average home is 44% higher, which still means they are comparatively underpaid.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 15, 2024, 05:05:38 PMIt's a career of choice. Compensation is based on laws of supply and demand, though they get a little more in areas where the union is strong.
There has been a teacher shortage for as long as I can remember, and yet teachers are still underpaid.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 18, 2024, 06:14:04 AMThere has been a teacher shortage for as long as I can remember, and yet teachers are still underpaid.
School districts can probably eliminate history and science teachers to help alleviate that shortage
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 18, 2024, 06:39:51 AMSchool districts can probably eliminate history and science teachers to help alleviate that shortage
sciense R stoopid
historee blah blah blah
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 12:15:22 AMHe did say HOUSEHOLD income, I just missed it even though it was bolded. So that is on me.
That said, the average income of a teacher in New Jersey is only 14% higher than the national average, but the cost of the average home is 44% higher, which still means they are comparatively underpaid.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/chicago-tribune-rips-outlandish-teachers-union-demanding-higher-pay-should-embarrassed?dicbo=v2-NVkzeKV
95K and they're under paid.
Not sure what this has to do with New Jersey...
Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2024, 12:15:22 AMHe did say HOUSEHOLD income, I just missed it even though it was bolded. So that is on me.
That said, the average income of a teacher in New Jersey is only 14% higher than the national average, but the cost of the average home is 44% higher, which still means they are comparatively underpaid.
The average salary in New Jersey as of November 2024 is $28.38 an hour or $59,022 per year. The median household income for the state of New Jersey is $101,133. The highest median household income is $123,089 for householders in the age group of 45 to 64 years old.
School teachers are compensated very well here in New Jersey compared to everyone else.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 26, 2024, 08:09:23 AMNot sure what this has to do with New Jersey...
More to do with teachers being under paid.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 26, 2024, 08:12:33 AMMore to do with teachers being under paid.
You realize that teachers can be either underpaid or overpaid right? That circumstances are different based on cost of living, supply and demand, etc.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 26, 2024, 08:14:03 AMYou realize that teachers can be either underpaid or overpaid right? That circumstances are different based on cost of living, supply and demand, etc.
...but the assumption by Hards was that though teachers may be under paid he would not necessarily tip them but give them a small gift.
I never said all teachers were well compensated which is why I asked which state does he live in.
Brandon Johnson is a doofus and a puppet who is way over his head. The CTU and CPS are a clusterf*** that represent everything wrong and convoluted about the issues with public schooling in the US and cities.
That being said, that not even remotely representative of the entire Midwest, much less the entire country, and shouldn't be extrapolated to greater discussions about teacher pay, teacher performance, school funding, etc...
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 26, 2024, 08:14:03 AMYou realize that teachers can be either underpaid or overpaid right? That circumstances are different based on cost of living, supply and demand, etc.
Also the competency of the particular teacher.
Quote from: SoCalEagle on November 14, 2024, 08:19:27 PMYeah, I can do the math and see that it's a small difference, but you're missing the point of why it's insane. The amount we choose to tip for food and drink is up to all of us. $15%, 20%, or 25%, whatever we feel is appropriate for the service provided. No problem with that, but being dishonest with your customers in order to drive up that amount is, in my opinion, bad practice. Why not just be honest and set up your system to tell me the true amount of 20% ON FOOD AND DRINK and not lie to me? Why do you think this thread even started? People are tired of the small, but when added together, substantive manipulations, and the expectation to provide a tip for, in the case of tipping on THE TAX applied to your food and drink, absolutely nothing. If I want to give the server and extra $1.60 that's okay, but don't just reach into my pocket and take it from me.
The majority of the time that I get suggested tip amounts on a bill, it is calculated pre-tax. My practice is to tip on the full amount. Since COVID, I've raised my floor on tipping from 18% to 20%. I can't comment on tipping professionals because I don't employ any.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 26, 2024, 02:06:52 PMThe majority of the time that I get suggested tip amounts on a bill, it is calculated pre-tax. My practice is to tip on the full amount. Since COVID, I've raised my floor on tipping from 18% to 20%. I can't comment on tipping professionals because I don't employ any.
I am sold old that I remember when the rule for tipping was to triple the tax.
Of course, that was back when sales tax was 5% and the standard tip was 15%,
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 26, 2024, 08:02:24 AMhttps://www.foxnews.com/media/chicago-tribune-rips-outlandish-teachers-union-demanding-higher-pay-should-embarrassed?dicbo=v2-NVkzeKV
95K and they're under paid.
There is a massive teacher shortage in CPS, so according to supply and demand, they are grossly underpaid.
Or, do you think that teacher salary shouldn't be governed by supply and demand?