MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2024, 10:13:48 PM

Poll
Question: What was a worse loss?
Option 1: St. Thomas '23 votes: 24
Option 2: George Mason '24 votes: 7
Title: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2024, 10:13:48 PM
Which was the worse loss?
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MU24 on November 08, 2024, 10:19:56 PM
We didn't lose
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: tower912 on November 08, 2024, 10:20:35 PM
Colorado.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: The Sultan on November 08, 2024, 10:22:40 PM
Quote from: MU24 on November 08, 2024, 10:19:56 PMWe didn't lose

You should look again.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Johnny B on November 08, 2024, 10:35:14 PM
What is this ..
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: WhiteTrash on November 08, 2024, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on November 08, 2024, 10:35:14 PMWhat is this ..
Scoop
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2024, 10:38:31 PM
Quote from: tower912 on November 08, 2024, 10:20:35 PMColorado.

That was a pretty bad one, too
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 08, 2024, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2024, 10:13:48 PMWhich was the worse loss?
Looking for brownies, really bad case of munchies.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2024, 10:44:52 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 08, 2024, 10:43:31 PMLooking for brownies, really bad case of munchies.

Goldddddddbriccckkkkkkk
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 08, 2024, 10:46:59 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2024, 10:44:52 PMGoldddddddbriccckkkkkkk
Gold I was smoking hit me like a brick
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: GB Warrior on November 08, 2024, 10:48:24 PM
I'm sure there was a secret scrimmage that was worse
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MU82 on November 08, 2024, 10:53:03 PM
Radford.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 08, 2024, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on November 08, 2024, 10:35:14 PMWhat is this ..

 ;D
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 09, 2024, 01:19:27 AM
Omaha, so bad it's still affecting our metrics
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: We R Final Four on November 09, 2024, 10:32:25 AM
Western Michigan
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: fjm on November 09, 2024, 11:09:45 AM
Last night was a devastating loss. When the students looked so checked out and started chanting "fire shaka" it made me wonder, where do we go from here as a program? Maybe we can go get Todd Golden or Bo Ryan as a replacement.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 09, 2024, 11:46:39 AM
Quote from: fjm on November 09, 2024, 11:09:45 AMLast night was a devastating loss. When the students looked so checked out and started chanting "fire shaka" it made me wonder, where do we go from here as a program? Maybe we can go get Todd Golden or Bo Ryan as a replacement.
Bring Wardle home
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MU82 on November 09, 2024, 11:57:31 AM
Central Michigan on Monday will put the George Mason, St. Thomas and Radford losses to shame.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 09, 2024, 12:00:10 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 09, 2024, 11:46:39 AMBring Wardle home

At least Wardle has taken a team to the Final 4.  Shaka can't say that
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: SoCalEagle on November 09, 2024, 11:27:53 PM
Western Michigan 2005. 
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 10, 2024, 06:58:57 AM
Kansas State scrimmage.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 10, 2024, 08:26:33 AM
Mods closed the poll early to hide the truth.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: mugrad_89 on November 10, 2024, 09:32:56 AM
Can I vote for both losses?  🤔
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MU82 on November 12, 2024, 01:22:05 AM
Quote from: MU82 on November 09, 2024, 11:57:31 AMCentral Michigan on Monday will put the George Mason, St. Thomas and Radford losses to shame.

I THOUGHT I WAS JUST KIDDING!!
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 12, 2024, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: MU82 on November 12, 2024, 01:22:05 AMI THOUGHT I WAS JUST KIDDING!!

Why would you joke about something that serious
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: wisblue on November 12, 2024, 04:48:31 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on November 08, 2024, 10:35:14 PMWhat is this ..

It's one of the board's "comedians" carrying on with his painfully pathetic schtick.

Better to ignore it or laugh at how silly it is.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 12, 2024, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: wisblue on November 12, 2024, 04:48:31 PMIt's one of the board's "comedians" carrying on with his painfully pathetic schtick.

Better to ignore it or laugh at how silly it is.

Is it as funny as people freaking out about a 3-0 start?
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 12, 2024, 05:37:37 PM
Some prefer tears over laughter. Sad state of the world...
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 12, 2024, 05:46:35 PM
Quote from: Hidden User on November 12, 2024, 05:37:37 PMSome prefer tears over laughter. Sad state of the world...

3 games into the season and some are in full panic mode (yes, I know some are always in full panic mode).

The team lost its two best players.  Its best big and its best facilitator, arguably the best the program has ever had. The likely PG is out with a major injury.

Listen, there are going to be bad nights.  Everyone has them!  Houston just lost at home to a team that had to divert their plane back home because of players fighting.

The shooting has been bad but if you thought there'd be a new offense this year, I'm not sure you've been paying attention.  If you thought this would become a team laser focused on rebounding, I'm not sure you've been paying attention.

Tre and Zaide need to be better. That's why we have non-conference games. It's a big step up in minutes and from just practice. Let's let them grow like we let Kam grow, Chase grow and Joplin grow.

Relax, have a cream soda and listen to the coaches when they speak because they're telling you exactly what the team is going to do.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 12, 2024, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 12, 2024, 05:46:35 PM3 games into the season and some are in full panic mode (yes, I know some are always in full panic mode).

The team lost its two best players.  Its best big and its best facilitator, arguably the best the program has ever had. The likely PG is out with a major injury.

Listen, there are going to be bad nights.  Everyone has them!  Houston just lost at home to a team that had to divert their plane back home because of players fighting.

The shooting has been bad but if you thought there'd be a new offense this year, I'm not sure you've been paying attention.  If you thought this would become a team laser focused on rebounding, I'm not sure you've been paying attention.

Tre and Zaide need to be better. That's why we have non-conference games. It's a big step up in minutes and from just practice. Let's let them grow like we let Kam grow, Chase grow and Joplin grow.

Relax, have a cream soda and listen to the coaches when they speak because they're telling you exactly what the team is going to do.

Makes too much sense.  I don't like it.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 12, 2024, 06:25:32 PM
Counterpoint: Here is my five point plan
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 12, 2024, 05:46:35 PM3 games into the season and some are in full panic mode (yes, I know some are always in full panic mode).

The team lost its two best players.  Its best big and its best facilitator, arguably the best the program has ever had. The likely PG is out with a major injury.

Listen, there are going to be bad nights.  Everyone has them!  Houston just lost at home to a team that had to divert their plane back home because of players fighting.

The shooting has been bad but if you thought there'd be a new offense this year, I'm not sure you've been paying attention.  If you thought this would become a team laser focused on rebounding, I'm not sure you've been paying attention.

Tre and Zaide need to be better. That's why we have non-conference games. It's a big step up in minutes and from just practice. Let's let them grow like we let Kam grow, Chase grow and Joplin grow.

Relax, have a cream soda and listen to the coaches when they speak because they're telling you exactly what the team is going to do.

Rico, I'm going to state my piece, and expect that you'll ignore it or give some snarky response. So it goes.

I have you on my Ignore list due to your incessant trolling and pot-stirring. You and the three other people I ignore filled my feed with s**t and I'm glad to not have to wade through your banter.

For better or (mostly) worse, some folks still quote you and others, meaning I must or can read what I'm try to ignore. Very infrequently, I see that you have posted something of value, providing insight rather than inanity. Such as the above post. Thank you for that contribution.

Oh well, I'll not hope for greater discretion on your part with most of your future posts.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 12, 2024, 07:24:35 PM
Quote from: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 07:05:30 PMRico, I'm going to state my piece, and expect that you'll ignore it or give some snarky response. So it goes.

I have you on my Ignore list due to your incessant trolling and pot-stirring. You and the three other people I ignore filled my feed with s**t and I'm glad to not have to wade through your banter.

For better or (mostly) worse, some folks still quote you and others, meaning I must or can read what I'm try to ignore. Very infrequently, I see that you have posted something of value, providing insight rather than inanity. Such as the above post. Thank you for that contribution.

Oh well, I'll not hope for greater discretion on your part with most of your future posts.

Fair
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 12, 2024, 09:01:26 PM
One way to cut down on the crap posts is to engage with the crap posts.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 12, 2024, 09:04:06 PM
Quote from: Hidden User on November 12, 2024, 09:01:26 PMOne way to cut down on the crap posts is to engage with the crap posts.
Let's do it
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 12, 2024, 09:09:59 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 12, 2024, 09:04:06 PMLet's do it

Right there with you
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: THRILLHO on November 12, 2024, 10:03:44 PM
Quote from: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 07:05:30 PMRico, I'm going to state my piece, and expect that you'll ignore it or give some snarky response. So it goes.

I have you on my Ignore list due to your incessant trolling and pot-stirring. You and the three other people I ignore filled my feed with s**t and I'm glad to not have to wade through your banter.

For better or (mostly) worse, some folks still quote you and others, meaning I must or can read what I'm try to ignore. Very infrequently, I see that you have posted something of value, providing insight rather than inanity. Such as the above post. Thank you for that contribution.

Oh well, I'll not hope for greater discretion on your part with most of your future posts.

I mean, I get it, but this is also a thread rico started, that you clicked into.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: wisblue on November 12, 2024, 10:47:55 PM
Quote from: Hidden User on November 12, 2024, 09:01:26 PMOne way to cut down on the crap posts is to engage with the crap posts.

If the "crap posts" can be confined to crap threads (like this one) that would be progress.

It's the strings of crap posts that clog up threads where people are trying to have actual discussions and share useful information that destroy the value of the board.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 10:48:30 PM
Quote from: THRILLHO on November 12, 2024, 10:03:44 PMI mean, I get it, but this is also a thread rico started, that you clicked into.

Fair. As Rico replied to my message.

Perhaps I could've been more explicit that Rico has been on my Ignore list for more than one year; so my comment was in this thread, but not limited to this thread.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 12, 2024, 11:16:42 PM
I'd ask for my money back if I were you
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 07:26:41 AM
Quote from: wisblue on November 12, 2024, 10:47:55 PMIf the "crap posts" can be confined to crap threads (like this one) that would be progress.

It's the strings of crap posts that clog up threads where people are trying to have actual discussions and share useful information that destroy the value of the board.
There are no actual discussions or useful information in Scoop
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 07:55:12 AM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 07:26:41 AMThere are no actual discussions or useful information in Scoop

Willie has taught me a lot about college basketball and how the human anus is vital to it
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 13, 2024, 08:46:46 AM
Quote from: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 07:05:30 PMRico, I'm going to state my piece, and expect that you'll ignore it or give some snarky response. So it goes.

I have you on my Ignore list due to your incessant trolling and pot-stirring. You and the three other people I ignore filled my feed with s**t and I'm glad to not have to wade through your banter.

For better or (mostly) worse, some folks still quote you and others, meaning I must or can read what I'm try to ignore. Very infrequently, I see that you have posted something of value, providing insight rather than inanity. Such as the above post. Thank you for that contribution.

Oh well, I'll not hope for greater discretion on your part with most of your future posts.


  F'ing post of the century!!  i'm just p!ssed i didn't think of writing this like, last year.  this is the type of post that should have a poll associated with it as i believe many on this board would love to place their 10 cents worth.  he and a few others have become beyond annoying...right up there with...

https://youtu.be/aR3MDSF-IpQ




Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 08:47:58 AM
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 13, 2024, 08:46:46 AMF'ing post of the century!!  i'm just p!ssed i didn't think of writing this like, last year.  this is the type of post that should have a poll associated with it as i believe many on this board would love to place their 10 cents worth.  he and a few others have become beyond annoying...right up there with...

https://youtu.be/aR3MDSF-IpQ






6 out of 10
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: The Sultan on November 13, 2024, 09:16:54 AM
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 13, 2024, 08:46:46 AMF'ing post of the century!!  i'm just p!ssed i didn't think of writing this like, last year.  this is the type of post that should have a poll associated with it as i believe many on this board would love to place their 10 cents worth.  he and a few others have become beyond annoying...right up there with...

This is very ironic.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: The_Blaze on November 13, 2024, 09:17:15 AM
'97 NCAA Tournament Providence game.  We were the better seed and lost by 20+  Austin Croshere lit us up. 

I believe Mike Deane was the first coach ever to be kicked out of a NCAA Tournament game.

Providence had GOD ShammGOD.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 09:20:20 AM
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 13, 2024, 09:16:54 AMThis is very ironic.

We need more of
Quote from: The_Blaze on November 13, 2024, 09:17:15 AM'97 NCAA Tournament Providence game.  We were the better seed and lost by 20+  Austin Croshere lit us up. 

I believe Mike Deane was the first coach ever to be kicked out of a NCAA Tournament game.

Providence had GOD ShammGOD.

What
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: The Sultan on November 13, 2024, 09:23:29 AM
Quote from: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 07:05:30 PMRico, I'm going to state my piece, and expect that you'll ignore it or give some snarky response. So it goes.

I have you on my Ignore list due to your incessant trolling and pot-stirring. You and the three other people I ignore filled my feed with s**t and I'm glad to not have to wade through your banter.

For better or (mostly) worse, some folks still quote you and others, meaning I must or can read what I'm try to ignore. Very infrequently, I see that you have posted something of value, providing insight rather than inanity. Such as the above post. Thank you for that contribution.

Oh well, I'll not hope for greater discretion on your part with most of your future posts.


The point is that people here are freaking out over our start even though it was going to be obvious that dropping two players now playing in the NBA was going to cause people to have to play in new and expanded roles. This was always going to have to be a season, similar to Shaka's first here, where the team is going to grow throughout the year. And they're still 3-0!

Rico's style is to point this out in a way that's different no doubt. But perspective is always important.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 09:33:58 AM
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 13, 2024, 09:23:29 AMThe point is that people here are freaking out over our start even though it was going to be obvious that dropping two players now playing in the NBA was going to cause people to have to play in new and expanded roles. This was always going to have to be a season, similar to Shaka's first here, where the team is going to grow throughout the year. And they're still 3-0!

Rico's style is to point this out in a way that's different no doubt. But perspective is always important.

There's a pretty wide gulf between a fair assessment of how the team has performed so far and "freaking out."
There may be some people doing the latter, but most people are just watching the games and seeing some concerning things. Lumping them all together is kind of dumb.

Joplin and Gold aren't a combined 10-for-47 on threes because TKO and Oso are in the NBA. They're just missing wide open shots. Lowery and Norman aren't struggling because they're being asked to play new roles - they're basically playing the same roles.
It's not unreasonable to suggest/believe that things will improve as the season goes on. But it's also not unreasonable - or mean you're freaking out - to point out and discuss this team's flaws so far.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MUbiz on November 13, 2024, 09:35:24 AM
Per Synergy, there are 37 players in D1 with 10+ unguarded spot up 3s this season.

Ben Gold ranks first in attempts: 16
Ben Gold ranks 35th in 3PT%: 18.8%

Will try to dig in a little deeper this week, but found that wild.

https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/1856417625678721123
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: The Sultan on November 13, 2024, 09:42:43 AM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 09:33:58 AMThere's a pretty wide gulf between a fair assessment of how the team has performed so far and "freaking out."
There may be some people doing the latter, but most people are just watching the games and seeing some concerning things. Lumping them all together is kind of dumb.

Joplin and Gold aren't a combined 10-for-47 on threes because TKO and Oso are in the NBA. They're just missing wide open shots. Lowery and Norman aren't struggling because they're being asked to play new roles - they're basically playing the same roles.
It's not unreasonable to suggest/believe that things will improve as the season goes on. But it's also not unreasonable - or mean you're freaking out - to point out and discuss this team's flaws so far.


Yes. I should have said "some" people are freaking out.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: tower912 on November 13, 2024, 09:57:11 AM
Meh. Same stuff, different season.  Go back and see who said what.  Few surprises.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MUbiz on November 13, 2024, 09:57:39 AM
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 13, 2024, 09:42:43 AMYes. I should have said "some" people are freaking out.

I am not freaking out, but I do have a very high level of concern at this point. The next 3 games will tell me is this team legit, or were my concerns well founded?
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: tower912 on November 13, 2024, 10:02:59 AM
And that broaches another philosophical point.  Concerns?  About what?  Every season is a new adventure.  And all of the teams are going through it.   Do you believe Shaka when he says a player or team will look different in February than they do in November?  If there is a spate of injuries to the starters and MU performs poorly, does that require a coaching change?

Shoot 4-31 from 3, lose.  It isn't complicated.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 10:03:31 AM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 08:47:58 AM6 out of 10
That high???
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 10:06:37 AM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 10:03:31 AMThat high???

I'm feeling generous grading the buffoon whose basketball takes revolve around, "you're right, goose" and "you're right, Doc"
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: wadesworld on November 13, 2024, 10:07:52 AM
Quote from: MUbiz on November 13, 2024, 09:35:24 AMPer Synergy, there are 37 players in D1 with 10+ unguarded spot up 3s this season.

Ben Gold ranks first in attempts: 16
Ben Gold ranks 35th in 3PT%: 18.8%

Will try to dig in a little deeper this week, but found that wild.

https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/1856417625678721123

So, confirms they're getting the same looks as last year, they're just missing them.

The person who is not getting the same looks is Kam, and, outside of foul trouble on Monday, he has been playing great.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 10:06:37 AMI'm feeling generous grading the buffoon whose basketball takes revolve around, "you're right, goose" and "you're right, Doc"
He just missing Dung
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 10:10:28 AM
Quote from: tower912 on November 13, 2024, 10:02:59 AMAnd that broaches another philosophical point.  Concerns?  About what?  Every season is a new adventure.  And all of the teams are going through it.  Do you believe Shaka when he says a player or team will look different in February than they do in November?  If there is a spate of injuries to the starters and MU performs poorly, does that require a coaching change?

Shoot 4-31 from 3, lose.  It isn't complicated.

That's the rub.  This team should be better in February than November.  If it isn't, then I'll buy the concerns over roster construction and basketball philosophy.

Through 3 games, this looks a lot like the last 3 years.  If that's a concern, well, be concerned this teams ceiling is a 2-seed and its floor is tournament team.  And given the consensus nationally entering the season, somewhere in the middle is likely.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MUbiz on November 13, 2024, 10:31:21 AM
Quote from: tower912 on November 13, 2024, 10:02:59 AMAnd that broaches another philosophical point.  Concerns?  About what?  Every season is a new adventure.  And all of the teams are going through it.   Do you believe Shaka when he says a player or team will look different in February than they do in November?  If there is a spate of injuries to the starters and MU performs poorly, does that require a coaching change?

Shoot 4-31 from 3, lose.  It isn't complicated.

Concerns about our ability to put the ball in the basket from deep. I know 3% fluctuates throughout the year, but it isn't just BG that has had a tough start from 3.  Zaide, Tre, BG and Jop have all underperformed greatly to this point. Will it become a trend? Only time will tell. 
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: tower912 on November 13, 2024, 10:37:25 AM
Yeah, I know.  It isn't you. Scoop had the exact conversation in January.   Nearly every season.  Less so in the Rowsey, Howard,  Hauser years.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MUbiz on November 13, 2024, 10:45:50 AM
Tower, I cannot remember seeing as many airballs in the first 3 games ever to start the season. Many of the three point shots are not even close to the rim. I am an optimistic person, but I would be lying if I said there is zero concern moving forward.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Its DJOver on November 13, 2024, 10:50:22 AM
82 posted an interesting stat in the NBA thread on the Superbar.

Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2024, 09:09:33 AMToday's fun state:

The Trail Blazers shot 4-of-42 (9.5%) from deep in Sunday's loss to Memphis, which was the worst 3-point percentage in any NBA game this season. In Tuesday's win over Minnesota, they shot 18-of-32 (56.3%), which was the best.

These are the professionals making millions of dollars, and they're still wildly inconsistent.  Now compare that to a three game sample size for collegiate athletes who are expected to be even less consistent. There will be games where we shoot bad from three, there will be games where we shoot good from three, such is the way of life for any basketball team.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 10:53:01 AM
Quote from: Its DJOver on November 13, 2024, 10:50:22 AM82 posted an interesting stat in the NBA thread on the Superbar.

These are the professionals making millions of dollars, and they're still wildly inconsistent.  Now compare that to a three game sample size for collegiate athletes who are expected to be even less consistent. There will be games where we shoot bad from three, there will be games where we shoot good from three, such is the way of life for any basketball team.

Portland should shoot mid-range jumpers
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 10:57:08 AM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 10:10:28 AMThat's the rub.  This team should be better in February than November.  If it isn't, then I'll buy the concerns over roster construction and basketball philosophy.

Through 3 games, this looks a lot like the last 3 years.  If that's a concern, well, be concerned this teams ceiling is a 2-seed and its floor is tournament team.  And given the consensus nationally entering the season, somewhere in the middle is likely.

It doesn't look a lot like the last three years, though.
Last year, MU beat Rider by 30 in its second game and then went on the road and beat a really good Illinois team (which finished ahead of MU in the final KenPom, fwiw).

Two years ago, they beat Central Michigan by 24 (and it wasn't that close) in game two, and then went on the road and battled future #1 seed Purdue in a game they arguably should have won.

I don't see how back-to-back shaky performances against teams projected 13th in the A-10 and 8th in the MAC compare.
That said, I don't see many expressing complete shock at the early struggles or predicting doom. Just discussing it.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: MUbiz on November 13, 2024, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 10:57:08 AMThat said, I don't see many expressing complete shock at the early struggles or predicting doom. Just discussing it.

This is the correct take.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 11:08:52 AM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 10:57:08 AMIt doesn't look a lot like the last three years, though.
Last year, MU beat Rider by 30 in its second game and then went on the road and beat a really good Illinois team (which finished ahead of MU in the final KenPom, fwiw).

Two years ago, they beat Central Michigan by 24 (and it wasn't that close) in game two, and then went on the road and battled future #1 seed Purdue in a game they arguably should have won.

I don't see how back-to-back shaky performances against team projected 13th in the A-10 and 8th in the MAC compare.
That said, I don't see many expressing complete shock at the early struggles or predicting doom. Just discussing it.

I'm looking at whole season, big picture stuff.  After the St. Thomas loss, many people wrote the exact same things as are being said now 
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: wadesworld on November 13, 2024, 11:18:16 AM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 10:57:08 AMIt doesn't look a lot like the last three years, though.
Last year, MU beat Rider by 30 in its second game and then went on the road and beat a really good Illinois team (which finished ahead of MU in the final KenPom, fwiw).

Two years ago, they beat Central Michigan by 24 (and it wasn't that close) in game two, and then went on the road and battled future #1 seed Purdue in a game they arguably should have won.

I don't see how back-to-back shaky performances against teams projected 13th in the A-10 and 8th in the MAC compare.
That said, I don't see many expressing complete shock at the early struggles or predicting doom. Just discussing it.

You are confusing George Mason and George Washington.  GM is projected to finish 6th in the A10.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 11:18:52 AM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 11:08:52 AMI'm looking at whole season, big picture stuff.  After the St. Thomas loss, many people wrote the exact same things as are being said now 


Not going to bother looking up old posts, but I imagine we all can understand the difference between making those posts about a team that had already beaten Texas, Kansas and Illinois - plus a close loss to Purdue - versus one that has posted two subpar performances in three cupcake contests.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 11:20:46 AM
Quote from: Holy hell all time on November 13, 2024, 11:18:16 AMYou are confusing George Mason and George Washington.  GM is projected to finish 6th in the A10.

Ah, my mistake.
Either way, not a team that should cause MU fits.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on November 13, 2024, 11:31:14 AM
Quote from: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 07:05:30 PMRico, I'm going to state my piece, and expect that you'll ignore it or give some snarky response. So it goes.

I have you on my Ignore list due to your incessant trolling and pot-stirring. You and the three other people I ignore filled my feed with s**t and I'm glad to not have to wade through your banter.

For better or (mostly) worse, some folks still quote you and others, meaning I must or can read what I'm try to ignore. Very infrequently, I see that you have posted something of value, providing insight rather than inanity. Such as the above post. Thank you for that contribution.

Oh well, I'll not hope for greater discretion on your part with most of your future posts.

Added him to the IL this week too. Might be the injured list in baseball, but it is the Ignore List on Scoop 😂

Had the thought that it must be exhausting making your schtick being constantly annoying on purpose, but hey...spend your time how you wish!
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 13, 2024, 11:34:47 AM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 11:20:46 AMAh, my mistake.
Either way, not a team that should cause MU fits.

I mean we lost to the preseason 3rd place A10 team with one of our best teams in non Al history (and more returning experience). There is talent in that conference.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 12:03:17 PM
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 13, 2024, 11:31:14 AMAdded him to the IL this week too. Might be the injured list in baseball, but it is the Ignore List on Scoop 😂

Had the thought that it must be exhausting making your schtick being constantly annoying on purpose, but hey...spend your time how you wish!

I could probably crap my pants about Radford, too 
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 11:18:52 AMNot going to bother looking up old posts, but I imagine we all can understand the difference between making those posts about a team that had already beaten Texas, Kansas and Illinois - plus a close loss to Purdue - versus one that has posted two subpar performances in three cupcake contests.

The last Elite 8 team scored 47 points in a loss to UWGB.  That same year, they beat SE Louisiana 63-54 in the 2nd game of the year at home.  SE Louisiana finished 285th in KenPom.  There was another 9-point home win against NC Central. 

Shaka's first year here, probably what this team is closer to at the beginning of the season, had 11 and 5 point wins against SIUE and New Hampshire to open the season.  They began the Big East losing 3 straight as part of a 4 game losing streak.

Those teams all got better as the season went along.  One of them was supposed to be pretty good, the other we didn't know.  People should relax and have a cream soda.


Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 13, 2024, 12:20:59 PM
Putting people on ignore is Joey Hauser levels of soft.

Toughen up, snowflakes.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 01:16:30 PM
nm
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 01:24:35 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 12:09:17 PMThe last Elite 8 team scored 47 points in a loss to UWGB.  That same year, they beat SE Louisiana 63-54 in the 2nd game of the year at home.  SE Louisiana finished 285th in KenPom.  There was another 9-point home win against NC Central. 

Shaka's first year here, probably what this team is closer to at the beginning of the season, had 11 and 5 point wins against SIUE and New Hampshire to open the season.  They began the Big East losing 3 straight as part of a 4 game losing streak.

Those teams all got better as the season went along.  One of them was supposed to be pretty good, the other we didn't know.  People should relax and have a cream soda.




This isn't a terribly persuasive argument.
Sure, some teams start slow and improve.
Some teams also start slow and stay that way.
And some teams start well and regress.
I have no idea which we'll see from this team, and I'm not particularly concerned about it. I have no expectations of this year's team other than they not completely stink.


I just think it's silly to shout down, mock and shame people who visit a basketball discussion forum to discuss what they see from a basketball team. It's not like what's being said isn't true. Gold and Jop are bricking too many open shots. Lowery and Norman are struggling. The offense goes stagnant for long stretches. What that means for the rest of the season ... who knows? But don't try to make people feeling bad for discussing the obvious.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 13, 2024, 01:26:46 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 01:24:35 PMGold and Jop are bricking too many open shots. Lowery and Norman are struggling. The offense goes stagnant for long stretches. What that means for the rest of the season ... who knows?

Obvious panicking
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 01:24:35 PMThis isn't a terribly persuasive argument.
Sure, some teams start slow and improve.
Some teams also start slow and stay that way.
And some teams start well and regress.
I have no idea which we'll see from this team, and I'm not particularly concerned about it. I have no expectations of this year's team other than they not completely stink.


I just think it's silly to shout down, mock and shame people who visit a basketball discussion forum to discuss what they see from a basketball team. It's not like what's being said isn't true. Gold and Jop are bricking too many open shots. Lowery and Norman are struggling. The offense goes stagnant for long stretches. What that means for the rest of the season ... who knows? But don't try to make people feeling bad for discussing the obvious.

I prefer being Mr. Dodds of Scoop.  Please subscribe to my newsletter
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:14:33 PM
Quote from: Its DJOver on November 13, 2024, 10:50:22 AM82 posted an interesting stat in the NBA thread on the Superbar.

These are the professionals making millions of dollars, and they're still wildly inconsistent.  Now compare that to a three game sample size for collegiate athletes who are expected to be even less consistent. There will be games where we shoot bad from three, there will be games where we shoot good from three, such is the way of life for any basketball team.
'collegiate athletes'? They gettin' paid too, right?
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:24:49 PM
Quote from: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 07:05:30 PMRico, I'm going to state my piece, and expect that you'll ignore it or give some snarky response. So it goes.

I have you on my Ignore list due to your incessant trolling and pot-stirring. You and the three other people I ignore filled my feed with s**t and I'm glad to not have to wade through your banter.

For better or (mostly) worse, some folks still quote you and others, meaning I must or can read what I'm try to ignore. Very infrequently, I see that you have posted something of value, providing insight rather than inanity. Such as the above post. Thank you for that contribution.

Oh well, I'll not hope for greater discretion on your part with most of your future posts.
mug644, I hear ya, but here's the deal. Rico is a troubled lad. The dog ate his ice cream cone. The petting zoo visit turned tragic. You get the picture. Sooo...cut him some slack. It's a charitable write off.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 02:27:09 PM
Quote from: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:24:49 PMmug644, I hear ya, but here's the deal. Rico is a troubled lad. The dog ate his ice cream cone. The petting zoo visit turned tragic. You get the picture. Sooo...cut him some slack. It's a charitable write off.

Shouldn't you be worried about your brother-in-law?  Game is just about on us.  Hope your nerves are under control.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Its DJOver on November 13, 2024, 02:30:20 PM
Quote from: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:14:33 PM'collegiate athletes'? They gettin' paid too, right?

What does them getting paid have to do with them being collegiate athletes?
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:33:11 PM
Quote from: Its DJOver on November 13, 2024, 02:30:20 PMWhat does them getting paid have to do with them being collegiate athletes?
these aren't collegiate athletes. They are pro's.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 02:27:09 PMShouldn't you be worried about your brother-in-law?  Game is just about on us.  Hope your nerves are under control.
worried? ...my guy won the WH. I'm good.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Its DJOver on November 13, 2024, 02:36:26 PM
Quote from: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:33:11 PMthese aren't collegiate athletes. They are pro's.

They are by definition, collegiate athletes.

Regardless of the title you bestow on them, the underlying point is that you would not expect them to be as good as NBA players. The stats show that even NBA players are wildly inconsistent, so it would be logical to expect collegiate athletes to be even more inconsistent.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: The Sultan on November 13, 2024, 02:36:38 PM
Quote from: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:33:11 PMthese aren't collegiate athletes. They are pro's.

They're both.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: Its DJOver on November 13, 2024, 02:30:20 PMWhat does them getting paid have to do with them being collegiate athletes?
He hates them for making $
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 01:24:35 PMThis isn't a terribly persuasive argument.
Sure, some teams start slow and improve.
Some teams also start slow and stay that way.
And some teams start well and regress.
I have no idea which we'll see from this team, and I'm not particularly concerned about it. I have no expectations of this year's team other than they not completely stink.


I just think it's silly to shout down, mock and shame people who visit a basketball discussion forum to discuss what they see from a basketball team. It's not like what's being said isn't true. Gold and Jop are bricking too many open shots. Lowery and Norman are struggling. The offense goes stagnant for long stretches. What that means for the rest of the season ... who knows? But don't try to make people feeling bad for discussing the obvious.
Offense hasn't been implemented 100%
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 02:41:34 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 02:39:35 PMHe hates them for making $

No one likes the free market unless it is exploiting people for the sake of entertainment.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 02:44:28 PM
Quote from: Viper on November 13, 2024, 02:24:49 PMmug644, I hear ya, but here's the deal. Rico is a troubled lad. The dog ate his ice cream cone. The petting zoo visit turned tragic. You get the picture. Sooo...cut him some slack. It's a charitable write off.
I don't know WTF happens at MU School of Dentistry, graduates end up sort of looney and lost.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 02:40:40 PMOffense hasn't been implemented 100%

So, if I understand some of the comments here:

1. Shaka is going to run the same offense no matter what, so we better get used to it.
2. The offense - the same one that's been run for 3+ years - hasn't been fully implemented.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: wadesworld on November 13, 2024, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 02:54:11 PMSo, if I understand some of the comments here:

1. Shaka is going to run the same offense no matter what, so we better get used to it.
2. The offense - the same one that's been run for 3+ years - hasn't been fully implemented.


The offense is going to have the same principles.  Shots at the rim and from behind the arc.  Pick and roll/pop.  Get out in transition.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2024, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: Holy hell all time on November 13, 2024, 02:59:31 PMThe offense is going to have the same principles.  Shots at the rim and from behind the arc.  Pick and roll/pop.  Get out in transition.

Correct.  Paint Touches article is probably an eye into the future
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: The Sultan on November 13, 2024, 03:11:37 PM
I think Newsie is kidding - that was Buzz's excuse for why they almost lost v. Norfolk State back in the day. They hadn't installed their zone offense yet.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Holy hell all time on November 13, 2024, 02:59:31 PMThe offense is going to have the same principles.  Shots at the rim and from behind the arc.  Pick and roll/pop.  Get out in transition.

Yes, I agree with this.
I'm not buying the idea that a team whose rotation is filled almost entirely with players who've been in the system 2+ years is still implementing the offense, after six full weeks of practice and three games.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 13, 2024, 03:22:25 PM
For how much we have lauded Shaka in years past for his in game adjustments, maybe we can also believe that there will be game by game experiments and adjustments too and not use a sample size vs mid major opponents in figuring out what is effective in a new look offense.

Not everything clicks at once or works the first time. There is also something to be said for not rolling out the same thing over and over all season long from an opposition scouting standpoint too. (Cough Wojo)

Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 13, 2024, 03:33:33 PM
Quote from: mug644 on November 12, 2024, 07:05:30 PMRico, I'm going to state my piece, and expect that you'll ignore it or give some snarky response. So it goes.

I have you on my Ignore list due to your incessant trolling and pot-stirring. You and the three other people I ignore filled my feed with s**t and I'm glad to not have to wade through your banter.

For better or (mostly) worse, some folks still quote you and others, meaning I must or can read what I'm try to ignore. Very infrequently, I see that you have posted something of value, providing insight rather than inanity. Such as the above post. Thank you for that contribution.

Oh well, I'll not hope for greater discretion on your part with most of your future posts.



Good luck with that, hey?
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 03:43:25 PM
Quote from: Hidden User on November 13, 2024, 03:22:25 PMFor how much we have lauded Shaka in years past for his in game adjustments, maybe we can also believe that there will be game by game experiments and adjustments too and not use a sample size vs mid major opponents in figuring out what is effective in a new look offense.

Not everything clicks at once or works the first time. There is also something to be said for not rolling out the same thing over and over all season long from an opposition scouting standpoint too. (Cough Wojo)



To me, the issue right now is less about the system - the system is creating plenty of open looks - but the ability of some players to execute it. Shaka obviously has a lot of faith that Gold can knock down open threes. So far this year (and I'd argue for his entire MU career) Gold hasn't done much to justify that. Maybe he's just in a slump and he'll be a 38% shooter before we know it. But if not, it's going to be a big drag on the offense.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: BM1090 on November 13, 2024, 04:07:11 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 03:43:25 PMTo me, the issue right now is less about the system - the system is creating plenty of open looks - but the ability of some players to execute it. Shaka obviously has a lot of faith that Gold can knock down open threes. So far this year (and I'd argue for his entire MU career) Gold hasn't done much to justify that. Maybe he's just in a slump and he'll be a 38% shooter before we know it. But if not, it's going to be a big drag on the offense.

You don't think 34.1% over 177 attempts over two his first two years justifies that he can/will knock down open shots? That's a better percentage than Chase his first two years on more attempts, and I think most of us are good with Chase shooting the open shots and trust he'll knock them down at a decent enough clip.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 04:15:24 PM
Quote from: BM1090 on November 13, 2024, 04:07:11 PMYou don't think 34.1% over 177 attempts over two his first two years justifies that he can/will knock down open shots? That's a better percentage than Chase his first two years on more attempts, and I think most of us are good with Chase shooting the open shots and trust he'll knock them down at a decent enough clip.

I think Shaka would be foolish to make Chase shooting threes a key component of the offense. Wouldn't you?
There's a pretty significant difference between "take an open shot if it's there" and "we're going to build an offense that aims to get a 34% shooter shots."
And as for Ben's stats ... inflated by a brief hot streak in last year's conference tourney. Take out just those 4 games and he's a 29.5% shooter in the other 68 games (28.4% in 71 you include this year).
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 13, 2024, 03:11:37 PMI think Newsie is kidding - that was Buzz's excuse for why they almost lost v. Norfolk State back in the day. They hadn't installed their zone offense yet.
Correct, tbt
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: The Sultan on November 13, 2024, 04:23:30 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 04:15:24 PMI think Shaka would be foolish to make Chase shooting threes a key component of the offense. Wouldn't you?
There's a pretty significant difference between "take an open shot if it's there" and "we're going to build an offense that aims to get a 34% shooter shots."
And as for Ben's stats ... inflated by a brief hot streak in last year's conference tourney. Take out just those 4 games and he's a 29.5% shooter in the other 68 games.

I don't know what you mean by "key component," but both Chase and Ben can take 3s in the flow of the offense right?
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 13, 2024, 04:27:04 PM
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 13, 2024, 04:23:30 PMI don't know what you mean by "key component," but both Chase and Ben can take 3s in the flow of the offense right?
It seems Shaka even wants Stevie to let it fly
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 04:34:34 PM
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 13, 2024, 04:23:30 PMI don't know what you mean by "key component," but both Chase and Ben can take 3s in the flow of the offense right?

Well, again, I think there's a difference between taking an open shot in the flow of the offense and running specific sets aimed at getting a player a shot. I see the latter happening for Gold (with great success, except for the making it part), not so much Ross or Mitchell.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: BM1090 on November 13, 2024, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2024, 04:34:34 PMWell, again, I think there's a difference between taking an open shot in the flow of the offense and running specific sets aimed at getting a player a shot. I see the latter happening for Gold (with great success, except for the making it part), not so much Ross or Mitchell.

Part of the offense is setting screens and popping or rolling. Chase has hit threes after running the same action. But teams are leaving Ben because the 5 can't switch onto Kam without getting cooked. So Shaka is going to continue to do that. I don't see it as running plays for him rather than that's the most likely outcome out of that specific action. When Chase sets screens there are more possibilities and less advantages for Kam to expose as a ball handler.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Tyler COLEk on November 14, 2024, 12:05:26 AM
I have less of a concern about the accuracy of the observation that "Ben Gold needs to shoot better." Of course he does—he's shooting 19% from 3PT. I have more of a concern that it's a painfully obvious and boring point that's been made to death over the last two weeks.
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: real chili 83 on November 16, 2024, 07:23:29 AM
Last night no doubt counts as a bad loss per Rico and Newsie. 😂
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 16, 2024, 07:24:24 AM
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 16, 2024, 07:23:29 AMLast night no doubt counts as a bad loss per Rico and Newsie. 😂

It was a good loss.  We know Shaka can't beat Big Ten teams, so it was nice they were in this one on the road
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 08:50:48 AM
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 16, 2024, 07:23:29 AMLast night no doubt counts as a bad loss per Rico and Newsie. 😂
It will help our NET my friend
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 16, 2024, 11:25:41 AM
If last night was a win, does that offset the George Mason loss or do we still have work to do
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 01:38:44 PM
Quote from: Hidden User on November 16, 2024, 11:25:41 AMIf last night was a win, does that offset the George Mason loss or do we still have work to do
Lots of work to do, it was devastating. St. Thomas still an anchor on MU's neck - Rime of Ancient Mariner stuff
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 16, 2024, 02:28:41 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 01:38:44 PMLots of work to do, it was devastating. St. Thomas still an anchor on MU's neck - Rime of Ancient Mariner stuff

Samuel Taylor Coleridge was woke
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 03:18:28 PM
Quote from: Hidden User on November 16, 2024, 02:28:41 PMSamuel Taylor Coleridge was woke
At least wasn't sleep
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Shaka Shart on November 16, 2024, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 03:18:28 PMAt least wasn't sleep

I don't get it. This thread is now ruined for me
Title: Re: Worse Loss
Post by: Newsdreams on November 16, 2024, 03:28:20 PM
Quote from: Hidden User on November 16, 2024, 03:19:52 PMI don't get it. This thread is now ruined for me
Good
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