Which MU players surprised you by making it to the league?
Which MU players were you sure were going to make it, but didn't?
For me, the most obvious is Juan. I did not see that one coming. To a lesser degree, Sam and Wesley. Wesley's longevity impressed me the most. I did not think Sam was quick enough. Oops.
I cannot think of a single MU player I was sure was destined for the league that didn't make it.
Ners.
I'd say Cain, Buycks, and Juan are three that come to mind. Their best basketball days all came after MU.
Though the way the G League is structured now as a minor league, 10 day contracts, etc., "making it to the league" isn't the same as it once was, so I guess there should be less surprises.
Quote from: tower912 on November 06, 2024, 02:42:10 PMWhich MU players surprised you by making it to the league?
Juan, Amal McCaskill, Chris Crawford
Quote from: tower912 on November 06, 2024, 02:42:10 PMWhich MU players were you sure were going to make it, but didn't?
By "make it" do you mean play a single minute? Maybe Roney Eford. I thought Jeronne Maymon could have done something when he left Tennessee.
But I thought Jerel would get more than six total NBA minutes.
Fair. Around half of NBA players spend tine in the G league.
And thanks for the Cain call. Shame on me for forgetting him.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 06, 2024, 02:58:11 PMJuan, Amal McCaskill, Chris Crawford
By "make it" do you mean play a single minute? Maybe Roney Eford. I thought Jeronne Maymon could have done something when he left Tennessee.
But I thought Jerel would get more than six total NBA minutes.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 06, 2024, 02:58:11 PMBut I thought Jerel would get more than six total NBA minutes.
Jerel didn't surprise for the same reason DJO didn't surprise me. There are very few 6'2 shooting guards in the league.
Looking forward to watching Ramsey @ NBA
Henry being as bad as he was shocked me.
With DJO I thought his speed and range would get him farther than 6.5min of terrible stats.
Shocked Markus actually had decent numbers when he got long runs.
Shocked Oso has logged a minute, no range, a bit undersized, sure he can put it on the floor but he doesn't initiate contact well.
Surprised didn't make the NBA (at all):
D. James
J. Lewis
*I think both can be categorized due to unexpected injuries
Surprised didn't have a longer tenure in the NBA:
L. Hayward
V. Blue
H. Ellenson
M. Howard
Surprised made the NBA at all (and had long career):
J. Butler (just based on college trajectory)
J. Anderson (same)
S. Hauser (athleticism)
Sam being a player in the NBA doesn't surprise me. I think he gets labeled as unathletic unfairly. I actually never got that sense when he was here. Quick release, got to his spots in rhythm and to the spot to get rebounds. Yes, he's not a great defender but those other skills play quite well at the next level.
His brother, on the other hand, was none of those things, though I think he lost some of that from his injury and being a college student.
Projecting to the NBA is a tricky thing. Lots of guys look the part in college but simply don't fit in the league. And this goes back to the beginning of the NBA.
Guys that surprise us are sometimes a surprise because they weren't developed, such as Jamal, or are late bloomers, such as Juan.
Finally, we don't know a lot of these guys personally and it takes an attitude and desire to make the league and stay in the league. I think we underestimate this "intangible" across all sports.
Sam's UVA anyway.
Juan for sure. Buycks and Crawford, too.
Sam making it in the league didn't surprise me at all. He is elite in a skill the NBA values highly. And he has good instincts in other parts of the game.
As others said, I thought Henry would find a role long-term.
The more I watched Henry in the G league, the more I doubted he would make it to the NBA.
Quote from: tower912 on November 06, 2024, 08:55:09 PMThe more I watched Henry in the G league, the more I doubted he would make it to the NBA.
When I listed him I meant more like when he was drafted.
At least a few Scoopers thought Kolek would never play in the NBA.
always thought buycks and cain had that pro flow to their play. vida blue had all the tools, but...not quite sure what he was missing. attitude maybe?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 07, 2024, 12:41:51 AMalways thought buycks and cain had that pro flow to their play. vida blue had all the tools, but...not quite sure what he was missing. attitude maybe?
Whut you saying? Vida Blue was an excellent pitcher!! Had tools and used them in a long career.
Chris Crawford and JTA were the biggest surprises for me. Crawford was a stud in NBA and JTA really carved out a nice career. I used to love watching him with the Warriors.
In terms of surprises, Juan was by far the biggest surprise. Based on his time at Marquette, I never saw him getting where he ended up.
The guy that surprised me by not making much impact was Ellenson. I thought with his rebounding and ability to stretch the floor he would at least carve out a consistent bench role.
Henry Ellenson was just a turd. Polar opposite of JTA when it comes to intangibles. Wally was the better Ellenson.
Quote from: PJDunn on November 07, 2024, 06:43:33 AMChris Crawford and JTA were the biggest surprises for me. Crawford was a stud in NBA and JTA really carved out a nice career. I used to love watching him with the Warriors.
100% agree. Crawford and Juan actually had NBA careers, not just a cup of coffee like some of the others mentioned here.
Ellenson was the biggest disappointment. Everything about him screamed long NBA career except for one thing - when he shot the ball it didn't go in the basket very often.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 07, 2024, 12:41:51 AMalways thought buycks and cain had that pro flow to their play. vida blue had all the tools, but...not quite sure what he was missing. attitude maybe?
Vander Blue was missing a consistent outside shot for a SG. He fits more of a PG mold in the NBA but didn't really have those skills.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 07, 2024, 07:07:14 AMIn terms of surprises, Juan was by far the biggest surprise. Based on his time at Marquette, I never saw him getting where he ended up.
The guy that surprised me by not making much impact was Ellenson. I thought with his rebounding and ability to stretch the floor he would at least carve out a consistent bench role.
Guess there were no easy rebounds for him to get.
Quote from: tower912 on November 06, 2024, 02:42:10 PMWhich MU players surprised you by making it to the league?
Which MU players were you sure were going to make it, but didn't?
For me, the most obvious is Juan. I did not see that one coming. To a lesser degree, Sam and Wesley. Wesley's longevity impressed me the most. I did not think Sam was quick enough. Oops.
I cannot think of a single MU player I was sure was destined for the league that didn't make it.
before he played a game at MU Crean said Wes was the best NBA prospect of the three and would have a long career.
I thought Jerel could have made it as a combo guard but getting popped for weed during a pre-draft visit doomed that.
Crawford getting that big contract was a surprise.
Loved JFB when he was here, but didn't project him to be the NBA stud that he's been.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on November 07, 2024, 11:38:19 AMLoved JFB when he was here, but didn't project him to be the NBA stud that he's been.
Hayward washing out was a surprise to me between JFB, Jae, and Hayward I would have guessed Jae and Hayward would stick.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 07, 2024, 11:42:18 AMHayward washing out was a surprise to me between JFB, Jae, and Hayward I would have guessed Jae and Hayward would stick.
I knew JFB would stick. He could defend. Hayward was always undersized and wasn't the quickest. I wasn't sure about Jae but he's done pretty well for himself.
It's amazing how much players improved once they were no longer being coached by Wojo.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 07, 2024, 11:52:54 AMIt's amazing how much players improved once they were no longer being coached by Wojo.
Like who? Outside of Jamal Cain, I can't really think of one. Juan played for him for one season, and it was his best season at Marquette.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 07, 2024, 08:00:45 AMVander Blue was missing a consistent outside shot for a SG. He fits more of a PG mold in the NBA but didn't really have those skills.
Wrong player Hippie, dentist was talking about Vida
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 07, 2024, 11:59:13 AMWrong player Hippie, dentist was talking about Vida
Vida lost his fastball's edge after an injury.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 07, 2024, 11:56:55 AMLike who? Outside of Jamal Cain, I can't really think of one. Juan played for him for one season, and it was his best season at Marquette.
Oso, for example. And as has been stated, no one thought Juan was real NBA material. became much better once he left Marquette.
How many players can you name that became a significantly better player under Wojo's tutelage?
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 07, 2024, 12:04:36 PMVida lost his fastball's edge after an injury.
Details dog details, 17 yrs, 209-161, 3.27 lifetime ERA, I take it. But dentist don't appreciate...
Quote from: warriorchick on November 07, 2024, 12:11:09 PMOso, for example. And as has been stated, no one thought Juan was real NBA material. became much better once he left Marquette.
How many players can you name that became a significantly better player under Wojo's tutelage?
Sam, Markus, Sacar, Juan, JJJ, Luke Fischer, Rowsey, Greg Elliott, Theo.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 07, 2024, 12:11:09 PMOso, for example.
He played five games under Wojo before taking a medical redshirt. Of course he improved afterwards.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 07, 2024, 12:11:09 PMAnd as has been stated, no one thought Juan was real NBA material. became much better once he left Marquette.
And again, he was better his one season under Wojo than he was his three under Buzz.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 07, 2024, 12:11:09 PMHow many players can you name that became a significantly better player under Wojo's tutelage?
Not many...but I never made that claim.
I would have thought Juan Anderson and Jamal Cain would have been the obvious answers to the question of who made the NBA that you didn't think would. Chris Crawford was another guy that I didn't think of until reading the thread.
As for guys I thought could make it but didn't, the only one that comes to mind off the bat is Dominic James, who I thought, after his freshman season, had a great chance to make it.
Wes Matthews and Jae Crowder and Jimmy Butler were guys that I thought could play in the NBA when they were seniors, but they all turned out to be way better NBA players than I thought they would be.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 07, 2024, 12:11:09 PMHow many players can you name that became a significantly better player under Wojo's tutelage?
Trick question. There never was one.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on November 07, 2024, 01:52:28 PMTrick question. There never was one.
Sacar for sure. Whether that was his own work or Wojo's, I have no idea. But he improved a ton. He went from redshirting as a sophomore to the clear 2nd best player on that 19-20 team that would have made the tournament if not for COVID.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 07, 2024, 12:15:39 PMSam, Markus, Sacar, Juan, JJJ, Luke Fischer, Rowsey, Greg Elliott, Theo.
Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Maybe, Maybe, No, No, IMO.
But I'd also argue that Sam and Markus would have made the strides they did no matter who the coach was. Sacar, Juan and JJ are the best examples for me.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 07, 2024, 03:04:25 PMYes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Maybe, Maybe, No, No, IMO.
But I'd also argue that Sam and Markus would have made the strides they did no matter who the coach was. Sacar, Juan and JJ are the best examples for me.
You don't think Rowsey improved? He became a pretty nice PG as a senior, a role he hadn't played much before. I'll certainly acknowledge that his defense didn't improve, though! 🤣
Quote from: MU82 on November 07, 2024, 03:07:07 PMYou don't think Rowsey improved? He became a pretty nice PG as a senior, a role he hadn't played much before. I'll certainly acknowledge that his defense didn't improve, though! 🤣
I think Rowsey's role changed. I don't think his skills got too much better. Just my opinion, though.
With Sacar, Juan and JJ I saw undeniable progress in skill development
Quote from: BM1090 on November 07, 2024, 03:04:25 PMYes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Maybe, Maybe, No, No, IMO.
But I'd also argue that Sam and Markus would have made the strides they did no matter who the coach was. Sacar, Juan and JJ are the best examples for me.
I have very little doubt that all, or at least most, of these guys would've improved throughout their college careers no matter where they went. But that doesn't mean they didn't develop significantly under Wojo.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 06, 2024, 10:42:17 PMWhen I listed him I meant more like when he was drafted.
And when you said "Henry" i thought you were talking about Cordell Henry, figured i forgot about him getting some NBA run.
Ellenson's time at Marquette and after are such an afterthought.
Quote from: MU_B on November 07, 2024, 03:44:04 PMAnd when you said "Henry" i thought you were talking about Cordell Henry, figured i forgot about him getting some NBA run.
Ellenson's time at Marquette and after are such an afterthought.
Maybe the blandest 20 win season MU's ever had?
Buycks is the one that surprised me the most. Never considered him a possibility. Juan at least looked the part at MU but I never thought his play was good enough to make it.
HEllenson is definitely the one that I thought would have a longer and better NBA career. I never thought he'd be a starter, but a consistent bench player at least. He's still playing, but I also thought that DJ Carton oozed NBA potential.
I'm shocked that Trend Blackledge never won an NBA dunk contest.
Tom Copa -- 33 games w/ the Spurs in 91-92.
Quote from: Afroman on November 08, 2024, 12:03:28 PMTom Copa -- 33 games w/ the Spurs in 91-92.
Good call.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 07, 2024, 08:00:45 AMVander Blue was missing a consistent outside shot for a SG. He fits more of a PG mold in the NBA but didn't really have those skills.
that was on Vander, not any coaches. When he was on the U18 team before college the coaching staff there told him he needed to adjust his shooting form and he blew them off, basically saying if he made the team and was ranked as he was there was nothing he had to do differently.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 11, 2024, 09:58:02 AMthat was on Vander, not any coaches. When he was on the U18 team before college the coaching staff there told him he needed to adjust his shooting form and he blew them off, basically saying if he made the team and was ranked as he was there was nothing he had to do differently.
And he would have been the PG had he stayed his senior year.