With the next phase of the WFH/hybrid discussion popping up, I'm curious what everyone's commute is (or would be if they went to the office provided they live local)?
I'm always shocked when you see people on social media talking about how they would never go back to the office cause their commute was "easily 2 hours each morning" or "3.5-4 hours round trip everyday". Granted people lie and exaggerate to prove their point, but I would think there is at least some element of truth. But empirically, I've really known nothing like that.
My current commute is 5-7 min each way. The longest in the office is probably 15 min each way. When we were still in Wisconsin, it was about the same and even our CFO coming to the north suburbs from Brookfield only had about 25 min and he was by far the longest (a former employee came from Hartford, so that was probably close)
But my siblings in Dallas, DC, and NYC have nowhere close to an hour. My youngest sister used to live on the UES and worked at 1 World Trade and got there pretty consistently in under 45 min at worst.
When I lived in Chicago, my worst commute was 2 buses or a bus and a long walk and that was probably 45 min on a bad traffic day. But I had coworkers coming in from Barrington and Tinley Park on the Metra and getting to the office in around an hour. Hell, my second to last office was in Streeterville and I had a coworker who had the Metra, the water taxi, and then a bus to get to the office and she still was under an hour.
20 miles each way, on average takes 25 minutes (40ish at the worst).
Quote from: JWags85 on June 19, 2024, 04:07:11 PM
With the next phase of the WFH/hybrid discussion popping up, I'm curious what everyone's commute is (or would be if they went to the office provided they live local)?
I'm always shocked when you see people on social media talking about how they would never go back to the office cause their commute was "easily 2 hours each morning" or "3.5-4 hours round trip everyday". Granted people lie and exaggerate to prove their point, but I would think there is at least some element of truth. But empirically, I've really known nothing like that.
My current commute is 5-7 min each way. The longest in the office is probably 15 min each way. When we were still in Wisconsin, it was about the same and even our CFO coming to the north suburbs from Brookfield only had about 25 min and he was by far the longest (a former employee came from Hartford, so that was probably close)
But my siblings in Dallas, DC, and NYC have nowhere close to an hour. My youngest sister used to live on the UES and worked at 1 World Trade and got there pretty consistently in under 45 min at worst.
When I lived in Chicago, my worst commute was 2 buses or a bus and a long walk and that was probably 45 min on a bad traffic day. But I had coworkers coming in from Barrington and Tinley Park on the Metra and getting to the office in around an hour. Hell, my second to last office was in Streeterville and I had a coworker who had the Metra, the water taxi, and then a bus to get to the office and she still was under an hour.
My driver would know better than me
12-15 minutes.
40 feet from BR to office (7 seconds). Work from home.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 19, 2024, 04:07:11 PM
With the next phase of the WFH/hybrid discussion popping up, I'm curious what everyone's commute is (or would be if they went to the office provided they live local)?
I'm always shocked when you see people on social media talking about how they would never go back to the office cause their commute was "easily 2 hours each morning" or "3.5-4 hours round trip everyday". Granted people lie and exaggerate to prove their point, but I would think there is at least some element of truth. But empirically, I've really known nothing like that.
My current commute is 5-7 min each way. The longest in the office is probably 15 min each way. When we were still in Wisconsin, it was about the same and even our CFO coming to the north suburbs from Brookfield only had about 25 min and he was by far the longest (a former employee came from Hartford, so that was probably close)
But my siblings in Dallas, DC, and NYC have nowhere close to an hour. My youngest sister used to live on the UES and worked at 1 World Trade and got there pretty consistently in under 45 min at worst.
When I lived in Chicago, my worst commute was 2 buses or a bus and a long walk and that was probably 45 min on a bad traffic day. But I had coworkers coming in from Barrington and Tinley Park on the Metra and getting to the office in around an hour. Hell, my second to last office was in Streeterville and I had a coworker who had the Metra, the water taxi, and then a bus to get to the office and she still was under an hour.
Eliminate mass transit as an option like here in ATL and see what your commutes mentioned above look like. I am now WFH thank god but I took a job last summer in west midtown ATL and from northern 'burbs it was easily an hour to 1:15 each way. That's in the summer without school busses and related traffic issues. Longest it ever took was 2 hours (one way). Company owner was adamant about being in office four days/week, even though all I did was sit on teams calls with people in other offices all day. It was a crap show.
15-20 if I go in non rush hour. 30 or so peak rush hour
The last 5 years I worked, I walked 10 minutes.
A flight of stairs from my bedroom to my kitchen table. Sometimes a few extra steps to my back deck when the weather cooperates.
5 miles. Takes 15 minutes door to door. 1 roundabout, 1 stoplight, 1 stop sign. Come home for lunch every day.
Wish there was a safe bike route, but back roads that wind with no shoulder and 55 MPH speed limits make that a no go.
Current commute: Down a flight of stairs, with occasional office visits 30 minutes away.
Former commute: Various locations, the nearest being about 35 minutes from home, the furthest almost an hour.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 19, 2024, 05:13:43 PM
15-20 if I go in non rush hour. 30 or so peak rush hour
Same.
Edit: that's been my commute living here in Indianapolis the last 8 years. Prior to that, in Chicago, it was 30min-2 hours
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 19, 2024, 06:00:37 PM
Same.
Edit: that's been my commute living here in Indianapolis the last 8 years. Prior to that, in Chicago, it was 30min-2 hours
I also have an understanding with my boss that coming into the office could mean waiting until the morning calls with the east coast are finished up and traffic is subsided. The flexibility is great. (In 2-3 days a week but only one mandatory day). If I were on the west side of Portland it would probably take an hour
5 minutes to my office from home. One of the reasons I decided to settle in MKE after a rough commute by car in Chicago for a number of years.
15-20 minutes each way. Prior to my moving office to downtown MKE, it was six minute walk or one minute drive.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 19, 2024, 04:18:59 PM
40 feet from BR to office (7 seconds). Work from home.
Same for me for last 20 years. Pre Covid, it was on a plane at least twice a month. Now more like once every couple of months, there are less folks in the office anymore and are comfortable with Teams/Zoom.
48 miles in 50 minutes twice a day from my rural property to Madison.
Used to be same distance commute to Milwaukee, but with traffic.
No traffic and 5 minutes of city driving. Stream a book on tape or podcast and the miles fly by.
Less than 10 minutes door to door. 15 minutes if it's a nice day and I take my motorcycle (I refuse to ride on I-95 unless it 100% necessary).
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 19, 2024, 04:18:59 PM
40 feet from BR to office (7 seconds). Work from home.
Same. But I head downstairs for coffee first, which triples my commute distance.
25ish minutes each way. I have to go in Tues-Thurs. Been using that time to listen to some audio books.
When I still lived in Libertyville, it was 1:20 door to door. Now, it's about 40 feet door to door.
When I come back for the summer, it's a 10 minute walk from my condo to the El and a 15 minute ride to the Mart. It's then 10 minutes to my office.
1 mile. Typically walk 15-20 minutes from May through October. Drive more in the winter.
Depends on if I left my laptop next to my bed or in my office.
Pre-work from home, my longest commute was 10 minutes in the morning, 20-30 minutes in the evening (during the academic year). 5 minutes both ways during the summer.
20 min
11 miles 3 days a week. Stairs to the basement 2 days a week.
If I take the train, a 7 minute drive to train plus 3 minute walk from where I park, 16 minute train ride, 8 minute walk= 35 minutes.
If I drive, 22 minutes if no traffic, up to 40 with traffic, plus 2 minute walk. So 24 to 42 minutes. Hybrid gets me there and back without gas 5 months of the year. In dead of winter, it only gets me a one-way, and I can charge (first 2 hours free which usually gets me enough, but I have to go to my car and unplug).
Been in the same house 35 years; same office for 23 (and 3 other downtown offices previously). I've used two different train lines and two different El lines depending on various. And drive is different almost every time if there is traffic. Not reliant on the highway.
For the last 15 years my commute was 25-40 minutes depending on traffic.
I started a new job on June 1 and it's WFH, so my commute is nothing unless I'm traveling.
My first week I traveled to the company warehouse in Charleston, SC for orientation, laptop set-up and strategy with the new boss.
I hope we find a way to get this thread locked down. Scoop is on a roll!!
Quote from: Goose on June 20, 2024, 09:20:37 AM
I hope we find a way to get this thread locked down. Scoop is on a roll!!
Commutes would be a lot better if we had real public transit options and cities were free of car congestion
Ya can get a good donkey on Ebay most daze, hey?
Commutes were better listening to Rush on the radio.
Quote from: Goose on June 20, 2024, 09:40:58 AM
Commutes were better listening to Rush on the radio.
He was an incredible grifter, no doubt.
Quote from: Goose on June 20, 2024, 09:40:58 AM
Commutes were better listening to Rush on the radio.
I bet the people in Gaza wish they could commute. Imperialist.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 20, 2024, 09:41:46 AM
He was an incredible grifter, no doubt.
Pretty sure Goose was talking about the rock group. He would never make the kind of political comment that could contribute to a thread getting locked.
Quote from: Goose on June 20, 2024, 09:40:58 AM
Commutes were better listening to Rush on the radio.
At first, I thought you were talking about the band.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 20, 2024, 09:51:35 AM
At first, I thought you were talking about the band.
I think that it was ambiguous was what made it clever.
Too long. 35-40 min, every day. Now that WFH exists, people who actually commute to work on a daily basis should receive higher compensation than the WFH crew. Gas, milelage, tolls...it all adds up... the WFH contingent effectively received bonuses by not having to shell out $$$ to get to the office every day. Personally, I think WFH should be scrapped altogether.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 20, 2024, 09:54:05 AM
Too long. 35-40 min, every day. Now that WFH exists, people who actually commute to work on a daily basis should receive higher compensation than the WFH crew. Gas, milelage, tolls...it all adds up... the WFH contingent effectively received bonuses by not having to shell out $$$ to get to the office every day. Personally, I think WFH should be scrapped altogether.
Get a better job
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 20, 2024, 09:54:05 AM
Too long. 35-40 min, every day. Now that WFH exists, people who actually commute to work on a daily basis should receive higher compensation than the WFH crew. Gas, milelage, tolls...it all adds up... the WFH contingent effectively received bonuses by not having to shell out $$$ to get to the office every day. Personally, I think WFH should be scrapped altogether.
You better get used it. WFH saves everyone time and money, and productivity isn't impacted.
Yeah, I work in my jams every day, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 20, 2024, 10:11:23 AM
Yeah, I work in my jams every day, hey?
You wear pajamas while sticking your fingers in people's mouths?
aka scrubs, hey?
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 20, 2024, 09:54:05 AM
Too long. 35-40 min, every day. Now that WFH exists, people who actually commute to work on a daily basis should receive higher compensation than the WFH crew. Gas, milelage, tolls...it all adds up... the WFH contingent effectively received bonuses by not having to shell out $$$ to get to the office every day. Personally, I think WFH should be scrapped altogether.
Geez. I actually agree with you that employees who have to commute should get some sort of financial recognition of that time spent. But youre reaction to seeing someone else find a good situation is to lash out and say they should be miserable like me instead of focusing on how you can improve things for yourself and others in your situation.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 20, 2024, 10:38:01 AM
Geez. I actually agree with you that employees who have to commute should get some sort of financial recognition of that time spent. But youre reaction to seeing someone else find a good situation is to lash out and say they should be miserable like me instead of focusing on how you can improve things for yourself and others in your situation.
Reed the Bible, pal
Quote from: withoutbias on June 20, 2024, 10:24:52 AM
You wear pajamas while sticking your fingers in people's mouths?
4ever in his Jams.
(https://dovetailchicago.com/cdn/shop/products/vintage80ssurflineoriginaljams.jpg?v=1629651969&width=1024)
Pakuni
One thing I am very confident about is that you would be very hard pressed to find a better dressed scooper than 4ever. Doc has big time style.
Quote from: Goose on June 20, 2024, 10:50:58 AM
Pakuni
One thing I am very confident about is that you would be very hard pressed to find a better dressed scooper than 4ever. Doc has big time style.
Well, yeah. That's obvious from the photo.
Quote from: Goose on June 20, 2024, 10:50:58 AM
Pakuni
One thing I am very confident about is that you would be very hard pressed to find a better dressed scooper than 4ever. Doc has big time style.
There's nothing quite as stylish as scrubs.
You guys are fookin' hilarious. I'm gonna say the light is green. C'mon now, in unison, y'all instinctively shout, "its red," hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 20, 2024, 11:13:09 AM
You guys are fookin' hilarious. I'm gonna say the light is green. C'mon now, in unison, y'all instinctively shout, "its red," hey?
Lighten up, Doc.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 20, 2024, 10:10:28 AM
Or live closer to your current one.
Hah, my employer keeps relocating the office farther away. We've moved twice since I started and each was further than the last. Closer for him though, hmm.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on June 20, 2024, 01:11:06 PM
Hah, my employer keeps relocating the office farther away. We've moved twice since I started and each was further than the last. Closer for him though, hmm.
I mean, I don't know the timeframe, but it's hard to keep a crack house in the same location too long...
;D
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 20, 2024, 10:38:01 AM
Geez. I actually agree with you that employees who have to commute should get some sort of financial recognition of that time spent. But youre reaction to seeing someone else find a good situation is to lash out and say they should be miserable like me instead of focusing on how you can improve things for yourself and others in your situation.
I probably have come off of full unrestricted WFH a little bit over the past few years, but that's because of some challenging experiences training people and getting appropriate focus over a teams call.
As someone who was full remote for like 6 years before it blew up in Covid, I have very distinct things I do better in an office that doesn't have the distractions of my home (ie doing chores and such). However if I'm going to be on calls for 6 hours in a day, why go to my office and distract people?
I think anyone fully against remote for fully computer based jobs are usually just upset that there can't be overbearing supervision. I think of my old boss who made it clear I needed to log at minimum 45 salaried hours in a week and if I had an appointment to make it up. Currently, I work 55 hours one week, and sign off at 3 on other days because things can wait. It's a role based on making sure things are done on time, if it takes less then great! It is a company that has embraced that global economies have made standard hours a much less important thing. (I am also insanely productive at like 10 pm for whatever reason)
I worked from home for a few months during COVID and worked fully remotely when I moved out of Milwaukee for a few months. I got stir crazy with both, and am happy to be in the office 5 days a week.
Is there a closer McDonald's u could transfer to?
WFH 2x / week. Love it.
Office 3x / week. Light to normal traffic 26-28 mins each way. Tough traffic 35-40.
Until 2 years ago, lived 2 blocks from office. If I timed the lights wrong, could be looking at a max of 4 min commute.
Quote from: Goose on June 20, 2024, 09:40:58 AM
Commutes were better listening to Rush on the radio.
Geddy Lee certain had a remarkable voice
I'm in the office 5 days / week. We're 100% in bc some staff cannot do their jobs remote so for moral we all come in. I totally understand WFH but for us being around each, the collaboration etc, it makes sense.
My commute is about 15 minutes. WFB to MKE. It's longer on the way home bc 'Topper charges a toll to return.
While I would not mind more windshield time to get deeper into a podcast, I like knowing that if I forgot my laptop or lunch, my non rush hour trip home is 10 minutes.
Quote from: The Lens on June 20, 2024, 03:21:03 PM
I'm in the office 5 days / week. We're 100% in bc some staff cannot do their jobs remote so for moral we all come in.
I can understand doing it for
morale, but it sure it's an exercise of morality.
We allow WFH up to two days a week. I rarely use it except on summer Fridays when we close at noon.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 20, 2024, 03:31:45 PM
I can understand doing it for morale, but it sure it's an exercise of morality.
He meant these:
(https://i0.wp.com/www.thegreatmorel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/m11weeds-1.jpg?w=432&ssl=1)
Depends can walk two blocks to the blue line for a 45min commute or bike a mile to green line and it'll take 35min. Usually blue in winter green in summer.
25min there, 35min home. In the office 5 days/week and I love it. We all suffer together! :P
My office is my Lincoln
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 20, 2024, 10:38:01 AM
Geez. I actually agree with you that employees who have to commute should get some sort of financial recognition of that time spent. But youre reaction to seeing someone else find a good situation is to lash out and say they should be miserable like me instead of focusing on how you can improve things for yourself and others in your situation.
Pretty common reaction.
"If I've had to suffer, everyone should."
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 20, 2024, 10:09:32 AM
You better get used it. WFH saves everyone time and money, and productivity isn't impacted.
Productivity isn't impacted? Weren't there lots of studies and articles after the pandemic ended that demonstrated WFH was less productive than in-office work?
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 20, 2024, 06:53:26 PM
Productivity isn't impacted? Weren't there lots of studies and articles after the pandemic ended that demonstrated WFH was less productive than in-office work?
The results of studies, looking back, have been widely mixed whether teleworking is a productivity boost or hindrance.
https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2024/01/does-working-from-home-boost-productivity-growth/
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 20, 2024, 06:42:45 PM
My office is my Lincoln
The Lincoln Lawyer of MUScoip
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2024, 02:40:53 PM
I worked from home for a few months during COVID and worked fully remotely when I moved out of Milwaukee for a few months. I got stir crazy with both, and am happy to be in the office 5 days a week.
Agreed wades.
My unsolicited opinion is that full WFH doesn't work long term. You can take a snapshot that is even a few years long, and productivity may not dip very much. But imo you can't effectively train, teach, and mentor remotely, and skills development and work satisfaction craters if businesses go fully remote through hiring cycles. A lot of professions have cut the margins on their employees' time so thin that there are crises of mentorship as it is, and expecting 20-somethings to develop a professional career (and in many cases the connecctions to develop a book of business) fully remotely isn't going to end well.
My commute was a little more than 3 miles but my company split and the local office where I worked was sold off, but I remained with the company. So now it is just downstairs, as the closest facility is 2.5 hours away.
I am one who liked going in the office, especially since my commute was less than 10 minutes.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQrX_cGW8AA5Lwo?format=jpg&name=small)
The climate control at my home is way better than the office. Plus I can wear gym shorts and a t-shirt and just throw on a nicer shirt when a Zoom pops up.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 03:12:21 PM
The climate control at my home is way better than the office. Plus I can wear gym shorts and a t-shirt and just throw on a nicer shirt when a Zoom pops up.
Anyone who would be forced to be anywhere near you at the office is undoubtedly grateful that you're in your basement in your underwear.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2024, 03:40:13 PM
Anyone who would be forced to be anywhere near you at the office is undoubtedly grateful that you're in your basement in your underwear.
Close. I don't have a basement.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 03:12:21 PM
The climate control at my home is way better than the office. Plus I can wear gym shorts and a t-shirt and just throw on a nicer shirt when a Zoom pops up.
Me too but the meme made me laugh regardless
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2024, 03:40:13 PM
Anyone who would be forced to be anywhere near you at the office is undoubtedly grateful that you're in your basement in your underwear.
Give up caffeine again Lenny?
If I hadn't retired, there is no way I would have come back to the office 5 days a week, because I certainly proved that I didn't need to be in the office to do my job.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 20, 2024, 10:38:01 AM
Geez. I actually agree with you that employees who have to commute should get some sort of financial recognition of that time spent. But youre reaction to seeing someone else find a good situation is to lash out and say they should be miserable like me instead of focusing on how you can improve things for yourself and others in your situation.
I was going to reply to this more fully, but that's an awful lot of dot connecting there, my dude.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 20, 2024, 10:00:16 AM
Get a better job
I get paid very well to do science all day. My job is great.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 24, 2024, 11:22:33 AM
I get paid very well to do science all day. My job is great.
Then why do you care about people working from home?
15 minute walk
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2024, 11:49:20 AM
Then why do you care about people working from home?
Science and effective drug development involve collaboration. Which means being present and discussing data in a room...meetings held over Teams often means that people are multi-tasking and not really paying attention (analyzing data, even working in the lab with a headset on--unproductive and unsafe, or dicking around on the internet). Many great ideas come from 5 minute random encounters in a hallway with other scientists. Group leaders who are not around because they are working from home (but really grilling with their neighbors at noon on a Tuesday) means that development of junior scientists is stalled because they need managers to be available during the day to answer questions and help with experimental design or with communicating data effectively....this also means that others onsite have to step in to help those folks when it is not the job they are being paid to do. Someone else is and they are grilling and day-drinking with their neighbors, putting in fence posts, etc. WFH might work well in other business functions, but in science/drug development/discovery/clinical work it's a complete dud.
So, from what I have seen, WFH is less productive and more work for people onsite without proper compensation for the added work.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 24, 2024, 12:26:10 PM
Science and effective drug development involve collaboration. Which means being present and discussing data in a room...meetings held over Teams often means that people are multi-tasking and not really paying attention (analyzing data, even working in the lab with a headset on--unproductive and unsafe, or dicking around on the internet). Many great ideas come from 5 minute random encounters in a hallway with other scientists. Group leaders who are not around because they are working from home (but really grilling with their neighbors at noon on a Tuesday) means that development of junior scientists is stalled because they need managers to be available during the day to answer questions and help with experimental design or with communicating data effectively....this also means that others onsite have to step in to help those folks when it is not the job they are being paid to do. Someone else is and they are grilling and day-drinking with their neighbors, putting in fence posts, etc. WFH might work well in other business functions, but in science/drug development/discovery/clinical work it's a complete dud.
So, from what I have seen, WFH is less productive and more work for people onsite without proper compensation for the added work.
Work for a different company. It doesn't sound like you really are happy at your job
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 24, 2024, 12:26:10 PM
So, from what I have seen, WFH is less productive and more work for people onsite without proper compensation for the added work.
I believe studies show that people who work from home work more hours, since they're rolling some/of their commute time into work. So, not really sure working from the office means "added work."
Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2024, 01:09:25 PM
I believe studies show that people who work from home work more hours, since they're rolling some/of their commute time into work. So, not really sure working from the office means "added work."
I truly think it depends on the employee. Supervisors generally know who they can trust and who they think are slacking.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 24, 2024, 12:26:10 PM
Science and effective drug development involve collaboration. Which means being present and discussing data in a room...meetings held over Teams often means that people are multi-tasking and not really paying attention (analyzing data, even working in the lab with a headset on--unproductive and unsafe, or dicking around on the internet). Many great ideas come from 5 minute random encounters in a hallway with other scientists. Group leaders who are not around because they are working from home (but really grilling with their neighbors at noon on a Tuesday) means that development of junior scientists is stalled because they need managers to be available during the day to answer questions and help with experimental design or with communicating data effectively....this also means that others onsite have to step in to help those folks when it is not the job they are being paid to do. Someone else is and they are grilling and day-drinking with their neighbors, putting in fence posts, etc. WFH might work well in other business functions, but in science/drug development/discovery/clinical work it's a complete dud.
So, from what I have seen, WFH is less productive and more work for people onsite without proper compensation for the added work.
While there are some things that may not be ideal with WFH, it sounds like the biggest issues are hiring and project management issues.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 24, 2024, 01:17:58 PM
I truly think it depends on the employee. Supervisors generally know who they can trust and who they think are slacking.
Can confirm.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2024, 01:09:25 PM
I believe studies show that people who work from home work more hours, since they're rolling some/of their commute time into work. So, not really sure working from the office means "added work."
Yes, this is probably true in many cases.
However, I was explicitly referencing how in my experience, this does not work in a scientific setting. Science happens in teams and teams work together when their leaders can guide them in person. Shaka leading basketball practices over Teams from his home or entrusting his captains to run practices the he outlines for them won't work as well as if he is in the gym that the team is working in.
For example, I watched as the leader of an assay lab (consisting entirely of junior scientists who don't have PhDs), whose job it is to be there to support those scientists and help with experimental design, who, prior to COVID, was available in his office most of the time to field questions, decided was going to WFH after COVID. Not only was he inaccessible onsite but he was impossible to reach when he was at home...his scientists became very frustrated at the lack of leadership he was providign and had to turn to our group and other groups for support...Not only did WFH result in diminished productivity of his group, but it impacted other groups (like mine).
As I said, probably works great for a lot of business functions but there are other situations where WFH detracts from profuctivity.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 24, 2024, 01:46:55 PM
While there are some things that may not be ideal with WFH, it sounds like the biggest issues are hiring and project management issues.
Yeah, that's probably correct.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 24, 2024, 01:46:55 PM
While there are some things that may not be ideal with WFH, it sounds like the biggest issues are hiring and project management issues.
At some companies it's hard to fire people. Those companies suffer from WFH. At early stage companies I can let people go nearly immediately which helps a lot.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 24, 2024, 01:17:58 PM
I truly think it depends on the employee. Supervisors generally know who they can trust and who they think are slacking.
Exactly, which is why the one size fits all takes on the debate are so silly. Ive spoken in favor of flexible hybrid arrangements, and I think it really depends on the employee.
I'm not a grumbly old boomer, but as a manager I definitely would feel far more comfortable with a WFH employee later in their career with a track record of performance and productivity. Which is why its amusing to see/hear so many 20 somethings stating how they would only WFH or they are SO MUCH MORE productive at home, which is a red flag for me unless it was specifically a stated remote gig.
If anyone has seen any such studies (not sure if they even exist), but I would love to see any research on 22-34 year olds viewpoints on WFH overlaid with ambition/desired career progression/etc... I feel like there is a lot of overlap with the pure WFH demands (I deserve my time, etc...) and the "I work to live not the other way around, I don't want to dedicate my life to my job". Not that it means they are slackers or entirely devoid of passion, but it seems to counter a lot of the "grind in my 20s and early 30s for later success/comfort" mindset I saw a lot in my peer and associate groups that are now 35-45.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 24, 2024, 02:04:38 PM
If anyone has seen any such studies (not sure if they even exist), but I would love to see any research on 22-34 year olds viewpoints on WFH overlaid with ambition/desired career progression/etc... I feel like there is a lot of overlap with the pure WFH demands (I deserve my time, etc...) and the "I work to live not the other way around, I don't want to dedicate my life to my job". Not that it means they are slackers or entirely devoid of passion, but it seems to counter a lot of the "grind in my 20s and early 30s for later success/comfort" mindset I saw a lot in my peer and associate groups that are now 35-45.
Brother JWags:
I get really nervous when most of my junior staff is WFH. Yeah, it makes their life easier. They don't have to look presentable. Their dog doesn't have to go to doggie daycare. No commute and day-to-day expenses are far less. But it drives me up the wall.
I have four 20-somethings working for me. Most of them want my job, the sooner I get out of their way, the better. Their idea of corporate culture is something found at the bottom of a yogurt container. It's not about the collective good. It's about how far and fast we can pull them up the ladder.
I'll admit this is the smartest, best educated, most technologically gift generation the world has ever seen. Over the course of their lives, they will, as a generation, do very great things. The world will be a much better place for it. But having a degree and a good head on your shoulders doesn't mean you're an immediate candidate for leadership. That comes with seasoning, getting to know and interact with people and learning how to talk to both friends and strangers.
THAT BEGINS AT WORK!!!!!!!
In today's workplace, we have to interact with diverse people. We have to learn how to deal with diverse problems and, frankly, how to ask for help. What WFHers are missing is interaction with their boss, talking to colleagues and learning how to team to solve a problem. How do they expect to be promoted when their supervisors don't know them? If they're not interacting with people in person, their own prejudices, beliefs and feelings take over and that's not good. Being in an office forces one to confront situations that otherwise one would ignore.
My fear is some 20-something is going to believe that they can solve for their lack of experience with AI. In the process, they'll end up blowing up their world -- if not THE world!
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 24, 2024, 02:48:19 PM
Brother JWags:
I get really nervous when most of my junior staff is WFH. Yeah, it makes their life easier. They don't have to look presentable. Their dog doesn't have to go to doggie daycare. No commute and day-to-day expenses are far less. But it drives me up the wall.
I have four 20-somethings working for me. Most of them want my job, the sooner I get out of their way, the better. Their idea of corporate culture is something found at the bottom of a yogurt container. It's not about the collective good. It's about how far and fast we can pull them up the ladder.
I'll admit this is the smartest, best educated, most technologically gift generation the world has ever seen. Over the course of their lives, they will, as a generation, do very great things. The world will be a much better place for it. But having a degree and a good head on your shoulders doesn't mean you're an immediate candidate for leadership. That comes with seasoning, getting to know and interact with people and learning how to talk to both friends and strangers.
THAT BEGINS AT WORK!!!!!!!
In today's workplace, we have to interact with diverse people. We have to learn how to deal with diverse problems and, frankly, how to ask for help. What WFHers are missing is interaction with their boss, talking to colleagues and learning how to team to solve a problem. How do they expect to be promoted when their supervisors don't know them? If they're not interacting with people in person, their own prejudices, beliefs and feelings take over and that's not good. Being in an office forces one to confront situations that otherwise one would ignore.
My fear is some 20-something is going to believe that they can solve for their lack of experience with AI. In the process, they'll end up blowing up their world -- if not THE world!
They can't do much worse than previous generations
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 24, 2024, 02:48:19 PM
Brother JWags:
I get really nervous when most of my junior staff is WFH. Yeah, it makes their life easier. They don't have to look presentable. Their dog doesn't have to go to doggie daycare. No commute and day-to-day expenses are far less. But it drives me up the wall.
I have four 20-somethings working for me. Most of them want my job, the sooner I get out of their way, the better. Their idea of corporate culture is something found at the bottom of a yogurt container. It's not about the collective good. It's about how far and fast we can pull them up the ladder.
I'll admit this is the smartest, best educated, most technologically gift generation the world has ever seen. Over the course of their lives, they will, as a generation, do very great things. The world will be a much better place for it. But having a degree and a good head on your shoulders doesn't mean you're an immediate candidate for leadership. That comes with seasoning, getting to know and interact with people and learning how to talk to both friends and strangers.
THAT BEGINS AT WORK!!!!!!!
In today's workplace, we have to interact with diverse people. We have to learn how to deal with diverse problems and, frankly, how to ask for help. What WFHers are missing is interaction with their boss, talking to colleagues and learning how to team to solve a problem. How do they expect to be promoted when their supervisors don't know them? If they're not interacting with people in person, their own prejudices, beliefs and feelings take over and that's not good. Being in an office forces one to confront situations that otherwise one would ignore.
My fear is some 20-something is going to believe that they can solve for their lack of experience with AI. In the process, they'll end up blowing up their world -- if not THE world!
Why oh why is a generation that watched their parents treated as the ultimate fungible resource - mass layoffs, downsizing, pension raiding, offshoring, wage stagnation, etc. - not more loyal to their corporate overlords and the collective good?
It's a real head-scratcher.
Mine is about 15 minutes when there's no traffic (weekends), 20-22 minutes in rush hour, and 45 minutes when I have to drive to Cudahy first to drop the kid at daycare. Return is usually 15-20, again depending on weekend or weekday.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2024, 03:23:57 PM
Why oh why is a generation that watched their parents treated as the ultimate fungible resource - mass layoffs, downsizing, pension raiding, offshoring, wage stagnation, etc. - not more loyal to their corporate overlords and the collective good?
It's a real head-scratcher.
I'm part of that generation and I get what you are saying.
But here's the difference: Sooner or later, you build your skills so you add value. You develop streams of revenue ad you know what's profitable and what isn't. You find people who can mentor you and sponsor you for the next step in an organization.
Sometimes, the process takes a few years. Sometimes, a few decades and through several employers. I won't say how many employers I've had, but it's mroe than you think. You dust yourself off when things don't work, figure out why and move on.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 24, 2024, 01:57:39 PM
this does not work in a scientific setting
[clip]
the leader of an assay lab [clip] Not only was he inaccessible onsite but he was impossible to reach when he was at home...his scientists became very frustrated at the lack of leadership
[clip]
profuctivity.
You had a bad (WFH) leader. I work mostly R&D with a few other people. Mostly WFH. We're all available to bounce ideas off of during work hours, and it works great.
But I am going to start using "profuctivity".
Agree with you (and others) that newer employees can often need on-site mentoring.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 24, 2024, 06:37:43 PM
But I am going to start using "profuctivity".
Ope, buying reading glasses would be admitting there is a problem...
Quote from: jutaw22mu on June 24, 2024, 11:21:49 AM
I was going to reply to this more fully, but that's an awful lot of dot connecting there, my dude.
I was reacting to your blanket statement that WFH should be scrapped altogether. In your subsequent posts you've made it clear that you were speaking about your own specific situation, not all
I see a lot of comments about WFH not collaborating or knowing their team. I'm one of two fully remote employees in a team of 35ish fully in the office employees. I manage 7 a group of seven. I'm in near constant contact with the rest of the team and I would say i know most of them pretty well. Silly example but i recently won a team trivia where everyone submitted fun facts about themselves and we had to match the fact to the coworker. As a positive from WFH, there is always some pretty drama about office assignments, break room cleanliness, and other office annoyances that I'm insulated from.
Yes, it's easy to fall into certain traps if youre WFH but that doesn't mean you have to. I'm more connected and more productive now then I ever was at the office. Won't be that way for everyone but theres a reason only sith deal in absolutes.
And Brother Dgies, we don't want you to die, just retire already ;D
" i recently won a team trivia where everyone submitted fun facts about themselves and we had to match the fact to the coworker
I think that was an episode on "The Office"
Work from Office is so much easier as a leader, I certainly understand some of the pull for that... My current team is 12 nationalities based in 7 different countries across 6 time zones. It's more like "'work from anywhere" or "work from everywhere" than work from home. It doesn't matter where people are... as long as they spend enough time with customers and at our offices to make the connections required for their functions, the rest of the time they are "anywhere". One guy who has a WFH contract actually rents office space because he cannot work with home distractions.
As a leader in such case, 8-10 hours a day are spent just connecting with people by phone and in meetings to provide the support that would be just a casual conversation if in the office. The money the company saves by having people "anywhere" and just traveling, vs. relocating them (and families) and providing an office, however, is substantial.
As for the commute: Drive 3.5 hours to ORD, fly somewhere for 10-20 hours, work, return.
19 minute commute like clockwork unless I run in to a train or school bus(who doesn't love a yellow school bus ;D) working from home doesn't seem to pay the bills