What's our top 7? Ty.
I won't go back as far as some, but here would be mine off the top of my head:
PG - Dominic James, elite man defender, understood team defense, amazing athlete and defender at his size
SG - Dwyane Wade, insanely disruptive, the best 6'3" shot blocker in basketball history, covered a ton of defensive deficiencies on the F4 team
SF - Jimmy Butler, used his length well, consistently great defender, his lockdown of Tu Holloway was the stuff of legends
PF - Jae Crowder, much of this is his sheer will on the defensive end, I'm not sure anyone ever played harder than Jae did
C - Jim McIlvaine, the only DPOY in Marquette history
B1 - Stevie Mitchell, can guard anyone on the perimeter and has an endless motor, hand is always on the ball, tenacious
B2 - Oso Ighodaro, he might actually be the best individual defender on this list, but I'm not starting him over our DPOY, the best center Marquette has had since Mac
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 18, 2024, 06:38:43 PM
I won't go back as far as some, but here would be mine off the top of my head:
PG - Dominic James, elite man defender, understood team defense, amazing athlete and defender at his size
SG - Dwyane Wade, insanely disruptive, the best 6'3" shot blocker in basketball history, covered a ton of defensive deficiencies on the F4 team
SF - Jimmy Butler, used his length well, consistently great defender, his lockdown of Tu Holloway was the stuff of legends
PF - Jae Crowder, much of this is his sheer will on the defensive end, I'm not sure anyone ever played harder than Jae did
C - Jim McIlvaine, the only DPOY in Marquette history
B1 - Stevie Mitchell, can guard anyone on the perimeter and has an endless motor, hand is always on the ball, tenacious
B2 - Oso Ighodaro, he might actually be the best individual defender on this list, but I'm not starting him over our DPOY, the best center Marquette has had since Mac
Sounds right to me. B3 Derrick Wilson. Just to get Ners fired up.
Rowsey
Katin
Avante
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 18, 2024, 06:38:43 PM
I won't go back as far as some, but here would be mine off the top of my head:
PG - Dominic James, elite man defender, understood team defense, amazing athlete and defender at his size
SG - Dwyane Wade, insanely disruptive, the best 6'3" shot blocker in basketball history, covered a ton of defensive deficiencies on the F4 team
SF - Jimmy Butler, used his length well, consistently great defender, his lockdown of Tu Holloway was the stuff of legends
PF - Jae Crowder, much of this is his sheer will on the defensive end, I'm not sure anyone ever played harder than Jae did
C - Jim McIlvaine, the only DPOY in Marquette history
B1 - Stevie Mitchell, can guard anyone on the perimeter and has an endless motor, hand is always on the ball, tenacious
B2 - Oso Ighodaro, he might actually be the best individual defender on this list, but I'm not starting him over our DPOY, the best center Marquette has had since Mac
Going back further.... Mandy Johnson in in 80s was a defensive force at guard. At PF, Bo Ellis was a very good defender. Always remember his battles with Alex English. Bo was looong.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 18, 2024, 08:15:04 PM
Going back further.... Mandy Johnson in in 80s was a defensive force at guard. At PF, Bo Ellis was a very good defender. Always remember his battles with Alex English. Bo was looong.
Yes...Mandy Johnson.
Jerel.
Michael Wilson - still the all-time single season steals record - 89 in 1980-81.
Mandy Johnson is an all time MU defender. While I am not a big Doc fan, he was an excellent defender.
Agree with Nukem, Bo was a very good defender, plus an outstanding rebounder.
Jerel McNeal was Big East Defensive POY
Quote from: marqfan22 on June 18, 2024, 09:29:39 PM
Jerel McNeal was Big East Defensive POY
James was better. IMO James defense on the perimeter allowed McNeal to take the chances his did defensively.
The list starts and ends with Mandy Johnson. The pride of Jersey City!
Quote from: Goose on June 18, 2024, 09:00:58 PM
Mandy Johnson is an all time MU defender. While I am not a big Doc fan, he was an excellent defender.
Agree with Nukem, Bo was a very good defender, plus an outstanding rebounder.
Absolutely Mandy.
Any luv out der for #22 or #34, hey?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 09:31:35 PM
James was better. IMO James defense on the perimeter allowed McNeal to take the chances his did defensively.
James was, and I think there's an argument Wes was as well. Jerel was great at creating turnovers, but gambled a lot and I don't think was as good a man defender as the other two. That's the reason I nodded to Wade, because if I'm going to take someone because of disruption, give me the guy who was also a shot-blocker.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 18, 2024, 06:38:43 PM
I won't go back as far as some, but here would be mine off the top of my head:
PG - Dominic James, elite man defender, understood team defense, amazing athlete and defender at his size
SG - Dwyane Wade, insanely disruptive, the best 6'3" shot blocker in basketball history, covered a ton of defensive deficiencies on the F4 team
SF - Jimmy Butler, used his length well, consistently great defender, his lockdown of Tu Holloway was the stuff of legends
PF - Jae Crowder, much of this is his sheer will on the defensive end, I'm not sure anyone ever played harder than Jae did
C - Jim McIlvaine, the only DPOY in Marquette history
B1 - Stevie Mitchell, can guard anyone on the perimeter and has an endless motor, hand is always on the ball, tenacious
B2 - Oso Ighodaro, he might actually be the best individual defender on this list, but I'm not starting him over our DPOY, the best center Marquette has had since Mac
Love this list, would add Jerel McNeal and Roney Eford to the bench. Agree that James was better, but McNeal was still very good. Eford provided much need agility on a very slow team (McIlvaine, Logtermann, Key, Miller).
Marquette has had lots of good defensive players over the years. Whitehead and Ellis were very good, Mandy Johnson and Michael Wilson were a great defensive backcourt, and there are lots more.
Chones.
I didn't see him at Marquette, but Dean Meminger was an outstanding defensive guard in the NBA. So I have a feeling he was a pretty good defender for the Warriors, too.
Quote from: MU82 on June 19, 2024, 08:01:48 AM
I didn't see him at Marquette, but Dean Meminger was an outstanding defensive guard in the NBA. So I have a feeling he was a pretty good defender for the Warriors, too.
Well, he was guarding janitors and drifters in those days
Defense is over rated. Just score more points.
Quote from: Gato78 on June 19, 2024, 07:52:07 AM
Chones.
Gato,
Did he erase the paint for our opponents?
IMO, James and Mandy are the two best pure defenders in MU history. I put Mandy over James but enjoyed watching James play defense more than watching Mandy. I used to love watching Alvin Robertson play defense in the NBA and James brought similar excitement to defense for me.
Lucas?
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 18, 2024, 08:15:04 PM
Going back further.... Mandy Johnson in in 80s was a defensive force at guard.
Except when he was covering David Rivers.
Wes Matthews was an outstanding defender. DJ was as well. Michael Wilson was a better defender than Mandy. Butler developed into a great defender but he was brutal on D his first season. Tony Miller was also a really good defender but probably not as good as DJ. OMax and Stevie are up there as well.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on June 19, 2024, 11:34:00 AM
Wes Matthews was an outstanding defender. DJ was as well. Michael Wilson was a better defender than Mandy. Butler developed into a great defender but he was brutal on D his first season. Tony Miller was also a really good defender but probably not as good as DJ. OMax and Stevie are up there as well.
MNdy was definitely better overall, tough Michael was certainly no slouch.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 19, 2024, 11:35:33 AM
MNdy was definitely better overall, tough Michael was certainly no slouch.
We'll have to agree to disagree. It's obviously a matter of opinion. I prefer Wilson because he was 6'3" (Mandy was 5'10"), was actually more athletic, and could defend almost any position.
Quote from: MU82 on June 19, 2024, 08:01:48 AM
I didn't see him at Marquette, but Dean Meminger was an outstanding defensive guard in the NBA. So I have a feeling he was a pretty good defender for the Warriors, too.
82, he was an excellent defender - he had Austin Carr (no. 1 overall nba pick)
talking to himself.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on June 19, 2024, 12:33:49 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree. It's obviously a matter of opinion. I prefer Wilson because he was 6'3" (Mandy was 5'10"), was actually more athletic, and could defend almost any position.
It's difficult to quantify defensive contributions, especially pre-1995. All we really have are steals and blocked shots totals, plus our own memories. In my mind, Wilson was the superior defender. His 268 career steals stood as the school record for 27 years until Jerel broke it...Mandy Johnson had 233 steals with three more career games played. When it comes to blocked shots, Wilson had 118 compared to Johnson's 19, so not even close. I believe that Wilson is the only player in "school history" (since the stats have been kept) with 200+ steals and 100+ blocked shots.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on June 19, 2024, 05:58:24 PM
82, he was an excellent defender - he had Austin Carr (no. 1 overall nba pick)
talking to himself.
Thanks for the first-hand report. I don't doubt that's true; the Knicks were my favorite team as a kid and I really liked Meminger because he could defend like nobody's business.
Chucky
Your comments and stats on Wilson are fair and hard to argue. My comments on Mandy and James are based off of style I guess. IMO, they both played perfect textbook defense.
A not great comparison, but that is like saying Tony Miller was a better passer than Kolek because he had more assists. I guess that data would prove that correct, but I think most who watched both would disagree.
Al liked Bill Neary.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 19, 2024, 08:17:58 PM
And Markus.
Markus was not an elite defender but he was fine, especially for his size. Comparing him to Rowdy who may without hyperbole be the worst defender in MU history is unfair.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 20, 2024, 12:44:51 AM
Markus was not an elite defender but he was fine, especially for his size. Comparing him to Rowdy who may without hyperbole be the worst defender in MU history is unfair.
Yep. Markus at least tried. He'd put his body in front of a defender and take a charge, he'd anticipate passes and get a steal, he was willing to defend.
Rowsey was allergic to playing defense. A few times, he simply stepped out of the way. Rowsey sure was a fun offensive player, though.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 19, 2024, 08:17:58 PM
And Markus.
Markus made an effort and improved throughout his years at MU; he just didn't have the physical stature to be a plus defender.
Rowsey also didn't have the physical stature to be a plus defender, but his effort mostly consisted of waving at the person as they went past him and then going down court to line up a 25-footer. Loved the guy, but he didn't really have great interest in that end of the court.
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on June 20, 2024, 08:34:57 AM
Markus made an effort and improved throughout his years at MU; he just didn't have the physical stature to be a plus defender.
Rowsey also didn't have the physical stature to be a plus defender, but his effort mostly consisted of waving at the person as they went past him and then going down court to line up a 25-footer. Loved the guy, but he didn't really have great interest in that end of the court.
The Hausers were terrible defenders, too, except for protecting how many shots they got
Love the embellishments and baiting between the Markus haters and the Hauser haters. Good theater.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 20, 2024, 04:12:50 PM
Love the embellishments and baiting between the Markus haters and the Hauser haters. Good theater.
Was thinking the same myself.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 20, 2024, 04:12:50 PM
Love the embellishments and baiting between the Markus haters and the Hauser haters. Good theater.
Spoken like a true Markus hater.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 20, 2024, 04:32:53 PM
Was thinking the same myself.
Spoken like a true Hauser hater.
(Or vice versa.)
Quote from: MU82 on June 20, 2024, 06:29:12 PM
Spoken like a true Markus hater.
Spoken like a true Hauser hater.
(Or vice versa.)
Que?
David Cubillan or Howard as a defender?
Speaking with someone that played against them:
The top defensive guards were Mandy on the point and Michael Wilson on the wing.
Mandy was close to a shutdown player as I've seen. Back in the day, if Mandy held the opposing PG below his scoring average, Mandy was able to choose the place for the weekly team meal. Always choose Red Lobster. The guys got used to a seafood diet.
With his 6-4 frame, Wilson excelled guarding multiple positions.
Runnerup guards are even older school with Dean the Dream and Marcus Washington.
https://ibb.co/KLTkz99
James is the best PG on the ball defender that I've seen at MU. I have too many David Rivers nightmares to give the top spot to Mandy.