Discussion about Ben in the Freshman thread prompting a dedicated thread to him and his likely match-ups this year. Players are from PT's Roster Tracker. Curious to see where Scoop think Ben ranks among his peers.
Patrick McCaffery - Butler
Ryan Kalkbrenner - Creighton
David Skogman - DePaul
Thomas Sorber - Georgetown
Ben Gold - Marquette
Christ Essandoko - Providence
Gus Yalden - Seton Hall
Zuby Ejiofor - St. Johns
Samson Johnson - UConn
Eric Dixon - Villanova
Zach Freemantle - Xavier
I think Kalkbrenner, Dixon, and Freemantle are clearly the top 3 in whatever order you choose. After that, it may just be my gold tinted glasses, but I wouldn't take anyone over Ben.
I could see Ben being the fourth best in that group. I could even see him ahead of Frermantle if he's significantly hampered by his injury (no reason to think he will be).
I do like Johnson and Ejiofors potential though. I think both could end being better than Ben.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 06, 2024, 11:21:40 AM
I could see Ben being the fourth best in that group. I could even see him ahead of Frermantle if he's significantly hampered by his injury (no reason to think he will be).
I do like Johnson and Ejiofors potential though. I think both could end being better than Ben.
I hope you are right TAMU - I am not quite on the Kiwiwagon quite yet. But Benny should have a full summer of dev - which he did not last year due to shin splints.
I would rank Gold 5th. I not sure he is quick enough to cover Samual Johnson.
Until he proves it, he might be 11th, shooting wise first!
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 06:09:00 PM
Until he proves it, he might be 11th, shooting wise first!
Very much on brand for you to have him behind the mid major transfers and true Freshman. Please name the Beast centers, other than the obvious Kalkbrenner, Dixon, and Freemantle, that you think are better than Ben and why you think so. Otherwise I will assume that you're just trolling.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 06:09:00 PM
Until he proves it, he might be 11th, shooting wise first!
😂
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 06:09:00 PM
Until he proves it, he might be 11th, shooting wise first!
Let's see, there are 11 teams with 5 starters on each team. Ipso fatso, Gold is the 55th best starter.
Stevie, Joplin and Ross are 54th, 53rd and 52nd. Kam's in the top 40, though!
Ben is not a center, played power forward as much as Oso's backup. Has shown no center moves what so ever, when I first saw him in a scrimmage at AP, tallest player by far, played as a wing. I hope I am wrong.
Quote from: MU82 on June 06, 2024, 06:26:21 PM
Let's see, there are 11 teams with 5 starters on each team. Ipso fatso, Gold is the 55th best starter.
Stevie, Joplin and Ross are 54th, 53rd and 52nd. Kam's in the top 40, though!
Kam might be the best player in the league, he should be the leading scorer in the Big East next year!
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 06:56:56 PM
Ben is not a center, played power forward as much as Oso's backup. Has shown no center moves what so ever, when I first saw him in a scrimmage at AP, tallest player by far, played as a wing. I hope I am wrong.
We need more people that can finish at the rim and stretch the defense. Ben showed flashes of the latter, later in the year and the former more frequently.
I worry about team defense and rebounding more than I worry about Ben not bringing post moves on offense.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 06:56:56 PM
Ben is not a center, played power forward as much as Oso's backup. Has shown no center moves what so ever, when I first saw him in a scrimmage at AP, tallest player by far, played as a wing. I hope I am wrong.
So you need "center moves" in order to be a center? Ben's the one tipping off, he's the one guarding the other teams center, he's the one the other teams center guards. You may be too stupid to realize it, but that makes him our center. Whether or not he has "center moves" doesn't change that.
You can call me stupid, that's fine, but Ben will have trouble all year guarding centers, fouls to much cause he is not strong enough or quick enough. Reminds me of Brad Lohaus, good shooter weak defender
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 07:18:04 PM
You can call me stupid, that's fine, but Ben will have trouble all year guarding centers, fouls to much cause he is not strong enough or quick enough. Reminds me of Brad Lohaus, good shooter weak defender
lol
Ben Gold was very good this year guarding centers and protecting the rim. His improvement in those areas from his freshman year were huge. Its when he gets switched onto guards where he gets in trouble and picks up a lot of his fouls trying to keep up. He cant move his feet like Oso, but almost no one can, Oso was elite at that. We'll be just fine on defense with him as our starting big.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 07:18:04 PM
You can call me stupid, that's fine, but Ben will have trouble all year guarding centers, fouls to much cause he is not strong enough or quick enough. Reminds me of Brad Lohaus, good shooter weak defender
Its either stupidity or you comment on the message board of a team you dont watch
I guess we can let you decide
Quote from: Its DJOver on June 06, 2024, 06:20:30 PM
Very much on brand for you to have him behind the mid major transfers and true Freshman. Please name the Beast centers, other than the obvious Kalkbrenner, Dixon, and Freemantle, that you think are better than Ben and why you think so. Otherwise I will assume that you're just trolling.
Is Freemantle a center or a forward?
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 06, 2024, 08:20:45 PM
Is Freemantle a center or a forward?
Players are from PT roster tracker. He's the only player in their projected starting lineup over 6'-7".
Plus he has "center moves" so BC considers him one.
What is positionless basketball, Alex?
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 06:56:56 PM
Ben is not a center, played power forward as much as Oso's backup. Has shown no center moves what so ever, when I first saw him in a scrimmage at AP, tallest player by far, played as a wing. I hope I am wrong.
Your basketball thoughts are outdated.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 07, 2024, 07:19:43 AM
Your basketball thoughts are outdated.
That's why this whole argument is stupid. In this offense, Ben isn't being asked to play like Bob Lanier
In this defense, if Gold is playing a lot of true "center" minutes, then they've dramatically changed the defensive system. Marquette's defense is based on turnovers and is pretty good at not fouling.
After a third off-season in this program, I fully expect Ben to understand his defensive assignments
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 07, 2024, 07:30:51 AM
That's why this whole argument is stupid. In this offense, Ben isn't being asked to play like Bob Lanier
In this defense, if Gold is playing a lot of true "center" minutes, then they've dramatically changed the defensive system. Marquette's defense is based on turnovers and is pretty good at not fouling.
After a third off-season in this program, I fully expect Ben to understand his defensive assignments
Agreed. Kalkbrenner will be a problem for Ben on the boards and in the paint...if Ben hits from outside Kalkbrenner will have a hard time guarding him and will have to leave the paint open for MU's guards to attack. I think MU goes as far as their 3 pt shooting takes them next year.
Quote from: avid1010 on June 07, 2024, 08:22:27 AM
Agreed. Kalkbrenner will be a problem for Ben on the boards and in the paint...if Ben hits from outside Kalkbrenner will have a hard time guarding him and will have to leave the paint open for MU's guards to attack. I think MU goes as far as their 3 pt shooting takes them next year.
Ben held up quite well against Kalkbrenner in Omaha when Oso was out. Kalkbrenner did not do much until the last several minutes when the Jays opened things up with hot 3 point shooting.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 07, 2024, 07:30:51 AM
That's why this whole argument is stupid. In this offense, Ben isn't being asked to play like Bob Lanier
In this defense, if Gold is playing a lot of true "center" minutes, then they've dramatically changed the defensive system. Marquette's defense is based on turnovers and is pretty good at not fouling.
After a third off-season in this program, I fully expect Ben to understand his defensive assignments
IIRC he was a good rebounder despite the system too. That said, too lazy to confirm in kenpom--I'll let someone else prove me wrong and tell me I am a terrible person for making such an assumption.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on June 07, 2024, 08:55:49 AM
IIRC he was a good rebounder despite the system too. That said, too lazy to confirm in kenpom--I'll let someone else prove me wrong and tell me I am a terrible person for making such an assumption.
I would say he was an improved rebounder, though his floor for improvement was very low.
As a freshman, he had a DR% of 7.7%. I went back 15 years in the kenpom database and only one other player 6'6" or taller who played 25+% minutes (basically 10 minutes a game or more) had a worse DR% for a season, Brendan Bailey was at 7.5% as a freshman. Considering Ben's height, that is truly awful.
In non-con last year, he was legitimately a plus defensive rebounder at 19.8%. Had he kept that up for the season, it would've been inside the top-250, which is pretty good. However he fell off in Big East play and finished at 15.4%. He ended up outside the top-500 (that's how far kenpom ranks go) and was 20th in strictly Big East play at 15.1%.
I'd probably say he's a fine defensive rebounder, but does have games where he shows flashes of being really good. If he can keep up the consistency that he showed to start last year, he could develop into an asset on that end.
Ultimately, when players start hot in some regard it's easy to remember them like that for a full season. Similar to people who had Newton as the BEPOY favorite well into February despite really cooling off in conference play. I would deem you not a horrible person for this. But I'm just one Scooper, so don't put the cross and nails away just yet.
Quote from: avid1010 on June 07, 2024, 08:22:27 AM
Agreed. Kalkbrenner will be a problem for Ben on the boards and in the paint...if Ben hits from outside Kalkbrenner will have a hard time guarding him and will have to leave the paint open for MU's guards to attack. I think MU goes as far as their 3 pt shooting takes them next year.
Not worried about Kalkbrenner.
Marquette beats Creighton by a few possessions in Omaha if Ben hit a few more of his open 3s. I'm focused on Benny's development and if he does we are in a good spot.
Was a 2 point game with 4 minutes left with no Kolek or Ighodaro.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on June 07, 2024, 10:28:50 AM
Was a 2 point game with 4 minutes left with no Kolek or Ighodaro.
With only 6 players available and 2 of them sick. (Ross and Norman) And Norman puking behind the bench and Ross playing through the flu.
Speaking about Big East centers, nice article about Oso's academic accomplishments at MU:
Oso Ighodaro's award at Marquette really deserves more attention for the path he had to take (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2024/06/07/oso-ighodaro-scholar-award-at-marquette-impressive-given-pandemic/73989072007/)
QuoteAt Marquette, Ighodaro helped lead the Golden Eagles to three NCAA tournament wins in the past two seasons − but he also earned a bachelor's degree in finance and a master's degree in business in just four years.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 07, 2024, 10:40:43 AM
With only 6 players available and 2 of them sick. (Ross and Norman) And Norman puking behind the bench and Ross playing through the flu.
Exactly.
Kalkbrenner is what he is. He's not going to be any different than he's been for the past 4 years.
Ben has a chance to be a real impact 5 in this league if he advances his game.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on June 07, 2024, 12:13:10 PM
Speaking about Big East centers, nice article about Oso's academic accomplishments at MU:
Oso Ighodaro's award at Marquette really deserves more attention for the path he had to take (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2024/06/07/oso-ighodaro-scholar-award-at-marquette-impressive-given-pandemic/73989072007/)
And speaking of Oso ... where would he have ranked on the list of Big East centers had the question been asked in June 2022?
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 06:59:58 PM
Kam might be the best player in the league, he should be the leading scorer in the Big East next year!
This I agree with - hope the marketing department has a Killa Kam BEAST POY campaign ready to go by media day in NYC
Killa Kam making the proclamation that Ben Gold will be the best forward in the BE this season:
https://x.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1799186497138266480?t=4_k-wPDHpo9AtuNGU-GoFQ&s=19
My ranking of Big East centers:
1) Wells Fargo Center
2) CHI Health Center
3) Helfaer Tennis Stadium and Rec Center
4) Prudential Center
5) Cintas Center
6) Ben Gold
Ben dropped on this list because of his smaller size than the others.
Quote from: barfolomew on June 07, 2024, 04:21:49 PM
My ranking of Big East centers:
1) Wells Fargo Center
2) CHI Health Center
3) Helfaer Tennis Stadium and Rec Center
4) Prudential Center
5) Cintas Center
6) Ben Gold
Ben dropped on this list because of his smaller size than the others.
Harsh, Gold is by far the most mobile of them.
Quote from: barfolomew on June 07, 2024, 04:21:49 PM
My ranking of Big East centers:
1) Wells Fargo Center
2) CHI Health Center
3) Helfaer Tennis Stadium and Rec Center
4) Prudential Center
5) Cintas Center
6) Ben Gold
Ben dropped on this list because of his smaller size than the others.
Ben Gold doesn't have a position!
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 07, 2024, 08:49:26 AM
Ben held up quite well against Kalkbrenner in Omaha when Oso was out. Kalkbrenner did not do much until the last several minutes when the Jays opened things up with hot 3 point shooting.
Kalkbrenner scored 19 points on 9-12 shooting for the game. That included 10 in the first half and only 2 in the final 8 minutes during Creighton's run.
There are a lot of reasons why the game was close for the first 32 minutes. Ben Gold limiting Kalkbrenner wasn't one of them.