Not counting Clark, who is expecting to redshirt, but would anyone care to take a guess on the minutes per game for the other freshmen? Either one have a chance to start?
Shaka has shown that freshman do not start and there is a progression each year. If I had to guess - 6-8 min a game for each Parham and Owens based upon history.
I would guess Owens plays more than Parham. This sounds painfully obvious, but it really depends on how good they are and how much other players progress.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 10:52:53 AM
I would guess Owens plays more than Parham. This sounds painfully obvious, but it really depends on how good they are and how much other players progress.
In one of Shaka's radio shows last year, he mentioned that both Owens and Parham have a long way to go on the defensive end before they can earn playing time. That is what will hold them back from seeing the court as Shaka is extremely high on the offensive game they both have and even went as far to call Parham "A scoring savant".
I'm worried it has less to do with defensive ability and just Shaka's disinclination to play freshman a lot. Lowery was our second best defender last year and Shaka still played him less than he deserved.
Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on June 03, 2024, 11:01:43 AM
I'm worried it has less to do with defensive ability and just Shaka's disinclination to play freshman a lot. Lowery was our second best defender last year and Shaka still played him less than he deserved.
He was a good on-ball defender at times, but he got lost a lot. Calling him the "second best defender" is a pretty big stretch IMO. I think Stevie and Chase were clearly better, and Joplin was probably better in rotations as well.
The freshman didn't play a lot last year because we returned all but 1 contributor from a 2 seed.
I think both freshman get 10-15 mpg this year.
Yeah, Chase Ross played 16 mpg as a freshman. Let's not go too deep into the "Shaka doesn't like to play freshman" rabbit hole.
Kam and Stevie also had very defined roles as freshman even if in the case of Stevie it wasn't a ton of minutes
Owens and Parham both can get minutes if they are good enough.
We know our top 5. Anything after that can be earned
We have depth. Shaka can play many different line ups and ask them to Olay aggressively, because of the talent and depth. It'll be fun to watch.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on June 03, 2024, 12:07:54 PM
Shaka can play many different line ups and ask them to Olay aggressively
Useful if we play South Florida.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbzN4OGNuMXVsdzY4dndxenZpcGk1cHI0N2Y1bHN4aGllNWprY284cyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/9VnK2SUebgetTc9X7B/giphy.gif)
Quote from: barfolomew on June 03, 2024, 12:30:51 PM
Useful if we play South Florida.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbzN4OGNuMXVsdzY4dndxenZpcGk1cHI0N2Y1bHN4aGllNWprY284cyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/9VnK2SUebgetTc9X7B/giphy.gif)
I thought Olay-ing aggressively meant that they would have well moisturized skin.
Shaka said similar about Parham and Owens a couple of months ago. Called them offensive savant. Said they needed to go to work on defense as soon as they get to campus. So, IMO, their playing time, just as it was under Buzz, will be dictated by how quickly they learn to play defense to Shaka's standards. Also, IMO, Owens gets there first.
More impotently, what nicknames will Willie derisively call them and then say you're the bad fan for supporting them?
If we are talking about impotently then maybe some play on Viagra or Cialis?
Quote from: The Thing on June 03, 2024, 02:00:01 PM
If we are talking about impotently then maybe some play on Viagra or Cialis?
Willie loves talking penis and anus
Sub-Parham
Demesstrious
Not up to Willie's standards I'm sure
Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on June 03, 2024, 11:01:43 AM
I'm worried it has less to do with defensive ability and just Shaka's disinclination to play freshman a lot. Lowery was our second best defender last year and Shaka still played him less than he deserved.
Were we watching the same game?
I think Hamilton probably gets consistent minutes. 10-12.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on June 03, 2024, 02:19:20 PM
Were we watching the same game?
I don't know. Maybe you weren't paying attention?
https://painttouches.com/2024/01/19/amid-injuries-zaide-lowery-carves-out-defensive-role/
Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on June 03, 2024, 04:16:38 PM
I don't know. Maybe you weren't paying attention?
https://painttouches.com/2024/01/19/amid-injuries-zaide-lowery-carves-out-defensive-role/
That was from mid-January.
As I said, he had some really good moments when he had to straight up guard somebody. But he wasn't their second best defender.
I sense a scoop argument splitting hairs into multiple splices in the offing.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 04:20:06 PM
That was from mid-January.
As I said, he had some really good moments when he had to straight up guard somebody. But he wasn't their second best defender.
Chase / Lowery is a matter of taste. Oso is in the discussion. Then maybe Ben or Tre.
But suggesting Joplin was better defensively than Lowery is downright ignorant.
Who did that?
Quote from: tower912 on June 03, 2024, 04:38:04 PM
Who did that?
Right. I said he was "better in rotations." Team defense.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 04:59:10 PM
Right. I said he was "better in rotations." Team defense.
Whatever. That is still silly.
Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on June 03, 2024, 05:03:05 PM
Whatever. That is still silly.
??? Team defense is "silly?" Odd take.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 05:28:03 PM
Me.
So no quantifiable numbers on feild goal percentage after a rotation, or anything? Just the eye test? You, sir, are no Paint Touches!
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1797758596832465098?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Giddyup. Time to learn the new faces.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 03, 2024, 05:15:25 PM
Source?
According to Evan Miya, while on the floor with the other 4 players:
Zaide allowed 91.6 PPP
Jop allowed 91.4 PPP
Team leader was Oso at 86.7
Team worst was Ben Gold at 95.4
So basically Zaide and Jop were middle of the road defenders according to the numbers.
I'd expect freshman Chase Ross minutes for Owens. Freshman Ben Gold minutes for Parham.
Quote from: MuMark on June 03, 2024, 05:48:45 PM
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1797758596832465098?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Best overall Team Hair MU has had in a long time. Bodes well for the season ahead.
Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on June 03, 2024, 11:01:43 AM
I'm worried it has less to do with defensive ability and just Shaka's disinclination to play freshman a lot. Lowery was our second best defender last year and Shaka still played him less than he deserved.
I'm gonna go out in a limb here and guess that our coach has a plan. It's almost as if there's situations in a game where different strengths work better than other. Idk though, I'm dumb
Mark me down in the poll as being in favor of incoming freshmen.
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2024, 06:14:02 AM
Mark me down in the poll as being in favor of incoming freshmen.
much better than outgoing freshman?
I thought it was a pro/con poll.
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2024, 07:13:02 AM
I thought it was a pro/con poll.
Enough about Trump
I expect this year's freshmen to play more than last year's freshmen did. They may even play more this year vs. the sophomores.
I agree with TAMU on the minutes for the two true freshmen this year. Also agree with bilsu that Owens might get more minutes than the sophomores this year. IMO, we are going to see a more up-tempo, pressure D and will see a lot of guys getting minutes.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 04, 2024, 07:01:57 AM
much better than outgoing freshman?
Outgoing freshmen are sophomores.
Quote from: Goose on June 04, 2024, 09:26:59 AM
I agree with TAMU on the minutes for the two true freshmen this year. Also agree with bilsu that Owens might get more minutes than the sophomores this year. IMO, we are going to see a more up-tempo, pressure D and will see a lot of guys getting minutes.
It's going to be a ton of fun to watch this team come together this season Goose. I see this team in terms of two seasons before they really gel and have a good chance at least a FF if not a natty. If they make me eat my words at the end of this coming season by exceeding my "pretty damn good" expectations, I will love it. Patience! Shaka is a builder, not a one-year "flash in the pan" kind of guy.
Snoop
I have been saying for two years that TK and Oso changed the face of the team and style of play to some degree. IMO, this the first year that most of the team is made of up Shaka type players and I think it is going to be a different type of exciting this year. Looking forward to seeing long, athletic guys on the floor at the same time.
Those Sorinex plates are so damn cool. I would spend an irresponsible amount of money for a set.
Anyone know someone in the program who might be able to pawn em off whenever they inevitably get replaced?
Quote from: Goose on June 04, 2024, 10:56:59 AM
I have been saying for two years that TK and Oso changed the face of the team and style of play to some degree. IMO, this the first year that most of the team is made of up Shaka type players and I think it is going to be a different type of exciting this year. Looking forward to seeing long, athletic guys on the floor at the same time.
It will be interesting on offense to see how they play. Can Ben be an effective rim runner? Will Kam be able to operate the PNR at a decent clip? I think we'll see a ton more iso than we're used to.
Defensively I think they have a chance to be consistently more disruptive than past teams.
fan12
I have my fingers on being disruptive on defense which drives the offense. I think we see less PNR, but not ready to say we can expect more iso. IMO, it is going to look different than the games TK was out last season.
Speaking of TK, I miss him already.
I see different PnR. Pick and pops with Gold and Joplin. The inverted PnR with Gold and a guard. I think Gold is actually more offensively skilled than Oso. This will lead to more options.
Gold sets the high screen for Kam. Chase and Joplin in the corners. They read the defense and Gold flares to the 3 pt line against Kalkbrenner drop coverage. Kalkbrenner or a rotating guard closes. Ben puts it on the floor and now there is 6'11 and 250 going downhill. Who helps? Ben finds the open shooter.
Bottom line is I see opportunities.
Benny's gonna have to make a jump if those opportunities are to come to fruition. So far he's shown flashes of being able to use a ball fake and drive, but it's been almost exclusively pick and pop.
Here's hoping he's ready for it!
Quote from: tower912 on June 04, 2024, 10:12:46 AM
Outgoing freshmen are sophomores.
The best thing about incoming freshmen is that they become freshmen.
Quote from: MUfan12 on June 04, 2024, 11:05:46 AM
It will be interesting on offense to see how they play. Can Ben be an effective rim runner? Will Kam be able to operate the PNR at a decent clip? I think we'll see a ton more iso than we're used to.
Defensively I think they have a chance to be consistently more disruptive than past teams.
The offense will be completely different, IMO. You can't just replace what TyKo and Oso had together.
Quote from: MUfan12 on June 04, 2024, 11:31:44 AM
Benny's gonna have to make a jump if those opportunities are to come to fruition.
Here's hoping he's ready for it!
[/quote
Strongly agree. And a team worst 95 and change ppp on D. I worry about our Kiwi. I think a lot of Scoopers ever-rate him.
If I'm wrong about him I 'll be a happy camper.
MU will need offense from 5 players to be good, watched the X vs MU game last night when Tyler was hurt, Oso and Kam were fantastic. The secondary players offensively were non-existent. Jop was horrible, Chase could not find a shot, and Stevie was Stevie. Without Oso, it will be interesting how the pick and roll will work, Ben is good on the pick and pop but teams will know that, they will need to get some easy baskets. So I expect the 2 frosh to play more then you think and the 2 Sophs have to bring something to the table. The 5th is Gold who I have always questioned since he is not a center. Need a surprise player to step up to have a good season.
Very low expectations for the true Freshman. Starting 5 will be very good. Overall success will be how much quality depth there is, need some combination of Tre, Zaide, Al, and Caedin to be ready to take the next step. If the true Freshman don't look completely lost I'll see it as a win.
Quote from: Its DJOver on June 04, 2024, 12:31:18 PM
Very low expectations for the true Freshman. Starting 5 will be very good. Overall success will be how much quality depth there is, need some combination of Tre, Zaide, Al, and Caedin to be ready to take the next step. If the true Freshman don't look completely lost I'll see it as a win.
I feel like this is going to be the mold for the majority of years. Always need the sophomores to take big jumps, the role players to step into stardom, the freshman to hopefully be contributors on the margins and if any freshman shows up able to do more than that to treat it like pure gravy.
I think Owens who will be the back up that needs to come in and play, as Jop can be really good or as I watched the X game really bad. Surprised watching that game that Tre and Lowery played a lot in the game as Jop was benched. They both did not see the court against NCSt. Interesting
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 04, 2024, 01:17:47 PM
I think Owens who will be the back up that needs to come in and play, as Jop can be really good or as I watched the X game really bad. Surprised watching that game that Tre and Lowery played a lot in the game as Jop was benched. They both did not see the court against NCSt. Interesting
Neither Tre or Zaide play the same position as Jop. The majority of the minutes that Jop lost @X went straight to your favorite player in Ben who had his season high in minutes off the bench, with the only game where he got more run being @CU when Oso was out.
If Jop is struggling this year, right now, I would think Al or Hamilton would be in line to step in before Owens.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2024, 11:25:26 AM
The freshman didn't play a lot last year because we returned all but 1 contributor from a 2 seed.
I think both freshman get 10-15 mpg this year.
That's about where I come down on this.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 04, 2024, 12:21:23 PM
MU will need offense from 5 players to be good, watched the X vs MU game last night when Tyler was hurt, Oso and Kam were fantastic. The secondary players offensively were non-existent. Jop was horrible, Chase could not find a shot, and Stevie was Stevie. Without Oso, it will be interesting how the pick and roll will work, Ben is good on the pick and pop but teams will know that, they will need to get some easy baskets. So I expect the 2 frosh to play more then you think and the 2 Sophs have to bring something to the table. The 5th is Gold who I have always questioned since he is not a center. Need a surprise player to step up to have a good season.
Rewatch the Nova BET game. Don't even have to watch the whole game, just OT. Jop was good, an excellent secondary option for Kam.
Quote from: MUDPT on June 04, 2024, 02:27:07 PM
Rewatch the Nova BET game. Don't even have to watch the whole game, just OT. Jop was good, an excellent secondary option for Kam.
Yep, almost like you can't judge players from one game and college athletes will be inconsistent. We start 5 upperclassmen that have all been in Shaka's system their entire collegiate careers. Given that alone, Freshman will likely not have a large role, and that is a good thing, because they will not
need to have a large role.
Joplin had bad games. This isn't news. Expecting that to be the norm his senior year, or that he won't continue to improve, seems pessimistic to me. I expect 15-17 ppg.
Quote from: jficke13 on June 04, 2024, 11:02:20 AM
Those Sorinex plates are so damn cool. I would spend an irresponsible amount of money for a set.
Anyone know someone in the program who might be able to pawn em off whenever they inevitably get replaced?
U lookin just for 5 & 10 lbs plates right fam
Quote from: tower912 on June 04, 2024, 02:36:08 PM
Joplin had bad games. This isn't news. Expecting that to be the norm his senior year, or that he won't continue to improve, seems pessimistic to me. I expect 15-17 ppg.
I do not think Jop can be consistent enough to score like that, 12 would be more like it with Stevie getting 10 or so, can Chase average double figures as well? All question marks, do not see Ben averaging 10 as he as trouble with fouls.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 04, 2024, 04:07:40 PM
I do not think Jop can be consistent enough to score like that, 12 would be more like it with Stevie getting 10 or so, can Chase average double figures as well? All question marks, do not see Ben averaging 10 as he as trouble with fouls.
The way I see it there will be games where Gold hits 3 or more threes and we will have a good chance of winning. There will be games were Gold hits no threes and we will have a good chance of losing. Gold hitting threes forces the other team to have to cover him on the outside.
I am hoping one of the bigs can play the pick and roll and get some easy baskets!
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1798137204536963097?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Arggh.... LeBron fans. And Josh wanting to be invisible! What was Shaka thinking?!?!?
Quote from: Its DJOver on June 04, 2024, 12:31:18 PM
Very low expectations for the true Freshman. Starting 5 will be very good. Overall success will be how much quality depth there is, need some combination of Tre, Zaide, Al, and Caedin to be ready to take the next step. If the true Freshman don't look completely lost I'll see it as a win.
Wonder how Marquette became the school where no freshman can ever have an impact?
When they had so many returning and developing upperclassmen. Like Bo used to do.
Quote from: PointWarrior on June 04, 2024, 08:54:12 PM
Wonder how Marquette became the school where no freshman can ever have an impact?
I would rather have very low expectations and be pleasantly surprised by someone like Kam, than expect a day one contribution and then be disappointed if they're not immediately a high impact player. Remember how Vander was treated his Freshman year?
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 04, 2024, 12:21:23 PM
MU will need offense from 5 players to be good, watched the X vs MU game last night when Tyler was hurt, Oso and Kam were fantastic. The secondary players offensively were non-existent. Jop was horrible, Chase could not find a shot, and Stevie was Stevie. Without Oso, it will be interesting how the pick and roll will work, Ben is good on the pick and pop but teams will know that, they will need to get some easy baskets. So I expect the 2 frosh to play more then you think and the 2 Sophs have to bring something to the table. The 5th is Gold who I have always questioned since he is not a center. Need a surprise player to step up to have a good season.
I know what you mean. That X MU game reminded me of when I watched Marquette play St. John's at the end of Shaka's first season. Darryl scored 20. Justin scored 28. Kuath scored 12. Greg Elliot scored 8. They were fantastic. The secondary players were non-existent. OMax had 2 points on 0/3 shooting. Kolek had 0 points. Kam only got 11 minutes because he couldn't defend. Joplin and Steive combined for 12 minutes. Oso was okay I guess with 7 points but he's too small to be a real center.
Clearly, a team anchored by Kolek, OMax, Oso, Kam, Joplin, and Stevie could never be any good.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 04, 2024, 10:13:42 PM
I know what you mean. That X MU game reminded me of when I watched Marquette play St. John's at the end of Shaka's first season. Darryl scored 20. Justin scored 28. Kuath scored 12. Greg Elliot scored 8. They were fantastic. The secondary players were non-existent. OMax had 2 points on 0/3 shooting. Kolek had 0 points. Kam only got 11 minutes because he couldn't defend. Joplin and Steive combined for 12 minutes. Oso was okay I guess with 7 points but he's too small to be a real center.
Clearly, a team anchored by Kolek, OMax, Oso, Kam, Joplin, and Stevie could never be any good.
Yessir. Some Scoopers forget how flawed Kolek was that season, how limited Oso was, how frustrating Kam was, etc. Too many forget that lots and lots of players actually, you know, get better.
So yeah, last season's Tre Norman and Ben Gold and Chase Ross weren't really good enough. But we're not gonna get last season's Tre Norman and Ben Gold and Chase Ross.
One of the fun things about retaining players is that we get to see the yearly progress. I would never dismiss a players ability to improve from season to season. I fully expect to see noticeable improvement from all the guys to varied degrees. That said, I think Ben Gold has a breakout year and will silence a lot critics.
Quote from: Goose on June 05, 2024, 11:01:19 AM
One of the fun things about retaining players is that we get to see the yearly progress. I would never dismiss a players ability to improve from season to season. I fully expect to see noticeable improvement from all the guys to varied degrees. That said, I think Ben Gold has a breakout year and will silence a lot critics.
I am very interested as well to see how Benny does. Our perimeter defense will be borderline elite this year with Chase and Stevie. I can see teams scheming to try and beat us in the post - Benny will have to step up his defense massively for MU to reach it's potential .
Quote from: Goose on June 05, 2024, 11:01:19 AM
One of the fun things about retaining players is that we get to see the yearly progress. I would never dismiss a players ability to improve from season to season. I fully expect to see noticeable improvement from all the guys to varied degrees. That said, I think Ben Gold has a breakout year and will silence a lot critics.
Sadly, we have zero evidence of guys playing here for Shaka getting better.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 05, 2024, 11:23:02 AM
I am very interested as well to see how Benny does. Our perimeter defense will be borderline elite this year with Chase and Stevie. I can see teams scheming to try and beat us in the post - Benny will have to step up his defense massively for MU to reach it's potential .
I hope Hamilton after a year and a half in the program gives them some muscle!
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 04, 2024, 03:39:08 PM
U lookin just for 5 & 10 lbs plates right fam
I'm not greedy, I'd take 'em.
The hardest part would be having to convert on the fly to KG.
Quote from: Goose on June 05, 2024, 11:01:19 AM
One of the fun things about retaining players is that we get to see the yearly progress. I would never dismiss a players ability to improve from season to season. I fully expect to see noticeable improvement from all the guys to varied degrees. That said, I think Ben Gold has a breakout year and will silence a lot critics.
Agreed on Gold and it will mostly be on the mental side where he is ready to take his leap. If he is ready to lead and take control and look to drive to the hoop as much as shooting the three, he will be a huge breakout candidate. Has to have the right mindset to be a star player rather than a role player. I hope he does because MU will be really good if that's the case.
Quote from: Goose on June 05, 2024, 11:01:19 AM
One of the fun things about retaining players is that we get to see the yearly progress. I would never dismiss a players ability to improve from season to season. I fully expect to see noticeable improvement from all the guys to varied degrees. That said, I think Ben Gold has a breakout year and will silence a lot critics.
What haven't you liked about Ben? I think hrs been ahead of Oslo in development. He'll be a key contributor this year and next year.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on June 05, 2024, 05:15:15 PM
What haven't you liked about Ben? I think hrs been ahead of Oslo in development. He'll be a key contributor this year and next year.
Yeah but Copenhagen is ahead of both of them.
Helsinki is pretty strong too.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 05, 2024, 05:27:14 PM
Yeah but Copenhagen is ahead of both of them.
Norway Tower didn't feed you that joke
That is about Oslo as you can go.
Goose hasn't been down on Ben. BCHoopster and NYG have been down on Ben.
Can't a-fjord to make mistakes like that.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 05, 2024, 02:30:27 PM
Agreed on Gold and it will mostly be on the mental side where he is ready to take his leap. If he is ready to lead and take control and look to drive to the hoop as much as shooting the three, he will be a huge breakout candidate. Has to have the right mindset to be a star player rather than a role player. I hope he does because MU will be really good if that's the case.
We don't need Gold to be a "star." We need him to be a good college basketball player, and I'm among those who thinks he will be one.
Not sure how one even defines "star" now. All-American? All-BEast? On NBA Draft boards? I'd take any or all of those from Ben!
If he does become a star - which I'd define as at least being All-BEast - we'll again be legit contenders for a deep March run.
Quote from: tower912 on June 05, 2024, 06:04:42 PM
That is about Oslo as you can go.
Goose hasn't been down on Ben. BCHoopster and NYG have been down on Ben.
Can't a-fjord to make mistakes like that.
Come on Tower, I am not down on Gold, but have brought up some things about his game. Never said Gold sucks, stinks, should transfer, etc. As usual here, if you bring up anything negative aspect about an MU player, you are like branded for life.
- a 6ft 11 guy that can shoot threes, I am all in. But Gold gets hot for three games, then cold for three games. Build on being consistent for each game. 35% was not bad for year.
- I have said he is not a center, but now one has to define the center position. On offense, he can bring the defender away from the rim, but now he is not a rebounder. Gold consistently runs around the three line waiting for the ball to shoot the three and has done so for two years. That all may change with whatever Shaka decides he plays, but playing low will take some offensive adjustments. Defense is the main concern, because he is very slow and tends to foul. His role will be point of discussion early on and see how it works.
Hope it works out position wise for him and produces benefits for team
Ok. I misinterpreted your statements.
Only statement I have ever stated is that he is not a center, but a three point shooting forward and that if put in the center position, he will be placed in a spot where his defense will result in foul issues.
I hope one of the youngsters can play inside so he can continue in the role he has played in the past two years. Will need his scoring to increase from the 5ppg.
Quote from: MU82 on June 05, 2024, 07:19:27 PM
We don't need Gold to be a "star." We need him to be a good college basketball player, and I'm among those who thinks he will be one.
Not sure how one even defines "star" now. All-American? All-BEast? On NBA Draft boards? I'd take any or all of those from Ben!
If he does become a star - which I'd define as at least being All-BEast - we'll again be legit contenders for a deep March run.
I'll agree with your all Big East designation as a star. Good won't cut it. All Big East would. The key is to maintain the level of play from last year if possible. It may not be possible but an all Big East first or second team Ben will get the job done. He has the talent. There can be no mental hesitation. He will be counted on greatly. I keep using Mamu as a comparison. He was ready to take a lead role at Seton Hall his Junior year.
So, you are pessimistic about his defense and his offense. Mea culpa.
I'm sorry about my kindle typo errors. I meant to say that Ben is ahead of Oso based on his play as a second year player. I think he'll be a difference maker this year.
I did not view Gold as a fouling machine last season, and I thought his defense improved markedly both in m-t-m post matchups and as a help defender in the low post.
Oso is an athletic freak. Very few centers can defend quick players on the perimeter, and I don't think it's fair to expect Gold to match what Oso did there. I hope he's not asked to do it too often, but the way we switch it is possible (even probable) that he will be exploited sometimes. As most centers are in those situations.
And we haven't had a center who killed it on the offensive boards in many years. Oso sure didn't. Will Gold? Probably not.
It doesn't matter what position you call Gold. Wasn't Oso called a forward when the starting lineup was introduced each game? He will be our primary post defender during most of his time in games, and he will take a lot of 3s on offense with some occasional drives and post play.
And that's just based on what we've seen from him so far. Maybe he will develop entirely new parts of his game. There isn't a single Scooper who, on June 5 following his sophomore season, said of Oso: "I bet he's gonna be a point center and pick-and-roll savant in a few months."
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on June 05, 2024, 09:14:09 PM
I'm sorry about my kindle typo errors. I meant to say that Ben is ahead of Oso based on his play as a second year player. I think he'll be a difference maker this year.
Don't apologize for that! The replies were a lot of fun. I'm hoping you come up with a couple more like that one. :)
I'm about as bullish as you can be on Damarius Owens and Royce Parham. I think Owens joins Kam Jones and Chase Ross in the first tier of freshmen seasons under Shaka so far.
Not bad to get two starters from the prep school national champions.
Quote from: MU82 on June 05, 2024, 10:04:47 PM
I did not view Gold as a fouling machine last season
Ben Gold had the highest foul rate on the team last season per minutes played. He averaged 1.9 fouls per 17 minutes. Oso averaged 2.1 fouls per 32.5 minutes for comparison.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 05, 2024, 10:56:51 PM
Ben Gold had the highest foul rate on the team last season per minutes played. He averaged 1.9 fouls per 17 minutes. Oso averaged 2.1 fouls per 32.5 minutes for comparison.
Zero foul outs. Those 2, 4 foul games against Clingan and Edey.
It largely isn't a problem.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 05, 2024, 10:56:51 PM
Ben Gold had the highest foul rate on the team last season per minutes played. He averaged 1.9 fouls per 17 minutes. Oso averaged 2.1 fouls per 32.5 minutes for comparison.
Actually Amadou had the highest foul rate on the team with a whopping 9.4 fouls per 40.
Norman was highest of the rotation players at 4.7 per 40.
Ben was third with 4.5 per 40, just ahead of Seans 4.3.
For a big guy, anything under 5 is okay. And as jfp pointed out, 2/4 of his games with 4 fouls were against Edey and Clingan. I don't we see anyone resembling those two monsters this season.
Plenty of room on the kiwimobile. Gonna ride it all the way to the Association
Hamilton might be the most important unknown. We need someone who can back up Gold.
In two seasons, we will be discussing which player will meet the Gold standard.
Quote from: jfp61 on June 05, 2024, 11:34:22 PM
Zero foul outs. Those 2, 4 foul games against Clingan and Edey.
It largely isn't a problem.
He also didn't foul out playing 37 minutes against Kalkbrenner
Gold isn't Oso. Oso was the unicorn who.could guard 5 positions well. Gold showed tremendous improvement in rotations, help, doubles. He could be beaten when switched onto a guard 20 feet from the hoop. Just like Sean could be posted up. And if Clingan/Edey, decided to go straight at/through him, they usually succeeded. He, like most players, continues to be a work in progress.
Offensively, I think he will be Oso with a 3 pt shot. Will move and pass the ball, will get some PnR dunks. But more pick and pop. I just hope he plays confidently and aggressively all of the time.
Quote from: tower912 on June 06, 2024, 05:47:23 AM
Gold isn't Oso. Oso was the unicorn who.could guard 5 positions well. Gold showed tremendous improvement in rotations, help, doubles. He could be beaten when switched onto a guard 20 feet from the hoop. Just like Sean could be posted up. And if Clingan/Edey, decided to go straight at/through him, they usually succeeded. He, like most players, continues to be a work in progress.
Offensively, I think he will be Oso with a 3 pt shot. Will move and pass the ball, will get some PnR dunks. But more pick and pop. I just hope he plays confidently and aggressively all of the time.
Ben's offensive game is completely different from Oso's. In fact, the list of similarities is much shorter than the list of differences save a few PNR dunks.
Ben hangs out at the 3 almost exclusively.
If the defender closes too quickly, he drives for a dunk....not a pull up push shot....not a floater...not a pass. He doesn't post up on the block to look for a cutter. He doesn't bring the ball up to initiate the offense. He doesn't set multiple screens often several times on the same offensive sequence. Maybe this year will be wildly different, but Ben is not Oso with a 3 point shot.
Basically he is a small forward that will have to play center! Oso was twice as quick as well, it will interesting how the offense is run this year because one thing Oso brought to the table were easy at the rim baskets. Gold barely did pick and roll.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 05, 2024, 10:56:51 PM
Ben Gold had the highest foul rate on the team last season per minutes played. He averaged 1.9 fouls per 17 minutes. Oso averaged 2.1 fouls per 32.5 minutes for comparison.
Thanks for those stats.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 05, 2024, 11:48:59 PM
Actually Amadou had the highest foul rate on the team with a whopping 9.4 fouls per 40.
Norman was highest of the rotation players at 4.7 per 40.
Ben was third with 4.5 per 40, just ahead of Seans 4.3.
For a big guy, anything under 5 is okay. And as jfp pointed out, 2/4 of his games with 4 fouls were against Edey and Clingan. I don't we see anyone resembling those two monsters this season.
Plenty of room on the kiwimobile. Gonna ride it all the way to the Association
Thanks for
those stats.
Quote from: MU90620 on June 06, 2024, 05:29:17 AM
He also didn't foul out playing 37 minutes against Kalkbrenner
And thanks for that.
I guess what I was saying is that I don't think fouls are going to be a huge problem for Gold. I guess we'll see soon enough.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 09:31:57 AM
Basically he is a small forward that will have to play center! Oso was twice as quick as well, it will interesting how the offense is run this year because one thing Oso brought to the table were easy at the rim baskets. Gold barely did pick and roll.
A 6'-11", 235 lb small forward?
Ben's skillset both offensively and defensively is different than Oso's. I expect scheme on both ends will be adjusted to reflect that. But he is absolutely a center.
Ben's basically a small guard. Smaller than Sean Jones.
In another comment or two, BCHoopster will be comparing Ben Gold to Peter Dinklage.
Or someone even shorter, like Muggsy.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 05, 2024, 10:56:51 PM
Ben Gold had the highest foul rate on the team last season per minutes played. He averaged 1.9 fouls per 17 minutes. Oso averaged 2.1 fouls per 32.5 minutes for comparison.
Ben Gold fouls per 40 as a Sophomore, 4.5. Oso's fouls per 40 as a Sophomore, 4.4.
When you know you're a back up you can be more aggressive and therefore you pick up more fouls. When you know you're a starter and will need to be available, you are more selective. Look back at Oso's reaction after picking up his second against Purdue, he knew right away that it was a big mistake. Look at how Ben played @CU when he knew there was no real back up.
I don't think Ben will be all conference or anything, but I would guess he's a top third center in the Beast and will be above 25 mpg, while rarely being in foul trouble.
Some people are weirdly obsessed with their narrow definitions of what position a player can play. "Markus Howard isn't a PG! Kam Jones isn't a PG! Ben Gold isn't a C!" Whoop dee doo.
I bet there will be games this season where Ben Gold goes to the bench and Shaka plays 4 guards with Jop. "bUt wHo iS tHe CeNtEr???"
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 06, 2024, 10:14:23 AM
Some people are weirdly obsessed with their narrow definitions of what position a player can play. "Markus Howard isn't a PG! Kam Jones isn't a PG! Ben Gold isn't a C!" Whoop dee doo.
I bet there will be games this season where Ben Gold goes to the bench and Shaka plays 4 guards with Jop. "bUt wHo iS tHe CeNtEr???"
At least it seems we have gotten over people trying to assign the 1-5 position numbers to players.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 06, 2024, 10:17:15 AM
At least it seems we have gotten over people trying to assign the 1-5 position numbers to players.
But each position has a number equivalent, so it's the same thing.
1. PG
2. SG
3. SF
4. PF
5. C
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 06, 2024, 10:14:23 AM
Some people are weirdly obsessed with their narrow definitions of what position a player can play. "Markus Howard isn't a PG! Kam Jones isn't a PG! Ben Gold isn't a C!" Whoop dee doo.
I bet there will be games this season where Ben Gold goes to the bench and Shaka plays 4 guards with Jop. "bUt wHo iS tHe CeNtEr???"
I've never gotten this fascination either. Who guards the opposing teams center? Ben? Great he's our center.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 06, 2024, 10:14:23 AM
Some people are weirdly obsessed with their narrow definitions of what position a player can play. "Markus Howard isn't a PG! Kam Jones isn't a PG! Ben Gold isn't a C!" Whoop dee doo.
I bet there will be games this season where Ben Gold goes to the bench and Shaka plays 4 guards with Jop. "bUt wHo iS tHe CeNtEr???"
In this scenario.....it's gotta be Jop, right? ;)
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2024, 11:37:44 AM
The offense will be completely different, IMO. You can't just replace what TyKo and Oso had together.
Agreed. The game at Creighton provided a hint. Ben allowed them to spread the floor. Driving lanes opened up. IIRC, Jop dunking on Kalk came on a 5-out set. Lots of space to operate. I think Nevada will find the best plan of attack given the talent we have.
Yeah, idk why anyone is worried about scoring under this staff.
They will run a system that works with this personnel and find versatility
It wasn't great at times without TK last year but that was on the fly. This is a full off-season of developing an offense around Kam. That utilizes everyone else a lot more.
Now Ben will be the main big it centers towards rather than Oso.
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1798759790786773314?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Quote from: MuMark on June 06, 2024, 12:01:59 PM
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1798759790786773314?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Clark's sequence on Kam got me a chub. Wow - he's def long and athletic.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 06, 2024, 12:07:13 PM
Clark's sequence on Kam got me a chub. Wow - he's def long and athletic.
You're not kidding. It was only four seconds but an impressive four seconds
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 06, 2024, 12:14:41 PM
You're not kidding. It was only four seconds but an impressive four seconds
Rick Pitino approved.
Yeah, Clark might be a project
But there's something to work with. A lot.
Quote from: MuMark on June 06, 2024, 12:01:59 PM
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1798759790786773314?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Looking at the 0:08 mark...damn, Hamilton is a big kid. I'm excited to see him play. It sure seems like there is more than 1" difference between him and Parham.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 06, 2024, 12:07:13 PM
Clark's sequence on Kam got me a chub. Wow - he's def long and athletic.
Holy hell. That dude is gonna be a PROBLEM. Absolutely love that sequence.
I thought this class was gonna be a special one with the Owens/Parham (add Hamilton given the RS). But Clark's potential is pretty sky high with a motor and defensive persistence like that. Time for Shaka to keep up the "shaka develop's bigs" line
Josh 2 starting C
TAMU
The kiwimobile is going to get awfully crowded. Next stop the NBA.
Quote from: barfolomew on June 03, 2024, 12:30:51 PM
Useful if we play South Florida.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbzN4OGNuMXVsdzY4dndxenZpcGk1cHI0N2Y1bHN4aGllNWprY284cyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/9VnK2SUebgetTc9X7B/giphy.gif)
"I knew I should have made that left turn at Albuquerque"
Jake
As you know, I loved the last two seasons a great deal and going to miss the excitement TK and Oso provided big time. That said, I have been waiting from day one of the Shaka era to see long, tall, athletic players and hopefully playing more aggressive D. I cannot wait to see the new guys in action.
Ben is a euro-big. Or a Henry Ellenson big. There are different ways to be 6'11 240. And looking at that freshmen video, it is going to be OK. Patience.
Quote from: tower912 on June 06, 2024, 02:02:11 PM
Ben is a euro-big. Or a Henry Ellenson big. There are different ways to be 6'11 240. And looking at that freshmen video, it is going to be OK. Patience.
We need more Caedin. He's flown under the radar from a highlight perspective for a year now.
Yeah, that Josh sequence was awesome.
Quote from: tower912 on June 06, 2024, 02:02:11 PM
Ben is a euro-big. Or a Henry Ellenson big. There are different ways to be 6'11 240. And looking at that freshmen video, it is going to be OK. Patience.
Wrong about that one. He might be an Ellenson big, but not Euro big. No where the ball handling and passing skills of a Euro big.
You watch that sequence with Josh vs. Kam and you have to wonder why he generated no interest.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on June 06, 2024, 07:26:33 PM
You watch that sequence with Josh vs. Kam and you have to wonder why he generated no interest.
Probably because its just a few seconds on a highlight tape.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 06, 2024, 04:17:14 PM
Wrong about that one. He might be an Ellenson big, but not Euro big. No where the ball handling and passing skills of a Euro big.
Would be totally cool with Ben averaging a double-double, 2 assists and a block and a half a game. Let him be an Ellenson big all he wants.
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1799132442135310493?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
I am enjoying the aggressiveness and athleticism being highlighted in these clips.
Quote from: tower912 on June 08, 2024, 09:34:15 AM
I am enjoying the aggressiveness and athleticism being highlighted in these clips.
So much for the image of a kinder, gentler Tower. :)
Yeah, it's great to see the guys show what they can do. I want to see the team be able to get into our opponents' faces more often this season. Like Stevie taking out that smart ass Xavier player in Milwaukee. I forgot his name, but Stevie's "you're not going
anywhere" when he pinned the guy against the line at the end of the game was great!
Souley Boum. And I missed the full court pressure last season.
Quote from: tower912 on June 08, 2024, 09:59:39 AM
Souley Boum. And I missed the full court pressure last season.
Thanks Tower. I forget a lot of things lately. I'm trying to remember what I had for breakfast. Not sure. :)
It's so much fun to watch Shaka build this team and the players to build themselves (with Shaka's guidance) as young men. There is not so much as a hint of "me me me" with these guys. Love it!
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on June 08, 2024, 10:13:48 AM
Thanks Tower. I forget a lot of things lately. I'm trying to remember what I had for breakfast. Not sure. :)
It's so much fun to watch Shaka build this team and the players to build themselves (with Shaka's guidance) as young men. There is not so much as a hint of "me me me" with these guys. Love it!
I still remember that first open practice when Darryl Morsell was dogging the young guys. You can see all the things Morsell was doing reflected in this team now. All the habits and tendencies drilled into them that first year paying off in the years that followed. Morsell (and Kuath) were incredibly underrated recruits in terms of their long-term impact on the program.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 06, 2024, 09:31:57 AM
Basically he is a small forward that will have to play center! Oso was twice as quick as well, it will interesting how the offense is run this year because one thing Oso brought to the table were easy at the rim baskets. Gold barely did pick and roll.
I've never heard of a 6'11" small forward.
Brad Sellers. Dirk. Danny Manning (with good knees). Giannis.
Quote from: tower912 on June 08, 2024, 03:38:42 PM
Brad Sellers. Dirk. Danny Manning (with good knees). Giannis.
To name a few. How about KD.
Quote from: tower912 on June 08, 2024, 03:38:42 PM
Brad Sellers. Dirk. Danny Manning (with good knees). Giannis.
Those aren't small forwards.
Kevin Durant