Damn. Only 71.
I wondered how he'd live without the Pac-12. Turns out, he won't.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 27, 2024, 12:33:51 PM
I wondered how he'd live without the Pac-12. Turns out, he won't.
Interesting input. Sheesh
Crushing news
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 27, 2024, 12:34:33 PM
Interesting input. Sheesh
Jokes are painful for old, pretentious white guys.
Had he been healthy, he would be consensus top 10 all-time.
Greatest performance ever by a college player back in the early 70s against Memphis State.
Quote from: Jockey on May 27, 2024, 01:59:12 PM
Had he been healthy, he would be consensus top 10 all-time.
Greatest performance ever by a college player back in the early 70s against Memphis State.
His stat-line that game was ridiculous. He had a sweet little bank shot. Lucas loved the guy. Sad news. I like his zip outlet passes.
Quote from: Jockey on May 27, 2024, 01:56:42 PM
Jokes are painful for old, pretentious white guys.
Fascinating how triggering Walton is to some here. Joyless humans
I enjoyed his shtick, admired him as a player. RIP.
One of the true all time greats. Basketball Career cut short by injuries. Was a fun announcer and always was very Pro MU over the years from his relationship with Maurice Lucas, who he named his son Luke after.
Sounds like he fought the cancer hard till the end .
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nba-hall-famer-bill-walton-dead-71
Nobody is perfect, but Bill was overwhelming net positive for the game. Didn't take it too seriously and had other important interest outside of the game that lent to having sports in proper perspective. At lest, that how I saw it.
Did he ever play vs. Marquette?
Also, did he announce a Maui game for us?
Quote from: marqfan22 on May 27, 2024, 03:16:55 PM
Did he ever play vs. Marquette?
Nope. Al only played John Wooden once - in Al's first season.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 27, 2024, 03:22:17 PM
Nope. Al only played John Wooden once - in Al's first season.
Wooden was ducking from MU. :D
How good was that Portland '77 squad? Had Walton stayed healthy would that have won another chip?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 27, 2024, 03:51:54 PM
How good was that Portland '77 squad? Had Walton stayed healthy would that have won another chip?
Yes, they likely would have won the '78 title too. They had the league's best record by far before Walton got hurt.
The Sonics team that beat them was no slouch - they made the Finals back to back playing the Bullets both times. Won the second.
After that the Lakers pretty much took over the West.
A true American original, and an eclectic guy who wasn't afraid to be true to his beliefs.
Could he guard Kareem? I know he stated repeatedly he's the best player that he faced. There were a ton of cool bigs from the 70's until the Shaq era. i would have liked to have seen Moses Malone. The man appears all business in the videos I've seen. Relentless on the glass. Highly underrated historically imo.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 27, 2024, 03:51:54 PM
How good was that Portland '77 squad? Had Walton stayed healthy would that have won another chip?
Muggsy:
77 Trail Blazers led by Walton were an incredible combination of Athleticism, Team Work, Basketball IQ and Coaching. Walton was incredible Rim Protector and Glass Sweeper. Many times when Walton would get a hard earned board ( he always got the hard ones), he would turn in mid air , and before his feet landed , he would have the ball moving down the court to a Lionel Hollins or Johnny Davis. Similarly, he would block shots to one of his own team mates. On offense , he was the Fulcrum for everything the team did, with the last option being his own Jump Hook or a Pump Fake and Jam, both of which were unstoppable. A lot of what he did offensively didn't show up on the stat sheets, setting screens etc.
So Yes, no question Blazers would have won more championships. They were well on their way in 78 to another one when the injury re occurred.
The 77 Blazer Squad beat an Excellent 76er team that had Dr. J, George McGinnis and Doug Collins at the peak of their careers. 77 Blazer swept The Kareem and Jerry West coached Laker squad to get to the finals. Kareem was in his Prime, and widely regard as the Best Player in Basketball, Walton got the best him in those 4 games with a legendary individual performance.
Quote from: Herman Cain on May 27, 2024, 05:03:44 PM
Muggsy:
77 Trail Blazers led by Walton were an incredible combination of Athleticism, Team Work, Basketball IQ and Coaching. Walton was incredible Rim Protector and Glass Sweeper. Many times when Walton would get a hard earned board ( he always got the hard ones), he would turn in mid air , and before his feet landed , he would have the ball moving down the court to a Lionel Hollins or Johnny Davis. Similarly, he would block shots to one of his own team mates. On offense , he was the Fulcrum for everything the team did, with the last option being his own Jump Hook or a Pump Fake and Jam, both of which were unstoppable. A lot of what he did offensively didn't show up on the stat sheets, setting screens etc.
So Yes, no question Blazers would have won more championships. They were well on their way in 78 to another one when the injury re occurred.
The 77 Blazer Squad beat an Excellent 76er team that had Dr. J, George McGinnis and Doug Collins at the peak of their careers. 77 Blazer swept The Kareem and Jerry West coached Laker squad to get to the finals. Kareem was in his Prime, and widely regard as the Best Player in Basketball, Walton got the best him in those 4 games with a legendary individual performance.
It's a shame he couldn't stay healthy Herman.
Didn't shut up and dribble. Knew the world was bigger than just basketball.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 27, 2024, 04:59:10 PM
Could he guard Kareem? I know he stated repeatedly he's the best player that he faced. There were a ton of cool bigs from the 70's until the Shaq era. i would have liked to have seen Moses Malone. The man appears all business in the videos I've seen. Relentless on the glass. Highly underrated historically imo.
Walton could definitely guard Kareem.
Was he the greatest college hooper of all-time or is it Jabbar?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 27, 2024, 05:29:23 PM
Was he the greatest college hooper of all-time or is it Jabbar?
I have no idea.
Kareem's stats at UCLA with 3 titles is pretty ridiculous. But Walton's numbers are impressive as well.
Bill Walton was an all time, all time basketball player. He was skilled beyond belief for his size and it was a joy to watch him play the game.
I will always remember and appreciate his time with the Celtics. The '86 team may be the greatest passing time I have ever seen.
All I can say, if you never watched videos of Bill playing basketball, do it tonight. I do not get sad of old athletes dying easily, but I little sadness tonight for this basketball fan.
A great player with a big personality.
He was absolutely 1 of 1. A lot of people didn't like him on color, and I get it, but I enjoyed it in doses cause, unlike Dickie V or others, it never became a shtick. He didn't have catch phrases and you had no damn idea what was coming next.
I think it's also buffered by the fact that I struggle to recall a negative story or anecdote about the guy. The worst was some form of "Bill Walton is a lunatic" but it was never in a malicious or antisocial fashion. He truly marched to his own drum and encouraged everyone else to do the same. CBB will miss him
Quote from: JWags85 on May 27, 2024, 07:20:18 PM
He was absolutely 1 of 1. A lot of people didn't like him on color, and I get it, but I enjoyed it in doses cause, unlike Dickie V or others, it never became a shtick. He didn't have catch phrases and you had no damn idea what was coming next.
I think it's also buffered by the fact that I struggle to recall a negative story or anecdote about the guy. The worst was some form of "Bill Walton is a lunatic" but it was never in a malicious or antisocial fashion. He truly marched to his own drum and encouraged everyone else to do the same. CBB will miss him
Didn't have catch phrases? Conference of champions?
"Bill's a gorilla until the fight starts. Then he goes in hiding while I straighten things out,"
Maurice Lucas
nm
Classic Bill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1YI06ZTNOk
Really unfortunate. Will miss his "accidental" references to MU as the warriors...
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 27, 2024, 09:56:49 PM
Didn't have catch phrases? Conference of champions?
Is that a catchphrase or just his pet name for the conference that he adores? If he had names like that for a million things, then maybe. But that was the only thing.
Had never really watched many Walton highlights. Looks like he had a bit of Jokic's passing ability out of the mid post and Duncan's defensive abilities and fundamentals (bank shots from 15).
Quote from: wadesworld on May 28, 2024, 10:44:44 AM
Had never really watched many Walton highlights. Looks like he had a bit of Jokic's passing ability out of the mid post and Duncan's defensive abilities and fundamentals (bank shots from 15).
He started as a guard in high school and had a big growth spurt between frosh and sophomore years I believe, so the passing and feel for that aspect was there.
He'd have thrived in the modern game. He'd have thrived in any era and did during his time, but playing in the age of spacing? Yeah, he'd be unstoppable
Before the injuries hobbled him, he was on track to be in the discussion for best big man ever. He was as good as Kareem. Bad feet, bad ankles. Actually listed below his true height.
Quote from: tower912 on May 28, 2024, 11:26:37 AM
Before the injuries hobbled him, he was on track to be in the discussion for best big man ever. He was as good as Kareem. Bad feet, bad ankles. Actually listed below his true height.
Walton never wanted to be known as a 7 footer so he listed himself at 6-11 even though he was closer to 7-2.
This picture tells a lot about Walton for those who never saw him play. Blocking Kareems Sky Hook while elevating on bad wheels..
(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/a2896bb/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3630x5237+0+0/resize/1240x1789!/format/webp/quality/75/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fe3%2Fae%2F3ae2e0ca4f4cb25ba367a3045484%2F19831102bkbsdlak02532.JPG)
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 27, 2024, 04:59:10 PM
Could he guard Kareem? I know he stated repeatedly he's the best player that he faced. There were a ton of cool bigs from the 70's until the Shaq era. i would have liked to have seen Moses Malone. The man appears all business in the videos I've seen. Relentless on the glass. Highly underrated historically imo.
Was Malone great? Moses 3x MVP, Koby 1x MVP.
Moses is way underrated.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on May 28, 2024, 02:17:42 PM
Was Malone great? Moses 3x MVP, Koby 1x MVP.
Moses is way underrated.
agree and disagree.
A great player. Generally considered top 25 all-time, so not underrated.
One of the reason Moses is "underrated" is that he was on some really bad teams early in his career. The Houston Rockets were really an afterthought, who qualified for the 1981 Finals with a losing record as a six seed. (When there were only six seeds per conference.) So he kinda battled in obscurity for awhile.
But everyone knew that when he was traded to the Sixers they were the instant leading contender.
Quote from: tower912 on May 28, 2024, 11:26:37 AM
Before the injuries hobbled him, he was on track to be in the discussion for best big man ever. He was as good as Kareem. Bad feet, bad ankles. Actually listed below his true height.
All true.
I know a lot of Scoop hated him as an analyst but I loved the guy - in small doses, which is how, in the Midwest and Florida, I got him. He loved the game and he loved life - and it came through loud and clear.
Quote from: Jockey on May 28, 2024, 02:28:05 PM
agree and disagree.
A great player. Generally considered top 25 all-time, so not underrated.
He could still be underrated in the Top 25. He led the league in rebounding 14 straight years.
He's better than the other malone (Karl). Many sources have Karl ranked higher. Same with Kevin Garnett. That, to me, means Moses could be considered underrated.
Quote from: lawdog77 on May 28, 2024, 02:54:29 PM
He could still be underrated in the Top 25. He led the league in rebounding 14 straight years.
Moses was great, but he did not lead the league in rebounding 14 straight years.
Quote from: lawdog77 on May 28, 2024, 02:54:29 PM
He could still be underrated in the Top 25. He led the league in rebounding 14 straight years.
He's better than the other malone (Karl). Many sources have Karl ranked higher. Same with Kevin Garnett. That, to me, means Moses could be considered underrated.
Ty lawdog. Jockey appears to have completely overlooked your points or perused various top 25 lists. The guy was a 3-time MVP. He clearly owned the fking glass for about 15 years. Yet, on many lists, I see him behind Dr J, Karl Malone, Garnett, Barkley, Nowitzki, David Robinson, ETC. My top three underrated are Baylor, Moses, and Rick Barry.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 28, 2024, 03:06:50 PM
Moses was great, but he did not lead the league in rebounding 14 straight years.
Doesn't matter. Look at the man's stats! He was a rebounding machine.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 28, 2024, 03:06:50 PM
Moses was great, but he did not lead the league in rebounding 14 straight years.
Yes, my bad. I misread an article. 6 times he did, but 14 straight years he had double digit rebounding
Nobody rebounded Moses Malone misses like Moses Malone
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 28, 2024, 03:20:38 PM
Nobody rebounded Moses Malone misses like Moses Malone
LOL. Yep.
A great player, but I think pretty accurately "rated." Top 25 but I wouldn't put him higher than that.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 28, 2024, 03:09:04 PM
Ty lawdog. Jockey appears to have completely overlooked your points or perused various top 25 lists. The guy was a 3-time MVP. He clearly owned the fking glass for about 15 years. Yet, on many lists, I see him behind Dr J, Karl Malone, Garnett, Barkley, Nowitzki, David Robinson, ETC. My top three underrated are Baylor, Moses, and Rick Barry.
Rick Barry? He was on the 50th anniversary top 50 team. How high do you want to rank the guy?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 28, 2024, 03:09:04 PM
Ty lawdog. Jockey appears to have completely overlooked your points or perused various top 25 lists. The guy was a 3-time MVP. He clearly owned the fking glass for about 15 years. Yet, on many lists, I see him behind Dr J, Karl Malone, Garnett, Barkley, Nowitzki, David Robinson, ETC. My top three underrated are Baylor, Moses, and Rick Barry.
And you can't argue there was not good talent in the NBA at the time, 2 of his MVPs were during the Magic & Bird era.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 28, 2024, 03:26:23 PM
LOL. Yep.
A great player, but I think pretty accurately "rated." Top 25 but I wouldn't put him higher than that.
Kind of a crappy shooter for a big man and not much of a passer
Just looking at the stats for that '83 Sixers team...
The entire team shot 109 three pointers all year. 76 of them from Andrew Toney. Dr. J shot seven three pointers all season! (Moses shot one.)
Different times...
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 28, 2024, 03:10:36 PM
Doesn't matter. Look at the man's stats! He was a rebounding machine.
He was a very good rebounder. There have been plenty better.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 28, 2024, 03:48:51 PM
Just looking at the stats for that '83 Sixers team...
The entire team shot 109 three pointers all year. 76 of them from Andrew Toney. Dr. J shot seven three pointers all season! (Moses shot one.)
Different times...
As an aside, in terms of pleasure to watch playing basketball, Dr. J was right there with MJ. I could watch those two all day long.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 28, 2024, 03:20:38 PM
Nobody rebounded Moses Malone misses like Moses Malone
I loved how he would bounce the ball off the backboard if he couldn't grab the rebound, at times he'd have to do that 3-4 times in order to eventually grab the ball.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 28, 2024, 03:53:50 PM
He was a very good rebounder. There have been plenty better.
Nobody else led the league 14 years straight
Just kidding
I don't know about plenty.
Nobody has had more rebounds since he came in the league.Wilt and Bill played in a different era.
Nobody all time has more offensive rebounds.
Quote from: lawdog77 on May 28, 2024, 04:00:53 PM
Nobody else led the league 14 years straight
Just kidding
I don't know about plenty.
Nobody has had more rebounds since he came in the league.Wilt and Bill played in a different era.
Nobody all time has more offensive rebounds.
Product of the era. Doubt we'll ever see rebounding numbers like that again, well, until the game changes again
Quote from: lawdog77 on May 28, 2024, 04:00:53 PM
Nobody else led the league 14 years straight
Just kidding
I don't know about plenty.
Nobody has had more rebounds since he came in the league.Wilt and Bill played in a different era.
Nobody all time has more offensive rebounds.
Cumulative stats are as much as testament to his longevity as his ability. In terms of relative stats, Mo ranks 16th all time in rebounds per game and and 11th in rebounding percentage. He had two seasons of 15+ rpg. Rodman, for comparison's sake, had six.
Not arguing here that he isn't an all-timer, though.
Wonder what Moses Malone thinks about the life and passing of Bill Walton. Any word yet?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 28, 2024, 03:09:04 PM
Ty lawdog. Jockey appears to have completely overlooked your points or perused various top 25 lists. The guy was a 3-time MVP. He clearly owned the fking glass for about 15 years. Yet, on many lists, I see him behind Dr J, Karl Malone, Garnett, Barkley, Nowitzki, David Robinson, ETC. My top three underrated are Baylor, Moses, and Rick Barry.
Muggsy:
Rather than call those three under rated , a more accurate description might be un-celebrated in the media.
Baylor played on the West Coast and during his best years in the early and mid 60s media attention and capabilities were not what they are today, Moses did not say much in interviews etc and Barry was arrogant ,egotistical and disliked by the media.
Notwithstanding the above, At the time they played all three were highly regarded by their peers and basketball aficionados in general and in the conversation for greatest player of their era.
Baylor, Moses, and Barry are well before my time. But if you look at their career stats I think we can universally agree Baylor was underrated. I'm simply not going to mess with Moses Malone or disparage him in any way. He may no longer be with us but could very well be part of my security team in my next life. 3 MVP's are 3 MVP's. Barry's stats are pretty similar to Dr.J. But he also was the best player on a championship team and Finals MVP. Now I'm not saying he's better but Erving is generally considered a T-25 guy. I think Mr.Barry is underrated, and maybe it has to do with his unlikability.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 28, 2024, 05:24:11 PM
Baylor, Moses, and Barry are well before my time. But if you look at their career stats I think we can universally agree Baylor was underrated. I'm simply not going to mess with Moses Malone or disparage him in any way. He may no longer be with us but could very well be part of my security team in my next life. 3 MVP's are 3 MVP's. Barry's stats are pretty similar to Dr.J. But he also was the best player on a championship team and Finals MVP. Now I'm not saying he's better but Erving is generally considered a T-25 guy. I think Mr.Barry is underrated, and maybe it has to do with his unlikability.
Who cares
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 28, 2024, 03:09:04 PM
My top three underrated are Baylor, Moses, and Rick Barry.
They are all very highly regarded.
None was top-10 material. After that, it's more of a jumble for the next 20-40 spots, and they're all in there.
RIP, Bill Walton.
I have Lebron and Curry in the T-10 fron this era. We'll see about Jokic, Giannis, and others. My remaining 8 are: Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, BIrd, Russell, Duncan, and Baylor.
Gang, that Memphis State game in the NCAA finals was one for the books. Bill Walton was one of the most dominant presences I ever saw.
Period.
Among college players, the only one better was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. And the difference was closer than one might think.
Amazing that John Wooden coached them both -- but maybe not given Sam Gilbert's presence around the UCLA program.
Quote from: dgies9156 on May 29, 2024, 08:29:26 AM
Gang, that Memphis State game in the NCAA finals was one for the books. Bill Walton was one of the most dominant presences I ever saw.
Period.
Among college players, the only one better was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. And the difference was closer than one might think.
Amazing that John Wooden coached them both -- but maybe not given Sam Gilbert's presence around the UCLA program.
Did Al recruit both of them?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 29, 2024, 08:45:43 AM
Did Al recruit both of them?
Kareem came before Al had established MU as a national power and Walton was from Southern California so I doubt it.
Quote from: dgies9156 on May 29, 2024, 08:29:26 AM
Gang, that Memphis State game in the NCAA finals was one for the books. Bill Walton was one of the most dominant presences I ever saw.
Period.
Among college players, the only one better was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. And the difference was closer than one might think.
Amazing that John Wooden coached them both -- but maybe not given Sam Gilbert's presence around the UCLA program.
As College players ,comparing Kareem (Alcindor in the day) to Walton is like comparing Nicklaus to Woods. Both GOATs.
Walton was highly skilled in all aspects of Center play in that era when it was a Big Mans game . If he needed to score, The Memphis State game was a great example. Rim Protection , Team Work, Passing etc was Excellent. Walton was the first Point Center of sorts . His ability to use both hands (as did Alcindor) made him incredibly hard to stop inside.
I would add Bill Russell into the mix for Greatest College Player . Just like Alcindor( dunks disallowed) , the rules were changed for Russell( Widened the lane)
Kareem , Walton and Russell all literally made their teams for the most part unbeatable.
One obscure College fact around Walton is that his back up, Swen Nater went on to a lengthy ABA and NBA career, being named ABA rookie of the year , ABA All Pro and leading NBA in rebounding one season during Moses era. Walton was so dominant , Nater was used strictly as a practice player in College.