Based on comments/conversations in other threads, there seems to be enough interest to start a stand-alone WNBA thread ...
Some people had a conniption fit about what Taurasi said awaited Clark in the WNBA. But it's hard to argue that her basic point - that Clark would be facing much more talented opponents game after game with the Fever than she did at Iowa - wasn't spot-on.
She was defended well by the Sun all game yesterday, had very little room to shoot, was played physically, and had to force a lot of passes into small windows that closed quickly. She finished with 10 turnovers to go with 20 pts (5/15 shooting). And while the Fever have a couple/few good players, they are still not very good and she often won't get much help.
Indiana's schedule suggests Clark and her team has a pretty rough learning curve ahead: 2 games against NY, followed by another with Conn, followed by Seattle, LA and Vegas.
I'm interested to see how Caitlin Clark mania translates to the WNBA. I had no problem with what Taurasi said and yes Clark wasn't going to come in and dominate in the WNBA right away.
I was happy to see the Lynx win - have switched my affiliation from the Sun to them with Natisha Hiedeman getting traded to the Lynx.
Thanks for starting this thread.
Quote from: MU82 on May 15, 2024, 09:39:19 AM
Based on comments/conversations in other threads, there seems to be enough interest to start a stand-alone WNBA thread ...
Some people had a conniption fit about what Taurasi said awaited Clark in the WNBA. But it's hard to argue that her basic point - that Clark would be facing much more talented opponents game after game with the Fever than she did at Iowa - wasn't spot-on.
She was defended well by the Sun all game yesterday, had very little room to shoot, was played physically, and had to force a lot of passes into small windows that closed quickly. She finished with 10 turnovers to go with 20 pts (5/15 shooting). And while the Fever have a couple/few good players, they are still not very good and she often won't get much help.
Indiana's schedule suggests Clark and her team has a pretty rough learning curve ahead: 2 games against NY, followed by another with Conn, followed by Seattle, LA and Vegas.
I think the theme of Taurasi's statement was less of an issue than her general grizzled old hater condescension for every new player. From my perspective, it was less "she's amazing, but this is a different game" and more like "I don't get the hype, wait till she plays real players". And thats coming from someone who LOVED watching Taurasi at UCONN and early WNBA days.
As for Clark, honestly, it was fodder for both depending on how you view her. The Fever still are super flawed. Boston was terrible last night and Clark was getting double teams/face up guarding from the center line in. She's gonna struggle putting up big assist numbers due to the team she's playing with.
That being said, it was a tale of two halves. she started 0-5, but wasn't overly forcing, rest of the game she went 5-10 and was really the only offense the Fever had in the second half. The TOs were terrible, but the officials let her get played much more physical than she saw at Iowa, that will for sure be an adjustment. She got smacked on 2 layups I saw that ended up with her losing the ball out of bounds that would definitely have been FTs any game last year.
If she plays like she did in the second half and even has half the TOs, she'll run away with ROY.
Agree that if last night's game was Clark's "floor," she's gonna be just fine, Wags. And yes, Taurasi was condescending ... but her point wasn't wrong. And of course, we're both right about the Fever. They've had the #1 pick two straight years for a reason.
I'd bet on Clark being a good, maybe even very good, WNBA player. I highly doubt she will be a generational talent at that level as she was at her previous level, but who knows?
Will be curious to see how many eyeballs were on last night's game.
Quote from: MU82 on May 15, 2024, 10:44:23 AM
Agree that if last night's game was Clark's "floor," she's gonna be just fine, Wags. And yes, Taurasi was condescending ... but her point wasn't wrong. And of course, we're both right about the Fever. They've had the #1 pick two straight years for a reason.
I'd bet on Clark being a good, maybe even very good, WNBA player. I highly doubt she will be a generational talent at that level as she was at her previous level, but who knows?
Will be curious to see how many eyeballs were on last night's game.
Nobody cared about the WNBA before Clark arrived. If you're right and she only turns out to be just another good to very good player in the league people will rapidly lose interest. Only hope for the league is if she's a star.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 15, 2024, 10:58:21 AM
Nobody cared about the WNBA before Clark arrived. If you're right and she only turns out to be just another good to very good player in the league people will rapidly lose interest. Only hope for the league is if she's a star.
I hope so. As an evangelical Christian, the idea of women's sports being popular is very concerning
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2024, 11:19:31 AM
I hope so. As an evangelical Christian, the idea of women's sports being popular is very concerning
The players have been told diabolical lies about pursuing sports as a career, when their true vocation is breeding.
Anyhow, the old man "nobody cares" take was inevitable, facts be damned.
One should compare WNBA TV ratings vs Big East TV ratings and tell us which nobody cares about.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 15, 2024, 10:58:21 AM
Nobody cared about the WNBA before Clark arrived. If you're right and she only turns out to be just another good to very good player in the league people will rapidly lose interest. Only hope for the league is if she's a star.
The WNBA's ratings are generally around what NBA/USA gets for the EPL. Its championship series outpaced events like the average Wimbledon coverage on ESPN. (Despite being held during the NFL regular season and MLB playoffs.)
So I don't think its fair to say that "nobody cared" about the WNBA. It by and large is a niche product in a sports world full of them.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 15, 2024, 11:29:35 AM
The WNBA's ratings are generally around what NBA/USA gets for the EPL. Its championship series outpaced events like the average Wimbledon coverage on ESPN. (Despite being held during the NFL regular season and MLB playoffs.)
So I don't think its fair to say that "nobody cared" about the WNBA. It by and large is a niche product in a sports world full of them.
Lenny doesn't care about women's sports = no one cares about women's sports.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 15, 2024, 10:58:21 AM
Nobody cared about the WNBA before Clark arrived. If you're right and she only turns out to be just another good to very good player in the league people will rapidly lose interest. Only hope for the league is if she's a star.
I disagree with most of this, but I'm not in the mood for a multiple-page back-and-forth about it, so I'll let you tangle with others.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 15, 2024, 11:29:35 AM
The WNBA's ratings are generally around what NBA/USA gets for the EPL. Its championship series outpaced events like the average Wimbledon coverage on ESPN. (Despite being held during the NFL regular season and MLB playoffs.)
So I don't think its fair to say that "nobody cared" about the WNBA. It by and large is a niche product in a sports world full of them.
Yep, and thats totally fine! The sooner the discussion about the league, its success , etc... is moved away from comparison to the NBA (or the other top 4/5 leagues), the better the relative success and growth of the WNBA can be measured. And this goes for both the haters of the WNBA, and its rabid supporters.
Good lord. Only took a few post before hijacking MU82's attempt to have conversations about the WNBA.
(I know, welcome to Scoop >:()
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 15, 2024, 10:58:21 AM
Nobody cared about the WNBA before Clark arrived. If you're right and she only turns out to be just another good to very good player in the league people will rapidly lose interest. Only hope for the league is if she's a star.
Attendance has been rising the past several years. There are some college players now that might make better pros-Paige Buckets, and Juju Watkins. The league is not going to fold if Clark doesnt meet expectations. It's OK to just say its not for you.
Just heard about the crazy Griner divorce/annulment/pregnancy story last night. Looking forward to see how that ends up.
Watched the Fever and the Aces last night. I'm a bigger Kate Martin fan than a Clark fan for sure, but Martin likely won't play much. Clark was pushed around and made a priority for probably the best defensive team in the WNBA. She will be fine when her team improves, Boston gets fit, and they can spread out and run like at Iowa. What stood out to me most from a negative was that she still displays some of the whiny, palms up attitude and ole defense. I'm sure she was pressing big time, I'm sure the Sun wanted to make a point (and they are a very good team), and the arena was packed, eyeballs watched, merch is selling. Will be interesting to watch the rookie class effect on attendance, specifically when Clark is in town.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 15, 2024, 11:29:35 AM
The WNBA's ratings are generally around what NBA/USA gets for the EPL. Its championship series outpaced events like the average Wimbledon coverage on ESPN. (Despite being held during the NFL regular season and MLB playoffs.)
So I don't think its fair to say that "nobody cared" about the WNBA. It by and large is a niche product in a sports world full of them.
I'll respond to your post since it's the only one that's neither hysterical nor trying to misstate my position.
"Nobody" wasn't meant literally. I understand Rico (as an Evangelical Christian) took it literally and made dumb assumptions based on it. Others, not so much.
As you say, WNBA is niche. Salaries are low and the league as a whole needs to be subsidized. Perhaps the audience has been growing (I honestly don't know) but it hasn't been earth shattering. Then along comes Caitlin Clark. Arenas are sold out - my daughter took one of my granddaughters to a Northwestern - Iowa regular season game where scalpers were selling seats for $500+. NCAA tournament games that she plays in have record ratings - by a mile. She is, for lack of a better word, a phenomenon. And if she's a pro star, she can bring the same heretofore disinterested (in the WNBA) fans along with her. I don't think it's likely they'll stick around if she turns out to be just a good or very good player. That was all I was saying.
Lenny, you don't allow for the possibility that another player or three or five could capture the attention and admiration of fans and build on any excitement Clark creates?
Quote from: MU82 on May 15, 2024, 10:20:30 PM
Lenny, you don't allow for the possibility that another player or three or five could capture the attention and admiration of fans and build on any excitement Clark creates?
Anything's possible, I guess. But it seems much more likely that she's the unicorn and if the WNBA is going to see a real spike in popularity in the near future she'll be the one leading the charge.
82
I thought Clark was great for women's sports and I hope she lives up to the hype as a pro. That said, I think it is going to be a very long time before we see the star power Clark provided. It was a perfect storm with NIL endorsements and non stop coverage by Fox and ESPN. Truthfully, all of the attention she received might have been a bad thing for the "next" Clark. I am not sure how anyone could match the hype and not have it feel forced.
I'll admit, I am not a women's basketball fan, but I did watch more than the previous 59 years of my life this season. When the college season ended, I was pretty much done with watching Clark. I am pulling for her and hope she helps the WNBA. I think it is a long shot that she, or others, help the WNBA have real staying power. I hope I am wrong.
Gang, if you go back and look at ANY sport, you will see the same up-tick the WNBA is experiencing now.
The NBA could not keep a team in Chicago until 1966. Through much of the 1970s, it was cocaine infested and its championship series was on tape delay. It took the Bird/Magic draft, ESPN, a tough drug policy and the consequent enthusiasm with Michael Jordan's arrival to turn the NBA into what it is today.
Until the Colts/Giants championship game in 1959, the Green Bay Packers in the 1960s and the consolidation of the national television contract by Pete Rozelle, pro football was what you followed when your favorite college player's eligibility was up. At best it was an afterthought. At worst, it was the Green Bay Packers franchise nearly failing.
Even the AFL was a joke until someone threw money at it, attracted Joe Namath and a host of other NFL stars. Suddenly, they merged and the AFL made the NFL what it is today.
I don't know if Catlin Clark is the real deal or not. Maybe she's going to be the female Michael Jordan, maybe she'll be another Rebecca Lobo. Time will tell. But if she gets more girls into sports and focused on strong competitive values, exercise and judgment good coaching and hard work bring, then God love her, she will have accomplished an awful lot!
The WNBA has been growing in popularity for awhile and the metrics are there to show it. Clark will help, but if she somehow fails to live up to the hype, the league is still in a very good place.
Lenny's mentioned the NBA subsidy, but I am not exactly sure what that means. I get the impression that it has gone from a straight cash infusion in the early days of the league, to more of covering overhead costs in locations where they share facilities. My understanding is that many of the teams have been operationally cash flow positive for awhile now.
I think it would help if they moved away from the summer schedule however.
Quote from: Goose on May 16, 2024, 07:30:46 AM
82
I thought Clark was great for women's sports and I hope she lives up to the hype as a pro. That said, I think it is going to be a very long time before we see the star power Clark provided. It was a perfect storm with NIL endorsements and non stop coverage by Fox and ESPN. Truthfully, all of the attention she received might have been a bad thing for the "next" Clark. I am not sure how anyone could match the hype and not have it feel forced.
I'll admit, I am not a women's basketball fan, but I did watch more than the previous 59 years of my life this season. When the college season ended, I was pretty much done with watching Clark. I am pulling for her and hope she helps the WNBA. I think it is a long shot that she, or others, help the WNBA have real staying power. I hope I am wrong.
I agree with you (and Lenny) that Clark was/is an athletic Haley's Comet that captured the attention of lots of people who never or rarely watched women's basketball and that we might never again see anything quite like her.
But similar was true of Bird/Magic, who burst onto the scene in the late-1970s and did wonders for both college hoops and the NBA. Before them, the NBA Finals were shown late at night on tape delay. Well, there never has been another Bird or another Magic ... but there was a Jordan, and then a Kobe and Shaq, and then a LeBron, and then other great players and compelling stories.
I am NOT predicting that the WNBA is headed for glory now that Clark has shown up, even if she ends up not being a transcendent pro. What I'm saying is that maybe, a year or three or five from now, there will be the women's basketball equivalent of "the next" - a Jordan or Kobe or LeBron who will be among the next wave to keep at least some of the momentum going. Maybe. Or maybe not.
What I'm also not saying is, "Nope. It's all Clark. And if she's not great, both women's college basketball and the WNBA will quickly go back to being ignored." Because I don't know that, either.
There is a middle ground between runaway success and return to being ignored.
Hockey had its Haley's Comet, a guy named Wayne Gretzky. Other great players like Lemieux and Ovechkin followed, but for a variety of reasons hockey is still a niche sport enjoyed by a decent-sized audience but nothing approaching basketball. Maybe that's the kind of place the WNBA will settle. Or maybe not. We'll see!
Yet she doesn't get paid. Girls can earn a bigger salary going into bowling or the rodeo.
Quote from: MU82 on May 16, 2024, 08:56:01 AM
I agree with you (and Lenny) that Clark was/is an athletic Haley's Comet that captured the attention of lots of people who never or rarely watched women's basketball and that we might never again see anything quite like her.
But similar was true of Bird/Magic, who burst onto the scene in the late-1970s and did wonders for both college hoops and the NBA. Before them, the NBA Finals were shown late at night on tape delay. Well, there never has been another Bird or another Magic ... but there was a Jordan, and then a Kobe and Shaq, and then a LeBron, and then other great players and compelling stories.
I am NOT predicting that the WNBA is headed for glory now that Clark has shown up, even if she ends up not being a transcendent pro. What I'm saying is that maybe, a year or three or five from now, there will be the women's basketball equivalent of "the next" - a Jordan or Kobe or LeBron who will be among the next wave to keep at least some of the momentum going. Maybe. Or maybe not.
What I'm also not saying is, "Nope. It's all Clark. And if she's not great, both women's college basketball and the WNBA will quickly go back to being ignored." Because I don't know that, either.
There is a middle ground between runaway success and return to being ignored.
Hockey had its Haley's Comet, a guy named Wayne Gretzky. Other great players like Lemieux and Ovechkin followed, but for a variety of reasons hockey is still a niche sport enjoyed by a decent-sized audience but nothing approaching basketball. Maybe that's the kind of place the WNBA will settle. Or maybe not. We'll see!
Dude come on! You cannot constantly call out posters for making predictions on both sides of the fence and telling them of course they'll end up right one way or another, and then be the king of, "I'm not saying (this), but I'm also not, not saying (this)!"
Either the WNBA will blow up, or it won't! Either someone as good as or better than Caitlin Clarke will someday come along, or someone better or as good as Caitlin Clarke won't come along!
Thanks for the astute observations!
Pretty cool intro to tonight's game harkening back to Hickory, Bird, Knight and Keady, Reggie, and saying Indiana is once again the center of basketball.
Quote from: withoutbias on May 16, 2024, 05:52:47 PM
Dude come on! You cannot constantly call out posters for making predictions on both sides of the fence and telling them of course they'll end up right one way or another, and then be the king of, "I'm not saying (this), but I'm also not, not saying (this)!"
Either the WNBA will blow up, or it won't! Either someone as good as or better than Caitlin Clarke will someday come along, or someone better or as good as Caitlin Clarke won't come along!
Thanks for the astute observations!
It obviously wasn't a prediction. Indeed, it obviously was the opposite of a prediction. But you be your disingenuous self.
Oh, and if you're gonna pretend to be intellectually superior, at least spell Clark right.
WNBA better get control of the caitlin Clark situation before it get's out of hand. the league needs to nip this one NOW and send a message! there is no excuse for the behavior and I haven't seen any footage of her being overly physical nor talking chit. if she is, I don't blame her
I hope this isn't a thing about her being #1 draft pick and not being in the "sister" club and or other "behaviors"
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 06:04:14 PM
WNBA better get control of the caitlin Clark situation before it get's out of hand. the league needs to nip this one NOW and send a message! there is no excuse for the behavior and I haven't seen any footage of her being overly physical nor talking chit. if she is, I don't blame her
I hope this isn't a thing about her being #1 draft pick and not being in the "sister" club and or other "behaviors"
Quite the double standard. The contact to Clark is just an average NBA game. The "bump" by Chennedy was not that egregious IMO.
I think the only thing out of control are the ESPN talking heads on this issue.
it's all relative-the nba doles out punishment immediately, either at the time of the foul or next day at latest. seems it's been building to whatever they(wnba) allow right now
contact wasn't "egregious"?? it wasn't really a basketball move and unnecessary considering where the action was. if the refs can't see that was a flag I at that moment, then welcome to the school of angel hernandez
if they want all star womens basket-mania-ball, then never mind
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 06:25:29 PM
it's all relative-the nba doles out punishment immediately, either at the time of the foul or next day at latest. seems it's been building to whatever they(wnba) allow right now
contact wasn't "egregious"?? it wasn't really a basketball move and unnecessary considering where the action was. if the refs can't see that was a flag I at that moment, then welcome to the school of angel hernandez
if they want all star womens basket-mania-ball, then never mind
People are acting as if it was like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCu5rO2ETvs&rco=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCu5rO2ETvs&rco=1)
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 06:04:14 PM
WNBA better get control of the caitlin Clark situation before it get's out of hand. the league needs to nip this one NOW and send a message! there is no excuse for the behavior and I haven't seen any footage of her being overly physical nor talking chit. if she is, I don't blame her
I hope this isn't a thing about her being #1 draft pick and not being in the "sister" club and or other "behaviors"
This is about a lot of things - race, sexual preference, being a rookie. But mostly it's about envy. Mean spirited and stupid envy. The blatant cheap shot, the cheering on the sideline by Angel Reese, the fact that Clark's own teammates don't seem interested in having her back. Stupid. If they just play basketball Caitlin Clark will do for them what Tiger did for other golfers - make them a whole lot of $ they wouldn't otherwise make. Sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 06:25:29 PM
it's all relative-the nba doles out punishment immediately, either at the time of the foul or next day at latest. seems it's been building to whatever they(wnba) allow right now
contact wasn't "egregious"?? it wasn't really a basketball move and unnecessary considering where the action was. if the refs can't see that was a flag I at that moment, then welcome to the school of angel hernandez
if they want all star womens basket-mania-ball, then never mind
Clark has played in 11 games. One hard foul. There really isn't a problem here.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 06:39:48 PM
Clark has played in 11 games. One hard foul. There really isn't a problem here.
That wasn't a hard foul. It was a blatant, blindside in the back body block before the ball was even put into play.
There have been scores of hard fouls, at least from what I've read from commentators and former players.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 06:39:48 PM
Clark has played in 11 games. One hard foul. There really isn't a problem here.
yes, 1 hard foul in 11 games, very good but it sure looked like they put a bounty on her arse. to go over right in front of ref and hip check her...then the press conference was an embarrassment. they did not represent their team nor WNBA well at all. the "tough guy" look ain't a good one
point #2-don't these little hoodlum-esses understand that Caitlin is good for ALL of the WNBA? she's bringing more people to the show and that is what they got-not very bright
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 06:56:57 PM
yes, 1 hard foul in 11 games, very good but it sure looked like they put a bounty on her arse. to go over right in front of ref and hip check her...then the press conference was an embarrassment. they did not represent their team nor WNBA well at all. the "tough guy" look ain't a good one
point #2-don't these little hoodlum-esses understand that Caitlin is good for ALL of the WNBA? she's bringing more people to the show and that is what they got-not very bright
It's all good. You're overreacting.
Caitlin Clark will be fine. But having watched them a bit I would dismiss her coach.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 03, 2024, 06:58:58 PM
Caitlin Clark will be fine. But having watched them a bit I would dismiss her coach.
Yeah, not been all that impressed with her but there really isn't a depth of talent there either.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 07:00:43 PM
Yeah, not been all that impressed with her but there really isn't a depth of talent there either.
True. She's just on a crappy team.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 06:58:12 PM
It's all good. You're overreacting.
And you're dismissing really bad behavior as no big deal.
What did I just read?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 03, 2024, 07:06:02 PM
And you're dismissing really bad behavior as no big deal.
It's poor behavior and should be punished.
But there is really nothing to get "in control" over. A single incident doesn't indicate anything more than it being a single incident.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 03, 2024, 06:39:01 PM
This is about a lot of things - race, sexual preference, being a rookie.
WTF is this nonsense? All the mean black lesbians are out to get Caitlyn Clark huh?
You guys sound as nutty as all the paternalistic talking heads on ESPN these days.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 03, 2024, 07:12:01 PM
What did I just read?
Lenny's, who has probably watched a grand total of a dozen minutes of WNBA basketball, is fancying himself on sage on the broader social implications of someone committing a dirty foul on a basketball court.
ok, no worries, they'll all be fine ::)
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 07:23:03 PM
ok, no worries, they'll all be fine ::)
As long as there isn't an epidemic of similar like fouls, they will be. Especially Clark. She's been around the game long enough to know she would be a target.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 07:15:04 PM
WTF is this nonsense? All the mean black lesbians are out to get Caitlyn Clark huh?
You guys sound as nutty as all the paternalistic talking heads on ESPN these days.
All? Who said or suggested all?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 03, 2024, 07:49:09 PM
All? Who said or suggested all?
The fact that you believe any would target her because she's a white, heterosexual is beyond strange.
Personally, I think players are sick of the attention and trying to give her a "rude awakening" to the life of professional hoops. I think it's silly, but I think other than the body check, most have just been hard fouls in the course of play.
It's funny that a lot of people longing for the real basketball of the 80s and 90s are getting upset at this. Isn't this basically what the Jordan Rules were?
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 03, 2024, 07:57:51 PM
Personally, I think players are sick of the attention and trying to give her a "rude awakening" to the life of professional hoops. I think it's silly, but I think other than the body check, most have just been hard fouls in the course of play.
It's funny that a lot of people longing for the real basketball of the 80s and 90s are getting upset at this. Isn't this basically what the Jordan Rules were?
Your first paragraph is 100% spot on. Dianna Taurasi even said that's what she was going to be dealing with. Making it anything more than that is just so strange.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 03, 2024, 07:57:51 PM
Personally, I think players are sick of the attention and trying to give her a "rude awakening" to the life of professional hoops. I think it's silly, but I think other than the body check, most have just been hard fouls in the course of play.
It's funny that a lot of people longing for the real basketball of the 80s and 90s are getting upset at this. Isn't this basically what the Jordan Rules were?
I haven't watched a lot of WNBA hoops but the level of play hasn't Impressed me. Is it overly physical this year for some reason?
An observation from a white, heterosexual who has both played in and broadcasted WNBA games.
https://x.com/rebeccalobo/status/1797752503926436151?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 07:53:57 PM
The fact that you believe any would target her because she's a white, heterosexual is beyond strange.
The fact that you don't believe race and sexual preference can lead to mistreatment of those in the minority in both is naive.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 03, 2024, 07:57:51 PM
It's funny that a lot of people longing for the real basketball of the 80s and 90s are getting upset at this. Isn't this basically what the Jordan Rules were?
People here are longing for NBA games that end up 83-79 and are closer to football than basketball? Who?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 08:08:41 PM
An observation from a white, heterosexual who has both played in and broadcasted WNBA games.
https://x.com/rebeccalobo/status/1797752503926436151?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
dude, even stephen a. smith brought up the race thingy and he's african american which of course you well know because...you're sally
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 03, 2024, 09:00:26 PM
The fact that you don't believe race and sexual preference can lead to mistreatment of those in the minority in both is naive.
Mistreatment? Good Lord, it was a single cheap shot in the course of a basketball game, not a crime.
Your need to cry victim on behalf of the poor little white girl is bizarre.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 09:25:39 PM
dude, even stephen a. smith brought up the race thingy and he's african american which of course you well know because...you're sally
Read what he actually said, not your Fox News headline.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 03, 2024, 07:27:15 PM
"Sisters" "hoodlum-esses"
Excuse me?
gasp gasp and gasp
if you say this and worse in a rap song over the loudspeakers in a public arena...take a deep breath
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 09:35:08 PM
gasp gasp and gasp
if you say this and worse in a rap song over the loudspeakers in a public arena...take a deep breath
So unfair that those rappers get to say the N-word and you can't, hey?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 08:01:13 PM
Your first paragraph is 100% spot on. Dianna Taurasi even said that's what she was going to be dealing with. Making it anything more than that is just so strange.
Do these woman even know that they are chopping down the money tree?
Not to compare her to Tiger, but Clark is making a lot of money for those that are jealous of the attention she gets. Look at how ridiculously low WNBA salaries are. Now, someone comes along who will increase $$$ for everyone, and they're unhappy with all the attention she is getting.
Quote from: Jockey on June 03, 2024, 09:42:04 PM
Do these woman even know that they are chopping down the money tree?
Not to compare her to Tiger, but Clark is making a lot of money for those that are jealous of the attention she gets. Look at how ridiculously low WNBA salaries are. Now, someone comes along who will increase $$$ for everyone, and they're unhappy with all the attention she is getting.
This is great for the league's bottom line.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 03, 2024, 09:33:11 PM
Read what he actually said, not your Fox News headline.
Smith said he believed there were WNBA players who were jealous of the attention Clark has received since entering the league and suggested race may play a part in it. "There are girls – young ladies – in the WNBA who are jealous of Caitlin Clark. She is a White girl that has come into the league," Smith said.11 hours ago"
what? what what??
i swear you guys who hate fox, watch it more than we do, but thanks for keeping us up to date
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 09:47:43 PM
Smith said he believed there were WNBA players who were jealous of the attention Clark has received since entering the league and suggested race may play a part in it. "There are girls – young ladies – in the WNBA who are jealous of Caitlin Clark. She is a White girl that has come into the league," Smith said.11 hours ago"
what? what what??
i swear you guys who hate fox, watch it more than we do, but thanks for keeping us up to date
He did not suggest it was because of her race.
People do realize that if Caitlin Clark was simply shooting 36% from the field and 30% from 3 while turning the ball over 5.4 times per game without people pretending to be outraged at the "treatment" of her the WNBA would be getting far less attention, right? The only problem has been Reese ducking the post game presser after cheering on the physical play.
Quote from: Jockey on June 03, 2024, 09:42:04 PM
Do these woman even know that they are chopping down the money tree?
Not to compare her to Tiger, but Clark is making a lot of money for those that are jealous of the attention she gets. Look at how ridiculously low WNBA salaries are. Now, someone comes along who will increase $$$ for everyone, and they're unhappy with all the attention she is getting.
+1000. Enough people gave a $hit about them BC (before Clark) that even with subsidies they were making peanuts. Along comes somebody who will change that and what happens? Cheap shots celebrated, teammates allowing it. Dumb. Really dumb. But that's what envy can do to people. Reminds me of a verse from a Bob Dylan song:
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole that he's in
What will the cries be like when a white, biological male dunks in this league?
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 03, 2024, 10:19:05 PM
What will the cries be like when a white, biological male dunks in this league?
You'd be one of many here crying so you'll have to let us know.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 03, 2024, 09:00:26 PM
The fact that you don't believe race and sexual preference can lead to mistreatment of those in the minority in both is naive.
It was not one cheap shot dude. Not a pattern.
How paternalistic of you to want to protect the heterosexual white girl from the black lesbians.
But I think the last person on earth that wants you to paint her as some sort of victim is Caitlyn Clark.
Quote from: Jockey on June 03, 2024, 09:42:04 PM
Do these woman even know that they are chopping down the money tree?
Not to compare her to Tiger, but Clark is making a lot of money for those that are jealous of the attention she gets. Look at how ridiculously low WNBA salaries are. Now, someone comes along who will increase $$$ for everyone, and they're unhappy with all the attention she is getting.
Those hysterical women don't know what's best for them huh?
If only they'd listen to us middle aged white guys who have only watched the WNBA when we turned on the wrong channel by accident.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 06:04:14 PM
WNBA better get control of the caitlin Clark situation before it get's out of hand. the league needs to nip this one NOW and send a message! there is no excuse for the behavior and I haven't seen any footage of her being overly physical nor talking chit. if she is, I don't blame her
I hope this isn't a thing about her being #1 draft pick and not being in the "sister" club and or other "behaviors"
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Hundepfeife01.JPG/160px-Hundepfeife01.JPG)
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 03, 2024, 06:56:57 PM
yes, 1 hard foul in 11 games, very good but it sure looked like they put a bounty on her arse. to go over right in front of ref and hip check her...then the press conference was an embarrassment. they did not represent their team nor WNBA well at all. the "tough guy" look ain't a good one
point #2-don't these little hoodlum-esses understand that Caitlin is good for ALL of the WNBA? she's bringing more people to the show and that is what they got-not very bright
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Hundepfeife01.JPG/160px-Hundepfeife01.JPG)
Quote from: Pakuni on June 03, 2024, 09:41:02 PM
So unfair that those rappers get to say the N-word and you can't, hey?
Oh, he says it, we both know it.
Quote from: Jockey on June 03, 2024, 09:42:04 PM
Do these woman even know that they are chopping down the money tree?
Not to compare her to Tiger, but Clark is making a lot of money for those that are jealous of the attention she gets. Look at how ridiculously low WNBA salaries are. Now, someone comes along who will increase $$$ for everyone, and they're unhappy with all the attention she is getting.
I'm not sure you understand engagement. Controversy drives eyeballs.
Anything that has happened has been minor, but blowing it out of proportion gets people riled up and ready to watch the next game.
Here's Chris Branch in The Athletic's morning e-newsletter:
There is nothing more divisive in sports right now than the mere existence of Caitlin Clark, who inspires record viewership, controversial hard fouls and, as we saw yesterday, prominent media members to lose their minds.
Let's start with yesterday's maelstrom before we fill in some context:
During Pat McAfee's afternoon ESPN show, he referred to Clark as a "white b—" while passionately defending the Fever rookie in a segment. He took exception with the argument that anyone besides Clark (Angel Reese, Cameron Brink, etc.) is driving the league's newfound expanded audience. McAfee later apologized for his wording. Simply, as Andrew Marchand wrote yesterday, McAfee came up short.
Elsewhere on ESPN, Stephen A. Smith and women's basketball analyst Monica McNutt engaged in a frankly uncomfortable back-and-forth about the coverage of Clark and the WNBA. Smith asked McNutt, "Who talks about women's sports more than 'First Take'?" To which McNutt replied: "Stephen A., respectfully, with your platform you could've been doing this three years ago if you wanted to." Smith later got very angry online about the whole thing, while McNutt expoaded on her comments with Shannon Sharpe later in the evening.
McNutt's comment — and Smith's later response — are the crux of this entire issue:
For those who watched/covered/enjoyed WNBA basketball before Clark arrived, this was already a great league, with great storylines and great basketball. Those people will wonder why it took everyone else so long to see. More specifically, they want to know why it was Clark who brought these eyeballs, and not players like Diana Taurasi, Sue Bird, Candace Parker, Sylvia Fowles or A'ja Wilson. It's a valid point, and one Jim Trotter made back in April about the uncomfortable truth behind the Caitlin Clark Effect.
And yet this is our reality, which is something both Smith and McAfee (however clumsily) emphasized. Clark has helped bring this massive moment for the WNBA, fair or not — to the aforementioned league legends and Clark herself.
Two things can be true. I hope this is simply a day of growing pains for the national media and fans on how we talk about the WNBA as it becomes more of a national discussion. Every metric shows massive, massive interest in all things Clark and WNBA right now. That's not going away.
And a lot of that coverage is really odd, and represented by the comments that rocket and Lennys are making. Caitlyn Clark isn't some flower that needs protecting. She is a high level, professional athlete. And yeah, she's getting targeted like hyped up rookies have in the past and will be in the future.
And by the way, I didn't realize until this morning that she was jawing with Carter the play before that. So, while obviously a cheap shot, it seems less about her race and her sexuality, which were always laughable to begin with, and more about Carter being pissed off.
A simple piece of advice. Just treat women's basketball like men's basketball. We would be having NONE of these silly debates if this were some NBA rookie. No need to drag your old, white victimization nonsense into this.
Talk sh!t, get hit, basically
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2024, 07:39:35 AM
Talk sh!t, get hit, basically
Bingo. A tale as old as time.
Chicago Tribune editorial board stepping on its dick here is wholly unsurprising.
https://awfulannouncing.com/wnba/chicago-tribune-criticized-article-chennedy-carter-caitlin-clark-assault.html
This is really good.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5538306/2024/06/03/caitlin-clark-wnba-progression-chennedy-carter/?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
"McAfee was wrong when he argued that Clark needs to be protected as a "cash cow" who is bringing eyeballs to the league. It's a misguided belief that has been spewed by others, including LeBron James. As a former professional athlete, McAfee should know how foolish he sounds. Game respects game. There is no "take it easy" between the boundaries. You earn your keep.
Interestingly, the loudest voices calling for a double standard have come from men, which should be insulting to Clark and every other woman. It's as if these men are saying that Clark isn't strong enough to stand for herself. If she isn't, she should move on like any other player in that situation would do. To treat her any other way is disrespectful to not only the true stars of the game but also the game of basketball itself."
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 04, 2024, 03:47:01 AM
Those hysterical women don't know what's best for them huh?
If only they'd listen to us middle aged white guys who have only watched the WNBA when we turned on the wrong channel by accident.
You know that wasn't my point as these realizations sometimes take a few years. There was a lot of initial jealousy over Tiger as well that withered over time.
Quote from: Jockey on June 04, 2024, 12:40:47 PM
You know that wasn't my point as these realizations sometimes take a few years. There was a lot of initial jealousy over Tiger as well that withered over time.
Your point was "they're chopping down the money tree." Which is ridiculous. They're playing basketball. And sometimes playing basketball comes with chirping and tempers.
WNBA players don't owe Clark anything on the court. Absolutely nothing.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 04, 2024, 07:38:29 AM
And a lot of that coverage is really odd, and represented by the comments that rocket and Lennys are making. Caitlyn Clark isn't some flower that needs protecting. She is a high level, professional athlete. And yeah, she's getting targeted like hyped up rookies have in the past and will be in the future.
And by the way, I didn't realize until this morning that she was jawing with Carter the play before that. So, while obviously a cheap shot, it seems less about her race and her sexuality, which were always laughable to begin with, and more about Carter being pissed off.
A simple piece of advice. Just treat women's basketball like men's basketball. We would be having NONE of these silly debates if this were some NBA rookie. No need to drag your old, white victimization nonsense into this.
You're right. It was never about race. It was about a new dog on the block and the existing dogs wanting it to know the law of the land.
But everything is about 3 things: Money, money, and $$$. The alpha battles will never end, but the prospect of making more money will win out.
Quote from: Jockey on June 04, 2024, 12:47:09 PM
You're right. It was never about race. It was about a new dog on the block and the existing dogs wanting it to know the law of the land.
But everything is about 3 things: Money, money, and $$$. The alpha battles will never end, but the prospect of making more money will win out.
Of course, but in terms of generating money and interest, this is not a bad thing for the WNBA. Quite the opposite, it's a great thing. Realistically, interest in a struggling Caitlin Clark is going to wane. This makes the next Indiana-Chicago game must-watch TV.
And this isn't a matter of other WNBA players somehow endangering the league's new rainmaker. Nobody went Johnny Lawrence and swept her leg. This wasn't Kermit Washington sucker punching Rudy T, or Kevin McHale clotheslining Kurt Rambis. It was a shoulder check, and not a particularly hard one.
Clark will be fine and the league will be better off with rivalries and villains.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2024, 01:01:51 PM
Of course, but in terms of generating money and interest, this is not a bad thing for the WNBA. Quite the opposite, it's a great thing. Realistically, interest in a struggling Caitlin Clark is going to wane. This makes the next Indiana-Chicago game must-watch TV.
And this isn't a matter of other WNBA players somehow endangering the league's new rainmaker. Nobody went Johnny Lawrence and swept her leg. This wasn't Kermit Washington sucker punching Rudy T, or Kevin McHale clotheslining Kurt Rambis. It was a shoulder check, and not a particularly hard one.
Clark will be fine and the league will be better off with rivalries and villains.
Danny Larusso and Kurt Rambis deserved it. Not sure about Rudy T.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2024, 01:01:51 PM
Of course, but in terms of generating money and interest, this is not a bad thing for the WNBA. Quite the opposite, it's a great thing. Realistically, interest in a struggling Caitlin Clark is going to wane. This makes the next Indiana-Chicago game must-watch TV.
And this isn't a matter of other WNBA players somehow endangering the league's new rainmaker. Nobody went Johnny Lawrence and swept her leg. This wasn't Kermit Washington sucker punching Rudy T, or Kevin McHale clotheslining Kurt Rambis. It was a shoulder check, and not a particularly hard one.
Clark will be fine and the league will be better off with rivalries and villains.
I agree 100%.
Well maybe 95% - not quite there on the must-see TV thing. :)
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 04, 2024, 03:47:01 AM
Those hysterical women don't know what's best for them huh?
If only they'd listen to us middle aged white guys who have only watched the WNBA when we turned on the wrong channel by accident.
Thanks for calling me middle aged - so rare to get any sort of kindness/decency from you. But it's not just white guys. Plenty of black people saying it too.
Angel Reese is also a very high profile rookie. Why do you think that she a) hasn't been pushed around and cheap shotted like Clark and b) was jumping up and down and clapping when Clark was blindsided in a dead ball situation?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2024, 04:06:59 PM
Angel Reese is also a very high profile rookie. Why do you think that she a) hasn't been pushed around and cheap shotted like Clark and b) was jumping up and down and clapping when Clark was blindsided in a dead ball situation?
Huh.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1d0sspe/alyssa_thomas_gets_ejected_for_a_fragrant_foul_on/
Maybe Reese and Clark are high-level competitors who don't like each other. And the sweet little hetero white girl is not blameless for that antagonism.
Where was your outrage for this?
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0KQCw3RK8N/
Or this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX_YO9EEEI4
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2024, 04:20:12 PM
Huh.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1d0sspe/alyssa_thomas_gets_ejected_for_a_fragrant_foul_on/
Maybe Reese and Clark are high-level competitors who don't like each other. And the sweet little hetero white girl is not blameless for that antagonism.
😂😂😂
Lenny's needs to tap out of this topic.
Truly incredible
https://x.com/fox59/status/1798436729650909233?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 05, 2024, 05:53:48 PM
Truly incredible
https://x.com/fox59/status/1798436729650909233?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
(https://media.tenor.com/Hvy5BCmul_cAAAAM/white-knight-mlady.gif)
I am sure the men are glad they don't play in the WNBA. Way too brutal of a sport.
Aueriemma says Clark is being targeted fwiw.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 05, 2024, 06:43:43 PM
I am sure the men are glad they don't play in the WNBA. Way too brutal of a sport.
Thank goodness politicians are getting involved then.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 05, 2024, 06:46:06 PM
Aueriemma says Clark is being targeted fwiw.
I don't think anyone is claiming she isn't.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 05, 2024, 06:54:34 PM
I don't think anyone is claiming she isn't.
Again, she'll be fine. She really hasn't had time to train after Iowa and her team and coach is a dumpster fire. By next season she'll be ready.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 05, 2024, 05:53:48 PM
Truly incredible
https://x.com/fox59/status/1798436729650909233?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Just wait till the Hausers get involved.
Can't we ban black women from the WNBA? They're all probably in gangs.
Something something traditionals
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 05, 2024, 06:54:34 PM
I don't think anyone is claiming she isn't.
Nancy Liebermann said she would have punched Carter in the face fwiw.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 05, 2024, 09:52:54 PM
Nancy Liebermann said she would have punched Carter in the face fwiw.
Silly. That's how old people talk nowadays.
https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2024/6/5/24172579/chennedy-carter-harassed-road-chicago-sky-wnba-caitlin-clark-foul
Which one of you weirdos did this
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 05, 2024, 06:43:43 PM
I am sure the men are glad they don't play in the WNBA. Way too brutal of a sport.
Don't assume gender
Quote from: Jockey on June 05, 2024, 10:09:19 PM
Silly. That's how old people talk nowadays.
That's new to me. I didn't know "old people" were so hostile. My grandma isn't at all.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 05, 2024, 10:40:36 PM
That's new to me. I didn't know "old people" were so hostile. My grandma isn't at all.
Hip check her once and see what her response is.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 06, 2024, 03:32:58 AM
Hip check her once and see what her response is.
My grandma is 95 and is in perfect physical and mental shape. No slippage at all. And that's not hyperbole. She brings it every single day and is a beacon for a happy, healthy, and productive life.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 05, 2024, 09:52:54 PM
Nancy Liebermann said she would have punched Carter in the face fwiw.
weekend could take her behind the barn and put a good whoopin on her, just ask cornpop and beat her in pushups too
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 06, 2024, 08:34:23 AM
weekend could take her behind the barn and put a good whoopin on her, just ask cornpop and beat her in pushups too
Zero reason for this.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 05, 2024, 10:10:34 PM
https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2024/6/5/24172579/chennedy-carter-harassed-road-chicago-sky-wnba-caitlin-clark-foul
I guess this kind of thing means the WNBA has finally made it as a viable pro sport. Congrats?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 06, 2024, 08:34:23 AM
weekend could take her behind the barn and put a good whoopin on her, just ask cornpop and beat her in pushups too
Come on man...
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 05, 2024, 10:10:34 PM
https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2024/6/5/24172579/chennedy-carter-harassed-road-chicago-sky-wnba-caitlin-clark-foul
Which one of you weirdos did this
The video that came out of the incident today looks like the description was wildly blown out of proportion...like everything related to anything in the WNBA these days.
But again, in a strange way, this all sort of gives the league even more credibility in a weird way. Its better to be talked about dramatically than to not be thought of at all.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 06, 2024, 08:44:18 AM
Zero reason for this.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 06, 2024, 09:45:02 AM
Come on man...
I hope you both reported him. And yes, if I dropped something like this in a legit thread, I'd hope you report me, too.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 06, 2024, 09:45:02 AM
Come on man...
The video that came out of the incident today looks like the description was wildly blown out of proportion...like everything related to anything in the WNBA these days.
Maybe. The video was released by the alleged harasser and the team is accusing him of editing it. He has since taken it down. Maybe that's the whole video, maybe it's a selection to try to paint a narrative.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 06, 2024, 11:36:45 AM
Maybe. The video was released by the alleged harasser and the team is accusing him of editing it. He has since taken it down. Maybe that's the whole video, maybe it's a selection to try to paint a narrative.
Do I think he was an obnoxious tool and said some possibly offensive/hateful things? Absolutely.
Do I think they were unable to exit the bus because of some imminent safety/blockade? Not really.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 06, 2024, 11:47:48 AM
Do I think he was an obnoxious tool and said some possibly offensive/hateful things? Absolutely.
Do I think they were unable to exit the bus because of some imminent safety/blockade? Not really.
Is the former acceptable?
Either way, it's terrible behavior that shouldn't be tolerated. No need, IMO, to create a hierarchy of idiocy in instances like this.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 06, 2024, 11:47:48 AM
Do I think he was an obnoxious tool and said some possibly offensive/hateful things? Absolutely.
Do I think they were unable to exit the bus because of some imminent safety/blockade? Not really.
Regarding number 2, do you think it's possible that the team directed some of the players to remain on the bus until the situation was handled?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 06, 2024, 11:58:26 AM
Is the former acceptable?
Either way, it's terrible behavior that shouldn't be tolerated. No need, IMO, to create a hierarchy of idiocy in instances like this.
Not at all. Its still abhorrent. But I think its still a worthwhile distinction between imminent physical danger and loudmouth POS with a camera. If nothing else than to prevent people from excusing away the former cause the reaction made it seem like more danger.
If someone calls me a profanity in my face at Target for not moving out of the way, its gross and unacceptable. If I make it seem like a harrowing violent encounter, some people will be inclined to think im a dramatic exaggerator for some reason or another. That doesn't suddenly excuse the behavior, but it can easily deflect from a very real concern/complaint.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 06, 2024, 12:18:17 PM
Regarding number 2, do you think it's possible that the team directed some of the players to remain on the bus until the situation was handled?
Quite possibly. But again, the "Couldn't even get off the bus!!" "Thank GOD security was there" made it seem really intense as opposed to a loser being quickly dealt with like the Sky's GM spoke to.
But again, like I said, net net, this crazy ongoing dramatic media cycle is actually all very good for the W
Quote from: JWags85 on June 06, 2024, 11:47:48 AM
Do I think he was an obnoxious tool and said some possibly offensive/hateful things? Absolutely.
Do I think they were unable to exit the bus because of some imminent safety/blockade? Not really.
You sound pretty confident that an aggressive stranger is always unarmed.
Quote from: MU82 on June 06, 2024, 09:56:06 AM
I hope you both reported him. And yes, if I dropped something like this in a legit thread, I'd hope you report me, too.
ohhh puhleeeze 82. some of the innuendo you continue to use makes this ONE look like child's play. ya wanna start playing this game...to the thread shutdown champ who should have countless more by these standards
Quote from: JWags85 on June 06, 2024, 12:43:27 PM
Not at all. Its still abhorrent. But I think its still a worthwhile distinction between imminent physical danger and loudmouth POS with a camera. If nothing else than to prevent people from excusing away the former cause the reaction made it seem like more danger.
If someone calls me a profanity in my face at Target for not moving out of the way, its gross and unacceptable. If I make it seem like a harrowing violent encounter, some people will be inclined to think im a dramatic exaggerator for some reason or another. That doesn't suddenly excuse the behavior, but it can easily deflect from a very real concern/complaint.
Quite possibly. But again, the "Couldn't even get off the bus!!" "Thank GOD security was there" made it seem really intense as opposed to a loser being quickly dealt with like the Sky's GM spoke to.
But again, like I said, net net, this crazy ongoing dramatic media cycle is actually all very good for the W
I'll be honest, you read it a lot different than i did. Nothing they said led me to believe they were in "imminent physical danger". Just that there was a nutjob with a camera mouthing off at Carter. Id be thanking god for security too
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 06, 2024, 05:04:37 PM
ohhh puhleeeze 82. some of the innuendo you continue to use makes this ONE look like child's play. ya wanna start playing this game...to the thread shutdown champ who should have countless more by these standards
😂
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 06, 2024, 05:04:37 PM
ohhh puhleeeze 82. some of the innuendo you continue to use makes this ONE look like child's play. ya wanna start playing this game...to the thread shutdown champ who should have countless more by these standards
Please point out my political comments in basketball threads. Thanks.
And because you have trouble reading, I'll repeat: If I dropped something like this in a legit thread, I'd hope you report me, too.
It's absolutely hilarious how people who have watched fewer than 5 WNBA games in the last few years year (and none that don't include the Indiana Fever) believe they have something to add to a discussion of who belongs on Team USA for Paris. I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea whatsoever who the top 12 women's players in the country are. USA Basketball's number one priority should be Olympic Gold. Maybe Clark belongs on the team -- I honestly don't know -- but not because she's popular or because it would be "good for the WNBA or women's basketball."
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 11, 2024, 09:28:02 AM
It's absolutely hilarious how people who have watched fewer than 5 WNBA games in the last few years year (and none that don't include the Indiana Fever) believe they have something to add to a discussion of who belongs on Team USA for Paris. I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea whatsoever who the top 12 women's players in the country are. USA Basketball's number one priority should be Olympic Gold. Maybe Clark belongs on the team -- I honestly don't know -- but not because she's popular or because it would be "good for the WNBA or women's basketball."
I can actually see both arguments. And by that I mean the legit reasonable arguments not the "CC isn't that good, she's just white" nonsense or the "CC is the GOAT and she's being unfairly maligned" BS.
Do I think there is an argument that can be made that including her on the team to capitalize on the interest she's brought to the WNBA and womens BB in general? Absolutely. Yes the USA's priority is Gold, but they've won the last 7 Golds and won every knockout stage game in 2020 by 15+ points. Regardless of CC vs whoever she would replace, they are going to steamroll the tournament yet again.
Honestly, the best and most undeniable argument to keep her off is exhaustion. The college season goes RIGHT into the WNBA and she's been playing basically nonstop for 9 months. She doesn't need the extra travel and games right now. I think its VERY possible that if this was happening in summer 2025 she'd be a very likely choice, but not right now.
They should put the best team together and don't think whatsoever about building the WNBA's brand or women's basketball as part of this. Wags, I do think the issue of lack of significant off-time is one to consider as well.
I have no idea if she's one of the best 12 players in the country, but it SHOULD be a non-story that she was left off. She's probably right on the fringe.
Personally I would have rather seen Ogunbowale get a spot before Clark. And the fatigue concerns are real.
She is the most popular basketball player in the world right now. So it's definitely a story.
Reasonable arguments can be made for putting her on the team and for leaving her off the team. I'd have had no qualms either way.
I think she also missed the main training camp due to being in the Final Four, so there is that angle as well. I don't really see an issue with her not being on the team. I assumed it was largely due to the amount of basketball she's played in a short period of time.
Quote from: MU82 on June 11, 2024, 12:30:15 PM
She is the most popular basketball player in the world right now. So it's definitely a story.
Reasonable arguments can be made for putting her on the team and for leaving her off the team. I'd have had no qualms either way.
I think this is a reasonable take.
Should be all merit imo and on that basis she (again my opinion) falls short.But she is the most popular player on the planet and a lot more people would watch if she was on the team. And (I think) Magic Johnson made the dream team after he retired and rookie Christian Laettner was also on that team.
Either way, ok with me.
i believe if they really wanted to choose caitlin-note key word-WANTED, they could have made room for her by removing taurasi or chelsea gray who hasn't played a game all season due to injury from last years finals.
clark is the most popular player in the nation if not the world right now. she's filling up arenas 4-5 times the size they would otherwise fill
They don't have to worry about filling arenas in the Olympics.
Anyway, if Gray can't go, they can sub her out at some point before the games begin. They don't start for six weeks.
I'd rather have women with international experience.
Quote from: Jockey on June 11, 2024, 02:42:37 PM
I'd rather have women with international experience.
Not an argument for putting her on the team, but Clark has represented the U.S. in several FIBA tournaments.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 11, 2024, 01:36:59 PM
I think this is a reasonable take.
Should be all merit imo and on that basis she (again my opinion) falls short.But she is the most popular player on the planet and a lot more people would watch if she was on the team. And (I think) Magic Johnson made the dream team after he retired and rookie Christian Laettner was also on that team.
Either way, ok with me.
Yep. One could make a pretty strong argument that Magic, Bird and obviously Laettner were not among the 12 best players in America in the summer of 1992.
Magic was only retired due to his HIV diagnosis. He had made the All NBA team the last year he played. Bird...yeah he clearly was done by that time. I guess maybe they could have gone with 'Nique instead? But I think if they took Johnson, they were taking Bird.
Laettner was only added because people wanted a college guy on there. Which was strange then and only stranger in retrospect.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 11, 2024, 03:23:17 PM
Magic was only retired due to his HIV diagnosis. He had made the All NBA team the last year he played. Bird...yeah he clearly was done by that time. I guess maybe they could have gone with 'Nique instead? But I think if they took Johnson, they were taking Bird.
Laettner was only added because people wanted a college guy on there. Which was strange then and only stranger in retrospect.
Larry probably was an honorary selection, but he was still a quality player. The season before the Olympics, he averaged 20.2/9.6/6.8 and was 14th in MVP voting. He was top 15 in player efficiency rating and win shares/per 48, and his true shooting, rebounding and assist percentages were all in the neighborhood of his career averages. Far from the guy he was 6-7 years earlier, but not a complete charity case.
I have no opinion on whether she should be on the team or not because I am largely ignorant about the other players. I was having an conversation with someone who was completely up in arms about Clark being "snubbed" and during the conversation it was absolutely clear that she had not even heard of most of the players on the team. Literally had never even heard of A'ja Wilson, yet had on opinion that Clark should have made the team based on talent. She was very annoyed by my refusal to take a position on the subject because I simply had no idea whether Clark deserved a spot.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 11, 2024, 11:33:49 AM
I can actually see both arguments.
I absolutely understand the argument that she should be on the team because it will advance the game and draw viewers. I disagree with it, but I do understand it. What I'm specifically commenting on is people who have absolutely no idea where CC stands in comparison to other players in the WBNA talent-wise, but are insistent that she deserved a spot on the team based on talent. I have little doubt that she'll probably win an Olympic medal or two (or three...) before she's done.
Yep. It's like people who are outraged that so-and-so didn't make first-time All-Pro. But then ask who that person should have replaced, and it's "uh ... I don't know."
And that goes double for the WNBA, because a whole lot of folks became fans about 11 seconds ago.
This year's men's team has a head scratcher too. Hoe is Jalen Brunson not on it instead of Jrue Holiday?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 11, 2024, 06:40:43 PM
This year's men's team has a head scratcher too. Hoe is Jalen Brunson not on it instead of Jrue Holiday?
Didn't Brunson get hurt in the Pacers series?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 11, 2024, 06:40:43 PM
This year's men's team has a head scratcher too. Hoe is Jalen Brunson not on it instead of Jrue Holiday?
Because Jrue was one of their 3 best players when they won a gold medal in 2021.
If I want to win a title, give me Jrue over a handful of guys on the roster. To win a scoring title? No. Even win regular season games? Probably not. But to win a title? Yup.
Probably will be their best perimeter defender.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 11, 2024, 06:41:20 PM
Didn't Brunson get hurt in the Pacers series?
Yea he broke his hand less than a month ago and needed surgery. Expecting him to be healed for the Olympics, much less in game form/not rusty, is unlikely.
Quote from: MU82 on June 11, 2024, 12:30:15 PM
She is the most popular basketball player in the world right now. So it's definitely a story.
Reasonable arguments can be made for putting her on the team and for leaving her off the team. I'd have had no qualms either way.
Agreed. I meant her getting "snubbed" should not be a story. Close call that could have gone either way.
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/40378767/sky-fever-angel-reese-caitlin-clark-tops-wnba-ratings
I thought the disgusting act of violence that went without retaliation in the first Sky vs. Fever matchup ended the WNBA for good.
Fox News guy: "Caitlin Clark is the Jackie Robinson of the WNBA."
Jason Whitlock: "Actually, Caitlin Clark has it harder than Jackie Robinson."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-declares-caitlin-clark-the-jackie-robinson-of-the-wnba-after-hard-foul
https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2024-05-29-jason-whitlock-why-caitlin-clarks-path-is-harder-than-jackie-robinsons/
Quote from: Pakuni on June 18, 2024, 03:30:23 PM
Fox News guy: "Caitlin Clark is the Jackie Robinson of the WNBA."
Jason Whitlock: "Actually, Caitlin Clark has it harder than Jackie Robinson."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-declares-caitlin-clark-the-jackie-robinson-of-the-wnba-after-hard-foul
https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2024-05-29-jason-whitlock-why-caitlin-clarks-path-is-harder-than-jackie-robinsons/
That's some good ass griftin'
Whitlock has been a white, southern racist for a long time.
Quote from: Jockey on June 18, 2024, 03:36:56 PM
Whitlock has been a white, southern racist for a long time.
Nah.
He's just an opportunist who recognized that there is a lucrative market for black people who say the things that white racists want to but can't without facing social consequences.
See also: Candace Owens.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 18, 2024, 03:30:23 PM
Fox News guy: "Caitlin Clark is the Jackie Robinson of the WNBA."
Jason Whitlock: "Actually, Caitlin Clark has it harder than Jackie Robinson."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-declares-caitlin-clark-the-jackie-robinson-of-the-wnba-after-hard-foul
https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2024-05-29-jason-whitlock-why-caitlin-clarks-path-is-harder-than-jackie-robinsons/
Caitlin not allowed to stay at the same hotels or eat at the same restaurants?
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 18, 2024, 03:55:50 PM
Caitlin not allowed to stay at the same hotels or eat at the same restaurants?
She has to stay at only the best places. Alone.
The blacks and lesbians are at the Super 8.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 18, 2024, 03:55:50 PM
Caitlin not allowed to stay at the same hotels or eat at the same restaurants?
White and straight is basically that these days.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 18, 2024, 03:52:57 PM
Nah.
He's just an opportunist who recognized that there is a lucrative market for black people who say the things that white racists want to but can't without facing social consequences.
See also: Candace Owens.
I don't care for her, but Candace Owens has always struck me as intelligent and measured (which makes some of her insane takes seem palatable until you actually think about it). Meanwhile, Whitlock just seems some a clumsy ham handed contrarian. I remember people thinking he was a dipshit for years before he leaned fully into his current shtick.
What's with KC producing hot take artists. Whitlock, Nick Wright, there is another I'm forgetting
Quote from: JWags85 on June 19, 2024, 10:34:26 AM
I don't care for her, but Candace Owens has always struck me as intelligent and measured (which makes some of her insane takes seem palatable until you actually think about it). Meanwhile, Whitlock just seems some a clumsy ham handed contrarian. I remember people thinking he was a dipcrap for years before he leaned fully into his current shtick.
What's with KC producing hot take artists. Whitlock, Nick Wright, there is another I'm forgetting
yikes.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 19, 2024, 10:34:26 AM
I don't care for her, but Candace Owens has always struck me as intelligent and measured (which makes some of her insane takes seem palatable until you actually think about it). Meanwhile, Whitlock just seems some a clumsy ham handed contrarian. I remember people thinking he was a dipcrap for years before he leaned fully into his current shtick.
What's with KC producing hot take artists. Whitlock, Nick Wright, there is another I'm forgetting
Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and agree to disagree there. You're a thoughtful individual who has a lot of great insight on this board. But this one probably isn't very grey.
For Candace Owens, Just because someone is articulate doesn't mean they are intelligent. Owens at best is savvy at grifting (to which she even is having trouble with these days).
At worst, someone who anti semitic white nationalist Nick Fuentes says he supports Owens in her "full-fledged war against the Jews" and said, "This is the face of a total Jewish defeat... We f—ing got your back, Candace... They're filth.", is probably not someone I would describe as measured.
She frequently says outlandish easily disproven racist/prejudiced/sexist tropes and then plays the Christian victim card at the pushback. If you ask me it's just about the purest distillation of a cynical person.
But you are right that Whitlock is a bumbling moron
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 19, 2024, 01:32:10 PM
Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and agree to disagree there. You're a thoughtful individual who has a lot of great insight on this board. But this one probably isn't very grey.
For Candace Owens, Just because someone is articulate doesn't mean they are intelligent. Owens at best is savvy at grifting (to which she even is having trouble with these days).
At worst, someone who anti semitic white nationalist Nick Fuentes says he supports Owens in her "full-fledged war against the Jews" and said, "This is the face of a total Jewish defeat... We f—ing got your back, Candace... They're filth.", is probably not someone I would describe as measured.
She frequently says outlandish easily disproven racist/prejudiced/sexist tropes and then plays the Christian victim card at the pushback. If you ask me it's just about the purest distillation of a cynical person.
But you are right that Whitlock is a bumbling moron
Upon further review, "measured" was a terrible word choice. I meant more that she's the other side of an absolute moron like Fuentes. I don't think her stances are measured or reasonable, I just had previously thought her delivery represented a more intelligent person than the rest of her ilk. But you're right, she's lost the plot a bit there.
And I'm firmly of the belief that there are plenty of very intelligent grifters or lunatic fringe scumbags. I don't have to think someone is a low intellect fool to recognize they are wrong, morally bankrupt, or dangerous...though many people seem to need to as a way to automatically invalidate something, which I think is silly or unnecessary.
According to tonight's ION Network announcers, the previous all-time high attendance for an Atlanta WNBA game was about 11K. Tonight's attendance vs the Fever: 17,575.
Quote from: MU82 on June 21, 2024, 08:16:37 PM
According to tonight's ION Network announcers, the previous all-time high attendance for an Atlanta WNBA game was about 11K. Tonight's attendance vs the Fever: 17,575.
Tiger-Esque
I really do hope that Clark and Reese end up on the same team at some point. That would be fun to watch.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 24, 2024, 08:29:14 AM
I really do hope that Clark and Reese end up on the same team at some point. That would be fun to watch.
As one who loves a great rivalry, I hope the opposite!
Quote from: MU82 on June 24, 2024, 08:32:06 AM
As one who loves a great rivalry, I hope the opposite!
Absolutely. I'll enjoy the great rivalry for a good long time. But I think it would be very funny to see them have to come to grips with playing together.
They'll be playing together on Team USA for years to come.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 24, 2024, 08:33:18 AM
Absolutely. I'll enjoy the great rivalry for a good long time. But I think it would be very funny to see them have to come to grips with playing together.
Understood. Kind of the way Jordan/Pippen had to come to grips with being Rodman's teammate. That worked out pretty well for all parties.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 24, 2024, 08:39:24 AM
They'll be playing together on Team USA for years to come.
I'm sure you're right.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 24, 2024, 08:33:18 AM
Absolutely. I'll enjoy the great rivalry for a good long time. But I think it would be very funny to see them have to come to grips with playing together.
The most amusing thing about the Reese/Clark rivalry, to me, is the MASSIVE difference in the aesthetics of their games. Rodman is a pretty good comp for Reese cause its really ugly basketball, but she's incredibly effective. Her shockingly low FG% for a post player is because she literally just chucks the ball up at the rim half the time (which is really amusing in some of the slow-mo replays for And-1s and such). Meanwhile Clark has the flashy Steph Curry logo 3s and whipped passes all over the floor that is much more reminiscent of the NBA.
Much has been made of the racial components and way the two handle" themselves, but I think there is a really real aspect of Clark (and others like Bueckers, JuJu at USC, even Mitchell on the Fever) playing the style of basketball casual fans are used to seeing in the NBA/MBB whereas Reese plays a style (under the rim, lots of close misses, not overly athletic) that invites the criticisms the WNBA has been fighting for years. Its not Reese's fault, it just is what it is.
The Sky-Fever game was actually great for about 80% of it, but then the final 2 min was BRUTAL and everything haters embrace. In a 1 possession game, about 8 missed shots under 2 feet (none were blocks), an airball 3, and a potential GW jumper from one of the league's young stars that bricked about 1 foot wide of the rim. Does that happen in the NBA? Of course. But it still looks like freak athletes missing shots instead of more like some of the ugly games you'd see at a rec center.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 24, 2024, 09:53:35 AM
The most amusing thing about the Reese/Clark rivalry, to me, is the MASSIVE difference in the aesthetics of their games. Rodman is a pretty good comp for Reese cause its really ugly basketball, but she's incredibly effective. Her shockingly low FG% for a post player is because she literally just chucks the ball up at the rim half the time (which is really amusing in some of the slow-mo replays for And-1s and such). Meanwhile Clark has the flashy Steph Curry logo 3s and whipped passes all over the floor that is much more reminiscent of the NBA.
Much has been made of the racial components and way the two handle" themselves, but I think there is a really real aspect of Clark (and others like Bueckers, JuJu at USC, even Mitchell on the Fever) playing the style of basketball casual fans are used to seeing in the NBA/MBB whereas Reese plays a style (under the rim, lots of close misses, not overly athletic) that invites the criticisms the WNBA has been fighting for years. Its not Reese's fault, it just is what it is.
The Sky-Fever game was actually great for about 80% of it, but then the final 2 min was BRUTAL and everything haters embrace. In a 1 possession game, about 8 missed shots under 2 feet (none were blocks), an airball 3, and a potential GW jumper from one of the league's young stars that bricked about 1 foot wide of the rim. Does that happen in the NBA? Of course. But it still looks like freak athletes missing shots instead of more like some of the ugly games you'd see at a rec center.
People who want to compare Clark with Pistol Pete, women's college basketball to men's and the NBA to the WNBA are doing the women a great disservice. They are two very different versions of the same sport, but the WNBA will never be the NBA and to sell the public on it being comparable are not helping the women.
Would you sell a Snoop Dogg concert to a fan of the Rolling Stones as being comparable music? Both are great (IMO), but different.
The Athletic reports that tonight's Aces at Sky game is sold out, and tickets are going for $100+ on the secondary market.
It's not only Caitlin Clark's games, though The Clark Effect is felt throughout the league.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2024, 06:45:04 AM
The Athletic reports that tonight's Aces at Sky game is sold out, and tickets are going for $100+ on the secondary market.
It's not only Caitlin Clark's games, though The Clark Effect is felt throughout the league.
I compared her to Tiger earlier in this thread as to her effect on the sport. But this may be more than that.
Tiger lifted a sport (and the purses) that was already popular to unforeseen heights. Caitlin is lifting a sport with very little following to a place it never could have even imagined.
Quote from: Jockey on June 27, 2024, 08:52:17 AM
I compared her to Tiger earlier in this thread as to her effect on the sport. But this may be more than that.
Tiger lifted a sport (and the purses) that was already popular to unforeseen heights. Caitlin is lifting a sport with very little following to a place it never could have even imagined.
Reasonable.
Just like Tiger, she eventually (and perhaps quite soon - a year or 2 max) will have to show she justifies this kind of talk.
If Tiger had flamed out like Spieth did, or if he turned out to be never more than, say, Notah Begay, the Tiger Effect would have died out.
Clark needs to live up to the hype.
Just think what she could accomplish if she wasn't being demonized by black lesbians.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 27, 2024, 09:54:36 AM
Just think what she could accomplish if she wasn't being demonized by black lesbians.
Ain't that part of the appeal? :)
(For the roqqets of the world, it probably is.)
Exciting, physical game between the Fever and Mercury. Indiana won at the end, its first victory over a team with an above-.500 record.
Clark didn't shoot well but was 1 rebound shy of a triple-double. Taurasi, who famously warned Clark that "reality is coming" after Clark was drafted #1, finished with 19. They didn't get into it at all, but there were a couple of skirmishes and flagrant fouls involving other players.
https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1807904278973239504?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 01, 2024, 07:18:37 PM
https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1807904278973239504?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Her teammates must've woken up and started fighting back for the hand that is making them all rich.
I like what the WNBA is doing as an All-Star Game format this season - the WNBA All-Star Team vs. the U.S. Olympic Women's Basketball Team.
Also, both Clark and Reese made the All-Star Team, so that's fun.
19 points (despite 3-12 from 3), 13 assists, 12 rebounds for Caitlin Clark in Indiana's upset over NY. First rookie with triple-double in WNBA history.
Meanwhile, Angel Reese has had double-doubles (points-rebounds) in 12 straight games, tying Candace Parker's league record.
Two damn good rookies!
Biggest home crowd ever for the Minnesota Lynx. First $1 million gate in franchise history, too, according to the Minneapolis newspaper.
All because of the obvious reason.
Caitlin Clark says, "You're Welcome!"
From The Athletic:
The WNBA's next national media rights package has come into shape. The league is set to receive roughly $2.2 billion over the next 11 years in rights fees in its new deals — an average of $200 million a year — with an opening to earn more over that period, according to league sources briefed on the contracts.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5642386/2024/07/16/wnba-media-rights-deal-negotiations/
The current deal pays the league about $50M annually, so the new deal will be worth 4-6 times that, depending on potential additional broadcast partners.
Players are about to get significant raises. It will be interesting to see those developments.
Quote from: MU82 on July 17, 2024, 06:44:24 AM
Caitlin Clark says, "You're Welcome!"
From The Athletic:
The WNBA's next national media rights package has come into shape. The league is set to receive roughly $2.2 billion over the next 11 years in rights fees in its new deals — an average of $200 million a year — with an opening to earn more over that period, according to league sources briefed on the contracts.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5642386/2024/07/16/wnba-media-rights-deal-negotiations/
The current deal pays the league about $50M annually, so the new deal will be worth 4-6 times that, depending on potential additional broadcast partners.
Players are about to get significant raises. It will be interesting to see those developments.
There is an article on the growing popularity of the WNBA in the latest
Rolling Stone.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-sports/wnba-womens-basketball-olympics-1235030924/
The players/teams just started riding charter jets to games. Previously, the league made players fly commercial air like the rest of the world.
Quote from: Jockey on June 27, 2024, 10:30:20 AM
Ain't that part of the appeal? :)
(For the roqqets of the world, it probably is.)
you keep forgetting jockstrap, i'm color blind unlike you guys...character matters-try it some time
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 17, 2024, 08:29:12 AM
you keep forgetting jockstrap, i'm color blind unlike you guys...character matters-try it some time
Huh.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 17, 2024, 08:29:12 AM
you keep forgetting jockstrap, i'm color blind unlike you guys...character matters-try it some time
For you? No, it doesn't. At all. You've proven that on a daily basis. So, either you're a liar or just plain stupid. Probably both.
Fercrissake, can all of you please keep the personal insults out of every friggin' thread you jump into? Rather than ban insults and politics, maybe Rocky needs to start a single thread for those things and then resolutely police it everywhere else.
WNBA about to quadruple its media rights contract.
The WNBA's next national media rights package has come into shape. The league is set to receive roughly $2.2 billion over the next 11 years in rights fees in its new deals — an average of $200 million a year — with an opening to earn more over that period, according to league sources briefed on the contracts.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5642386/2024/07/16/wnba-media-rights-deal-negotiations/#?redirected=1
Quote from: Pakuni on July 17, 2024, 02:43:40 PM
WNBA about to quadruple its media rights contract.
The WNBA's next national media rights package has come into shape. The league is set to receive roughly $2.2 billion over the next 11 years in rights fees in its new deals — an average of $200 million a year — with an opening to earn more over that period, according to league sources briefed on the contracts.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5642386/2024/07/16/wnba-media-rights-deal-negotiations/#?redirected=1
Terrible news for Clay Travis and Willie
Clark is doing just fine.
The WNBA got it right with its All-Star Game, which will be played tomorrow night. It will be the U.S. Olympic team vs. a team of WNBA All-Stars who didn't make the Olympic roster. In other words, the chosen vs. the snubbed. There are some bad feelings, and - unlike every other all-star game - is set up to be highly competitive.
One of the interesting little storylines (from The Athletic): DeWanna Bonner (Team WNBA) and Alyssa Thomas (Team USA) will play against each other. The two are engaged and are teammates on the Connecticut Sun.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 17, 2024, 02:43:40 PM
WNBA about to quadruple its media rights contract.
The WNBA's next national media rights package has come into shape. The league is set to receive roughly $2.2 billion over the next 11 years in rights fees in its new deals — an average of $200 million a year — with an opening to earn more over that period, according to league sources briefed on the contracts.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5642386/2024/07/16/wnba-media-rights-deal-negotiations/#?redirected=1
Amazing what one little white girl can accomplish. There have been many other better players who never moved the neddle even a little bit.
Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2024, 01:03:49 PM
Amazing what one little white girl can accomplish.
Good lord.
Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2024, 01:03:49 PM
Amazing what one little white girl can accomplish. There have been many other better players who never moved the neddle even a little bit.
She scored more points than Pistol Pete. People love offense. There were far better baseball players than McGuire and Sosa but they drove unprecedented TV numbers for their time because people love watching dingers
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 19, 2024, 01:45:10 PM
She scored more points than Pistol Pete. People love offense. There were far better baseball players than McGuire and Sosa but they drove unprecedented TV numbers for their time because people love watching dingers
I partially agree, but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. leading all time scorers didn't move the needle even a speck. As a matter of fact, I doubt anyone here could name even 2 of the top 10 all time scorers.
I'll also say I think it was the media - much more than fans that hinted at a racial narrative. The media made Angel Reese a thug. When Caitlin is fouled hard, it is the media that drives the black picking on white narrative.
There is a long history of the media doing this going back to Imus calling the Rutger's black players ho's.
Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2024, 02:20:45 PM
I partially agree, but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. leading all time scorers didn't move the needle even a speck. As a matter of fact, I doubt anyone here could name even 2 of the top 10 all time scorers.
I'll also say I think it was the media - much more than fans that hinted at a racial narrative. The media made Angel Reese a thug. When Caitlin is fouled hard, it is the media that drives the black picking on white narrative.
There is a long history of the media doing this going back to Imus calling the Rutger's black players ho's.
You sure get triggered easily
Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2024, 02:20:45 PM
I partially agree, but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. leading all time scorers didn't move the needle even a speck. As a matter of fact, I doubt anyone here could name even 2 of the top 10 all time scorers.
The #2 all time is arguably one of the top 5 stars of the WNBA, Kelsey Plum...who is also a "little white girl" from a wealthy San Diego suburb and is very attractive, so.... But her Washington teams weren't great. They had miracle FF run when she was a junior after a middling year, but then not much as a senior.
#3 played at a mid major and then mediocre WNIT bound Syracuse teams.
#4 is Clark's teammate, Mitchell, who was on very good but not title contending OSU teams. Mitchell scored a bunch but wasn't even a first team AA her final 2 years, much less NPOY.
Clark took her team to an unexpected S16 as a freshman, while being 1st team All-Big 10 and NFOY. Then was first team AA 3 years in a row. Her junior year when she was getting buzz, Iowa made the run to the championship game. Then as reigning NPOY, she went to even higher levels.
Has there been racial grifters on both sides going crazy since she got drafted? Of course. But Iowa wasn't drawing record crowds every game and huge tv ratings cause of raycessss people. It was a generational talent who backed up every accolade and bit of buzz while playing an extremely aesthetically brand of basketball that was nothing like what people negatively criticize the women's game for.
The people that cling to the racial aspects of Clark and her appeal don't really care about women's basketball or the growth of the women's game, including "old school" WNBA fans who gatekeep new fans cause they weren't there from the start
Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2024, 02:20:45 PM
I partially agree, but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. leading all time scorers didn't move the needle even a speck. As a matter of fact, I doubt anyone here could name even 2 of the top 10 all time scorers.
I'll also say I think it was the media - much more than fans that hinted at a racial narrative. The media made Angel Reese a thug. When Caitlin is fouled hard, it is the media that drives the black picking on white narrative.
There is a long history of the media doing this going back to Imus calling the Rutger's black players ho's.
Don't get me wrong, there have been gross racial narratives especially since she made the WNBA. But she also is #1 on the list, went to back to back national championships, and is the only one on that list consistently hitting threes from the logo (which is arguably the coolest way to score in the WNBA). The hype is earned. The racial baggage that comes with it is unfortunate
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 19, 2024, 04:09:43 PM
Don't get me wrong, there have been gross racial narratives especially since she made the WNBA. But she also is #1 on the list, went to back to back national championships, and is the only one on that list consistently hitting threes from the logo (which is arguably the coolest way to score in the WNBA). The hype is earned. The racial baggage that comes with it is unfortunate
Yep.
That was fun. The best ASG in any sport in years.
Does Caitlin hold the distinction of being the first athlete to be face guarded for the entirety of an all star game? Genuinely hilarious
Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2024, 01:03:49 PM
Amazing what one little white girl can accomplish. There have been many other better players who never moved the neddle even a little bit.
and who's the racist?? DEI has warped your brain too i see
Just took a look at the upcoming WNBA schedule on ESPN.com.
Among other things, it shows that tickets for tonight's game in Atlanta vs. Phoenix can be bought for as low as $9 ... tickets for Friday's game in Atlanta also vs. Phoenix can be bought for as low as $36 ... and tickets for Monday's game in Atlanta vs. Indiana can be bought for as low as $296.
Quote from: MU82 on August 21, 2024, 08:57:41 AM
Just took a look at the upcoming WNBA schedule on ESPN.com.
Among other things, it shows that tickets for tonight's game in Atlanta vs. Phoenix can be bought for as low as $9 ... tickets for Friday's game in Atlanta also vs. Phoenix can be bought for as low as $36 ... and tickets for Monday's game in Atlanta vs. Indiana can be bought for as low as $296.
See the prices for Indiana/Chicago-
https://www.vividseats.com/chicago-sky-tickets-wintrust-arena-8-30-2024--sports-wnba/production/4738978?showDetails=VB10483082434&groupId=&qty=1 (https://www.vividseats.com/chicago-sky-tickets-wintrust-arena-8-30-2024--sports-wnba/production/4738978?showDetails=VB10483082434&groupId=&qty=1)
14K for floor tickets
Angel Reese shows up in a Rodman Bad Boys era Pistons jersey. I guess I see what she was trying to do but a real weird choice in Chicago...but then they proceed to get SMOKED by the Fever and Clark going off for a career high 31 on a super efficient 14 shots plus 12 assists.
Meanwhile Reese had 5 points with 4 min left and was out chasing a double double down 20+ while the Fever had their starters out.
Pretty emphatic slamming shut that discussion
Got to experience the Caitlin Clark effect in person for the first time. My father in law is visiting this weekend. He asked me to turn on the Fever game. I was pleasantly surprised given some previous conversations we have had previously. Plus, we don't have much in common but a game on the TV gives us something to talk about. The next hour was a near non-stop rant about how Clark was as good as Jordan, that the WNBA would be bankrupt without her, that the "Black lesbos" have it out for her, and that the "thugs" should be thanking Clark for all the money she is making for the WNBA. He also impressed by knowing one of Clark's teammates by name (naturally, it was Lexie Hull). The rest of Clark's teammates were named "that Black girl with *insert identifying feature here*"
Clark is a generational talent who deserves every bit of praise she's given. But there have been some really weird side effects that I was not anticipating.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 31, 2024, 12:29:21 AM
Got to experience the Caitlin Clark effect in person for the first time. My father in law is visiting this weekend. He asked me to turn on the Fever game. I was pleasantly surprised given some previous conversations we have had previously. Plus, we don't have much in common but a game on the TV gives us something to talk about. The next hour was a near non-stop rant about how Clark was as good as Jordan, that the WNBA would be bankrupt without her, that the "Black lesbos" have it out for her, and that the "thugs" should be thanking Clark for all the money she is making for the WNBA. He also impressed by knowing one of Clark's teammates by name (naturally, it was Lexie Hull). The rest of Clark's teammates were named "that Black girl with *insert identifying feature here*"
Clark is a generational talent who deserves every bit of praise she's given. But there have been some really weird side effects that I was not anticipating.
My 82-year old mother is convinced that Angel Reese is a man and is therefore responsible for ruining sports.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 31, 2024, 12:29:21 AM
Got to experience the Caitlin Clark effect in person for the first time. My father in law is visiting this weekend. He asked me to turn on the Fever game. I was pleasantly surprised given some previous conversations we have had previously. Plus, we don't have much in common but a game on the TV gives us something to talk about. The next hour was a near non-stop rant about how Clark was as good as Jordan, that the WNBA would be bankrupt without her, that the "Black lesbos" have it out for her, and that the "thugs" should be thanking Clark for all the money she is making for the WNBA. He also impressed by knowing one of Clark's teammates by name (naturally, it was Lexie Hull). The rest of Clark's teammates were named "that Black girl with *insert identifying feature here*"
Clark is a generational talent who deserves every bit of praise she's given. But there have been some really weird side effects that I was not anticipating.
Ugh. Sounds like all too many of the social media posts I've read.
And sorry that you have an FIL who is such a bigot, TAMU. That must be difficult for you to deal with.
Caitlin Clark is having an amazing rookie season - better even than most thought she could have - and she's been especially good since the long Olympic break. She should be the unanimous choice for ROY, and should get plenty of MVP votes (but won't win the award, nor should she).
She is on pace to set the league assist record, has recorded the only two triple-doubles ever by a WNBA rookie, and is shooting close to 50-40-90 since the break.
And here's a great stat from Yahoo Sports:
Most games with 20 points and 10 assists in WNBA history:
Courtney Vandersloot: 10 (422 games played)
Diana Taurasi: 9 (559 games played)
Caitlin Clark: 7 (34 games played)
She does already have the league record for turnovers in a season, but that's a pretty small quibble given all of her positives and given how much time she spends with the basketball in her hands.
Clark's backcourt partner, Kelsey Mitchell, might be the fastest player in the league and is a dynamic scorer on every level. Her high-arching 3s remind me of Kam's. She's the league's #2 scorer since the Olympic break, and there hasn't been a better backcourt than Mitchell/Clark. Really fun to watch.
Not getting picked for Team USA might have been the best thing for Clark, Mitchell and the other Indiana players. The Fever looked fresh right out of the break and have been outstanding, while other teams seemed tired, especially the first couple weeks after returning. Indiana has been the league's hottest team, and just clinched its first playoff berth since 2016.
Quote from: MU82 on September 05, 2024, 07:19:43 AM
Caitlin Clark is having an amazing rookie season - better even than most thought she could have - and she's been especially good since the long Olympic break. She should be the unanimous choice for ROY, and should get plenty of MVP votes (but won't win the award, nor should she).
She is on pace to set the league assist record, has recorded the only two triple-doubles ever by a WNBA rookie, and is shooting close to 50-40-90 since the break.
And here's a great stat from Yahoo Sports:
Most games with 20 points and 10 assists in WNBA history:
Courtney Vandersloot: 10 (422 games played)
Diana Taurasi: 9 (559 games played)
Caitlin Clark: 7 (34 games played)
She does already have the league record for turnovers in a season, but that's a pretty small quibble given all of her positives and given how much time she spends with the basketball in her hands.
Clark's backcourt partner, Kelsey Mitchell, might be the fastest player in the league and is a dynamic scorer on every level. Her high-arching 3s remind me of Kam's. She's the league's #2 scorer since the Olympic break, and there hasn't been a better backcourt than Mitchell/Clark. Really fun to watch.
Not getting picked for Team USA might have been the best thing for Clark, Mitchell and the other Indiana players. The Fever looked fresh right out of the break and have been outstanding, while other teams seemed tired, especially the first couple weeks after returning. Indiana has been the league's hottest team, and just clinched its first playoff berth since 2016.
Caitlin Clark (other than the Olympics) hasn't really had a break or a full training camp since she left Iowa. It seems to me that you can argue she's already the 2nd best player in the entire league. No one could argue she's not top 5. When you take into account all the hype, her popularity, petty jealousy from other players, hate from some in the media, etc, etc, etc, she handled everything pretty much flawlessly. She's had as big an impact on her sport than anyone I can remember since Tiger Woods.
Yep. Her ability to deliver through intense scrutiny has been impressive.
Quote from: MU82 on September 05, 2024, 09:40:34 AM
Yep. Her ability to deliver through intense scrutiny has been impressive.
Amazing, really. The "she's been playing against 18-year-old girls...she's not prepared to play against experienced professionals" narrative has been left in the dust. I will admit that even though I knew she was an outstanding college player, I expected her to struggle more than she has with the transition to the WNBA. Impressive indeed.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on September 05, 2024, 11:13:06 AM
Amazing, really. The "she's been playing against 18-year-old girls...she's not prepared to play against experienced professionals" narrative has been left in the dust. I will admit that even though I knew she was an outstanding college player, I expected her to struggle more than she has with the transition to the WNBA. Impressive indeed.
There was an adjustment period, to be sure. The Fever had a brutally difficult early-season schedule, and lots of veteran players wanted to put Clark in her place. She had several poor games and Indiana started something like 1-8.
But she figured things out darn quickly, played better, and has been one of the league's 2-3 best players the last month-plus.
Quote from: MU82 on September 05, 2024, 01:49:18 PM
There was an adjustment period, to be sure. The Fever had a brutally difficult early-season schedule, and lots of veteran players wanted to put Clark in her place. She had several poor games and Indiana started something like 1-8.
But she figured things out darn quickly, played better, and has been one of the league's 2-3 best players the last month-plus.
If you're the WNBA leadership how would you maximize their business moving forward? Their playoffs will compete with the NFL and MLB playoffs which isn't ideal. They're also on like 4 different networks. I'm just wondering if they could start in April even with the NBA playoffs? Or maybe February and schedule games around the NCAA tournament?
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 05, 2024, 03:34:47 PM
If you're the WNBA leadership how would you maximize their business moving forward? Their playoffs will compete with the NFL and MLB playoffs which isn't ideal. They're also on like 4 different networks. I'm just wondering if they could start in April even with the NBA playoffs? Or maybe February and schedule games around the NCAA tournament?
I would move it to a regular Fall to Spring basketball league. Most of the teams play in their own arenas now, with some exceptions with teams that play in the same arena as an NBA team but not a NHL team as well. The only exception is the Sparks in LA. That was the main reason they started out as a summer league anyway.
Furthermore I think their audience is fairly developed now. They will never compete with the NBA, but would consistently draw in the markets they are in.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 05, 2024, 03:45:49 PM
I would move it to a regular Fall to Spring basketball league. Most of the teams play in their own arenas now, with some exceptions with teams that play in the same arena as an NBA team but not a NHL team as well. The only exception is the Sparks in LA. That was the main reason they started out as a summer league anyway.
Furthermore I think their audience is fairly developed now. They will never compete with the NBA, but would consistently draw in the markets they are in.
Are Caitlin Clark's games getting better ratings than regular NBA games?
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 05, 2024, 06:28:45 PM
Are Caitlin Clark's games getting better ratings than regular NBA games?
Many of them yes. Her NCAA games outdrew Men's games.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 05, 2024, 03:34:47 PM
If you're the WNBA leadership how would you maximize their business moving forward? Their playoffs will compete with the NFL and MLB playoffs which isn't ideal. They're also on like 4 different networks. I'm just wondering if they could start in April even with the NBA playoffs? Or maybe February and schedule games around the NCAA tournament?
Maybe experimenting with schedule changes would be good, but who knows? Things seem to be working OK for the WNBA just as they are.
Caitlin Clark signature basketballs sell out in 40 minutes
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/09/11/caitlin-clark-wilson-basketballs-sold-out (https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/09/11/caitlin-clark-wilson-basketballs-sold-out)
Over the weekend, Clark broke the league's all-time assist record and became the WNBA's all-time rookie scorer. She's been especially incredible since the Olympic break.
While A'ja Wilson will (and should) win MVP, Clark will (and should) be top-5.
It's hard to believe the success the WNBA is having at the moment without trying to sell itself with sex like Buffoon Cain thinks golf should do.
Interesting
It's also amazing that Clark overcame the horde of black lesbians trying to injure her. I think it's safe to say, as a white, straight woman, that God is on her side.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 16, 2024, 09:24:47 AM
It's also amazing that Clark overcame the horde of black lesbians trying to injure her. I think it's safe to say, as a white, straight woman, that God is on her side.
Lol. The narratives people come up with are so funny you wouldn't believe they were true.
Some of the same racists who supported Clark only because she is a white heterosexual woman in a league "full" of Black lesbians said they were done supporting her after she liked Taylor Swift's election-endorsement post.
Ratings way up
https://x.com/sarajgamelli/status/1844469293167280449?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Staggering news for Willie
Something That Wouldn't Have Happened Even A Year Ago Dept.:
The NLDS featured two big-market teams ... but the first 10 minutes of Sportscenter last night was all about the WNBA Finals.
It's been a tremendous title series, with each game having big comebacks and close finishes. Last night's Game 3, with Sabrina Ionescu hitting a Rowsey 3 at the buzzer for the Liberty, was a classic.
Quote from: MU82 on October 17, 2024, 10:46:55 AM
Something That Wouldn't Have Happened Even A Year Ago Dept.:
The NLDS featured two big-market teams ... but the first 10 minutes of Sportscenter last night was all about the WNBA Finals.
It's been a tremendous title series, with each game having big comebacks and close finishes. Last night's Game 3, with Sabrina Ionescu hitting a Rowsey 3 at the buzzer for the Liberty, was a classic.
Kaitlin Clark.
Quote from: Jockey on October 17, 2024, 05:25:13 PM
Kaitlin Clark.
Caitlin. And the Caitlin Clark effect is present even when she's not playing. Magic/Bird, MJ, Arnie and Tiger all moved the needle re their sport's popularity a great deal - but Clark is in a league of her own.
From Sports Illustrated:
Here's the truth: Two things are true at the same time.
1. Games featuring Clark performed much better than other contests. That fact applied to her last playoff game with the Fever drawing 2.5 million viewers, as compared to 1.1 million for the first game of the WNBA Finals. Game 1 of the Fever and Sun series was also able to garner 1.8 million viewers in the midst of an NFL Sunday, which was a 330% increase over the 2023 first round game that aired on the same channel.
2. WNBA numbers as a whole are up in general, and the returns for Game 1 were terrific when placed into the context of previous years. The 1.1 million for Game 1 was a massive jump from the 729,000 drawn in the first game between the Liberty and Las Vegas Aces last season. That's an increase of 57%, making it the first WNBA Finals game to top a million viewers in over 20 years.
https://www.si.com/onsi/womens-fastbreak/analysis/the-truth-about-wnba-playoff-ratings-without-caitlin-clark-01ja1g9a7qtt
Since that Oct. 12 article, there have been two more WNBA Finals games. Here's what Front Office Sports said about Game 2 ratings:
The WNBA continues to smash viewership records despite Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever's elimination nearly two weeks ago.
Game 2 of the Finals between the New York Liberty and Minnesota Lynx averaged 1.34 million viewers Sunday at 3 p.m. ET on ABC, the most-viewed WNBA Finals game in 23 years. It was also the second-most-watched WNBA game on ESPN networks, behind Game 3 of the 1998 Finals, a do-or-die elimination game between the Phoenix Mercury and Houston Comets.
The record-setting figure comes despite direct competition from the NFL's Week 6 slate.
https://frontofficesports.com/wnba-finals-tv-ratings-grow-in-game-2-despite-nfl-competition/
And this just in: The audience grew yet again for last night's wonderful Game 3, which averaged 1.39 million viewers. It was the most watched WNBA Finals game in more than 20 years.
https://x.com/VanshayM/status/1847039525932933175?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 17, 2024, 05:49:42 PM
Caitlin. And the Caitlin Clark effect is present even when she's not playing. Magic/Bird, MJ, Arnie and Tiger all moved the needle re their sport's popularity a great deal - but Clark is in a league of her own.
Generally agree, but I think Clark and Tiger should be lumped together. Tiger made a lot of money for a lot of guys. Caitlin will make a lot of money for lots of gals.
Another classic.
And now there will be Game 5.
Quote from: MU82 on October 17, 2024, 10:46:55 AM
Last night's Game 3, with Sabrina Ionescu hitting a Rowsey 3 at the buzzer for the Liberty, was a classic.
#FakeNews #Lies
This didn't happen. Perhaps you didn't watch the game?
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 19, 2024, 10:43:08 AM
#FakeNews #Lies
This didn't happen. Perhaps you didn't watch the game?
ok
Quote from: MU82 on October 19, 2024, 01:42:17 PM
ok
ok = "You're correct, I messed up and also I didn't watch the game I was posting about", yes?
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 20, 2024, 03:19:16 PM
ok = "You're correct, I messed up and also I didn't watch the game I was posting about", yes?
ok. u b u.
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 20, 2024, 04:41:59 PM
You're such a beta. FOH.
Did you take a break from your pickleball weekend to post this?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 20, 2024, 05:31:52 PM
Did you take a break from your pickleball weekend to post this?
Pickleball is alpha, bro.
Quote from: MU82 on October 17, 2024, 10:46:55 AM
Something That Wouldn't Have Happened Even A Year Ago Dept.:
The NLDS featured two big-market teams ... but the first 10 minutes of Sportscenter last night was all about the WNBA Finals.
What network is broadcasting the WNBA games, and what network(s) are showing baseball? That dictates the Sportscenter coverage more than anything else.
Not exactly a riveting 1st half.
What a series. Congrats to the Liberty.
Quote from: MU82 on October 21, 2024, 12:02:25 AM
What a series. Congrats to the Liberty.
Yesterday was not good. There's really no way to spin it. Don't mistake a competitive game/score for a great or entertaining contest. I also think the Lynx coach had a right to be displeased with the officiating. The last foul call on Stewart was quite frankly, absurd.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 21, 2024, 05:34:19 AM
Yesterday was not good. There's really no way to spin it. Don't mistake a competitive game/score for a great or entertaining contest. I also think the Lynx coach had a right to be displeased with the officiating. The last foul call on Stewart was quite frankly, absurd.
When teams shoot poorly, a game always appears "not good," but it was as intense a game as you'll ever see. Viewers who were into it could feel the tension on every single possession. Both teams played with desperation and ferocity. One might even say both were medieval.
If you want to call it "not good," that is your prerogative. I disagree. And the series overall was outstanding, with long-time observers (which I'm not, and I'm guessing you're not, either) calling it the best WNBA Finals ever.
The Lynx got the majority of calls at home. It happens. WNBA officiating is a step below NBA officiating, which has its own problems. Minnesota had a bazillion opportunities to win in regulation last night, as did New York. To focus on one call makes no sense.
Game 7 of the 2016 Finals, the one with the epic Lebron block, was a 93-89 slugfest. It wasn't pretty offensively but it was intense, and capped off what is widely considered to be among the best Finals of all time.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 20, 2024, 05:31:52 PM
Did you take a break from your pickleball weekend to post this?
Took Sunday off from Pickleball. Saturday's tourney went over six hours (we didn't lose all night and won the championship — but it did go to a Dreambreaker to win it all... 21-8!)
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 21, 2024, 05:34:19 AM
Yesterday was not good. There's really no way to spin it. Don't mistake a competitive game/score for a great or entertaining contest. I also think the Lynx coach had a right to be displeased with the officiating. The last foul call on Stewart was quite frankly, absurd.
Wasnt a good call but officiating is far from the biggest challenge the league faces. The coaching league wide is generally horrendous and I didn't think it was good today. It's on the players to make shots, but there were a lot of bad looks in addition to bad shots. When you have a low scoring game, the variance on one play or call gets amplified.
Wait til the fan that only pays attention to the WNBA tunes into the NBA and learns Tony Brothers exists...
Quote from: GB Warrior on October 21, 2024, 12:20:26 PM
Wasnt a good call but officiating is far from the biggest challenge the league faces. The coaching league wide is generally horrendous and I didn't think it was good today. It's on the players to make shots, but there were a lot of bad looks in addition to bad shots. When you have a low scoring game, the variance on one play or call gets amplified.
Wait til the fan that only pays attention to the WNBA tunes into the NBA and learns Tony Brothers exists...
If he were a WNBA ref would he be Tony Sisters
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 21, 2024, 05:34:19 AM
Yesterday was not good. There's really no way to spin it. Don't mistake a competitive game/score for a great or entertaining contest. I also think the Lynx coach had a right to be displeased with the officiating. The last foul call on Stewart was quite frankly, absurd.
The foul call wasn't the most egregious part of that play.
She travelled twice.
Would be interested in the venn diagram of people crapping on the WNBA and those who are on the front lines defending girls youth sports from all the transgenders.
Quote from: jesmu84 on October 21, 2024, 01:29:19 PM
The foul call wasn't the most egregious part of that play.
She travelled twice.
But was fouled before the ball even got thrown in to her.
Quote from: jesmu84 on October 21, 2024, 01:29:19 PM
The foul call wasn't the most egregious part of that play.
She travelled twice.
Excellent point. That was beyond egregious.
The game wasn't well played and good basketball in general.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 21, 2024, 01:39:52 PM
But was fouled before the ball even got thrown in to her.
Yep.
Again, each team had numerous chances to win.
From The Athletic:
The deciding game of the WNBA Finals drew 2.15 million viewers, per ESPN, making it the highest-rated WNBA Finals game in 25 years, up 115 percent over last season's title-clincher. Even more impressive was its Sunday slot, making it the largest WNBA audience to ever have NFL competition on the airwaves. This just speaks to the growth of the entire women's game.
The viewership breakdown of the series was as follows:
Game 1: 1.14 million viewers on ESPN.
Game 2: 1.34 million viewers on ABC.
Game 3: 1.39 million viewers on ESPN.
Game 4: 1.67 million viewers on ESPN.
Game 5: 2.15 million viewers on ESPN
The new president and GM of the Indiana Fever fired coach Christie Sides because they didn't think she could take them to a championship.
https://sports.yahoo.com/indiana-fever-fire-head-coach-christie-sides-after-two-seasons-151018940.html?
I know it was collectively bargained by both unions, but it's kind of ridiculous that Cooper Flagg (who famously is still only 17) will be eligible for the next NBA draft but Juju Watkins (who is 19 and turns 20 in July) won't be eligible to play in the WNBA until at least the 2026-27 season.
One of the many things for the WNBA to change after the current collective bargaining agreement expires next October.
Quote from: MU82 on November 18, 2024, 10:37:22 AMI know it was collectively bargained by both unions, but it's kind of ridiculous that Cooper Flagg (who famously is still only 17) will be eligible for the next NBA draft but Juju Watkins (who is 19 and turns 20 in July) won't be eligible to play in the WNBA until at least the 2026-27 season.
One of the many things for the WNBA to change after the current collective bargaining agreement expires next October.
I wonder how much of a priority it will be with NIL and its impact. Until the WNBA can fund markedly higher salaries, the jump to the WNBA isn't going to bring substantial earnings increases for most underclassmen. Being the big fish in a smaller college pond would likely pay more.
Quote from: MU82 on November 18, 2024, 10:37:22 AMI know it was collectively bargained by both unions, but it's kind of ridiculous that Cooper Flagg (who famously is still only 17) will be eligible for the next NBA draft but Juju Watkins (who is 19 and turns 20 in July) won't be eligible to play in the WNBA until at least the 2026-27 season.
One of the many things for the WNBA to change after the current collective bargaining agreement expires next October.
that could change as more teams are added to the league, but for now, the union wants to protect the veterans.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 18, 2024, 01:24:20 PMI wonder how much of a priority it will be with NIL and its impact. Until the WNBA can fund markedly higher salaries, the jump to the WNBA isn't going to bring substantial earnings increases for most underclassmen. Being the big fish in a smaller college pond would likely pay more.
That's a good point. Juju might be able to make more at USC than she could in the WNBA, even with pro-athlete endorsement opportunities.
Time has named Caitlin Clark its Athlete of the Year because ... of course. She was the only logical choice. It's difficult to believe Sports Illustrated won't also name her its Sportsperson of the Year (unless they purposely try to be contrary).
She excelled, and she did so in a way that captivated fans. She was an indomitable force who greatly enhanced the perception of her entire sport.
I can't think of any other athlete who had anywhere near the impact she did in 2024.
Hard to argue with it. Sell outs wherever she played.
Diana Taurasi retires.
With 6 Olympic gold medals, 3 WNBA titles (2 finals MVPs), 3 NCAA titles and 1 WNBA MVP, there's little doubt that she's the most accomplished women's basketball player ever.
Best ever? There could be arguments for Cheryl Miller, Candace Parker or a couple others ... but Taurasi is certainly in the team photo.
Hard to disagree with Cameron Brink on this one -
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/44296252/cameron-brink-icked-online-reaction-sparks-call-male-practice-players (https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/44296252/cameron-brink-icked-online-reaction-sparks-call-male-practice-players)
I get needing male practice players for WNBA squads, but between the front office, coaches, and players, are they really so hard up for local contacts in LA who played college ball that they need to have open tryouts? Seems incredibly hamfisted.
Quote from: MUBurrow on March 18, 2025, 08:58:40 AMHard to disagree with Cameron Brink on this one -
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/44296252/cameron-brink-icked-online-reaction-sparks-call-male-practice-players (https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/44296252/cameron-brink-icked-online-reaction-sparks-call-male-practice-players)
I get needing male practice players for WNBA squads, but between the front office, coaches, and players, are they really so hard up for local contacts in LA who played college ball that they need to have open tryouts? Seems incredibly hamfisted.
Yeah the vetting process needs to be tightened up, otherwise you might let some dentists through
Quote from: MUBurrow on March 18, 2025, 08:58:40 AMHard to disagree with Cameron Brink on this one -
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/44296252/cameron-brink-icked-online-reaction-sparks-call-male-practice-players (https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/44296252/cameron-brink-icked-online-reaction-sparks-call-male-practice-players)
I get needing male practice players for WNBA squads, but between the front office, coaches, and players, are they really so hard up for local contacts in LA who played college ball that they need to have open tryouts? Seems incredibly hamfisted.
Agreed it is not great, but how do you get quality player? Any professional players may not be available or see any value in the practice.
Maybe a DII men's team? I honestly have no idea what the relative abilities are for this. I believe the US Women's soccer team scrimmages against the U17 men's team but they are not very competitive with them.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 18, 2025, 12:10:57 PMAgreed it is not great, but how do you get quality player? Any professional players may not be available or see any value in the practice.
Maybe a DII men's team? I honestly have no idea what the relative abilities are for this. I believe the US Women's soccer team scrimmages against the U17 men's team but they are not very competitive with them.
I mean, D1 womens teams have a practice squad of mens guys that they scrimmage against, usually pretty good former HS basketball players (you often see them end up as walk-ons on the mens team if injuries stretch them short). So I'd imagine any lower level college player would work fine. I mean, they aren't practicing to beat them, its more to push them against players that are physically stronger and faster than them.
Yeah, my main thought was just that between the 25 people on the roster and coaching staff, plus their connections to colleges and other orgs in the LA area, its pretty tough to believe they couldn't cobble together a dozen decent ball players that at least have some connection and would be pre-vetted by someone affiliated with the team. As opposed to a post on social media that is bound to attract a whole bunch of creepers or meathead types with an axe to grind against womens' ball.
I changed the topic name to reflect that it will be the 2025 WNBA season.
I'll start things off with this:
Caitlin Clark, Fever will have 41 of 44 games nationally broadcast or streamed in 2025
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6219540/2025/03/20/caitlin-clark-fever-wnba-2025-schedule-broadcast/?
Because, of course.
From Axios:
Fans from 29 countries purchased tickets on StubHub ahead of this WNBA season, up from 12 countries in 2024, Axios' Analis Bailey reports.
Ticket sales are up 145% from last season, according to StubHub, and the number of first-time WNBA ticket buyers jumped 28% compared to the same time last year.
I am one of those first-time WNBA ticket buyers, having purchased a mini-plan for the upcoming Seattle Storm season. Looking forward to going to some games!
Quote from: MU82 on March 21, 2025, 11:29:07 AMI changed the topic name to reflect that it will be the 2025 WNBA season.
I'll start things off with this:
Caitlin Clark, Fever will have 41 of 44 games nationally broadcast or streamed in 2025
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6219540/2025/03/20/caitlin-clark-fever-wnba-2025-schedule-broadcast/?
Because, of course.
Her games bring in monster ratings for the W, and higher ratings equal more advertising revenue and more leverage for an increased amount from the next TV deal.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on May 01, 2025, 02:21:28 PMHer games bring in monster ratings for the W, and higher ratings equal more advertising revenue and more leverage for an increased amount from the next TV deal.
Absolutely.
My "of course" was not snarky criticism. It was an acknowledgement.