From The Athletic:
When Marquette went through its mini skid, losing three out of five between Dec. 19 and Jan. 10, it shot just 27.3 percent from 3. And in its six losses this season, Shaka Smart's team has bricked its way to 24.3 percent behind the arc.
In the last 10 games, however, the Golden Eagles are connecting on 43 percent of their 3s and have made double-digit triples six times, including a scorching 14-of-26 performance in Wednesday's 91-69 win over Providence. The lone bad showing in that time was a 5-of-23 day against UConn; that was also Marquette's only loss in the past 10 games.
The return of Chase Ross, who missed most of January with a shoulder injury, has been a big boost. Since he came back on Jan. 30, he's gone 21-of-37 (56.8 percent) from deep.
This team is built to spread the floor and move the ball, not pound it inside. The difference between a long run in the tournament and a second consecutive early exit could simply be those 3-point numbers.
Is 21/37 from Chase a real stat??
Can't be
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 01, 2024, 07:59:46 AM
Is 21/37 from Chase a real stat??
Can't be
It isn't. That is wrong
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 01, 2024, 07:59:46 AM
Is 21/37 from Chase a real stat??
Can't be
He's actually 10/15 from 3 since coming back January 30th (66.7%)
21/37 is what he is from the floor since coming back.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 01, 2024, 08:06:06 AM
He's actually 10/15 from 3 since coming back January 30th (66.7%)
21/37 is what he is from the floor since coming back.
Marquette marketing department fails again
I am just glad MU changed their offense, stopped shooting 3s and layups, and focused on midrange jumpers.
I also read Stevie is 42% from deep since coming back from his hamstring injury.
Kam has been on fire since the ankle injury.
TKO going to shoot 69% from deep after the oblique.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 01, 2024, 08:06:06 AM
He's actually 10/15 from 3 since coming back January 30th (66.7%)
21/37 is what he is from the floor since coming back.
Makes way more sense.
I know he's shot well. But I'd need to see a doctor for blackouts if I really missed 20ish attempts
Quote from: tower912 on March 01, 2024, 08:10:55 AM
I am just glad MU changed their offense, stopped shooting 3s and layups, and focused on midrange jumpers.
The key to beating UConn will be to scrap the offense Marquette has been running and get Cam more jumpers from the FT line and Osa firing skyhooks from 15'
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 01, 2024, 08:28:14 AM
The key to beating UConn will be to scrap the offense Marquette has been running and get Cam more jumpers from the FT line and Osa firing skyhooks from 15'
Think of all the conditioning that could be saved if players just fired up full court shots. You'd only have to practice a little bit of rebounding and just hit full court shots all day.
I'm pretty sure I'm on to something here. Revolutionary, in fact. I wonder what Bill Walton would think about it.
I posted this on January 22, a perfectly placed 10 games ago:
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 22, 2024, 09:43:15 AM
It's a valid question. Prior to this, our shooters were pretty much all over 40% on open threes, which is why we work so hard for those looks. I truly believed that natural progression from our returning players and replacing O-Max's threes with Jop threes would lead to a better shooting team, not worse.
We are 45% of the way through the season averaging 25.9 threes per game and making 31.5% of them. To equal what we did last year, we would have to go roughly 219/570 (38.4%) in our final 22 games. Is that possible? Certainly. But the way things have gone of late it sure doesn't feel likely.
In the 10 games since then, we've gone 107/249 (43.0%) from three. Individually, Ross is 10/15 (66.7%), Kam is 29/56 (51.8%), Kolek is 21/44 (47.7%), Stevie is 8/17 (47.1%), Jop is 22/57 (38.6%), and Gold is 13/35 (37.1%), . So every primary rotation player other than Jop is well above their season average in that stretch (Jop is dead even). We are also now over our 3PFG% average from last year. I'm not sure we can keep this up, but if this is a 38-40% shooting team the rest of the way, there's a very good chance this season ends in Glendale.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 01, 2024, 08:59:07 AM
I posted this on January 22, a perfectly placed 10 games ago:
In the 10 games since then, we've gone 107/249 (43.0%) from three. Individually, Gold is 6/8 (75%), Ross is 10/15 (66.7%), Kam is 29/56 (51.8%), Kolek is 21/44 (47.7%), Stevie is 8/17 (47.1%), and Jop is 22/57 (38.6%). So every primary rotation player other than Jop is well above their season average in that stretch (Jop is dead even). We are also now over our 3PFG% average from last year. I'm not sure we can keep this up, but if this is a 38-40% shooting team the rest of the way, there's a very good chance this season ends in Glendale.
I'm thinking the Benny 6/8 stat is also incorrect
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 01, 2024, 08:06:06 AM
He's actually 10/15 from 3 since coming back January 30th (66.7%)
21/37 is what he is from the floor since coming back.
Thanks for that correction. Pretty bad mistake by The Athletic, but the point still stands: Marquette does so many things so well that if we hit some 3s we are extremely difficult to beat (when healthy).
Quote from: tower912 on March 01, 2024, 08:10:55 AM
I am just glad MU changed their offense, stopped shooting 3s and layups, and focused on midrange jumpers.
And don't forget giving a bunch of Gold's minutes to Amadou, and a chunk of Ross' PT to Lowery.
We're a patient group here at Scoop.
You have to remember we were scouted during that bad stretch. That's why we weren't making threes.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 01, 2024, 09:02:26 AM
I'm thinking the Benny 6/8 stat is also incorrect
Damn was in his 2P column. 13/35, 37.1%, still well above his season average.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 01, 2024, 09:04:22 AM
You have to remember we were scouted during that bad stretch. That's why we weren't making threes.
Stevie has been breaking into locker rooms and stealing the opponent's scout.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 01, 2024, 09:10:43 AM
Stevie has been breaking into locker rooms and stealing the opponent's scout.
Nope, he wears a disguise and IS the scout.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on March 01, 2024, 08:34:32 AM
Think of all the conditioning that could be saved if players just fired up full court shots. You'd only have to practice a little bit of rebounding and just hit full court shots all day.
I'm pretty sure I'm on to something here. Revolutionary, in fact. I wonder what Bill Walton would think about it.
#MakeHalfcourtTheFourPointLine
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 01, 2024, 09:04:22 AM
You have to remember we were scouted during that bad stretch. That's why we weren't making threes.
No that's not true. We weren't making threes on our own so teams worked that into their scout and focused on protecting the paint which is why our 2P% also cratered during that skid.
Now that we are hitting threes again, the scout changes. We are a lot harder to scout than we were in December/ early January
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 01, 2024, 09:50:16 AM
No that's not true. We weren't making threes on our own so teams worked that into their scout and focused on protecting the paint which is why our 2P% also cratered during that skid.
Now that we are hitting threes again, the scout changes. We are a lot harder to scout than we were in December/ early January
Yes, TAMU. But it was on us not them. A grade school coach could figure that out. It didn't take the great Tom Izzo. People were making it out to be a genius decision. Like they had broken the code to our team. It was silly.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 01, 2024, 09:50:16 AM
No that's not true. We weren't making threes on our own so teams worked that into their scout and focused on protecting the paint which is why our 2P% also cratered during that skid.
Now that we are hitting threes again, the scout changes. We are a lot harder to scout than we were in December/ early January
Yep. It's pretty simple: Make a decent percentage of 3s, and the opponent can't pack the lane ... and getting into the lane is how our entire offense rolls.
Many Scoopers offered a version of "When we start making 3s again, a lot of the team's offensive problems will go away" ... but the Eeyores weren't having it.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 01, 2024, 09:54:55 AM
Yes, TAMU. But it was on us not them. A grade school coach could figure that out. It didn't take the great Tom Izzo. People were making it out to be a genius decision. Like they had broken the code to our team. It was silly.
I think you are projecting a bit here. I can't speak for everyone but I posted repeatedly about our 3P% needing a positive regrssion to the mean in order for our offense to get back on track. There were some who didn't believe we'd get that positive regression to the mean and if they were correct then we would have remained scouted.
And Shooter, every scout is based on things that "are on us". We couldn't shoot so teams adjusted to exploit that. We can't rebound so teams adjust to exploit that. We're aggressive on D, some teams have been able to adjust to exploit that (most fail). That's what scouting is.
People were posting repeatedly that our offense was generating a ton of good looks, but we just weren't hitting them. Now we are.
...and that the looks were the ones the offense was designed to generate and to just keep shooting.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 01, 2024, 10:08:17 AM
People were posting repeatedly that our offense was generating a ton of good looks, but we just weren't hitting them. Now we are.
Which has opened up everything else. And fed into the defensive intensity. And everything is clicking. Sometimes it really is that simple.
The progressions we've seen from Stevie, Tre, Chase, Ben, Jop along with TK and Kam playing their best doesn't hurt either
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 01, 2024, 10:05:41 AM
I think you are projecting a bit here. I can't speak for everyone but I posted repeatedly about our 3P% needing a positive regrssion to the mean in order for our offense to get back on track. There were some who didn't believe we'd get that positive regression to the mean and if they were correct then we would have remained scouted.
And Shooter, every scout is based on things that "are on us". We couldn't shoot so teams adjusted to exploit that. We can't rebound so teams adjust to exploit that. We're aggressive on D, some teams have been able to adjust to exploit that (most fail). That's what scouting is.
Yes, different teams have different weaknesses. Our team went through a bad stretch of shooting. A couple teams exploited that. But several posters made it sound like the team had been figured out. Had a long term solution to the Marquette problem. That genius coaching had broken the code.
Two threads could have been started during that time.
1) we are really shooting poorly
Or
2) we've been scouted
1) is much more accurate than 2).
Regardless, I agree there are game by game scouting reports that help beat a given team on a given night. I'm not arguing that there is no strategy in basketball on a game by game basis based on strengths and weaknesses of other teams or based on strengths and weaknesses of our team.
I'm only arguing the big picture premise that we had been figured out when the team was only in a shooting slump.
I'll let it die there.
Where is the fun in that?
This team is way too reliant on 3PT shooting. When they don't fall we're exposed plain and simple. Even more concerning than our 3PT shooting our is free throw percentage. We are second to last in conference, only Providence is worse at the line.
https://www.bigeast.com/stats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2023
When our 3's don't fall at high percentage, we need free throws to make up the difference.
Quote from: Disco Hippie on March 01, 2024, 10:48:10 AM
This team is way too reliant on 3PT shooting. When they don't fall we're exposed plain and simple. Even more concerning than our 3PT shooting our is free throw percentage. We are second to last in conference, only Providence is worse at the line.
https://www.bigeast.com/stats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2023
When our 3's don't fall at high percentage, we need free throws to make up the difference.
JB in 3...2...1...
Quote from: Disco Hippie on March 01, 2024, 10:48:10 AM
This team is way too reliant on 3PT shooting. When they don't fall we're exposed plain and simple.
Shaka's opinion is different than yours, and his is the one that counts. There is 0.00% chance the team is going to change offensive strategy at this point in the season - and probably not as long as he's coach.
It's like having our 5 hedge on defense. It's simply what we do. So either get used to it or enjoy complaining about it.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 01, 2024, 10:40:05 AM
Yes, different teams have different weaknesses. Our team went through a bad stretch of shooting. A couple teams exploited that. But several posters made it sound like the team had been figured out. Had a long term solution to the Marquette problem. That genius coaching had broken the code.
Two threads could have been started during that time.
1) we are really shooting poorly
Or
2) we've been scouted
1) is much more accurate than 2).
Regardless, I agree there are game by game scouting reports that help beat a given team on a given night. I'm not arguing that there is no strategy in basketball on a game by game basis based on strengths and weaknesses of other teams or based on strengths and weaknesses of our team.
I'm only arguing the big picture premise that we had been figured out when the team was only in a shooting slump.
I'll let it die there.
Have you noticed Marquette coaches have put in offensive adjustments too? It's better shooting because players are catching in rhythm and space. Raf pointed those out a few games ago. Shaka has talked about him working with Jop. MU's action around the free throw line vortex is much improved, with and without the ball.
Quote from: Disco Hippie on March 01, 2024, 10:48:10 AM
This team is way too reliant on 3PT shooting. When they don't fall we're exposed plain and simple. Even more concerning than our 3PT shooting our is free throw percentage. We are second to last in conference, only Providence is worse at the line.
https://www.bigeast.com/stats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2023
When our 3's don't fall at high percentage, we need free throws to make up the difference.
In one of his media availabilities, Shaka referenced that 3 pt shooting percentage is one of the most volatile statistics as well as one of the most important. He accepts that. So, while I will agree that many teams look bad when they are clanging 3s, I would ask you how many you have seen that can also score 60 in the paint on a given night against a conference opponent.
MU's offensive concepts are sound. Off nights happen.
Quote from: Disco Hippie on March 01, 2024, 10:48:10 AM
This team is way too reliant on 3PT shooting. When they don't fall we're exposed plain and simple. Even more concerning than our 3PT shooting our is free throw percentage. We are second to last in conference, only Providence is worse at the line.
https://www.bigeast.com/stats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2023
When our 3's don't fall at high percentage, we need free throws to make up the difference.
This is why we need Al to play 5-10 minutes a game and dunk on fools
Without the TK-Oso PNR buckets for the foreseeable future, MU is gonna have to shoot the piss out of the ball to hang with good teams.
Quote from: Disco Hippie on March 01, 2024, 10:48:10 AM
This team is way too reliant on 3PT shooting. When they don't fall we're exposed plain and simple. Even more concerning than our 3PT shooting our is free throw percentage. We are second to last in conference, only Providence is worse at the line.
https://www.bigeast.com/stats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2023
When our 3's don't fall at high percentage, we need free throws to make up the difference.
We beat Illinois, Kansas, Creighton, and St. John's away shooting 30% or worse from three. We shot a collective 64.9% from the free throw line in those games, well below our season average of 72%. I'm going to go ahead and call BS on your entire post.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 01, 2024, 10:05:41 AM
I think you are projecting a bit here. I can't speak for everyone but I posted repeatedly about our 3P% needing a positive regrssion to the mean in order for our offense to get back on track. There were some who didn't believe we'd get that positive regression to the mean and if they were correct then we would have remained scouted.
And Shooter, every scout is based on things that "are on us". We couldn't shoot so teams adjusted to exploit that. We can't rebound so teams adjust to exploit that. We're aggressive on D, some teams have been able to adjust to exploit that (most fail). That's what scouting is.
So then the new question becomes....
Now that many of the guys are punching way above their typical weight in the last 10 games- with 3P shooting averages decently better than their career averages- is there a new regression to the mean with more misses coming? Or will the fiery hot shooting continue?
All Marquettes do, after all, reach equilibrium.
Quote from: DoctorV on March 01, 2024, 09:43:16 PM
So then the new question becomes....
Now that many of the guys are punching way above their typical weight in the last 10 games- with 3P shooting averages decently better than their career averages- is there a new regression to the mean with more misses coming? Or will the fiery hot shooting continue?
All Marquettes do, after all, reach equilibrium.
I think we level out around 35-38%. And if we can hit in that range for 6 games after St. Patty's, we can cut nets in Glendale.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 01, 2024, 11:03:27 AM
This is why we need Al to play 5-10 minutes a game and dunk on fools
You gotta know that Shaka now realizes the error in his ways and will give Amadou all of Kolek's minutes.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 01, 2024, 10:40:05 AM
Yes, different teams have different weaknesses. Our team went through a bad stretch of shooting. A couple teams exploited that. But several posters made it sound like the team had been figured out. Had a long term solution to the Marquette problem. That genius coaching had broken the code.
Two threads could have been started during that time.
1) we are really shooting poorly
Or
2) we've been scouted
1) is much more accurate than 2).
Regardless, I agree there are game by game scouting reports that help beat a given team on a given night. I'm not arguing that there is no strategy in basketball on a game by game basis based on strengths and weaknesses of other teams or based on strengths and weaknesses of our team.
I'm only arguing the big picture premise that we had been figured out when the team was only in a shooting slump.
I'll let it die there.
So what you're saying is.... the team had been scouted. You just don't like the term scouted. To you, it means a finality. Thats it, Marquette will never recover from being scouted. I don't think anyone serious uses that definition. It just means a weakness that can be exploited had been identified and the team needed to adjust to overcome it. And they did!
Quote from: DoctorV on March 01, 2024, 09:43:16 PM
So then the new question becomes....
Now that many of the guys are punching way above their typical weight in the last 10 games- with 3P shooting averages decently better than their career averages- is there a new regression to the mean with more misses coming? Or will the fiery hot shooting continue?
All Marquettes do, after all, reach equilibrium.
It's hard to imagine that we will remain this hot through the eclipse but dammit I hope we do!
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 01, 2024, 09:57:36 PM
I think we level out around 35-38%. And if we can hit in that range for 6 games after St. Patty's, we can cut nets in Glendale.
Yea leveling out seems likely.
I think it'll be more important to not shoot under 25% in any single game starting 3/22 (assuming Indy) than it'll be to shoot at an elite clip like they have been.
One of those 20% outings could mean season over.
I think if Marquette shoots in the low 30s from 3 it'll still be good enough to advance to the sweet 16 and maybe even beyond.
Then sprinkle in a game or two at that 37%+ clip at just the right time and then we are really cooking.
Gotta keep the defensive tenacity and intensity alive, because they will save Marquette from doom when it inevitably has its brutal shooting elimination game.
That's way more important if TyKo misses a game or few.
Agree Dr. V.!
Marquette hasn't done anything to "adjust" other than make the shots they were missing during their slide. They were always there. They were just missing them.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 02, 2024, 09:09:28 AM
Marquette hasn't done anything to "adjust" other than make the shots they were missing during their slide. They were always there. They were just missing them.
While it's true this offense creates a lot of open shots that were there, MU has certainly "adjusted".
No half shots. Let it fly!
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 02, 2024, 09:18:02 AM
While it's true this offense creates a lot of open shots that were there, MU has certainly "adjusted".
Yeah there's definitely been adjustments. And player improvement in both decision making and abilities.