MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 1SE on February 21, 2024, 11:33:40 PM
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I mean everyone loves a good seal clubbing, but, honestly, how many of us were watching the first 30 minutes just praying that no one got hurt? At this point it's really hard to see what value DePaul brings to the Big East. In the era of mega-streaming traditional media market rights will matter less and less. And while this year is clearly a nadir (hopefully!), DePaul has been just abysmal since the New BE formed - it's never been better than a Q3 home game, and has been a Q4 home game 5 times since 2013.
What are the pros at this point?
Don't have to pay for a buy game?
Gets the walk-ons some guaranteed minutes?
Gets Marquette an additional home game at FiservSouth?
Their women's team is decent?
It's a close and cheap conference match-up for all our other sports?
It's 2 wins (but not always!) that might be useful in bubble years when we're looking for that magic number of 18 or 19 total wins?
Clearly whoever comes in next should be given a chance to turn it around - but at what point does the rest of the league say "you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here?" It seems like a team getting booted from a conference for poor performance is pretty rare, but it did happen to Temple BE football in 2001 - DePaul's track record has been similarly futile - could you just kick out their mbb?
I mean I guess if you boot them and don't bring in anyone else then you need to find two more (buy) games and/or one buy game and another "home and home". But honestly - wouldn't a game against Dayton tonight have been a bit more exciting? We're probably better than GMU anyway....
2024 - Q4
2023 - Q2/Q3 (A/H)(barely)
2022 - Q2/Q3
2021 - Q3
2020 - Q2/Q3
2019 - Q2/Q3
2018 - Q2/Q3
2017 - Q3/Q4
2016 - Q3/Q4
2015 - Q3
2014 - Q3/Q4
2013 - Q3/Q4
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"wouldn't a game against Dayton tonight have been a bit more exciting"
No, ABD - Anybody But Dayton. Would rather play UW-Milwaukee or Grand Canyon...
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DePaul is great for the BEAST. MU gets one additional home game, (for the Chi-town crowd) and 2 mid season scrimmages with much less strain than a real BEAST game.
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DePaul is great for the BEAST. MU gets one additional home game, (for the Chi-town crowd) and 2 mid season scrimmages with much less strain than a real BEAST game.
This seems like a good moment to express our appreciation that Shaka is the coach at Marquette and our deep gratitude to the individual(s) who paid Wojo's buyout. It was not long ago that we sweated the DePaul game. During Wojo's tenure MU was only 9-5 against DePaul. That included two home losses.
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I know the BE is mostly about basketball but I'm not sure about Depauls other sports. Are they decent? You mention women's basketball. I'm hoping the BE can make decisions on the whole of the conference. Not be a grotesque disfigured monster like the B10. Football driving change.
Basketball also doesn't take too many people to have a decent team. A good coach and a couple of recruits and youre not in the cellar.
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I know the BE is mostly about basketball but I'm not sure about Depauls other sports. Are they decent? You mention women's basketball. I'm hoping the BE can make decisions on the whole of the conference. Not be a grotesque disfigured monster like the B10. Football driving change.
Basketball also doesn't take too many people to have a decent team. A good coach and a couple of recruits and youre not in the cellar.
Their women's basketball team has not been as strong the last few years as it had historically. The had a star player transfer to LSU last year. I think the NIL stuff is even leaking into the women's game at the highest level. They have had the same coach for decades and were consistently very good until dipping recently. That athletic department/school has clearly not kept up with the times and they are paying for it.
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This seems like a good moment to express our appreciation that Shaka is the coach at Marquette and our deep gratitude to the individual(s) who paid Wojo's buyout. It was not long ago that we sweated the DePaul game. During Wojo's tenure MU was only 9-5 against DePaul. That included two home losses.
This. I actually said last night no chance we win by 27.5, it’s DePaul, we could very well find ourselves in a frustrating dogfight. Welp, we may have reached the DePaul is irrelevant point, and I’m a fan from back in the day. It’s too bad, really, lots of history there.
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This seems like a good moment to express our appreciation that Shaka is the coach at Marquette and our deep gratitude to the individual(s) who paid Wojo's buyout. It was not long ago that we sweated the DePaul game. During Wojo's tenure MU was only 9-5 against DePaul. That included two home losses.
After those 5 losses Wojo’s press conference probably went something like this: “they’re a really good team. They’re well coached and winning in this league is hard”
Gosh, so happy that the big money folks stepped up
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I don't see anything positive DePaul adds to the BEast.
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Like the rest of us, I've been watching Big East basketball pretty closely ever since Marquette joined. And I can't remember watching a worse Big East team than the one that played Marquette last night.
Can't imagine the league booting them, though.
More likely: When the game of Conference Musical Chairs ends, they'll be left without a seat. Maybe they'll be able to compete in the MAC. (Or maybe not.)
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Nothing to do with quality of sports. They bring the Chicago Market which makes the value of any TV contract higher.
Trading Chicago for Dayton would be dumb.
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Nothing to do with quality of sports. They bring the Chicago Market which makes the value of any TV contract higher.
Do they bring the Chicago market or do we?
I could see there being more Marquette alums than DePaul alums in Chicago watching Big East games.
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Nothing to do with quality of sports. They bring the Chicago Market which makes the value of any TV contract higher.
Trading Chicago for Dayton would be dumb.
Take Loyola and kick out DePaul?
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I don't really think the "market" matters as much as it used to. What matters are the number of eyeballs that watch the game - especially if more of the content is moving to streaming services. And in that case, a program with a larger, dedicated fanbase, such as Dayton, may actually be more valuable than a program like DePaul.
But regardless, they aren't kicking out DePaul.
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Nothing to do with quality of sports. They bring the Chicago Market which makes the value of any TV contract higher.
Trading Chicago for Dayton would be dumb.
They are so bad, the TV numbers have been a trainwreak.
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I don't really think the "market" matters as much as it used to. What matters are the number of eyeballs that watch the game - especially if more of the content is moving to streaming services. And in that case, a program with a larger, dedicated fanbase, such as Dayton, may actually be more valuable than a program like DePaul.
But regardless, they aren't kicking out DePaul.
Going along with this, I think adding markets matters more when the conference has their own network (Big Ten) and is trying to get it added in new places (west coast).
Chicago is going to have any channel Big East games are on with or without DePaul.
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I was more entertained last night than I was Saturday. As long as the team is able to find focus when playing against DePaul, it's pretty fun to watch.
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Nothing to do with quality of sports. They bring the Chicago Market which makes the value of any TV contract higher.
Trading Chicago for Dayton would be dumb.
"Markets" aren't essential in media deals anymore. Here are the rankings of TV markets in two conferences this season. Which is more valuable?
Conference 1
Top 50:
# 4, 5, 6, 12, 18, 21, 31, 46, 50
Top 100:
#51, 62, 70
Below Top 100:
#103
Conference 2
Top 50:
#7, 26, 46
Top 100:
#59, 61, 63, 76, 83, 95, 96, 98
Below Top 100:
#105, 134, 138
Conference 1 is the AAC. Conference 2 is the SEC.
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Going along with this, I think adding markets matters more when the conference has their own network (Big Ten) and is trying to get it added in new places (west coast).
Chicago is going to have any channel Big East games are on with or without DePaul.
Exactly. And if the BEAST seeks to replace DePaul they'd probably rather have the MSP metro area or even STL than the Dayton metro area.
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The world needs ditch diggers too. I think DePaul is only one hire away from at least being respectable. They just have been really bad at doing that.
Their facilities seem up to par and are making the necessary investments. Certainly not Mu levels, but the bare minimum for a Big East school.
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I was more entertained last night than I was Saturday. As long as the team is able to find focus when playing against DePaul, it's pretty fun to watch.
True. I probably said, "What an effen pass!" at least a half-dozen times yesterday, and a couple of those were for Oso.
As I said in another thread, I wish we had played Providence or Xavier or even at Creighton last night because I think we'd have beaten anybody. Very high level of determination and focus, and it wasn't just because Depaul was the opponent. Indeed, playing a JV team could've made it more difficult to focus.
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The world needs ditch diggers too. I think DePaul is only one hire away from at least being respectable. They just have been really bad at doing that.
Their facilities seem up to par and are making the necessary investments. Certainly not Mu levels, but the bare minimum for a Big East school.
nah
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Potential: depaul is by a decent bit the second largest school in the big east, that means how many exponentially more stakeholders between alumni, staff, parents that could watch. Additionally they're in, by quite a decent bit, the second largest metro area in the conference. If we say a good big east team brings in 10% of casual non affiliated observers from a market then you'd want that 10% to be from a 9million metro not from a small satellite city regardless how rabid the fanbase is.
Positives for us: Lastly DePaul gives the teams that do try a rallying event in a large market. I'd guarantee us, Creighton Butler and X all have their second largest alumni bases in Chicagoland. Playing here once is a huge opportunity to increase engagement among alumni and Increase their presence in front of potential students.
Recruiting: Lastly recruiting, Chicago isn't what it once was thanks to prep schools but it's still a pretty important area to keep and selling kids on being able to play in front of their friends & family every year is certainly a selling point.
All that said if Loyola wanted to pitch playing at the UC or wintrust id swap the pair in an instant.
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Nothing to do with quality of sports. They bring the Chicago Market which makes the value of any TV contract higher.
Trading Chicago for Dayton would be dumb.
Depaul definitely does NOT bring the chicago market looool.
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Exactly ^
Duh Paul does NOT bring the Chicago market! I mean they draw like what ?….
500 fans per game ?
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True. I probably said, "What an effen pass!" at least a half-dozen times yesterday, and a couple of those were for Oso.
As I said in another thread, I wish we had played Providence or Xavier or even at Creighton last night because I think we'd have beaten anybody. Very high level of determination and focus, and it wasn't just because Depaul was the opponent. Indeed, playing a JV team could've made it more difficult to focus.
Let's not get carried away. A lot of those brilliant passes would have been thwarted or could not even have been attempted against defenders with a pulse. Watching that game was almost as brutal as watching the NBA all-star game (I imagine). I'm glad we throttled them like we should have, but I would posit that that game didn't tell us much of anything about anything. Maybe Kam got some confidence out of it or something, but he makes almost all of them in warmups when nobody is guarding him, too. Looking forward to X and some real hoops this weekend. I do think that UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day and that we are ready to roll now, assuming health.
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Potential: depaul is by a decent bit the second largest school in the big east, that means how many exponentially more stakeholders between alumni, staff, parents that could watch. Additionally they're in, by quite a decent bit, the second largest metro area in the conference. If we say a good big east team brings in 10% of casual non affiliated observers from a market then you'd want that 10% to be from a 9million metro not from a small satellite city regardless how rabid the fanbase is.
Positives for us: Lastly DePaul gives the teams that do try a rallying event in a large market. I'd guarantee us, Creighton Butler and X all have their second largest alumni bases in Chicagoland. Playing here once is a huge opportunity to increase engagement among alumni and Increase their presence in front of potential students.
Recruiting: Lastly recruiting, Chicago isn't what it once was thanks to prep schools but it's still a pretty important area to keep and selling kids on being able to play in front of their friends & family every year is certainly a selling point.
All that said if Loyola wanted to pitch playing at the UC or wintrust id swap the pair in an instant.
I agree with all of this, which is why keeping DePaul makes sense, and is most definitely going to be the case. But none of this matters until they get decent.
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I don't think the Big East ever kicks out DePaul but for the sake of argument...
Loyola
Endowment: $1.072 billion
Students: 17,159
Final Fours: 2
National Championships: 1
2024 Average Home Attendance: 2,787
DePaul
Endowment: $907.6 million
Students: 22,437
Final Fours: 2
National Championships: 0
2024 Average Home Attendance: 3,684 (with a Marquette bump)
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Never take a university where after hearing its name you have to ask "which one?"
https://blogs.luc.edu/uao/2015/03/10/9-loyola-myths/
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Let's not get carried away. A lot of those brilliant passes would have been thwarted or could not even have been attempted against defenders with a pulse. Watching that game was almost as brutal as watching the NBA all-star game (I imagine). I'm glad we throttled them like we should have, but I would posit that that game didn't tell us much of anything about anything. Maybe Kam got some confidence out of it or something, but he makes almost all of them in warmups when nobody is guarding him, too. Looking forward to X and some real hoops this weekend. I do think that UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day and that we are ready to roll now, assuming health.
Above and beyond the great passes and made 3s, I just liked the guys' demeanor last night. I believe Shaka has a motivated group anyway, but nothing like a butt-kicking in front of a national audience to really get their attention.
So while I know there wouldn't have been anywhere near as many easy looks as there were last night had we played an actual varsity team, I think Shaka's guys were primed for an outstanding performance regardless of opponent.
You're certainly allowed to disagree. Neither of us can "prove" anything either way.
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I don’t get the love for Loyola and the hatred for Dayton. Loyola plays in a high school gym while the UD Arena seats over 13,000. Loyola is currently 99 NET ranking and recent history was due to Moser & Sister Jean. Dayton is currently 19 Net made it to the elite 8 in 2014 and might have been the favorite to win the NCAA in 2020 with Obi Toppin if it hadn’t been cancelled.
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I don’t get the love for Loyola and the hatred for Dayton. Loyola plays in a high school gym while the UD Arena seats over 13,000. Loyola is currently 99 NET ranking and recent history was due to Moser & Sister Jean. Dayton is currently 19 Net made it to the elite 8 in 2014 and might have been the favorite to win the NCAA in 2020 with Obi Toppin if it hadn’t been cancelled.
Because they're not worthy of the BEAST.
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I don't think the Big East ever kicks out DePaul but for the sake of argument...
Loyola
2024 Average Home Attendance: 2,787
So a team that barely half-fills a 5,000-seat arena would be an attractive addition to the Big East?
Loyola is an afterthought in its own city.
Thankfully, I'm pretty sure the conference would aim a little higher if it either wanted to expand or to replace a school it dumped.
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So a team that barely half-fills a 5,000-seat arena would be an attractive addition to the Big East?
Loyola is an afterthought in its own city.
Thankfully, I'm pretty sure the conference would aim a little higher if it either wanted to expand or to replace a school it dumped.
I agree there are much more attractive options than Loyola should the Big East look to expand or replace.
But I would argue there is more Loyola interest in Chicago than DePaul interest due to their success.
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I don’t get the love for Loyola and the hatred for Dayton. Loyola plays in a high school gym while the UD Arena seats over 13,000. Loyola is currently 99 NET ranking and recent history was due to Moser & Sister Jean. Dayton is currently 19 Net made it to the elite 8 in 2014 and might have been the favorite to win the NCAA in 2020 with Obi Toppin if it hadn’t been cancelled.
I think there's some sort of old-school rivalry that people just can't let go of. I don't really get it either. To me, they seem like an attractive candidate:
- Rabid fanbase
- High attendance
- "Urban" Catholic school
- Midwest/Northeast region
- Sustained basketball success at a lower level
In what way is that different than what Creighton was when they got invited to the Big East? Sure Omaha is bigger than Dayton, but Omaha is geographically odd compared to where Dayton is located.
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Let's not get carried away. A lot of those brilliant passes would have been thwarted or could not even have been attempted against defenders with a pulse. Watching that game was almost as brutal as watching the NBA all-star game (I imagine). I'm glad we throttled them like we should have, but I would posit that that game didn't tell us much of anything about anything. Maybe Kam got some confidence out of it or something, but he makes almost all of them in warmups when nobody is guarding him, too. Looking forward to X and some real hoops this weekend. I do think that UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day and that we are ready to roll now, assuming health.
If last night "didn't tell us much of anything about anything" and "UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day" ... what makes you think that "we are ready to roll now"?
I think the UConn game was a classic slap down that is a reminder that winning and being consistently and highly successful is very hard, and that can be no coasting. Like earlier in the season, I sense that the team may have needed and did indeed learn that lesson. I highly appreciate Shaka's commitment to reflecting, learning and applying, as a team and as individuals.
I also think the DePaul game was a classic this is who we can be game, when (to use Shaka's words) we are connected, play our roles like champions and all that. The guys were having fun and kicking a** because they were experiencing the joy of delivering a pounding just after getting pounded. And because they could see the benefits of working a unit. Yeah, it was great that Kam and others were hitting shots off of Tyler's great passes. And it was made easy because DePaul is terrible.
The entire outing last night told me "a lot about everything" (well, that's a bit extreme; just trying to counter the 'not much of anything about anything') and I do agree that we may be ready to roll now.
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Tall …
What do you think would be other
“ options “ for the BE if they dumped
DP ?
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Tall …
What do you think would be other
“ options “ for the BE if they dumped
DP ?
I don't think they will dump DePaul. I was just posting a comparison between DePaul and Loyola.
The only schools I have interest in joining the Big East would come from an ACC breakup.
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I think there's some sort of old-school rivalry that people just can't let go of. I don't really get it either. To me, they seem like an attractive candidate:
- Rabid fanbase
- High attendance
- "Urban" Catholic school
- Midwest/Northeast region
- Sustained basketball success at a lower level
In what way is that different than what Creighton was when they got invited to the Big East? Sure Omaha is bigger than Dayton, but Omaha is geographically odd compared to where Dayton is located.
ABD.
They bring nothing of value to the BE. They embrace being a mid-major and will stay a mid-major. There is no reason to bring the value of the BE down by adding a mid-major.
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If last night "didn't tell us much of anything about anything" and "UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day" ... what makes you think that "we are ready to roll now"?
The eight games before UConn. Destroying a beaten dog, with a lame duck interim coach who doesn't appear to know what he is doing, who was worse than the average low-D 1 cupcake before they were beaten down doesn't tell me a thing. The fact that Tyler Kolek went into that game thinking, "You know what? I want to work on my passing. I'm not going to shoot today and just try to set my teammates up and get a ton of assists" is all you need to know that it was not a real game against a real team that had a chance to win. You don't decide not to shoot when you have shots if you think its a game against real competition. That's what you do in a scrimmage. We looked great, but if we beat Grambling by 40 in November I wouldn't think it was a harbinger of great things to come, so why would I think this was?
I expected us to get thrashed at UConn, I expected DePaul to not put up a fight, and I expect us to play very well from here on out. We could play well and still lose at Creighton and against UConn, by the way, but I think we will be a tough out moving forward this season. The road game at Xavier will tell us a lot, I think. If we are really ready to roll, we'll win that one.
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I think there's some sort of old-school rivalry that people just can't let go of. I don't really get it either. To me, they seem like an attractive candidate:
- Rabid fanbase
- High attendance
- "Urban" Catholic school
- Midwest/Northeast region
- Sustained basketball success at a lower level
In what way is that different than what Creighton was when they got invited to the Big East? Sure Omaha is bigger than Dayton, but Omaha is geographically odd compared to where Dayton is located.
I'm pretty sure Creighton had a large and rabid fan base prior to joining the BE. We didn't have to hope they could manage to double their attendance to fill a 5,000 seat arena.
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The eight games before UConn. Destroying a beaten dog, with a lame duck interim coach who doesn't appear to know what he is doing, who was worse than the average low-D 1 cupcake before they were beaten down doesn't tell me a thing. The fact that Tyler Kolek went into that game thinking, "You know what? I want to work on my passing. I'm not going to shoot today and just try to set my teammates up and get a ton of assists" is all you need to know that it was not a real game against a real team that had a chance to win. You don't decide not to shoot when you have shots if you think its a game against real competition. That's what you do in a scrimmage. We looked great, but if we beat Grambling by 40 in November I wouldn't think it was a harbinger of great things to come, so why would I think this was?
I expected us to get thrashed at UConn, I expected DePaul to not put up a fight, and I expect us to play very well from here on out. We could play well and still lose at Creighton and against UConn, by the way, but I think we will be a tough out moving forward this season. The road game at Xavier will tell us a lot, I think. If we are really ready to roll, we'll win that one.
Fair points, and we share the same outlook for the future, though I didn't expect us to get thrashed at UConn. I expected a loss. And, I don't think the team expecting the thrashing they received. And, I think it had great value in reminding them about what it takes.
Roll on!
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I don’t get the love for Loyola and the hatred for Dayton. Loyola plays in a high school gym while the UD Arena seats over 13,000. Loyola is currently 99 NET ranking and recent history was due to Moser & Sister Jean. Dayton is currently 19 Net made it to the elite 8 in 2014 and might have been the favorite to win the NCAA in 2020 with Obi Toppin if it hadn’t been cancelled.
Highly doubt they're the favorite people seem to forget that Kansas had already beat them that year and their SOS was 79 in a ok but not highlight year of the A10. I'd call them a great upset pick
I think there's some sort of old-school rivalry that people just can't let go of. I don't really get it either. To me, they seem like an attractive candidate:
- Rabid fanbase
- High attendance
- "Urban" Catholic school
- Midwest/Northeast region
- Sustained basketball success at a lower level
In what way is that different than what Creighton was when they got invited to the Big East? Sure Omaha is bigger than Dayton, but Omaha is geographically odd compared to where Dayton is located.
Define that please because 8 NCAA appearances in a quarter of a millennium doesn't seem very sustained and certainly 9 in 34yrs isnt.
I'm not super against them but come on Creighton had 8 from 2000-13 and an additional regular season title when the league was a 1 bid. that's sustained success at a lower level.
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I'm pretty sure Creighton had a large and rabid fan base prior to joining the BE. We didn't have to hope they could manage to double their attendance to fill a 5,000 seat arena.
I was describing Dayton with that post, not Loyola. Dayton DOES fill up a much larger arena.
DAYTON -- The University of Dayton has announced that all available tickets for the 2023-24 men's basketball season have been sold, selling out the entire season before the Flyers take to the court for the third consecutive year.
That includes UD's exhibition games with Ohio State on Sunday, Oct. 22, and Cedarville on Saturday, Oct. 28.
This will extend a regular-season sellout streak to 60 games dating back to 2019-2020. This marks the fourth straight season (the NCAA did not track attendance during the Covid season) that the University of Dayton has had double-digit sellouts. UD had 14 sellouts in 2019-2020, 17 in 2021-22 and 16 in 2022-23. The Flyers announced sellouts before a game was played in each of the last three years.
Dayton men's basketball ranked 18th nationally in average attendance in 2022-23. The Flyers' average 13,407 fans a game in the last three seasons is a school record in average attendance.
Since the Arena opened in 1969, Dayton has been in the NCAA`s Top 35 in men's basketball attendance all 52 seasons, and in the Top 25 a total of 34 times. UD was the 11th school to have 10 million fans attend a men's basketball game in its current building. The others were Butler, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, New Mexico, Purdue, Syracuse and Vanderbilt.
https://daytonflyers.com/news/2023/10/13/mens-basketball-basketball-sells-out-entire-season-for-the-third-consecutive-year
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DePaul is great for the BEAST. MU gets one additional home game, (for the Chi-town crowd) and 2 mid season scrimmages with much less strain than a real BEAST game.
Yup. It’s like the Bye week in the NFL.
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I don't think they will dump DePaul. I was just posting a comparison between DePaul and Loyola.
The only schools I have interest in joining the Big East would come from an ACC breakup.
Dump DePaul if you can bring in Notre Dame. Loyola and Dayton...no.
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ABD.
They bring nothing of value to the BE. They embrace being a mid-major and will stay a mid-major. There is no reason to bring the value of the BE down by adding a mid-major.
Could Dayton ever play in the 1st four play-in games since a host school cannot play at home?
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I don't think they will dump DePaul. I was just posting a comparison between DePaul and Loyola.
The only schools I have interest in joining the Big East would come from an ACC breakup.
This. The Big East isn't doing anything until the ACC situation plays out, which I expect will hit at some point in 2025.
My expectation is that the Big Ten eventually snaps up UNC, Duke, and UVA, while the SEC takes Clemson, Miami, FSU, NC State, and Va. Tech. That puts both leagues at 21 members, which I suspect is the absolute max that could even bear any resemblance to a collegiate sports conference. The Big 12 then likely grabs Pitt, Louisville, and maybe Syracuse and Georgia Tech to keep up their numbers with the big boy leagues. That leaves Wake Forest, BC, and Notre Dame.
I suspect at that point the Big East would take a flyer on ND similar to what it did with UConn. Boston College can sleep in the bed they helped make. As for DePaul, I doubt the league kicks them out just to save a couple dollars and maintain a 20 game round robin. But if they really screw up this next head coaching hire (especially if its a cheap re-tread similar to Leitao round 2) then I think some awkward conversations will need to be had.
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I was describing Dayton with that post, not Loyola. Dayton DOES fill up a much larger arena.
Ah, my bad, I misunderstood
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This. The Big East isn't doing anything until the ACC situation plays out, which I expect will hit at some point in 2025.
My expectation is that the Big Ten eventually snaps up UNC, Duke, and UVA, while the SEC takes Clemson, Miami, FSU, NC State, and Va. Tech. That puts both leagues at 21 members, which I suspect is the absolute max that could even bear any resemblance to a collegiate sports conference. The Big 12 then likely grabs Pitt, Louisville, and maybe Syracuse and Georgia Tech to keep up their numbers with the big boy leagues. That leaves Wake Forest, BC, and Notre Dame.
I suspect at that point the Big East would take a flyer on ND similar to what it did with UConn. Boston College can sleep in the bed they helped make. As for DePaul, I doubt the league kicks them out just to save a couple dollars and maintain a 20 game round robin. But if they really screw up this next head coaching hire (especially if its a cheap re-tread similar to Leitao round 2) then I think some awkward conversations will need to be had.
There is no chance Notre Dame isn’t a member of one of the big conferences.
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There is no chance Notre Dame isn’t a member of one of the big conferences.
I agree with this - ND would join the big 10 as it fits with the academic profile, money and location. (i.e. not another team on West coast)
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SLEEPING GIANT
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I agree with this - ND would join the big 10 as it fits with the academic profile, money and location. (i.e. not another team on West coast)
Unless we got BC and Duke! Convince GTown Butler Nova and the new Xavier team to up to FBS, invite Dayton and tell them to do the same. No downside except finding ourselves in a catholic version of the old big east!
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This seems like a good moment to express our appreciation that Shaka is the coach at Marquette and our deep gratitude to the individual(s) who paid Wojo's buyout. It was not long ago that we sweated the DePaul game. During Wojo's tenure MU was only 9-5 against DePaul. That included two home losses.
'twas a harrowing experience!
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Highly doubt they're the favorite people seem to forget that Kansas had already beat them that year and their SOS was 79 in a ok but not highlight year of the A10. I'd call them a great upset pick
Define that please because 8 NCAA appearances in a quarter of a millennium doesn't seem very sustained and certainly 9 in 34yrs isnt.
I'm not super against them but come on Creighton had 8 from 2000-13 and an additional regular season title when the league was a 1 bid. that's sustained success at a lower level.
Dayton could have played themselves into the conversation after the first big east expansion by winning the mediocre A-10 a majority of the time. They did not do that. In fact they’ve won the A-10 tournament *checks notes* once.
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I went to Marquette undergraduate and DePaul for graduate school. I have absolutely no affinity towards DePaul while my love of MU is massive. I of course had massively different experiences; I was a full-time undergraduate at MU, but a part time graduate student going to class at the Loop campus at night while working full time. My sense is that my DePaul experience was common - people go there to get degrees, but do not have a strong affinity towards the school after they graduate. I think that’s part of the basketball problem - no one really cares.
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I agree with this - ND would join the big 10 as it fits with the academic profile, money and location. (i.e. not another team on West coast)
If the ND wanted to be in the Big Ten, they would already be in the Big Ten. They’ve wanted to stay independent for 40+ years. Don’t see why that would change now.
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If the ND wanted to be in the Big Ten, they would already be in the Big Ten. They’ve wanted to stay independent for 40+ years. Don’t see why that would change now.
Seriously? Practically everything in major college sports conferences is changing and you can’t think of a reason ND might want to make a change with it? ND’s current conference is likely going to blow up within a year or two and you can’t imagine that ND might look for a landing spot? In the current climate, I think ND would jump at the opportunity to join the Big 10.
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Seriously? Practically everything in major college sports conferences is changing and you can’t think of a reason ND might want to make a change with it? ND’s current conference is likely going to blow up within a year or two and you can’t imagine that ND might look for a landing spot? In the current climate, I think ND would jump at the opportunity to join the Big 10.
The question isn't whether I can "think of a reason ND might want to make a change;" its Wades' proposition that there is "no chance" they won't join the Big 10 or SEC.
ND has always had the most natural alignment with the Big 10 in terms of football, location, and academics. Nothing has changed on that front. But why would they give up their most privileged status in college football, where they can negotiate their own TV contract, keep all that revenue, pick their own schedule, and have an in-road to the playoff, just to be the third best football program in the Big 10?
Long term, the more interesting question is whether schools like Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, etc. start to realize what FSU has realized -- they're bringing in more the conference pie than they're walking away with and maybe they'd be better off in Notre Dame's shoes.
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The question isn't whether I can "think of a reason ND might want to make a change;" its Wades' proposition that there is "no chance" they won't join the Big 10 or SEC.
ND has always had the most natural alignment with the Big 10 in terms of football, location, and academics. Nothing has changed on that front. But why would they give up their most privileged status in college football, where they can negotiate their own TV contract, keep all that revenue, pick their own schedule, and have an in-road to the playoff, just to be the third best football program in the Big 10?
Long term, the more interesting question is whether schools like Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, etc. start to realize what FSU has realized -- they're bringing in more the conference pie than they're walking away with and maybe they'd be better off in Notre Dame's shoes.
They never had an incentive to join a conference for football. Now they are penalized for not being in one. They could go undefeated with the toughest schedule in the country and they’d be playing an opening round game while 4 teams get byes, and then going on the road to one of those bye teams for a quarterfinal game.
They’ll be in the B1G very soon.
And those schools you list are doing just fine.
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At bottom, they’re ND. They’re too arrogant to affiliate themselves with a bunch of state schools. I’m the same terms as everybody else.
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If the ND wanted to be in the Big Ten, they would already be in the Big Ten. They’ve wanted to stay independent for 40+ years. Don’t see why that would change now.
ND eventually will be forced to join a conference. As soon as NBC stops paying for the football contract, ND will move to a power football conference. I am fairly certain Big 10 teams make more on their TV contract than ND does with NBC currently, but NDs football contract is due soon, so only time will tell.
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ND eventually will be forced to join a conference. As soon as NBC stops paying for the football contract, ND will move to a power football conference. I am fairly certain Big 10 teams make more on their TV contract than ND does with NBC currently, but NDs football contract is due soon, so only time will tell.
Believe they just extended their deal with NBC in the Fall through 2029 at more than 2x what they were making per year with the previous contract. They'll be independent until the eventual breakaway from the NCAA. ND is more than willing to make slightly less per year to continue their independence and have a seat at the playoff.
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ND has always had the most natural alignment with the Big 10 in terms of football, location, and academics. Nothing has changed on that front. But why would they give up their most privileged status in college football, where they can negotiate their own TV contract, keep all that revenue, pick their own schedule, and have an in-road to the playoff, just to be the third best football program in the Big 10?
The same reason ND does everything - money. For years ND benefitted financially from being completely independent. Now they would benefit financially - a lot - by joining the Big 10. It will happen. Hell, they gave up one of the benefits you list - control of their own schedule - to play a partial ACC football schedule. The landscape has changed. ND has little choice but to change with it. It just so happens that they’ll make a ton of money when they do. And at the end of the day, that’s always been what drives ND.
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Believe they just extended their deal with NBC in the Fall through 2029 at more than 2x what they were making per year with the previous contract. They'll be independent until the eventual breakaway from the NCAA. ND is more than willing to make slightly less per year to continue their independence and have a seat at the playoff.
I couldn't find what the new contract is, but last year they made $22M and the Big is making $90M very soon. How long can ND afford to lose that much? I understand ND is filthy rich and wants independence, but having a difference of $70M a year in revenue is not smart business.
https://fightingirishwire.usatoday.com/lists/notre-dame-tv-contract-nbc-college-football-tv-deals/
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I couldn't find what the new contract is, but last year they made $22M and the Big is making $90M very soon. How long can ND afford to lose that much? I understand ND is filthy rich and wants independence, but having a difference of $70M a year in revenue is not smart business.
https://fightingirishwire.usatoday.com/lists/notre-dame-tv-contract-nbc-college-football-tv-deals/
The new deal is worth around $50M per year from NBC. They also get ~$15M from the ACC agreement. $22M is expiring and they will be making much more.
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I went to Marquette undergraduate and DePaul for graduate school. I have absolutely no affinity towards DePaul while my love of MU is massive. I of course had massively different experiences; I was a full-time undergraduate at MU, but a part time graduate student going to class at the Loop campus at night while working full time. My sense is that my DePaul experience was common - people go there to get degrees, but do not have a strong affinity towards the school after they graduate. I think that’s part of the basketball problem - no one really cares.
I have a housemate who did the exact same thing (or maybe you are that housemate - graduate 04?) And he also travels across the country for NMD day and I don't think has ever been to a DP game (expect when they played MU).
But I think it's also somewhat a function of UG vs Grad. I went to IU for gradschool. Granted I only lived in Bloomington for 1 year before moving to Indy and abroad, but I only.went to a handful of games - and that was mainly just because of Assembly hall and to tell people Crean sucked. I think caring about sport at their UG alma matter and grad school not so much is a pretty common thing.
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Speaking of which, $1 tix to the GT game.
https://twitter.com/BobbyBancroft/status/1760711364199256454
Maybe I'll buy one and then resell it a -$1 just to prove the point that you couldn't pay people to go to that game. Or too much punching down?
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We can debate how long ND will remain independent, but I can’t see any way they ever rejoin the Big East. Even if the ACC breaks apart completely and the Big East forms some hybrid conference, Notre Dame isn’t joining that mess.
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At bottom, they’re ND. They’re too arrogant to affiliate themselves with a bunch of state schools. I’m the same terms as everybody else.
I'm quite sure they see the writing on the wall. Arrogant, sure, stupid? Nope.
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We can debate how long ND will remain independent, but I can’t see any way they ever rejoin the Big East. Even if the ACC breaks apart completely and the Big East forms some hybrid conference, Notre Dame isn’t joining that mess.
If they don’t want to put their football in the Big Ten or SEC, it’s really their only option once the ACC dissolves.
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If they don’t want to put their football in the Big Ten or SEC, it’s really their only option once the ACC dissolves.
They will stay independent as long as they can. Which means they will stay independent until the College Football Playoff requires conference membership to participate. Then they will file a lawsuit of some sort.
If that doesn't work, they will join the Big Ten. You really think they are going to associate their football program with Duke, Wake Forest and a bunch of glorified FCS programs?
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They will stay independent as long as they can. Which means they will stay independent until the College Football Playoff requires conference membership to participate. Then they will file a lawsuit of some sort.
If that doesn't work, they will join the Big Ten. You really think they are going to associate their football program with Duke, Wake Forest and a bunch of glorified FCS programs?
Or until their fans gripe enough about not being on a fair playing field...
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They will stay independent as long as they can. Which means they will stay independent until the College Football Playoff requires conference membership to participate. Then they will file a lawsuit of some sort.
If that doesn't work, they will join the Big Ten. You really think they are going to associate their football program with Duke, Wake Forest and a bunch of glorified FCS programs?
Spoiler alert, starting next year to get a bye in the playoffs you need to be conference champions.
Further spoiler alert. ND could never win the SEC or B10111216 championship.
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Spoiler alert, starting next year to get a bye in the playoffs you need to be conference champions.
Further spoiler alert. ND could never win the SEC or B10111216 championship.
100% agree with the Big 100 and SEC comment. ND has not won a football natty in nearly 40 years. IMHO, they are basically irrelevant in football, but do not tell a golden domer that.
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Spoiler alert, starting next year to get a bye in the playoffs you need to be conference champions.
Further spoiler alert. ND could never win the SEC or B10111216 championship.
Correct. So why join a conference? If they are the number one team in the country, seeded fifth, they will get a home game (on a week's rest) in the first round followed by a neutral site game against the worst of the four autobids.
Or they could join a conference, hope to make the conference championship game, then win it.
Notre Dame is in a great spot.
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I don’t think Notre Dame wants any of the Big 10 / SEC smoke. They’re content sliding into the playoffs and getting exposed at the end of the year.
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Correct. So why join a conference? If they are the number one team in the country, seeded fifth, they will get a home game (on a week's rest) in the first round followed by a neutral site game against the worst of the four autobids.
Or they could join a conference, hope to make the conference championship game, then win it.
Notre Dame is in a great spot.
They still need to park the non-football sports somewhere if the ACC collapses. Would the Big10 be interested in Notre Dame without football? Would Notre Dame be interested in sending their non-football sports coast-to-coast for conference games?
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They still need to park the non-football sports somewhere if the ACC collapses. Would the Big10 be interested in Notre Dame without football? Would Notre Dame be interested in sending their non-football sports coast-to-coast for conference games?
I was responding completely about them joining the Big East as a football conference. Anyway, I don't think the ACC is going to completely implode. They will eventually lose valuable members no doubt, but there will be enough left for them to continue to park their non-football there.
They already have committed to sending their non-football teams coast to coast. So that's not really a change.
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Notre Dame is going to need to affiliate themselves with a conference in some way, shape, or form. If the "bigger" ACC football brands are picked off by the megaconferences, who is Notre Dame going to play? How many conference games are the megaconferences going to play?
Stay affiliated with the ACC and they get 6 games over what's left of the ACC? Georgia Tech, Boston College, Wake Forest, Pitt...?
Michigan is an extreme example as I'm not sure anyone has a tougher schedule. But Michigan plays at Washington, vs. Oregon, at Ohio State, and vs. USC next year, just in conference. Are schools really going to be interested in adding a top level non-con game? I know Michigan has Texas as a non-con game, but I'm assuming that game was scheduled well before USC and Washington were added to their conference slate.
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They still need to park the non-football sports somewhere if the ACC collapses. Would the Big10 be interested in Notre Dame without football? Would Notre Dame be interested in sending their non-football sports coast-to-coast for conference games?
Bolded is exactly what a number of recent conference transferees will have to do.
I remember that Brey asked the newly "reformed" BE if they would consider letting ND park its bball in the BE until they figured out what direction they wanted to take post BE breakup. How arrogant was that? Their ACC deal was firmed up shortly afterward, but the idea that we would welcome ND as a visitor says a lot about ND's view of itself. If the ACC collapses as predicted, ND may float that idea again. If the BE attaches a huge exit fee, kerching kerching, but trusting ND is as naive as trusting UCONN. And yes, I know....any BE memeber that sees a better opportunity would go for it. But UCONN and ND are always looking for a better deal.
It is going to become more difficult to find major non con matchups for ND, so I see then in a conference full time, not the custom made version that they have in the ACC.
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Notre Dame is not going to have trouble scheduling games. Their three main rivals will continue (Navy, Purdue, USC), they'll pick up games from the ACC (which will still have 10-12 members with the additions of Cal, Stanford and SMU and will likely pick up others like Tulane), and they will always have a line-up of opponents who want a home and home.
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Notre Dame is not going to have trouble scheduling games. Their three main rivals will continue (Navy, Purdue, USC), they'll pick up games from the ACC (which will still have 10-12 members with the additions of Cal, Stanford and SMU and will likely pick up others like Tulane), and they will always have a line-up of opponents who want a home and home.
Hypothetically, could the B1G tell USC and Purdue that they can't schedule ND?
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Hypothetically, could the B1G tell USC and Purdue that they can't schedule ND?
It may not be legal, but why would they? The B10 doesn't need Notre Dame, and the CFP isn't treating them special in anyway. They can just let ND be independent.
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It may not be legal, but why would they? The B10 doesn't need Notre Dame, and the CFP isn't treating them special in anyway. They can just let ND be independent.
Need, no. But they're quite the catch.
They didn't need USC and UCLA either if we're being honest.
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I may be simplifying things here, but the fact that ND gets less for its media contracts than each B10 member leads me to believe that they aren't as valuable as they used to be.
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I may be simplifying things here, but the fact that ND gets less for its media contracts than each B10 member leads me to believe that they aren't as valuable as they used to be.
Do they care they don’t get as much? If that was their biggest priority, they’d be in a conference for football.
My hunch is, they’ll be forced into a conference at some point and both the SEC or Fat 100 would take them
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Spoiler alert, starting next year to get a bye in the playoffs you need to be conference champions.
Further spoiler alert. ND could never win the SEC or B10111216 championship.
They do not care. That's the point everyone seems to be missing this past week with the new formatting of the 12 team playoff. ND is more than willing to play their 13th game, most likely at home, in the playoffs. That is a price they are willing to pay to be independent. They'd rather that, than playing a neutral site conference championship game as their 13th data point.
They are also more than willing to take less per year (up to a certain amount) to stay independent. They easily make up the difference. ND is a cash cow
If any athletic members here, their beat guy explains this: https://theathletic.com/1068782/2019/07/23/the-value-notre-dame-places-on-being-independent/ (https://theathletic.com/1068782/2019/07/23/the-value-notre-dame-places-on-being-independent/)
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ND football will continue to be a money-printing machine. No matter what happens with conference realignment, it will be fine - more than fine actually.
But if the ACC goes buh-bye as its schools scatter to other leagues, ND will need a place to put all their non-football sports. And unless the Big East also goes buh-bye, it would be the logical place, wouldn't it? It's hard to believe that the B77 and the SEC would take them without a full football commitment the way the desperate ACC did. Maybe if the B12 creates some kind of basketball superconference as has been bandied about in forums like this, ND could go there? Otherwise, it would appear to be the Big East, A10 or nuthin'.
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Hypothetically, could the B1G tell USC and Purdue that they can't schedule ND?
They'd also have to tell that to Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State...all of whom have played ND more in frequently in recent years than Purdue. They've also had Wisconsin and Northwestern on the schedule. ND has always played a lot of Big 10 teams.
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There is no chance Notre Dame isn’t a member of one of the big conferences.
exactly. If the ACC implodes, any of the remaining conferences would give their left nut to have ND has a full-time member. And I dislike ND immensely.
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Now that the Big Ten is in bed with NBC, there's no way they're blocking Purdue / USC / Michigan / MSU from Notre Dame's schedule.
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Notre Dame sucks
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There was a time I was more obsessed in my dislike of Notre Dame than my current dislike of Wisconsin, just sayin’
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There was a time I was more obsessed in my dislike of Notre Dame than my current dislike of Wisconsin, just sayin’
Hard to believe.
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There was a time I was more obsessed in my dislike of Notre Dame than my current dislike of Wisconsin, just sayin’
You changed brothers-in-law since then?
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Fck ND Superbar