1. TKo is not providing EGB's right now.
2. Keep shooting 3's. In the modern game, it is a necessity. It isn't like they were forced. No other choice.
3. When the game turned, I never got the sense MU could bounce back. First time since the UNC game.
4. Zaide had some moments.
5. MU quit making lay ups, too.
6. The confidence is gone. The swagger is gone. The trust is gone. The belief is gone.
7. Another bad injury. Poor Sean.
8. Decision time. Who will MU be the rest of the season?
Never assume the window will stay open. Hope we turn it around.
Game sucked. Pretty upset.
But my focus will be on prayers for Sean. He's out for a long time.
Quote from: tower912 on January 10, 2024, 10:08:13 PM
1. TKo is not providing EGB's right now.
2. Keep shooting 3's. In the modern game, it is a necessity. It isn't like they were forced. No other choice.
3. When the game turned, I never got the sense MU could bounce back. First time since the UNC game.
4. Chase had some moments.
5. MU quit making lay ups, too.
6. The confidence is gone. The swagger is gone. The trust is gone. The belief is gone.
7. Another bad injury. Poor Sean.
8. Decision time. Who will MU be the rest of the season?
Things are going so bad, that our guy with his arm in a sling is having stand out moments during the game
Quote from: forgetful on January 10, 2024, 10:09:48 PM
Game sucked. Pretty upset.
But my focus will be on prayers for Sean. He's out for a long time.
That's where I'm at. Kids got a long recovery. Huge bummer.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 10, 2024, 10:10:18 PM
Things are going so bad, that our guy with his arm in a sling is having stand out moments during the game
Oops
Last possession each way summed it up. We get a turnover, then give it right back. They try to give it right back unforced, but they out hustle us all over the court even though they're the team controlling the game.
If I lived in a state sports betting was legal, I'd stop losing my money on MU, worrying about how long our home winning streak will be, how many games we'll win in the BE before we finally take a loss, etc.
This team isn't as good as last year. Simple as that. Haven't been since Maui, outside of the Texas game.
I haven't felt this low after a Marquette loss in quite a while. Something has to be going on behind the scenes because this team isn't anywhere close to being connected right now. Shaka has his work cut out for him.
MU was almost unwatchable on the offensive end. Not sure what is going on with TKO at the moment but he's so off it is unreal, he hasn't had a stretch like this since his first year.
Oso also wasn't looking for his shot at all and Kam completely went away from what worked in the first half.
Just an awful performance
Stevie gave a good effort for 40 min tonight.
Shoutout Stevie Mitchell.
Not meeting expectations is extremely disappointing right now. The injuries make it worse.
I'm thinking a lot of things went our way last year and it looks like things are going to even off.
Everything that was great last year seems to have regressed.
The good side of all this, if everything has turned around, maybe Kolek will perform well in the dance, because he's been deer in the headlights so far.
This team looks almost like Michigan basketball
Hopefully we dont have a player internally about to be suspended for the season like Dug
Wolf ...
Correct. Never assume you can just
" run it back " and it will be the same.
This is not even a decent team right now
Kolek was so bad it seemed like he was trying to miss. ( I'm sure he was not )
Wow. Beyond awful
Time to readjust regular season expectations, unfortunately, and hope we can make some noise in March.
(Yes, we are absolutely making the tourney).
This feels so much like the Kolek of last year's tourney. .
People actually bet good $ on this team?!
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 10, 2024, 10:10:18 PM
Things are going so bad, that our guy with his arm in a sling is having stand out moments during the game
Him grinning on the sidelines was the only pleasant moment of the entire broadcast
Tough to win when your typical best player is one of the worst on the court. t
TKO is letting his shooting slump affect his entire game. Its tough to play well when your confidence is crap but turnaround starts with him.
While things were going well early in the season, it was disappointing that only Sean had taken a notable step. At that time, we were a player short. Now with Sean and Chase out, its critical. Encouraged by Lowery tonight. Need others
Quote from: mugrad_89 on January 10, 2024, 10:13:02 PM
I haven't felt this low after a Marquette loss in quite a while. Something has to be going on behind the scenes because this team isn't anywhere close to being connected right now. Shaka has his work cut out for him.
Same most deflated I've been by far all year.
Quote
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 10, 2024, 10:15:59 PM
Time to readjust regular season expectations, unfortunately, and hope we can make some noise in March.
(Yes, we are absolutely making the tourney).
I agree but what bothers me is I've done this adjustment twice already in half a season. Will I have to adjust again to a bad seed and again to a bubble team and again to....?
Can I trust what I see...even you having to say "we are absolutely making the tourney" is saying something about confidence.
Quote from: mugrad_89 on January 10, 2024, 10:13:02 PM
I haven't felt this low after a Marquette loss in quite a while. Something has to be going on behind the scenes because this team isn't anywhere close to being connected right now. Shaka has his work cut out for him.
maybe someone wrote a letter
-Tyler is not himself, he played alot better last year with a lot less NIL money...The passing was just so much fluid last year...
-Joplin you gotta find your 3 point shot and stick to that..The extra play time is wearing him down
-Kam consider having a few cocktails to get over your three point slump
-Sean and Chase are our future and injured... life is not fair
-Love the confidence of the freshmen; sit the less ones not confident....
-Oso still a true talent who always show up...Will always be one of my favorites in how he has developed and plays with incredible smarts....
-Shaka is smart he will shake things up no choice reallly
These guys won the regular season and BET last year. Kolek was AA and BE POY. The only thing that did not go right last season was NCAA tourney.
With same team back, it's only human nature to not have the same motivation during the regular season as they did last year. Other than Maui, which was a huge stage, I've had the sense all season these guys are just waiting around for the NCAA tournament.
All that being said, tonight was garbage and took it to an entirely new level. I was not concerned about the recent mediocre play thinking they would get a 3-5 seed and turn it on come tourney time. Tonight leaves me worried. I hope Shaka says Kolek is coming off the flu or something we can wrap our head around because he looks uninterested
Number 6 is true. And scary.
One wonders why.
For a pretty good basketball team to go from beating a number 1 team to playing this badly, it makes one wonder what's really going on. I just have to believe that there is something we don't know about happening.
And we'll probably never know what.
Against SH, MU forced 22 turnovers with 14 steals and lost.
Tonight MU forced 18 turnovers and lost.
Not good.
Sorry Tower, don't agree with keep shooting threes. Good grief they were 5 for 31....MU started off attacking the rim, with missing some threes, and had an 11 point lead. Kam Jones had 17 points from attacking, then just stopped, he was 1 for 10 from three after. He was 8 for 12 on attacking for two pointers. They stopped that and continued to miss like their next 14 threes. That's the issue with Shaka the Messiah and Nevada the Savant (Scoop nicknames). Stubborn to an extent and one reason why his NCAA tournament record is terrible. I just don't get it and his non willingness to tell his team, hey, its not working, so lets keep attacking the rim. Never happens, live or die from three, just like Seton Hall game.
Feel bad for the team, now it's Ross and Sean Jones out. Butler was a horrible loss. No one else to come off bench now, but maybe the freshmen can at least get some playing time and experience for next year if they stick around. In the NCAABall environment, you just don't know what's next.
Kolek, who knows. Can't recall ever seeing a first team all American and pre season, again BE player of year, have such a digression in play over last games. He was 1 for 13, 0 for 7 from three, 3 turnovers and two points. But, his demeanor or let's say, attitude has not been there. Just strange.
Kudos to Mitchell and Lowery, played tough in an even tougher loss.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 10, 2024, 10:33:10 PM
Number 6 is true. And scary.
One wonders why.
For a pretty good basketball team to go from beating a number 1 team to playing this badly, it makes one wonder what's really going on. I just have to believe that there is something we don't know about happening.
And we'll probably never know what.
+1
Every one of these clunkers has come during the winter break from classes. Perhaps they have too much time to think about basketball - as Tyler is a known gym rat and this might give him too much gym time. Looking forward to classes starting for these guys for something to change.
Marquette even trending on Twitter/X due to their ineptness
Confidence is gone. I knew the shots weren't going to drop in the second half. And the players knew it too. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
Quote from: nyg on January 10, 2024, 10:33:50 PM
Against SH, MU forced 22 turnovers with 14 steals and lost.
Tonight MU forced 18 turnovers and lost.
Not good.
Sorry Tower, don't agree with keep shooting threes. Good grief they were 5 for 31....MU started off attacking the rim, with missing some threes, and had an 11 point lead. Kam Jones had 17 points from attacking, then just stopped, he was 1 for 10 from three after. He was 8 for 12 on attacking for two pointers. They stopped that and continued to miss like their next 14 threes. That's the issue with Shaka the Messiah and Nevada the Savant (Scoop nicknames). Stubborn to an extent and one reason why his NCAA tournament record is terrible. I just don't get it and his non willingness to tell his team, hey, its not working, so lets keep attacking the rim. Never happens, live or die from three, just like Seton Hall game.
Feel bad for the team, now it's Ross and Sean Jones out. Butler was a horrible loss. No one else to come off bench now, but maybe the freshmen can at least get some playing time and experience for next year if they stick around. In the NCAABall environment, you just don't know what's next.
Kolek, who knows. Can't recall ever seeing a first team all American and pre season, again BE player of year, have such a digression in play over last games. He was 1 for 13, 0 for 7 from three, 3 turnovers and two points. But, his demeanor or let's say, attitude has not been there. Just strange.
Kudos to Mitchell and Lowery, played tough in an even tougher loss.
I'm sorry, but digression is not the correct word choice in this case.
Quote from: THEbig0 on January 10, 2024, 10:37:36 PM
Every one of these clunkers has come during the winter break from classes. Perhaps they have too much time to think about basketball - as Tyler is a known gym rat and this might give him too much gym time. Looking forward to classes starting for these guys for something to change.
I'm sorry but I laughed. Of all the possibilities this? absurd
More than one comment here about the big dance. We'll be lucky to finish .500 at the way we are playing. Something internal going on. With the injuries time to get our bench some minutes for next season.
Quote from: nyg on January 10, 2024, 10:33:50 PM
Against SH, MU forced 22 turnovers with 14 steals and lost.
Tonight MU forced 18 turnovers and lost.
Not good.
Sorry Tower, don't agree with keep shooting threes. Good grief they were 5 for 31....MU started off attacking the rim, with missing some threes, and had an 11 point lead. Kam Jones had 17 points from attacking, then just stopped, he was 1 for 10 from three after. He was 8 for 12 on attacking for two pointers. They stopped that and continued to miss like their next 14 threes. That's the issue with Shaka the Messiah and Nevada the Savant (Scoop nicknames). Stubborn to an extent and one reason why his NCAA tournament record is terrible. I just don't get it and his non willingness to tell his team, hey, its not working, so lets keep attacking the rim. Never happens, live or die from three, just like Seton Hall game.
Feel bad for the team, now it's Ross and Sean Jones out. Butler was a horrible loss. No one else to come off bench now, but maybe the freshmen can at least get some playing time and experience for next year if they stick around. In the NCAABall environment, you just don't know what's next.
Kolek, who knows. Can't recall ever seeing a first team all American and pre season, again BE player of year, have such a digression in play over last games. He was 1 for 13, 0 for 7 from three, 3 turnovers and two points. But, his demeanor or let's say, attitude has not been there. Just strange.
Kudos to Mitchell and Lowery, played tough in an even tougher loss.
They adjusted to the numbers and totally packed the paint, made it a point to defend the 2 point shots, MU got even more open 3 pts second half. By the time MU started hitting 3's it was too late.
Quote from: nyg on January 10, 2024, 10:33:50 PM
Against SH, MU forced 22 turnovers with 14 steals and lost.
Tonight MU forced 18 turnovers and lost.
Not good.
Sorry Tower, don't agree with keep shooting threes. Good grief they were 5 for 31....MU started off attacking the rim, with missing some threes, and had an 11 point lead. Kam Jones had 17 points from attacking, then just stopped, he was 1 for 10 from three after. He was 8 for 12 on attacking for two pointers. They stopped that and continued to miss like their next 14 threes. That's the issue with Shaka the Messiah and Nevada the Savant (Scoop nicknames). Stubborn to an extent and one reason why his NCAA tournament record is terrible. I just don't get it and his non willingness to tell his team, hey, its not working, so lets keep attacking the rim. Never happens, live or die from three, just like Seton Hall game.
Feel bad for the team, now it's Ross and Sean Jones out. Butler was a horrible loss. No one else to come off bench now, but maybe the freshmen can at least get some playing time and experience for next year if they stick around. In the NCAABall environment, you just don't know what's next.
Kolek, who knows. Can't recall ever seeing a first team all American and pre season, again BE player of year, have such a digression in play over last games. He was 1 for 13, 0 for 7 from three, 3 turnovers and two points. But, his demeanor or let's say, attitude has not been there. Just strange.
Kudos to Mitchell and Lowery, played tough in an even tougher loss.
Marquette stopped going to the rim as much because butler changed defensively
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 10, 2024, 10:46:26 PM
Marquette stopped going to the rim as much because butler changed defensively
Correct, 1-8 from 3, let them take 3s!!
NYG, the alternative is to go into 4 corners or start relying on mid range jumpers.
Quote from: tower912 on January 10, 2024, 10:08:13 PM
1. TKo is not providing EGB's right now.
2. Keep shooting 3's. In the modern game, it is a necessity. It isn't like they were forced. No other choice.
3. When the game turned, I never got the sense MU could bounce back. First time since the UNC game.
4. Zaide had some moments.
5. MU quit making lay ups, too.
6. The confidence is gone. The swagger is gone. The trust is gone. The belief is gone.
7. Another bad injury. Poor Sean.
8. Decision time. Who will MU be the rest of the season?
9. Decision time. Season is shot
Time to build for next year
Quote from: mugrad_89 on January 10, 2024, 10:13:02 PM
I haven't felt this low after a Marquette loss in quite a while. Something has to be going on behind the scenes because this team isn't anywhere close to being connected right now. Shaka has his work cut out for him.
Not looking like Shakas work is doing the job
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 10, 2024, 10:46:26 PM
Marquette stopped going to the rim as much because butler changed defensively
Exactly. Yesterday's game illustrated perfectly a point I made yesterday about shooting percentage on two point shots.
If you could look at all of the two point shots MU got in the first half and compare them to the ones they got in the second half the difference would be obvious. In the first half almost all of them were true, virtually uncontested layups witn a few left handed bank shots by Kam Jones thrown in.
In the second half most of those shots were coming after players driving into traffic and forcing up short shots that I would not call "layups".
MU has no real choice but to keep taking the open threes and pray that the 10% they made until the game was lost beyond recall can turn into a more normal 30-35%. Early in the shot clock they can and should look for ways to get the high percentage shots inside. But when that isn't there they have to look for an open three instead of forcing a low percentage short shot.
The second half of the Creighton game should provide a lesson. They only turned that game around when Mitchell, Sean, and Joplin made the open threes.
Butler is one of the less physical teams MU will face in the conference. The more physical teams will make getting the easy inside shots even more difficult.
Exactly. This is college basketball in 2024. Even if Marquette would have hit 30% of their first half threes, they would have been up by 20. The idea that Shaka should throw his offensive philosophy away and shoot more mid-range is not really a smart one.
As maddening as it can be, they gotta shoot themselves out of it. Take the open shots that the offense gets for you. Shoot them with confidence.
I'm sure there's some level of feeling down going on, but I think a lot of this talk is exagerated. Defensively, I thought the team did really well last night! (Went up to 9th ranked D on Kenpom after last nights game!) Good stats and lots of deflections and steals, good energy on D. On offense I even saw lots of good ball movement and some great individual moves that if the ball had gone in would have been excellent highlight reel stuff. The ball just wasn't going in... even on wide open quality shots.
Quote from: UWW2MU on January 11, 2024, 12:43:19 PM
I'm sure there's some level of feeling down going on, but I think a lot of this talk is exagerated. Defensively, I thought the team did really well last night! (Went up to 9th ranked D on Kenpom after last nights game!) Good stats and lots of deflections and steals, good energy on D. On offense I even saw lots of good ball movement and some great individual moves that if the ball had gone in would have been excellent highlight reel stuff. The ball just wasn't going in... even on wide open quality shots.
Thank you. This perspective is entirely reasonable. The sky is not falling.
Number 3 is spot on. Was the first time I've felt that way in a long time. With each three pointer clanking off the rim in the first half, we gave Butler life. Should have been up by 15-20 at half time. As the second half swoon started with more clanks off the rim, the final outcome seemed inevitable. Had to be up at 5:00 AM eastern time and went to bed with 15 min to go in the second half.
Woke up with even more bad news than anticipated with Sean's injury. Let's hope the boys find their range soon.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on January 11, 2024, 03:33:01 PM
Thank you. This perspective is entirely reasonable. The sky is not falling.
Duck your head, because yes it is.
Shooter
I fell asleep for several minutes late in the first half and turned it off with 2 to go. Was not jacked going into the game because figured it would be 10+ point win and turned it off because no interest in getting more frustrated than I already was. Was the first game this season, or last two plus, that I was not jacked prior to the game and did not get very into the game.
Quote from: Goose on January 11, 2024, 08:01:41 PM
Shooter
I fell asleep for several minutes late in the first half and turned it off with 2 to go. Was not jacked going into the game because figured it would be 10+ point win and turned it off because no interest in getting more frustrated than I already was. Was the first game this season, or last two plus, that I was not jacked prior to the game and did not get very into the game.
Hopefully they'll come around shortly. Complete incompetence shooting the three sucks the energy out of a team and fanbase in a hurry. Knowing that the defense is playing well and 2-3 more makes out of 25 shots would win the game is maddening. It's like watching a train wreck right now.
I do have hope based on the track record of our current roster that it will get better. So there's that.
You guys are both up later tonight than you were last night!
Probably for the best I suppose
Quote from: Spencer Pratt on January 10, 2024, 10:31:43 PM
These guys won the regular season and BET last year. Kolek was AA and BE POY. The only thing that did not go right last season was NCAA tourney.
With same team back, it's only human nature to not have the same motivation during the regular season as they did last year. Other than Maui, which was a huge stage, I've had the sense all season these guys are just waiting around for the NCAA tournament.
All that being said, tonight was garbage and took it to an entirely new level. I was not concerned about the recent mediocre play thinking they would get a 3-5 seed and turn it on come tourney time. Tonight leaves me worried. I hope Shaka says Kolek is coming off the flu or something we can wrap our head around because he looks uninterested
You should be more than worried
The play of past month has been terrible
Quote from: willie warrior on January 12, 2024, 05:40:15 AM
You should be more than worried
The play of past month has been terrible
Thanks, Wooly
Quote from: Goose on January 11, 2024, 08:01:41 PM
Shooter
I fell asleep for several minutes late in the first half and turned it off with 2 to go. Was not jacked going into the game because figured it would be 10+ point win and turned it off because no interest in getting more frustrated than I already was. Was the first game this season, or last two plus, that I was not jacked prior to the game and did not get very into the game.
I'm jealous. I wish I had fallen asleep and missed the second half.
I agree with the several scoopers who have commented that "something" is going on inside the team. The collapse has been so spectacular that conventional explanations are not, in my opinion, adequate in rationalizing it. Kolek is the most likely center of the "something". By nature, comments like mine and similar ones by others here are speculative. Having said that, I would like to hear other opinions regarding the "something is going on inside the team" theory.
I'd hate to be a UCLA fan (and one of my brothers is one), who lost by 46 points to Utah, for its 8th loss in the past 9 games. While maybe the pre-season expectations for them were not as high as for MU, and the fact that they are making our victory over them seem pedestrian, that fan base must be totally freaking out.
Quote from: mug644 on January 12, 2024, 09:01:55 AM
I'd hate to be a UCLA fan (and one of my brothers is one), who lost by 46 points to Utah, for its 8th loss in the past 9 games. While maybe the pre-season expectations for them were not as high as for MU, and the fact that they are making our victory over them seem pedestrian, that fan base must be totally freaking out.
MU Scoop motto... "at least we're not as bad as THAT team!"
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 12, 2024, 09:03:55 AM
MU Scoop motto... "at least we're not as bad as THAT team!"
Bingo! That's why we should be happy that DePaul is in the BE.
Been thinking a lot about Butler and the past few games, as well as going forward:
- Tyler and Kam were a combined 1/9 on unguarded threes. As a team, we were 3/18 on such shots, a paltry 0.5 ppp. I think the problem is the right people were taking those shots. TKO, Kam, and Jop accounted for 13/18 unguarded threes and I don't want guys to not shoot when they have those looks. We don't need to be elite from 3 to win, but we need to be decent. The unfortunate answer is we either need better shooters or those guys to shoot their way out of it. We can't fix the former right now, so it has to be the latter.
- This is a terrible time to get in a funk. We open Big East play with 4/6 at home and only played 1 game in the 14-day stretch from Dec 23-Jan 5. If we needed to refocus a shot or have some work with the sports psychologist, that was the perfect time. After Villanova, we play 6/8 on the road in a 29-day stretch. If they're going to get better, they have to do it during the toughest grind on the schedule.
- With O-Max gone and Chase and Sean both out for extended periods, we are not as fast and athletic as we were a year ago. With that in mind, it might be time to consider slowing the pace. If we get transition opportunities, take them, but our biggest strengths are protecting the ball, generating possessions through turnovers, passing, and converting inside. Keep working the pass to get not just good looks, but perfect ones. Continue the pressure defense and hope that a lower number of possessions will benefit the team that can win back more possessions in the turnover game. This seems to fly in the face of Nevada's plans, so maybe it won't be on the table, but other than "just make open shots" this seems like a viable change they can make.
- If we play that Butler game 100 times and get those same looks, we win 99 of them. If we make our averages based on the looks we got, we would've scored 100 points. No, that's not hyperbole, that's the Shot Quality number, which shows how abysmal that performance was. This was not a case of Butler making our life difficult. It was a case of us creating excellent looks all night long and just completely sh*tting the bed. The good news, we were still doing what we needed to do. The bad news, we didn't do what we needed to do. And yes, Tyler looked defeated the last 5-10 minutes and I don't know the answer for that.
- I agree with Goose that the ability is still within this team to do great things. What we saw in November and December was legit. But what they are now isn't that and isn't close to what I expected this team to be. In the words of Gary Parish, "I was wrong."
I think the fix is that practice should only consist of 3 pt shooting, dunks & FTs
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 12, 2024, 12:28:17 PM
I think the fix is that practice should only consist of 3 pt shooting, dunks & FTs
In most of our many losses this year, we've had a higher FT% than our opponent. Yaaay. #FTsNoMatta
I know, and I surely hope, that someone around here has figured out what needs to be done. What's obvious is that the team is not shooting well. Shooting is all about confidence. It's been talked about by coaches in gymnasiums for decades. All these guys can shoot and were the best players on their high school teams. I read that here recently.
The rotation has been reduced significantly with the loss of Chase Ross and Sean Jones. It means longer minutes for the starters and more minutes for the subs. It's time to tighten up the chin straps, as my old football coach would say.
Be more determined and play harder. Be more aggressive. Aggressiveness is what elevates a good team into a great team. Show us some fight. Push and shove for rebounds. I don't care if you foul. I don't care about getting in foul trouble. No one ever fouls out. Send some of these 30% free throw shooters to the line. Send them into the bonus because I'd rather see someone foul than see someone play soft. Enough matador defense. Play hard nosed basketball or go back to the locker room and knit some sweaters. Knock somebody down. Knock somebody out. Go watch some Mike Tyson tapes. Watch "Patton" or "Hoosiers". I'm watching it right now. It's getting me worked up.
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 12, 2024, 12:28:17 PM
I think the fix is that practice should only consist of 3 pt shooting, dunks & FTs
Push-ups for every miss!
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 12, 2024, 12:28:17 PM
I think the fix is that practice should only consist of 3 pt shooting, dunks & FTs
And perhaps some work on defense.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 12, 2024, 12:49:53 PM
In most of our many losses this year, we've had a higher FT% than our opponent. Yaaay. #FTsNoMatta
Truly JB Truly, you should know me after all this years.