My two cents: Disappointing loss today. A top ten team should beat an average team on the road, even if it just beat Uconn. Again MU came out strong and then fell behind in the first half. So, the manta is "We're a second half team." I've witnessed it, all too often. Why? I don't know why. And people say "We're a second half team. Don't worry the second half will be different."
What is going on here? MU has their entire team back from last year except from Omax. And it's different. The intensity isn't the same. He defended as well as anyone not named Dennis Rodman and yet Shaka did nothing to replace him. So we end up with Oso who is shooting 60 percent and Gold coming in to provide muscle? Don't wait for that to happen. We have what we have. Theo John and Jae Crowder aren't coming to the rescue. Amadeou should be getting more minutes.
Smart is trying to (in my opinion) to extend the team from six to nine so he is asking Tyler to give up the slog up the court after a made basket to conserve his energy. I saw it a couple of weeks ago and thought it was a reasonable strategy. Did Tyler lose his hyper determination to control the play and the offensive adjustments? No. He'll continue to be the player who makes the defense react. And he will benefit from the depth later in the season. I know it pains him not to be the focus of every trip down the court. Smart believes (in my opinion) that Sean Jones is the next Isaiah Thomas. And it would be a mistake not to develop his talent more than many would expect this early.
What is the answer here? MU isn't going to hammer anyone down low. Maurice Lucas died years ago. He's not suiting up. Smart is determined to replicate the Baylor Final Four Champion who won with big athletic guards who could guard on the perimeter (and not foul) shoot the three and rebound. It was all about defense. And it worked. Joplin and Ross need to work harder. They should be in the weight room constantly and they should be running sprints from the baseline to the baseline everyday for hours on end. MU needs players who will provide strength at the end.
I'm never discouraged in these situations, I only see opportunities. Work hard and play hard.
Not reading a book
Where are they going? Who knows? Marquette's ceiling is high. They've proven that. They have yet to prove this year that they can play at a consistently high level. That could still change but it's not trending that way yet. I'd guess this team still ends up top 4 in the BE and wins a game or two in the tourney. Most years that is a good year for Marquette. This year that might be a disappointment because of their high ceiling.
I assume back to Milwaukee. Their next game is at home
Home very early in the NCAAT if they don't figure it out and get better.
Everyone needs to have some perspective. Our record last year after 15 games: the exact same 11-4 we are today. Both years had losses to Purdue, Wisconsin, and at Providence. Last year we lost to Mississippi State; this year it was Seton Hall...the same team that blew out UConn and won at Providence.
This year's team beat the number one team in the country by 14 and the. Lost by three to number two. We beat Illinois on the road.
Our resume is better this year than it was last year at this point.
Let's hope that Kolek and Kam don't both disappear at the same time. We will be fine.
Thank you. An encouraging word. 11-4 just like last year at this point. And going home to regroup. Figure it out. Relax. Shovel some snow. Thank your wife for everything she's done and kiss your kids goodnight. It's not difficult. It's as simple as you can get. Life is easier than coaching bb.
Final Four probably
If you took the free throws off the board that SHU made after we twice fouled their three point shooter, MU walks out of there with a win and most of this stuff is moot.
Fouling a 3 point shooter is one of the stupidest, most undisciplined things you can do on a basketball court. Yet we insist on continuing to do it, game after game.
I would say eliminate stupid , undisciplined moves, and we'll be fine.
Agree, but this team does a lot of stupid things...
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on January 06, 2024, 10:58:21 PM
If you took the free throws off the board that SHU made after we twice fouled their three point shooter, MU walks out of there with a win and most of this stuff is moot.
Fouling a 3 point shooter is one of the stupidest, most undisciplined things you can do on a basketball court. Yet we insist on continuing to do it, game after game.
I would say eliminate stupid , undisciplined moves, and we'll be fine.
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 06, 2024, 11:04:18 PM
Agree, but this team does a lot of stupid things...
They mostly just miss open shots.
Defense is awesome, they win the turnover battle almost every game, they battle for 40 minutes.
Gotta find a way to make open shots. It is really that simple. Oh and stay healthy of course.
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on January 06, 2024, 10:31:42 PM
Everyone needs to have some perspective. Our record last year after 15 games: the exact same 11-4 we are today. Both years had losses to Purdue, Wisconsin, and at Providence. Last year we lost to Mississippi State; this year it was Seton Hall...the same team that blew out UConn and won at Providence.
This year's team beat the number one team in the country by 14 and the. Lost by three to number two. We beat Illinois on the road.
Our resume is better this year than it was last year at this point.
Let's hope that Kolek and Kam don't both disappear at the same time. We will be fine.
Last year's team was young and improving.
I don't think you can say the same this year.
The 3 games you mentioned took place 6 weeks ago.Since then there have been 3 (out of 3) very poor road performances, all of which were much uglier than the first two conference losses MU took last year.
At this point it doesn't look like the team is going to go as high or as far as preseason expectations would have taken it. Conference opponents seem to have adjusted to what MU did well last year and MU doesn't have the tools to respond. Not physical enough and not good enough 3 point shooting to overcome it.
Remember that last year's national champion lost seven conference games plus was beaten in the BE tournament.
Championships aren't won in January. Our defense is better than last year. The shots will start to fall. Perhaps some adversity will put the chip back on their shoulders that they played with last year.
The Big East is a great conference. Every game will be a battle. It's ridiculous to think we were going to steamroll over everyone, especially on the road.
See you in Phoenix in April.
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on January 07, 2024, 09:39:34 AM
Remember that last year's national champion lost seven conference games plus was beaten in the BE tournament.
Championships aren't won in January. Our defense is better than last year. The shots will start to fall. Perhaps some adversity will put the chip back on their shoulders that they played with last year.
The Big East is a great conference. Every game will be a battle. It's ridiculous to think we were going to steamroll over everyone, especially on the road.
See you in Phoenix in April.
Exactly. Some people need to take a chill pill. This team will lose more games. So will everyone else. We are in good shape with a solid resume for the post season.
As others have said, defense has been good. Kolek and Kam have to play well for this team to make a run in March. Without them, we may be the average team.
Kam Jones needs to break out of his slump.
In 4 BE games, Kam is shooting 32% FG and 22% 3FG. This team is going nowhere if he keeps shooting like that.
And Kam's getting open looks. Just gotta convert.
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on January 07, 2024, 09:39:34 AM
Remember that last year's national champion lost seven conference games plus was beaten in the BE tournament.
Championships aren't won in January.
Championships aren't won in January, but the foundations for them typically are laid now. UConn was an outlier in a Final Four where they were the highest seed left. The last 25 years, 68% of champions are 1-seeds and 92% are from the top 3 lines.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 07, 2024, 10:20:41 AM
Championships aren't won in January, but the foundations for them typically are laid now. UConn was an outlier in a Final Four where they were the highest seed left. The last 25 years, 68% of champions are 1-seeds and 92% are from the top 3 lines.
They were also integrating several transfers and freshmen into their rotation.
Understood about high seeds level of success in the tournament. Just saying that the level of panic among Scoopers is silly. The record is identical to last year after 15 games, with better wins. When the shots start falling, look out.
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on January 07, 2024, 10:32:05 AM
Understood about high seeds level of success in the tournament. Just saying that the level of panic among Scoopers is silly. The record is identical to last year after 15 games, with better wins. When the shots start falling, look out.
And if they don't ?
Also - very few (if any) are concerned about the arc of the program. However, speaking for myself, I'm concerned that the lofty expectations put forth before the season will not come to fruition because of several flaws which continue to show.
panda
If they don't shoot better expectations will probably not be met. Unfortunately, they likely will figure out the shooting and a bad shooting day will do them in. Everyone will be ready to bounce in March or April if shooting ends their season.
If some of y'all want to already think we're doomed because Kam and our other good shooters will never start hitting more shots, knock yourselves out.
Must be exhausting to always think the worst.
Well, being a Lions has prepared me well.
I guess if you don't think MU's recent performances have affected expectations you should look at the KenPom projections. At the start of the conference season he projected MU to finish 15-5 in the conference, and after just 4
Conference games they are now at 13-7.
I'm not sure there's a lot of panic going on, I've seen scoop much much worse...
See: any game in the Wojo era or after UNC tourney loss.
It's sometimes easy to wonder if those that are claiming mass hysteria or panic are actually the ones panicking.
I'm sure if there's one thing we can all agree upon it's that this season hasn't been as enjoyable as last up to this point- that Kansas game was the pinnacle, sorry for anyone that slept thru that one because it was amazing- and the Texas and 1H ND were great.
Such is life in the fast lane of lofty expectations.
Let's fire it back up with the longest home winning streak in BE history!
Quote from: DoctorV on January 07, 2024, 01:30:38 PM
I'm sure if there's one thing we can all agree upon it's that this season hasn't been as enjoyable as last up to this point
I enjoyed watching Marquette thoroughly dominate Kansas. I enjoyed winning at Illinois. I enjoyed the comeback vs. UCLA. I enjoyed the destruction of Texas. I enjoyed being there in person for the total annihilation of Notre Dame. I always enjoy beating Creighton anytime anywhere.
I'm enjoying this season every bit as much through 15 games as I enjoyed last season through 15 games, and I'm not sure why you would claim to know that all of us enjoyed last season more through this point.
Will I enjoy the next 15 games as much? We'll see!
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on January 06, 2024, 10:31:42 PM
Everyone needs to have some perspective. Our record last year after 15 games: the exact same 11-4 we are today. Both years had losses to Purdue, Wisconsin, and at Providence. Last year we lost to Mississippi State; this year it was Seton Hall...the same team that blew out UConn and won at Providence.
This year's team beat the number one team in the country by 14 and the. Lost by three to number two. We beat Illinois on the road.
Our resume is better this year than it was last year at this point.
Let's hope that Kolek and Kam don't both disappear at the same time. We will be fine.
This is my first time on Scoop since the loss. I have begun practicing a self-imposed 24-hour moratorium of coming here any sooner after losses, because I know what is here. The word "if" is probably the most common one in so many posts, but "could have, should have, would have" are also common.
Thanks for putting things in perspective. I'm mostly in agreement with your optimism after you stated the facts, but there is something about our performance since Maui that makes me a bit skeptical.
Quote from: MU82 on January 07, 2024, 01:39:34 PM
I enjoyed watching Marquette thoroughly dominate Kansas. I enjoyed winning at Illinois. I enjoyed the comeback vs. UCLA. I enjoyed the destruction of Texas. I enjoyed being there in person for the total annihilation of Notre Dame. I always enjoy beating Creighton anytime anywhere.
I'm enjoying this season every bit as much through 15 games as I enjoyed last season through 15 games, and I'm not sure why you would claim to know that all of us enjoyed last season more through this point.
Will I enjoy the next 15 games as much? We'll see!
Ok fair.
It'll be a tough task to enjoy the next 15 as much as last years next 15 because that stretch led to something like 1 loss and a BE ship.
Anything's possible though!
The 6-9 after that next 15 are the ones that will likely really matter this season
Quote from: DoctorV on January 07, 2024, 02:03:10 PM
Ok fair.
It'll be a tough task to enjoy the next 15 as much as last years next 15 because that stretch led to something like 1 loss and a BE ship.
Anything's possible though!
The 6-9 after that next 15 are the ones that will likely really matter this season
We're in agreement about all of that. You're a good fan, and I know you only want what we all want - another natty before we leave this earth!
Quote from: MU82 on January 07, 2024, 02:06:55 PM
We're in agreement about all of that. You're a good fan, and I know you only want what we all want - another natty before we leave this earth!
From my perspective...get on with it, dammit! I dodged a bullet once already, and might not fare as well if there is a repeat ;D
I'm enjoying the season but not
quite at the same level as last year. Being the Cinderella of the major teams was a ton of fun.
There's plenty of time to plug the leaks in the SS Marquette as she sails to a natty.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 07, 2024, 02:22:26 PM
From my perspective...get on with it, dammit! I dodged a bullet once already, and might not fare as well if there is a repeat ;D
I'm enjoying the season but not quite at the same level as last year. Being the Cinderella of the major teams was a ton of fun.
There's plenty of time to plug the leaks in the SS Marquette as she sails to a natty.
The point was whether one is enjoying the season through 15 games as much as one enjoyed last season through 15 games.
We have the same record, have been ranked higher and have better wins, including thrashing the No. 1 team in the nation on a neutral court. Despite a few disappointments, I have enjoyed this season so far ... just as I enjoyed last season through the first 15 games despite a few disappointments.
Games 16-35 ... yes, I enjoyed those tremendously last season. We'll see if this next 19-game stretch is as enjoyable.
Quote from: MU82 on January 07, 2024, 02:51:38 PM
The point was whether one is enjoying the season through 15 games as much as one enjoyed last season through 15 games.
We have the same record, have been ranked higher and have better wins, including thrashing the No. 1 team in the nation on a neutral court. Despite a few disappointments, I have enjoyed this season so far ... just as I enjoyed last season through the first 15 games despite a few disappointments.
Games 16-35 ... yes, I enjoyed those tremendously last season. We'll see if this next 19-game stretch is as enjoyable.
Oh I
got the point. How is my reply not in keeping with it? I addressed "the point". Your response seems a little touchy to me.
Snoop
I have enjoyed this season a great deal, but more stressful than last season. I do think the intensity starting with Illinois game through the Texas game seemed like a whole season to me, not 6 or 7 games. I told myself on Thanksgiving that this is going to be a long journey and to pace my emotions as a fan. Thus far, mission accomplished on not getting too high or too low.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 07, 2024, 02:56:16 PM
Oh I got the point. How is my reply not in keeping with it? I addressed "the point". Your response seems a little touchy to me.
Not touchy at all, my good man. Go Marquette!
Quote from: Goose on January 07, 2024, 03:05:28 PM
Snoop
I have enjoyed this season a great deal, but more stressful than last season. I do think the intensity starting with Illinois game through the Texas game seemed like a whole season to me, not 6 or 7 games. I told myself on Thanksgiving that this is going to be a long journey and to pace my emotions as a fan. Thus far, mission accomplished on not getting too high or too low.
Pace. That's a great word here Goose. As I said earlier in this thread, I place a 24 hour self-moratorium on my going here after a loss because I know what would await me. I am able to move on shortly after the losses, but that does not mean
in any way that I am OK with them. Also. this does not mean that I am suggesting others do likewise. Being an entrepreneur changed the way I handle failures, disappointments, etc. Learn from the experiences and put them in the rear-view mirror.
I get the "stressful" Goose. Our expectations are higher (well,
mine are anyway). To repeat what I said earlier here, being the Cinderella of major teams last year was a big part of my enjoyment. Casey Jacobsen asked the rhetorical question "why did we forecast Marquette to finish in 9th place in the BE?" and answered "because we're
dumb, that's why!". ;D
Patience. Pace. Take a deep breath and enjoy the rest of the season, right?
Quote from: Farley36 on January 06, 2024, 09:11:53 PM
Where are they going? Who knows? Marquette's ceiling is high. They've proven that. They have yet to prove this year that they can play at a consistently high level. That could still change but it's not trending that way yet. I'd guess this team still ends up top 4 in the BE and wins a game or two in the tourney. Most years that is a good year for Marquette. This year that might be a disappointment because of their high ceiling.
That would be disappointing. The real problem-Joplinn, Gold and Ross have not developed/improved enough from last year.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 07, 2024, 04:34:20 PM
That would be disappointing. The real problem-Joplinn, Gold and Ross have not developed/improved enough from last year.
I've never stayed tab the Jopl Inn. How is the service?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 07, 2024, 04:37:20 PM
I've never stayed tab the Jopl Inn. How is the service?
Hit or miss
Bravo.
This entire regular season seems like a drawn out opening act for the headliner. Do I want to win the Big East again? Of course. Would I trade that for 4+ wins in the tournament? In a heartbeat.
I think the team is feeling that too to an extent. My hope is that things sharpen up as we get down to crunch time.
I agree this is the opening act. The strong non conference performance made the BE somewhat less important. I hope that is the case because I totally get it. This group has played a ton of important games over past 1.5 years and are battle tested.
Lower expectations...that's where.
Will enjoy road wins now rather than expect them.
Will be pleasantly surprised at BE and BET champs like last year...rather than expect it.
Will expect a 3 seed rather than a 1 or 2...and if we get a 2...great. like last year.
I will still expect sweet 16 but not final 4. Not that I won't root for it with passion.
It has always been a truism that conference road wins are worth their weight in gold. Maybe a return to that mindset instead of just assuming victory.
Quote from: tower912 on January 07, 2024, 07:06:42 PM
It has always been a truism that conference road wins are worth their weight in gold. Maybe a return to that mindset instead of just assuming victory.
It was also a truism this year that posters who listed 15-5 as their expectation for MU this conference season were instantly tagged with the lame COLE label.
Winning on the road has always been difficult, but it's more difficult for teams that routinely fall behind by double digits.
CORE?
Cult
Of
Realistic
Expectations
I would wear that one as a badge of honor.
Quote from: tower912 on January 08, 2024, 07:40:01 AM
CORE?
Cult
Of
Realistic
Expectations
I would wear that one as a badge of honor.
Typo.
I consider myself a member of CORE, but it's a Community or Council of Realistic Expectations, not a cult. I save that term for people with strange and misguided beliefs not people with rational opinions.
Realistic expectations are ridiculed here.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on January 06, 2024, 10:58:21 PM
If you took the free throws off the board that SHU made after we twice fouled their three point shooter, MU walks out of there with a win and most of this stuff is moot.
Fouling a 3 point shooter is one of the stupidest, most undisciplined things you can do on a basketball court. Yet we insist on continuing to do it, game after game.
I would say eliminate stupid , undisciplined moves, and we'll be fine.
A couple of plays don't erase the reality of consistently falling behind by double digits, including in all 4 losses.
If by "fine" you mean a first round bye in the BET and a 6 or 7 seed in the NCAA tournament you're probably right. But making the second weekend of the NCAA is going to take more than that.
Nice. I like CORE as well. I was unrealistic in my preseason predictions based on many things. But one big reason was my desire to see this method of relationships, growth and victory work to its fullest. This was and is a great opportunity to prove it.
As many pointed out our leaders need to play well and if they do the continuity of this concept should pay big dividends. Kolek and Kam did not vs Seton Hall and I am not sure why. Hopefully just a mid season slump or temporary lack of focus that will be corrected. A portal transfer may have given the team a little more wiggle room for upperclassmen slumps to occur without losing. But the team pointedly chose not to do this.
In the end the amount of victories this conference season matters with regard to seeding. But whether you picked 2 conference losses or 8 conference losses, if MU is playing its best basketball at the end of the season the proof of concept will have worked and we'll all be loving it. Go MU!
I think our relationships are hurting in the "room". Not being funny, Shaka has made comments in recent post games about how there is turmoil and passionate conversations among the coaches and players. Oso and Kolek look out of sync from how they started this year. You dont see a ton of pick and rolls anymore. You dont see a ton of Oso ISO's anymore. Jop doesnt let the ball go once its in his hands. Shaka made a comment after SH about how other players dont have the same passion to win as Oso. Just my two cents but i think attitudes are coming out amongst the lads.
Quote from: BobWildLoyalist on January 08, 2024, 09:03:59 AM
I think our relationships are hurting in the "room". Not being funny, Shaka has made comments in recent post games about how there is turmoil and passionate conversations among the coaches and players. Oso and Kolek look out of sync from how they started this year. You dont see a ton of pick and rolls anymore. You dont see a ton of Oso ISO's anymore. Jop doesnt let the ball go once its in his hands. Shaka made a comment after SH about how other players dont have the same passion to win as Oso. Just my two cents but i think attitudes are coming out amongst the lads.
😂
Quote from: wisblue on January 08, 2024, 08:21:14 AM
Typo.
I consider myself a member of CORE, but it's a Community or Council of Realistic Expectations, not a cult. I save that term for people with strange and misguided beliefs not people with rational opinions.
Realistic expectations are ridiculed here.
Tell me about it.
Quote from: wisblue on January 08, 2024, 08:21:14 AM
Realistic expectations are ridiculed here.
OMG...is everyone a victim?
BobWild
I do not totally disagree and not concerned about it. The top 8 guys have been together everyday for 2+ years and getting agitated with each other is normal. I mentioned after Georgetown that I thought Kolek was frustrated with some of the guys and I still feel that way. They have had a good number of battles together and confident that if there is an issue, it will get figured out.
IMO, Kolek has some Tom Brady in him. He does not seem like a guy that accepts teammates not giving 100% all of the time. To be honest, adversity can be a great thing providing it gets figured out.
I have no idea if there is adversity currently, but definitely understandable. Shaka's comments seem to me to be challenge to the guys vs. something that can be fixed.
Quote from: DoctorV on January 07, 2024, 01:30:38 PM
I'm not sure there's a lot of panic going on, I've seen scoop much much worse...
See: any game in the Wojo era or after UNC tourney loss.
It's sometimes easy to wonder if those that are claiming mass hysteria or panic are actually the ones panicking.
I'm sure if there's one thing we can all agree upon it's that this season hasn't been as enjoyable as last up to this point- that Kansas game was the pinnacle, sorry for anyone that slept thru that one because it was amazing- and the Texas and 1H ND were great.
Such is life in the fast lane of lofty expectations.
Let's fire it back up with the longest home winning streak in BE history!
This is great insight. There seems to be more talk of panic in this thread than actual panic.
Quote from: Goose on January 08, 2024, 09:42:30 AM
BobWild
I do not totally disagree and not concerned about it. The top 8 guys have been together everyday for 2+ years and getting agitated with each other is normal. I mentioned after Georgetown that I thought Kolek was frustrated with some of the guys and I still feel that way. They have had a good number of battles together and confident that if there is an issue, it will get figured out.
IMO, Kolek has some Tom Brady in him. He does not seem like a guy that accepts teammates not giving 100% all of the time. To be honest, adversity can be a great thing providing it gets figured out.
I have no idea if there is adversity currently, but definitely understandable. Shaka's comments seem to me to be challenge to the guys vs. something that can be fixed.
Agreed, Bobs point is well taken. Friction occurs during a season and really several seasons together. And your point that it could be a good thing providing they work it out could also be right. This is going to be fun to watch play out.
Quote from: Goose on January 08, 2024, 09:42:30 AM
BobWild
I do not totally disagree and not concerned about it. The top 8 guys have been together everyday for 2+ years and getting agitated with each other is normal. I mentioned after Georgetown that I thought Kolek was frustrated with some of the guys and I still feel that way. They have had a good number of battles together and confident that if there is an issue, it will get figured out.
IMO, Kolek has some Tom Brady in him. He does not seem like a guy that accepts teammates not giving 100% all of the time. To be honest, adversity can be a great thing providing it gets figured out.
I have no idea if there is adversity currently, but definitely understandable. Shaka's comments seem to me to be challenge to the guys vs. something that can be fixed.
Shaka is specifically praising Oso for his commitment to winning every day and then name checking TKo and Kam.
Trying to motivate his star backcourt?