Marquette sucked ass and deserved to lose even in a perfectly officiated game...
... but holy crap James Breeding finds new ways to be bad.
Agree completely.....but that will not be a popular opinion around here.
Please explain the Oso punch to the jaw flagrant????
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 19, 2023, 10:17:56 PM
Agree completely.....but that will not be a popular opinion around here.
Please explain the Oso punch to the jaw flagrant????
https://x.com/mjdemarinis/status/1737325081745830045?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
James.breeding@louisville.edu
Yes the actually James Breeding, not some poor random professor.
(It's public mods, not doxxing anyone)
Happened with 14 seconds left on the shot clock. I'm still wondering why it wasn't it called a foul right away and then go to the monitor for a flagrant review.
The officiating in this game was horrifically one sided. Didn't change the outcome tho.
Quote from: MUDPT on December 19, 2023, 10:19:54 PM
Happened with 14 seconds left on the shot clock. I'm still wondering why it wasn't it called a foul right away and then go to the monitor for a flagrant review.
I guess it was like holding in football, free play for providence.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on December 19, 2023, 10:20:10 PM
The officiating in this game was horrifically one sided. Didn't change the outcome tho.
Probably not, but it did set the tone by letting Providence know how much physicality they could get away with, which was quite a bit.
I still think that's the wrong call. That contact was incidental and wasn't forceful.
But at least there was something there. Still a bit confused why they could go back? I've watched Shaka ask for plenty of reviews that the refs deny.
He is truly the worst, especially because he so arrogantly thinks he's great. Even Ayers (a darn good ref) couldn't hem him in tonight.
Just for the record, Pat the Hack Driscoll is the second worst, and Mr. High Knees completes the trifecta.
But let's be honest. As bad as he is, James (Rats) Breeding didn't change the outcome tonight.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 19, 2023, 10:19:32 PM
https://x.com/mjdemarinis/status/1737325081745830045?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
No whistle on the court?
Quote from: MUDPT on December 19, 2023, 10:19:54 PM
Happened with 14 seconds left on the shot clock. I'm still wondering why it wasn't it called a foul right away and then go to the monitor for a flagrant review.
Standby....
There doesn't have to be an initial whistle to review a potential flagrant.
What happens if play continues uninterrupted for several minutes? Do they look at it and award free throws two minutes later?
I also don't understand why it was four free throws and the ball.
Isn't it the two flagrant shots, then the shooting foul free throws is you getting the ball back?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 19, 2023, 10:25:10 PM
There doesn't have to be an initial whistle to review a potential flagrant.
It was officiated correctly. Though bad luck for MU that it wasn't called initially. Providence only scored 2 points in that whole ordeal anyway.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 19, 2023, 10:26:39 PM
What happens if play continues uninterrupted for several minutes? Do they look at it and award free throws two minutes later?
I also don't understand why it was four free throws and the ball.
Isn't it the two flagrant shots, then the shooting foul free throws is you getting the ball back?
In Providence Rhode Island they do.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 19, 2023, 10:26:39 PM
What happens if play continues uninterrupted for several minutes? Do they look at it and award free throws two minutes later?
I also don't understand why it was four free throws and the ball.
Isn't it the two flagrant shots, then the shooting foul free throws is you getting the ball back?
They called a shooting foul on Chase, then reviewed and called the flagrant. They handled it right though I didn't think there was a foul on Chase.
Here's where my problem is and it'sa problem with the rule itself.
They shouldn't get 4 free throws if the flagrant happens earlier in the play. If you think there's a flagrant, blow it dead and review it. They got an extra possession because of the ineptitude of the crew.
This is really on Shaka. Guys should have been prepared not to get a whistle all night. They let the refs affect them and didn't make adjustments.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 19, 2023, 10:31:32 PM
Here's where my problem is and it'sa problem with the rule itself.
They shouldn't get 4 free throws if the flagrant happens earlier in the play. If you think there's a flagrant, blow it dead and review it. They got an extra possession because of the ineptitude of the crew.
Exactly
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 19, 2023, 10:29:41 PM
They called a shooting foul on Chase, then reviewed and called the flagrant. They handled it right though I didn't think there was a foul on Chase.
Sultan...serious question....do you know the parameters of a call(flagrant or otherwise?)
Same position? 30 seconds? 3 minutes?
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 19, 2023, 10:48:09 PM
Sultan...serious question....do you know the parameters of a call(flagrant or otherwise?)
Same position? 30 seconds? 3 minutes?
I believe it's the next dead ball.
Finally saw the flagrant. Fourth stupid foul by Oso tonight. I do NOT understand why it was not whistled when it happened. Flagrant is flagrant, they shouldn't have to review tape.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 19, 2023, 10:56:12 PM
Finally saw the flagrant. Fourth stupid foul by Oso tonight. I do NOT understand why it was not whistled when it happened. Flagrant is flagrant, they shouldn't have to review tape.
They didn't. It was digital video. 😉
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 19, 2023, 10:57:53 PM
They didn't. It was digital video. 😉
Amongst the sh!t show, that made me laugh.
Question for the board: During time outs in the game English was looking at replays on his iPad, like in the NFL. Is this even allowed on the sidelines in the NCAA basketball? I have never seen this in college hoops.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 19, 2023, 11:02:18 PM
Question for the board: During time outs in the game English was looking at replays on his iPad, like in the NFL. Is this even allowed on the sidelines in the NCAA basketball? I have never seen this in college hoops.
Answered my own question. Now allowed.
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/rules/men/2023-24PRMBB_RulesChanges.pdf
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 19, 2023, 10:31:32 PM
Here's where my problem is and it'sa problem with the rule itself.
They shouldn't get 4 free throws if the flagrant happens earlier in the play. If you think there's a flagrant, blow it dead and review it. They got an extra possession because of the ineptitude of the crew.
Correct. Either was a foul and they check to see it was flagrant or it was nothing. It's ridiculous to go back and look at something that was or wasn't a foul from 30 seconds ago and have TWO fouls called on the same play.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 20, 2023, 08:06:14 AM
Correct. Either was a foul and they check to see it was flagrant or it was nothing. It's ridiculous to go back and look at something that was or wasn't a foul from 30 seconds ago and have TWO fouls called on the same play.
Breeding also ejected Theo John on the play for old time sake.
It is ridiculous, especially since Chase didn't foul anyone, but the process was correctly applied.
Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on December 19, 2023, 10:36:12 PM
This is really on Shaka. Guys should have been prepared not to get a whistle all night. They let the refs affect them and didn't make adjustments.
Not sure it's on Shaka. He probably emphasized this in practice and before the game. People have short memories and the players needed to experience this again for it to sink in. Hopefully it has sunk in for the rest of the season.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 20, 2023, 08:21:54 AM
It is ridiculous, especially since Chase didn't foul anyone, but the process was correctly applied.
It was but the process needs to be cleaned up. Either they get the four free throws or the extra possession in the post-play review. The Ross foul was the extra possession in reality.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 20, 2023, 08:21:54 AM
It is ridiculous, especially since Chase didn't foul anyone, but the process was correctly applied.
The process shouldn't exist.
Anyone know why Hopkins got 3 free throws on a shot that was clearly after the shot clock had gone off? Did they rule it in process like continuation? Otherwise, it should have been a common non-shooting foul and 2 shots.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 20, 2023, 08:30:03 AM
It was but the process needs to be cleaned up. Either they get the four free throws or the extra possession in the post-play review. The Ross foul was the extra possession in reality.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 20, 2023, 08:30:23 AM
The process shouldn't exist.
The alternatives are to go back in time to when the incident occurred and erase everything that happened after, or have no replay reviews of potential flagrants that aren't initially whistled. I can see either one of these having just as many problems as what occurred last night.
Quote from: MUDPT on December 20, 2023, 08:33:54 AM
Anyone know why Hopkins got 3 free throws on a shot that was clearly after the shot clock had gone off? Did they rule it in process like continuation? Otherwise, it should have been a common non-shooting foul and 2 shots.
Did you watch the rest of the game?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 20, 2023, 08:34:28 AM
The alternatives are to go back in time to when the incident occurred and erase everything that happened after, or have no replay reviews of potential flagrants that aren't initially whistled. I can see either one of these having just as many problems as what occurred last night.
I'm on the no replay of flagrant fouls. If the foul wasn't caught in real time it shouldn't exist.
Or if we are going to play review police then we should just review every questionable call... like the one Chase was called for. Bring out the red flags! Applying it for one situation and not the other is dumb. But review at all in basketball is dumb... except maaaaaaybe on a goal tend.
Or don't hit someone in the face.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 20, 2023, 08:34:28 AM
The alternatives are to go back in time to when the incident occurred and erase everything that happened after, or have no replay reviews of potential flagrants that aren't initially whistled. I can see either one of these having just as many problems as what occurred last night.
A rule that awards an extra possession due to officials not seeing a foul live is just silly (versus if they actually did their job and called the flagrant live). It should be an "either or" situation if you are going to allow a review after continued play. Why do you reward a team an extra possession for referee incompetence?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 20, 2023, 08:41:13 AM
Or don't hit someone in the face.
Sounds easy but when players are coached to box out or be physical, it can be pretty hard if you're not looking right at the guy.
The rule should be revised for intent or overt action. Play on basketball should still exist.
An F1 is like porn, you know it when you see it. Incidental contact to the head or neck in the normal playing of basketball shouldn't alter the game the way it has been.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 20, 2023, 08:58:25 AM
Sounds easy but when players are coached to box out or be physical, it can be pretty hard if you're not looking right at the guy.
The rule should be revised for intent or overt action. Play on basketball should still exist.
An F1 is like porn, you know it when you see it. Incidental contact to the head or neck in the normal playing of basketball shouldn't alter the game the way it has been.
Another problem is they look at this in slow motion. Everything looks worse.
If they need to consult a monitor to make a flagrant call it should be in real-time.
Cmon now. It was clearly an F1.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 20, 2023, 09:03:24 AM
Cmon now. It was clearly an F1.
The call on Oso last night, no doubt.
I'm saying in general, there needs to be room for guys to make basketball plays, even if it results in contact above the neck. A big on little matchup can easily lead to contact above the neck of the smaller player, but it's a legal basketball play. Right now they're not really allowing for that. Frankly I'm surprised they didn't hit Chase with one when he popped Carter after getting pushed.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 20, 2023, 09:08:10 AM
The call on Oso last night, no doubt.
I'm saying in general, there needs to be room for guys to make basketball plays, even if it results in contact above the neck. A big on little matchup can easily lead to contact above the neck of the smaller player, but it's a legal basketball play. Right now they're not really allowing for that. Frankly I'm surprised they didn't hit Chase with one when he popped Carter after getting pushed.
Yep, agree on all counts. A smaller defender should look to position his head near where he expects the larger ball handler's hands or elbows to go.
But you know, ethics and all that...
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 20, 2023, 09:03:24 AM
Cmon now. It was clearly an F1.
Yep
The refs did a bad job last night and thankfully nobody besides Ross got injured, and that was just a misplaced foot.
Quote from: MUDPT on December 20, 2023, 08:33:54 AM
Anyone know why Hopkins got 3 free throws on a shot that was clearly after the shot clock had gone off? Did they rule it in process like continuation? Otherwise, it should have been a common non-shooting foul and 2 shots.
I believe because the foul happened before the shot clock went off. I think Kam got his elbow right before it went to 0.
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 20, 2023, 11:10:30 AM
I believe because the foul happened before the shot clock went off. I think Kam got his elbow right before it went to 0.
That, plus there were no tenths on the shot clock, and re-watching the ball was (just) out of his hand when the buzzer sounded.
Breeding back at it in the Creighton / Nova game last night.
https://x.com/cbbonfox/status/1737685204955734078?s=46&t=jxqs74xjrj0YOEifH9UtCw
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 21, 2023, 05:54:59 AM
Breeding back at it in the Creighton / Nova game last night.
https://x.com/cbbonfox/status/1737685204955734078?s=46&t=jxqs74xjrj0YOEifH9UtCw
Would have lost it if I were Neptune. Clearly a shot clock violation. At least Nova got the win.