I hate that we lost to Wisconsin but, at the end of the day, winning in March is way more important. I'd live to win the Big East Regular season and then at LEAST get to that S16/E8 round. Knowing that we are going to lose Oso, this year is a great chance to get back to a FF.
That being said, it just seems odd to me that Shaka obviously has figured out how to win the Big East, which included beating the national champs twice last year. Over the past two years he has blown the doors off of the best 3 teams in the Big 12 (Baylor, Texas, and Kansas). What is it about B10 teams that they figure us out. We have two close wins against IL in Shaka's era, but multiple losses to Purdue, Wisconsin, and the loss to MSU in the tourney. What is more odd to me, it's not as if the B10 is lighting the world on fire in the NCAA tourney (ie they dominate other conferences as well).
I say this only as an observation not a concern. I 100000% love Shaka and I love what he is doing here. The Fiserv is on fire these days and I want Shaka to stay forever. Maybe it is just coincidence that we have had come bad shooting nights against these B10 teams and there is nothing more to it than that.
Marquette struggles with teams that play a gap-oriented, drop defense. That's pretty much what UW and MSU play. Purdue has just been better.
End the thread. Well said, Sultan.
So yesterday I woke up at 3:30 in the morning and did a look into Shakas all time non con records vs power conferences.
B1G 6-14
B12 7-0
SEC 7-6
ACC 10-4 (still have ND left)
PAC 7-3
It's really astonishing how drastically different the results against the B1G are, not just for us but among three different schools.
So ... the road to a FF is to avoid a
B 10/14 team in March ?
Possible, but unlikely ...
The results above are stunning.
Quote from: Mu8891 on December 07, 2023, 08:13:59 AM
So ... the road to a FF is to avoid a
B 10/14 team in March ?
Possible, but unlikely ...
The results above are stunning.
No it's fine to play a B1G team as long as it's Illinois
Quote from: Mu8891 on December 07, 2023, 08:13:59 AM
So ... the road to a FF is to avoid a
B 10/14 team in March ?
Possible, but unlikely ...
The results above are stunning.
Your solution is?
I'd be happy if fate brought Marquette together again with Madison in, say, the Elite 8 (though I'd be pretty surprised if Madison could win 3x to get there). Play them on a neutral court with all of our guys clicking ... I like our chances.
Also, we beat a real good Illinois team on the road less than a month ago, and had a shot against Purdue despite almost everything going wrong.
If we have a long March run, we probably will play a Big 947 team at some point. It will be a challenge, just as most NCAAT games are. I'm confident we'll prevail.
Quote from: Mu8891 on December 07, 2023, 08:13:59 AM
So ... the road to a FF is to avoid a
B 10/14 team in March ?
Possible, but unlikely ...
The results above are stunning.
If we don't match up with one in the first weekend we'll be good. They fizzle out of the tourney fast
Quote from: MU82 on December 07, 2023, 08:20:29 AM
I'd be happy if fate brought Marquette together again with Madison in, say, the Elite 8 (though I'd be pretty surprised if Madison could win 3x to get there). Play them on a neutral court with all of our guys clicking ... I like our chances.
Also, we beat a real good Illinois team on the road less than a month ago, and had a shot against Purdue despite almost everything going wrong.
If we have a long March run, we probably will play a Big 947 team at some point. It will be a challenge, just as most NCAAT games are. I'm confident we'll prevail.
Wisconsin is playing REALLY well right now. I wouldn't count them out of anything.
Big Ten plays dirtbag basketball
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 07, 2023, 07:59:10 AM
Marquette struggles with teams that play a gap-oriented, drop defense. That's pretty much what UW and MSU play. Purdue has just been better.
It's as much this as what Marquette does on the defensive end, and the styles/tempos of the opponents.
Offensively it's tough because of what Sultan said.
Defensively Shakas up tempo havoc/deflection driven teams likely don't quite manage to turn over B10 teams in the same effective way as other squads.
B10 teams are used to playing slow as hell- Marquettes defense, if it doesn't get a turnover or deflection, is still effective in a sense that it eats up 20s of the clock and forces most teams to panic into a bad shot. B10 teams on the whole seem used to playing slow af and used to waiting late in the shot clock to surgically take a shot, so they likely aren't as rattled. They also don't seem to turn the ball over as much, goes back to the slow tempo fundamentals.
Then, when the ball goes up, the rebounding. Been a weakness of the Shaka style his entire career, and those BIG teams have likely benefitted as we saw Saturday.
It would be cool for some savant to gather the +- turnover and rebounding data in those games, they would probably be eye opening compared to typical Shaka coached games.
FWIW I've fully decided that the path to March and April success for this years team is rebounding.
Yesterday was night and day different than Saturday.
The one that's really an eye opener for me though is Marquette beating a very good Kansas team even though MU shot poorly from 3- they defended well, rebounded very well, and were good from 2.
MU will score, MU will defend- I can't believe how big of a statistical improvement this year has been defensively!- but we aren't sure MU will knock down open 3s or rebound.
I'm of the belief that Shaka needs to continue to hammer the team swarming defensive and occasional offensive rebounding to stay respectable here and win the big games in March
one thing we were doing against UCLA Kansas and Purdue that we don't seem to be anymore was batting the ball out instead of going for the rebound. Is there a reason for this? I actually thought it was a clever solution to our rebounding issues
Quote from: seakm4 on December 07, 2023, 08:23:37 AM
If we don't match up with one in the first weekend we'll be good. They fizzle out of the tourney fast
Yep......one natty since the '80s.
Sultan is spot on.
If we wake up earlier and not just let Klesmit shoot wide-open 3s for an entire half, if we hit a couple more 3s, and if we don't bobble 3-4 rebounds out of bounds, we probably win in Madison despite playing a poor game.
Purdue ended up being a coin flip despite MU playing a disastrous (and unlucky) first half.
We won in Champaign.
If we play any Big Ten school at any point in the NCAA tournament, I will be as confident as if we're playing any good team in the NCAAT - which, after the first round, they pretty much all will be.
In fairness Klesmit was sub 30% from 3 on the year before that game.
Quote from: MU82 on December 07, 2023, 10:22:16 AM
If we wake up earlier and not just let Klesmit shoot wide-open 3s for an entire half, if we hit a couple more 3s, and if we don't bobble 3-4 rebounds out of bounds, we probably win in Madison despite playing a poor game.
Purdue ended up being a coin flip despite MU playing a disastrous (and unlucky) first half.
We won in Champaign.
If we play any Big Ten school at any point in the NCAA tournament, I will be as confident as if we're playing any good team in the NCAAT - which, after the first round, they pretty much all will be.
I don't disagree with any of this and can add some of the similar storylines to last years UW and Purdue game and MSU even. That said 6-14 (2-6 @MU, 7 if you count the secret scrimmage) to me is a large enough sample size of unlucky Shaka teams to the point where I'd prefer (given the option) to play a different conference's teams.