Winter meetings getting under way and should be one of the more interesting offseasons in recent memory
Brewers bring back Wade Miley. Fan of his.
Bigger news is the commitment to Jackson Chourio. Bold move with a lot of upside and could also blowup. Consensus seems to be it was a smart move by both
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 04, 2023, 02:30:14 PM
Brewers bring back Wade Miley. Fan of his.
Bigger news is the commitment to Jackson Chourio. Bold move with a lot of upside and could also blowup. Consensus seems to be it was a smart move by both
I like it on its face. It's the kind of move small-market and mid-market teams need to make.
The Chourio deal is the type of swing the Brewers can afford to make and need to make. Chourio's floor seems very very high as a great defensive outfielder that can fly and make routinely good contact. You pay for that.
Meanwhile, the Brewers have a lot of wheels in their OF and not all of them can stick. I don't see an everyday OF in Wiemer (whereas I do with Mitchell and Frelick). Some guys will be on the move (Taylor)
Hinch signs extension with Tigers.
I wish he would. Hitting needs to improve.
Watch out league! There's a new sheriff in town.
https://x.com/scottmerkin/status/1731809139473477792?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg
It's supposedly down to the Dodgers, Angels, Giants, Cubs and Blue Jays for Ohtani.
If winning is actually his #1 goal, not sure how he could choose anybody but the Dodgers out of this group. A few of the others have some good pieces and they could win ... but the Dodgers are legit title contenders year after year after year, and they will never use $$$ as an excuse to not be legit contenders.
Quote from: MU82 on December 06, 2023, 07:59:05 AM
It's supposedly down to the Dodgers, Angels, Giants, Cubs and Blue Jays for Ohtani.
If winning is actually his #1 goal, not sure how he could choose anybody but the Dodgers out of this group. A few of the others have some good pieces and they could win ... but the Dodgers are legit title contenders year after year after year, and they will never use $$$ as an excuse to not be legit contenders.
If he was about winning the right way, he'd take less money and play for the Cardinals
He would pay the Cardinals to take him.
Quote from: MU82 on December 06, 2023, 07:59:05 AM
It's supposedly down to the Dodgers, Angels, Giants, Cubs and Blue Jays for Ohtani.
If winning is actually his #1 goal, not sure how he could choose anybody but the Dodgers out of this group. A few of the others have some good pieces and they could win ... but the Dodgers are legit title contenders year after year after year, and they will never use $$$ as an excuse to not be legit contenders.
I mean, on a similar note, how could he not choose the Angels? Pair an MVP with another MVP talent in Trout in an attractive FA market like LA? Thats a super team.
Quote from: JWags85 on December 06, 2023, 09:44:15 AM
I mean, on a similar note, how could he not choose the Angels? Pair an MVP with another MVP talent in Trout in an attractive FA market like LA? Thats a super team.
If Ohtani switches leagues, Trout will win the MVP again just by voter habit. It won't matter that the Angels lose 100 games or that Trout misses more than a third of the season.
Quote from: MU82 on December 06, 2023, 07:59:05 AM
It's supposedly down to the Dodgers, Angels, Giants, Cubs and Blue Jays for Ohtani.
If winning is actually his #1 goal, not sure how he could choose anybody but the Dodgers out of this group. A few of the others have some good pieces and they could win ... but the Dodgers are legit title contenders year after year after year, and they will never use $$$ as an excuse to not be legit contenders.
Buster Olney with a hilarious, Helen Lovejoy-esque "won't somebody please think of the baseball writers!" screed about how it is wrong that Ohtani is handling his own free agency how he wants to.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39049998/shohei-ohtani-secret-free-agency-mlb-dodgers-blue-jays (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39049998/shohei-ohtani-secret-free-agency-mlb-dodgers-blue-jays)
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 06, 2023, 01:07:57 PM
Buster Olney with a hilarious, Helen Lovejoy-esque "won't somebody please think of the baseball writers!" screed about how it is wrong that Ohtani is handling his own free agency how he wants to.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39049998/shohei-ohtani-secret-free-agency-mlb-dodgers-blue-jays (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39049998/shohei-ohtani-secret-free-agency-mlb-dodgers-blue-jays)
The baseball writer circle jerk has been remarkable this offseason.
https://x.com/awfulannouncing/status/1732475773590925666?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg
https://x.com/ken_rosenthal/status/1732242046142808255?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2023, 08:00:33 AM
He would pay the Cardinals to take him.
I heard he was signing with the West Michigan Whitecaps. Tom Izzo is going to manage the team.
That would be silly. As I was told by a St. Louis transplant at a high school baseball game last spring, real baseball isn't played here.
The problem isn't that the winter meetings are lacking buzz, its that baseball just doesn't have enough recognizable star power.
Quote from: JWags85 on December 06, 2023, 09:44:15 AM
I mean, on a similar note, how could he not choose the Angels? Pair an MVP with another MVP talent in Trout in an attractive FA market like LA? Thats a super team.
Throw in an all-star like Anthony Rendon and a top prospect like Jo Adell, and that team could contend for years.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 06, 2023, 03:04:16 PM
The problem isn't that the winter meetings are lacking buzz, its that baseball just doesn't have enough recognizable star power.
Because of Magic and Bird, the NBA learned that marketing its stars is
everything. The NFL is also a star driven league.
MLB has never done that until maybe 2 years ago. And they are sill behind the times.
I thought he's been talking to Nashville since the 1980s.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/mlb/chicago-white-sox/white-sox-owner-jerry-reinsdorf-meets-with-nashville-mayor-amid-stadium-questions/3296610/
He obviously wanted to be seen. He sees it as a bargaining chip.
There was nothing meaningful about moving the team there as I think they still have 5 or 6 years left on their lease in Chicago. By that time, LaRussa may be sober enough to make the decision.
I wonder with the brewer's overload of outfielders, and no announcement of a Bonafide 1st baseman, makes me think they may move Yelich to 1st?? just a thought.
Quote from: MUINGB on December 06, 2023, 07:08:25 PM
I wonder with the brewer's overload of outfielders, and no announcement of a Bonafide 1st baseman, makes me think they may move Yelich to 1st?? just a thought.
There are worse ideas to be sure
Quote from: MUINGB on December 06, 2023, 07:08:25 PM
I wonder with the brewer's overload of outfielders, and no announcement of a Bonafide 1st baseman, makes me think they may move Yelich to 1st?? just a thought.
Sounds like that isn't in the plans according to reports. Think it's more likely they move Mitchell and Wiemer.
Yankees closing in on Soto.
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1732521351297019963?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Quote from: Jockey on December 06, 2023, 04:08:40 PM
Because of Magic and Bird, the NBA learned that marketing its stars is everything. The NFL is also a star driven league.
MLB has never done that until maybe 2 years ago. And they are sill behind the times.
They used to. Now the regional networks have killed the national exposure.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 06, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
If he was about winning the right way, he'd take less money and play for the Cardinals
You laugh, but now that the Cardinals just named Yadi Molina special assistant to president of baseball operations, you pretty much can guarantee that St. Louis is where Ohtani's going.
Quote from: MU82 on December 06, 2023, 09:23:30 PM
You laugh, but now that the Cardinals just named Yadi Molina special assistant to president of baseball operations, you pretty much can guarantee that St. Louis is where Ohtani's going.
Only if he gets to call the games Ohtani pitches
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 06, 2023, 07:57:06 PM
Sounds like that isn't in the plans according to reports. Think it's more likely they move Mitchell and Wiemer.
Wiemer is my guess.
Soto to the Yanks a done deal
E Rodriguez to the Diamondbacks
Some smoke about the Blue Jays and Ohtani thanks to #FlightTracker
LA beat writer saying he'll sign tonight with Jays.
@jonmorosi
Today, I posted reporting that included inaccurate information that Shohei Ohtani was traveling to Toronto. I regret the mistake and apologize to baseball fans everywhere. I am deeply sorry for letting you down.
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1733336968199631122
Quote from: Pakuni on December 09, 2023, 07:05:27 AM
@jonmorosi
Today, I posted reporting that included inaccurate information that Shohei Ohtani was traveling to Toronto. I regret the mistake and apologize to baseball fans everywhere. I am deeply sorry for letting you down.
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1733336968199631122
The whole concept that he would fly to Toronto just never made sense.
Ohtani to the Mariners for 12 years-$520 million
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 09, 2023, 07:36:16 AM
Ohtani to the Mariners for 12 years-$520 million
Is this a game of Clue?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 06, 2023, 07:57:06 PM
Sounds like that isn't in the plans according to reports. Think it's more likely they move Mitchell and Wiemer.
Makes complete sense to make Yelich a 1B/DH. He shouldn't play OF anymore, especially with the young talent they have covering all the OF. He has a terrible arm.
I don't think they'll move two of Mitchell, Frelick, and Wiemer. They drafted and developed them all. You might be giving up too much future production and high quality depth. They're all under club control awhile too.
Trade one, keep the other two and pair them with Chourio, with Taylor as 4th OF and depth if the two remaining have struggles.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 09, 2023, 08:27:22 AM
Makes complete sense to make Yelich a 1B/DH. He shouldn't play OF anymore, especially with the young talent they have covering all the OF. He has a terrible arm.
I don't think they'll move two of Mitchell, Frelick, and Wiemer. They drafted and developed them all. You might be giving up too much future production and high quality depth. They're all under club control awhile too.
Trade one, keep the other two and pair them with Chourio, with Taylor as 4th OF and depth if the two remaining have struggles.
I'd move Wiemer because I think he's Brett Phillips 2.0 but I'm not sure his real value. That swing needs a lot of work
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 09, 2023, 08:43:22 AM
I'd move Wiemer because I think he's Brett Phillips 2.0 but I'm not sure his real value. That swing needs a lot of work
Absolutely on his swing. I was talking about him and we were saying how hard it was to believe as he was coming up through the minors, how their coaches and minor league instructors weren't making him change that. It's obvious to any fan that's a swing that will not succeed against MLB pitching.
He's got a lot of tools you can see the high upside, so I don't know.
I like Frelick a lot, but am concerned his ceiling is a singles hitter. Although, we need guys who can just get on base.
Tough call between the three of them. Maybe whoever covets one of them the most where they'll get the best return is who you deal. But it's nice to be dealing from position of depth.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 09, 2023, 09:15:59 AM
Absolutely on his swing. I was talking about him and we were saying how hard it was to believe as he was coming up through the minors, how their coaches and minor league instructors weren't making him change that. It's obvious to any fan that's a swing that will not succeed against MLB pitching.
He's got a lot of tools you can see the high upside, so I don't know.
I like Frelick a lot, but am concerned his ceiling is a singles hitter. Although, we need guys who can just get on base.
Tough call between the three of them. Maybe whoever covets one of them the most where they'll get the best return is who you deal. But it's nice to be dealing from position of depth.
Watching Frelick hit so far has been nice. Patient hitter and trying to make contact. I'll take 100 of those over some of the swing and miss guys in the league right now. If Chourio is the guy, Frelick as a complimentary piece getting on-base is fine.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 09, 2023, 09:27:57 AM
Watching Frelick hit so far has been nice. Patient hitter and trying to make contact. I'll take 100 of those over some of the swing and miss guys in the league right now. If Chourio is the guy, Frelick as a complimentary piece getting on-base is fine.
Agree, although analytics would disagree
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 09, 2023, 09:32:46 AM
Agree, although analytics would disagree
I'm of thinking it might be time for a team to take a contrarian look at analytics when it comes to the sport.
I'm not saying you become a stolen base driven team and play station-to-station but I think there's a place in the game to put pressure on the defense and pitcher. Santana and Donaldson are old and unreliable but their professional at-bats and extending counts I think are valuable. Too many 3-pitch outs in MLB lineups today. You don't want a lineup relying on those two but I'd like to see an organization start to stress extending at-bats and such through their system and see what happens
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 09, 2023, 09:40:42 AM
I'm of thinking it might be time for a team to take a contrarian look at analytics when it comes to the sport.
I'm not saying you become a stolen base driven team and play station-to-station but I think there's a place in the game to put pressure on the defense and pitcher. Santana and Donaldson are old and unreliable but their professional at-bats and extending counts I think are valuable. Too many 3-pitch outs in MLB lineups today. You don't want a lineup relying on those two but I'd like to see an organization start to stress extending at-bats and such through their system and see what happens
I'm of thinking analytics are mostly crap across all sports.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 09, 2023, 09:44:06 AM
I'm of thinking analytics are mostly crap across all sports.
I think that's pretty ridiculous. Are they overused at times? Most definitely. "Mostly crap?" Not a chance.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 09, 2023, 09:47:45 AM
I think that's pretty ridiculous. Are they overused at times? Most definitely. "Mostly crap?" Not a chance.
There's a happy medium and spot to be counterintuitive in sports when it comes to analytics.
College basketball is a great example. We can see flaws with our eyes and confirm with analytics. We can also miss issues and the numbers make them clear.
Problem is, predictive models such as KenPom can be overused. Game is still played and results can vary wildly cuz sports and then the mouth breathers say, "but KenPom said derp." It's a tool. You can still enjoy the games
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 09, 2023, 09:40:42 AM
I'm of thinking it might be time for a team to take a contrarian look at analytics when it comes to the sport.
I'm not saying you become a stolen base driven team and play station-to-station but I think there's a place in the game to put pressure on the defense and pitcher. Santana and Donaldson are old and unreliable but their professional at-bats and extending counts I think are valuable. Too many 3-pitch outs in MLB lineups today. You don't want a lineup relying on those two but I'd like to see an organization start to stress extending at-bats and such through their system and see what happens
Part of why the "moneyball" was effective was that it identified value in places that were effective yet undervalued by the market. To the extent that teams so focused on launch angle/power hitting to the detriment of on base percentage and single hitting efficiency, then perhaps there's an angle to exploit on the other side of the consensus.
Quote from: jficke13 on December 09, 2023, 10:43:30 AM
Part of why the "moneyball" was effective was that it identified value in places that were effective yet undervalued by the market. To the extent that teams so focused on launch angle/power hitting to the detriment of on base percentage and single hitting efficiency, then perhaps there's an angle to exploit on the other side of the consensus.
Not a fan of Tom Verducci for the most part but his book about Joe Torre's time in New York was enlightening in this regard. By the time the Yankees jumped on "Moneyballing" the team, everyone was doing it and the value was gone. Cashman bragging about it in 2005 was pretty laughable
I thought my numbers were crazy
Ohtani to the dodgers
I don't blame him, but easily the least interesting landing spot
The obvious happened. Film at 11.
Yesterday it wuz kool ta bee Rahm. Tadey, its Ohtani. Monopoly money sure iz phun, aina?
Roberts telegraphed it a couple of days ago. Then the story of the player giving up #17. It was a long, convoluted process to end up at the logical destination. All of the other deals should start happening now.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 09, 2023, 03:22:01 PM
Yesterday it wuz kool ta bee Rahm. Tadey, its Ohtani. Monopoly money sure iz phun, aina?
'bout half that in taxes, eyn'a? unless your name is hunter
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 09, 2023, 03:45:11 PM
'bout half that in taxes, eyn'a? unless your name is hunter
8 out of 10
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 09, 2023, 03:45:11 PM
'bout half that in taxes, eyn'a? unless your name is hunter
I assumed you would go with some xenophobia, too. Sad.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 09, 2023, 03:45:11 PM
'bout half that in taxes, eyn'a? unless your name is hunter
:o :o :o
Quote from: tower912 on December 09, 2023, 03:48:44 PM
I assumed you would go with some xenophobia, too. Sad.
xenophobia?? where does that come in to play? taxes are xenophobic?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 09, 2023, 04:14:06 PM
xenophobia?? where does that come in to play? taxes are xenophobic?
9.5 out of 10
No notes
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 09, 2023, 04:14:06 PM
xenophobia?? where does that come in to play? taxes are xenophobic?
Where does Hunter Biden come into play?
Left field, hey?
Quote from: wadesworld on December 09, 2023, 04:31:32 PM
Where does Hunter Biden come into play?
Jared got $2 billion to play LF
Quote from: wadesworld on December 09, 2023, 04:31:32 PM
Where does Hunter Biden come into play?
catfish hunter of course
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 09, 2023, 05:13:09 PM
catfish hunter of course
I like that you ask somebody else what their comment has to do with the topic...when his comment was a response to you bringing up Hunter Biden in an MLB thread. Lol.
Delusion at its finest.
Very cool that Ohtani will make double the A's payroll. Normal sport.
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 09, 2023, 06:17:37 PM
Very cool that Ohtani will make double the A's payroll. Normal sport.
Totally worth it.
Salary floor or else no revenue shares
Wow I was hoping he'd pick the Cubs but glad they didn't pay $700M for him.
Not to sound like a Change Bank commercial (great SNL skit if you haven't seen it) but I think I'd rather spread out $700M amongst several players. Give me three $20M players and a $10M instead of putting all your eggs in one basket.
Good for him though for getting that money. I wonder how much money Friday's Blue Jays speculation added.
We should celebrate that Bob Nightengale got a story right
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 09, 2023, 06:17:37 PM
Very cool that Ohtani will make double the A's payroll. Normal sport.
💯
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 10, 2023, 12:20:43 AM
Wow I was hoping he'd pick the Cubs but glad they didn't pay $700M for him.
Not to sound like a Change Bank commercial (great SNL skit if you haven't seen it) but I think I'd rather spread out $700M amongst several players. Give me three $20M players and a $10M instead of putting all your eggs in one basket.
Good for him though for getting that money. I wonder how much money Friday's Blue Jays speculation added.
I just can't get on board any joy for anyone getting a contract this obscene.
But great to see the Dodgers finally get a free agency win, there's that.
I would rather have a player (or players) get it than an owner pocketing it.
I do think concentrating that much into one player isn't the best way to build a team though.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2023, 12:18:35 PM
I would rather have a player (or players) get it than an owner pocketing it.
I suppose.
Its kind of hard for me to have an opinion on the deal becuase it just means that MLB payrolls/luxury tax are fake. $60M or whatever this deal will count against the tax each year is objectively crippling, even for Ohtani, if the luxury tax is serious or has a role in a team's spending decisions. But if you're the Mets or the Dodgers now or soon the Yankees or whoever, none of it matters and ownership has just priced in paying the tax and repeater penalties forever (or fighting those in the next CBA), so good for them, I guess?
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 10, 2023, 12:30:19 PM
Its kind of hard for me to have an opinion on the deal becuase it just means that MLB payrolls/luxury tax are fake. $60M or whatever this deal will count against the tax each year is objectively crippling, even for Ohtani, if the luxury tax is serious or has a role in a team's spending decisions. But if you're the Mets or the Dodgers now or soon the Yankees or whoever, none of it matters and ownership has just priced in paying the tax and repeater penalties forever (or fighting those in the next CBA), so good for them, I guess?
Baseball is a joke in that respect, a luxury tax so weak apparently none of the uber wealthy teams/owners care at all about and no salary cap. The other three major American sports leagues all have to heavily weigh what they're spending into their player personnel decisions. (That's how I understand hockey being as well, but admittedly don't follow it very closely.)
Baseball though it truly is Monopoly money for the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, etc.
And I have no confidence in Manfred and owners collectively to come together and do anything to restore a little order to this. It's not good for the game.
Because the players have no interest in a salary cap or other form of compensation restriction. The owners can't unilaterally do this.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2023, 01:04:46 PM
Because the players have no interest in a salary cap or other form of compensation restriction. The owners can't unilaterally do this.
Yeah, of course. I get that. I'd just like Manfred to show some leadership and he and the owners fight back a little and not be so pathetically weak always against the players union. Not saying it will be easy or that I expect sweeping changes, but show a backbone for once. This is important for long term health of the game.
Damn it sounds like Ohtani's agents fed Morosi the fake flight information to get the Dodgers to up the offer.
I get that their job is to get their client as much money as possible but doing it at the expense of a reporter's credibility is something.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 10, 2023, 01:11:01 PM
Yeah, of course. I get that. I'd just like Manfred to show some leadership and he and the owners fight back a little and not be so pathetically weak always against the players union. Not saying it will be easy or that I expect sweeping changes, but show a backbone for once. This is important for long term health of the game.
The owners have willingly shut down chunks of seasons - even canceling a World Series once - but the players simply have the means and public support to outlast them.
They'd have to be willing to cancel an entire season, maybe more, and that probably would hurt them more both financially and public-relations-wise than the status quo would.
Quote from: MU82 on December 10, 2023, 01:28:44 PM
The owners have willingly shut down chunks of seasons - even canceling a World Series once - but the players simply have the means and public support to outlast them.
They'd have to be willing to cancel an entire season, maybe more, and that probably would hurt them more both financially and public-relations-wise than the status quo would.
I don't know why you assume it's probable public sentiment will take the players side and owners would be hurt more in PR than the players? We just saw a guy sign one contract for $170M more than Lebron James entire projected career earnings will be ($700M - $530M). Good luck to the players union getting the public to feel empathy for their plight against a salary cap and/or much more impactful luxury tax implications when we have exhibit A of this ludicrous contract to show why changes are needed.
Players also have a lot to lose with canceled games and threat of a canceled season too. These owners are all billionaires. What's going on with salaries is likely unsustainable unless they take a stand soon.
Oh come on. Unsustainable? They've been saying that for 50 years.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2023, 03:14:32 PM
Oh come on. Unsustainable? They've been saying that for 50 years.
What's the end game, especially with no salary cap? There's a good reason all three other major professional sports have one. For crying out loud, the NBA has max contacts with their cap.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 10, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
What's the end game, especially with no salary cap? There's a good reason all three other major professional sports have one. For crying out loud, the NBA has max contacts with their cap.
If teams have revenue to cover their costs, why does it matter? I understand concerns over competitive balance, but why are you making the assumption that these contracts are "unsustainable?" Every time I have heard someone say something similar over the past three decades, it ends up being quite sustainable.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2023, 03:32:28 PM
If teams have revenue to cover their costs, why does it matter? I understand concerns over competitive balance, but why are you making the assumption that these contracts are "unsustainable?" Every time I have heard someone say something similar over the past three decades, it ends up being quite sustainable.
You do understand revenue means BEFORE costs, right? Costs and expenses exceeding revenue means a net loss.
Poor Marky, his team will just haveta bea content wit bitin' da forbidden apple, aina?
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 10, 2023, 03:43:29 PM
You do understand revenue means BEFORE costs, right? Costs and expenses exceeding revenue means a net loss.
? I said "If teams have revenue to cover their costs..." What don't you think I understand?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2023, 03:49:30 PM
? I said "If teams have revenue to cover their costs..." What don't you think I understand?
Teams know what a business cost of players salaries will be. Revenue is mostly an unknown. You're making an assumption in that statement teams revenues will continue to cover their costs, especially tacking on "why does it matter?"
And we're discussing player salaries being out of control and not sustainable imo long term. Baseball cannot assume anything with revenues. The sports popularity among the general public has mostly been in decline for years now.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 10, 2023, 04:09:00 PM
Teams know what a business cost of players salaries will be. Revenue is mostly an unknown. You're making an assumption in that statement teams revenues will continue to cover their costs, especially tacking on "why does it matter?"
And we're discussing player salaries being out of control and not sustainable imo long term. Baseball cannot assume anything with revenues. The sports popularity among the general public has mostly been in decline for years now.
Ummm attendance was high as its been since 2017
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 10, 2023, 04:12:22 PM
Ummm attendance was high as its been since 2017
Yes, undoubtedly due to finally speeding games up. And a good attendance year after many down years. It's not like I'm breaking news baseball has been less and less popular for awhile now.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 10, 2023, 04:18:02 PM
Yes, undoubtedly due to finally speeding games up. And a good attendance year after many down years. It's not like I'm breaking news baseball has been less and less popular for awhile now.
It was at its lowest right after Covid. Greatly increased. Then increased again. Its on a good track.
And for a guy like Ohtani which I assume is the basis of this discussion the revenue he will generate is clear. Jerseys and ticket sales will make the contract worth it by June.
There are entire asian sections at Target field when Ohtani comes to town. Much less LA.
Could revenues fall? Sure. But I think it's doubtful considering media revenues continue to rise.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 10, 2023, 04:09:00 PM
Teams know what a business cost of players salaries will be. Revenue is mostly an unknown. You're making an assumption in that statement teams revenues will continue to cover their costs, especially tacking on "why does it matter?"
And we're discussing player salaries being out of control and not sustainable imo long term. Baseball cannot assume anything with revenues. The sports popularity among the general public has mostly been in decline for years now.
Owning a professional sports team is a virtual guarantee of a massive windfall when you decide to sell.
Mark Cuban bought the Mavs for $285 million and is selling for a reported $3.5 billion.
The Wilpons and Doubledays bought the Mets for about $81 million and sold the team for $2.4 billion.
Jeffrey Loria bought the Marlins for $158.5 million and sold the team for $1.3 billion.
With that kind of expected ROI, owners - all billionaires to begin with - can bear occasional operating losses. If you aren't willing to spend to create a competitive roster, don't buy a team.
As for declining popularity, both attendance last year was the highest since 2017 and TV ratings were up as well.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2023, 04:27:01 PM
Could revenues fall? Sure. But I think it's doubtful considering media revenues continue to rise.
Fair enough. I stated an opinion that I know has many nuances to it and I may be on the wrong side.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 10, 2023, 04:50:13 PM
Owning a professional sports team is a virtual guarantee of a massive windfall when you decide to sell.
Mark Cuban bought the Mavs for $285 million and is selling for a reported $3.5 billion.
The Wilpons and Doubledays bought the Mets for about $81 million and sold the team for $2.4 billion.
Jeffrey Loria bought the Marlins for $158.5 million and sold the team for $1.3 billion.
With that kind of expected ROI, owners - all billionaires to begin with - can bear occasional operating losses. If you aren't willing to spend to create a competitive roster, don't buy a team.
As for declining popularity, both attendance last year was the highest since 2017 and TV ratings were up as well.
All good points. And especially about windfalls when they decide to sell and if they're not willing to spend to be competitive, don't buy a team are the very issues we have as Brewers fans. Attanasio wants to profit way more than win. Both on a year to year and big picture whenever he decides to sell the team.
I just think it's a ridiculous advantage organizations like the Dodgers have on just about everyone and nothing is being done to attempt to level the playing field somewhat. Their absurd local television deal just dwarfs almost all the rest of MLB teams and that's the major reason why they can spend and fear nothing along the way. Many owners are not like Attanasio and are doing what they can to compete for championships.
And I still don't see what the end game is without a real mechanism to control player salaries. There's a point where national media deals, merchandise sales, ticket sales, etc just cannot keep up I fear. But we'll see.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 10, 2023, 04:20:58 PM
It was at its lowest right after Covid. Greatly increased. Then increased again. Its on a good track.
And for a guy like Ohtani which I assume is the basis of this discussion the revenue he will generate is clear. Jerseys and ticket sales will make the contract worth it by June.
There are entire asian sections at Target field when Ohtani comes to town. Much less LA.
I think there is a reason to be optimistic attendance will continue to do well with the rules changes that were overwhelmingly well received.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 10, 2023, 05:21:50 PM
I think there is a reason to be optimistic attendance will continue to do well with the rules changes that were overwhelmingly well received.
Yeah that was clearly the key. Same with viewership. People are much more inclined to spend there summer watching 2-2.5 hours of baseball instead of 3.5-4 hours.
What do Brewers fans want from an owner? Mark has been great for the city of Milwaukee and the Brewers. He's made the Milwaukee freaking Brewers relatively consistent NL Central contenders and Playoff teams.
He bought the Brewers before the 2005 season. They had made 1 postseason in over 20 years prior to that. Since then, they've made 7 postseasons. If you take away the first 3 years he owned the team to build it up, that's 7 postseasons in 16 years. And 5 of the last 6 postseasons, with the only miss being a pretty bad collapse.
I've got no problem with Mark.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2023, 09:08:50 PM
What do Brewers fans want from an owner? Mark has been great for the city of Milwaukee and the Brewers. He's made the Milwaukee freaking Brewers relatively consistent NL Central contenders and Playoff teams.
He bought the Brewers before the 2005 season. They had made 1 postseason in over 20 years prior to that. Since then, they've made 7 postseasons. If you take away the first 3 years he owned the team to build it up, that's 7 postseasons in 16 years. And 5 of the last 6 postseasons, with the only miss being a pretty bad collapse.
To spend like the Padres and win as much as they do
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2023, 09:08:50 PM
What do Brewers fans want from an owner? Mark has been great for the city of Milwaukee and the Brewers. He's made the Milwaukee freaking Brewers relatively consistent NL Central contenders and Playoff teams.
He bought the Brewers before the 2005 season. They had made 1 postseason in over 20 years prior to that. Since then, they've made 7 postseasons. If you take away the first 3 years he owned the team to build it up, that's 7 postseasons in 16 years. And 5 of the last 6 postseasons, with the only miss being a pretty bad collapse.
To recognize windows of opportunity with homegrown talent and spend like you want to maximize it vs hope for positive variance.
I don't have any problem with them bottoming out payroll in exchange for not trotting out a AAA offense when you have elite pitching.
From Yahoo Sports:
23 years ago today ...
Alex Rodriguez signed a 10-year, $252 million contract with the Texas Rangers. At the time, it was by far the largest contract in team sports history.
According to sportrac, that is now "only" the 18th-largest contract in MLB history.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2023, 09:08:50 PM
What do Brewers fans want from an owner? Mark has been great for the city of Milwaukee and the Brewers. He's made the Milwaukee freaking Brewers relatively consistent NL Central contenders and Playoff teams.
He bought the Brewers before the 2005 season. They had made 1 postseason in over 20 years prior to that. Since then, they've made 7 postseasons. If you take away the first 3 years he owned the team to build it up, that's 7 postseasons in 16 years. And 5 of the last 6 postseasons, with the only miss being a pretty bad collapse.
Mark is worth roughly $700 million per google. Ideally I'd like for him to liquidate all his assets and go out and get Ohtani...not much to ask really.
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 11, 2023, 07:13:30 AM
To recognize windows of opportunity with homegrown talent and spend like you want to maximize it vs hope for positive variance.
I don't have any problem with them bottoming out payroll in exchange for not trotting out a AAA offense when you have elite pitching.
I think he has. Early on, the Brewers had a chance to make the Playoffs for the first time in decades and he went out and got CC. Same story, but this time to win a division and he went out and got Greinke, who still had an extra year on his contract. CC walked, and they traded Greinke before he walked. Would it be cool to spend to sign those guys to long term contracts? Sure. But with no payroll, teams like the Yankees and Dodgers can pay twice what the Brewers can. They just can't keep those guys, or Burnes or Woody. It's just not realistic.
In 2018 they went out and got guys like Mike Moustakas, Jonathan Schoop (didn't work out, but he was good before the trade). Then got Yasmani Grandal the next year.
When it looks like there's a chance, Mark takes it. When they're multiple moves away (the last 2 years), it's tough to fill multiple holes at one trade deadline.
Now he's got a time to rebuild the roster fairly quickly.
And that's why ya lose managers like Craig too, aina?
#alsoran
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 11, 2023, 10:48:56 AM
And that's why ya lose managers like Craig too, aina?
#alsoran
You wanted Craig fired
Don't put words in my mouth. I stated he would not be back. That's exactly what happened, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 11, 2023, 11:43:24 AM
Don't put words in my mouth. I stated he would not be back. That's exactly what happened, aina?
You've been whining about Counsell the last 2 years like you whine about all coaches and managers
Not as much as you bitched about Rodgers, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 11, 2023, 12:04:03 PM
Not as much as you bitched about Rodgers, hey?
OOooooo.... slick burn there.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 11, 2023, 12:04:03 PM
Not as much as you bitched about Rodgers, hey?
Probably true, but as true as you wanting Counsell dumped
What a slick move by Ohtani & the Dodgers. I can't believe there's no interest on those deferrals.
He's either going to do the C-Suite thing or taking loans against future earnings or watch him roll deferred earnings into a post-retirement buy in to an ownership stake.
Quote from: jficke13 on December 11, 2023, 06:20:53 PM
He's either going to do the C-Suite thing or taking loans against future earnings or watch him roll deferred earnings into a post-retirement buy in to an ownership stake.
I saw some interesting tweets speculating that it was about rolling forward potential tax sheltering/mitigation, which would at least seemingly explain the losses on interest and time value of money.
Holy crap do I hate it. That's the kind of thing I think is actually bad for the sport.
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 11, 2023, 10:54:03 PM
Holy crap do I hate it. That's the kind of thing I think is actually bad for the sport.
Kicking the can down the road has worked for the USA, right?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 11, 2023, 10:57:45 PM
Kicking the can down the road has worked for the USA, right?
Allowing teams to reduce the luxury tax hit with deferrals is just so unnecessary on every level. To the extent baseball writers thought Ohtani's free agency had import for the sport, this is legit worse than the worst possible outcome. "What if the highest payroll team in the league drums up a payment scheme that is impossible for the average fan to understand AND that allows them to escape the luxury tax consequences of signing a generational player on the open market?"
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 11, 2023, 10:54:03 PM
Holy crap do I hate it. That's the kind of thing I think is actually bad for the sport.
Terrible for the sport. They'll sign Yamamoto just to top it off. Not that less wealthy franchises have any say (and half of them don't compete in good faith) but if I were say the Padres, I'd be livid at this
Reportedly, it was Ohtani's idea. He wants the Dodgers to have all the capital they need to build a superteam around him.
As for it being bad for the sport, we'll see. So many things have happened in the last 50 years that supposedly were going to permanently damage MLB - from free agency to the 1994 lockout to steroids to others - but none of them did.
Could this? Perhaps. We'll see.
He thought Bobby Bonilla was a forward thinking trend setter.
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 11, 2023, 11:33:40 PM
Terrible for the sport. They'll sign Yamamoto just to top it off. Not that less wealthy franchises have any say (and half of them don't compete in good faith) but if I were say the Padres, I'd be livid at this
Why? What would prevent the Padres from doing something similar?
If anything - and I may be mistaken, as I'm not an expert on financing - but wouldn't being able to defer payments benefit a less cash-rich franchise?
Quote from: Pakuni on December 12, 2023, 09:43:20 AM
Why? What would prevent the Padres from doing something similar?
If anything - and I may be mistaken, as I'm not an expert on financing - but wouldn't being able to defer payments benefit a less cash-rich franchise?
I don't disagree with this in principle. Especially since as 82 mentions, Ohtani was the one who was looking for a bigger dollar figure in exchange for deferrals because he is earning so much in endorsements. My issue is twofold.
One is that the more convoluted the bookeeping, the more difficult for fans to track and care about the hot stove and to accurately be able to judge their own teams/owners. Money gets moved around in the NFL too, but with payrolls more or less equivalent due to the salary cap, that doesn't really reflect on an owner's willingness to pay players to be competitive. In the MLB its different because of the luxury tax structure and payroll discrepancies - adding in tons of deferred money only further clouds that and distances the fans from the product.
The second issue is downstream, which is that while deferred money could theoretically help smaller market teams - it won't. I think that if Milwaukee, Tampa, Cleveland, Miami, or Kansas City were adding $680M in deferred comp to their books, the MLB would have a conniption. Those teams can't reasonably carry that type of liability without materially affecting the value of the franchise and the stability of the ownership group. As a loose comparison, look at how the Jeter group had to sell off all of Miami's good players after buying the team from Loria because they were so leveraged to come up with the purchase price. So while deferred money can help small market teams when used sparingly, only the franchises most immune from financial turbulence can actually use it to maintain spending flexibility while signing top players.
Yes, people. Capitalism sucks.
MUBurrow, I'd also add the deferred money is intended to help only those teams going over the cap/into the tax. That is not a situation the small market teams deal with.
While I agree this is a strategy to circumvent the tax and thus reduce revenues to small markets, I think you have to recognize the Dodgers have made a very big bet on Ohtani's health. The "experts" after his injury were guessing on a $300M-$400M deal and the Dodgers went about double. How often does that happen? Tip of the cap for having 'onions'.
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 12, 2023, 10:02:31 AM
The second issue is downstream, which is that while deferred money could theoretically help smaller market teams - it won't. I think that if Milwaukee, Tampa, Cleveland, Miami, or Kansas City were adding $680M in deferred comp to their books, the MLB would have a conniption. Those teams can't reasonably carry that type of liability without materially affecting the value of the franchise and the stability of the ownership group. As a loose comparison, look at how the Jeter group had to sell off all of Miami's good players after buying the team from Loria because they were so leveraged to come up with the purchase price. So while deferred money can help small market teams when used sparingly, only the franchises most immune from financial turbulence can actually use it to maintain spending flexibility while signing top players.
This is a reasonable point, Burrow. We'll have to see what this kind of thing ends up meaning long-term.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 12, 2023, 10:19:16 AM
I think you have to recognize the Dodgers have made a very big bet on Ohtani's health.
Also a good point. I've read quite a few articles on the signing and very few have mentioned that Ohtani's health already has been an issue and could definitely be an issue going forward. It's quite a bet to place on a pitcher who already has had two major surgeries and who won't pitch in his first season with his new club. Obviously, he's also a great hitter. As you might have heard.
Quote from: Jockey on December 12, 2023, 10:15:06 AM
Yes, people. Capitalism sucks.
Yeh, not really a capitalism/free market issue.
MLB is competing with the NFL, NBA, NHL, Hollywood, Vail Resorts, etc. and not each other.
To be concerned about the competitive balance inside MLB is reasonable for the health of the entire league and far from anti-Capitalism.
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 12, 2023, 10:02:31 AM
The second issue is downstream, which is that while deferred money could theoretically help smaller market teams - it won't. I think that if Milwaukee, Tampa, Cleveland, Miami, or Kansas City were adding $680M in deferred comp to their books, the MLB would have a conniption. Those teams can't reasonably carry that type of liability without materially affecting the value of the franchise and the stability of the ownership group. As a loose comparison, look at how the Jeter group had to sell off all of Miami's good players after buying the team from Loria because they were so leveraged to come up with the purchase price. So while deferred money can help small market teams when used sparingly, only the franchises most immune from financial turbulence can actually use it to maintain spending flexibility while signing top players.
Again, I say this as someone who's not an expert on these matters, but one would think that teams would - for lack of a better term - finance these contracts, and for the financiers there isn't a much safer bet than a professional sports franchise. The value of the team is almost certain to go up, there are guaranteed revenue streams (national TV contract, licensing fees, etc.) and virtually guaranteed streams (ticket sales, local broadcasting) that may fluctuate year-to-year, but won't vanish and are almost certain to rise annually.
I get that MLB wouldn't be thrilled to see a team struggle to pay its creditors, but that would seem an unlikely worst-case scenario.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 12, 2023, 10:19:16 AM
MUBurrow, I'd also add the deferred money is intended to help only those teams going over the cap/into the tax. That is not a situation the small market teams deal with.
This is exactly what I was going to say. The tax threshold was $233MM last year. 14 teams could've added Ohtani's $70MM/year and not gone over that number. The teams that would've gone over it (or further over it, for a number already over that) would be the Mets, Yankees, Padres, Phillies, Dodgers, Angels, Blue Jays, Braves, Rangers, Astros, Giants, Cubs, Red Sox, White Sox, Cardinals, and Rockies. AKA, most of the big market teams. The teams that wouldn't have gone over would be the Twins, Mariners, Tigers, Brewers, Diamondbacks, Nationals, Royals, Marlins, Guardians, Reds, Pirates, Rays, Orioles, A's. AKA most of the small market teams.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 12, 2023, 10:19:16 AM
MUBurrow, I'd also add the deferred money is intended to help only those teams going over the cap/into the tax. That is not a situation the small market teams deal with.
While I agree this is a strategy to circumvent the tax and thus reduce revenues to small markets, I think you have to recognize the Dodgers have made a very big bet on Ohtani's health. The "experts" after his injury were guessing on a $300M-$400M deal and the Dodgers went about double. How often does that happen? Tip of the cap for having 'onions'.
MLB could solve this by calculating the figure by average annual value (AAV) of the contract, as they do in the NHL.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on December 11, 2023, 08:39:43 AM
Mark is worth roughly $700 million per google. Ideally I'd like for him to liquidate all his assets and go out and get Ohtani...not much to ask really.
Wrong, Marky bought the team in 2005 for $225 mil. It has been valued as recently as this Fall at $1.6 bil. Part with the shekels, hey?
Quote from: Pakuni on December 12, 2023, 10:38:27 AM
MLB could solve this by calculating the figure by average annual value (AAV) of the contract, as they do in the NHL.
Very true. The NFL too?
I thought the Bronco's got caught deferring some of Elway's contract (it was like $1M, not $680M). I could be wrong.
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2023, 10:25:39 AM
This is a reasonable point, Burrow. We'll have to see what this kind of thing ends up meaning long-term.
Also a good point. I've read quite a few articles on the signing and very few have mentioned that Ohtani's health already has been an issue and could definitely be an issue going forward. It's quite a bet to place on a pitcher who already has had two major surgeries and who won't pitch in his first season with his new club. Obviously, he's also a great hitter. As you might have heard.
I mean, you take the pitching aspect out of it, and you have an MVP caliber hitter. Aaron Judge signed for $40MM a year last year over 9 years and is 2 years older than Ohtani. Ohtani has outpaced Judge in most non-HR categories, strikes out less, and hits more line drives (aka extra base hits).
I think then you add the deferred payment aspect and the pitching premium (even with injury risk) becomes a fairly reasonable number.
The right elbow is a concern for sure, but I'd note that in the time between his last significant elbow injury (2019-2020), he averaged over 25 starts a season (and was on pace for another 28ish start season in 2023) and was fairly durable, so its not like he's totally a glass arm, especially if he gets a year off.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 12, 2023, 10:38:27 AM
MLB could solve this by calculating the figure by average annual value (AAV) of the contract, as they do in the NHL.
Yup that's it, and I would add that the value of deferred money in the contract shouldn't be reduced for the time value of money. If the team and player want to defer a bunch of the money, that is between them and God, but it isn't good to let teams load up their books with future payroll obligations for competitive balance benefits today.
Tim Dierks at MLBTR argues the other side here - https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/why-shohei-ohtanis-contract-structure-is-not-a-luxury-tax-dodge.html (https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/why-shohei-ohtanis-contract-structure-is-not-a-luxury-tax-dodge.html) - but I don't find it persuasive. His point centers around the fact that the time value of money is real, and while I don't disagree, I don't think that's the end of the argument. A pro sports league is a closed economic universe, and is able to value its contracts for competitive balance purposes however it wishes. Just because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush doesn't mean a league can't internally value a deal for two birds in the bush at two birds. The idea that baseball had a problem with the Yankees signing Judge through his age 44 season to stretch the luxury cap timeline, but not deferring 97% of a $700M deal and discounting for future value is... a position.
There's way too much discourse on Ohtani and not enough on the Brewers signing of Joe Ross
Quote from: JWags85 on December 12, 2023, 11:04:25 AM
I mean, you take the pitching aspect out of it, and you have an MVP caliber hitter. Aaron Judge signed for $40MM a year last year over 9 years and is 2 years older than Ohtani. Ohtani has outpaced Judge in most non-HR categories, strikes out less, and hits more line drives (aka extra base hits).
I think then you add the deferred payment aspect and the pitching premium (even with injury risk) becomes a fairly reasonable number.
The right elbow is a concern for sure, but I'd note that in the time between his last significant elbow injury (2019-2020), he averaged over 25 starts a season (and was on pace for another 28ish start season in 2023) and was fairly durable, so its not like he's totally a glass arm, especially if he gets a year off.
Also reasonable. Ohtani is the most valuable, most uniquely gifted athlete in MLB and he deserved to be paid that way. I have no problem with the contract. I love watching him play, and I hope he can get back on the mound in 2025.
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 12, 2023, 01:49:42 PM
There's way too much discourse on Ohtani and not enough on the Brewers signing of Joe Ross
[/q
Yeah Ross (who?) makes 2.5%/year of Ohtani's haul and is on a 1 year contract, hey?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 12, 2023, 10:25:51 AM
Yeh, not really a capitalism/free market issue.
MLB is competing with the NFL, NBA, NHL, Hollywood, Vail Resorts, etc. and not each other.
I disagree.
Havent followed baseball since the early 90s when the strike happened . Before that enjoyed The Tigers .
This Shohei Otani contract caught my attention so I checked him out. First thing that caught my eye is he has a very cute small spaniel dog (a Kooikerhondje). Seems like a good guy so will be rooting for him to get his arm healthy again. Enjoy the whole modern day Babe Ruth aspect of his story.
I don't follow Jai Alai at all, but I think the rackets are really, really cute. I'll be rooting for all the guys and gals who use them.
Quote from: Herman Cain on December 13, 2023, 10:35:22 AM
Havent followed baseball since the early 90s when the strike happened .
It wasn't a strike, it was a lockout.
The owners locked out the players, canceled the World Series, and didn't remove the locks until the following season.
Quote from: Jockey on December 13, 2023, 05:11:22 PM
I don't follow Jai Alai at all, but I think the rackets are really, really cute. I'll be rooting for all the guys and gals who use them.
A cesta!
Dodgers trade for Glasgow, will sign him to an extension.
From Yahoo Sports:
49 years ago today, an arbitrator ruled that Jim "Catfish" Hunter's contract with the A's had been violated. As a result, he was free to sign with any team, making him MLB's first free agent, Jeff writes.
By the numbers: Hunter, the reigning Cy Young winner coming off three straight World Series titles, signed a five-year contract with the Yankees worth a then-record $3.25 million... slightly less than the $700 million deal Shohei Ohtani signed this week.
I was a kid back then, and I remember hearing a lot of proclamations about this being the first step to the death of baseball.
It was. It will just take another few decades.
Quote from: Herman Cain on December 13, 2023, 10:35:22 AM
Havent followed baseball since the early 90s when the strike happened . Before that enjoyed The Tigers .
This Shohei Otani contract caught my attention so I checked him out. First thing that caught my eye is he has a very cute small spaniel dog (a Kooikerhondje). Seems like a good guy so will be rooting for him to get his arm healthy again. Enjoy the whole modern day Babe Ruth aspect of his story.
Surprised you weren't in the negotiation room with Shohei.
Nah, dat wood bea Reako, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 15, 2023, 06:53:09 PM
Nah, dat wood bea Reako, hey?
I was there. We showed him the Kobe video and it was a done deal. Lots of MLB teams use me to help close deals. Herm was probably busy on campus with recruits
Quote from: Herman Cain on December 13, 2023, 10:35:22 AM
Havent followed baseball since the early 90s when the strike happened . Before that enjoyed The Tigers .
This Shohei Otani contract caught my attention so I checked him out. First thing that caught my eye is he has a very cute small spaniel dog (a Kooikerhondje). Seems like a good guy so will be rooting for him to get his arm healthy again. Enjoy the whole modern day Babe Ruth aspect of his story.
Who's a Lucky Dog? (Hint: His Owner Just Signed a $700-Million Contract) https://www.wsj.com/sports/baseball/shohei-ohtani-dog-decoy-700-million-nederlandse-kooikerhondje-2528fc37?st=kkbbyz43oaydo5m&reflink=article_imessage_share
The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that Amazon is in discussions with Diamond Sports Group, the broadcaster that oversees Bally Sports Wisconsin and similar regional sports networks (RSNs), to develop a multi-year streaming partnership.
An agreement would eventually allow Amazon to serve as the streaming home for the games covered by those networks and could also allow Diamond to stave off liquidation, thus enabling continued broadcasts from Bally Sports Wisconsin in the current cable and satellite locations.
Diamond entered bankruptcy in March and, as part of a complicated bankruptcy process, has been negotiating with teams and creditors to stay in the business. Bally Sports Wisconsin carries nearly all Brewers games and a sizable chunk of Bucks games.
It's unclear if any arrangement is close to finalization or how much Amazon will be investing. Any new arrangement, which would need approval from a bankruptcy judge, would presumably mean games streaming on Amazon instead of the Bally Sports Wisconsin app available to customers in market.
It's really a fascinating case study in mismanagement that RSNs can't make money broadcasting professional sports to home markets.
Quote from: jficke13 on December 20, 2023, 09:40:15 AM
It's really a fascinating case study in mismanagement that RSNs can't make money broadcasting professional sports to home markets.
I don't know about that. I think it is more about the collapse of the cable market.
From an article on tvrev.com:
Since the the start of the pandemic in 2020, the once-successful idea behind the networks — sports channels that subsist entirely on live, studio and archive content for local sports teams — has collapsed as part of the wider fall of the cable bundle and a larger shift in sports viewing. And it's still getting worse for the many RSNs owned and operated by Diamond Sports Group.
Diamond Sports declared bankruptcy in March 2023, and has since lost the rights to a variety of teams across the NBA, NHL and most importantly, MLB. Various reports this week indicate there could be several options available for the struggling enterprise to gain a liferaft.
Former parent company Sinclair would love to buy the company back at a discount, but it's debatable whether that actually solves problems for either party.
Meanwhile, the NBA reportedly (via SBJ) has a deal in place to regain teams' Diamond Sports RSN rights at the end of the 2023-24 regular season. And MLB may be working on a deal (via Sportico) to keep those networks afloat as the primary place to watch regular season games for 2024. But Amazon also appears to have an interest in investing in Diamond Sports, according to Tuesday reporting from the Wall Street Journal.
Amazon's entry into the conversation is where TVREV's Alan Wolk and I started to hypothesize where all of this is headed — for both the leagues and for Amazon, should the wind up being involved.
As WSJ notes, there's a streaming component here, and that distribution angle is just part of the draw for Amazon. Yes, the company has pushed to air more live sports, but it wouldn't have to take over the entire broadcast function the same way it has with the NFL's Thursday Night spot.
Instead, an arrangement with Diamond Sports could allow Amazon to function as a vMVPD — as it already does with other premium subscription options — and let customers tack on their respective RSN to Prime Video for a monthly fee. Amazon would be the access point for that content, and be the ones serving the ads, and of course, collecting the data... which would be much more local-specific than what it's getting during NFL games or scripted TV shows right now.
It also sets Amazon up well to grow on the back of baseball, in particular:
Amazon's self-serve ad business is aimed at SMBs, many of whom are
local. With RSNs in the fold, the games now provide those advertisers a nice array of inventory for those companies to advertise against, at a price point that probably makes more sense than its other video offerings (but is also much more targeted).
Amazon also gets to simply increase its video inventory as an opportunity to promote its other video offerings to consumers that may not otherwise watch Amazon programs. This is especially interesting for baseball, which has a lot of interest in the middle of the country, where Amazon's programs may not have the same penetration yet as they do on the coasts.
That increased inventory also gives bigger advertisers opportunities for more targeted ads that Amazon can charge a premium for, as the company of course knows their purchasing behaviors in full.
Lastly, the RSNs help ensure that sports fans don't feel the need to upgrade to ad-free programming, since sports comes with ads regardless.
That's all just the beginning, of course. If the NBA's deal means that many fans will be purchasing local game subscriptions directly through the league (via League Pass or another, new mechanism) starting in 2024-25, Amazon could be a natural partner there as well. Amazon could also separately wind up factoring into the NBA's upcoming media rights negotiations, and part of that could include some sort of League Pass/local RSN tie-in. There, the same benefits would apply for Amazon, albeit with a younger and more diverse audience than that of MLB.
In a sports viewing environment where everything is increasingly a tile on your smart TV, and less a cable provider or channel to tune into, Amazon is making itself a central hub (bundle, anyone?) that consumers want for this content. Such a move seems poised to supercharge Amazon's nascent ad business in a way that competitors won't find as easy to mimic.
No idea what the Brewers needs are, but Eric Haase is a decent depth signing. Catcher and outfielder, has hit for power. He forgot how to hit last year. If he finds it, he is a righthanded bat that could get you 15 home runs. Streaky, so he might get 5 of them in two weeks.
Needed a backup catcher with Caratini moving on and Quero a year or two away.
I like the signing.
Stearns just scammed the Brewers.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 20, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
Stearns just scammed the Brewers.
I disagree. If the Brewers would have made this trade 2 years ago, I'd agree.
But as well as Taylor played in September, he would probably only be a 5th OF this year. Those guys are a dime a dozen.
And guys like Houser are easy to find. He's the type of pitcher that KC or Pittsburg sign as a FA.
Frees up two 40 man spots and get an interesting arm. I don't love the return, but could be part of a series of moves.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 20, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
Stearns just scammed the Brewers.
Yes. Although scam implies the Brewers think this is a good deal for them. More on that below. Breaking the trade down, they give up two veterans who aren't all stars, but have had plenty of success at the major league level, aren't injured, and will be part of next year's Mets. For a low level minor league pitcher who is coming off TJ surgery and hasn't pitched above AA. It was nothing more than cost cutting to avoid raises to both in arbitration.
You recently asked what fan's problem is with Attanasio. This is a perfect example. He doesn't really care about winning. He cares about keeping costs down and being profitable. That's his number one priority. He only cares enough to put a competitive enough team on the field so attendance doesn't crash. This is why Stearns left. This trade by any objective standard is a joke and fleecing by Stearns and the Mets.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 21, 2023, 07:50:11 AM
Yes. Two veterans who aren't all stars, but have had plenty of success at the major league level, aren't injured, and will be part of next year's Mets. For a low level minor league pitcher who is coming off TJ surgery and hasn't pitched above AA. It was nothing more than cost cutting to avoid raises to both in arbitration.
You recently asked what fan's problem is with Attanasio. This is a perfect example. He doesn't really care about winning. He cares about keeping costs down and being profitable. That's his number one priority. He only cares enough to put a competitive enough team on the field so attendance doesn't crash. This is why Stearns left. This trade by any objective standard is a joke and fleecing by Stearns and the Mets.
This is what smart, low revenue teams do. They get rid of arb eligible role players. Seriously Tyrone Taylor???
And of course he wants to win. That's just silly talk.
Quote from: Jockey on December 20, 2023, 04:37:12 PM
I disagree. If the Brewers would have made this trade 2 years ago, I'd agree.
But as well as Taylor played in September, he would probably only be a 5th OF this year. Those guys are a dime a dozen.
And guys like Houser are easy to find. He's the type of pitcher that KC or Pittsburg sign as a FA.
Brewers could have kept Taylor as insurance. Wiemer needs a lot of work, Mitchell is largely unproven and coming off a major injury. Yelich is injured a lot, is a lousy outfielder who they can only play LF, and production dropped off the last month. Houser is a solid, but unspectacular starter who isn't injured. He is not an easy replace. Teams could do much worse than him in the rotation. And starting pitching depth is about as critical in importance as anything in baseball. Both players had plenty to offer next year's Brewers.
And they gave them away for a guy who probably won't even pitch in '24 and may never see the majors. He was a low, at best middling prospect before his injury even.
Stearns is a very smart guy and knows exactly what he's doing.
I don't think Stearns left due to Attanasio being cheap. I think he has always wanted to get back to his hometown team. The dynamics of a small market team probably played a large role, but I think if he had any success in Milwaukee, the Mets were always his dream.
No doubt that a big part of the motivation for the Brewers was cutting $7MM of payroll for a backend starter and depth OF. If that means you think its a bad deal for the Brewers because improving/maintaining the talent level on the field always should take precedence over $$, then I'm not going to convince you otherwise, but you should probably root for a team that doesn't play its home games in Milwaukee.
I do think the return here was light. It seems to me three years of Taylor alone should have been able to pull Crow entering a post-TJ dead year. He's not a nothing prospect, but he has a lot of questions with the injury. And a year of Houser at ~$5.5 has plus value and should have been good for at least an additional lottery ticket.
While it might be an indictment of the Mets farm system or the Brewers farm system, or both, but pre-deal Crow was top 30 prospect by rating in the Mets system, and I just saw one rating org slot him in at #25 in the Brewers' system.
Quibble about opportunity costs/whether one could have gotten more for Houser/Taylor, but it's not like some decent number of evaluators don't view Crow as an arm with big-league potential.
Boras trying to bait the Cubs. ;D
https://www.audacy.com/670thescore/sports/chicago-cubs/scott-boras-hopes-cubs-will-step-to-re-sign-cody-bellinger
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 21, 2023, 08:03:08 AM
Brewers could have kept Taylor as insurance. Wiemer needs a lot of work, Mitchell is largely unproven and coming off a major injury. Yelich is injured a lot, is a lousy outfielder who they can only play LF, and production dropped off the last month. Houser is a solid, but unspectacular starter who isn't injured. He is not an easy replace. Teams could do much worse than him in the rotation. And starting pitching depth is about as critical in importance as anything in baseball. Both players had plenty to offer next year's Brewers.
And they gave them away for a guy who probably won't even pitch in '24 and may never see the majors. He was a low, at best middling prospect before his injury even.
Stearns is a very smart guy and knows exactly what he's doing.
A 30 year old guy with a career OBP of .294?
Guys like that are a dime a dozen.
With the Yamamoto signing, Dodgers in total have spent $1.1 billion so far this offseason.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on December 21, 2023, 10:26:33 PM
With the Yamamoto signing, Dodgers in total have spent $1.1 billion so far this offseason.
And they will make money from the investment.
Quote from: tower912 on December 15, 2023, 08:43:40 AM
It was. It will just take another few decades.
...along with divisional and inter league play.
Interesting Stats:
Surprised by how few black players are in the leagues.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1310428/racial-diversity-mlb-players/
Dodgers have spent $180 million more than the rest of league so far this offseason.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on December 22, 2023, 09:22:43 AM
Dodgers have spent $180 million more than the rest of league so far this offseason.
MLB has hit English Premier League levels of team salary disparity.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on December 22, 2023, 09:22:43 AM
Dodgers have spent $180 million more than the rest of league so far this offseason.
It's a good thing that MLB has the luxury tax to help small mid market teams stay competitive
Ohtani shoulda waited fore a $billion, aina?
Yamamoto is interesting to me in the fact that he is only 5'10. There hasn't been a Cy Young winner under 6' in decades (I guess Lincecum was right on the border). The only short high level SP I can think of in the league right now is Strohman.
His numbers and performance in Japan speak for themselves, he's been absolutely absurd the last few years. And he's been on the MLB radar for much longer than that. But still, $300MM for a power pitcher thats about 6 inches shorter than the average high for a Cy Young winner in the last 25 years is interesting on its face.
Quote from: JWags85 on December 22, 2023, 09:54:14 AM
Yamamoto is interesting to me in the fact that he is only 5'10. There hasn't been a Cy Young winner under 6' in decades (I guess Lincecum was right on the border). The only short high level SP I can think of in the league right now is Strohman.
Sonny Gray also
Quote from: JWags85 on December 22, 2023, 09:54:14 AM
Yamamoto is interesting to me in the fact that he is only 5'10. There hasn't been a Cy Young winner under 6' in decades (I guess Lincecum was right on the border). The only short high level SP I can think of in the league right now is Strohman.
His numbers and performance in Japan speak for themselves, he's been absolutely absurd the last few years. And he's been on the MLB radar for much longer than that. But still, $300MM for a power pitcher thats about 6 inches shorter than the average high for a Cy Young winner in the last 25 years is interesting on its face.
Yeah I really havent followed the guy at all so I was surprised to see how short he is. He does have a crazy pitching repetoire though. And I read about his training regime and how he generates such velo at a small size its pretty impressive.
I think the biggest thing will be if his size makes it so he declines faster. Kinda like how lincecum fell off. He might lose that top velo quicker than most.
But as you said the numbers in Japan speak for themselves. Insane K to BB ratio.
short kings needs to be an immaculate grid category
Quote from: MU1in77 on December 22, 2023, 09:45:01 AM
It's a good thing that MLB has the luxury tax to help small mid market teams stay competitive
It's collectively bargained. The owners don't have the guts or sticktoitiveness to do anything about it.
Quote from: MU1in77 on December 22, 2023, 09:45:01 AM
It's a good thing that MLB has the luxury tax to help small mid market teams stay competitive
Many of the owners of small market teams just pocket the money that they get from the luxury tax.
50 years ago today ...
George Steinbrenner bought the Yankees from CBS for $10 million. The team, still owned by the Steinbrenner family, is now worth about $7 billion.
Now THAT'S a good investment!
Money trees.
(https://scontent.faus1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/418977226_909660270518725_3117665171026185331_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=3635dc&_nc_ohc=woe7ItW9v_YAX_bv2L3&_nc_ht=scontent.faus1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDUW_Gp0Ngsyq_wUhf956gNrLonVDi1mWuRQ8SJbD6lHw&oe=65A74DF0)
Interesting news leaking that the Sox are in serious talks to buy the 78 neighborhood. It's amazing that land has never been developed, but it makes a ton of sense for a sports team. The Bears passing on developing it never made sense, and I wonder if the Sox were waiting out word from Arlington Heights before pursuing the 78.
If they build there, it would be a smart move, but need to see the finances.
Quote from: MU82 on January 13, 2024, 04:16:52 PM
(https://scontent.faus1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/418977226_909660270518725_3117665171026185331_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=3635dc&_nc_ohc=woe7ItW9v_YAX_bv2L3&_nc_ht=scontent.faus1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDUW_Gp0Ngsyq_wUhf956gNrLonVDi1mWuRQ8SJbD6lHw&oe=65A74DF0)
You finally are making sense! Keep up the good work.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 17, 2024, 08:39:46 PM
You finally are making sense! Keep up the good work.
I guess I was speechless.
Quote from: MU82 on January 17, 2024, 09:21:18 PM
I guess I was speechless.
First time for everything, eh Mike?
Josh Hader to the Astros 5yr/$95 million
Honestly didnt really expect Mauer to be 1st ballot. But cool
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 23, 2024, 05:25:44 PM
Honestly didnt really expect Mauer to be 1st ballot. But cool
Once Scott Rolen made the HOF, it was obvious the place no longer mattered
Mauer being a first ballot guy is something.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 23, 2024, 05:44:48 PM
Mauer being a first ballot guy is something.
7th all-time catcher using JAWS.
No dog in this fight but, yeah, I wouldn't have been fighting to put him in
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 23, 2024, 06:35:24 PM
7th all-time catcher using JAWS.
No dog in this fight but, yeah, I wouldn't have been fighting to put him in
Yadi occupied spots 1-6
Mauer deserved to be in, but 1st ballot is wild.
He was so good as a catcher. Unfortunately the knees/brain went to jelly.
Still, probably coulda raked like Helton did if he played half his games at coors. His splits were a joke.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 23, 2024, 07:22:11 PM
Yadi occupied spots 1-6
Yadi won't even be on a ballot. His enshrinement is implied.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 23, 2024, 08:10:01 PM
Yadi won't even be on a ballot. His enshrinement is implied.
Yadi just won the Rican championship. Warm up for taking over the Cards job in June.
A good baseball move by the Brewers in an offseason of none of them
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 23, 2024, 10:24:23 PM
A good baseball move by the Brewers in an offseason of none of them
Yes, like getting Hoskins. Low risk, big reward potential. He's not an old guy (31 during spring training) who's been nothing but productive and consistent.
And agree again, a bright spot in what's been a crummy offseason for the Crew. When Eric Haase and a guy who's missed two full seasons (Ross) are your biggest additions until this, that's a very, very low bar to improve on.
Good for Mauer. Quite an achievement getting into the Hall - let alone on the first ballot - when you spend half your career as a lighter-hitting, poorer-fielding version of Mark Grace.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on January 23, 2024, 10:36:49 PM
Yes, like getting Hoskins. Low risk, big reward potential. He's not an old guy (31 during spring training) who's been nothing but productive and consistent.
And agree again, a bright spot in what's been a crummy offseason for the Crew. When Eric Haase and a guy who's missed two full seasons (Ross) are your biggest additions until this, that's a very, very low bar to improve on.
I think it's been a fairly quiet offseason around MLB.
Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 06:54:28 AM
Good for Mauer. Quite an achievement getting into the Hall - let alone on the first ballot - when you spend half your career as a lighter-hitting, poorer-fielding version of Mark Grace.
Until he hit the juice in 2009
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 24, 2024, 06:57:12 AM
I think it's been a fairly quiet offseason around MLB.
Yeah, after the initial free agent rush, stuff happens later and later in the off season these days. Pretty much all over. Criticizing the Brewers for that means you should criticize about 2/3 of the teams in MLB.
Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 06:54:28 AM
Good for Mauer. Quite an achievement getting into the Hall - let alone on the first ballot - when you spend half your career as a lighter-hitting, poorer-fielding version of Mark Grace.
I take it you didn't vote for him?
Quote from: lawdog77 on January 24, 2024, 07:39:12 AM
Until he hit the juice in 2009
I was talking about the rest of his career after 2009. Over his last 9 seasons = .294 BA, .412 slug, .788 OPS, 71 HR (9/yr avg), 526 RBI (58/yr avg). This stretch of mediocrity covered the majority of his career (62% of his games).
He was an outstanding catcher for a half-dozen seasons and had incredible timing to have by far his best season in his walk year, but then injuries and age forced him to play other positions (not very well) and DH, and he produced the above mediocre stats.
Also, a grand total of 1 RBI and .641 OPS in 44 plate appearances over 4 postseasons that featured first-round exits (all sweeps) ... so he wasn't exactly Mr. October, either.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 24, 2024, 07:50:50 AM
I take it you didn't vote for him?
Haven't had a vote for many years.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 23, 2024, 06:35:24 PM
7th all-time catcher using JAWS.
No dog in this fight but, yeah, I wouldn't have been fighting to put him in
Yea, until Mauer, there had been 2 MVPs as a C in 50 years in the AL (Munson and Pudge). 4 total in both leagues (the aforementioned plus Bench and Posey). He won it in his 5th full season and had 2 other top 5 finishes in the other 4 years. He was absolutely unreal through 2010, not 2009 (2010 was another GG/SS season hitting .330/.470/870.
For a HOF that has become very reliant on counting stats for entry for very good but not all time great players, first ballot HOF for someone who was clearly a top 10 C of all time for 5+ years at his peak isn't an issue to me.
Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 09:06:38 AM
I was talking about the rest of his career after 2009. Over his last 9 seasons = .294 BA, .412 slug, .788 OPS, 71 HR (9/yr avg), 526 RBI (58/yr avg). This stretch of mediocrity covered the majority of his career (62% of his games).
He was an outstanding catcher for a half-dozen seasons and had incredible timing to have by far his best season in his walk year, but then injuries and age forced him to play other positions (not very well) and DH, and he produced the above mediocre stats.
Also, a grand total of 1 RBI and .641 OPS in 44 plate appearances over 4 postseasons that featured first-round exits (all sweeps) ... so he wasn't exactly Mr. October, either.
Haven't had a vote for many years.
I could be wrong. But the way you worded this with tossing the comma on after to then point to the stats again. Leads me to believe you are saying Mauer did not defensively play his new position well.
If so, that is wrong.
As a 1B he hit closer to Nick Punto than Albert Pujols. But he was a very good defender. Which should be no surprise given his athletic background.
A's Vegas deal shaky as expected. What a mess...
https://www.si.com/mlb/athletics/relocation/as-need-new-site-in-las-vegas
Tigers sign a top prospect to a 6 (with an option for 3 more) year major league deal before he plays his fist MLB game. Colt Keith.
Didn't Milwaukee do something similar?
If he pans out, it is a steal for the Tigers. Club control until he is 31.
Quote from: tower912 on January 29, 2024, 07:25:59 AM
Tigers sign a top prospect to a 6 (with an option for 3 more) year major league deal before he plays his fist MLB game. Colt Keith.
Didn't Milwaukee do something similar?
Yep.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/jackson-chourio-extension-brewers-reach-historic-82-million-deal-with-mlbs-no-7-prospect/
Looks like Burnes is on his way to the Orioles.
An interesting if mildly underwhelming haul. The SS in the deal is MLB ready, so Adames might not be long for MKE either.
Makes the Hoskins deal somewhat confusing.
Quote from: GB Warrior on February 01, 2024, 07:34:12 PM
An interesting if mildly underwhelming haul. The SS in the deal is MLB ready, so Adames might not be long for MKE either.
Makes the Hoskins deal somewhat confusing.
Maybe the pitching lab unlocks something in Hall to make him a starter. I think some might have been hoping for a Cy Young Burnes return, but he hasn't been that guy the last two years.
Two good prospects and the 34th pick in this year's draft. Plus Hall is a lefty where they're very thin. Ortiz plays a premium position too. For a guy who might be in Baltimore only this season.
Ortiz is basically major league ready now and Hall made 18 appearances last year with the O's.
The Brewers did fine in this, but still disappointing they've clearly written off contending this year. More unloading to come, Adames and Williams probably next to go. Yelich too if they can find someone to take at least some of his contract. Changing of the guard in Milwaukee.
Quote from: cheebs09 on February 01, 2024, 07:58:30 PM
Maybe the pitching lab unlocks something in Hall to make him a starter. I think some might have been hoping for a Cy Young Burnes return, but he hasn't been that guy the last two years.
Maybe, but there's definite value if Hall remains a reliever, where he was solid last year. Milner'a been their only viable left reliever the last two years.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 01, 2024, 08:54:49 PM
Maybe, but there's definite value if Hall remains a reliever, where he was solid last year. Milner'a been their only viable left reliever the last two years.
Rip off the band aid and trade Adames and Williams, too.
See if Hall can start, put Ortiz at SS and Black at 3B. Maybe go Ortiz 3B, Black 2B, Turang SS. Go young across the whole roster. Might suck this year but see what you got.
I have different expectations for the Brewers (Wild Card) than I do for the Packers (Super Bowl) because i realzie how market forces tilt the field in certain ways. I am not a Mark A hater. I understand his realities.
That all being said...
With Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta we never made it out of the WC round. IMO it wasn't Mark's cheapness, it was his patience. He listened to Stearns and bought in to the "bites of the apple" theory. Sometimes you have to go all in. They did the opposite.
They'll probably be back winning close to 90 games very soon. It's a very well run org. But they won't go deep.
I hope I am wrong, I pray that I am wrong.
They went all in when they traded for Yelich and signed Cain the same day. TBH, I bet they viewed the Adames trade the same way.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 02, 2024, 08:37:02 AM
They went all in when they traded for Yelich and signed Cain the same day. TBH, I bet they viewed the Adames trade the same way.
That was almost a different era. It was before any of the big 3 were rotation guys, before Hader was develeoped. 2018 was a horseshoe year in many respects. I am speaking more to how they managed the past 3-4 years.
Quote from: The Lens on February 02, 2024, 08:44:19 AM
That was almost a different era. It was before any of the big 3 were rotation guys, before Hader was develeoped. 2018 was a horseshoe year in many respects. I am speaking more to how they managed the past 3-4 years.
The Adames trade was 2021. I think that was their "going all in" moment. And it almost worked right? They were the 2-seed with home field advantage in the WC round only to fold against Atlanta.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 02, 2024, 08:48:43 AM
The Adames trade was 2021. I think that was their "going all in" moment. And it almost worked right? They were the 2-seed with home field advantage in the WC round only to fold against Atlanta.
You could be right. I never saw it as that because I didn't view the investment as too substanial. I know Ras and Fireisen (sp) were solid but not much more than that, in my eyes.
I'll be honest, I need to stop posting. I cannot speak intelligently or rationally about Brewer baseball. And the Hader trade killed me, that was classic "but the computer says so" move.
Nah, keep posting.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 02, 2024, 08:24:17 AM
Rip off the band aid and trade Adames and Williams, too.
See if Hall can start, put Ortiz at SS and Black at 3B. Maybe go Ortiz 3B, Black 2B, Turang SS. Go young across the whole roster. Might suck this year but see what you got.
I agree to actively seek an Adames trade and see what we have or don't have with their young infielders. I'd love to trade Yelich too and do the same with all their young outfielders.
Williams I'd be more reluctant to trade. If you're blowing saves, that's going to hurt a very young team's confidence. But they're going nowhere this year, so I'd certainly listen on offers for Williams. It would just take one that you can't refuse for me to move him too. Especially any team getting him has club control through'25.
One last thing before I stop posting...
Since 2020 the Brewers had (arguably)
The best rotation
The best manager
The best defense
The best back end
And all it yielded was a few WC stickers below Uecker's perch. I will now cry myself to sleep and stop adding misery to this thread. Sorry I inserted myself, I'm no help to anyone.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 02, 2024, 08:58:34 AM
I agree to actively seek an Adames trade and see what we have or don't have with their young infielders. I'd love to trade Yelich too and do the same with all their young outfielders.
Williams I'd be more reluctant to trade. If you're blowing saves, that's going to hurt a very young team's confidence. But they're going nowhere this year, so I'd certainly listen on offers for Williams. It would just take one that you can't refuse for me to move him too. Especially any team getting him has club control through'25.
They've done a good job identifying relief pitchers. I'm confident they could move someone into that role. Not saying THEY HAVE to trade him, but he's not someone they have to keep as a future piece.
He is one I hold onto until July anyway as we'll see some contenders desperate for pen help
Like any trade, it all depends on what you get back.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 02, 2024, 09:16:44 AM
Like any trade, it all depends on what you get back.
Trade him for a used BIKE, aina?
Williams just waits to blow games until the Playoffs. Or punches walls and misses the Playoffs altogether.
Quote from: The Lens on February 02, 2024, 09:05:56 AM
One last thing before I stop posting...
Since 2020 the Brewers had (arguably)
The best rotation
The best manager
The best defense
The best back end
And all it yielded was a few WC stickers below Uecker's perch. I will now cry myself to sleep and stop adding misery to this thread. Sorry I inserted myself, I'm no help to anyone.
That's called being a Brewers fan.
I feel Brewers fortunes might have been different if Yelich didn't foul that pitch off his knee. Same way I think the Packers have another Super Bowl if Nick Collins stays healthy.
The pennant race in 2018 was exhilirating - everything you wanted over those two aquisitions. They never attempted push the envelope beyond that. I agree, if Yelich doesn't get hurt, who knows?
Right now, you trade Adames and see what you got. This team is good enough to compete for the division. Fall flat, then you sell off other pieces at the deadline. But right now, get what you can for Willy and see what happens.
Quote from: The Lens on February 02, 2024, 09:05:56 AM
One last thing before I stop posting...
Since 2020 the Brewers had (arguably)
The best rotation
The best manager
The best defense
The best back end
And all it yielded was a few WC stickers below Uecker's perch. I will now cry myself to sleep and stop adding misery to this thread. Sorry I inserted myself, I'm no help to anyone.
Trying hard to feel your pain - was almost there until I remembered that I'm a White Sox fan.
Las Vegas mayor says the As should just stay in Oakland.
https://x.com/FOS_Today/status/1754883211270684831?s=20
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 06, 2024, 12:07:06 PM
Las Vegas mayor says the As should just stay in Oakland.
https://x.com/FOS_Today/status/1754883211270684831?s=20
Ha. Even they don't want to deal with John Fisher.
Does anybody know what the White Sox's new GM is doing? Text book rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Bunch of trades, no young talent added and projected still at 100+ loses. ::)
Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 07, 2024, 08:40:52 PM
Does anybody know what the White Sox's new GM is doing? Text book rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Bunch of trades, no young talent added and projected still at 100+ loses. ::)
No young talent added?
I don't think they're trying to win, but they've certain added a lot of younger players.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 07, 2024, 09:40:10 PM
No young talent added?
I don't think they're trying to win, but they've certain added a lot of younger players.
Yeah, they've done kinda fine for a team that's not going to compete in 2024. Selling off bullpen pieces is fine by me.
It's really something the velocity with which the new potential stadium plans are headed. I realize they're under a tight window with TIF funding that expires at the end of the year, but compare that to the Bears, who have the same TIF deadline looming. Polar opposite so far between the two organizations.
Brewers add Catcher Gary Sanchez on a $7MM deal.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/brewers-to-sign-gary-sanchez.html
Initial report has him as a backup catcher and occasional DH against lefties, but for that kind of money, it makes me wonder if they might work to trade Contreras and set up Jeferson Quero for the future. Otherwise, it seems like an odd signing.
From Fangraphs:
ZiPS has the White Sox as one of the worst teams in baseball, with little to look forward to outside of Dylan Cease, Luis Robert Jr., and the hope that Yoán Moncada and Eloy Jiménez get back on track. This organization is in a very dangerous position in that, like the Rockies a few years ago, I'm not sure it truly understands where it stands.
Quote from: Jockey on February 08, 2024, 05:42:47 PM
From Fangraphs:
ZiPS has the White Sox as one of the worst teams in baseball, with little to look forward to outside of Dylan Cease, Luis Robert Jr., and the hope that Yoán Moncada and Eloy Jiménez get back on track. This organization is in a very dangerous position in that, like the Rockies a few years ago, I'm not sure it truly understands where it stands.
They badly need Cease to come out looking close to Cy Young Cease and trade him with value.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 08, 2024, 07:19:47 PM
They badly need Cease to come out looking close to Cy Young Cease and trade him with value.
I think 2022 may have been a one-off.
He isn't as good as that, but also not as bad as last year. Just a good, solid, near top of the rotation guy.
Quote from: Jockey on February 08, 2024, 08:24:29 PM
I think 2022 may have been a one-off.
He isn't as good as that, but also not as bad as last year. Just a good, solid, near top of the rotation guy.
Yup agreed. Walks too many guys
Just saying it would be good for them though if he can come out super hot and up the value they need to move him but the value is a bit plateaued.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 08, 2024, 10:19:10 PM
Yup agreed. Walks too many guys
Just saying it would be good for them though if he can come out super hot and up the value they need to move him but the value is a bit plateaued.
Absolutely.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 08, 2024, 10:45:36 AM
Brewers add Catcher Gary Sanchez on a $7MM deal.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/brewers-to-sign-gary-sanchez.html
Initial report has him as a backup catcher and occasional DH against lefties, but for that kind of money, it makes me wonder if they might work to trade Contreras and set up Jeferson Quero for the future. Otherwise, it seems like an odd signing.
Contreras is going nowhere, nor should he. He's under team control for 4 years, including this season and is just scratching the surface of his ceiling. He's already their best hitter, hits for power and average.
Quero has played 90 games of AA ball. He almost certainly won't be ready this year.
Sanchez can reduce the strain of everyday catching grind on Contreras and keep him fresh. Then can be a good DH against lefties like you said, who he's had much success against his career.
Don't read so much into this.
I agree with you on Contreras--he has real value to keep.
After sleeping on this, it seems more likely that the Brewers will flip Sanchez for prospects at the trade deadline. This move reminds me of what Stearns did several years ago (2016 or 2017 maybe?) when he signed a few discounted veterans late in the free agent season and then traded them off for prospects in July.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 09, 2024, 11:53:55 AM
I agree with you on Contreras--he has real value to keep.
After sleeping on this, it seems more likely that the Brewers will flip Sanchez for prospects at the trade deadline. This move reminds me of what Stearns did several years ago (2016 or 2017 maybe?) when he signed a few discounted veterans late in the free agent season and then traded them off for prospects in July.
Unless Sanchez is a different player this year, they ain't swapping him for much.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 09, 2024, 11:53:55 AM
I agree with you on Contreras--he has real value to keep.
After sleeping on this, it seems more likely that the Brewers will flip Sanchez for prospects at the trade deadline. This move reminds me of what Stearns did several years ago (2016 or 2017 maybe?) when he signed a few discounted veterans late in the free agent season and then traded them off for prospects in July.
Agree definitely in trying to flip Sanchez, also Junis at the deadline for prospects if they're out of it. But in the meantime, they've picked up a couple veterans who've had generally productive careers that might help them stay in the race. Nobody looks scary in the Central right now. Pretty wide open and if they're young position guys can play, they have a strong bullpen, so who knows.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 09, 2024, 02:04:09 PM
Unless Sanchez is a different player this year, they ain't swapping him for much.
Just short of 20 HR and .800 OPS in a limited role and a non hitters ballpark. He's way better than Nola and Haase as a backup to Contreras. And he's always hit lefties very well. I like additions of him and Junis.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 09, 2024, 11:53:55 AM
This move reminds me of what Stearns did several years ago (2016 or 2017 maybe?) when he signed a few discounted veterans late in the free agent season and then traded them off for prospects in July.
Is 7m for Sanchez a discount?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 09, 2024, 06:29:20 PM
Is 7m for Sanchez a discount?
I think so. Being only a 1 year deal most likely means it's pretty low risk.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 09, 2024, 06:29:20 PM
Is 7m for Sanchez a discount?
Mark isn't spending the money on a soccer team; let's not look a gift horse in the mouth
Keith Law has the brewers as the #2 farm system in baseball, behind only the Orioles.
Quote from: Jockey on February 12, 2024, 05:15:06 PM
Keith Law has the brewers as the #2 farm system in baseball, behind only the Orioles.
Will be watching how the pitchers develop. Have infielders galore.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2024, 05:20:55 PM
Will be watching how the pitchers develop. Have infielders galore.
Hall, Gasser, and Misiorowski could all become stars - or they could just become #4 or #5 starters. One or two could even end up in the pen.
Bad news is that all 5 Central teams are in the top half of farm systems right now.
Quote from: Jockey on February 12, 2024, 05:24:56 PM
Hall, Gasser, and Misiorowski could all become stars - or they could just become #4 or #5 starters. One or two could even end up in the pen.
Bad news is that all 5 Central teams are in the top half of farm systems right now.
I trust them to develop arms
Woody back on a 2 year deal is nice. I'd imagine it can't be very big money. High upside, but shoulder injuries are definitely the worst injuries for pitchers.
Tell me about Hiura and Canha.
Quote from: tower912 on February 19, 2024, 08:47:55 PM
Tell me about Hiura and Canha.
Hiura was awesome until the Brewers tried to change his launch angle and now he can't hit anything at the major league level. He's a 4A player. Rakes in the minors. Ks and roll over grounders in the majors. Rickie Weeks 2.0.
Dominic Smith. David Peralta.
Cubs not letting Sox corner the market on mediocrity.
Yesterday, Ricketts said they haven't started negotiations with Bellinger.
Has anyone checked the water in Chicago?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 19, 2024, 08:52:43 PM
Hiura was awesome until the Brewers tried to change his launch angle and now he can't hit anything at the major league level. He's a 4A player. Rakes in the minors. Ks and roll over grounders in the majors. Rickie Weeks 2.0.
Did he stop hitting cause the Brewers changed his swing? Or did MLB pitching just figure him out.
Anyone ever been to Spring Training in Clearwater?
Never been big into Spring Training, but seeing as the Phillies are less than 15 min away, I was considering heading over the once or twice. It will be cooler when my son is a bit older and able to appreciate it, but still interesting
Quote from: JWags85 on February 20, 2024, 03:21:34 PM
Anyone ever been to Spring Training in Clearwater?
Never been big into Spring Training, but seeing as the Phillies are less than 15 min away, I was considering heading over the once or twice. It will be cooler when my son is a bit older and able to appreciate it, but still interesting
I'm interested to hear opinions on the Grapefruit League too. I've been to ST in AZ, and while cool one thing I didn't expect is how far the stadiums are from each other. Doing multiple games per day requires a DD or similar transportation arrangements (full disclosure I was there for a bachelor party).
Quote from: tower912 on February 19, 2024, 08:47:55 PM
Tell me about Hiura and Canha.
Canha and Urshela are a fun little combo. The ceilings aren't super high but they get on base, don't hurt you, and should improve the lineup around Greene and Torkelson.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 24, 2024, 12:16:43 PM
Canha and Urshela are a fun little combo. The ceilings aren't super high but they get on base, don't hurt you, and should improve the lineup around Greene and Torkelson.
Detroit has made a number of subtle, low risk, high reward moves. Canha, Hiura, Urshela, Maeda, Flaherty, Chafin, Shelby Miller. To my eyes, it looks like they think they can win the AL Central. I don't see how it is possibly enough to go further, but that would be a nice start.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 24, 2024, 12:16:43 PM
Canha and Urshela are a fun little combo. The ceilings aren't super high but they get on base, don't hurt you, and should improve the lineup around Greene and Torkelson.
None of their other teams (8 of them) thought they were worthwhile to keep.
Quote from: Jockey on February 24, 2024, 04:18:41 PM
None of their other teams (8 of them) thought they were worthwhile to keep.
Canha is on an $11.5M exercised team option that Det deemed to have enough surplus value to also offer a minor league arm for the right to exercise it, so that's pretty valuable.
I agree that Urshela seemed to have little to no market, though. That surprised me, he's still pretty young and has had some success, but it's also not a sexy profile so I get why teams would rather devote their $1 million flyers on bullpen arms or elsewhere
Quote from: Jockey on February 24, 2024, 04:18:41 PM
None of their other teams (8 of them) thought they were worthwhile to keep.
I like Maeda, if healthy he could be a big boost to their rotation. Anyone but the White Sox could win that division.
Bellinger back to the Cubs. 3/80 with opt -outs after year 1 and 2.
Hoyer wins the staring contest. Great deal for the Cubs and could still work out really well for Bellinger if he performs.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 25, 2024, 07:05:10 AM
Bellinger back to the Cubs. 3/80 with opt -outs after year 1 and 2.
Hoyer wins the staring contest. Great deal for the Cubs and could still work out really well for Bellinger if he performs.
Boras tries to get teams to bid against themselves, often successfully. Not this time.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 25, 2024, 07:05:10 AM
Bellinger back to the Cubs. 3/80 with opt -outs after year 1 and 2.
Hoyer wins the staring contest. Great deal for the Cubs and could still work out really well for Bellinger if he performs.
Really good deal all around.
Bellinger is kind of a crazy situation. Won an NL MVP 4 years, severly regressed/got hurt. Now gets a change of scenery and wins Comeback Player of the Year in a really productive year where he hit a career high in average. But what's crazy is that he's only 28
Quote from: JWags85 on February 25, 2024, 09:58:24 PM
Bellinger is kind of a crazy situation. Won an NL MVP 4 years, severly regressed/got hurt. Now gets a change of scenery and wins Comeback Player of the Year in a really productive year where he hit a career high in average. But what's crazy is that he's only 28
Yep - I think teams were really spooked by his batted ball profile last year. Despite his success, a look under the hood suggests he wasn't really squaring up or hitting the ball very hard. He's giving new-Yelich and Benintendi blender vibes right now, which while useful, is tough to commit to long term.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 24, 2024, 11:23:26 AM
I'm interested to hear opinions on the Grapefruit League too. I've been to ST in AZ, and while cool one thing I didn't expect is how far the stadiums are from each other. Doing multiple games per day requires a DD or similar transportation arrangements (full disclosure I was there for a bachelor party).
AZ is much more compact than the Grapefruit League. Much more distance in Florida.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 26, 2024, 09:32:38 AM
Yep - I think teams were really spooked by his batted ball profile last year. Despite his success, a look under the hood suggests he wasn't really squaring up or hitting the ball very hard. He's giving new-Yelich and Benintendi blender vibes right now, which while useful, is tough to commit to long term.
I get your point (and you are 100% correct on Bellinger) but Yelich hits the ball much harder than Bellinger or Benintendi. In fact, I think Yelich squares up and hits the ball harder than anyone on the Brewers' roster. A better Brewer comparison for Belly would be Adames.
Yelich's salary is in line with comparable outfielders - it's not an awful contract. Not great for the Brewers, but not terrible.
So steroids were a good investment? Maybe Braun would be a better one to ax, hey?
Congrats to Brandon Crawford for finally getting to play baseball the right way
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 26, 2024, 03:31:21 PM
Congrats to Brandon Crawford for finally getting to play baseball the right way
In front the Best Fans in Baseball
TM.
5 years into his 13-year, $330 million contract, Bryce Harper says he wants an extension for a ton more money.
He has no opt-out clause in the contract, which at the time was the richest in the history of North American team sports.
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2024, 08:05:50 AM
5 years into his 13-year, $330 million contract, Bryce Harper says he wants an extension for a ton more money.
He has no opt-out clause in the contract, which at the time was the richest in the history of North American team sports.
Seems crazy, but he's totally right. $25MM a year for the level of player he is currently is pretty damn undervalued. If he was a FA, he would be getting $35MM a year pretty easily.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 28, 2024, 08:20:39 AM
Seems crazy, but he's totally right. $25MM a year for the level of player he is currently is pretty damn undervalued. If he was a FA, he would be getting $35MM a year pretty easily.
He also signed the contract and that's always been the point of a lot of longer deals.
Lock yourself in for insane amount of yeaes and never have to worry again.
On the flip side value may change, always.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 28, 2024, 08:20:39 AM
Seems crazy, but he's totally right. $25MM a year for the level of player he is currently is pretty damn undervalued. If he was a FA, he would be getting $35MM a year pretty easily.
If he's "right" about this, that means he was "wrong" when he insisted on the contract he received.
It could get ugly if he pulls a Harden.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 28, 2024, 08:26:07 AM
He also signed the contract and that's always been the point of a lot of longer deals.
Lock yourself in for insane amount of yeaes and never have to worry again.
On the flip side value may change, always.
That will be tough on the small markets who try to lock up a guy early on a long contract. Trading security for dollar upside.
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2024, 10:59:54 AM
If he's "right" about this, that means he was "wrong" when he insisted on the contract he received.
It could get ugly if he pulls a Harden.
Well his agent is Boras, so I wouldn't think Boras was "wrong". I just think things have just fundamentally changed contract wise in the last 6 years. Its personally surprising that there was no opt-out, but it is what it is.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 28, 2024, 08:26:07 AM
He also signed the contract and that's always been the point of a lot of longer deals.
Lock yourself in for insane amount of years and never have to worry again.
On the flip side value may change, always.
Yea, I mean both angles are right. Thats technically the risk of signing a long term deal. But I don't blame a top 5-10 player that's one of the faces of the league for trying to amend a contract when he could get 75-80% more in the open market. I mean, Rendon is making $10MM a year than him, lol
Wags, I'm on the players' side of these things probably 95% of the time, maybe more. But it's really hard for me to believe that a guy who insisted on a 13-year, $330M contract with no opt-out is somehow underpaid, mistreated or any other word of that kind one wants to use.
It will be interesting to see how hard Harper pushes it, if he becomes a malcontent, if ownership gives him something, etc.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 26, 2024, 05:38:53 PM
In front the Best Fans in BaseballTM.
Yeup, we indeed are THE BEST FANS IN BASEBALL.
Will see the Cardinals Sunday against the Marlins!!!
Quote from: The Lens on February 26, 2024, 09:49:32 AM
AZ is much more compact than the Grapefruit League. Much more distance in Florida.
az has 5 teams to west of phoenix and 5 teams to east. very easy to travel between any and all depending on the time of the day. 5 of the, teams- brewers, cub, angels, A's, giants, having their own complexes. the other 10 teams share a complex
Quote from: JWags85 on February 28, 2024, 08:20:39 AM
Seems crazy, but he's totally right. $25MM a year for the level of player he is currently is pretty damn undervalued. If he was a FA, he would be getting $35MM a year pretty easily.
So what? He's not a FA. Can ownership demand that players who are underperforming their guaranteed contracts give back some of the money? Harper got what he wanted. If he doesn't want to play baseball for 25M a year he can start his next career early.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2024, 07:35:40 PM
So what? He's not a FA. Can ownership demand that players who are underperforming their guaranteed contracts give back some of the money. Harper got what he wanted. If he doesn't want to play baseball for 25M a year he can start his next career early.
You're right, Lenny. Unfortunately, that's often isn't the way it works. Many athletes pout, demand a new contract, demand a trade, hold out, fake injury, etc. Anything to get their way - as I said earlier, the James Harden method. And all too often, they get rewarded for their petulance.
Situations such as these are the rare times I don't side with athletes.
It should be noted that it hasn't come to any of that with Harper - at least not yet. He has simply publicly stated that he wants an extension and more money. He hasn't made threats or anything. We'll see how it all plays out.
Quote from: MU82 on February 29, 2024, 07:43:32 PM
You're right, Lenny. Unfortunately, that's often isn't the way it works. Many athletes pout, demand a new contract, demand a trade, hold out, fake injury, etc. Anything to get their way - as I said earlier, the James Harden method. And all too often, they get rewarded for their petulance.
Situations such as these are the rare times I don't side with athletes.
It should be noted that it hasn't come to any of that with Harper - at least not yet. He has simply publicly stated that he wants an extension and more money. He hasn't made threats or anything. We'll see how it all plays out.
I'm a player's guy, too. Don't begrudge them making big money - they're the best in the world at what they do and deserve it.
BUT, when it comes to contract disputes, it's always the players wanting to renegotiate, never the owners. In those cases I'm 100% for the owners.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2024, 08:06:37 PM
I'm a player's guy, too. Don't begrudge them making big money - they're the best in the world at what they do and deserve it.
BUT, when it comes to contract disputes, it's always the players wanting to renegotiate, never the owners. In those cases I'm 100% for the owners.
Well yeah I'm assuming the owners know "I'd like to pay you less" wouldn't work.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on February 29, 2024, 08:22:35 PM
Well yeah I'm assuming the owners know "I'd like to pay you less" wouldn't work.
Why should contracts only be binding to one side?
All depends on the leverage one has...and is willing to use.
What if Harper says he's going to retire rather than play under the current contract?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2024, 08:28:21 PM
Why should contracts only be binding to one side?
Isn't the reason for restrictions so owners can't use restructuring to get out of paying players
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on February 29, 2024, 08:33:31 PM
Isn't the reason for restrictions so owners can't use restructuring to get out of paying players
WTF does this even mean?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2024, 08:06:37 PM
I'm a player's guy, too. Don't begrudge them making big money - they're the best in the world at what they do and deserve it.
BUT, when it comes to contract disputes, it's always the players wanting to renegotiate, never the owners. In those cases I'm 100% for the owners.
In the NFL, the owners make such demands all the time. But you're right about MLB.
I seem to recall an MLB player years ago that was injured for part of the season and wanted to return some of his salary because he didn't "earn" it. The team (maybe my local Angels?) said no because it wouldn't work the other way around (i.e. they wouldn't have paid more if he had a good year). Not quite sure who it was, probably because it's so rare I can vaguely remember it.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2024, 08:35:07 PM
WTF does this even mean?
Owner mad at player. Owner tell player "take less money or I'm sinking your career".
Or something like that. Chill.
Quote from: SoCalEagle on March 01, 2024, 12:15:45 AM
I seem to recall an MLB player years ago that was injured for part of the season and wanted to return some of his salary because he didn't "earn" it. The team (maybe my local Angels?) said no because it wouldn't work the other way around (i.e. they wouldn't have paid more if he had a good year). Not quite sure who it was, probably because it's so rare I can vaguely remember it.
Tsuyoshi Nishioka (Twins) I believe
Josh Donaldson retiring.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 04, 2024, 11:28:52 PM
Josh Donaldson retiring.
All the pictures on X were of him in a brewers jersey and I'm not going to lie, I completely forgot he was on the crew last season.
Cole down for 1-2 months (and that may be optimistic). Dylan Cease to the Yankees makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 13, 2024, 01:31:41 PM
Cole down for 1-2 months (and that may be optimistic). Dylan Cease to the Yankees makes a lot of sense.
Blake Snell and/or Jordan Montgomery your number is called.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 13, 2024, 01:36:24 PM
Blake Snell and/or Jordan Montgomery your number is called.
Snell would be a bargain. He'd only cost about $80M for one year.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 13, 2024, 01:36:24 PM
Blake Snell and/or Jordan Montgomery your number is called.
The Yankees are already way over the luxury tax limit. Any money spent on Snell or Montgomery will cost them an extra 10%. Cease is at 8 million with 2 years of control and a better pitcher (at least imo). I'd make that phone call first.
Quote from: Jockey on March 13, 2024, 01:50:47 PM
Snell would be a bargain. He'd only cost about $80M for one year.
Yankees have the money.
There are a few prospects the Yankees have declared off limits and they are asking for some of those prospects for Cease. Not going to happen.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 13, 2024, 01:53:17 PM
The Yankees are already way over the luxury tax limit. Any money spent on Snell or Montgomery will cost them an extra 10%. Cease is at 8 million with 2 years of control and a better pitcher (at least imo). I'd make that phone call first.
It actually is an extra 110%. So if they sign Snell for $40M, it costs them $84 M.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 13, 2024, 02:06:36 PM
Yankees have the money.
There are a few prospects the Yankees have declared off limits and they are asking for some of those prospects for Cease. Not going to happen.
Sure, they have money. But they already have a payroll north of 300 million and a rotation of Carls Rodon (extremely iffy, coming off of an injury), Nestor Cortes (see Rodon), Marcus Stroman and Clarke Schmidt. Do they want to sign Snell (who's not exactly an innings eater) and add 45 million or sign younger, more reliable Cease for 8 million this year and cheap next year too. Word is that both Texas (logical) and SD (not as much) are also pursuing Cease. I think the Yankees should seriously consider trading a couple of their heretofore untouchables for Cease.
Cease to the Padres for some prospects
Cease to the Padres.
No word yet on the return other than "multiple notable prospects," according to The Athletic.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 13, 2024, 06:27:41 PM
Cease to the Padres for some prospects
Heard their next target is Desist.
Quote from: MU82 on March 13, 2024, 07:03:43 PM
Heard their next target is Desist.
For fun, I put MLB Desist into the Google just to see if there was ever a player with that name.
The 1st link was for..., Dylan Cease.
Devin Williams out 3 months with back fractures.
From MLB Pipeline (via Yahoo Sports), here's a rating of baseball farm systems:
(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.emailimagecdnuyi.com%2Fxl7mafw9qd%2Fen_us%2Fimages%2F65f2da9f3f1be-1710414495.2585.jpg&t=1710420504&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1ca2-500649016800&sig=Qt5ZaYi8tg_1amFq31pr5A--~D)
Boy the Angels are really in a bit of a pickle eh
Oblique injuries are officially ruining my
Life
Buxton injured already. Shocking news.
Quote from: Jockey on March 18, 2024, 01:43:12 PM
Buxton injured already. Shocking news.
Where you see that?!?!
Duran is down hence my oblique comment. But Buxton played today and I haven't seen anything about him hurt
From Rotoworld:
Twins scratched Byron Buxton from Monday's game with low back tightness on the right side. There is no word yet on the severity of the injury, and the team is likely just being cautious with their oft-injured star, but it's a bit of a concern given his length injury history.
Quote from: Jockey on March 18, 2024, 01:43:12 PM
Buxton injured already. Shocking news.
Can we strip him for parts and give Tyler his oblique