1. Too many fouls, not enough 3's.
2. MU committed those fouls. Purdue hit those 3's.
3. I said in the 'Purdue game' thread that Purdue returned almost as much as MU and that they were playing with a high level of their version of connectedness. The first half showed this.
4. Purdue's guards were not sped up until the second half.
5. Put in Amadou. Let him get some fouls and learn. Edey is a force of nature at the college level. How better to learn?
6. Resilience, thy name is Marquette. No fear, no quit.
7. If MU ever starts raining 3's...oh, wait, I am repeating myself.
8. Reigning NPOY. 7'4. The refs got it right on the vast majority of the foul calls.
9. Unpopular take, but I thought Stevie should have played more.
10. If this game is played again, and MU is a half step quicker on a whole bunch of rotations early, MU wins. Today, on this court, Purdue had enough. But it was helluva fight. Alas.
unnatural carnal knowledgeing 75ft prayer was the difference
Meh, we beat them in a rematch. Change my mind
I'm still really proud of these guys but we simply could not get over the hump or hit timely shots with 5 opportunities down 5.
Quote from: NickelDimer on November 22, 2023, 06:15:11 PM
Meh, we beat them in a rematch. Change my mind
Oso has to stay on tbe floor but you're correct.
I never want to see Zach Edey again.
Quote from: IL Warrior on November 22, 2023, 06:16:08 PM
I never want to see Zach Edey again.
Oh great, you jinxed us. Now MU will have to play them again in the NCAA Championship Game
Thought they seemed out of focus in the first half. Maybe a little hung over from last night. But they fought hard and just fell short. Nothing to be ashamed of.
Beaten by an 80 ft Hail Mary.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 22, 2023, 06:14:52 PM
unnatural carnal knowledgeing 75ft prayer was the difference
Butterfly effect - can't look at it that way
Incredible game. Incredible teams. Tip your cap.
Can still be angry, the Marquette players will be. It'll just fuel them. The three-day experience of playing a great team and two tournament teams is what the doctor ordered. Love this group
Quote from: NickelDimer on November 22, 2023, 06:15:11 PM
Meh, we beat them in a rematch. Change my mind
No chance. None.
MU has nobody to match up with a 7 footer. They play 10 times and Purdue wins all 10
Awesome effort by our guys. Much respect to Purdue. They are a load to deal with.
Big time game, only upset because we could have won. Purdue was better, Jop is brutal, the guys gave it all they had and then some. I loathe Kansas and my PTSD from the Super Dome in '03 is real, so I was pretty content yesterday.
Upset because we were better than Purdue.
Defense wins games. We have plenty of offense and Shaka knows it. Fully agree with item 9.
11. Horsecrap 75 footer at half is the difference
12. Team with 7'4" guy wins.
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on November 22, 2023, 06:18:15 PM
No chance. None.
MU has nobody to match up with a 7 footer. They play 10 times and Purdue wins all 10
Damn you're a great comedian #Watchmen, you're so damn right and sooo cool. Hugs and kisses!!
Quote from: IL Warrior on November 22, 2023, 06:16:08 PM
I never want to see Zach Edey again.
Just on aesthetics alone.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 22, 2023, 06:15:53 PM
Oso has to stay on tbe floor but you're correct.
If Oso doesn't pick up the silly second foul, no way we're down 12 at half.
Yep, I agree, MU wins in a re-match. 75 foot 3 pointer is the difference, not to mention 49% from deep for the whole game.
If NLW says it, all knowers of ball know it is wrong. Ergo....
Great game. Disappointing to lose but hard to be too upset.
Oso getting that early 2nd foul was the difference as was the 75 foot prayer.
Officiating was much better in the 2nd half.
We can obviously play with anyone. Deserve to be ranked 3rd next week, IMO.
Tower #9 so wrong on so many levels... #NoLongerWarriors
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on November 22, 2023, 06:18:15 PM
No chance. None.
MU has nobody to match up with a 7 footer. They play 10 times and Purdue wins all 10
If you're gonna troll can at least somewhat clever. If MU isn't cold from 3 and Purdue isn't red hot MU wins: Marquette ddint even play well. If u want argue Purdue wins 7 out of 10 i would disagree but it's be arguable. But ur takes are just so fu kin dumb what's the point
Disagree on the officiating. Edey gets the edge whenever he wants.
However, it was Marquette's to win by hitting two (2) wide open threes.
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 06:13:03 PM
1. Too many fouls, not enough 3's.
2. MU committed those fouls. Purdue hit those 3's.
3. I said in the 'Purdue game' thread that Purdue returned almost as much as MU and that they were playing with a high level of their version of connectedness. The first half showed this.
4. Purdue's guards were not sped up until the second half.
5. Put in Amadou. Let him get some fouls and learn. Edey is a force of nature at the college level. How better to learn?
6. Resilience, thy name is Marquette. No fear, no quit.
7. If MU ever starts raining 3's...oh, wait, I am repeating myself.
8. Reigning NPOY. 7'4. The refs got it right on the vast majority of the foul calls.
9. Unpopular take, but I thought Stevie should have played more.
10. If this game is played again, and MU is a half step quicker on a whole bunch of rotations early, MU wins. Today, on this court, Purdue had enough. But it was helluva fight. Alas.
Force of nature? 7'4" unnatural freak. Alas.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 22, 2023, 06:23:25 PM
Tower #9 so wrong on so many levels... #NoLongerWarriors
See: 4 posts up.
I'm really surprised by the Jop hate. He wasn't a ball stopper. Made his only shot. Has improved to adequate defensively. And he's a huge reason we beat #1 last night.
Purdue utilizes Edey extremely well. They post him low, throw the ball high(no MU player can jump that high), then you double or triple him. He is either fouled, or makes the pass to the PU player whose MU defender came to double. PU had open looks in first half and made them, mainly threes. If you don't double/triple, he turns around and makes little hook shot. Unbearable situation. The putback at end was very lucky, but nice play.
Joplin drive turnover and Kolek airball three at end really hurt.
MU got ball with 4 seconds left, do you call a quick timeout? Surprised PU didn't foul. Guess didn't matter.
Great tournament all round.
Disappointing result. Sadly, I don't think Marquette beats Purdue in a rematch.
MU covered
MU proved that they have one of the best teams in college basketball this week. For that I'm thankful. Happy thanksgiving!
Our guys fought hard to the bitter end . The other team has a freakin giant who is coordinated . Modern day George Mikan scenario.
Looking toward a rematch in the tournament .
Team will learn a lot from watching tape of the game.
Hard fought contest, and incredibly proud of the program this week. We are going to win a majority our games this year, with a great opportunity to win the BET and regular season. This will be a learning opportunity for the team.
They can beat Purdue. They should have beat Purdue. Let's use this as fuel and take no prisoners.
Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll.
No moral victories or silver linings but....
The 75 fterrr.
Coming back from 15 down to make it a last posedsion game.
We could very well see them again in April - having a chip on our shoulder won't be a bad thing...
If this team could start hitting 3s..
The lucky shot won it for them
Quote from: CountryRoads on November 22, 2023, 06:29:09 PM
MU proved that they have one of the best teams in college basketball this week. For that I'm thankful. Happy thanksgiving!
100%
Going to be a great year
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 06:13:03 PM
1. Too many fouls, not enough 3's.
2. MU committed those fouls. Purdue hit those 3's.
3. I said in the 'Purdue game' thread that Purdue returned almost as much as MU and that they were playing with a high level of their version of connectedness. The first half showed this.
4. Purdue's guards were not sped up until the second half.
5. Put in Amadou. Let him get some fouls and learn. Edey is a force of nature at the college level. How better to learn?
6. Resilience, thy name is Marquette. No fear, no quit.
7. If MU ever starts raining 3's...oh, wait, I am repeating myself.
8. Reigning NPOY. 7'4. The refs got it right on the vast majority of the foul calls.
9. Unpopular take, but I thought Stevie should have played more.
10. If this game is played again, and MU is a half step quicker on a whole bunch of rotations early, MU wins. Today, on this court, Purdue had enough. But it was helluva fight. Alas.
Agree to disagree on #5. A seasoned senior, All Amercian and NPOY winner against a freshman with no experience, would not have ended well.
Quote from: IrwinFletcher on November 22, 2023, 06:32:23 PM
Agree to disagree on #5. A seasoned senior, All Amercian and NPOY winner against a freshman with no experience, would not have ended well.
What if the freshman had a chair?
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on November 22, 2023, 06:18:15 PM
No chance. None.
MU has nobody to match up with a 7 footer. They play 10 times and Purdue wins all 10
How do you think they'll fare against Texas' new big Kevin Munchon?
Quote from: 1SE on November 22, 2023, 06:31:08 PM
No moral victories or silver linings but....
The 75 fterrr.
Coming back from 15 down to make it a last posedsion game.
We could very well see them again in April - having a chip on our shoulder won't be a bad thing...
If this team could start hitting 3s..
I don't think we'll match up against Purdue in the first round
Quote from: IrwinFletcher on November 22, 2023, 06:32:23 PM
Agree to disagree on #5. A seasoned senior, All Amercian and NPOY winner against a freshman with no experience, would not have ended well.
But with Gold with 3 fouls and Oso with 2, let Amadou have the last 90 seconds of the first half.
Quote from: 1SE on November 22, 2023, 06:31:08 PM
No moral victories or silver linings but....
The 75 fterrr.
Coming back from 15 down to make it a last posedsion game.
We could very well see them again in April - having a chip on our shoulder won't be a bad thing...
If this team could start hitting 3s..
Except for this game all the teams were shooting poorly from 3 in Maui.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 22, 2023, 06:36:17 PM
Except for this game all the teams were shooting poorly from 3 in Maui.
Background issue
Scoopers
I am frickin exhausted. Disappointing by the outcome, but having this feeling in November shows to me where the program is nationally. Have enjoyed communicating with a lot of old friends this week and talking MU ball.
I do not think I have ever been invested in November games or more disappointed with a loss. In the season prediction thread I said I believed MU would be ranked #1 for multiple weeks this season and March will work for me.
Quote from: Goose on November 22, 2023, 06:37:59 PM
Scoopers
I am frickin exhausted. Disappointing by the outcome, but having this feeling in November shows to me where the program is nationally. Have enjoyed communicating with a lot of old friends this week and talking MU ball.
I do not think I have ever been invested in November games or more disappointed with a loss. In the season prediction thread I said I believed MU would be ranked #1 for multiple weeks this season and March will work for me.
Goose it took a crazy half time shot to beat MU, Nuff' Said
Quote from: Goose on November 22, 2023, 06:37:59 PM
Scoopers
I am frickin exhausted. Disappointing by the outcome, but having this feeling in November shows to me where the program is nationally. Have enjoyed communicating with a lot of old friends this week and talking MU ball.
I do not think I have ever been invested in November games or more disappointed with a loss. In the season prediction thread I said I believed MU would be ranked #1 for multiple weeks this season and March will work for me.
As always - goose remains the steadying voice on this board. Like a faint light from the distance while you're lost at sea.
1. Oso's 2nd foul was dumb. Trying to hem in a guard 40' from the hoop.
2. The prayer at the half that everyone bemoans - totally unguarded, no defense at all.
3. Six fouls in five minutes - needless.
So many things tonight to piss you off. Breakaways screwed up, bunnies missed.
They shot well from 3 because of the fixation on Edey. It's highly unlikely they
could shoot that well again.
But we almost got this one. There was no quit at all (as opposed to Kansas last night).
Not see Edey again? I wouldn't mind - we can beat that team, and I hope we get the chance.
Nobody guards 75 feet away.
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 06:45:23 PM
Nobody guards 75 feet away.
Agree. No one wants a 75 ft foul and three shots. Luck was not with Marquette today.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on November 22, 2023, 06:43:50 PM
2. The prayer at the half that everyone bemoans - totally unguarded, no defense at all.
You're joking right? The worst case scenario there is someone gets too close and the refs call a foul.
You don't guard a shooter from 3/4 court, ever.
Quote from: Goose on November 22, 2023, 06:37:59 PM
Scoopers
I am frickin exhausted. Disappointing by the outcome, but having this feeling in November shows to me where the program is nationally. Have enjoyed communicating with a lot of old friends this week and talking MU ball.
I do not think I have ever been invested in November games or more disappointed with a loss. In the season prediction thread I said I believed MU would be ranked #1 for multiple weeks this season and March will work for me.
You mentioned you watched the game at your sisters. Does she still have a TV?
Lose now, win in March.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 22, 2023, 06:24:55 PM
I'm really surprised by the Jop hate. He wasn't a ball stopper. Made his only shot. Has improved to adequate defensively. And he's a huge reason we beat #1 last night.
He's a spot shooter who can back people down at times. He really can't create his own offense. He's a slightly better version of what he's always been.
He'll of a Maui tourney. Annoyed by whistle but whatever.
Planes Trains and Automobiles at Music Box will ease any sorrow.
1.Edey is an unstoppable force of nature at this level.
2.Smith and Loyer made some incredible shots on drives to the basket.
3.Purdue shot better than they know how from 3, including a 70 footer and a corner shot that came right as the shot clock expired.
4.Chase Ross (who I LOVE as a player) really struggled tonight.
5.We missed a ton of open 3s.
Just about everything that could go wrong did, yet there we were, in it to the end. I love this team, and I'm more bullish on them than I was before this tournament.
I blame DW3 for bailing on MU today.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 22, 2023, 06:59:25 PM
He's a spot shooter who can back people down at times. He really can't create his own offense. He's a slightly better version of what he's always been.
Agree with all of this but stand by my comment. He's a valuable part of a great team and they'd be worse without him.
The difference was Oso sitting for much of the first half due to a stupid foul 30' from the basket....not the 3/4 length shot.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 22, 2023, 07:09:44 PM
Agree with all of this but stand by my comment. He's a valuable part of a great team and they'd be worse without him.
I just think people were expecting a bigger jump.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 22, 2023, 07:13:29 PM
The difference was Oso sitting for much of the first half due to a stupid foil 30' from the basket....not the 3/4 length shot.
Exactly
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 22, 2023, 07:13:29 PM
The difference was Oso sitting for much of the first half due to a stupid foul 30' from the basket....not the 3/4 length shot.
That and not securing the ball a few times. This one hurts, but in total, a great showing in Hawaii. This team is living up to the high expectations.
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 06:45:23 PM
Nobody guards 75 feet away.
Well you could so yo can foul the shooter and give him 3 free throws. Yes there is a good reason not to guard a 70 foot shot.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 22, 2023, 07:13:29 PM
The difference was Oso sitting for much of the first half due to a stupid foul 30' from the basket....not the 3/4 length shot.
If the shot doesn't go in Purdue don't win by 3 points, but yes Oso's dumb foul hurt.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 22, 2023, 07:27:30 PM
If the shot doesn't go in Purdue don't win by 3 points, but yes Oso's dumb foul hurt.
You can't make the assumption that everything would have played out the same in the second half. That's not how it works.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 22, 2023, 07:27:30 PM
If the shot doesn't go in Purdue don't win by 3 points, but yes Oso's dumb foul hurt.
The dumb foul was the key because it totally changed the trajectory of the first half. If he doesn't sit for an extended period, we're not down 12 at half.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 22, 2023, 07:29:52 PM
You can't make the assumption that everything would have played out the same in the second half. That's not how it works.
;D Nothing is how it works....
The guys did a great job of coming back in the second half - just could not quite get over the last hump. Fatigue probably played a part in that. (Tyler looked exhausted in second half.) But, they played a great tournament and we should all be very proud of them.
Oso hitting that floater:push shot with consistency is a huge weapon for MU.
Tough loss. But this will be a great season. The best is yet to come.
Not losing a nanosecond of sleep. Two really good teams in a one possession game on a neutral floor in November.
As an aside, I am really proud of this thread title.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 22, 2023, 07:13:29 PM
The difference was Oso sitting for much of the first half due to a stupid foul 30' from the basket....not the 3/4 length shot.
I can't believe this thread went this far before somebody made this observation.
The Oso foul hurt us a lot more than a fluke shot. Heck, them going off from 3 way better than they have and way better than they will in most games had more to do with the outcome than that one 3.
And even despite all of that - Oso's foul, them shooting lights out in the first half and them hitting the fluke 3 - we STILL had numerous chances in the second half, literally right up until the end of the game.
I'm disappointed because that was a very winnable game, but I'm not even a little discouraged. We already beat two teams with 7-foot centers in the tournament, and we battled like hell against a future #1 seed despite facing a ton of adversity (some self-inflicted) all game. Marquette is no less a championship contender right now.
Saying we lost because of that shot ... I mean, why didn't we lose because of any other 3-pointers they made ... or any of the THREE wide-open 3s Gold missed ... or Kolek's missed 3 near the end ... or any of the 5-6 rebounds that went right through our players' hands ... or a bazillion other plays?
I'd have thought "we lost because of a 75-footer" was in teal if so many folks hadn't kept saying it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 22, 2023, 07:13:30 PM
I just think people were expecting a bigger jump.
I agree that many were though I couldn't figure out why. Jop's ceiling is limited by a lack of athleticism. And he's small for his position. He already was a borderline elite shooter, so I didn't see a big jump there.
Sean has elite speed and quickness. Harnessing it could lead to a major leap. Chase has elite all around athleticism, so plenty of room to improve. Ben has size AND skill, so as the game slows down for him the possible upsize is great. Jop (imo) can only improve on the margins - and it's not his fault.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 22, 2023, 07:48:31 PM
I agree that many were though I couldn't figure out why. Jop's ceiling is limited by a lack of athleticism. And he's small for his position. He already was a borderline elite shooter, so I didn't see a big jump there.
Sean has elite speed and quickness. Harnessing it could lead to a major leap. Chase has elite all around athleticism, so plenty of room to improve. Ben has size AND skill, so as the game slows down for him the possible upsize is great. Jop (imo) can only improve on the margins - and it's not his fault.
On the money as usual Lenny.
Edey's only talent is being tall. That's all.
Great thing is that Purdue and MU will both be #1 seeds and Purdue will lose in the first round so we won't play them again.
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 06:13:03 PM
5. Put in Amadou. Let him get some fouls and learn. Edey is a force of nature at the college level. How better to learn?
Definitely not by throwing him to the wolves in a tight game against a top 2 team in the country. Shaka played the foul trouble shuffle as well as you can. Al can learn by defending a top 5 big CBB in practice every day and taking notes on the bench in games. He's not ready or he'd play.
The last shot ...
1. Not surprised Shaka refrained from calling time immediately but I thought he might after a couple seconds when it didn't look like we had anything going.
2. Kam had Jop open for 3 on the left wing. Either he didn't see Jop or he ignored Jop. Hopefully the former. And maybe the fact that Jop was open - literally right in front of Shaka - was why Shaka didn't call time.
3. Bilas wondered if Painter might foul up 3 but it would have been weird to do so once we didn't have big-time speed going toward half-court. Good decision by Painter.
Lenny
I watched the game with my ball rabbi and he said to say hi to you. The following were his observations:
1. Kolek is the second best guard ever, behind Butch Lee. Wade is out of the discussion because he is best player ever.
2. Beyond bullish on Ben Gold. Loves how he can catch a pass and ready to shoot, much like Novak in that regard.
3. Loves Sean Jones and his pressure on defense.
4. Joplin is a very good role player, strictly based off of being limited athletically.
5. Said the last three days he felt like it was March Madness.
6. Could not be higher on this team or program as a whole.
My take, this team is really, really good and I am more bullish than I was a week ago and I was very bullish.
What's being missed is that Marquette outscored Purdue 43 to 32 in the second half. That's a heck of an effort
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 22, 2023, 06:17:17 PM
Incredible game. Incredible teams. Tip your cap.
Can still be angry, the Marquette players will be. It'll just fuel them. The three-day experience of playing a great team and two tournament teams is what the doctor ordered. Love this group
...looking fwd to seeing that anger release on RED in about 10 days!!
It stinks losing, but we played really well. Purdue is the most unique team in the country and we'll never play a team with the same profile again unless we meet in the tournament.
We showed versatility tongiht and a ton of fight. What other team has a 7'5 freak of nature talent center with a supporting cast that can't miss from behind the arc ?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 22, 2023, 07:48:31 PM
I agree that many were though I couldn't figure out why. Jop's ceiling is limited by a lack of athleticism. And he's small for his position. He already was a borderline elite shooter, so I didn't see a big jump there.
Sean has elite speed and quickness. Harnessing it could lead to a major leap. Chase has elite all around athleticism, so plenty of room to improve. Ben has size AND skill, so as the game slows down for him the possible upsize is great. Jop (imo) can only improve on the margins - and it's not his fault.
Agreed. Except I don't think he's a borderline elite shooter.
Jop might be better as a 6th man, or, perhaps the talent has passed him up.
He needs to learn that when he gets run off the 3pt line, the possession is over for him and it's immediately time to pass the ball. These aimless drives to the middle of the lane followed by a quintuple pivot and a turnover are hurting the team.
If Shaka is convinced he's a starter, get him a 3 in one of the first 3 possessions. If he makes it he stays in. If he misses, sub out. Continue this until he has either 30 points or splinters.
Chase got sped up. I suspect he'll learn quickly.
I liked Ben on Eady. He did enough to allow the help to come and create turnovers.
I liked the 2nd half adjustments.
MU needs more plays that get Kam open 3's. MU traded 3 for 2 too often today.
Stevie ended up guarding Eady on the switch multiple times. I cannot recall Eady scoring on him. Maybe I missed one or two, but Stevie did well.
Sultan
Do you think he is less than borderline? If so, I'm in agreement.
Jop should be left behind in Maui, period.
I was a little surprised JTY wasn't in the game in the closing stretch. I get he missed that wide open corner three but he puts pressure on the defense with his initial bbs (blow by speed). He also is pestiferous defensively. My main point is having him on the floor in the last few offensive possessions could have helped.
Purdue outplayed us and deserved to win but that missed foul on Edey, on the Kam drive at about 6 mins. really bothers me.
Muggsy
I am not sure they outplayed MU, but they deserved to win. Led the last approx 30 minutes and did what they needed to do to get the W. Time to regroup and close out the NC with no additional blemishes on the record.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 22, 2023, 08:32:04 PM
Jop should be left behind in Maui, period.
Pull his scholarship and make his parents move to Illinois
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 22, 2023, 08:32:29 PM
I was a little surprised JTY wasn't in the game in the closing stretch. I get he missed that wide open corner three but he puts pressure on the defense with his initial bbs (blow by speed). He also is pestiferous defensively. My main point is having him on the floor in the last few offensive possessions could have helped.
During one of the late time-outs, I wondered if Shaka might put in Sean to do just what you say here.
But I trust Shaka's decisions; he has earned that trust.
Quote from: Goose on November 22, 2023, 08:30:50 PM
Sultan
Do you think he is less than borderline? If so, I'm in agreement.
Yes. He's above average but that's about it.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 22, 2023, 08:39:42 PM
Pull his scholarship and make his parents move to Illinois
Seems reasonable.
Sultan
Agreed.
Quote from: MU82 on November 22, 2023, 08:41:26 PM
During one of the late time-outs, I wondered if Shaka might put in Sean to do just what you say here.
But I trust Shaka's decisions; he has earned that trust.
I read in the game thread Shaka needs an aircraft carrier and shooters. Until he does that, he shouldn't earn anyone's trust imo
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 22, 2023, 08:34:11 PM
Purdue outplayed us and deserved to win but that missed foul on Edey, on the Kam drive at about 6 mins. really bothers me.
We outscored them in the second half despite poor shooting
Quote from: Goose on November 22, 2023, 08:04:59 PM
Lenny
I watched the game with my ball rabbi and he said to say hi to you. The following were his observations:
1. Kolek is the second best guard ever, behind Butch Lee. Wade is out of the discussion because he is best player ever.
2. Beyond bullish on Ben Gold. Loves how he can catch a pass and ready to shoot, much like Novak in that regard.
3. Loves Sean Jones and his pressure on defense.
4. Joplin is a very good role player, strictly based off of being limited athletically.
5. Said the last three days he felt like it was March Madness.
6. Could not be higher on this team or program as a whole.
My take, this team is really, really good and I am more bullish than I was a week ago and I was very bullish.
Goose
Love hearing such positivity from the guy who was probably Al's most cerebral Captain. Agree on all of his points - please give him my best.
This team fears no other and plays like it. Any doubts that the sky's the limit were answered over the last week. I don't know (or frankly care) if our regular season record will be as good as last year - this is a better team that will be much more dangerous in March.
With regards to Jop he battled all game defensively. That said if he's going to be on the floor he can't take one shot in like 20 mins. He's a scorer, find a way to get him catch and shoots or a few back doors. I get it, he's not comfortable trying to score off the bounce and that's not his game. However, if he's on the floor find a way to get him involved in the offense.
Purdue did a nice job keeping Joplin and Kam from getting open looks. It was a major part of their game plan, and they executed it well.
Quote from: Goose on November 22, 2023, 08:04:59 PM
Lenny
I watched the game with my ball rabbi and he said to say hi to you. The following were his observations:
1. Kolek is the second best guard ever, behind Butch Lee. Wade is out of the discussion because he is best player ever.
2. Beyond bullish on Ben Gold. Loves how he can catch a pass and ready to shoot, much like Novak in that regard.
3. Loves Sean Jones and his pressure on defense.
4. Joplin is a very good role player, strictly based off of being limited athletically.
5. Said the last three days he felt like it was March Madness.
6. Could not be higher on this team or program as a whole.
My take, this team is really, really good and I am more bullish than I was a week ago and I was very bullish.
Love Gold, too, but continue to be shocked he doesn't hit his 3s at a much better clip. So many good looks that look good out of his hand but just don't go down, the big two last night aside. His form is too good for them not to start falling more consistently. Would make him such a weapon.
I'm still upset but will give Purdue credit. I believe strongly we were in position to usurp the game.
Quote from: StillWarriors on November 22, 2023, 08:58:50 PM
Love Gold, too, but continue to be shocked he doesn't hit his 3s at a much better clip. So many good looks that look good out of his hand but just don't go down, the big two last night aside. His form is too good for them not to start falling more consistently. Would make him such a weapon.
Yes Ben hitting 3s more consistently would help in many ways. Edey had to come out to challenge him. They always say he drains them in practice. Maybe he will get there.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 22, 2023, 08:51:02 PM
With regards to Jop he battled all game defensively. That said if he's going to be on the floor he can't take one shot in like 20 mins. He's a scorer, find a way to get him catch and shoots or a few back doors. I get it, he's not comfortable trying to score off the bounce and that's not his game. However, if he's on the floor find a way to get him involved in the offense.
With Ben and Oso in early and often foul trouble (along with Kam) Jop was asked to take on some heavy lifting. A little surprised by the comments. David was playing the role the situation and coaches dictated.
As to shot selection, Marquette's plan was to drive Edey --continuously--to wear him out and to get into foul trouble. And to leave the perimeter shooters to fate. Problem was, both Edey and the shooters beat MU just like at West Lafayette. MU only took 17 threes with 2 late chucks.
The game plan worked to wear Purdue down but MU needed another minute. Not a fan of the strategy I must say with Kam shooting just two threes and Jop just 1. Purdue had 15 more points on treys. Yikes
We have not gotten the 3-Ball going with any consistency in our 4 games vs quality opponents. And we still won 3/4. I'm waiting for the floodgates to open.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 22, 2023, 09:08:32 PM
We have not gotten the 3-Ball going with any consistency in our 4 games vs quality opponents. And we still won 3/4. I'm waiting for the floodgates to open.
Small sample size alert, but Marquette has the 38th best effective fg% right now while being slightly above average as a 3pt team. The offense will be and is fine and will only get better
We're seeing a bit of why losing out on Kon stung. Once Kam and TK are gone who can you rely on to hit threes consistently?
Ben's shot looks good but he just doesn't make enough of them. Sean and Stevie hitting them is found money.
When it comes to Jop, he is what he is. And that should be coming off the bench.
I love Jop and think he's talented enough to start for this team, but its going to be a challenge for Shaka to scheme for him given the construction of the roster. Playing at this pace doesn't benefit his game unless he's making a living on catch and shoot threes. I'd also like to see how often he and Gold play together - I don't think its much and I don't think they can. Neither of them is able to move the ball fast enough and it will bog the offense down. There will be games like UCLA where for one reason or another MU's flow stagnates and those are the games that Jop's strength and ability to score will be huge. But if MU is having its way and dictating pace and flow, Ross's minutes are going to primarily eat into Jop's.
Quote from: MUBurrow on November 22, 2023, 09:32:40 PM
I love Jop and think he's talented enough to start for this team, but its going to be a challenge for Shaka to scheme for him given the construction of the roster. Playing at this pace doesn't benefit his game unless he's making a living on catch and shoot threes. I'd also like to see how often he and Gold play together - I don't think its much and I don't think they can. Neither of them is able to move the ball fast enough and it will bog the offense down. There will be games like UCLA where for one reason or another MU's flow stagnates and those are the games that Jop's strength and ability to score will be huge. But if MU is having its way and dictating pace and flow, Ross's minutes are going to primarily eat into Jop's.
He hasn't figured out his role yet. I think you have to get Jop shots but also understand where to get them and who's defending.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 22, 2023, 07:13:29 PM
The difference was Oso sitting for much of the first half due to a stupid foul 30' from the basket....not the 3/4 length shot.
THIS!!
Played half of game with one hand tied behind our back
Unfortunately we tied it there ourselves
Incredible effort to be there at the end!!
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 06:13:03 PM
1. Too many fouls, not enough 3's.
2. MU committed those fouls. Purdue hit those 3's.
3. I said in the 'Purdue game' thread that Purdue returned almost as much as MU and that they were playing with a high level of their version of connectedness. The first half showed this.
4. Purdue's guards were not sped up until the second half.
5. Put in Amadou. Let him get some fouls and learn. Edey is a force of nature at the college level. How better to learn?
6. Resilience, thy name is Marquette. No fear, no quit.
7. If MU ever starts raining 3's...oh, wait, I am repeating myself.
8. Reigning NPOY. 7'4. The refs got it right on the vast majority of the foul calls.
9. Unpopular take, but I thought Stevie should have played more.
10. If this game is played again, and MU is a half step quicker on a whole bunch of rotations early, MU wins. Today, on this court, Purdue had enough. But it was helluva fight. Alas.
#2 - The best summation using the least characters.
#3 - PU a very good basketball team. Edey a legitimate load. A lot of sour grapes on the Board over him. He's both tall and talented. FT stroke is beautiful for a big man. Good surrounding talent around him that have as much familiarity playing together as MU.
#5 - I thought this also for the last 90 seconds as Tower suggested.
#10 - A great basketball game. Very high on this team. They play hard.
#11 - Would like to have seen a TO at the end before Tyler shot.
#12 - Agree that second Oso foul was a very large factor in the outcome.
#12 is all that I've been thinking about. He cannot pick up that 2nd foul. I feel like we were the better team with Oso on the floor.
Without that big run in the first half we walk away with a W. Oso's second foul put us in a hole we almost climbed out of.
No doubt the 2nd Oso foul hurt the most. Silly foul and it limited what they could on both sides of the court for over ten minutes.
In reflecting back on the game, far more positives than negatives and feel the team had an outstanding week. This is a crazy long season, especially with the lofty ranking and expectations.
As a fan, I feel like every game is an elimination game at the moment and I need to remember those do not happen for another four months. No doubt, this fan needs to pace himself or will be completely worn out by February.
Quote from: Goose on November 23, 2023, 07:46:15 AM
In reflecting back on the game, far more positives than negatives and feel the team had an outstanding week. This is a crazy long season, especially with the lofty ranking and expectations.
As a fan, I feel like every game is an elimination game at the moment and I need to remember those do not happen for another four months. No doubt, this fan needs to pace himself or will be completely worn out by February.
I'm with ya. These felt like NCAA Tournament games. More battles to come. UW is figuring it out and that will be a fight as well. Then Texas at a sold out Fiserv.
There's nothing this team will see in Big East play that they haven't faced. Purdue will be tremendous prep for Creighton and UConn, with a giant in the middle and shooters zipping around him.
You know what though? I can't wait until Tuesday. I don't care who they're playing, I'm just happy to be in the building watching these dudes play.
fan12
I agree across the board. I just need to pace my energy because this week wore me down. When I got home after the game yesterday I felt like I had played three days in a row.
It felt like the Big East tourney last year. One beastly opponent after the next. A titanic struggle.
This time, an unfortunate result.
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 06:13:03 PM
1. Too many fouls, not enough 3's.
2. MU committed those fouls. Purdue hit those 3's.
3. I said in the 'Purdue game' thread that Purdue returned almost as much as MU and that they were playing with a high level of their version of connectedness. The first half showed this.
4. Purdue's guards were not sped up until the second half.
5. Put in Amadou. Let him get some fouls and learn. Edey is a force of nature at the college level. How better to learn?
6. Resilience, thy name is Marquette. No fear, no quit.
7. If MU ever starts raining 3's...oh, wait, I am repeating myself.
8. Reigning NPOY. 7'4. The refs got it right on the vast majority of the foul calls.
9. Unpopular take, but I thought Stevie should have played more.
10. If this game is played again, and MU is a half step quicker on a whole bunch of rotations early, MU wins. Today, on this court, Purdue had enough. But it was helluva fight. Alas.
11. The only difference in the final score was a 3/4 court length Hail Mary at the end of the first half.
Quote from: Goose on November 23, 2023, 07:46:15 AM
As a fan, I feel like every game is an elimination game at the moment and I need to remember those do not happen for another four months. No doubt, this fan needs to pace himself or will be completely worn out by February.
Totally agree with that sentiment, Goose. These last few days were exhausting!
One of my MU text chains includes my roommate senior year, who also was the best man at our wedding. Great guy, entire family went to Marquette, but when we were there he was only a casual hoops fan and still isn't a rabid fan like the rest of us in the chain.
But he has picked up his fandom since Shaka arrived, especially last season and this. And here's what his comment was at the end of the game: "I need to lie down."
Cracked me up. Then one of our other buddies responded: "I hope I get a defibrillator for Christmas."
Meanwhile, when we're watching MU play, I think my wife actually yells more (and louder) at the TV now than I do!
So Scoopers aren't the only ones going wacky over Shaka's warriors. It's already been a fun season, and it's only gonna get more intense when conference play starts.
It
is exhausting ... but it beats the eff out of the alternative!
In Hawaii, Edey was 18 for 20 within 4.5 feet, and 8 for 25 beyond it. Not a surprise. He's very good at what he does, against good teams too.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 22, 2023, 09:08:32 PM
We have not gotten the 3-Ball going with any consistency in our 4 games vs quality opponents. And we still won 3/4. I'm waiting for the floodgates to open.
Agree. It was a loss. But as good as Purdue shot from 3 and as bad as Marquette shot from 3 this game gives me hope!
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on November 23, 2023, 01:06:03 PM
Agree. It was a loss. But as good as Purdue shot from 3 and as bad as Marquette shot from 3 this game gives me hope!
And really, the offense Marquette is running game them plenty of open look shots - not like we didn't get the looks. That is a success. We missed a lot of the, but we got the looks which despite the opponent Marquette did that. The shots will fall. Our shooters are good
The Maui hangover will probably hit at least one team- I'm glad we have a week off and a cupcake
From the JS, Kolek second-guesses himself on taking a 3 with about 10 seconds left:
"The first shot, for myself, I'd like to get to the basket. There's enough time, maybe 15 seconds left, you can get a layup on that.
"Then go down and play. They missed free throws. They missed both of them... so you go down and hit a layup, those free throws are hard to make. There's a lot of pressure on them. It's not the same as with 18 minutes left on the game clock.
"So get in the paint, then it's a one-point game. They miss a free throw. Two threes ... maybe those looks we wanted. So kind of getting my team organized at the end of the game is something I'll definitely look back on in the film session."
Hero ball.
I have no problem at all Kolek taking the three there. One of the best players in the country going for the tie instead of the safer play, I'll take my chances with him going for it any day. It missed, that's basketball. He had enough of an opening that it was a pretty good look. Move on. That's not why they lost.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 24, 2023, 07:54:15 AM
Why is that teal?
Because I don't believe it. I want first team all Americans with the ball in their hands and taking shots at crunch time. I did 5 years ago and I do now.
I'm glad to hear him say that, though. Because it means in even more crucial games, he'll be thinking about his decision making. I wanted Maui, but despite the missed opportunity, it only gave me more encouragement about our ability to win games in March and April.
Very difficult to beat any team that shoots 10 of 21 for 3pt shots. In previous 2 games Purdue only made 4 3pt shots each game, shooting 25%. This was a unicorn, including the shot at the end of the half. And MU almost won! In my opinion, Edey was not the difference, the 3s were.
Quote from: LongtimeFan on November 24, 2023, 09:30:15 AM
Very difficult to beat any team that shoots 10 of 21 for 3pt shots. In previous 2 games Purdue only made 4 3pt shots each game, shooting 25%. This was a unicorn, including the shot at the end of the half. And MU almost won! In my opinion, Eddy was not the difference, the 3s were.
Agreed
Quote from: 1SE on November 24, 2023, 12:51:33 AM
The Maui hangover will probably hit at least one team- I'm glad we have a week off and a cupcake
Very smart scheduling, no pun intended.
Helluva game between two good teams.
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 07:43:08 PM
As an aside, I am really proud of this thread title.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/30bd5bab02a27cbd52cdc9045fea5c51/tenor.gif?itemid=13737129)
;D
Quote from: LongtimeFan on November 24, 2023, 09:30:15 AM
Very difficult to beat any team that shoots 10 of 21 for 3pt shots. In previous 2 games Purdue only made 4 3pt shots each game, shooting 25%. This was a unicorn, including the shot at the end of the half. And MU almost won! In my opinion, Edey was not the difference, the 3s were.
It was Edey, it was the first half shooting, it was Oso's second foul, a ton of little things went against us and led to the loss. But if that's what it takes for us to lose by one possession, I'll take it. This team can still make a deep March run and there are a lot of wins left in this season.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 24, 2023, 09:43:42 AM
It was Edey, it was the first half shooting, it was Oso's second foul, a ton of little things went against us and led to the loss. But if that's what it takes for us to lose by one possession, I'll take it. This team can still make a deep March run and there are a lot of wins left in this season.
Purdue got pretty much every break in the game and still only won by three. That tells you everything you need to know about this team's ceiling.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 24, 2023, 09:43:42 AM
It was Edey, it was the first half shooting, it was Oso's second foul, a ton of little things went against us and led to the loss. But if that's what it takes for us to lose by one possession, I'll take it. This team can still make a deep March run and there are a lot of wins left in this season.
Yessir!
Quote from: LongtimeFan on November 24, 2023, 09:30:15 AM
Very difficult to beat any team that shoots 10 of 21 for 3pt shots. In previous 2 games Purdue only made 4 3pt shots each game, shooting 25%. This was a unicorn, including the shot at the end of the half. And MU almost won! In my opinion, Edey was not the difference, the 3s were.
Yep. Edey is gonna eat. And the way he gets his can be demoralizing because even if Marquette does a great job on him, this squad doesn't have the personnel to keep him from getting 2-3 great second chance opportunities per half. So you have to shrug your shoulders on those and move on. Even on the last put back, its not like Oso did anything wrong - Edey even said as much in his postgame. Those are just going to happen when you give up 6 in and 60 lbs to a guy with decent hands.
For anyone who believes that a Marquette rematch with Purdue would result in Marquette losing to Purdue/Edey....
Please explain how 16 seed Fairleigh Dickinson in in 2023 and St. Peters in 2022 took down Purdue in the Big Dance.
I am not knocking Edey-he's phenomenal-but Purdue and Edey are not invincible. If we meet again, relax. The odds of them hitting so many 3s, are very slim. Marquette wins a rematch.
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2023, 06:35:53 PM
But with Gold with 3 fouls and Oso with 2, let Amadou have the last 90 seconds of the first half.
I was texting the same to my buddy. Why not get Al in there. In fact, someone commented Purdue knows they can throw the entry pass in high because no one can jump that high. There you go, who better than Al to try?
Quote from: romey on November 24, 2023, 07:20:12 PM
I was texting the same to my buddy. Why not get Al in there. In fact, someone commented Purdue knows they can throw the entry pass in high because no one can jump that high. There you go, who better than Al to try?
IMO Al is going to make an impact defensively at some point this season on a tall wing that is hard for others on this team to guard. He will not be in there for offense when he does come in. Shaka most like needs to see some more consistency on D in practice first. His athleticism and length could be an answer to a difficult offensive matchup (long athletic wing) in a couple of games this year. At least for a couple 5 minute stretches if something else isn't working.