MUScoop

Great win for the boys last night. But which non-con game is most important to win? Aside from flippant answers ("the next one", "all of them") I think there are strong arguments to be made for any number of the games. Last night was a first in 20 years win. Beating UCLA basically ensures we have one of the strongest non-con schedules around. Win it all in Maui and we're #1 and the team to beat for the rest of the year. Beating the rodents and ND sucks are always highlights. Shaka might want UT more than any of them.

Ucla no question.

It's UCLA and there's no real debate. You can either go to Maui, win, and get three quality games, or you can go lose, get a D2 game that is all downside, and hope to get one good opponent in the third game.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 15, 2023, 05:31:57 AM
It's UCLA and there's no real debate. You can either go to Maui, win, and get three quality games, or you can go lose, get a D2 game that is all downside, and hope to get one good opponent in the third game.

Thanks for saving me from having to type all that.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 15, 2023, 05:31:57 AM
It's UCLA and there's no real debate. You can either go to Maui, win, and get three quality games, or you can go lose, get a D2 game that is all downside, and hope to get one good opponent in the third game.

From a schedule standpoint, sure. But one could argue that's COLE thinking "we need a strong schedule to make our tournament case." We don't need to make a tournament case. We need to make our 1 seed case - our one seed case is best served by winning it all in Maui.

I get that we don't get to game 3 if we don't win games 1 and 2, but, by that same logic, the most important game in the tournament will be our first round game. If (when) we make the Maui Final - one could easily argue that's the most important non-con game. 

This is a year for hardware, not moral victories.

The Maui tournament is extremely important for MU to be in position to get a 1 or 2 seed in the spring. UCLA is big to get us in position for bigger games next week. IMO, next week is the biggest week of MU basketball in my lifetime, aside from NCAA runs. National stage, high ranking and tough competition is what we have waited a long time to experience. One game at time and let's see what happens.

Quote from: 1SE on November 15, 2023, 06:03:33 AM
From a schedule standpoint, sure. But one could argue that's COLE thinking "we need a strong schedule to make our tournament case." We don't need to make a tournament case. We need to make our 1 seed case - our one seed case is best served by winning it all in Maui.

I get that we don't get to game 3 if we don't win games 1 and 2, but, by that same logic, the most important game in the tournament will be our first round game. If (when) we make the Maui Final - one could easily argue that's the most important non-con game. 

This is a year for hardware, not moral victories.

Our 1-seed case is certainly bolstered by winning Maui, but I think it's very realistic to think that a team that goes 1-2 in Maui may end up a 1-seed. If Marquette wins the Big East, Kansas the Big 12, Purdue the Big 10, and Tennessee the SEC are those not the most likely 1-seeds? That would be the four best teams from what should be the four best conferences. If Maui goes to plan, I feel confident saying the quality of the Final Four on the island will be better than the quality of the Final Four in Arizona.

Gotta beat UCLA in order to play Rock Chalk.

I think the UCLA game is enormous for all of the reasons mentioned here.  That said the Texas game is massive as well.  It will set the tone for DOMINATING and PROTECTING our home floor for the entire season.  I absolutely love our non-c schedule.  Dickinson is a concern but a solvable problem.  I would try to get under his skin a bit if we face them.   

Quote from: We R Final Four on November 15, 2023, 06:42:47 AM
Gotta beat UCLA in order to play Rock Chalk.

This.  I want Kansas and then Purdue and a number one ranking.

Quote from: 1SE on November 15, 2023, 06:03:33 AM
From a schedule standpoint, sure. But one could argue that's COLE thinking "we need a strong schedule to make our tournament case." We don't need to make a tournament case. We need to make our 1 seed case - our one seed case is best served by winning it all in Maui.

I get that we don't get to game 3 if we don't win games 1 and 2, but, by that same logic, the most important game in the tournament will be our first round game. If (when) we make the Maui Final - one could easily argue that's the most important non-con game. 

This is a year for hardware, not moral victories.

It has nothing to do with moral victories.  Winning the first game gets you a date with Kansas. Losing it gets you a date with Chaminade. You want to test yourself against the best - not play a minor league team. Its not just about tournament seeding, its also about watching an enjoyable game.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 15, 2023, 05:31:57 AM
It's UCLA and there's no real debate. You can either go to Maui, win, and get three quality games, or you can go lose, get a D2 game that is all downside, and hope to get one good opponent in the third game.

I agree with this analysis

The next game

Maui organizers holding back tickets from the Marquette masses. Bizarre.

Mahalo

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 15, 2023, 08:20:55 AM
The next game

In this instance, you're absolutely right. Then, after they beat UCLA, you'll be right again.

Quote from: Jay Bee on November 15, 2023, 08:33:59 AM
Maui organizers holding back tickets from the Marquette masses. Bizarre.

Mahalo

We couldn't get anything specific for MU so we went with the all access thing.

JB - they are holding back tickets?

What are you basing that on ?


Re: original question- UCLA.  Obviously

Quote from: Mu8891 on November 15, 2023, 08:44:53 AM
JB - they are holding back tickets?

What are you basing that on ?

They have not started selling upper level tix to the masses yet. People continue to ask. Their x account says, "stay tuned for info on tix!", even as of yesterday. It's effin Wednesday before the tourney - wtf?

Quote from: Jay Bee on November 15, 2023, 08:50:09 AM
They have not started selling upper level tix to the masses yet. People continue to ask. Their x account says, "stay tuned for info on tix!", even as of yesterday. It's effin Wednesday before the tourney - wtf?

Goldilocks approach.  Good-Better-Best. Holding back the good inventory to panic you into buying better.

Quote from: 1SE on November 15, 2023, 06:03:33 AM
From a schedule standpoint, sure. But one could argue that's COLE thinking "we need a strong schedule to make our tournament case." We don't need to make a tournament case. We need to make our 1 seed case - our one seed case is best served by winning it all in Maui.

I get that we don't get to game 3 if we don't win games 1 and 2, but, by that same logic, the most important game in the tournament will be our first round game. If (when) we make the Maui Final - one could easily argue that's the most important non-con game. 

This is a year for hardware, not moral victories.

Has nothing to do with moral victories or COLE. It has everything to do with the fact that a loss means you might leave HI where your best win is Chaminade or Syracuse. It's not a death knell but if you have championship aspirations, you want a chance to measure yourself against the best.

I'd bet a win against UCLA all but locks in a top 10 noncon SOS

Quote from: GB Warrior on November 15, 2023, 09:41:21 AM
Has nothing to do with moral victories or COLE. It has everything to do with the fact that a loss means you might leave HI where your best win is Chaminade or Syracuse. It's not a death knell but if you have championship aspirations, you want a chance to measure yourself against the best.

I'd bet a win against UCLA all but locks in a top 10 noncon SOS

There is a very good chance one of Gonzaga or Purdue plays in the consolation game. The Purdue vs Gonzaga loser should beat Syracuse.

Obviously, we want to be in the winner's bracket.  But at a minimum, avoid Syracuse.  A loss to UCLA and win against Gonzaga/Purdue isn't the end of the world.

That said, let's win the whole f-ing thing.

Quote from: Jay Bee on November 15, 2023, 08:50:09 AM
They have not started selling upper level tix to the masses yet. People continue to ask. Their x account says, "stay tuned for info on tix!", even as of yesterday. It's effin Wednesday before the tourney - wtf?

I have done a lot of business in Hawaii. They operate at a slower pace . 

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 15, 2023, 08:20:55 AM
The next game

This.  They're all big this year.

Southern.  Drop that one and we're screwed.

Quote from: Herman Cain on November 15, 2023, 10:00:17 AM
I have done a lot of business in Hawaii. They operate at a slower pace .

Kemper is based in Northbrook.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 15, 2023, 10:17:20 AM
Kemper is based in Northbrook.

I've done business in Northbrook. It's not the gem Shermerville was.

Little Louie's in Northbrook is my favorite Chicago hot dog spot in all Chicagoland

Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 15, 2023, 08:34:34 AM
In this instance, you're absolutely right. Then, after they beat UCLA, you'll be right again.

Not in this case....playing KU is much more important than beating KU.
So, beating UCLA is the most important game of the non con.

Quote from: We R Final Four on November 15, 2023, 02:33:26 PM
Not in this case....playing KU is much more important than beating KU.
So, beating UCLA is the most important game of the non con.

What if Chaminade pulls the upset of the century? Do we want to lose to UCLA to play Kansas?

Quote from: HowardsWorld on November 15, 2023, 03:20:15 PM
What if Chaminade pulls the upset of the century? Do we want to lose to UCLA to play Kansas?

It's actually be quite disastrously hilarious if we won and all the underdogs also won.

Quote from: HowardsWorld on November 15, 2023, 03:20:15 PM
What if Chaminade pulls the upset of the century? Do we want to lose to UCLA to play Kansas?

Resulting.

I voted Illini. 
Hard to tell what we were this year after just 2 cupcakey home wins-
Going on the road into a tough environment and a gritty top 25 team was going to reveal much about what this might be without OMax and the mix of newbies. 
Would we play our game as we would at home or fall into the pace and physicality of a B10 sloggy slug fight?  Would road jitters and ensuing errors result?

While I wasn't super impressed with IL as a team, they showed their toughness and gave MU a real test.  And we met that and dispelled many concerns I had about the team showing up, pushing an MU tempo and doing what they do pretty well away from the friendly confines. 


Proves to me that they belong- that last year was not divine providence- and we should be able to play with anybody anywhere and win more than our share. 


Time to ratchet it up!

I think the conditional nature of the 2nd and 3rd Maui games factors in everyone thinking that UCLA is most important - which is why I tried to include the different conditional options in the poll. Does your thinking change if we think about each (potential) game as an independent event - i.e. if I had titled the poll "most important (potential) non-con game"

So, next week when we go:

UCLA-W, KU-W, PU-W

which win was most important? Surely KU or PU - and I'd argue it's pretty clearly PU since that gets us some hardware? 

So - of all the games we could play in non-con - which would be the most important win on its own?

Quote from: 1SE on November 16, 2023, 03:26:50 AM
I think the conditional nature of the 2nd and 3rd Maui games factors in everyone thinking that UCLA is most important - which is why I tried to include the different conditional options in the poll. Does your thinking change if we think about each (potential) game as an independent event - i.e. if I had titled the poll "most important (potential) non-con game"

So, next week when we go:

UCLA-W, KU-W, PU-W

which win was most important? Surely KU or PU - and I'd argue it's pretty clearly PU since that gets us some hardware? 

So - of all the games we could play in non-con - which would be the most important win on its own?

UCLA, because the latter two cannot happen if the first is not a win. The only one of those three that directly impacts the ability of the latter two to happen is the first one, therefore it is the most important.

You can't really argue the latter two when they cannot even exist without the first one happening.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2023, 08:03:33 AM
UCLA, because the latter two cannot happen if the first is not a win. The only one of those three that directly impacts the ability of the latter two to happen is the first one, therefore it is the most important.

You can't really argue the latter two when they cannot even exist without the first one happening.

Right - and I've acknowledged that - but that's exactly the same as UCONN saying the most important game of their season last year was Iona.

So - after we win all 3 in Maui - will you still say UCLA was the most important?

Quote from: 1SE on November 16, 2023, 08:30:46 AM
Right - and I've acknowledged that - but that's exactly the same as UCONN saying the most important game of their season last year was Iona.

So - after we win all 3 in Maui - will you still say UCLA was the most important?

Yes.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 16, 2023, 08:35:07 AM

Yes.

I'm sure that Iona game will go down in the annals of UCONN lore - just like how the first game that comes to mind from 2003 is Holy Cross and not Kentucky.

Quote from: 1SE on November 16, 2023, 08:39:09 AM
I'm sure that Iona game will go down in the annals of UCONN lore - just like how the first game that comes to mind from 2003 is Holy Cross and not Kentucky.

Comparing the Maui Invitational to the NCAA Tournament is....interesting.  You don't understand the difference between a one-and-done, end of the year tournament and a holiday tournament where you are still playing with a loss, but your schedule gets severely downgraded?

IMO It would be better for Marquette to go 1-2 in Hawaii, provided the win is against UCLA, instead of 2-1 with the loss being against UCLA. 

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 16, 2023, 09:00:05 AM

Comparing the Maui Invitational to the NCAA Tournament is....interesting.  You don't understand the difference between a one-and-done, end of the year tournament and a holiday tournament where you are still playing with a loss, but your schedule gets severely downgraded?

IMO It would be better for Marquette to go 1-2 in Hawaii, provided the win is against UCLA, instead of 2-1 with the loss being against UCLA.

Schedule-navel-gazing is for bubble teams. Marquette is in the dance unless they've somehow pulled one over on us all and are a complete fraud. Going 1-2 or 2-1 in the ways you suggested won't change that at all - it almost certainly won't have any impact on seed either. 10 years from now, when we look back on this season, if we've gone 1-2 or 2-1 no one will care or remember. If we go 3-0 - and really only if we go 3-0 - then we still might be talking about how we won the strongest Maui tournament of all time.  But if we've gone 3-0 - the most important game in that outcome will be Purdue - not UCLA.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 16, 2023, 09:00:05 AM

IMO It would be better for Marquette to go 1-2 in Hawaii, provided the win is against UCLA, instead of 2-1 with the loss being against UCLA.

*1-1 with a loss to UCLA

They're blowing UCLA out

Quote from: 1SE on November 16, 2023, 09:19:53 AM
Schedule-navel-gazing is for bubble teams.

It's not though.  It's for all teams that aspire to be in the NCAAs.

Seeding isn't just about how well you do.  It's about how well you do compared to your competition. If Purdue, Kansas, Tennessee, Arizona, and Marquette all go 30-1, all 5 would be deserving of 1 seeds but one of them would get a 2 seed. In that scenario,  Marquette losing to UCLA and getting stuck with a scrimmage against Chaminade could be the thing that designates MU as the one that gets demoted to a 2 seed.

UCLA is objectively the most important. If you remove that as an option, they're all equally important from an NCAAT seeding standpoint. From an emotional/prestige standpoint, I think the Maui championship would be the one but could hear arguments for Bucky/ND (rivalry games) or Illinois (best November true road win in at least 35 years)

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 16, 2023, 09:50:47 AM
They're blowing UCLA out

Agreed.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 16, 2023, 09:50:47 AM
They're blowing UCLA out

Who are you and what have you done with Rico?

Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 16, 2023, 01:21:45 PM
Who are you and what have you done with Rico?

My prediction from the predictions topic will be wrong but they're blowing out UCLA.  UCLA can't shoot. 

Well, Hansbrough picked UCLA to win Maui on field of 68 last night so I guess we better get ready for chaminade Tuesday

Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 16, 2023, 01:42:04 PM
Well, Hansbrough picked UCLA to win Maui on field of 68 last night so I guess we better get ready for chaminade Tuesday

I know your comment is sarcasm, but Hansbrough was also looking at his notes when he was talking about Marquette and did not even know David Joplin's name. He also admitted he did not watch Marquette until the BE tournament and had no idea TKO was this good.

Quote from: MUbiz on November 16, 2023, 02:03:35 PM
I know your comment is sarcasm, but Hansbrough was also looking at his notes when he was talking about Marquette and did not even know David Joplin's name. He also admitted he did not watch Marquette until the BE tournament and had no idea TKO was this good.

To be fair he also listed Joplin as a breakout player who he thinks will get better and better as the year goes on haha

But yeah, in terms of being up to date on everything going hes probably their weakest regular/semi regular.

He also mostly said he was taking UCLA to not be predicatable.

Well we got the one everyone wanted. That's good.

But to all you "just happy to be here" types - shed the COLE. This year's team is for winning. Every game. Every championship.

7,535 days ago we were "just happy to be there" too. And it has been a long time waiting for revenge. I want this next one. Bad. I'm sure these guys do too.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_VZob2WIAA5BKt?format=jpg&name=large)

1SE

There is one goal this season and no house money this year. The guys are in position to do something special and beating Kansas is another step towards the ultimate goal.

Quote from: Goose on November 21, 2023, 01:34:22 AM
1SE

There is one goal this season and no house money this year. The guys are in position to do something special and beating Kansas is another step towards the ultimate goal.

Yep, and I don't think Shaka's a "house money" kind of coach.

Tomorrow will be a hell of a test. But each win we get makes me want the next one more.

ISE

MU faithful has waited nearly a half of century for these type of games and it needs to be enjoyed and appreciated. Imo, these guys play like they have waited a lifetime to play in these type of games. I have no idea how far they go this year, but I would never bet against them.

IMO, there is not a team in the country that is looking forward to playing MU and that includes Kansas. I think tomorrow might be a special night for the program.

Quote from: Goose on November 21, 2023, 01:50:15 AM
ISE

MU faithful has waited nearly a half of century for these type of games and it needs to be enjoyed and appreciated. Imo, these guys play like they have waited a lifetime to play in these type of games. I have no idea how far they go this year, but I would never bet against them.

IMO, there is not a team in the country that is looking forward to playing MU and that includes Kansas. I think tomorrow might be a special night for the program.

While the Al era was before my time, 2003 was a special year.

But, what I love about now vs. then is that 2003 was a special year built around a very special player. Once he was gone so was the magic.

This team is built around a very special coach and programme. We have a legitimate shot at winning it all this year (like we, arguably, did in 2003). But unlike 2003, if we don't win it all this year I am fully convinced that there are going to be many more bites at the apple as long as Shaka is here.

Quote from: 1SE on November 21, 2023, 01:57:54 AM
While the Al era was before my time, 2003 was a special year.

But, what I love about now vs. then is that 2003 was a special year built around a very special player. Once he was gone so was the magic.

This team is built around a very special coach and programme. We have a legitimate shot at winning it all this year (like we, arguably, did in 2003). But unlike 2003, if we don't win it all this year I am fully convinced that there are going to be many more bites at the apple as long as Shaka is here.

I'd love that to b the case.