2 games into the new season and the Maple Leafs already exciting the faithful in route to yet another spring of misery. 13 goals in 2 games to start the season plus B2B Matthews hat tricks is pretty wild regardless.
More importantly for me, really interesting year coming up for the Blackhawks. I think holistically, this is the first truly clean slate season, post-organizational shameless lack of morality. Rocky passing too young is truly sad, but there is nobody in a position of leadership who had a part of the awfulness of the Kyle Beach saga. Bowman and MacIssac are gone, same with McDonoguh, and now Rocky passed and Toews is no longer the final member of the team still on the roster.
Very young GM, newer coach, and now a super young core. Getting a generational talent at #1 obviously, but I love what Davidson did in the off-season. Hall next to Bedard after his resurgence in Boston is intriguing. LOVE getting Foligno for veteran leadership on playoff teams in 3 diff orgs. Despise Corey Perry, but that's another wiley veteran former star for Bedard to learn from. And Donato was a savvy situational grab as well.
And given 2 paragraphs ago about a fresh start, Bedard couldn't be a more perfect fit to face the franchise. Humble, wholesome, his early pressers have been a breath of fresh air. Hope he keeps some of it.
Bedard is on pace for almost 60 goals.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on November 12, 2023, 02:10:15 PM
Bedard is on pace for almost 60 goals.
The latest rumors about the Blackhawks sure are something.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 28, 2023, 02:55:00 PM
The latest rumors about the Blackhawks sure are something.
?
Edit: NVM. Wow.
Do tell? I assume something about Perry being let go.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 28, 2023, 03:41:17 PM
Do tell? I assume something about Perry being let go.
Pulled a Delonte West.
Its a pretty typical Wild roster that will probably lack the top end talent to win a playoff series(should they get there)
But in 14 games since firing Evason(waited at least 5 games too long most would say 10) they have the best point % in the NHL.
So they got that going for them right now at least.
If you missed the World Junior gold Medal Game, USA v Sweden, NHL Network is showing replays of it. (6-2 USA)
Free trials on streaming D-Stream, Fubo, Sling.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 28, 2023, 12:15:55 AM
Its a pretty typical Wild roster that will probably lack the top end talent to win a playoff series(should they get there)
But in 14 games since firing Evason(waited at least 5 games too long most would say 10) they have the best point % in the NHL.
So they got that going for them right now at least.
7 key injuries happened and team is quickly toast again haha
P.K. Subban said today that Connor McDavid is "the most talented player that the NHL has ever seen."
OK, Millennial.
Quote from: MU82 on April 23, 2024, 07:01:30 PM
P.K. Subban said today that Connor McDavid is "the most talented player that the NHL has ever seen."
OK, Millennial.
Its not that wild a comment. Mcdavid is insane
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 23, 2024, 07:09:00 PM
Its not that wild a comment. Mcdavid is insane
He's great.
And maybe Anthony Edwards is the most talented player the NBA has ever seen, too.
Quote from: MU82 on April 23, 2024, 07:15:21 PM
He's great.
And maybe Anthony Edwards is the most talented player the NBA has ever seen, too.
Thats a brutal comparison.
If youre gonna disagree with McDavid being an all timer(youd be wrong) at least use like Durant or something
Quote from: MU82 on April 23, 2024, 07:15:21 PM
He's great.
And maybe Anthony Edwards is the most talented player the NBA has ever seen, too.
McDavid has won 5 scoring titles and three MVPs.
How about Edwards?
If Subban is wrong, it's not by much.
#99 had an innate hockey sense that allowed him to play the game better than anyone ever has, but in terms of pure hockey skills, McDavid is arguably the best.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 23, 2024, 07:09:00 PM
Its not that wild a comment. Mcdavid is insane
Much fanfare was given to McDavid hitting 100 assists.
Gretzky did it 11 times
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 23, 2024, 07:37:03 PM
Much fanfare was given to McDavid hitting 100 assists.
Gretzky did it 11 times
Correct. Different eras. Way different game styles. Rules. Goalies. Everything.
But even so, its not about Gretzky vs McDavid. Its not a wild comment because McDavid is legit one of the most talented players to ever play
And MU82 made it sound like he wasnt and pretty much confirmed that with the insane Edwards analogy.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 23, 2024, 07:35:00 PM
McDavid has won 5 scoring titles and three MVPs.
How about Edwards?
If Subban is wrong, it's not by much.
#99 had an innate hockey sense that allowed him to play the game better than anyone ever has, but in terms of pure hockey skills, McDavid is arguably the best.
Not only is McDavid insanely skilled, like preposterously skilled...he's arguably the fastest skater in the NHL, top 3 at a minimum. He's an absolute freak
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 23, 2024, 07:37:03 PM
Much fanfare was given to McDavid hitting 100 assists.
Gretzky did it 11 times
Eh ... bit like comparing what NFL QBs did in the 80s to the 2020s.
In 85-86, there were 7.9 goals per game.
Last year, there were 6.3.
But I don't think anyone is saying McDavid is better.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 23, 2024, 07:46:24 PM
Correct. Different eras. Way different game styles. Rules. Goalies. Everything.
But even so, its not about Gretzky vs McDavid. Its not a wild comment because McDavid is legit one of the most talented players to ever play
And MU82 made it sound like he wasnt and pretty much confirmed that with the insane Edwards analogy.
Yes, rules are different. In fact they installed the Gretzky rule in 2004 or 2005, I think, to open up scoring. If PK would have said physically gifted, sure. But half the game is 90% mental.Gretzky is the greatest hockey player, and its not even close.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 23, 2024, 08:31:35 PM
Yes, rules are different. In fact they installed the Gretzky rule in 2004 or 2005, I think, to open up scoring. If PK would have said physically gifted, sure. But half the game is 90% mental.Gretzky is the greatest hockey player, and its not even close.
Scoring is down you were literally just shown that
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 23, 2024, 08:32:56 PM
Scoring is down you were literally just shown that
Because Gretzky isnt playing, duh!
I saw Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes.
Those who want to say McDavid is more talented than each of them were, cool.
I actually really like watching McDavid. He's great.
Quote from: MU82 on April 23, 2024, 09:53:55 PM
I saw Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes.
Those who want to say McDavid is more talented than each of them were, cool.
I actually really like watching McDavid. He's great.
agree. When McDavid wins 8 straight Hart trophies, I'll call him more talented than Gretzky. To each his own.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 24, 2024, 04:50:17 AM
agree. When McDavid wins 8 straight Hart trophies, I'll call him more talented than Gretzky. To each his own.
To be fair, nobody has said McDavid is "better" than Gretzky, just more talented. Rodgers is far more talented than Tom Brady, but that doesn't mean he's better than Brady.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 24, 2024, 06:18:51 AM
To be fair, nobody has said McDavid is "better" than Gretzky, just more talented. Rodgers is far more talented than Tom Brady, but that doesn't mean he's better than Brady.
I guess we have different definitions of talent
I agree that there's semantics involved, as there is in so many of these discussions.
I mean, maybe Anthony Edwards IS more "talented" than Jordan, Bryant, etc, were, but he's obviously not more "accomplished." One could make a similar argument about McDavid vs Orr/Gretzky/Lemieux, even if I disagree.
So I'll say right now that maybe I shouldn't have been so dismissive of Subban's comment.
However, I'll also say that maybe ESPN's hockey expert shouldn't be 100% certain that a talented guy who has led his team to absolutely nothing of note in 9 years is more talented than uber-talented icons who led their teams to greatness. And, in the cases of Orr and Gretzky, talented icons who did things on the ice that no hockey observer had ever seen before ... and who set standards that the likes of McDavid are still trying to match.
Quote from: MU82 on April 24, 2024, 08:05:05 AM
I agree that there's semantics involved, as there is in so many of these discussions.
I mean, maybe Anthony Edwards IS more "talented" than Jordan, Bryant, etc, were, but he's obviously not more "accomplished." One could make a similar argument about McDavid vs Orr/Gretzky/Lemieux, even if I disagree.
So I'll say right now that maybe I shouldn't have been so dismissive of Subban's comment.
However, I'll also say that maybe ESPN's hockey expert shouldn't be 100% certain that a talented guy who has led his team to absolutely nothing of note in 9 years is more talented than uber-talented icons who led their teams to greatness. And, in the cases of Orr and Gretzky, talented icons who did things on the ice that no hockey observer had ever seen before ... and who set standards that the likes of McDavid are still trying to match.
No the issue is you used Edwards with McDavid.
One guy has been the best player in his sport over and over again already by his mid 20s
The other while extremely talented most argue isn't even a superstar within his current peers yet.
I know the Coyotes were an abysmal failure in Phoenix, but I'm not sure Salt Lake is a great idea. The next smallest metropolitan area that has both an NHL and NBA team is Denver. Denver is the 19th largest metropolitan area...Salt Lake is 46th.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 24, 2024, 08:09:10 AM
No the issue is you used Edwards with McDavid.
One guy has been the best player in his sport over and over again already by his mid 20s
The other while extremely talented most argue isn't even a superstar within his current peers yet.
No, the issue is the definition of "talented."
But sure, take Edwards out of this if you possibly can. I will - I shouldn't have used that example because I didn't need to.
Not a shred of actual evidence exists to "prove" that Connor McDavid is more talented than Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux were (and probably others, too, but those 3 are pretty obvious). It's classic recency bias. And only somebody who knows absolutely nothing about hockey before the turn of the century would argue that McDavid has been more accomplished or important than any of those 3.
Quote from: MU82 on April 24, 2024, 09:01:10 AM
No, the issue is the definition of "talented."
But sure, take Edwards out of this if you possibly can. I will - I shouldn't have used that example because I didn't need to.
Not a shred of actual evidence exists to "prove" that Connor McDavid is more talented than Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux were (and probably others, too, but those 3 are pretty obvious). It's classic recency bias. And only somebody who knows absolutely nothing about hockey before the turn of the century would argue that McDavid has been more accomplished or important than any of those 3.
Huh???
You keep twisting yourself
First you say "talented" then you finish with "accomplishments"
Did goldeneagles03 hack your account with the goal post shifting?
No one one here has said McDavid has accomplished more than Gretzky or Orr. Hell, no one has even said he's definitely more talented. You just keep using insane analogies and arguments because you're upset Subban said he's the most talented to ever play.
Which right or wrong, is not outlandish. He's an absolute freak.
I think the only bias is truly you with current generation type players and more of a love for nostalgia. You're the same guy who acts like Mike Trout is closer to Michael A Taylor talent wise than Hank Aaron.
Quote from: MU82 on April 24, 2024, 09:01:10 AM
Not a shred of actual evidence exists to "prove" that Connor McDavid is more talented than Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux were (and probably others, too, but those 3 are pretty obvious). It's classic recency bias. And only somebody who knows absolutely nothing about hockey before the turn of the century would argue that McDavid has been more accomplished or important than any of those 3.
I'm not sure how one "proves" an entirely subjective opinion, but that said ... if you can watch Connor McDavid skate end-to-end at top speed, stickhandling through five defenders and then deking a goaltender and scoring top shelf, and not believe he might be the most gifted players ever, I'm not sure what I can tell you.
If you're equating talent with only production, you're correct, Gretzky is unparalleled. But I don't think it's crazy to define talent more broadly.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 24, 2024, 09:14:49 AM
Huh???
You keep twisting yourself
First you say "talented" then you finish with "accomplishments"
Did goldeneagles03 hack your account with the goal post shifting?
No one one here has said McDavid has accomplished more than Gretzky or Orr. Hell, no one has even said he's definitely more talented. You just keep using insane analogies and arguments because you're upset Subban said he's the most talented to ever play.
Which right or wrong, is not outlandish. He's an absolute freak.
I think the only bias is truly you with current generation type players and more of a love for nostalgia. You're the same guy who acts like Mike Trout is closer to Michael A Taylor talent wise than Hank Aaron.
P.K. Subban called McDavid "the most talented player that the NHL has ever seen," and I disagreed. I never said that any Scoopers said anything, and I'm not "upset" about what Subban or anybody else said. Your tone would suggest that you're the one who is "upset," though you probably aren't. Who gets upset about silly sh!t like this?
Quote from: Pakuni on April 24, 2024, 09:31:22 AM
I'm not sure how one "proves" an entirely subjective opinion, but that said ... if you can watch Connor McDavid skate end-to-end at top speed, stickhandling through five defenders and then deking a goaltender and scoring top shelf, and not believe he might be the most gifted players ever, I'm not sure what I can tell you.
If you're equating talent with only production, you're correct, Gretzky is unparalleled. But I don't think it's crazy to define talent more broadly.
That's fair. McDavid certainly might be among the most gifted players ever. I sure have enjoyed watching him play.
Quote from: MU82 on April 24, 2024, 08:05:05 AM
However, I'll also say that maybe ESPN's hockey expert shouldn't be 100% certain that a talented guy who has led his team to absolutely nothing of note in 9 years is more talented than uber-talented icons who led their teams to greatness. And, in the cases of Orr and Gretzky, talented icons who did things on the ice that no hockey observer had ever seen before ... and who set standards that the likes of McDavid are still trying to match.
Its worth nothing that unlike Gretzky's time in Edmonton, McDavid's time has been with a largely incompetent organization. 99's first Stanley Cup winning team had 6 other future HOFers. In McDavid's 9 years, he's played with exactly ONE other player who has made more than 1 ASG, much less a HOF resume. Other than Draisaitl, there has been one solitary ASG appearance from ANY other Oiler in 9 years (Taylor Hall in 2016 when McDavid was a rookie). They've managed to put absolute garbage around him for almost a decade.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 24, 2024, 08:38:03 AM
I know the Coyotes were an abysmal failure in Phoenix, but I'm not sure Salt Lake is a great idea. The next smallest metropolitan area that has both an NHL and NBA team is Denver. Denver is the 19th largest metropolitan area...Salt Lake is 46th.
Its less to do with SLC and more to do with Ryan Smith, who also owns the Jazz. He's committed to throwing a bunch of money behind the new team and I think that support is the most attractive thing about them. And the fact that the Jazz are well supported and attended.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 24, 2024, 12:09:02 PM
Its worth nothing that unlike Gretzky's time in Edmonton, McDavid's time has been with a largely incompetent organization. 99's first Stanley Cup winning team had 6 other future HOFers. In McDavid's 9 years, he's played with exactly ONE other player who has made more than 1 ASG, much less a HOF resume. Other than Draisaitl, there has been one solitary ASG appearance from ANY other Oiler in 9 years (Taylor Hall in 2016 when McDavid was a rookie). They've managed to put absolute garbage around him for almost a decade.
Zach freaking Hyman is a 50 goal scorer thanks to playing with McDavid.
I'm actually glad that McDavid isn't surrounded by a bunch of talent. Playoff season would be a lot less interesting.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 24, 2024, 12:09:02 PM
Its worth nothing that unlike Gretzky's time in Edmonton, McDavid's time has been with a largely incompetent organization. 99's first Stanley Cup winning team had 6 other future HOFers. In McDavid's 9 years, he's played with exactly ONE other player who has made more than 1 ASG, much less a HOF resume. Other than Draisaitl, there has been one solitary ASG appearance from ANY other Oiler in 9 years (Taylor Hall in 2016 when McDavid was a rookie). They've managed to put absolute garbage around him for almost a decade.
Fair.
Gretzky did help make a lot of those around him great, too, as did Lemiuex, so there's the chicken/egg situation. But sure, the Oilers had lots of talent.
Hey, the fact that McDavid is even being mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr is a tremendous compliment to him. He's a hell of a player.
McDavid is pretty good.
Sensational goal. Reminded me of a few I saw Lemieux score, which is high praise.
Nice to see a Canadian team have a shot at the Cup.
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2024, 10:02:40 PM
Sensational goal. Reminded me of a few I saw Lemieux score, which is high praise.
Nice to see a Canadian team have a shot at the Cup.
His speed and control in tight spaces is seriously ridiculous. I don't think they have enough but maybe their goalie has figured things out.
Although I'm perfectly happy with this Final (and I'm sure folks are perfectly happy that I'm perfectly happy), I can't imagine that NBC is turning cartwheels over Edmonton-Florida.
Quote from: MU82 on June 03, 2024, 06:41:23 AM
Although I'm perfectly happy with this Final (and I'm sure folks are perfectly happy that I'm perfectly happy), I can't imagine that NBC is turning cartwheels over Edmonton-Florida.
Despite being a good team, the Panthers aren't popular. Almost like there shouldn't be warm weather cities with NHL teams when there are great options in the North available.
Like, say, Milwaukee.
Milwaukee would not be a good NHL market.
There is a reason, that outside of the weirdness that is the moving of the Coyotes to Utah, that the largest market with both a NBA and NHL team is Denver. (And some larger than Denver have only one or the other.) I think it's very difficult for a NBA and NHL team to draw the crowds and corporate support needed for both in a metro area the size of Milwaukee.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 07:52:05 AM
Milwaukee would not be a good NHL market.
There is a reason, that outside of the weirdness that is the moving of the Coyotes to Utah, that the largest market with both a NBA and NHL team is Denver. (And some larger than Denver have only one or the other.) I think it's very difficult for a NBA and NHL team to draw the crowds and corporate support needed for both in a metro area the size of Milwaukee.
Did you mean smallest?
Denver is larger than many cities that have an NHL franchise. Probably not Metro but Denver has over 700K people.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 03, 2024, 09:25:50 AM
Denver is larger than many cities that have an NHL franchise. Probably not Metro but Denver has over 700K people.
I know.
I screwed up my point, but Denver is the smallest metro area with both a NBA and NHL team. (Utah will have both next year.) I think its difficult to sustain both unless you are of significant size.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 03, 2024, 09:30:41 AM
I know.
I screwed up my point, but Denver is the smallest metro area with both a NBA and NHL team. (Utah will have both next year.) I think its difficult to sustain both unless you are of significant size.
And St. Lake City is a terrible place for both. Just move it to Milwaukee already and make me happy.
It looks like the streak will move to 32 for the '24-25 season. Skinner isn't the answer for Edmonton.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 13, 2024, 08:48:45 PM
It looks like the streak will move to 32 for the '24-25 season. Skinner isn't the answer for Edmonton.
Hes not good
But this is not his fault at all.
Florida is so good. Deep as all hell. Excellent defensively. The goals to break this open were Edmonton falling asleep
Between this series and Celtics-Mavs, I can't remember the last time we had two such uncompetitive finals series the same year.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 13, 2024, 08:55:14 PM
Hes not good
But this is not his fault at all.
Florida is so good. Deep as all hell. Excellent defensively. The goals to break this open were Edmonton falling asleep
Yes. Florida is way better. That transition 2 on 1 was a thing of beauty.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 13, 2024, 09:10:29 PM
Between this series and Celtics-Mavs, I can't remember the last time we had two such uncompetitive finals series the same year.
Yeah. Pretty boring unfortunately.
Its been a very dull playoffs for both the NBA and NHL overall this year. Damn shame.
McDavid broke the single post season assist record.
Unfortunately this Panthers team is way too deep, so it won't amount to much
Win or lose this series, the Conn has to go to McDavid.
This series is getting insane. McDavid is starting to take it over on one end.
That last dime going coast to coast was seriously sick from McDavid.
The Stanley Cup just got a lot more interesting.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 18, 2024, 09:55:20 PM
The Stanley Cup just got a lot more interesting.
I don't follow hockey closely but if Edmonton forces a game 7, I will certainly tune in. Would be a lot of fun.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 18, 2024, 08:42:27 PM
Win or lose this series, the Conn has to go to McDavid.
It would be utter insanity if it didnt actually
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 18, 2024, 10:17:59 PM
It would be utter insanity if it didnt actually
Wouldn't hold your breath. Conn Smythe hasn't gone to a losing player since 2003. It hasn't gone to a skater on a losing team since 1976, and that guy scored 19 goals in 16 games (McDavid now has 8 goals in 23 games).
Quote from: Pakuni on June 18, 2024, 10:30:00 PM
Wouldn't hold your breath. Conn Smythe hasn't gone to a losing player since 2003. It hasn't gone to a skater on a losing team since 1976, and that guy scored 19 goals in 16 games (McDavid now has 8 goals in 23 games).
He's also got 34 assists which is the NHL record over Gretzky by 3 now.
Also the Panthers are deep as hell, its kinda the point of that roster to not really have a MVP
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 18, 2024, 10:32:29 PM
He's also got 34 assists which is the NHL record over Gretzky by 3 now.
FWIW, Gretzky was on the losing end of two Finals. Didn't win the Conn Smythe in either, including '83, when he scored 12-26-38 in 16 games (2.38 PPG). For comparison's sake, McDavid is at 1.82 PPG this playoffs.
Disagree all you want, but skaters on losing teams tend not to win playoff MVP awards. Even when they put up a lot of points.
QuoteAlso the Panthers are deep as hell, its kinda the point of that roster to not really have a MVP
Deep teams shouldn't get a playoff MVP?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 18, 2024, 11:14:58 PM
FWIW, Gretzky was on the losing end of two Finals. Didn't win the Conn Smythe in either, including '83, when he scored 12-26-38 in 16 games (2.38 PPG). For comparison's sake, McDavid is at 1.82 PPG this playoffs.
Disagree all you want, but skaters on losing teams tend not to win playoff MVP awards. Even when they put up a lot of points.
Deep teams shouldn't get a playoff MVP?
Did I say shouldn't?
No, Im saying they are deep as hell and that's the point of their roster. They don't have one guy carrying them. Tkachuk is the only player averaging 1 PPG(exactly 1 PPG). But they have 8 other guys in double figures. And a goalie looking more human recently.
The Conn Smythe is a MVP of the whole playoffs. They truly do not have that. Its part of what also makes them so good.
McDavid has been head and shoulders above anyone, hence why he should win it. And has a chance to do so.
Pak, who would you pick as MVP of the playoffs if you had the opportunity to vote?
Quote from: MU82 on June 19, 2024, 07:59:39 AM
Pak, who would you pick as MVP of the playoffs if you had the opportunity to vote?
I'd lean Bobrovskry, despite the last couple games. He's allowed two or fewer goals in 15 of 22 playoff games so far, and stole a couple games in this series.
To be clear, I'm not saying McDavid would be undeserving or a bad choice. Just that skaters on losing teams getting the Smythe is exceptionally rare. Once in 59 years, to be exact, and it took a guy scoring at better than goal-per-game pace for it to happen.
OK thanks. Absolutely agree on rarity of losing-team player getting MVP.
I'd lean toward McDavid, but Bobrovsky would be my second choice right now. If he has a couple more bad games and Florida wins anyway, it's hard to find another player on the Panthers deserving though.
Quote from: MU82 on June 19, 2024, 10:37:46 AM
OK thanks. Absolutely agree on rarity of losing-team player getting MVP.
I'd lean toward McDavid, but Bobrovsky would be my second choice right now. If he has a couple more bad games and Florida wins anyway, it's hard to find another player on the Panthers deserving though.
Big thing McDavid has going for him is obviously breaking a record by the Great one and leading all skaters in scoring by a massive margin.
The one other time a skater won the Conn as a loser it was similar with a goal scoring record. The clear cut highest scorer against a balanced team.
Flip over to playoff Bob, his GAA average would be the highest since 1990 as a winner. And he's got a worst save % then that 1990 winner due to how good Florida is in front of him he faces lower volume.
It would be unprecedented. But Florida just really doesn't have a true viable option
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 19, 2024, 11:56:36 AM
Big thing McDavid has going for him is obviously breaking a record by the Great one and leading all skaters in scoring by a massive margin.
The one other time a skater won the Conn as a loser it was similar with a goal scoring record. The clear cut highest scorer against a balanced team.
Flip over to playoff Bob, his GAA average would be the highest since 1990 as a winner. And he's got a worst save % then that 1990 winner due to how good Florida is in front of him he faces lower volume.
It would be unprecedented. But Florida just really doesn't have a true viable option
Let's say Florida wins tomorrow night 4-2. A Bobrovsky voter can justify it by saying: "He was the main reason the team got to the SCF and the main reason the team won the first 3 games vs Edmonton. So throw out his stats in the 2 relatively meaningless games (G4 and G5), and he's playoff MVP. Besides, where was the great McDavid when Edmonton was being stoned by Bobrovsky in the first 3 games of the SCF?"
I'm not saying that's the right or wrong way to think. I'm just saying that it's not very difficult to justify Bobrovsky over McDavid that way.
Quote from: MU82 on June 19, 2024, 01:21:44 PM
Let's say Florida wins tomorrow night 4-2. A Bobrovsky voter can justify it by saying: "He was the main reason the team got to the SCF and the main reason the team won the first 3 games vs Edmonton. So throw out his stats in the 2 relatively meaningless games (G4 and G5), and he's playoff MVP. Besides, where was the great McDavid when Edmonton was being stoned by Bobrovsky in the first 3 games of the SCF?"
I'm not saying that's the right or wrong way to think. I'm just saying that it's not very difficult to justify Bobrovsky over McDavid that way.
They could.
But cherry picking would be an even more unheard of vote.
Since like I said there a reason Bobs numbers would be easily the worst since at least 1990.
Also McDavid did still have 3 pts in 3 losses. So the same PPG as the panthers best player all playoffs.
That's mostly my point. McDavid even at his worst is clearly the most valuable player. And also the beauty of this Panthers two year run is just how much of a wagon they are top to bottom
McDavid deserves the award and imo it would properly award him while also in a way praising all of the panthers
Uhhhhhh...... Florida has been an unmitigated disaster in G6.
Oilers blow the doors off the Panthers to force a Game 7...with McDavid not contributing any of the points on the Oilers 5 goals and probably having his "worst" game of the series. Pretty wild.
Now we have a really unique dueling set of pressures. Florida with the pressure of not blowing a 3-0 lead and the Oilers, who would arguably be the freest and most at ease given their momentum...have the Canadian curse on their badk
Disappointed they didn't spread the playoffs out even more. Would be nice to have 2024 SC Final wrap up in 2027 or so.
Congrats to Florida.
Called it, historic playoff + a team with no dominant player=Losing player Conn Smythe
I am a bit surprised he still got it after 2 goose eggs. But goes to show it really wasnt even close when I said it game 5 then.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 21, 2024, 09:09:15 PM
Uhhhhhh...... Florida has been an unmitigated disaster in G6.
No longer a unmitigated disaster
Wondering if their fans will go out and do some celebratory panther poaching. They deserve it.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 24, 2024, 10:11:09 PM
No longer a unmitigated disaster
Wondering if their fans will go out and do some celebratory panther poaching. They deserve it.
Completely unacceptable comment.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 24, 2024, 11:10:23 PM
Completely unacceptable comment.
No, panthers are delicious
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 25, 2024, 06:50:33 AM
No, panthers are delicious
Don't sleep on sous vide panther loin
The Canadian misery continues.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 24, 2024, 10:10:22 PM
Called it, historic playoff + a team with no dominant player=Losing player Conn Smythe
I am a bit surprised he still got it after 2 goose eggs. But goes to show it really wasnt even close when I said it game 5 then.
Yep, you nailed it. But it really wasn't very surprising that McDavid won it, as his stats dominated.
I have absolutely no problem with him winning it (and nobody would care if I did), but I also would have had no problem with Bobrovsky getting it despite having 3 subpar games in the Final. He was outstanding throughout the first 3 rounds, the Panthers wouldn't have had a 3-0 series cushion had he not excelled in Games 1-3, and while McDavid was getting a second straight donut last night, Bobrovsky was withstanding wave after wave to deliver the Cup to Florida.
Regardless, McDavid would have gladly traded his individual award for Edmonton to win the series. But the better all-around team won ... albeit just barely.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 24, 2024, 11:10:23 PM
Completely unacceptable comment.
It's time to go medieval
Quote from: MU82 on June 25, 2024, 08:06:14 AM
Yep, you nailed it. But it really wasn't very surprising that McDavid won it, as his stats dominated.
I have absolutely no problem with him winning it (and nobody would care if I did), but I also would have had no problem with Bobrovsky getting it despite having 3 subpar games in the Final. He was outstanding throughout the first 3 rounds, the Panthers wouldn't have had a 3-0 series cushion had he not excelled in Games 1-3, and while McDavid was getting a second straight donut last night, Bobrovsky was withstanding wave after wave to deliver the Cup to Florida.
Regardless, McDavid would have gladly traded his individual award for Edmonton to win the series. But the better all-around team won ... albeit just barely.
I am not even sure if McDavid picked up his trophy. It might still be sitting there
I miss Doc Emrick. Sean MacD has a lot of issues. Including his asinine comments about McDavid during the 3rd period. He said something like "he's gonna hurt his legacy if he doesn't do something out there soon." Oh..... okay.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 25, 2024, 11:09:49 AM
I am not even sure if McDavid picked up his trophy. It might still be sitting there
From the Washington Post account:
After coming up just two goals short of the ultimate dream, after nearly pulling off a fairy-tale ending for the ages in the building where the Oilers drafted him nine years ago, McDavid was nowhere to be found as a staffer carried his trophy away.The article also included a quote from Leon Draisaitl:
"He's the greatest player to ever play, in my books. So many things that a lot of people don't see that he does, his work ethic. He single-handedly turned our franchise around, pretty much. Just love sharing the ice with him. He's just a really, really special person."
He's McDavid's teammate and friend, so I'd expect nothing less. But for those who are objective, it's pretty goofy to look at the bodies of work of McDavid, Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr and declare that McDavid is the greatest ever.
Now, I could listen to an argument that McDavid is the "most skilled," although I don't know how one could objectively determine that. But as far as records and accomplishments go, he simply isn't the greatest.
Quote from: MU82 on June 25, 2024, 01:19:01 PM
From the Washington Post account:
After coming up just two goals short of the ultimate dream, after nearly pulling off a fairy-tale ending for the ages in the building where the Oilers drafted him nine years ago, McDavid was nowhere to be found as a staffer carried his trophy away.
The article also included a quote from Leon Draisaitl:
"He's the greatest player to ever play, in my books. So many things that a lot of people don't see that he does, his work ethic. He single-handedly turned our franchise around, pretty much. Just love sharing the ice with him. He's just a really, really special person."
He's McDavid's teammate and friend, so I'd expect nothing less. But for those who are objective, it's pretty goofy to look at the bodies of work of McDavid, Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr and declare that McDavid is the greatest ever.
Now, I could listen to an argument that McDavid is the "most skilled," although I don't know how one could objectively determine that. But as far as records and accomplishments go, he simply isn't the greatest.
He didn't say most accomplished. You can't prove he's the greatest ever, but you also can't prove he's not. He's certainly in the conversation.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 25, 2024, 03:21:23 PM
He didn't say most accomplished. You can't prove he's the greatest ever, but you also can't prove he's not. He's certainly in the conversation.
That's fair, wades.
Whether or not he or someone else is the greatest ever is a matter of opinion.
Whether or not he is the most accomplished is simply fact-based. He obviously isn't, and it's not really very close.
And you know what? There's no shame in not being close, accomplishment-wise, to Gretzky and Lemieux, the most accomplished hockey players ever. This isn't meant as a "slight" to McDavid. He's great!
Quote from: MU82 on June 25, 2024, 04:35:56 PM
That's fair, wades.
Whether or not he or someone else is the greatest ever is a matter of opinion.
Whether or not he is the most accomplished is simply fact-based. He obviously isn't, and it's not really very close.
And you know what? There's no shame in not being close, accomplishment-wise, to Gretzky and Lemieux, the most accomplished hockey players ever. This isn't meant as a "slight" to McDavid. He's great!
Gordie Howe, eh?
Stanley Cups = Gordie 4, Mario 2
MVPs = Gordie 6, Mario 3
Scoring titles = Gordie 6, Mario 6
Quote from: Pakuni on June 25, 2024, 04:57:35 PM
Gordie Howe, eh?
Stanley Cups = Gordie 4, Mario 2
MVPs = Gordie 6, Mario 3
Scoring titles = Gordie 6, Mario 6
Sure, Gordie's in the conversation.
It's tough to compare defenseman and goalies to centers/wings. I'd probably go:
Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
McDavid
*Hasek ( I think he's the best goalie ever).
McDavid is on pace to be #2 imo and I would slot him ahead of Crosby.
It was the second-most watched playoffs ever.
https://awfulannouncing.com/ratings/2024-nhl-playoffs-second-most-ever.html