MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: shoothoops on August 04, 2023, 09:00:55 AM
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With the Women’s World Cup, August 1st opening of Fall Marquette Women’s
Soccer training camp. and with Marquette landing its first 2025 commit this week during the kickoff of official visit season, it’s a good time for the college soccer thread. (Marquette Men’s Soccer will open preseason camp next week.)
Frank Pelaez is in his 4th season as HC at MUWSOC. And the team will try to take a step forward a little closer to Georgetown and Xavier, the conference leaders of the past several years. The rebuild is still a work in progress. But there are signs of improved recruiting with the likes of Baca (up top and wing)and McMinn (defensive midfield, but can play higher) coming in this season. Solid inside out regional to national recruiting approach, targeting the geographies and clubs that make sense. In part success will be related to how well can MUWSOC recruit vs the top few teams in its league, as well as vs Power 5 teams, especially the Big 10. It’s essential to be able to be competitive recruiting head to head with Power 5 programs, to be successful in the Women’s game. It’s less of a factor in the Men’ game.
A reasonable shorter term goal would be to get to being an almost annual NCAA tourney team. Then build from there. They are not there yet. (pace, technical, tactical) But it is improved.
No stranger to MUWSOC, Pelaez was a 19 year MUWSOC assistant before leaving to help Loyola Chicago as an assistant, build and win MVC Championships. And he was part of some early program success.
First 2025 commit is Piper Lucier, who played in the E64 USYS Championship Game in Oceanside, CA this Summer (same time as some other MUWSOC commits were playing down the coast in Del Mar, CA in the ECNL playoffs) Piper is from Barrington High and FC 1974 club. She can play 3 different attacking positions. She also spent a year at IMG Academy in Bradenton, FL. It’s a good start for 2025.
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https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=65040.0
Mentioned that the strong start for MU Men’s Soccer was built largely on one good win over Wisconsin and some soft opponents.
And unfortunately that has held up. The offense has fallen off against more competitive teams, and they’ve lost 4 straight. RPI is 93. They are 5th in their division in the Big East.
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MU Women’s Soccer RPI is at 112. Early win at Colorado is the season highlight. They do get 2 good home games this week, especially Georgetown. The Hoyas are a perennial Women’s power and top 25 team. They finish at Xavier who has won the Big East a few times in recent years. And they are in 1st place once again. Scoring troubles all season and finding ways to lose close low scoring games. It’s competitive but there really isn’t a reason why MU can’t push to be the 3rd best team in the league. They are from the top 2.
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As expected, the Big East Women’s Soccer season will come down to the final day between Georgetown and Xavier. Marquette has an opportunity to play spoiler as a Xavier win vs MU gives them a share of the Big East Title with the Hoyas.
MU was a struggle bus for 2 seasons prior to the return of Frank Peleaz. And it has been a struggle bus in his first four seasons as head coach. Peleaz was a big part of MU success over two decades prior to leaving for 5 seasons at Loyola Chicago and having success there as an assistant.
123 RPI for MU (College soccer uses RPI) follows up seasons of 163, 103, 152. The 2 seasons prior to his return were 143 and 157. 8th, 7th, 7th in the past 3 league seasons since the division format was removed.
The Big East itself has been roughly the 9th best conference in Women’s college soccer during this time.
With little offense, they tried to hang around with defense as much as possible in the league. But the flood gates have opened with combined 0-8 score in their past games at home.
In order to be more successful in Women’s
Soccer, MU has to be able to recruit better bs regional teams at minimum. And player development needs improvement. This is mostly vs the Big 10 but not exclusive to it. It has to be a win some lose some level of recruiting going head to head against them as well as against the upper tier of the Big East such as Georgetown, Xavier, etc..among others.
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With the Men’s team, as mentioned, a soft non/conference schedule and one good win over Wisconsin had them out to a good early start. But that changed quickly.
1-5-3 in league play, which includes their most recent draw which was a “good” one against new league team Akron. RPI of 95 is on the outside looking in without a top level conference tourney performance.
MU will not finish with a losing record for the 13th time in 18 seasons under Louie Bennett. It will remain at 12. In that time MU has 2 Sweet 16’s sandwiched almost a decade apart, and 3 total NCAA appearances in 17 seasons, soon to be 18, without some late season magic. Wins over UNCW and top 10 RPI Georgetown, at home this week, would be a good place to start.
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And that will do it for the MU Women’s Soccer Season. Mentioned the opportunity to make something happen in their last 3 games against good teams. Final scores of those games were a combined 3 losses of 11-0. Ouch. Year 5 for Frank P next year.
Xavier and Georgetown are co champions, with X getting the 1 seed for the conference tourney. Nate Lie was a strong hire for them as he has had them as an annual top 25 caliber program the past 5 years, after inheriting a mess. UConn is a bubble team. They will probably need to get wins over Butler and Georgetown in the conference tourney to get an invite.
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Do you think the us college soccer infrastructure is greatly hindering player development in this country ?
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Do you think the us college soccer infrastructure is greatly hindering player development in this country ?
And should that matter?
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And should that matter?
I think it matters if you want to look at it from a "state of US Soccer" perspective. Its a totally valid question and worry...
As for the question...
Do you think the us college soccer infrastructure is greatly hindering player development in this country ?
I actually don't. Maybe 10-20 years ago. But there is enough structure, systems, and exposure that elite talents can find their way.
Do I think USMNT caliber players who develop early (guys like Pulisic, McKennie, Reyna, even other fringe guys like Tessman, Taylor Booth, etc... would be hindered/harmed in the traditional HS/club to NCAA track? Yes. But thats not really the case anymore. You have the MLS academies, some better than others, and residency programs, and plenty of foreign scouting in the country.
The kids still playing the NCAA track are probably in the best system for them at the level they are at. Of course there are guys who play NCAA for a few years that blow up and end up in Europe or getting caps, but they most likely wouldn't have been in the mix for the opportunities I mentioned earlier at that age.
I think the biggest hindrance in US Soccer is pay to play and the negative effect it has on the ecosystem in terms of finding and developing talent that don't have the means to afford select and travel teams.
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I think we’re at the point of independence with soccer in this country that it doesn’t matter how or where the top players develop. Cream rises to the top. However I think we’re at a huge disadvantage when other comparable countries 18 year olds are signing professional contracts while the majority of our 18 year olds are going to play 20 games a year with limited practice time against others with the same major limitations.
Play four years in college only to get fed into MLS where they need a couple years to prove themselves before a bigger move, except they’re 25-27 years old which hamstrings them in the transfer market.
Right now, our national team is propped up by dual nationals, all growing up outside of the country, who played and matured in a professional environment.
The depth of our talent pool would significantly increase if we upped the level of play from our 18-22 year old pool. That’s why I think the growth of USL can ultimately be huge. If they want to find a competive advantage over MLS (since MLS is hell bent on a closed system) USL would be smart to be the feeder system of young American talent.
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I think we’re at the point of independence with soccer in this country that it doesn’t matter how or where the top players develop. Cream rises to the top. However I think we’re at a huge disadvantage when other comparable countries 18 year olds are signing professional contracts while the majority of our 18 year olds are going to play 20 games a year with limited practice time against others with the same major limitations.
Play four years in college only to get fed into MLS where they need a couple years to prove themselves before a bigger move, except they’re 25-27 years old which hamstrings them in the transfer market.
Right now, our national team is propped up by dual nationals, all growing up outside of the country, who played and matured in a professional environment.
The depth of our talent pool would significantly increase if we upped the level of play from our 18-22 year old pool. That’s why I think the growth of USL can ultimately be huge. If they want to find a competive advantage over MLS (since MLS is hell bent on a closed system) USL would be smart to be the feeder system of young American talent.
No I don’t believe college soccer limits development. And I’m active in all levels of soccer.
I follow and discuss Men and Women’s Soccer, and their paths and approaches differ. You mentioned Men’s Soccer.
There are a variety of paths for Men. Top 30 high school aged players turn professional. It is not an exact science of 1 through 30. It varies but essentially about 30 teens turn pro domestically or overseas on the Men’s side.
MLS Next Pro is quickly becoming a developmental path to Men’s Soccer. Example: Patrick Schulte a keeper, played college soccer for snfew years. Both he and his team had individual and team success. Then he left for MLS Generation Adidas program draft. It’s a select group of college players that are non Seniors that get drafted. It’s usually less than 10 a year.
1st year as a pro Patrick led Columbus II to the MLS Next Pro Championship. His 2nd year as a pro, he beat out the veteran keepers at Columbus and became the starting keeper for Columbus Crew where he has les his team to the playoffs. And, he is one of four keepers in canp for two spots on the U.S. U23 Olympic Team. He will likely make the team along with Chris Brady from Chicago.
Several teenagers sign homegrown deals and then play on the MLS Next Pro team and go back and forth a bit. I do know of some players who will play temporarily on loan from MLS to USL. Isaiah Parker was stuck behind Farfan ar left back for Dallas. So he played MLS Next Pro for North Texas. Then for additional reps and development, they loaned him to San Antonio in USL.
For now there is a place for USL. But many younger players are going to go back and forth between their MLS Team and MLS Next Pro team.
Some players are borderline sign a homegrown deal or go to college. They choose both paths. Some players are not ready for pro soccer as a teen, whether that is physically, technically. emotionally, mentally, etc….and college offers a good development and maturity path for many players.
College to MLS or college to MLS Next Pro to MLS is fine.
And the college path varies too. By that I mean some teams are domestic heavy, some International Heavy, and some are a mix. It all depends.
College is still a good developmental path. MLS Next Pro is the popular new path and bridge to MLS.
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Women’s Soccer is very different. It’s still mostly a college to pro path. But they are increasing high school to pro. It’s about 5 per year right now of straight to pros. That will gradually increase as NWSL and European opportunities expand. There is a lot of competition right now for NWSL expansion. And there is also a new league coming too.
And of course with Women’s College Soccer, Power 5 is a much bigger deal as Men don’t field as many teams in those leagues. With Women, high academic and athletic schools are popular, Men too. With Men league matters much less.
I don’t really live in a world of one path. I’ve seen way too many players take a variety of successful paths.
Men’s college soccer recruits mostly from MLS Academies, non MLS Academies, and a few other mixed in like ECNL etc….Some top American MLS Academy players will play professionally abroad. Some committed college players will train with MLS Next Pro teams but still go to college when the time comes as long as they don’t sign a pro deal. Most don’t.
MLS Academies recruit all over for players both domestically and Internationally. I’m talking U15 U16, U17 etc and maybe younger too. So a kid might be from DC but plays for Colorado Rapids Academy then go to college then pro. That happens a lot. The players are not just local. Some are some aren’t.
International players know very little about American colleges. So some very good players transfer from smaller schools sometimes.
Women’s Soccer, ECNL is dominant, but Girls Academy is also a viable option as well as USYS. But ECNL Regional League is scooping up USYS teams.
That covers much of the basics. Just ask if there is anything I’m missing.
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For the first time since 1981, it is Ivy League Soccer Conference Tourney next weekend.
Brown Bears Women won their 4th straight Ivy League Title led by dynamic All American Forward Brittany Raphino.
Final Regular season game day today.
How many Ivy Women’s Soccer teams will make the NCAA Tourney this year? Quite possibly 4, with Brown, Princeton, Harvard, Columbia.
Games in Providence, Philly, New Haven, and Princeton today.
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1pm home game for Marquette Men’s Soccer. (92 RPI) And it’s a big one vs Georgetown. (5 RPI)
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No I don’t believe college soccer limits development. And I’m active in all levels of soccer.
I follow and discuss Men and Women’s Soccer, and their paths and approaches differ. You mentioned Men’s Soccer.
There are a variety of paths for Men. Top 30 high school aged players turn professional. It is not an exact science of 1 through 30. It varies but essentially about 30 teens turn pro domestically or overseas on the Men’s side.
MLS Next Pro is quickly becoming a developmental path to Men’s Soccer. Example: Patrick Schulte a keeper, played college soccer for snfew years. Both he and his team had individual and team success. Then he left for MLS Generation Adidas program draft. It’s a select group of college players that are non Seniors that get drafted. It’s usually less than 10 a year.
1st year as a pro Patrick led Columbus II to the MLS Next Pro Championship. His 2nd year as a pro, he beat out the veteran keepers at Columbus and became the starting keeper for Columbus Crew where he has les his team to the playoffs. And, he is one of four keepers in canp for two spots on the U.S. U23 Olympic Team. He will likely make the team along with Chris Brady from Chicago.
Several teenagers sign homegrown deals and then play on the MLS Next Pro team and go back and forth a bit. I do know of some players who will play temporarily on loan from MLS to USL. Isaiah Parker was stuck behind Farfan ar left back for Dallas. So he played MLS Next Pro for North Texas. Then for additional reps and development, they loaned him to San Antonio in USL.
For now there is a place for USL. But many younger players are going to go back and forth between their MLS Team and MLS Next Pro team.
Some players are borderline sign a homegrown deal or go to college. They choose both paths. Some players are not ready for pro soccer as a teen, whether that is physically, technically. emotionally, mentally, etc….and college offers a good development and maturity path for many players.
College to MLS or college to MLS Next Pro to MLS is fine.
And the college path varies too. By that I mean some teams are domestic heavy, some International Heavy, and some are a mix. It all depends.
College is still a good developmental path. MLS Next Pro is the popular new path and bridge to MLS.
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Women’s Soccer is very different. It’s still mostly a college to pro path. But they are increasing high school to pro. It’s about 5 per year right now of straight to pros. That will gradually increase as NWSL and European opportunities expand. There is a lot of competition right now for NWSL expansion. And there is also a new league coming too.
And of course with Women’s College Soccer, Power 5 is a much bigger deal as Men don’t field as many teams in those leagues. With Women, high academic and athletic schools are popular, Men too. With Men league matters much less.
I don’t really live in a world of one path. I’ve seen way too many players take a variety of successful paths.
Men’s college soccer recruits mostly from MLS Academies, non MLS Academies, and a few other mixed in like ECNL etc….Some top American MLS Academy players will play professionally abroad. Some committed college players will train with MLS Next Pro teams but still go to college when the time comes as long as they don’t sign a pro deal. Most don’t.
MLS Academies recruit all over for players both domestically and Internationally. I’m talking U15 U16, U17 etc and maybe younger too. So a kid might be from DC but plays for Colorado Rapids Academy then go to college then pro. That happens a lot. The players are not just local. Some are some aren’t.
International players know very little about American colleges. So some very good players transfer from smaller schools sometimes.
Women’s Soccer, ECNL is dominant, but Girls Academy is also a viable option as well as USYS. But ECNL Regional League is scooping up USYS teams.
That covers much of the basics. Just ask if there is anything I’m missing.
You did a very good job explaining the options of young players growing up in the American soccer system, but didn’t do anything to sway me as to why college is still a viable option for our kids a step below the elite. Most kids abroad are signing professional contracts at that age.
The options are quite frankly so poor that all of our top talent here with a passport choose to directly bypass it and head to Europe.
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You did a very good job explaining the options of young players growing up in the American soccer system, but didn’t do anything to sway me as to why college is still a viable option for our kids a step below the elite. Most kids abroad are signing professional contracts at that age.
The options are quite frankly so poor that all of our top talent here with a passport choose to directly bypass it and head to Europe.
1) I am not trying to sway you. I don’t care if you are swayed or not, no offense, nothing personal.
2) I disagree with your opinion about college soccer.
3) I do not live in a world of only U.S. Men’s National team or bust (plus top few European Men’s leagues.) My soccer interests are much more diverse than that. We already have a thread for that. This thread for example will be all things Women and Men’s College Soccer. And it’s fun.
As for college soccer, it’s been proven to be a bridge from academies to professional soccer. There are many examples. And that’s great.
The U.S. Men’s team will be filled with both foreign and domestic playing players.
If you live in Milwaukee or Chicago hopefully you’ll make the Marquette vs Georgetown game today. Enjoy.
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Right. College soccer provides opportunities for hundreds to keep playing, some to earn scholarships, and perhaps a few to even make a living at it when all is said and done.
Not everything has to be about elite talent development.
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Right. College soccer provides opportunities for hundreds to keep playing, some to earn scholarships, and perhaps a few to even make a living at it when all is said and done.
Not everything has to be about elite talent development.
Yep. And some do go on to do just that. I used a specific example of a player who played academy ball/USL ball, then college a few years, then one year MLS Next Pro, One year MLS, will be U23 Olympic Keeper and possible future National team keeper.
I know many soccer players that have been able to use soccer to attend and play for some of the best academic schools in the country. I know some that used college soccer to make a 6 and 7 figure living for many years playing professional soccer. I know several college soccer players that developed later than some of their peers and went on to professional soccer careers. I know several college soccer players that don’t play professional soccer and that’s just fine too. It’s a big wide mix. And some play domestically and some play internationally. Some go into coaching and player development.
Friends with a former Women’s player who plays professionally for the top team in Denmark. She has played in and she has scored goals in the UEFA Champions League. How cool is that?
It’s great.
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Yep. And some do go on to do just that. I used a specific example of a player who played academy ball/USL ball, then college a few years, then one year MLS Next Pro, One year MLS, will be U23 Olympic Keeper and possible future National team keeper.
I know many soccer players that have been able to use soccer to attend and play for some of the best academic schools in the country. I know some that used college soccer to make a 6 and 7 figure living for many years playing professional soccer. I know several college soccer players that developed later than some of their peers and went on to professional soccer careers. I know several college soccer players that don’t play professional soccer and that’s just fine too. It’s a big wide mix. And some play domestically and some play internationally. Some go into coaching and player development.
Friends with a former Women’s player who plays professionally for the top team in Denmark. She has played in and she has scored goals in the UEFA Champions League. How cool is that?
It’s great.
There is nothing elite about college soccer.
And those players earning scholarships could instead go sign professional contracts like everywhere else in the world. They don’t disappear, they go and play in a more viable and competitive infrastructure.
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There is nothing elite about college soccer.
And those players earning scholarships could instead go sign professional contracts like everywhere else in the world. They don’t disappear, they go and play in a more viable and competitive infrastructure.
Many college soccer players go on to play professionally domestically or internationally, some even at the highest levels. Georgetown, today’s MU opponent has had 34 of them. They won the 2021 National Title and they made the Final Four 2 years ago. Good program. I’m sure Brian Wiese would disagree with you.
It’s been explained to you that different players take different paths for different reasons. There isn’t just one way to do it.
Enjoy today’s game.
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There is nothing elite about college soccer.
And those players earning scholarships could instead go sign professional contracts like everywhere else in the world. They don’t disappear, they go and play in a more viable and competitive infrastructure.
Or they could play college soccer, get a scholarship, earn a degree and make a living doing something outside of playing in the Hungarian second tier.
Regardless the other options are available right now anyway. Why can’t both exist?
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Yep. And some do go on to do just that. I used a specific example of a player who played academy ball/USL ball, then college a few years, then one year MLS Next Pro, One year MLS, will be U23 Olympic Keeper and possible future National team keeper.
I know many soccer players that have been able to use soccer to attend and play for some of the best academic schools in the country. I know some that used college soccer to make a 6 and 7 figure living for many years playing professional soccer. I know several college soccer players that developed later than some of their peers and went on to professional soccer careers. I know several college soccer players that don’t play professional soccer and that’s just fine too. It’s a big wide mix. And some play domestically and some play internationally. Some go into coaching and player development.
Friends with a former Women’s player who plays professionally for the top team in Denmark. She has played in and she has scored goals in the UEFA Champions League. How cool is that?
It’s great.
Thanks, Chicos
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Many college soccer players go on to play professionally domestically or internationally, some even at the highest levels. Georgetown, today’s MU opponent has had 34 of them. They won the 2021 National Title and they made the Final Four 2 years ago. Good program. I’m sure Brian Wiese would disagree with you.
It’s been explained to you that different players take different paths for different reasons. There isn’t just one way to do it.
Enjoy today’s game.
Quick Wikipedia search says 100% of Georgetown alumni played pro domestically. No one played/plays abroad.
They start their professional career later on, play a lower level of soccer comparative to their peers across the world which sets them behind and lowers the quality of both our domestic leagues and the depth of our national team pool.
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Thanks, Chicos
I don’t know what that means but if she or he played college soccer, great.
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Quick Wikipedia search says 100% of Georgetown alumni played pro domestically. No one played/plays abroad.
They start their professional career later on, play a lower level of soccer comparative to their peers across the world which sets them behind and lowers the quality of both our domestic leagues and the depth of our national team pool.
Sigh.
Perhaps the fact you are using Wikipedia would tell you that not all Wikipedia pages are complete or accurate.
Do your own homework next time. Example:
Jacob Montes:
Portland Timbers Academy
College at Georgetown
Portland Timbers 2 MLS Next Pro
Signed with Crystal Palace, Premier League.
He had work visa issues and then played in Belgium and Brazil.
These aren’t 27 year olds. Schulte the previousy used example, plays for the U23 Olympic Team, He played multiple years of college soccer as well as 2 years of pro soccer. And he isn’t even 23.
Many college teams also take International trips every few years for cultural experiences, to play teams in other countries, as well as in some cases, to see some of their alums who play abroad too. It’s a big thing these days, just like in hoops.
Maybe take it elsewhere if you aren’t interested in college soccer.
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Sigh.
Perhaps the fact you are using Wikipedia would tell you that not all Wikipedia pages are complete or accurate.
Do your own homework next time. Example:
Jacob Montes:
Portland Timbers Academy
College at Georgetown
Portland Timbers 2 MLS Next Pro
Signed with Crystal Palace, Premier League.
He had work visa issues and then played in Belgium and Brazil.
These aren’t 27 year olds. Schulte the previousy used example, plays for the U23 Olympic Team, He played multiple years of college soccer as well as 2 years of pro soccer. And he isn’t even 23.
Many college teams also take International trips every few years for cultural experiences, to play teams in other countries, as well as in some cases, to see some of their alums who play abroad too. It’s a big thing these days, just like in hoops.
Maybe take it elsewhere if you aren’t interested in college soccer.
He probably didn’t graduate which is why he isn’t listed. One player struggling to make an impact abroad doesn’t exactly reinforce your point much either buddy. Oh and I wonder why he struggled with a work permit…..Could it be a lack of involvement in a national team set up ? Pretty challenging to play in the national team set up while you’re in college…Or gain status by playing in a fifa recognized league…
I don’t need to dig in too deep because I already know the answer to my question. The ceiling of the majority of players playing college soccer now is MLS. A lot of that has to do with the low level of play compared to their peers elsewhere.
I’m happy you enjoy college soccer, but it is a major problem in developing depth.
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He probably didn’t graduate which is why he isn’t listed. One player struggling to make an impact abroad doesn’t exactly reinforce your point much either buddy. Oh and I wonder why he struggled with a work permit…..Could it be a lack of involvement in a national team set up ? Pretty challenging to play in the national team set up while you’re in college…Or gain status by playing in a fifa recognized league…
I don’t need to dig in too deep because I already know the answer to my question. The ceiling of the majority of players playing college soccer now is MLS. A lot of that has to do with the low level of play compared to their peers elsewhere.
I’m happy you enjoy college soccer, but it is a major problem in developing depth.
Keep movin’ those goalposts.
And here I thought someone else was the most obtuse poster since Warden Samuel Norton, but that appears to be you.
There were 37 MLS and MLS Next pro players in the 2022 World Cup.
No offense and it’s nothing personal but we’re not buddies, we’ve never met. Is there a “bro”in there somewhere too?
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1pm home game for Marquette Men’s Soccer. (92 RPI) And it’s a big one vs Georgetown. (5 RPI)
Georgetown 2 Marquette 1
Big East Title for Georgetown.
32nd goal was a set piece corner, near post run Zengue to Jennings.
73rd minute goal was a nice end run hustle play from Viera to Murrell for his 11th. 7 defenders in the box. 5 were caught ball watchin’.
MU got one back in the 76th minute. Danis was rewarded for a back post run on a too high near post service from Marquez who took a ball in space right side of the box.
But it wasn’t enough. Fun game.
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Keep movin’ those goalposts.
And here I thought someone else was the most obtuse poster since Warden Samuel Norton, but that appears to be you.
There were 37 MLS and MLS Next pro players in the 2022 World Cup.
No offense and it’s nothing personal but we’re not buddies, we’ve never met. Is there a “bro”in there somewhere too?
It’s a patronizing buddy. And you’re shifting the goalposts. I’m talking about how college soccer negatively influenced us soccer development and you’re talking about mls and WC involvement.
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It’s a patronizing buddy. And you’re shifting the goalposts. I’m talking about how college soccer negatively influenced us soccer development and you’re talking about mls and WC involvement.
Pulls names out of a hat. Picks one at random.
Aaron Heard. Who is Aaron Heard? Aaron is from Fairfax, VA, Played at Bethesda and Philly Union Academies before playing with St. Louis City Academy and St. Louis City 2. Aaron has played for the USYNT in multiple age groups.
A few of his teammates have signed MLS homegrown and play professionally. One is 17, one is 16. Both have played with MLS first team. A few of his teammates are college soccer commits. A few were college soccer All Americans. A few played internationally. It’s all a mix of different types of players with different paths.
Aaron hasn’t signed a homegrown deal yet in part because he has been looking at European options and he’s still deciding. He’s 16. He’s jut one small example of how it works.
Did college soccer hinder the development of (picks random player here) Tim Ream? I can 100% guarantee you he’d tell you no. And so would many others.
You don’t get it because you aren’t interested in getting it. College isn’t blocking anyone’s path. There are a lot of paths. College gives one of several viable development options for soccer players which include soccer at the U.S. National Team level, various international and domestic levels.
Do you think Eleanor Dale will get her 24th goal tomorrow when her Nebraska team hosts Ohio State? How many goals do you think she can get to this year? What a season for her. Such a baller.
Again, maybe start a new thread and take it there.
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Did college soccer hinder the development of (picks random player here) Tim Ream? I can 100% guarantee you he’d tell you no. And so would many others.
I don’t disagree with you, as I alluded to in my post, I think there is a definite benefit and path through college soccer for a “later developing” elite player. But I would be curious, in a purely hypothetical sense, if guys like Ream, Brian McBride, Claudio Reyna, Brad Friedel (who all ended up in Europe fairly young after playing college soccer) would still have went the NCAA path in current time, given the more developed pipeline to higher level soccer abroad. I’d think no, but it’s still interesting to think about…and also has no bearing on the value/validity of the college path as it currently stands
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Pulls names out of a hat. Picks one at random.
Aaron Heard. Who is Aaron Heard? Aaron is from Fairfax, VA, Played at Bethesda and Philly Union Academies before playing with St. Louis City Academy and St. Louis City 2. Aaron has played for the USYNT in multiple age groups.
A few of his teammates have signed MLS homegrown and play professionally. One is 17, one is 16. Both have played with MLS first team. A few of his teammates are college soccer commits. A few were college soccer All Americans. A few played internationally. It’s all a mix of different types of players with different paths.
Aaron hasn’t signed a homegrown deal yet in part because he has been looking at European options and he’s still deciding. He’s 16. He’s jut one small example of how it works.
Did college soccer hinder the development of (picks random player here) Tim Ream? I can 100% guarantee you he’d tell you no. And so would many others.
You don’t get it because you aren’t interested in getting it. College isn’t blocking anyone’s path. There are a lot of paths. College gives one of several viable development options for soccer players which include soccer at the U.S. National Team level, various international and domestic levels.
Do you think Eleanor Dale will get her 24th goal tomorrow when her Nebraska team hosts Ohio State? How many goals do you think she can get to this year? What a season for her. Such a baller.
Again, maybe start a new thread and take it there.
Tim ream lol. You couldn’t pick a worse candidate. The guy grinded his way through England making a name for himself in the championship before grinding yet again to become a stalwart at Fulham in the prem and with the usmnt in his late 30’s. Just think if he wasn’t hamstrung playing college soccer for four years…..
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I don’t disagree with you, as I alluded to in my post, I think there is a definite benefit and path through college soccer for a “later developing” elite player. But I would be curious, in a purely hypothetical sense, if guys like Ream, Brian McBride, Claudio Reyna, Brad Friedel (who all ended up in Europe fairly young after playing college soccer) would still have went the NCAA path in current time, given the more developed pipeline to higher level soccer abroad. I’d think no, but it’s still interesting to think about…and also has no bearing on the value/validity of the college path as it currently stands
Everyone takes a different path. Patrick Schulte even did a stint at Feyenoord Academy in Rotterdam. But he was and he is comfortable with his path of Academy, College, MLS Pro, MLS, Olympic Team, even though he had other international options too. etc…
Ream played college, MLS, then he signed with Bolton and eventually Fulham.
Josh Sargent who attended the same high school as Tim Ream, chose Academy and various domestic and international stints before signing with Werder Bremen at age 18. He then eventually moved over to Norwich City. He’s 23.
Happy to have a brief exchange about college viability. It’s viable. This thread will mostly be about enjoying college soccer in and of itself for the most part.
I am 100% not a Men’s only, top few Euro League and US National team soccer person. I am 100% aware that’s a thing with a certain segment of the population throughout the states.
I would encourage any other additional discussion to take place on either a new thread or the other soccer thread.
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Tim ream lol. You couldn’t pick a worse candidate. The guy grinded his way through England making a name for himself in the championship before grinding yet again to become a stalwart at Fulham in the prem and with the usmnt in his late 30’s. Just think if he wasn’t hamstrung playing college soccer for four years…..
Lol. Nope. Thanks. I needed the laugh.
Matt Turner, Fairfield University, MLS, Arsenal,’Nottingham Forest.
I’ll start you a new thread.
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Lol. Nope. Thanks. I needed the laugh.
Matt Turner, Fairfield University, MLS, Arsenal,’Nottingham Forest.
I’ll start you a new thread.
Knew that was coming. Now do any outfield player other than ream who clearly grew immensely as a player later in his career playing in England.
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Knew that was coming. Now do any outfield player other than ream who clearly grew immensely as a player later in his career playing in England.
Lol. You’re not good at this.
Start a new thread.
Big win for Columbia Women’s Soccer today. Lock city now for NCAA Tourney. The Ivy will have 4 teams.
MU Men’s Soccer RPI is now sitting at 92 after another missed opportunity.
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Josh Sargent who attended the same high school as Tim Ream, chose Academy and various domestic and international stints before signing with Werder Bremen at age 18. He then eventually moved over to Norwich City. He’s 23.
Sargent is kind of my point. He would have played in college like McBride or Reyna, if not a brief MLS stint, back then. But he was able to take advantage of the development of US soccer in a more global sense.
And with all due respect to Schulte, who is progressing nicely and has a real chance to move up levels professionally with another few good years in MLS (like Turner), he’s not playing college soccer if he had realistic high level international professional options. Nobody who is playing in the third tier of US at 21 is doing so instead of playing in a solid European league.
Again, not an indictment of college soccer, which by and large serves a wholly different purpose than professional soccer. It’s like watching college basketball. You do it for the enjoyment of the college game and not as a minor league feeder for the NBA, especially as it’s moved farther and farther away from that than 25 years ago.
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Sargent is kind of my point. He would have played in college like McBride or Reyna, if not a brief MLS stint, back then. But he was able to take advantage of the development of US soccer in a more global sense.
And with all due respect to Schulte, who is progressing nicely and has a real chance to move up levels professionally with another few good years in MLS (like Turner), he’s not playing college soccer if he had realistic high level international professional options. Nobody who is playing in the third tier of US at 21 is doing so instead of playing in a solid European league.
Again, not an indictment of college soccer, which by and large serves a wholly different purpose than professional soccer. It’s like watching college basketball. You do it for the enjoyment of the college game and not as a minor league feeder for the NBA, especially as it’s moved farther and farther away from that than 25 years ago.
I enjoy college soccer in and of itself as well as that it happens to also be a viable developmental pathway for players to go on and play professionally at al levels. You seem to be implying (incorrectly) that some professional players developed in spite of college, as if that doesn’t count as part of their developmental pathway process, to professional soccer.
This will be my final post on that topic in this thread. Feel free to start a new thread and take it there.
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I enjoy college soccer in and of itself as well as that it happens to also be a viable developmental pathway for players to go on and play professionally at al levels. You seem to be implying (incorrectly) that some professional players developed in spite of college, as if that doesn’t count as part of their developmental pathway process, to professional soccer.
This will be my final post on that topic in this thread. Feel free to start a new thread and take it there.
Where did I ever imply that? I said its a viable developmental pathway for players who are not yet ready to be full on professionals at a high level. I never said anything about "in spite of".
I think there is a distinction of
A) a young player who college is a good choice/viable developmental pathway for.
And
B) those who are better served developing at a higher level (professionally, either domestically or abroad) because they won't gain much from the lower NCAA competition, comparatively.
And that has changed in the last 20+ years cause the options for B weren't readily available or as common as they are now, so they ended up playing college soccer which worked for them.
Not sure why you're shutting down a reasonable, in good faith (at least from me) discussion, which is actually about college soccer, to keep the thread only to updates about Ivy League college soccer or random B10 scoring leaders for an audience of just yourself? Its a discussion board, not a Twitter feed.
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Where did I ever imply that? I said its a viable developmental pathway for players who are not yet ready to be full on professionals at a high level. I never said anything about "in spite of".
I think there is a distinction of
A) a young player who college is a good choice/viable developmental pathway for.
And
B) those who are better served developing at a higher level (professionally, either domestically or abroad) because they won't gain much from the lower NCAA competition, comparatively.
And that has changed in the last 20+ years cause the options for B weren't readily available or as common as they are now, so they ended up playing college soccer which worked for them.
Not sure why you're shutting down a reasonable, in good faith (at least from me) discussion, which is actually about college soccer, to keep the thread only to updates about Ivy League college soccer or random B10 scoring leaders for an audience of just yourself? Its a discussion board, not a Twitter feed.
Discussion moved. Take it there.
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Totally fine to enjoy and appreciate college soccer for what it is. But don’t try and convince me it’s somehow a great place for development for our 18-22 year old talents. There are much better opportunities elsewhere.
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And that will do it for the MU Women’s Soccer Season. Mentioned the opportunity to make something happen in their last 3 games against good teams. Final scores of those games were a combined 3 losses of 11-0. Ouch. Year 5 for Frank P next year.
Xavier and Georgetown are co champions, with X getting the 1 seed for the conference tourney. Nate Lie was a strong hire for them as he has had them as an annual top 25 caliber program the past 5 years, after inheriting a mess. UConn is a bubble team. They will probably need to get wins over Butler and Georgetown in the conference tourney to get an invite.
Final Big East Women’s Soccer Standings:
Xavier
Georgetown
UConn
Providence
St. John’s
Butler
Seton Hall
DePaul
Marquette
Creighton
Villanova.
…………………..
Xavier and Georgetown are locks. UConn, Providence, St. John’s are on the bubble, but have some work to do. Top 2 get byes. UConn v Butler, Providence v St. John’s, on Sunday.
………………….
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Georgetown 2 Marquette 1
Big East Title for Georgetown.
32nd goal was a set piece corner, near post run Zengue to Jennings.
73rd minute goal was a nice end run hustle play from Viera to Murrell for his 11th. 7 defenders in the box. 5 were caught ball watchin’.
MU got one back in the 76th minute. Danis was rewarded for a back post run on a too high near post service from Marquez who took a ball in space right side of the box.
But it wasn’t enough. Fun game.
Big East Final Standings:
Georgetown
Xavier
Providence
St. John’s
UConn
Creighton
Akron
Seton Hall
……………..
DePaul
Villanova
Marquette
Top 8 make the conference tourney. 5 bubble teams. Georgetown is the only lock.
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https://x.com/nicberardi/status/1712887933991055584?s=20
Interesting take on college soccer from a respected online journalist.
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https://x.com/nicberardi/status/1712887933991055584?s=20
Interesting take on college soccer from a respected online journalist.
Nico berardi?
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Nico berardi?
He got embarrassed so he’s desperate and chasing doing random twitter searches which is kind of sad. In order to get that result, he went to Twitter and he typed in “College Soccer is terrible.” It’s the very first result, when you click on “latest,” some random post, from some random person, a few weeks back. That will tell you all you need to know.
I would ask kindly if you would take it to the other thread though and leave this one for college soccer that’d be great. Thanks. I’m happy to post over there too.
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Pulls names out of a hat. Picks one at random.
Aaron Heard. Who is Aaron Heard? Aaron is from Fairfax, VA, Played at Bethesda and Philly Union Academies before playing with St. Louis City Academy and St. Louis City 2. Aaron has played for the USYNT in multiple age groups.
A few of his teammates have signed MLS homegrown and play professionally. One is 17, one is 16. Both have played with MLS first team. A few of his teammates are college soccer commits. A few were college soccer All Americans. A few played internationally. It’s all a mix of different types of players with different paths.
Aaron hasn’t signed a homegrown deal yet in part because he has been looking at European options and he’s still deciding. He’s 16. He’s jut one small example of how it works.
Did college soccer hinder the development of (picks random player here) Tim Ream? I can 100% guarantee you he’d tell you no. And so would many others.
You don’t get it because you aren’t interested in getting it. College isn’t blocking anyone’s path. There are a lot of paths. College gives one of several viable development options for soccer players which include soccer at the U.S. National Team level, various international and domestic levels.
Do you think Eleanor Dale will get her 24th goal tomorrow when her Nebraska team hosts Ohio State? How many goals do you think she can get to this year? What a season for her. Such a baller.
Again, maybe start a new thread and take it there.
Of course she did. 2 more for Eleanor Dale as she leads the country with 25 goals and moves her team to the Big Ten Conference Tourney Semifinals.
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Nico berardi?
If I had to pick one reporter synonymous with covering college soccer and the ins and outs of the industry, it’s Berardi first second and third before I would even consider naming anyone else.
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He got embarrassed so he’s desperate and chasing doing random twitter searches which is kind of sad. In order to get that result, he went to Twitter and he typed in “College Soccer is terrible.” It’s the very first result, when you click on “latest,” some random post, from some random person, a few weeks back. That will tell you all you need to know.
I would ask kindly if you would take it to the other thread though and leave this one for college soccer that’d be great. Thanks. I’m happy to post over there too.
Idk man - if you pay attention to college soccer, it’s hard to miss Nico. He’s the Fanta of university footy.
Hoping to hear more success stories from you. Anymore USL all stars for me ?
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If I had to pick one reporter synonymous with covering college soccer and the ins and outs of the industry, it’s Berardi first second and third before I would even consider naming anyone else.
Can you link me to something of his? Cause all I see on Google search are some references to some guy who went to Harvard business
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Can you link me to something of his? Cause all I see on Google search are some references to some guy who went to Harvard business
Buddy I really can’t help you if you don’t understand the magnitude of Berardi. I can’t do all of your light lifting.
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It brings me no joy bringing this up, but yet another titan of soccer journalism weighs in on the developmental signifance of soccer at the university level.
https://x.com/boldesttruth/status/1628163938138439688?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
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What's going on with MU men's and women's soccer? A shadow of what they once were.
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It brings me no joy bringing this up, but yet another titan of soccer journalism weighs in on the developmental signifance of soccer at the university level.
https://x.com/boldesttruth/status/1628163938138439688?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
Not saying he's wrong or right, but the dude has 86 followers after nearly 10 years on Twitter. Not much of a titan.
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Not saying he's wrong or right, but the dude has 86 followers after nearly 10 years on Twitter. Not much of a titan.
That must be his old account. He has at least 200 followers on his new one. He’s been a college soccer stalwart for eons.
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Not saying he's wrong or right, but the dude has 86 followers after nearly 10 years on Twitter. Not much of a titan.
Several people initially engaged in the discussion in good faith including Panda. Once Panda was struggling in the discussion, he tried to save face by pretending he was trolling all along. That’s why he posted a 2nd random twitter person, to say see guys it was all a joke. It gives him an out to try to save face and to not be embarrassed about his Nico post among others. That’s why he’s chasing in different threads.
And there is also sometimes a common but incorrect misnomer that recipients of trolls somehow look worse than the people that have to troll in the first place. That’s on them.
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What's going on with MU men's and women's soccer? A shadow of what they once were.
That’s a good question. Come for the short answer. Stay for the longer answer. The short answer is MU doesn’t care enough about having more competitive soccer programs in my opinion. And it’s important to note that Men’s and Women’s Soccer are apples and oranges with regards to their landscape. I’ll give you a more detailed response when I get a chance in a little bit.
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Several people initially engaged in the discussion in good faith including Panda. Once Panda was struggling in the discussion, he tried to save face by pretending he was trolling all along. That’s why he posted a 2nd random twitter person, to say see guys it was all a joke. It gives him an out to try to save face and to not be embarrassed about his Nico post among others. That’s why he’s chasing in different threads.
And there is also sometimes a common but incorrect misnomer that recipients of trolls somehow look worse than the people that have to troll in the first place. That’s on them.
Trolling? What are you talking about? I try and engage in a genuine discussion and this is what you accuse me of ? How dare you.
Still waiting to hear the countless names of college soccer players who logged minutes last year in the big four leagues in europe last year.
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Trolling? What are you talking about? I try and engage in a genuine discussion and this is what you accuse me of ? How dare you.
Still waiting to hear the countless names of college soccer players who logged minutes last year in the big four leagues in europe last year.
Fear not folks - I have the answer for you. Jack Harrison and Matt Turner. Harrison is extremely unique as he left Manchester United’s academy because his mom, strapped for cash, wanted him on a full academic scholarship at a big time prep school here. So without an unfortunate economic situation, he probably doesn’t spend the one year in college. So Matt Turner is your answer...
There you have it sports fans.
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What's going on with MU men's and women's soccer? A shadow of what they once were.
The Marquette Women’s program has been the much more successful program historically than the Men. So, let’s begin there.
Under Markus Roeders, Marquette was one of several programs to begin play and/or elevate their program in the mid 1990’s. 13 NCAA’s in 24 seasons, but it you look more closely it was 12 of 15 in the middle. It took a few years to get it going, and it faded the last several years. Snd MU was essentially an NCAA 1st or 2nd round type of program during much of that time. 3 3rd rounds.
Hideki Nakata was an assistant during the highest success stretch of the program in that middle period. He left to be an assistant for Kat Mertz for a year at Oregon, then 7 at Stanford before becoming the Head Coach at Utah. Frank Pelaez, the current head coach was a previous long time assistant. But he left in those final 5 years of Roeders to help Loyola Chicago become a dominant MVC program. When the MU job opened, some hoped for Nakata but he was going to have some Power 5 opportunities , and unlike the Men’s game, it’s a much bigger thing in Women’s Soccer.
MU went with the familiarity of Peleaz and his past recruiting success as an MU assistant as well as at Loyola.
Leagues are changing fast. Prior to the most recent changes, The Big East has been roughly the 9th best league, in the 2nd tier of 6-9 but closer to 9. The goal of the Big East would be to keep and support its successful head coaches (DePaul coach left for Minnesota recently, and to raise the floor of the bottom of the league. Then you want to make it more than a 2 team league. By this I mean Georgetown and Xavier are the 2 annual NCAA teams right now. Neither has an exceptionally large budget/operating expenses/salary etc…by any means, compared to say Wisconsin, which does.
Xavier made a good coaching hire and then hired 2 good assistants. You need a good head coach and at least 1 good assistant to be competitive with recruiting etc…So for MU they need Peleaz and a good recruiting assistant. They have a newer one at the moment. Paul Sikinger is a bit green with regards to college work, 2nd year, and he came from FC Wisconsin youth program. He needs some time. FC Wisconsin and SC Wave are the 2 highest profile local youth club programs for girls in SE Wisconsin.
A good approach would be an inside out approach of state, region, national, international. MU spends a lot of time recruiting in Chicago and they should, and elsewhere in the region.
Women’s Soccer gets 14 full scholarships, and these are often combined with academic and others types of scholarships to get as many good players as close to a full as you can.
Getting MU to be more successful, and to get back to being an almost annual NCAA team is a doable challenge. Beyond that, requires being able to go toe to toe with more Power 5 schools in recruiting and with some other things. Ceiling would be once in a while Sweet 16. Floor would be make NCAA Tourney. There is a group of non-Power schools out there that have and are establishing themselves as soccer powers. These are the Santa Clara types. MU will need to recruit and coach up good players, re-establish as an NCAA team, and then they would have more of a chance to elevate recruiting at thar point. Right now, they have a largely recruiting identity head coach based on his historical work.
It’s helpful to have and build an identity, a strong culture as a program. MU doesn’t have as much of this established as some other programs. Being organized, efficient, disciplined.
Have the support of the University, boosters, etc…be competitive with facilities, budgets, travel, staff salary, etc….especially when things come up from time to time.
Power 5 schools sell Power 5. They sell football, yes, football, and they will take recruits on the field at 90k football games. Many will have and use indoor football practice facilities when needed, and they will sell a niche in a large school experience. They sell charter flights when needed. Many are located in geographies where this is necessary. They sell international team trips every few years. All kinds of things.
Wisconsin was able to lure a great coach away from Penn State during Marquette’s good NCAA run. They have a strong program. They recruit nationally. Northwestern also developed a strong program in the region when they were not competitive prior to that, and they did it with a Milwaukee person. They even added a 2nd good assistant in recent years. They sell academics. Many of the better programs have very strong academics as a destination. So you also have some other programs that improved and developed as increased regional competition.
This will give you a good start re: MU Women’s
Soccer. I can follow up and get to the Men when I get a chance.
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Fear not folks - I have the answer for you. Jack Harrison and Matt Turner. Harrison is extremely unique as he left Manchester United’s academy because his mom, strapped for cash, wanted him on a full academic scholarship at a big time prep school here. So without an unfortunate economic situation, he probably doesn’t spend the one year in college. So Matt Turner is your answer...
There you have it sports fans.
Could it be you have the cause and effect mixed up? That there aren't former college players in the big four leagues because the more talented players just skip college altogether, and not because the college game doesn't develop them enough?
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Could it be you have the cause and effect mixed up? That there aren't former college players in the big four leagues because the more talented players just skip college altogether, and not because the college game doesn't develop them enough?
You're correct as it stands currently. The days of Clint Dempsey or Oguchi Onyewu leaving college to play in Europe are over. The american player stigma that existed forever in Europe is gone. The best players in America are going pro right when they turn 18 or earlier if they can secure a passport through family lineage.
My original point was that college soccer ruins the depth of our national team pool because it halts the development of many 18-22 year olds. Instead of training and playing professionally like the rest of the world, they're stuck playing like 18 games with strict NCAA limits on practice time. I think that if the majority of our talent that is not leaving for europe when they turn 18 played pro (Hello growth of USL), instead of wasting valuable developmental years playing low quality college soccer, the depths of our national team would grow stronger.
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The Marquette Women’s program has been the much more successful program historically than the Men. So, let’s begin there.
Under Markus Roeders, Marquette was one of several programs to begin play and/or elevate their program in the mid 1990’s. 13 NCAA’s in 24 seasons, but it you look more closely it was 12 of 15 in the middle. It took a few years to get it going, and it faded the last several years. Snd MU was essentially an NCAA 1st or 2nd round type of program during much of that time. 3 3rd rounds.
Hideki Nakata was an assistant during the highest success stretch of the program in that middle period. He left to be an assistant for Kat Mertz for a year at Oregon, then 7 at Stanford before becoming the Head Coach at Utah. Frank Pelaez, the current head coach was a previous long time assistant. But he left in those final 5 years of Roeders to help Loyola Chicago become a dominant MVC program. When the MU job opened, some hoped for Nakata but he was going to have some Power 5 opportunities , and unlike the Men’s game, it’s a much bigger thing in Women’s Soccer.
MU went with the familiarity of Peleaz and his past recruiting success as an MU assistant as well as at Loyola.
Leagues are changing fast. Prior to the most recent changes, The Big East has been roughly the 9th best league, in the 2nd tier of 6-9 but closer to 9. The goal of the Big East would be to keep and support its successful head coaches (DePaul coach left for Minnesota recently, and to raise the floor of the bottom of the league. Then you want to make it more than a 2 team league. By this I mean Georgetown and Xavier are the 2 annual NCAA teams right now. Neither has an exceptionally large budget/operating expenses/salary etc…by any means, compared to say Wisconsin, which does.
Xavier made a good coaching hire and then hired 2 good assistants. You need a good head coach and at least 1 good assistant to be competitive with recruiting etc…So for MU they need Peleaz and a good recruiting assistant. They have a newer one at the moment. Paul Sikinger is a bit green with regards to college work, 2nd year, and he came from FC Wisconsin youth program. He needs some time. FC Wisconsin and SC Wave are the 2 highest profile local youth club programs for girls in SE Wisconsin.
A good approach would be an inside out approach of state, region, national, international. MU spends a lot of time recruiting in Chicago and they should, and elsewhere in the region.
Women’s Soccer gets 14 full scholarships, and these are often combined with academic and others types of scholarships to get as many good players as close to a full as you can.
Getting MU to be more successful, and to get back to being an almost annual NCAA team is a doable challenge. Beyond that, requires being able to go toe to toe with more Power 5 schools in recruiting and with some other things. Ceiling would be once in a while Sweet 16. Floor would be make NCAA Tourney. There is a group of non-Power schools out there that have and are establishing themselves as soccer powers. These are the Santa Clara types. MU will need to recruit and coach up good players, re-establish as an NCAA team, and then they would have more of a chance to elevate recruiting at thar point. Right now, they have a largely recruiting identity head coach based on his historical work.
It’s helpful to have and build an identity, a strong culture as a program. MU doesn’t have as much of this established as some other programs. Being organized, efficient, disciplined.
Have the support of the University, boosters, etc…be competitive with facilities, budgets, travel, staff salary, etc….especially when things come up from time to time.
Power 5 schools sell Power 5. They sell football, yes, football, and they will take recruits on the field at 90k football games. Many will have and use indoor football practice facilities when needed, and they will sell a niche in a large school experience. They sell charter flights when needed. Many are located in geographies where this is necessary. They sell international team trips every few years. All kinds of things.
Wisconsin was able to lure a great coach away from Penn State during Marquette’s good NCAA run. They have a strong program. They recruit nationally. Northwestern also developed a strong program in the region when they were not competitive prior to that, and they did it with a Milwaukee person. They even added a 2nd good assistant in recent years. They sell academics. Many of the better programs have very strong academics as a destination. So you also have some other programs that improved and developed as increased regional competition.
This will give you a good start re: MU Women’s
Soccer. I can follow up and get to the Men when I get a chance.
Another thing I recommend is watching some of the better programs or more attractive styles of play to get an understanding of the landscape.
If you have ESPN Plus the BYU Cougars play tonight, so does Texas. They have two of the better attacks nationally. It’s even better when they will play at home in the NCAA Tourney. Tonight is part of the. Ig 12 Tourney in Austin.
Anyway, the Cougs play a 4-4/2 diamond. They get good spacing, and they play through their central defensive midfielder (Shepherd) through its wings (Mozingo, Bailey) to Katoa, Fryer. And Vaka makes plays in back.
This will give you a snapshot of the pace, size, physicality, technical ability, level for other teams to which to aspire.
If you don’t have ESPN Plus, SEC Network, ESPNU, ACC Network, Big Ten Network, etc…all have their conference tourneys going this week and next week.
And yes FloSports is a negative in recruiting. It doesn’t help if potential recruiting targets can’t watch games. Most recruiting targets have access to ESPN Plus.
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Louis Bennett "stepping away" from MU Men's Soccer.
https://gomarquette.com/news/2023/11/1/louis-bennett-stepping-away-from-mens-soccer-program
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Louis Bennett "stepping away" from MU Men's Soccer.
https://gomarquette.com/news/2023/11/1/louis-bennett-stepping-away-from-mens-soccer-program
Yep. This is why I wanted to wait before answering the above inquiry about the MU Men’s Soccer program.
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Statement from Bennett:
After nearly 30 years, 18 at Marquette, it's time to step away from college soccer," Bennett said. "I've been fortunate to have the privilege to work with so many quality young men and colleagues, thoroughly enjoying the ups and downs of the crazy, beautiful game of soccer in the academic setting. Unfortunately, College Soccer is not conducive to developing players, so I am going to coach in Europe."
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Statement from Bennett:
After nearly 30 years, 18 at Marquette, it's time to step away from college soccer," Bennett said. "I've been fortunate to have the privilege to work with so many quality young men and colleagues, thoroughly enjoying the ups and downs of the crazy, beautiful game of soccer in the academic setting. Unfortunately, College Soccer is not conducive to developing players, so I am going to coach in Europe."
That’s funny because I heard that too
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Interesting take from one of our neighbors to the south on college soccer. Manuel has always offered reasonable takes in the age of shock opinions.
https://x.com/elpibevv/status/1713584577355325695?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
also I cant say this isn’t slightly biased but good to hear from the low country from time to time.
https://x.com/rjnhuskies/status/1700656617211973716?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
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Interesting take from one of our neighbors to the south on college soccer. Manuel has always offered reasonable takes in the age of shock opinions.
https://x.com/elpibevv/status/1713584577355325695?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
also I cant say this isn’t slightly biased but good to hear from the low country from time to time.
https://x.com/rjnhuskies/status/1700656617211973716?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
The post by rjnhuskies is spot on. Basketball development in this country is terrible and why we’re seeing the best in the world come from foreign nations. College basketball, save a few exceptions, is not a place where top talent is getting developed. Grassroots development is about assembling talent, not developing it.
I won’t speak on soccer, but I don’t doubt that’s the case either. Once women’s soccer internationally gets on the level of men’s soccer, I’ll be curious how successful the USA remains in international play
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The post by rjnhuskies is spot on. Basketball development in this country is terrible and why we’re seeing the best in the world come from foreign nations. College basketball, save a few exceptions, is not a place where top talent is getting developed. Grassroots development is about assembling talent, not developing it.
I won’t speak on soccer, but I don’t doubt that’s the case either. Once women’s soccer internationally gets on the level of men’s soccer, I’ll be curious how successful the USA remains in international play
Women’s soccer is the canary in the coal mine. USA dominates before most traditional soccer countries acknowledge women can play the game. Then in the last ten years, those traditional countries begin developing players through academies and results are beginning to show. Will be interesting to watch.
I also believe we’ll see even more foreign players dominating in the nba because of the early introduction to professionalism abroad. What do you think about the hoops aspect uncle Rico ?
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Women’s soccer is the canary in the coal mine. USA dominates before most traditional soccer countries acknowledge women can play the game. Then in the last ten years, those traditional countries begin developing players through academies and results are beginning to show. Will be interesting to watch.
I also believe we’ll see even more foreign players dominating in the nba because of the early introduction to professionalism abroad. What do you think about the hoops aspect uncle Rico ?
I agree with the basketball part and tend to think women internationally will erode American soccer dominance
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Interesting conversation between two American World Cup players, Herc Gomez and Omar Gonzalez, on youth player development for US players. Conversation starts around 10 minutes.
https://x.com/herculezg/status/1720547397225582609?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
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And that will do it for the MU Women’s Soccer Season. Mentioned the opportunity to make something happen in their last 3 games against good teams. Final scores of those games were a combined 3 losses of 11-0. Ouch. Year 5 for Frank P next year.
Xavier and Georgetown are co champions, with X getting the 1 seed for the conference tourney. Nate Lie was a strong hire for them as he has had them as an annual top 25 caliber program the past 5 years, after inheriting a mess. UConn is a bubble team. They will probably need to get wins over Butler and Georgetown in the conference tourney to get an invite.
Another exciting week of conference tourneys in the books for Women’s Soccer.
Despite being outplayed for much of the game for a 2nd time, Georgetown has claimed the Big East Tourney Title over Xavier. Both of those teams along with Providence will represent the Big East in the NCAA Tourney. UConn was unable to make it in off of the bubble.
NCAA Women’s Tourney begins this weekend. Georgetown received a #3 and they will host Old Dominion. (upset league winner over James Madison. Both made the tourney). And Xavier is a 4 seed. They will host Tennessee in a rematch of last year’s NCAA 1st round game which X won in OT.
2023 NCAA bracket:
https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/soccer-women/d1/2023
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(https://imgb.ifunny.co/images/cfcaf2247f2009ca1e2eff6087dfe2f978e3234bf860463c606341ac586e0d6e_1.jpg)
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Women’s College Coaching Carousel has changes at Creighton, Purdue, Miami FL, Boston College among others.
An interesting one is Marisa Kresge surprisingly is out after just 2 struggling seasons at Illinois State. The former Badger player and assistant was a high level recruiter at Wisconsin in recent years)
Speaking of the Badgers, they will host Milwaukee in an NCAA 1st Round game. Good season for the Panthers, as Kevin Boyd’s program makes the NCAA’s in jist his 2nd season. Coaches change but success continues at UWM. Troy Fabiano may have Kentucky in the NCAA Tourney by his 3rd season next year. Michael Moynihan has had some good, if uneven success at Northwestern. (that’s the previous 24 years at UWM)
And the Badgers have been good most of the 17 seasons under Paula Wilkins.
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(https://imgb.ifunny.co/images/cfcaf2247f2009ca1e2eff6087dfe2f978e3234bf860463c606341ac586e0d6e_1.jpg)
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The post by rjnhuskies is spot on. Basketball development in this country is terrible and why we’re seeing the best in the world come from foreign nations. College basketball, save a few exceptions, is not a place where top talent is getting developed. Grassroots development is about assembling talent, not developing it.
I won’t speak on soccer, but I don’t doubt that’s the case either. Once women’s soccer internationally gets on the level of men’s soccer, I’ll be curious how successful the USA remains in international play
Right, because no college coach's job is dependent on developing players into good pros three years after they leave school. The job is dependent on winning now. So, there's no incentive for college coaches to prioritize that. Even programs that take a longer-term approach toward player development - Marquette under Shaka, for example - the goal remains winning college games, not developing future pros.
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Right, because no college coach's job is dependent on developing players into good pros three years after they leave school. The job is dependent on winning now. So, there's no incentive for college coaches to prioritize that. Even programs that take a longer-term approach toward player development - Marquette under Shaka, for example - the goal remains winning college games, not developing future pros.
Let’s take professional pathways to the professional pathways thread. This is not a professional pathway thread. Thanks.
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Another exciting week of conference tourneys in the books for Women’s Soccer.
Despite being outplayed for much of the game for a 2nd time, Georgetown has claimed the Big East Tourney Title over Xavier. Both of those teams along with Providence will represent the Big East in the NCAA Tourney. UConn was unable to make it in off of the bubble.
NCAA Women’s Tourney begins this weekend. Georgetown received a #3 and they will host Old Dominion. (upset league winner over James Madison. Both made the tourney). And Xavier is a 4 seed. They will host Tennessee in a rematch of last year’s NCAA 1st round game which X won in OT.
2023 NCAA bracket:
https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/soccer-women/d1/2023
The inconsistency of the selection and seeding process can be i proved by seed all 64 teams instead of just 32 teams. This won’t solve the Power 5 bias problem. South Alabama was a deserving team, RPI 27, good season. But they were left out. Some other seeds were off too.
And the lack ot rhyme or reason to some first round matchups. Geography here but not there. RPI here but not there etc….
So as fun as it is, there is still room for some adjustments.
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Right, because no college coach's job is dependent on developing players into good pros three years after they leave school. The job is dependent on winning now. So, there's no incentive for college coaches to prioritize that. Even programs that take a longer-term approach toward player development - Marquette under Shaka, for example - the goal remains winning college games, not developing future pros.
An interesting conundrum. Selfishly I enjoy college athletics. However is it best for the development of our young athletes? Under the current structure, I’d say no. But the flexibility to change seems limited on the basketball level. Soccer is beginning to install different infrastructure early on for that change.
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The inconsistency of the selection and seeding process can be i proved by seed all 64 teams instead of just 32 teams. This won’t solve the Power 5 bias problem. South Alabama was a deserving team, RPI 27, good season. But they were left out. Some other seeds were off too.
And the lack ot rhyme or reason to some first round matchups. Geography here but not there. RPI here but not there etc….
So as fun as it is, there is still room for some adjustments.
(https://imgb.ifunny.co/images/cfcaf2247f2009ca1e2eff6087dfe2f978e3234bf860463c606341ac586e0d6e_1.jpg)
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Right, because no college coach's job is dependent on developing players into good pros three years after they leave school. The job is dependent on winning now. So, there's no incentive for college coaches to prioritize that. Even programs that take a longer-term approach toward player development - Marquette under Shaka, for example - the goal remains winning college games, not developing future pros.
That’s why I laugh when people suggest kids should stay in school to develop their game for the NBA
That was the line for Ethan Happ at Madison. Like Greg Gurd was changing how he ran offense to get Happ ready for the NBA
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That’s why I laugh when people suggest kids should stay in school to develop their game for the NBA
That was the line for Ethan Happ at Madison. Like Greg Gurd was changing how he ran offense to get Happ ready for the NBA
Agree - I’d have a lot more respect for those fans if they simply said, “player x should stick around because my favorite team will be awesome with him next year” instead of some bogus development claims.
I would’ve loved omax to come back this year because this team would rule with him, but he’s not getting any better playing against competition which is beneath him at this stage in his development.
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Xavier Women’s Soccer Coach Nate Lie is leaving to take the same position at Kansas. Tough one for Xavier.
Very successful and popular coach. 7 seasons at a challenging place to win. He built a lot. 4 of last 5 NCAA Tourneys, only missing during COVID season. 3 regular season Big East Titles. 1 Conference Tourney Title. They along with Georgetown have been the two annual NCAA teams in the league, top 25 etc…..
Xavier offers very little in terms of resources, for its program. KU is a middle tier Power 5 program. But their budgets, compensation, facilities. etc….are all at least double that of Xavier. Nate Lie went from taking a long bus ride recently to the Big East Conference Tourney in DC, to flying his family private via KU for his hiring.
Tyler Smaha may go with him to KU. Not sure about Katy Etelman.
Prior to this, Lie played and coached his entire career in Ohio at Miami and Cincinnati.
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David Korn is the new Marquette Men’s Soccer Head Coach.
He was most recently the HC at Maryville University (D2) for 8 seasons, 6 NCAA Tourneys. 3 NCAA Quarterfinals.
He spent a year at SIUE, 3 as an assistant at Wright State. 3 as an assistant at Denver. 1 as an assistant at Lafayette.
Some Influences:
He took the Bobby Muuss/Jay Vidovich (Wake Forest) path at Denver and he worked under Muuss.
The head coach at Wright State at the time is from Milwaukee. (Bryan Davis)
There are several other local and regional connections as well.
https://maryvillesaints.com/news/2023/12/11/mens-soccer-korn-accepts-head-coach-position-at-marquette-university.aspx
https://gomarquette.com/news/2023/12/11/david-korn-named-marquette-mens-soccer-coach
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Frank Pelaez is stepping down as Marquette Women’s Soccer Head Coach effective immediately. It’s been almost 2 months since the season ended. So, the timing is unusual and slow/late. The College
Cup Final Four for example, is a common time to announce a new HC.
He returned to Marquette as HC for 4 seasons. This was after leaving Marquette as an assistant, to be an assistant at Loyola Chicago.
Creighton made a change. Jimmy Walker from Bowling Green is their new HC. They tried for Ken Masuhr among others but he took the HC position at Miami FL.
Xavier’s HC left for Kansas. Dec 18 is their application deadline. I’ve heard of a few names interested. I should know some finalists soon.
But Marquette is now on the clock searching for a new Women’s Soccer HC.
For reference, RPI the past 4 seasons has been 126, 163, 103, 152.
Pelaez has been with Marquette 25 seasons, and he was the top assistant and recruiter on their good teams over the years.
Marquette was last good/competitive in 2016 and 2017. And they were consistently very good 2013 and prior for many years.
https://gomarquette.com/news/2023/12/16/womens-soccer-marquette-womens-soccer-coach-frank-pelaez-steps-down
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The next Head Coach for Marquette Women’s Soccer is Chris Allen.
Really big get for Marquette.
Most recently Chris was the Associate Head Coach and Recruiting Coordinator at Saint Louis University the past 8 seasons, where they’ve been a top 10 team nationally.
https://gomarquette.com/news/2024/1/18/chris-allen-named-marquette-head-womens-soccer-coach
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New Marquette Women’s Soccer Coach has arrived:
https://x.com/coachallenstl/status/1748506753447157852?s=46&t=TsCCkuE48YmnkWfoKqc_Ng
https://x.com/coachallenstl/status/1748885578236457409?s=46&t=TsCCkuE48YmnkWfoKqc_Ng
Chris is going to do good things at MU Rah Rah and he’ll build a strong positive culture. A+ person. Total package coach from recruiting, to technical skills to tactics to off field non soccer stuff.
Give him a little time and a few resources, and he’ll have the 4-2-3-1 high octane high pressure going soon.
Prior to college coaching, Chris worked for 9 years at the same high school that recently produced Courtney Ramey, Drew Hanlen (Pure Sweat), etc…so he knows his hoops too.
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Any insight as to why Frank Pelaez left so late into the off season?
Hope Chris Allen can get the program back to prominence again.
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Any insight as to why Frank Pelaez left so late into the off season?
Hope Chris Allen can get the program back to prominence again.
Short answer:
Officially: They simply decided to make a change, hired a search firm, did due diligence for the 30 plus days with P5 assistants, and Mid Major Head Coaches.
Unofficially: In part it came to their attention they had a chance to get Chris. (He’s turned down other opportunities)
I’ll elaborate when I get a chance shortly.
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The appeal of Chris Allen is his variety of skill sets. And some of his strengths were complimentary with Katie Shields’ strengths. This helped both add their individual depth as coaches.
He’ll build a unique unfailingly positive culture on and off of the field. High level recruiter, no stone unturned. Set piece specialist. Tactics, player development. A tireless worker, outside of the box thinker, who also makes the process fun.
He was essentially a Co-Head Coach at a top 10 program that didn’t play in a top 10 league. That isn’t easy to do.
Among his best skill sets are taking his personality and temperament, and connecting with a wide variety of people.
Give him a little time and enough resources to be competitive at a high level (he’s pretty low maintenance) and he’ll get it going within a few years.
No guarantees but it’s encouraging.
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Marquette Women’s Soccer Head Coach Frank Pelaez is expected to be named the next Women’s Soccer Head Coach at Emporia State University. Pelaez was a 19 year assistant at Marquette, and later, a 4 year head coach. Good luck to Frank.
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*Former
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*Former
Yes, former Marquette Women’s Soccer Head Coach. I accidentally omitted the word former.
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Yes, former Marquette Women’s Soccer Head Coach. I accidentally omitted the word former.
A lender from St. Louis sold me a predatory sub prime mortgage in 2008. Disgusting city
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Seriously?