https://twitter.com/espnrittenberg/status/1681667479414755333?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
While people wring their hands over college kids getting paid to play, maybe we should focus on how college institutions have failed its student-athletes immeasurably through the decades with Northwestern being the latest example.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 19, 2023, 12:06:23 PM
https://twitter.com/espnrittenberg/status/1681667479414755333?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
While people wring their hands over college kids getting paid to play, maybe we should focus on how college institutions have failed its student-athletes immeasurably through the decades with Northwestern being the latest example.
I mentioned last week that I was surprised that nothing was hitting Jim Phillips on this considering that he was the AD of this program for the vast majority of the Fitz years. That's starting to change. I wonder what the ACC schools are thinking at this moment about him as the leader of their conference?
The irony of course is that Fitzgerald was one of the louder voices in moaning and complaining about the "new era" of college football.
Quote from: RJax55 on July 19, 2023, 12:43:24 PM
I mentioned last week that I was surprised that nothing was hitting Jim Phillips on this considering that he was the AD of this program for the vast majority of the Fitz years. That's starting to change. I would what the ACC schools are thinking at this moment about him as the leader of their conference?
The irony of course is that Fitzgerald was one of the louder voices in moaning and complaining about the "new era" of college football.
And Phillips is part of the cabal of insiders, so any chance his tenure is being investigated by any of the national folks that cover the sport is nil.
These stories happen because access is more important
From a couple of weeks ago...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/dan-wolken/2023/07/11/northwestern-pat-fitzgerald-saga-shows-college-sports-needs-union/70400769007/
"College sports are big business, and there is no reasonable way to manage them in this environment without sharing the wealth and the responsibility with their business partners: the athletes themselves.
Many coaches like Fitzgerald are fearful of that future, worried about what greater agency for college athletes would mean for their own livelihoods or how the competitive landscape might shift to their disadvantage.
In reality, though, the past 72 hours at Northwestern is proof that unionization would be to the coaches' benefit, too. A number of Fitzgerald's colleagues right now are bemoaning the way society has changed and quietly calling this dismissal unfair. They should be looking at it a different way: If it can happen to one of the most well-respected members of the profession, it can happen to them, too.
A world in which players' unions run college football locker rooms and serve as a clearinghouse for all a young person's grievances may not sound appealing to many coaches, athletics directors and school presidents. But it is surely better than trying to navigate the unsustainable tension that exists when a coach must cast himself as the personnel manager of a 100-person team, an X-and-O genius, a father figure, a moral authority, a community leader and an omnipotent overlord of his empire all at the same time."
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 19, 2023, 01:00:52 PM
These stories happen because access is more important
Exactly. That is why it was the school paper that broke the story.
Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2023, 01:49:53 PM
Exactly. That is why it was the school paper that broke the story.
Student paper at Stanford just cost their president his job
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/stanford-university-president-steps-down-over-discovery-of-manipulation-of-alzheimers-research-data/
I gotta imagine most if not all athletic departments are running around frantically right now.
It's not right but I Gotta imagine hazing is pretty common in athletic departments, and now more people will feel comfortable speaking out and the attorneys are gonna go digging for a payday.
Players today talked about a culture of abuse and racism under Fitz.
But he'll be fine. It's not as if he did anything as heinous as protest peacefully by kneeling during the national anthem.
Quote from: MU82 on July 19, 2023, 05:03:29 PM
Players today talked about a culture of abuse and racism under Fitz.
But he'll be fine. It's not as if he did anything as heinous as protest peacefully by kneeling during the national anthem.
He'll get the rehab treatment in the NFL. That's a lock
He is a molder of fine, young men.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 19, 2023, 02:05:38 PM
Student paper at Stanford just cost their president his job
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/stanford-university-president-steps-down-over-discovery-of-manipulation-of-alzheimers-research-data/
Too bad these fine young journalists wont have a job when they graduate due to AI
never understood the hazing thing-when i see broom sticks, baseball bats and duct tape coming out, i'll pass on being one of the cool guys on the team
In the crossfire
ACC's Jim Phillips says he never condoned hazing at Northwestern
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38044079/acc-jim-phillips-says-never-condoned-hazing-northwestern
Atlantic Coast Conference commissioner Jim Phillips says he never "condoned or tolerated inappropriate conduct" against athletes as Northwestern's athletic director in the wake of allegations of hazing at that school, which have led to at least three lawsuits and the firing of football coach Pat Fitzgerald.
Phillips has been named as a defendant for two of the lawsuits along with other university leaders in their oversight roles. The first complaint came Wednesday from a former football player identified as "John Doe 2," followed by another by "John Doe 3" on Thursday.
"This has been a difficult time for the Northwestern University community, a place that my entire family called home," Phillips said in a statement Thursday. "Over my 30-year career in intercollegiate athletics, my highest priority has always been the health and safety of all student-athletes.
Phillips says he'll "vigorously defend" himself. I wonder how many hazing victims wanted to vigorously defend themselves?
Unless there's some kind of email or text trail, though, it will be pretty difficult to prove he was complicit.
Why does Phillips have to know what went on to be held responsible?
Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2023, 08:26:55 AM
Phillips says he'll "vigorously defend" himself. I wonder how many hazing victims wanted to vigorously defend themselves?
Unless there's some kind of email or text trail, though, it will be pretty difficult to prove he was complicit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say that Fitzgerald did not know but fired him because he should have known? So if this is the standard, how does Phillips defend himself?
Side note, if the standard is you should have known, why didn't Northwestern fire all the assistant Football coaches? Why do they all get to stay?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on July 21, 2023, 09:14:06 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say that Fitzgerald did not know but fired him because he should have known? So if this is the standard, how does Phillips defend himself?
Side note, if the standard is you should have known, why didn't Northwestern fire all the assistant Football coaches? Why do they all get to stay?
Your second paragraph contains two legit questions that have been asked in earlier posts of this thread. As for the rest ...
I don't believe an AD has the same day-to-day, hour-to-hour contact with the athletes in a program that the head coach does. ADs are largely fundraisers with lots of hats in the air and can't possibly have their finger on the pulse of each program. A head coach, however, is intimately involved in every facet of his program.
But it's just my opinion that proving the AD complicit in this situation would be difficult. I don't know what the outcome of a trial would be. Do you?
Interesting exchange ...
https://twitter.com/wesbury/status/1682389981434716162?s=20
I've been a Northwestern Football Season ticket hold for 28 years. Ticket holders earn "purple points" for allocation of parking, bowl tickets, etc. I'm #337 out of 28,000. After reading about what went down with @NUFBFamily and the firing of Patrick Fitzgerald as head coach, I will not be renewing my season tickets anymore. I wish I could claw some money back. They had plans for a new stadium...I doubt it will ever happen. In fact, I seriously doubt they will have a football team five years from now. So sad. But, I'm done.
Replies ...
@jeffgberg
That's what they said after Sandusky at Penn State. They will clean house and push the reset button. College football has too many millions flowing and with the transfer portal, teams can be rebuilt quickly.
@wesbury
NU is not Penn State. The NU President wants more bureaucrats overseeing football...not the "Dept of winning" it's the "Department of oversight."
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on July 21, 2023, 11:33:59 AM
Interesting exchange ...
https://twitter.com/wesbury/status/1682389981434716162?s=20
In fact, I seriously doubt they will have a football team five years from now. So sad. But, I'm done.
Absolutely NO chance of this happening. Without football, Northwestern forfeits the right to be in the BIG. Without the BIG, the loss in television revenue alone would kill Northwestern athletics.
It's more likely that Marquette will reinstate football than Northwestern killing football in the next five years. Not so long as the BIG is at stake!
Quote from: dgies9156 on July 21, 2023, 01:35:50 PM
Absolutely NO chance of this happening. Without football, Northwestern forfeits the right to be in the BIG. Without the BIG, the loss in television revenue alone would kill Northwestern athletics.
It's more likely that Marquette will reinstate football than Northwestern killing football in the next five years. Not so long as the BIG is at stake!
The idea they quit football is a typical Elon Musk run Twitter take with no bearing in reality
Football being played at Northwestern. Doomed.
Quote from: MU82 on July 19, 2023, 05:03:29 PM
Players today talked about a culture of abuse and racism under Fitz.
But he'll be fine. It's not as if he did anything as heinous as protest peacefully by kneeling during the national anthem.
Who exactly lost a job while under contract for kneeling? Who was sued for kneeling?
The NFL has proven it will pay guys millions who commit crimes if they can play.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 21, 2023, 02:28:13 PM
Who exactly lost a job while under contract for kneeling? Who was sued for kneeling?
The NFL has proven it will pay guys millions who commit crimes if they can play.
😂
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 21, 2023, 02:28:13 PM
Who exactly lost a job while under contract for kneeling? Who was sued for kneeling?
The NFL has proven it will pay guys millions who commit crimes if they can play.
The "while under contract" of course isn't really the point.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 21, 2023, 02:28:13 PM
Who exactly lost a job while under contract for kneeling? Who was sued for kneeling?
The NFL has proven it will pay guys millions who commit crimes if they can play.
So it's your assertion that even if Kaepernick had been a good "boy," he wouldn't have received a contract offer from any team in 2017?
The NFL also has proven it will let white, male billionaires continue to be owners no matter how they act.
Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2023, 03:29:20 PM
The NFL also has proven it will let white, male billionaires continue to be owners no matter how they act.
Correct ... See Jim Irsay
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/03/26/exclusive-irsay-arrest-reports-tell-cash-pills-erratic-driving/6937551/
Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2023, 03:29:20 PM
The NFL also has proven it will let white, male billionaires continue to be owners no matter how they act.
Donald Snyder will be happy to know this.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 21, 2023, 04:39:53 PM
Donald Snyder will be happy to know this.
The rule he broke? Threatening to spill the beans about his fellow owners.
Bad situation but it's gotten a bit silly with the calling for Gragg's head even though he's only been there for a year.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 21, 2023, 04:39:53 PM
Donald Snyder will be happy to know this.
So close ;D
Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2023, 03:29:20 PM
So it's your assertion that even if Kaepernick had been a good "boy," he wouldn't have received a contract offer from any team in 2017?
The NFL also has proven it will let white, male billionaires continue to be owners no matter how they act.
Lot's of players who kneeled got new contracts. Lots of players who didn't kneel got shown the door.
Stop reading headlines and watching The View to get facts.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 21, 2023, 07:12:35 PM
Lot's of players who kneeled got new contracts. Lots of players who didn't kneel got shown the door.
Stop reading headlines and watching The View to get facts.
😂
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 21, 2023, 07:12:35 PM
Lot's of players who kneeled got new contracts. Lots of players who didn't kneel got shown the door.
Stop reading headlines and watching The View to get facts.
Name the players who knelt that got new contracts.
I can name one: Eric Reid. Maybe there was another one or two. Maybe. If that's "lots," cool.
As I said ... good thing Fitz didn't kneel. He only turned a blind eye to abuse and racism in his program for years.
Wonder if sexist newspaper writers get new contracts after writing nasty pieces...
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 21, 2023, 07:32:53 PM
Wonder if sexist newspaper writers get new contracts after writing nasty pieces...
If they're white, probably
Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2023, 07:24:44 PM
Name the players who knelt that got new contracts.
I can name one: Eric Reid. Maybe there was another one or two. Maybe. If that's "lots," cool.
As I said ... good thing Fitz didn't kneel. He only turned a blind eye to abuse and racism in his program for years.
baker mayfeild
albert wilson
alvin kamara
kyler murray
adrian peterson
joran lucas
deshaun watson
etc etc...you realize hundreds of players knelt during that era, some still may be, but if your cry baby gripe was even close to holding any merit, the nfl would be down to about 3 teams and mostly caucasian, but NRA memberships would be mandatory of course
Northwestern is not done screwing things up ...
Northwestern said interim football coach David Braun has a master's degree. He doesn't, school says after questions from Tribune.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-david-braun-northwestern-university-football-20230721-6uiijbjmzfa37fgs5b3xo3kypi-story.html
Apparently that error followed him around throughout his career. Which could mean he lied about it at some point.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 22, 2023, 04:47:01 AM
baker mayfeild
albert wilson
alvin kamara
kyler murray
adrian peterson
joran lucas
deshaun watson
I sit corrected on number of NFL players who took a knee and then received contracts.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 22, 2023, 10:06:04 AM
Apparently that error followed him around throughout his career. Which could mean he lied about it at some point.
Certainly the guy has read his own bio over the years... must have thought, "hmm, that sounds good to me...". Bad news.
Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but it's been over a week since the hazing allegations and the level of Fitzgerald's involvement really blew up, and I don't believe I've yet seen the B10 Commissioner come out with any serious statement condemning this stuff.
I know it's not the same thing as Uncle Jerry Sanduskey at Penn State or that A-hole doctor at Michigan State, but the serious hazing, if true, is in the same neighborhood.
Anyone see a pattern developing here within the B10?
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on July 22, 2023, 03:50:59 PM
Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but it's been over a week since the hazing allegations and the level of Fitzgerald's involvement really blew up, and I don't believe I've yet seen the B10 Commissioner come out with any serious statement condemning this stuff.
I know it's not the same thing as Uncle Jerry Sanduskey at Penn State or that A-hole doctor at Michigan State, but the serious hazing, if true, is in the same neighborhood.
Anyone see a pattern developing here within the B10?
They haven't commented on it and probably can't because of the lawsuits. I'd guess they'll make a canned statement at media days condemning such things with some generic language.
Given where most Big Ten schools are located, the scrutiny they get from local media is limited. Joe Paterno thrived in it. Wisconsin coaches have fiefdoms. Kirk Ferentz only has a job because of how insulated he is. Mark Dantonio had so much bad stuff covered up, it's really gross.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 22, 2023, 03:57:11 PM
They haven't commented on it and probably can't because of the lawsuits. I'd guess they'll make a canned statement at media days condemning such things with some generic language.
Given where most Big Ten schools are located, the scrutiny they get from local media is limited. Joe Paterno thrived in it. Wisconsin coaches have fiefdoms. Kirk Ferentz only has a job because of how insulated he is. Mark Dantonio had so much bad stuff covered up, it's really gross.
The Big 10 is doomed.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on July 22, 2023, 04:55:43 PM
From your lips to God's ear.
Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear
Effen tone-deaf in Evanston.
From The Athletic:
At Northwestern's first football practice of fall camp open to the media, offensive coordinator Mike Bajakian was not scheduled to speak to reporters after practice, but he still made a very clear statement. Bajakian, in his fourth year in the role, wore a black long-sleeve T-shirt printed with "Cats Against The World" and former coach Pat Fitzgerald's No. 51. A few other Northwestern football staffers also wore the shirt Wednesday.
For the 2023 Northwestern Wildcats, a hazing scandal that resulted in the firing of the previously untouchable head coach and 13 former players filing lawsuits against the school is now a motivational storyline.
Interim head coach David Braun did not wear the shirt, but when asked about some of his staffers wearing the shirts and the message it could send, he said, "It certainly isn't my business to censor anyone's free speech."
"Coach Braun, he's been preaching that we should stick together, especially during a time like this," said wide receiver Bryce Kirtz. "So the shirts are really just a reminder to really allow us to stick together."
"We know the only people we need are the people in this facility," said linebacker Bryce Gallagher.
Northwestern athletic director Derrick Gragg called the shirts "inappropriate, offensive and tone deaf" in a statement released later Wednesday.
"I am extremely disappointed that a few members of our football program staff decided to wear 'Cats Against the World' t-shirts. Neither I nor the University was aware that they owned or would wear these shirts today," he said. "Let me be crystal clear: hazing has no place at Northwestern, and we are committed to do whatever is necessary to address hazing-related issues, including thoroughly investigating any incidents or allegations of hazing or any other misconduct."
Embrace the sexual assault of your teammates.
#motivation
A housecleaning is definitely in order. Shut down the program for Two years, fire every single coach, and re-start from scratch.
I would also look at removing them from the Big Twenty altogether.
Quote from: MU82 on August 10, 2023, 07:08:58 AM
Effen tone-deaf in Evanston.
College kids don't always make the best decisions. Really isn't much more to this (the T-shirts, not the hazing) than that.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 10, 2023, 10:11:49 AM
College kids don't always make the best decisions. Really isn't much more to this (the T-shirts, not the hazing) than that.
What about the coach wearing it?
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 10, 2023, 10:15:33 AM
What about the coach wearing it?
Not good, but not remotely surprising.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 10, 2023, 10:11:49 AM
College kids don't always make the best decisions. Really isn't much more to this (the T-shirts, not the hazing) than that.
The head coach was defended because he supposedly wasn't around for any of the hazing. The assistants were retained for continuity.
They are the adults in the room. And they obviously don't get it.
When the university president has to quickly condemn the actions, he probably needs to do more than only that.
Quote from: MU82 on August 10, 2023, 11:18:15 AM
When the university president has to quickly condemn the actions, he probably needs to do more than only that.
Like what, realisitically?
They aren't firing the coaching staff three weeks before their first game. They aren't suspending the program. They aren't canceling the season.
The T-shirts were stupid, but demanding heads roll or other drastic action over a poor clothing choice seems a bit extreme.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 10, 2023, 12:28:05 PM
Like what, realisitically?
They aren't firing the coaching staff three weeks before their first game. They aren't suspending the program. They aren't canceling the season.
The T-shirts were stupid, but demanding heads roll or other drastic action over a poor clothing choice seems a bit extreme.
Probably this.
"Guys, don't you see how this is the same dang problem that got is in this situation in the first place? Figure out what motivational tactics are gonna give us another black eye and try not to put those tactics in front of the reporters, eh?"
Quote from: Pakuni on August 10, 2023, 12:28:05 PM
Like what, realisitically?
They aren't firing the coaching staff three weeks before their first game. They aren't suspending the program. They aren't canceling the season.
The T-shirts were stupid, but demanding heads roll or other drastic action over a poor clothing choice seems a bit extreme.
One of the rare times I disagree with a post of yours; I think the t-shirts glaringly show the coaches' lack of control over the team and the culture.
The administration needs to decide their priorities. Decency/accountability or $$$$. I'm guessing we already know what side of the equation they will be on. And that is the tragedy of this situation.
Quote from: jficke13 on August 10, 2023, 12:36:15 PM
Probably this.
"Guys, don't you see how this is the same dang problem that got is in this situation in the first place? Figure out what motivational tactics are gonna give us another black eye and try not to put those tactics in front of the reporters, eh?"
All this is doing is continuing the narrative that Pat is the real victim here.
Quote from: Jockey on August 10, 2023, 12:42:03 PM
One of the rare times I disagree with a post of yours; I think the t-shirts glaringly show the coaches' lack of control over the team and the culture.
The administration needs to decide their priorities. Decency/accountability or $$$$. I'm guessing we already know what side of the equation they will be on. And that is the tragedy of this situation.
NW's interim (and presumptive future) coach Braun has barely been in Evanston 6 months and is brand new to the program/had no part in the years of hazing. Is it your assumption that he adopted the culture of sexual harrassment and has no issue still perpetuating it or its acceptance?
Quote from: JWags85 on August 10, 2023, 01:52:08 PM
NW's interim (and presumptive future) coach Braun has barely been in Evanston 6 months and is brand new to the program/had no part in the years of hazing. Is it your assumption that he adopted the culture of sexual harrassment and has no issue still perpetuating it or its acceptance?
Right. The tee shirt stuff is under his watch. He could have stopped it. And, yet...
Truthfully, all these guys are gone come late November.
Quote from: Jockey on August 10, 2023, 12:42:03 PM
One of the rare times I disagree with a post of yours; I think the t-shirts glaringly show the coaches' lack of control over the team and the culture.
The administration needs to decide their priorities. Decency/accountability or $$$$. I'm guessing we already know what side of the equation they will be on. And that is the tragedy of this situation.
I don't see it as a simple either/or proposition. I don't think it's a choice of "fire everyone and kill the football program" or "you only care about money." There are a lot more moving parts involved here that make such a choice pretty much impossible.
Like virtually every other P5 program, football pays the bills at NU. If you kill football and leave the Big 10, you might as well kill the athletic department or go D-III. That's a lot of lost scholarship opportunities and jobs for people who had nothing to do with this.
And then there are donor/alumni issues. What do you tell the Ryans, who just put up nearly $500 million for stadium upgrades? Are you going to cut them a refund?
Or the people who put up the $270 million for the new athletics (but mostly football) training center along Lake Michigan? Tell them tough break, now we've got a great place for intramurals? Better get some more lawyers.
I certainly understand why someone would suggest such a harsh outcome here, but I don't think it's necessary or realistic. I think it's better the university focus on things that actually can be done to change the culture rather than just punitive measures that really don't benefit anyone here.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 10, 2023, 10:30:57 AM
Not good, but not remotely surprising.
I think it deserves a little bit stronger than "not good".
Quote from: Pakuni on August 10, 2023, 02:10:17 PM
I don't see it as a simple either/or proposition. I don't think it's a choice of "fire everyone and kill the football program" or "you only care about money." There are a lot more moving parts involved here that make such a choice pretty much impossible.
Like virtually every other P5 program, football pays the bills at NU. If you kill football and leave the Big 10, you might as well kill the athletic department or go D-III. That's a lot of lost scholarship opportunities and jobs for people who had nothing to do with this.
And then there are donor/alumni issues. What do you tell the Ryans, who just put up nearly $500 million for stadium upgrades? Are you going to cut them a refund?
Or the people who put up the $270 million for the new athletics (but mostly football) training center along Lake Michigan? Tell them tough break, now we've got a great place for intramurals? Better get some more lawyers.
I certainly understand why someone would suggest such a harsh outcome here, but I don't think it's necessary or realistic. I think it's better the university focus on things that actually can be done to change the culture rather than just punitive measures that really don't benefit anyone here.
Thoughtful post that recognizes there are gray areas and that we should stay away from absolutes whenever possible. I'd add to your post that this situation, while terrible and rightfully needing severe punishments, does not rise to the level of the crimes committed at Penn State or Michigan State; athletic programs that were allowed to continue on and a great many innocent people to keep jobs and careers.
Quote from: JWags85 on August 10, 2023, 01:52:08 PM
NW's interim (and presumptive future) coach Braun has barely been in Evanston 6 months and is brand new to the program/had no part in the years of hazing. Is it your assumption that he adopted the culture of sexual harrassment and has no issue still perpetuating it or its acceptance?
If he allowed the t-shirts on Northwestern property, then he is part of the problem.
If he didn't know what the players were doing, he is part of the problem.
Using terms like sexual harassment or hazing makes it sound somewhat innocent. In fact, the acts committed would have led to prison sentences if they occurred in the public at large.
If the new coach is unable to develop a new culture, he should go.
I haven't followed all of the facts and details of this case, so I'm not qualified to say much. But there is one thing that I do know with virtual certainty and that is that the defense being offered by Fitzgerald that he knew NOTHING about this activity and that the first he heard of it was when the story broke, is complete BS. Big time college football coaches are some of the most anal people around, they are control freaks to the nth degree, they have their little " spies". There's nothing going on in those lockerroms that they don't know about. Not the least of which would be some linebacker dry humping some freshman running back in the trainers room.
Impossible that the coaches didn't know.
Quote from: Jockey on August 10, 2023, 05:32:45 PM
If he allowed the t-shirts on Northwestern property, then he is part of the problem.
If he didn't know what the players were doing, he is part of the problem.
Using terms like sexual harassment or hazing makes it sound somewhat innocent. In fact, the acts committed would have led to prison sentences if they occurred in the public at large.
If the new coach is unable to develop a new culture, he should go.
Fair enough. And FWIW, I don't think hazing or sexual harassment makes it seem innocent in any way shape or form. I just surmised there was more going on of a varied nature than outright sexual assault (though there was that too), so I thought it was more of a broad label.
Quote from: Jockey on August 10, 2023, 05:32:45 PM
In fact, the acts committed would have led to prison sentences if they occurred in the public at large.
The police have every ability to investigate and charge this case. Being on campus doesn't change anything.
And unlikely. Beyond all reasonable doubt is a really high standard to reach in these cases. Not justifying, just acknowledging the reality of how difficult it is to get convictions in these cases.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 10, 2023, 12:28:05 PM
Like what, realisitically?
They aren't firing the coaching staff three weeks before their first game. They aren't suspending the program. They aren't canceling the season.
The T-shirts were stupid, but demanding heads roll or other drastic action over a poor clothing choice seems a bit extreme.
Whether this activity warranted a suspension is a debate we can have, but it's not as if a coach has never been suspended before or during a season.
It was more than "a poor clothing choice," and I think you know it. It was poor judgment by the guy who was hired to restore decency - and good judgment - to a wayward program.
Frankly, I probably wouldn't have suspended him over this, but I'd have let him know he's on double-secret probation now.
Quote from: JWags85 on August 10, 2023, 01:52:08 PM
NW's interim (and presumptive future) coach Braun has barely been in Evanston 6 months and is brand new to the program/had no part in the years of hazing. Is it your assumption that he adopted the culture of sexual harrassment and has no issue still perpetuating it or its acceptance?
Can't speak for others, but my only "assumption" is that it was tone deaf and a very poor example for a supposed leader to set. Especially a leader at a university that's going through what Northwestern is right now.
Quote from: MU82 on August 10, 2023, 11:09:43 PM
It was more than "a poor clothing choice," and I think you know it. It was poor judgment by the guy who was hired to restore decency - and good judgment - to a wayward program.
Unbelievably, the coach claimed it was a 1st Amendment issue with the t-shirts.
Apparently he thinks everyone is too stupid to know what the right to free speech is about.
Quote from: Jockey on August 11, 2023, 12:00:47 AM
Unbelievably, the coach claimed it was a 1st Amendment issue with the t-shirts.
Apparently he thinks everyone is too stupid to know what the right to free speech is about.
Seems to be a lot of that going around lately.
No one will lose their job over this, but it's just going to reinforce that a complete house cleaning will need to take place after the season.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 11, 2023, 07:41:34 AM
No one will lose their job over this, but it's just going to reinforce that a complete house cleaning will need to take place after the season.
I think you are spot on. They will wait.
Too bad.
Quote from: Jockey on August 11, 2023, 12:00:47 AM
Unbelievably, the coach claimed it was a 1st Amendment issue with the t-shirts.
Apparently he thinks everyone is too stupid to know what the right to free speech is about.
It is truly amazing and sad people don't know and understand the 1st Amendment. Happens all too frequently. I wonder if he'd claim it's a 1st Amendment right to wear KKK t-shirts?