MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: wadesworld on June 30, 2023, 02:48:35 PM
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Spin off of Rico's 5 best baseball players, who do you have as GOATS in different sports?
Basketball: MJ
Football: Brady
Baseball: Shohei
Hockey: Wayneo
Golf: Tiger
Track & Field: Usain
Volleyball: Karch Kiraly
Soccer: Freddy Adu
Mountain Climbing: Alex Honnold
Swimming: Phelps
Tennis: Serena
Top 3 GOATS (relative dominance in their respective sport): Bolt, Phelps, Tiger
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Spin off of Rico's 5 best baseball players, who do you have as GOATS in different sports?
Basketball: MJ
Football: Brady
Baseball: Shohei
Hockey: Wayneo
Golf: Tiger
Track & Field: Usain
Volleyball: Karch Kiraly
Soccer: Freddy Adu
Mountain Climbing: Alex Honnold
Swimming: Phelps
Top 3 GOATS (relative dominance in their respective sport): Bolt, Phelps, Tiger
Basketball: Kareem
Football: Jim Brown
Baseball: Henry Aaron
Hockey: Gretzky
Golf: Hogan
Tennis: Serena
Can’t speak on the others
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Basketball: Kareem
Football: Jim Brown
Baseball: Henry Aaron
Hockey: Gretzky
Golf: Hogan
Tennis: Serena
Can’t speak on the others
You're right about tennis. I'll add that.
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Spin off of Rico's 5 best baseball players, who do you have as GOATS in different sports?
Basketball: MJ
Football: Brady
Baseball: Shohei
Hockey: Wayneo
Golf: Tiger
Track & Field: Usain
Volleyball: Karch Kiraly
Soccer: Freddy Adu
Mountain Climbing: Alex Honnold
Swimming: Phelps
Tennis: Serena
Top 3 GOATS (relative dominance in their respective sport): Bolt, Phelps, Tiger
Freddy Adu over Maradona? Or Ronaldo? Or Messi?
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Freddy Adu over Maradona? Or Ronaldo? Or Messi?
Pele?
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Basketball: Ners.
Maybe a couple other sports, too!
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Freddy Adu over Maradona? Or Ronaldo? Or Messi?
Obviously I was joking. I don’t know enough about soccer. If I had to make a serious pick it’d be Messi, but it’d be a very uninformed pick.
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Obviously I was joking. I don’t know enough about soccer. If I had to make a serious pick it’d be Messi, but it’d be a very uninformed pick.
Ah, got it. :)
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Obviously I was joking. I don’t know enough about soccer. If I had to make a serious pick it’d be Messi, but it’d be a very uninformed pick.
Roy Kent
He's here, he's there, he's every-f*cking-where.
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Would you consider Eliud Kipchoge Track & Field, or another category? He's been about as dominant as possible considering his sport.
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Would you consider Eliud Kipchoge Track & Field, or another category? He's been about as dominant as possible considering his sport.
Track and Field, I would throw Carl Lewis, Edwin Moses, Jess Owens, and Jim Thorpe into the conversation
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Cornhole: tsmith34
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I lived in college with a track athlete and he worshipped Michael Johnson, so I’ll say him
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Cornhole: tsmith34
Those guys are ripped
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I see the non-human animal kingdom has been disregarded once again. Keep in mind what any 🐆 would do to Usain Bolt? A toddler would have a better chance of guarding Giannis. :)
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I see the non-human animal kingdom has been been disregarded once again. Keep in mind what any 🐆 would do to Usain Bolt? A toddler would have a better chance of guarding Giannis. :)
Fair point. Why do we not let so called animals vote in this country? I placed my superbowl bet on which food dish the dog went to first the part two years, and won. Equality for all is the next chapter. We need to include animals and plants, pronto
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Fair point. Why do we not let so called animals vote in this country? I placed my superbowl bet on which food dish the dog went to first the part two years, and won. Equality for all is the next chapter. We need to include animals and plants, pronto
My old Dalmatian would annihilate Bolt in the 100m and 200m. :)
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Spin off of Rico's 5 best baseball players, who do you have as GOATS in different sports?
Basketball: MJ
Football: Brady
Baseball: Shohei
Hockey: Wayneo
Golf: Tiger
Track & Field: Usain
Volleyball: Karch Kiraly
Soccer: Freddy Adu
Mountain Climbing: Alex Honnold
Swimming: Phelps
Tennis: Serena
Top 3 GOATS (relative dominance in their respective sport): Bolt, Phelps, Tiger
Interesting that those are your top 3. Two of them, I wouldn't even have as the GOAT in their sport.
I'd put Pavlo Nurmi at the top for Track/Field. I'd also put Carl Lewis ahead of Bolt, but they'd be close (Go with Lewis because of his additional dominance in the long jump).
In Golf, hard to argue Tiger ahead of Nicklaus.
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I see the non-human animal kingdom has been disregarded once again.
They run the distance of 11/8 miles at Belmont Park at least 5 or 6 times per week. 50 years ago Secretariat ran 11/8 miles at Belmont in 1:45.40 . The record still stands. Of course Secretariat's 1 1/2 mile record also still stands but they only run that distance a few times per year. And of course he has run the fastest time ever in all three triple crown races.
But its that 11/8 track record at Belmont that really blows my mind.
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Interesting that those are your top 3. Two of them, I wouldn't even have as the GOAT in their sport.
I'd put Pavlo Nurmi at the top for Track/Field. I'd also put Carl Lewis ahead of Bolt, but they'd be close (Go with Lewis because of his additional dominance in the long jump).
In Golf, hard to argue Tiger ahead of Nicklaus.
My argument for Tiger would be, Tiger chased perfection and damn near achieved it. Has every shot. Nicklaus didn’t exclusively play left-to-right but didn’t change much through the years (of course, he didn’t have to). Tiger was an engineer and artist. His competition was much stronger and deeper, too.
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They run the distance of 11/8 miles at Belmont Park at least 5 or 6 times per week. 50 years ago Secretariat ran 11/8 miles at Belmont in 1:45.40 . The record still stands. Of course Secretariat's 1 1/2 mile record also still stands but they only run that distance a few times per year. And of course he has run the fastest time ever in all three triple crown races.
But its that 11/8 track record at Belmont that really blows my mind.
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Outstanding point. Secretariat was phenomenal.
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Outstanding point. Secretariat was phenomenal.
Like a tremendous machine
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Let's not forget how athletic actual goats are? I could watch ibexes zoom down vertical cliffs all day. And they can do that as babies. Keep in mind if any human or other animal attempted that the result would be immediate darkness. And we're impressed with rock climbing humans? Please. We should be far, far, more respectful of the entire animal kingdom. We're just not that special and are responsible for way too many probs.
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My argument for Tiger would be, Tiger chased perfection and damn near achieved it. Has every shot. Nicklaus didn’t exclusively play left-to-right but didn’t change much through the years (of course, he didn’t have to). Tiger was an engineer and artist. His competition was much stronger and deeper, too.
These are fun discussions. Great for the dog days of summer.
I find it interesting if someone picks Tom Brady and Tiger Woods. Tom is the most accomplished football player, Jack is the most accomplished golfer. Tiger has good arguments for GOAT, except for winning the majors, and most people would not call Tom the best QB of his own generation, much less all time player. So does winning matta or no matta?
My vote is Tom and Jack.
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I probably shouldn’t have made picks on track and field (and others). Like soccer, I don’t follow it closely enough. Usain is just the athlete that got me interested in anything T&F, and he made it look so easy.
You could cut Tom’s career into first half and second half and he’d have 2 HOF careers. He always had great defenses and Bellichick, but some of the numbers he was putting up with the receivers he had are absurd.
I’d stick with Tiger as the GOAT. Injuries hurt his chance to pass Jack, but he’s the most dominant golfer.
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Wasn't Jackie Joyner Kersee up there in human track & field?
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I would think most would consider Bo Jackson the best overall human athlete.
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I probably shouldn’t have made picks on track and field (and others). Like soccer, I don’t follow it closely enough. Usain is just the athlete that got me interested in anything T&F, and he made it look so easy.
You could cut Tom’s career into first half and second half and he’d have 2 HOF careers. He always had great defenses and Bellichick, but some of the numbers he was putting up with the receivers he had are absurd.
I’d stick with Tiger as the GOAT. Injuries hurt his chance to pass Jack, but he’s the most dominant golfer.
It's good that you did. Gets the ball rolling for some fun, offseason discussion.
I find it interesting if someone picks Tom Brady and Tiger Woods. Tom is the most accomplished football player, Jack is the most accomplished golfer. Tiger has good arguments for GOAT, except for winning the majors, and most people would not call Tom the best QB of his own generation, much less all time player. So does winning matta or no matta?
I'm realizing that I give Nicklaus the nod because of his accomplishments. But I wouldn't give Brady the nod. So maybe not treating everything equally. Nah, I'm going to double down and rationalize it as Football is a team sport, and Brady wasn't even the best QB of his generation.
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I probably shouldn’t have made picks on track and field (and others). Like soccer, I don’t follow it closely enough. Usain is just the athlete that got me interested in anything T&F, and he made it look so easy.
You could cut Tom’s career into first half and second half and he’d have 2 HOF careers. He always had great defenses and Bellichick, but some of the numbers he was putting up with the receivers he had are absurd.
I’d stick with Tiger as the GOAT. Injuries hurt his chance to pass Jack, but he’s the most dominant golfer.
Agree on Tom. but it is interesting because you can make a legit argument he was never the best QB in the NFL at any point in his career.
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I would think most would consider Bo Jackson the best overall human athlete.
I agree with this.
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These are fun discussions. Great for the dog days of summer.
I find it interesting if someone picks Tom Brady and Tiger Woods. Tom is the most accomplished football player, Jack is the most accomplished golfer. Tiger has good arguments for GOAT, except for winning the majors, and most people would not call Tom the best QB of his own generation, much less all time player. So does winning matta or no matta?
My vote is Tom and Jack.
Most people would not call Tom Brady the best quarterback of his own generation???
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Wasn't Jackie Joyner Kersee up there in human track & field?
She still has the top 6 performances ever in the Women's heptathlon, with the closest to it being 200 points away.
2nd all time long jump record.
Recently honored as a top 15 basketball players in UCLA history by the school.
High up on all time list for 100 and 200 in hurdles too.
6 Olympic medals, 3 gold. 4 WC gold..4 GW games gold..1 Pan Am gold.
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Most people would not call Tom Brady the best quarterback of his own generation???
That was poorly written. I meant to say that most people would say he was never the best QB in the league in any given year.
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I think the most difficult question is always the era comparison. There are arguments made for players after Babe Ruth in baseball, for instance. Shohei or Bonds or whomever else. But it's amazing that Babe Ruth broke the home run record at the age of 26, in just his eighth season. It was home run #139 that unquestionably broke Roger Conner's record, and Ruth hit more than 5 times that total by the time he was done.
Would he hold up to current pitching or succeed against modern athletes and technology? Who knows, but in terms of the gap between him and everyone who came before him, there was no comparison.
Competitors like Ruth, Secretariat, Gretzky, and others that just redefined what was possible seem to shine above the rest. I love Jordan, he's always been my idea of a GOAT, but I'm not sure I'd put even him on that level.
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Good post Brew.
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I think the most difficult question is always the era comparison. There are arguments made for players after Babe Ruth in baseball, for instance. Shohei or Bonds or whomever else. But it's amazing that Babe Ruth broke the home run record at the age of 26, in just his eighth season. It was home run #139 that unquestionably broke Roger Conner's record, and Ruth hit more than 5 times that total by the time he was done.
Would he hold up to current pitching or succeed against modern athletes and technology? Who knows, but in terms of the gap between him and everyone who came before him, there was no comparison.
Competitors like Ruth, Secretariat, Gretzky, and others that just redefined what was possible seem to shine above the rest. I love Jordan, he's always been my idea of a GOAT, but I'm not sure I'd put even him on that level.
I say Kareem for hoops because of how dominant he was on each level
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That was poorly written. I meant to say that most people would say he was never the best QB in the league in any given year.
Yeah I never realized he only won 3 MVPs. Not a lot considering…
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Men's Cycling - Eddy Merykx (The Canibal)
Women's Cycling = Jeannie Longo
Men's Tennis = Rod Laver/Djokovic (tie, but Novak should move past him soon)
Women's tennis = Serena
Men's Athletics = Ashton Eaton
Women's Athletics = Jackie Joiner Kersey
Men's Marathon = Kipchoge
Women's Maraton = Paula Radcliffe
Men's Swimming = Michael Phelps
Women's Swimmer = Katie Ledecky
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How about an oddball category for you?
High School GOAT (any sport) = Lukas Verzbicas, Carl Sandberg High School, Orland Park IL
High school Cross Country has/had two national championships, Foot Locker and the Nike Invitational National Championship. He is the only person to win BOTH
He ran a sub-four-minute mile
Holds the national high school record in the 2-mile at 8:29
AND ...
Broke the Illinois state record in the 800-meter swim (not in a high school meet, so it is not official)
AND ...
He was offered a professional cycling contract in Europe before graduating high school.
AND...
Won the ITU World Junior Championship in the Triathlon while still in high school full-time.
He was widely considered world-class in three sports (track, swimming, and cycling) and was on his way to doing something special in the triathlon. However, he was hit by a car during a training ride in July 2012, and after spending weeks in the hospital, he suffered from partial paralysis.
He recovered enough to compete again but never regained the form or promise he showed before the accident.
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How about an oddball category for you?
High School GOAT (any sport) = Lukas Verzbicas, Carl Sandberg High School, Orland Park IL
High school Cross Country has/had two national championships, Foot Locker and the Nike Invitational National Championship. He is the only person to win BOTH
He ran a sub-four-minute mile
Holds the national high school record in the 2-mile at 8:29
AND ...
Broke the Illinois state record in the 800-meter swim (not in a high school meet, so it is not official)
AND ...
He was offered a professional cycling contract in Europe before graduating high school.
AND...
Won the ITU World Junior Championship in the Triathlon while still in high school full-time.
He was widely considered world-class in three sports (track, swimming, and cycling) and was on his way to doing something special in the triathlon. However, he was hit by a car during a training ride in July 2012, and after spending weeks in the hospital, he suffered from partial paralysis.
He recovered enough to compete again but never regained the form or promise he showed before the accident.
Sandburg sucks
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Ron Jeremy
Marilyn Chambers
hey?
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Ron Jeremy
Marilyn Chambers
hey?
Ron Jeremy is going to jail
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In the last 60 years, there are 3 instances of a player winning 5 (or more) PGA Tour starts in a row.
They belong to: Tiger Woods (7), Tiger Woods (6) and Tiger Woods (5).
Tiger is the only player since 1950 to win the same PGA Tour event four years in a row.
He’s done it twice (Buick Invitational 2005-08, Bay Hill 2000-03).
Tiger Woods has won 7 majors by 3 shots or more (most all-time).
From 2004-06, Tiger had 1,466 putts from 3 feet and in measured by ShotLink.
He missed three of them.
Tiger Woods is credited with 41 career European Tour wins, third-most all-time. He has never played full-time on that tour.
Tiger Woods is the only player currently under the age of 50 with 25 or more PGA Tour wins.
Woods won his 25th PGA Tour title more than 20 years ago (2001 at Bay Hill).
A few ridiculous Tiger stats from Justin Ray. Jack may have more majors, but he can’t touch Tiger’s dominance.
It’s not really even close.
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Heather Harmon is the Throat GOAT.
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Heather Harmon is the Throat GOAT.
That's Nancy Reagan.
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That's Nancy Reagan.
Nancy walked so Heather could kneel
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I think you could argue that Tom Brady was not always the best QB but he was always the best football player. Aaron Rodgers IMO is the greatest QB of all time but I want Tom Brady in a championship game.
Rodgers can make every throw, is brilliant and a great runner, from a technical standpoint, he's the best. Tom just kept winning.
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I think you could argue that Tom Brady was not always the best QB but he was always the best football player. Aaron Rodgers IMO is the greatest QB of all time but I want Tom Brady in a championship game.
Rodgers can make every throw, is brilliant and a great runner, from a technical standpoint, he's the best. Tom just kept winning.
With all due respect this is just silly. It's not about who's the most talented or who can make every throw. That's not how you measure who's the best at the QB position. It's more about who makes the fewest mistakes and is the most succressful under pressure. It's analogous to a guy having better stuff than Maddux. That doesn't mean that person is better than Maddux.
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With all due respect this is just silly. It's not about who's the most talented or who can make every throw. That's not how you measure who's the best at the QB position. It's more about who makes the fewest mistakes and is the most succressful under pressure. It's analogous to a guy having better stuff than Maddux. That doesn't mean that person is better than Maddux.
I actually agree with most of what you're saying. I qualified my assessment from "technical standpoint" and I get that there is a lot more that goes into it than just the technical part.
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I actually agree with most of what you're saying. I qualified my assessment from "technical standpoint" and I get that there is a lot more that goes into it than just the technical part.
Brady’s ability to process information faster than other QBs was a strength and is an important part of being a QB.
While we can’t compare his arm to the great throwers, it’s an interesting comparison as to what is more important. Arm strength or decision making and decision making is more than just not forcing throws.
Also, Brady’s arm strength was more than good enough
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I actually agree with most of what you're saying. I qualified my assessment from "technical standpoint" and I get that there is a lot more that goes into it than just the technical part.
Fair enough Lens.
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Don't forget my friends that a Humpback Whale has a 50-55 foot vert. Again, that's 600+:inches. And keep in mind the human vert on land, let alone water. :)
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I think you could argue that Tom Brady was not always the best QB but he was always the best football player. Aaron Rodgers IMO is the greatest QB of all time but I want Tom Brady in a championship game.
I think a lot of people would argue that Brady was the best QB but might not be the best football player ever, giving that honor to the likes of Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Lawrence Taylor or others who were all-time greats and also were far superior athletes to Brady.
These things are always fun discussions.
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I think a lot of people would argue that Brady was the best QB but might not be the best football player ever, giving that honor to the likes of Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Lawrence Taylor or others who were all-time greats and also were far superior athletes to Brady.
These things are always fun discussions.
I agree with this. I'd agree with Mike Greenberg statement that Brady might not be the best QB ever but he is the most accomplished player ever.
At the end of the day, I'd take the title of most accomplished in any career I picked; sports, business, charity, etc.
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Just look at what Brady did the one year he had an entirely elite WR. He had elite TEs almost his whole career, but overall his WRs were nothing special.
The difference with Brady was he’d take what the defense gave him. He could’ve put up bigger numbers, but if the gameplan was to run the ball 33 times he’d hand it off 33 times. You think Rodgers would ever do that? No chance. Not even Mahomes would, who I don’t think is as worried about numbers as Rodgers is.
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To everyone on this thread. Thank you. This brings back great memories of being up late at MU with my buddies, and some beers, discussing "serious" topics like this. Great times that cement my love of MU and the people of MU.
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Just look at what Brady did the one year he had an entirely elite WR. He had elite TEs almost his whole career, but overall his WRs were nothing special.
The difference with Brady was he’d take what the defense gave him. He could’ve put up bigger numbers, but if the gameplan was to run the ball 33 times he’d hand it off 33 times. You think Rodgers would ever do that? No chance. Not even Mahomes would, who I don’t think is as worried about numbers as Rodgers is.
Spot on.
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Just look at what Brady did the one year he had an entirely elite WR. He had elite TEs almost his whole career, but overall his WRs were nothing special.
The difference with Brady was he’d take what the defense gave him. He could’ve put up bigger numbers, but if the gameplan was to run the ball 33 times he’d hand it off 33 times. You think Rodgers would ever do that? No chance. Not even Mahomes would, who I don’t think is as worried about numbers as Rodgers is.
Totally agree. I many ways Rodgers had everything it took to be the GOAT but his own ego kept him from reaching the highest heights.
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I agree with this. I'd agree with Mike Greenberg statement that Brady might not be the best QB ever but he is the most accomplished player ever.
Kind of like the Dan Marino v. Joe Montana debates back in the 80s. In the end however, I think the accomplishments win out. I don't hear Marino's name mentioned in these types of debates any longer.
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Kind of like the Dan Marino v. Joe Montana debates back in the 80s. In the end however, I think the accomplishments win out. I don't hear Marino's name mentioned in these types of debates any longer.
Which is kind of a shame? Marino was awesome
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Which is kind of a shame? Marino was awesome
He was, but I think him and Rodgers are going to go down similarly in history. Puts up great numbers with regular season accomplishments, but also a bunch of playoff losses when they were the higher seeded team. I think they lost twice in the AFC Championship Game at home, plus had a couple other home losses as well.
Rodgers had multiple MVPs and got a Super Bowl win however.
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Wasn't Jackie Joyner Kersee up there in human track & field?
As opposed to manatee track and field?
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Spin off of Rico's 5 best baseball players, who do you have as GOATS in different sports?
Basketball: MJ
Football: Brady
Baseball: Shohei
Hockey: Wayneo
Golf: Tiger
Track & Field: Usain
Volleyball: Karch Kiraly
Soccer: Freddy Adu
Mountain Climbing: Alex Honnold
Swimming: Phelps
Tennis: Serena
Top 3 GOATS (relative dominance in their respective sport): Bolt, Phelps, Tiger
Idk how you can say Tiger when he has never topped Nicklaus' major record.
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He was, but I think him and Rodgers are going to go down similarly in history. Puts up great numbers with regular season accomplishments, but also a bunch of playoff losses when they were the higher seeded team. I think they lost twice in the AFC Championship Game at home, plus had a couple other home losses as well.
Rodgers had multiple MVPs and got a Super Bowl win however.
I think Rodgers will rate higher easily because of the title and multiple MVPs.
The Fins lost in ‘86 to the Pats at home and ‘92 to a Bills team that was running on fumes and injured. He was terrible in that game, too.
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Idk how you can say Tiger when he has never topped Nicklaus' major record.
Deeper fields in the Tiger era
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My argument for Tiger would be, Tiger chased perfection and damn near achieved it. Has every shot. Nicklaus didn’t exclusively play left-to-right but didn’t change much through the years (of course, he didn’t have to). Tiger was an engineer and artist. His competition was much stronger and deeper, too.
Recency bias
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In the last 60 years, there are 3 instances of a player winning 5 (or more) PGA Tour starts in a row.
They belong to: Tiger Woods (7), Tiger Woods (6) and Tiger Woods (5).
Tiger is the only player since 1950 to win the same PGA Tour event four years in a row.
He’s done it twice (Buick Invitational 2005-08, Bay Hill 2000-03).
Tiger Woods has won 7 majors by 3 shots or more (most all-time).
From 2004-06, Tiger had 1,466 putts from 3 feet and in measured by ShotLink.
He missed three of them.
Tiger Woods is credited with 41 career European Tour wins, third-most all-time. He has never played full-time on that tour.
Tiger Woods is the only player currently under the age of 50 with 25 or more PGA Tour wins.
Woods won his 25th PGA Tour title more than 20 years ago (2001 at Bay Hill).
A few ridiculous Tiger stats from Justin Ray. Jack may have more majors, but he can’t touch Tiger’s dominance.
It’s not really even close.
That's all nice. But none of it matters as much as winning majors.
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Recency bias
Not really. The wave of international participation started as a trickle when Jack racked up his early majors. Gary Player and Tony Jacklin come to mind. Peter Thomson didn’t play the PGA and only played the US Open once.
By the end of Jack’s prime, the fields became much deeper as more international players began playing more on the tour and in all majors. But even then, it wasn’t as global as it was in the Tiger era.
Tiger’s advantages were neutralized by equipment changes as well. Jack’s greatest advantage was length and accuracy with the driver. Tiger had that but lost it when drivers became frying pans and the ball quit spinning. Today’s best ball strikers are at a disadvantage as well.
Also, Tiger won 3 US Junior Amateurs and 3 Amateurs. You’ll never see that again
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That's all nice. But none of it matters as much as winning majors.
If that is how you're measuring the GOAT, that's fine, but I think plenty here disagree with that measurement being the only one.
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He was, but I think him and Rodgers are going to go down similarly in history. Puts up great numbers with regular season accomplishments, but also a bunch of playoff losses when they were the higher seeded team. I think they lost twice in the AFC Championship Game at home, plus had a couple other home losses as well.
Rodgers had multiple MVPs and got a Super Bowl win however.
Marino was a terrible holder too. Most important kick and couldn’t turn the laces out. Cost them a Super Bowl and got their mascot stolen.
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If that is how you're measuring the GOAT, that's fine, but I think plenty here disagree with that measurement being the only one.
I vote for Jack and Tom Brady for the same reasons.
If I picked Tiger, then I'd go with Payton in the NFL.
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If that is how you're measuring the GOAT, that's fine, but I think plenty here disagree with that measurement being the only one.
How do you measure yourself against other golfers?
By height.
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I vote for Jack and Tom Brady for the same reasons.
If I picked Tiger, then I'd go with Payton in the NFL.
Exactly. Winning the most at the highest level is the only metric that matters.
It is why MJ gets the nod over LeBron.
I am a huge Tiger fan, and I love what he brought to the game. He had a chance to be the GOAT, and maybe still does (?), but as of right now, he is not.
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Exactly. Winning the most at the highest level is the only metric that matters.
It is why MJ gets the nod over LeBron.
Then I put Bill Russell above MJ and Otto Graham ahead of Tom Brady.
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How do you measure yourself against other golfers?
By height.
this isn't the dad joke thread
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There is never a wrong spot for a Caddyshack reference.
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Then I put Bill Russell above MJ and Otto Graham ahead of Tom Brady.
Zing!
(But he did say winning was 'the highest', not 'the only' metric.)
Will Purdue > Charles Barkley?
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Zing!
(But he did say winning was 'the highest', not 'the only' metric.)
Will Purdue > Charles Barkley?
Unlike that comparison, an argument can be made for Graham and Russell. Russell was the best player at all levels in his life. He dominated in college, too. Graham still
holds the record for most yards averaged per attempt from an era where passing wasn’t exactly an art form
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Exactly. Winning the most at the highest level is the only metric that matters.
It is why MJ gets the nod over LeBron.
I am a huge Tiger fan, and I love what he brought to the game. He had a chance to be the GOAT, and maybe still does (?), but as of right now, he is not.
By your metric the best NFL players of all time:
Tom Brady
Fuzzy Thurston
Forrest Gregg
Herb Adderly
And then about 10 Green Bay Packers.
Great criteria. ;)
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Exactly. Winning the most at the highest level is the only metric that matters.
It is why MJ gets the nod over LeBron.
I am a huge Tiger fan, and I love what he brought to the game. He had a chance to be the GOAT, and maybe still does (?), but as of right now, he is not.
Then there are a minimum of 9 basketball players who were better than MJ, and 26 who are better than LBJ.
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this isn't the dad joke thread
Ban dis guy^^^^
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You obviously have to be one of the best of your era to be considered a GOAT. Standard metrics can apply for that qualifying level.
But to be a GOAT, you have to win.
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You obviously have to be one of the best of your era to be considered a GOAT. Standard metrics can apply for that qualifying level.
But to be a GOAT, you have to win.
Tiger Woods won 13 of the 35 majors played between the 1999 PGA and the 2008 US Open. Nicklaus never came close to a stretch like that.
Tiger won about one in every six majors he has entered. Jack is one of every nine.
Just simply counting things and saying "yep, he's the best" without putting things in context is pretty simplistic.
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As opposed to manatee track and field?
I make the proper distinction between human speed/vert/agility to various animals that are superior athletes and way, way, way, faster. :)
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I make the proper distinction between human speed/vert/agility to various animals that are superior athletes and way, way, way, faster. :)
Humans are better at sports than animals. Animals aren't smart enough to follow the rules and would be DQed
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Humans are better at sports than animals. Animals aren't smart enough to follow the rules and would be DQed
But the thing is every dog has that dog in them.
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I make the proper distinction between human speed/vert/agility to various animals that are superior athletes and way, way, way, faster. :)
We're better distance runners, and would excel in any sport that requires a ball.
reconsider the animal worship!
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Tiger Woods won 13 of the 35 majors played between the 1999 PGA and the 2008 US Open. Nicklaus never came close to a stretch like that.
Tiger won about one in every six majors he has entered. Jack is one of every nine.
Just simply counting things and saying "yep, he's the best" without putting things in context is pretty simplistic.
All fair points. If the argument was, who had a better 10 year stretch, Tiger would definitely win.
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We're better distance runners, and would excel in any sport that requires a ball.
reconsider the animal worship!
We're not "better distance runners" and by a longshot. Do you have any idea what Pronghorn would run a marathon in? And why does it have to be on a human circular track? Pronghorns can run about 47mph for several hours. Case closed.
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We're not "better distance runners" and by a longshot. Do you have any idea what Pronghorn would run a marathon in? And why does it have to be on a human circular track? Pronghorns can run about 47mph for several hours. Case closed.
They wouldn’t stick to the course. Because they are dumb.
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They wouldn’t stick to the course. Because they are dumb.
They are not dumb. Stop attacking our tremendous members of the animal kingdom.
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They are not dumb. Stop attacking our tremendous members of the animal kingdom.
They are dumb if they cannot make a coherent argument on why they are not dumb.
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They are dumb if they cannot make a coherent argument on why they are not dumb.
Uhhh....no. This is beyond ridiculous and prejudicial. Do you really think Chimpanzees and other primates, elephants, whales, octopuses, dogs, cats, etc, are dumb? This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever read.
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Uhhh....no. This is beyond ridiculous and prejudicial. Do you really think Chimpanzees and other primates, elephants, whales, octopuses, dogs, cats, etc, are dumb? This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever read.
I’m sitting in my air conditioned house. They sit outside on hot days like this.
Therefore they are dumb.
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I’m sitting in my air conditioned house. They sit outside on hot days like this.
Therefore they are dumb.
What a fking inane argument. Our species is the absolute worst and btw the world is 71% water.
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What a fking inane argument. Our species is the absolute worst and btw the world is 71% water.
We evolved and can walk on land. They didn’t.
They are dumb.
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Uhhh....no. This is beyond ridiculous and prejudicial. Do you really think Chimpanzees and other primates, elephants, whales, octopuses, dogs, cats, etc, are dumb? This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever read.
Compared intellectually to a human? Yes. There's no counter argument. The only species on the planet smarter than humans are dolphins and mice.
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Compared intellectually to a human? Yes. There's no counter argument. The only species on the planet smarter than humans are dolphins and mice.
Smarter than humans? No. But these other species are not dumb at all. And you have indirectly disparaged most of our marine mammals, primates, elephants, octopuses, and a plethora of other species. Anyone who thinks 🐙 are dumb have no fking idea what they're talking about.
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We're not "better distance runners" and by a longshot. Do you have any idea what Pronghorn would run a marathon in? And why does it have to be on a human circular track? Pronghorns can run about 47mph for several hours. Case closed.
Can't outrun our bullets, now can they?
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Not really. The wave of international participation started as a trickle when Jack racked up his early majors. Gary Player and Tony Jacklin come to mind. Peter Thomson didn’t play the PGA and only played the US Open once.
By the end of Jack’s prime, the fields became much deeper as more international players began playing more on the tour and in all majors. But even then, it wasn’t as global as it was in the Tiger era.
Tiger’s advantages were neutralized by equipment changes as well. Jack’s greatest advantage was length and accuracy with the driver. Tiger had that but lost it when drivers became frying pans and the ball quit spinning. Today’s best ball strikers are at a disadvantage as well.
Also, Tiger won 3 US Junior Amateurs and 3 Amateurs. You’ll never see that again
Well if Tiger is the GOAT in golf, then Yogi Berra is the GOAT in baseball as the only player to play in 73 World Series games. That record I am safe to say will never be broken.
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Smarter than humans? No. But these other species are not dumb at all. And you have indirectly disparaged most of our marine mammals, primates, elephants, octopuses, and a plethora of other species. Anyone who thinks 🐙 are dumb have no fking idea what they're talking about.
Whoosh
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Uhhh....no. This is beyond ridiculous and prejudicial. Do you really think Chimpanzees and other primates, elephants, whales, octopuses, dogs, cats, etc, are dumb? This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever read.
compared to humans, yes
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Yeah, but the animals are smart enough to stay off of social media.
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Yeah, but the animals are smart enough to stay off of social media.
Are you sure?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4948650/Twitter-reveals-successful-animal-stars.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4948650/Twitter-reveals-successful-animal-stars.html)
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The obvious choice for baseball:
(https://newscdn2.weigelbroadcasting.com/6Lbej-1495578021-14776-blog-12305777_G.jpg)
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The obvious choice for baseball:
(https://newscdn2.weigelbroadcasting.com/6Lbej-1495578021-14776-blog-12305777_G.jpg)
I loved that GOAT.
<sox fan here>
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compared to humans, yes
We have no idea how to measure the intelligence of many of our tremendous animals. And "smart" is highly nuanced within the entire human race. Having different brain capacities than humans doesn't make other animals "dumb" by any stretch. That's an asinine contention, filled with incredible arrogance, and complete disrespect.
Were the Elephants near Chiang Mai Thailand stupid for climbing up the mountains before that massive tsunami hit? Were the humans smart for not following them uphill? Stop disparaging and mocking these phenomenal creatures. WTF makes us so special? Our rapacity and selfishness is quite frankly awful and disgusting.
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We have no idea how to measure the intelligence of many of our tremendous animals. And "smart" is highly nuanced within the entire human race. Having different brain capacities than humans doesn't make other animals "dumb" by any stretch. That's an asinine contention, filled with incredible arrogance, and complete disrespect.
Were the Elephants near Chiang Mai Thailand stupid for climbing up the mountains before that massive tsunami hit? Were the humans smart for not following them uphill? Stop disparaging and mocking these phenomenal creatures. WTF makes us so special? Our rapacity and selfishness is quite frankly awful and disgusting.
That was only 1 elephant from the stories found, so were the others too dumb to follow?
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We have no idea how to measure the intelligence of many of our tremendous animals. And "smart" is highly nuanced within the entire human race. Having different brain capacities than humans doesn't make other animals "dumb" by any stretch. That's an asinine contention, filled with incredible arrogance, and complete disrespect.
Were the Elephants near Chiang Mai Thailand stupid for climbing up the mountains before that massive tsunami hit? Were the humans smart for not following them uphill? Stop disparaging and mocking these phenomenal creatures. WTF makes us so special? Our rapacity and selfishness is quite frankly awful and disgusting.
So, do you only eat the dumb animals?
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So, do you only eat the dumb animals?
I've discussed this ad nauseum and explained that I'm not a vegetarian. Nevertheless lawdog we are unfairly attacking members of the animal kingdom here and it's not right.
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That was only 1 elephant from the stories found, so were the others too dumb to follow?
No. Not according to my contacts at two elephant sanctuaries there. There were a number of eyewitness accounts that many of them went uphill and sought higher ground.
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S-Billy, I have been privileged to spend some time with both Asian and African Elephants. They are highly intelligent and deserve our utmost respect.
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S-Billy, I have been privileged to spend some time with both Asian and African Elephants. They are highly intelligent and deserve our utmost respect.
They could probably recruit better than Shaka
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We're not "better distance runners" and by a longshot. Do you have any idea what Pronghorn would run a marathon in? And why does it have to be on a human circular track? Pronghorns can run about 47mph for several hours. Case closed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting
We're terrifying animals.
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We're talking the greatest athletes of all time and someone had to ask "What about animals? How do they compare?"
Air Bud is the only animal I've seen make a shot on a 10 foot hoop. So to answer the question, they phucking suck.
Good god how weird do you have to be to derail a thread about the best athletes in sports and ask why people are disrespecting the rhinoceros or whatever other animal might be stronger than a human?
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Air Bud is the only animal I've seen make a shot on a 10 foot hoop. So to answer the question, they phucking suck.
I will see your basketball-shooting dog and raise you a field-goal-kicking mule.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/50d753ace4b00e80afab9f20/1604705084022-Z8QPARBGSH78J16UR9I1/gus.png)
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S-Billy, I have been privileged to spend some time with both Asian and African Elephants. They are highly intelligent and deserve our utmost respect.
I am in favor of affirmative action for pachyderms at the Ivy League schools. Dolphin and chimpanzee legacy admissions are unfair.